Doesn't it make you happy to see people wanting to help other people?
"This is a service which is sorely needed," said Jankowski, who holds a doctorate in spiritual theology. "The number of people who need help is intensifying right now."
What service is Jankowski providing? That he claims to have a doctorate in "spiritual theology" is one clue. That he claims theological support from the Vatican and his Catholic archbishop is another.
Yeah, he's an exorcist. A professional expert at casting out imaginary demons.
The article goes on to claim that this is a growth industry. They're busy building a new Exorcism Center to treat the flood of people who need evil spirits dispelled.
I'm feeling a little sick myself — maybe I've caught a wee little ghostie.
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He sounds like a joke to me.
I think they're offering a course at Tennessee Tech.
He casts out imaginary demons, but imaginary demons may well be real mental diseases that need treatment...
..and the last thing these people need is to be told that the voices in their head are real, with a whole roomful of people chanting and praying at their bedside, feeding rather than starving their psychosis.
I guess exorcists create their own business.
Aw, don't be so harsh. I'd be interested in taking a course on this.
Mostly I just want to say, "I'm a demon hunter," when someone asks what I do for a living. Think of the great bumper stickers, "Exorcists do it over the bed... 2 feet over."
OEJ
I am not particularily happy about your choice of the title, PZ. You make it sound like it is another crazy idea us silly Poles have come up with, whereas it is just another crazy idea the Pope has:
"The Pope has ordered his bishops to set up exorcism squads to tackle the rise of Satanism.
Vatican chiefs are concerned at what they see as an increased interest in the occult.
They have introduced courses for priests to combat what they call the most extreme form of "Godlessness."
Each bishop is to be told to have in his diocese a number of priests trained to fight demonic possession. "
http://tinyurl.com/28kee3
"I'm a rogue demon hunter!"
"What's a rogue demon?"
Now that I think about it, how do we know that Catholics are not all demon-possessed? Hmmm . . . wouldn't it be the perfect cover, to create demon squads to deflect attention from one's own demonic possession? All you need, to "know" this is true, is a little faith. It makes perfect sense.
@Jared: I'll name that quote in one.
Wesley Wyndham-Price and Cordelia Chase in Angel, season 1, episode 10.
See? I'm a big nerd, too!
Where did he get this doctorate? Miskatonic University?
"Vatican chiefs are concerned at what they see as an increased interest in the occult"
Which they plan to combat by... promoting occult beliefs!
Crazy!
Jared, sadly that's exactly the exchange that ran through my mind when I saw the article this morning. Thank the FSM I no longer watch TV.
Sorry to hear you're feeling a little possessed today. Perhaps you could use a splash of "holy" water and a "power of Christ compels you" or two.
I wonder if his cell phone plays Tubular Bells whenever it rings?
Perhaps the exorcist just multiplies the imaginary voices by i.
The post-modern ones multiply by their penis.
Bob
I'd like to offer everyone my exorcism services. I guarantee that I will rid your house or other property of any spirits, ghosts, goblins, spooks, ghouls, incubi, succubi, UFOs, leprechauns, hobbits, Nessie, yeti, demons, poltergeists, headless horsemen, banshees...even Satan himself using a methodology proven in countless documentaries.
It will consist of setting up surveillance equipment throughout the entire property, because as we all know, haints never show up when the cameras are on.
As long as we have a Huckabee and a Bush, we will need an exorcist. Or maybe a Constitution.
Ahh, Exorcism. Gallons of green puke. Profanity. Heads turning around 360 degrees. How can anyone doubt tha? (well except the head turn thingie).
I blogged about this myself a little while a ago. What can I say, people are insane!
I recommend the german movie "Requiem"(2006) based on a real story from the 70ies. It tells the tragic story of young student from a religious family who is urged to "cure" her mental disease by exorcism.
Why, Poland, why?????
Do you really have to ridicule yourself in front of the rest of the world?
Jankowski does need an exorcism. We should call in Dogbert so he can incant, "Out. Out! You demons of stupidity!"
The ghost of P.T. Barnum is alive and well and walking the halls of the Vatican.
Exorcisms are not just Catholic. The fundie Xians are big into exorcisms too. There is already a major exorcism industry and exorcism centers in Arizona among other places.
It is a very common belief among Mormons and fundie Xians that people are often possessed by demons. They claim to be able to look into people's eyes and can tell whether they are being ridden by demons or not.
Oddly enough people they don't like or people including family they are having conflicts with invariably turn out to be demon possessed. It is an all purpose explanation.
Exorcising demons is something of a big business for the faith healer cults.
Did some memo go around that it was the Christian's week to embarrass themselves? First the Archbishop of Canterbury now the Vatican - what are the baptists going to come up with to top this I wonder?
In other news, pea soup futures are way up.
I take the absurdity of exorcism as read, but here is a new mathematical phenomenon far worthier of study. A number that intensifies rather than increases or grows. I would love to see the number three become even more three-like than it already is.
I wish they'd read what they have written. Just once.
And while I'm typing, if this is a doctor of spiritual theology, might I be allowed a glimmer of hope that there is therefore also a discipline called Material Theology? That I'd like to see, although I expect it would be short on substance, if you'll forgive the pun.
Lest anyone assume that exorcists are only present in the Catholic Church outside the U.S., the exorcist in the Diocese of Arlington, Virginia also doubles as the head of the anti-abortion, anti-research Catholic organization Human Life International.
If one puts exorcism and christian into a search engine, an improbable number of hits come up. The one above was the first one. The implicit claim that Roman Catholics aren't really Xian is a typical fundie touch. Catholics must be fake Xians and therefore their fake exorcisms don't work. OTOH with Real Xians(TM) you get real exorcisms.
It is too early in the morning to read more of this bughouse insane drivel. For Cthulhu's sake, it is the 21st century, at least where I live.
"...yoga devotees are also at risk"
Seriously? Rosemary Woodhouse's neighbors weren't really a witches coven, they were just an overly zealous yoga class.
And just where are all these demons going to go when they are moved out? Jesus cast one out of a man and it entered a pig, which ran away screaming. I'm concerned that all the new excorcisms will result in large numbers of demon refugees seeking hosts. Maybe people should be required to supply a farm animal.
Where did he get this doctorate? Miskatonic University?
Hmm... I may have to start sending nasty-grams to my alma mater.
I think when three becomes even more three-like, it becomes 27.
@Helblind
Check your sources.
Not everything that could be true is true.
Silly atheists, taking this all so literally. "Demons" are merely symbolic representations of aspects of ourselves and our lives we'd like to change, and "exorcism" is simply a ritualized tool which draws from our historical and cultural roots. It speaks to us in the language of myth and meaning. It celebrates community and commitment.
Please try not to trivialize such significant metaphors by breaking the spell and clumsily reifying such sophisticated abstractions. This gentleman is a professional with a doctorate in Spiritual Theology. You need to understand it all at a higher level.
If there was ever(another) reason to doubt the veracity of anything in the RCC this is it.
Money people have worked hard to give to this organization now goes to build this superstitious nonsense. It's almost criminal.
The thing I am most offend by is that atheism wasn't considered the "most extreme form of Godlessness."
I find this article, and this movement, extremely interesting. I think Ratzi realizes that this middle-ground of "moderate" religionism is the death knell of religion. You just can't hold a religion together if it gets too moderate, especially in the face of a strong secular society that doesn't feel the compulsion to go to church. As a result, he's reversing the last 50-or-so years of modernizing reform and going back to the ghosts and goblins of yore.
It's also great to make fun of this and think it's a joke. But what the church is doing is essentially recreating the Spanish Inquisition in miniature. Who do you think is going to end up getting exorcised? It's probably going to be children of religious families within religious communities who are turning away from God. They will be essentially tortured (since a key exorcism method is to make the body so uncomfortable that the demon wants to leave) until they agree to go to church and stop exposing themselves to evil influences like rock music and the internet (wtf -- rock music? rock music hasn't been demonic for at least 25 year!). It's comforting to think that we live in a secular society with secular laws and that torture for not going to church could never happen, but it can and it will.
I cannot say this surprises me in the least. Please keep in mind that the "liberal" and "modern" John Paul II preformed at least a couple of exorcisms while he was head of the church. It fits right into the history of the organization.
Sastra:
My sarcasm meter is in desperate need of recalibration. So, although I hope that was sarcasm, I can't be sure.
Anyway, It reminded me of this.
Sastra:
Yeah, right...
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/15/world/africa/15witches.html?_r=2&th&e…
Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons: freely ye received, freely give.
Mat 10:9 Get you no gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses;
Mat 10:10 no wallet for your journey, neither two coats, nor shoes, nor staff: for the laborer is worthy of his food.
Hmmm... There seems to be no shortage of sick or dead people either (don't know about the lepers). Perhaps the RC Church and the Xtian fundies could focus on these as well? They could start with the amputees! All for no charge, of course.
You know, I used to buy into all the angels and demons B.S. Now, I'm pretty certain that these things are manifestation of a troubled mind. If you are constantly being told that there are such things, you start to believe it after a while. The brain can create the illusions of the supernatural, if a person believes in it strongly enough. To them it is a very real phenomenon. This is probably why skeptics don't see ghosts, demons or angels because they're brains aren't generating them.
Sastra:
God bless you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZVVbGEOoCM
Money people have worked hard to give to this organization now goes to build this superstitious nonsense. It's almost criminal.
Money people gave to the Catholic Church is now being used for supersititon nonsense?
You are using logic in a way which with I am unfamiliar.
It's almost criminal as in a play on words, meaning it's a damn shame the money is being wasted in such a manner.
I'm dissapointed. Google shopping didn't find any exorcists near me. Just one guy, Bob Larson is smart enough to pay google to advertise for his exorcism services. It's a growing field. Like in the Graduate: "One word for you. One word: exorcisms"
It's almost criminal as in a play on words, meaning it's a damn shame the money is being wasted in such a manner.
Wait, when you say "play on words," do you mean sarcastic?
My brain hurts.
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, make the little girls talk out of their heads.
Mat 10:9 Thou art the one, the one they call the seventh son.
Sastra, you need to append your name with the OM when making comments like that. So that people will recognize your authority, of course.
Ahh, yes.
So, essentially, if you want to stop being a Catholic or divorce your husband you must be possessed by Satan. Why else would a Good Christian Wife™ ever want to leave her husband? Or do yoga?
I bet they are.
I'll counter your exorcism with:
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1710844,00.html
John Marley #38 wrote:
Yeah, set the sarcasm meter to "stun."
I'm just getting sick and tired of dealing with Catholics who flap people like Erasmus around and try to argue that the enlightened principles of science and humanism came right out of the Church -- and atheists like Richard Dawkins have childish, clunky understandings of sophisticated metaphors and stylized rituals -- while the Catholic hoi polloi and rabble standing behind them exorcise demons, petition the saints, see Mary in tortillas, and generally behave like a bunch of superstitious yahoos.
I think inkadu in #36 has it right -- "moderate" religion simply doesn't provide much punch and excitement. To truly get yourself into a mind-blowing disassociative state and work up a heady mingled sense of empowerment and abasement, you need magic and monsters. You need an enchanted universe where you are a significant part of the plot and action, in a battle between good and evil, us and them.
First they will demonize demons -- and then they will demonize the rest of us.
i'm feeling pretty awful right now. i think it's either a throat infection or Beelzebub himself.
so - which is cheaper? spiritual theological exorcism or antibiotics? (or reiki?)
This is hilarious! They think they're going to get rid of me and the Ancient Ones with an exorcism? Bwwwwaaaaahhh!!! I'll have them for lunch! I told Xenu this story and he chuckled and said that the Scientologists and the Christians are in cohoots. Heh, heh, heh, we are legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget. Expect us...
Madness!! Fuckin' Madness!!!
#33 My bad, should've learnt by now not to trust news from the Vatican. Which does not change the fact that I still have problems with the title.
OK, this comment ended up on the wrong post somehow! Trying again:
Isn't this a more appropriate Angel quote:
"Are you crazy? I saw that movie - even the priest died!"
This sounds like a great marketing opportunity for the Devilmaster by Infermco.
Make that "evil influences of oldies radio . . ."
Don't we just love these "doctorates" given out to the
mentally deranged with the insane monikers of delving
into real scholarship such as this moron's, doctor of
the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, and the rarely heard
doctor of angelic phantasmagoria. I'm just madly wild
of "biblical scholar". To think that some of our renowned
universities offer courses and degrees in theology and
have the freaking nerve to confer them on idiots who will
go out into the real world and infest society with their insanity. Saul Bellow said it well: "A great deal of
intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." Deep in the illusion of religion
run amuck among the muck.
This is exactly correct.
This is why exorcism should be left to professionals:
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j6wQtjxlZfzZXLjOZxqlWsQh91iAD8UIVPUO0
Back when I was in industry, I worked for a medical device company, and there was a quality assurance engineer who was the height of pompous assitude. One day, I stopped by his cube, and I was reading some cockamamey quote he had pinned up on his board -- something buy C.S. Lewis, or equally droll -- about the scientific method. I knew there was a story behind it, and before I could say anything, he said "You like that? I make sure that everybody on my church's investigation board has a copy of that pinned up on their wall." [I]Investigation board?[/I] At that point, I had to ask, and boy was I disappointed I did: "Oh yes, we investigate demonic possessions, and sometimes do exorcisms!" He went on to brag to me about how, in the field, he'd seem some things that would really "leave you scared beyond reason." I didn't say anything, but he'd already told me a few things that did. My company hired this guy to protect us from bad science?! From then on, I avoided him like the clap whenever possible.
I hate to say it, but quality engineers are far too often the lowest quality engineers.
I find it completely ridiculous that they focus so much attention on exorcism without taking on the root cause of the problem, namely the black market ghost trade.
How does one diagnose demonic possession? Is it a diagnosis by exclusion? Man, I'd love to take some of those exorcism classes and find out what those kooks really believe; it would be a hoot I'm sure.
(Of course one can write a much more effective tirade about QA engineers when one uses spellcheck before posting! Oops.)
First they came for the demons, but I said nothing, because I was not a demon....
Such negativity...lets look at the sunny side of this. Consider all the money that will be freely changing hands from the marks to the exorcists... all the money the fundies and Catholics will turn over that won't be available to foster their beliefs or fund politicians or pay for whatever idiocy that would otherwise attract their attention. The sound of the tiny hooves of the faithful flock stampeding to the nearest exorcist to be shorn is music to my ears. The question we should be asking is how can we make this a more fulfilling experience for them?
Apparently this is the same pope who recently declined delivering an inauguration speech at an Italian university because a group of scientists objected to his invitation. Because of this, a large number of Italian catholics raised a big brouhaha and lamented that the Pope was being "censored".
If you're talking nonsense, why on Earth do you think you have anything useful to say to scientists and students?
J.T, you might also want to look up the word droll. ;)
Possessed? Tormented by demons? Who ya gonna call?
Demonbusters!
[cue theme music]
If there's something strange
In your neighborhood
Who you gonna call
(Demonbusters)
If there's something weird
And it don't look good
Who you gonna call
(Demonbusters)
I ain't afraid of no demons
I ain't afraid of no demons
If you're seeing things
Running through your head
Who can you call
(Demonbusters)
An invisible man
Sleeping in your bed
Oh, who you gonna call
(Demonbusters)
Don't put up with the unholy one or his minions for one second longer.
Call now! Operators are standing by.
Don't laugh. I can see why one would need an engineer with a minor in exorcisms.
It is quite common to see computers that are demonically possessed. Microsoft must be part of the portal of hell.
So, you can spot the Polish scientist at the conference: he's the one with the braided armpits.
Or something.
.
Obviously this guy Jankowski is confused. He needs some sessions with the e-meter, get those Thetans out of his system, then he'll be clear. Call Tom, only he can help!
Ah, Raven, thou speakest truth.
One can smell the sulfer when booting up with this abominable manifestation of the dark and dangerous netherworld.
One can just see the Morning Star wielding not a sword against the supreme being, but a PC booted up with microsoft.
I would think that if god did exist, even he/she/it would despise this operating system...
Thanks for the laugh...
This is disgusting. A lot of what the religious do hurts only themselves, but this can cause serious problems for some kid, and prevent people from getting the appropriate treatment.
Goddammit, I wish the Catholic Church would just die already.
What? The Catholic Church hurting children and preventing them from accessing decent medical treatment? Surely not!
For a first-hand view, check out Brian Larnder's Primordial Blog, for accounts of his experiences in the Pentecostal church, before he found reality:
http://primordial-blog.blogspot.com/search/label/Demon%20Possession
i have some crazy bu** sh**t relatives who believe on holy water and crap (feels good to vent). Once we went to one of them for a weekend (3.5 hour drive) and noticed a bottle of holly water in her pantry in an ozarka water bottle. (I know this because she was going to give me half of it to take home which I kindly declined). For the heck of it I woke up early in the morning and replaced her bottle of water with tap water.. I wonder if she noticed or if it was effective for her for whatever she was going to do with it..
Demons? That's ludicrous. Everyone knows possessions are caused by seventy-five million-year-old ghosts.
So, this resurgence of exorcisms raises an odd question. If catholics assume demons are real and if at some point the number of exorcisms dramatically dropped, then that should have been a time of sky rocketing demon possession. There should have been stigmata around every corner, levitating children and the streets slicked green with vomit. But we don't see that or anything else indicative of rampant demon possession.
Why is there no evidence of unrestrained demon activity? If they're causing as much trouble as they did when exorcisms were common, then either exorcisms have no real effect on demons, or these demons don't exist.
Obviously not, since if he had he would have realized there is nothing to be done except be eaten first.
"To truly get yourself into a mind-blowing disassociative state and work up a heady mingled sense of empowerment and abasement, you need magic and monsters."
I'm not really a magic 'n' monsters guy, but when I read a comment like your #51, I get the urge to stand and give up my HALLELUJAHS!
"To think that some of our renowned
universities offer courses and degrees in theology and
have the freaking nerve to confer them on idiots who will
go out into the real world and infest society with their insanity. "
Yeah. It would seem to me like a doctorate in theology would make one overqualified for anything outside academia (or would mean that the scholar must have broken the code at some point). I would have figured that they just ensconse themselves in a university and pore over dusty books. But apparently some of them go out and get some exorcise.
Of course it is. But it is what I call a true joke.
Now, now. Many people think that network administration is a dark art, but it just isn't so. There are sound, technological reasons why you have to sacrifice a chicken to your server once in a while.
Also, I've always loved the "Master of Divinity" degree.
2 things I got from this article. I am glad the people performing the exorcisms are safe from ever needing one themselves thanks to this clause, "Exorcists said they are careful not to treat people suffering from mental illness" and secondly, I think my dog is quite possibly possessed as she can "overpower others with a stench"
And really. I do agree with Inkadu. I think people so far divorced from reality are very dangerous. They not only abuse their children but can lead to horrible trauma in our general public. There are so many things wrong with exorcism,it is hard to know where to start. But while we can laugh at it easily, it is still a very scary thing for those accused of possession. Instead of getting help, they are getting prayer, which is proven to not help at all.
It freaks me out to think about the poor kids whose parents are too ignorant and indoctrinated to see past this.
I have no idea what the solution is, but it can't help to start talking to people about reality.
The problem is that they bilk the ones who can least afford suffering from the scam. Many of these people need serious therapy and/or medication. Further, they're frequently poor are are being bilked out of money they desperately need.
Now, if they were bilking Amundson, like the Discovery Institute is, I wouldn't mind. Amundson doesn't need his money. But "Crazy Aunt June," or whomever, who's living precariously from social security check to social security check does.
Yeah, but if you're a schizophrenic without a steady job or income, do you think you can afford going to anti-psychotics and regular psychiatric care?
Going to an exorcist or a botanica seems like an economical choice, especially if you don't have any concept of demonstrated efficacy.
Now, now. Many people think that network administration is a dark art, but it just isn't so. There are sound, technological reasons why you have to sacrifice a chicken to your server once in a while.
As science and religion become more inter-supported with each other, we will see Universities exploring ways to further advance knowledge in the intertwined field. I am writing a proposal for a new program at St. Martin's Seminary for a Doctorate in Computer Technotheology which would include such practices as sacrificing chickens in near proximity to the server, as well as the usefulness of a nerf bat in exorcising faulty daemons from your aethernet.
Good lord, the parody just doesn't stop.
One of the benefits (sarcasm, sarcasm) of a good catholic education was a theology class. My sophomore theology teacher told us that exorcisms are *ahem* real, but the church covers it up because it would cause a "crisis of faith" - funny, I'd think I'd go to church if they could prove a demon possession... Also, every catholic diocese has at least one exorcist. So there you have it, The Exorcist was a documentary.
Hey, if demons are real, they could put one in a cage at each church. Attendance would be through the roof! AS IF!
These people are for real. My Pentecostal mother-in-law gave me a book on "self-exorcism" a couple of years ago. I grew up in the Northeast, and had never met a fundamentalist before. The experience has only reinforced my repulsion. My husband and I are both atheists. His mother blames his atheism on me, but I would never have dated him in the first place if he had not been atheist.
Pope:[answers the phone] Hello, Popebusters... Yes, of course we're serious... You do?... You have?...A 30 story tall Sta-puff Marshmallow man?... No kidding. Just gimme the address... Oh sure, they will be totally discreet. Thank you
[hangs up]
Pope: WE GOT ONE!... To the Popemobile!
I stopped listening to what my old country was doing when they sent a sacrificial group to Iraq so that they could get loans to buy F-16's with. Please don't remind me.
Rumor has it, priests have designed this little test for exorcists. test your faith
It is a test of one's virtuousness. Only if you are pure of heart will your hand not shake, allowing you will achieve enlightenment.
Good luck, pilgrim.
Tru Brit re#26, How could you possibly doubt numerical intensification? You are obviously not well enough versed.
Psalms - Google Books Result
by Charles S. Briggs, Emilie Grace Briggs - 2000 - Religion
This method of numerical intensification is familiar in WL., v. Pr. 616K)l 30" "K -- that strength belongeth unto God~], that is the first thing, ...
books.google.com/books?isbn=0567050122...
Agreed, although my memories of this are mostly of getting tummy ache trying to hold in my laughter at the sheer absurdity of what the teacher was attempting to insert into my head. Lucky I always managed it, getting sent to the head to be exorcised doesn't sound like my idea of a good time!
Assuming this is the same exorcism center mentioned in the local (german) newspaper a while back, the villagers (at least some) where it is to be established are quite up in arms about it. Their reasoning is that of comment #30, there are worries as to where the demons will flee to. The village would suffer a surfeit of such. So people are hoarding holy water, splashing it about the corners of houses, collecting crosses and stocking up on stakes. Uh oh, stakes. Perhaps pitchforks and flaming torches are also at hand.
Sorry for the double comment. Matt wrote:
"This is probably why skeptics don't see ghosts, demons or angels because they're brains aren't generating them."
I asked a fundamentalist friend about this once. Her explanation was that demons don't bother attacking or possessing atheists because satan already has us in his grasp and, therefore, doesn't need to expend any more effort.
Makes perfect sense...
I feel sorry for Poland, its hard for me to grasp that this is happening in a country that has a sea-border to my country, Sweden.
I guess they missed the enlightenment.
Wouldn't angels be important then to helping someone acquire faith?
If the demons leave the person and take up residence in an animal, they're just trading one problem for another. Who wants a demon-possessed dog running around? What if a demon-possessed rat gnaws through the brake lines in your car? It's criminal negligence at least on the part of the exorcist.
Haha @ #98. Back when I was forced to take CCD on Thursday nights in junior high, I remember one teacher said that only the truly religious get possessed because the demons want to hurt god. That settled it for me then! How do I prevent myself from becoming possessed? Don't be religious. Probably the best lesson to come out of those classes.
I feel sorry for Poland, its hard for me to grasp that this is happening in a country that has a sea-border to my country, Sweden.
I guess they missed the enlightenment.