Down there in Weird Kansas, there was a minor incident that is symptomatic of an ugly way of thinking. A high school basketball team refused to allow a woman to referee.
The Kansas State High School Activities Association said referees reported that Michelle Campbell was preparing to officiate at St. Mary's Academy near Topeka on Feb. 2 when a school official insisted that Campbell could not call the game.
The reason given, according to the referees: Campbell, as a woman, could not be put in a position of authority over boys because of the academy's beliefs.
It's also quite possible that her face was uncovered, that she had driven a car to the game, and that she may at some time in the past have actually played basketball in immodest clothing, against men…and she might even have won.
I'm sure that when all of the activities of this domineering Jezebel aspiring to be almost as good as a man are revealed, the upright young men of St Mary's Academy will march over and burn her.
Oh, but here's a hint for an organizations that want to exercise discriminatory policies. The local athletic organization is contemplating stripping St Mary's membership over the issue, but they have to wait on one little thing.
Gary Musselman, the association's executive director, said the organization will not make a decision until it confirms whether St. Mary's Academy has a written policy of not allowing female referees to work boys' basketball games.
Here that, administrators who want to implement racist or sexist policies? It's OK as long as you don't write them down.
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I 'here' that loud and clear.
No, but seriously, they'd be fools not to strip them of their partial membership either way.
Wouldn't they?
Of course, these people are the same ones screaming most loudly for the bombing of their ideological brethren and cistern in the Fertile Cresent and environs.
Gary Musselman, the association's executive director
But you can't trust him! Look at his last name -- he's one of them!!!
From the linked article:
At least somebody has some sense of fairness. I hope the game was called off.
Won't we hear a chorus of "That's not my religion" from all the other franchise Christians? "WE don't discriminate against women like that. Catholic Jesus loves all the female basketball refs, just don't let them run Mass."
Damn, Phoenix Woman beat me to it.
And of course it's not just the Muslims. Find me any organised religion that doesn't fundamentally espouse misogyny as doctrine in some form or another. For what it's worth, I don't want to hear any "separate gender magisteria" arguments, since "separate-but-equal," as we all know, isn't.
Disgusting. I had no idea that there still was such disgusting sexism right out in the open.
The idea that I'm inferior to men mentally because I have a vagina is absolutely disgusting. Strip them of the association!
Women can't be put in authority over boys? Ask any mother if they agree with that statement.
Guys, "What's The Matter With Kansas?" was supposed to be a rhetorical question. We weren't expecting you to keep coming up with answers.
Aaaah, pre-Vatican II it was the nuns who ran things. Including refereeing intramural sports. Most of the priests I knew were very deferential to the Sister Mary Caligulas in the schools and convents.
Where did these people come from?
fusilier
James 2:24
It doesn't seem entirely clear whether "having a written policy" would work in their favor or not...?
Yeah, Fusilier, that's pretty funny, considering the innumerable stories about the strictness of nuns at Catholic schools back in the day. The Church seems to be regressing. Woot, Ratzi. Woot, I say.
I don't get the need for a written school policy before kicking them out. The incident was witnessed and a school official of St Mary's made the demand and gave his reasons why. From the facts given in the article one of three things need to happen:
A) The school needs to apologise and give an undertaking to never let this happen again
B) The school needs to distance itself from the official's comments, preferably by either sacking or disciplining him or her
C) The school is deemed to have approved of the official's actions and needs to be thrown out forthwith
Sorry to sound harsh but pandering to this type of bigotry gets us nowhere.
If they don't want to play by the league rules and with league designated referees they can damn well play with themselves ... wait ... that's probably not allowed either.
Narrow beliefs don't seem to leave many options.
Are they allowed to sit in a corner and eat worms? If so, then they can do that.
Perhaps she was in the unclean period of the month, wouldn't want her bleeding all over the field!
There should be no giving in to those types of schools, shun them and if they want to make a case of it make sure that everyone hears of the bigotry that they promote!
The time for just laughing these thing away is over.
#14- We certainly don't want her attracting bears, now do we?
No wonder, look who is behind : "the Society of St. Pius X", founded by our French favourite wingnut, Mgr Lefebvre.
In France, we know them well, they are about the worst it gets in religious fanatism here, they openly supported J.M.Le Pen (the far right fascist who is the only major politician against abortion and declared that the Holocaust was just a minor historical detail), are a well known refuge for antisemists, and would like us to revert to monarchy. And Women ? Just there to make babies and look after them...
Nice guys, after their miserable failure to gain any ground in France, maybe they're thinking they'll have more luck in Kansas...
"Disgusting. I had no idea that there still was such disgusting sexism right out in the open.
The idea that I'm inferior to men mentally because I have a vagina is absolutely disgusting. Strip them of the association!"
I would go further. I would make them play netball.
Has anybody noticed the name of the school: St. Mary's?
How can they live with naming the whole school after a woman?
Hey, it could be worse: She could be accused of witchcraft in Saudi Arabia.
As a nominal Catholic, I was surprised to hear this. Of course the church only allows women second-class roles in its pastoral and liturgical life (which I don't mean to defend for a second), but this is the first I'd heard of a doctrine forbidding women positions of secular authority. Of course, I knew of "ultra-orthodox" Catholic splinter groups like the Society of St. Pius X, but I didn't know they were quite so thoroughly misogynistic.
Feh! I wonder if they would've allowed her to call the game in a burkha?
TomS,
oh but they like women, you know, the thing that one uses to make babies... And when it's a baby Jeebus, you even get schools and churches named after you.
@Matt Penfold #17
Ummm...What's netball? Sorry, I really never heard of that and I'm scared to search for it on Google...
@negentropyeater #16
I heard of these whackjobs! No wonder. Things just got much clearer.
"How can they live with naming the whole school after a woman?"
Well remember the Mary the school is named after never did anything as disgusting as having sex with a man.
I assuming the Mary in question is the Mother of Jesus one, not the prostitute.
What's happening over there? Reading the posts of my vererable American fellow bloggers is like entering some scary parallel universe on days like this.
Over here in the UK we remain, thank Darwin, institutionally embarrassed by any mention of religion. Our esteemed former Prime Minister had to wait unti he left office before he converted to Catholicism - not because we don't like Catholicism here, we just don't like religion in our leaders in any shape. Long may it continue. But I fear that, as with so many other things, what happens today in the US will be happening here the day after tomorrow.
Interesting that the ref is a retired police officer. What would one of these misogynists do if they were stopped by her for speeding or whatnot? Complain that she couldn't ticket them because it violated their beliefs? As a Kansan, I'm embarrassed for these twits. We have enough bad press what with Phred Phelps, creationist School Board members, and such. Most people around here are pretty reasonable, but the nutjobs get all the attention.
Matt Penfold
Nah, too much like basketball, besides there's not enough mud.
For real pain make them try lacrosse. In the rain. Dressed in those little gym skirts.
What about jai alai? Fun to say, fun to play! Feelin' down cuz skies are grey? That's ok! Play ja alai! Play for an hour! Play all day!
Jai alai! Jai alai!
"Ummm...What's netball? Sorry, I really never heard of that and I'm scared to search for it on Google..."
Michelle, it is quite safe. It is a game played on a roughly basketball sized court commonly played by women in the UK and parts of the Commonwealth. Although it is supposed to be a non-contact sport I am informed by female friends who have played the game that it is in fact pretty rough.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netball
"For real pain make them try lacrosse. In the rain. Dressed in those little gym skirts."
Now that would be justice!
And I live in space with my monkey friend Ted.
Mary was a either a) a whore b) got raped. Either way, she lied about it.
PS. I know you were being facetious.
Taking bets here for how long it takes a St. Mary's graduate to get involved in a discrimination suit when they enter the workplace.
Ohh beautiful.
An excuse to repeat one of the best sexism stories I've heard.
Many years ago a very good friend of mine played in the final of statewide amateur cricket (British sport similar to baseball) final. His team ended up one player short due to injury and asked if they could field a player from their clubs womens team as a substitute - she was the only player available. The opposition agreed.
Now substitute players in cricket are required to play in the outfield and not close to the bat (in cricket the outfield is where you put your poor fielders), so that's where she ended up.
At the high point of the game, with the match evenly poised, the opposition batter hit a ball in her direction and set off for the run. She picked it up and threw it back directly to the keeper ("catcher" in baseball terms) at a _Very_ low trajectory, who then "ran out" the batter and the game was won.
It turned out that this young girl also played softball and could catch and throw far more accurately from the outfield than any of the young men in the competition.
The opposition were very dissappointed that they couldn't dispute the result because they would have to claim to be "beaten by a girl"
My guess is that the "written policy" question goes to whether this was an isolated decision by a single administrator at the school, or if it's the policy of the school in general.
If this was a horribly sexist decision made by a single school employee, then it will probably be brushed, after some appropriate amount of hand-wringing by the athletic association, and a promise by the school not to be horribly sexist in the future. In that scenario, look for some sort of "sensitivity training" for the administrator in question.
If, however, it was part of a pattern of horribly sexist decisions mandated by the school's rules, then there will be a stronger case for revoking the school's membership. In that scenario, expect the school to cry religious discrimination.
Er, brushed ASIDE, that is.
The article indicates that having it written down would work against St. Mary's Academy. It seems like the Kansas officials want to make sure that this is school policy before banning the school from interscholastic play. This isn't unreasonable on the part of the Kansas officials, you would want to make sure that this isn't just an isolated incident. If it turns out to be a single school official acting in opposition to school policy, some lesser punishment is probably warranted (i.e. forfeiting one or more games, no postseason play, penalize only the basketball team, etc.)
@Matt Penfold #27
...Oh.
wait... That's not embarassing! Maybe it's a girl game but it's not good enough.
More on the story here:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/highschool/02/13/female.official…
And there was at least one more good guy:
Was the game played? How did it turn out? Hopefully they considered St. Mary's Academy as forfeiting the game.
This isn't even in the bible. There is a passage somewhere that says women should not be put in authority over men, not boys.
Which even most fundies ignore. This would mean no women could be a politician, manager, college professor, or much of anything above servant.
No such thing as a biblical literalist.
1. The bible contradicts itself in hundreds of places.
2. Anyone who really followed all the rules would be doing a life sentence for violating multiple laws in the United States.
This group seems to be a Catholic offshoot. IIRC, they were all excommunicated from the RCC decades ago. At least Kansas is consistent. Weird things always seem to happen in Kansas.
"wait... That's not embarassing! Maybe it's a girl game but it's not good enough."
Michelle,
I did have in mind that they should be made to wear pleated gym skirts.
I think their written policy is around 2000 years old:
From a letter some guy named Paul wrote to his buddy Tim:
"[11] Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.[12] But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.[13] For Adam was first formed, then Eve. [14] And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. [15] Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety."
See? Some dude wrote it in a letter! What choice do they have?
(Seriously, this is the main text in the bible that most of the christian wackos use to deny women all sorts of things.)
No, no, they should be made to play tchoukball! In pleated skirts.
"No, no, they should be made to play tchoukball! In pleated skirts."
I had never heard of Tchouball before.
I cannot see it replacing rugby any time soon. Still I see the GB are world champions in the men's game, which is more than we can manage in sports we invented.
The female ref says she isn't angry or apparently surprised which seems odd to me. Has this academy caused trouble before? Also she's quoted as saying the incident needs to be examined carefully and slowly. Um what? No, the incident needs to be dealt with swiftly and firmly. To paraphrase conservatives, if you don't like this country with its equality for women and all, go somewhere else!
Calvinball. In gym bloomers.
Do they not have any women teachers at the school? For by extension that too would be placing women in authority over men. I have a hard time believeing that any school would be unlikely to have any female teachers or administrators.
See it says man, not boys. The "biblical literalists" are making stuff up again.
Wonder what my relative's minister would say about that. She is a sweet, energetic 50's something woman.
Actually I know. It is a liberal protestant denomination and she would probably tell Paul to shut up and take his prehistoric nonsense and shove it.
Take a look at the Wikipedia page for netball, and you discover that the inventor basically took basketball and eliminated the things that they thought women couldn't handle back in the Victorian era. Add to that the fact that they make the girls all wear those crazy micro-miniskirts, and I totally understand Matt's original post.
"Add to that the fact that they make the girls all wear those crazy micro-miniskirts"
When I was at school I remember I used rather enjoy seeing the girls running around in them :)
http://www.traditioninaction.org/Cultural/B005cpForfeitFootball.htm
I appears that some time in the past, the school also refused to play a football game when one of the opposing team members was discovered to have a vagina.
You guys aer AWLAYS sing bad examples of Christains but most Chrsitians are GOOD and LOVING like Jesus taught us READ YOUR BIBLE!! So don't put us ALL down b/'c of a few bads apples or do you want us all to be Atheists?!! Like you STALIN was an AHTEIST and see what happens!!!!
Re #44:
They're already playing Calvinball. They call it "Theology Class."
From #2
"Of course, these people are the same ones screaming most loudly for the bombing of their ideological brethren and cistern in the Fertile Cresent and environs."
They are not their ideological brethren, they are their Competition!
Good one, Brownian. You have the xtian fundy idiot patois down pat.
Well remember the Mary the school is named after never did anything as disgusting as having sex with a man.
I always wondered how they squared that with James the Just being Jesus' brother and all.
But other than Mary the Mother of God the title can also refer to Mary Magdelan (the Apostle to the Apostles), Mary Magdelan de Pazzi (a 17th century Carmelite mystic), Mary Frances of the Five Wounds of Jesus (18th century Franciscan), Mary of Alexandria (a 6th century cross-dresser of dubious historicity) or Mary of Egypt (a 5th century hermit).
Brownian, you got me good. I was reading that cringing, "oh man, this guy is gonna get worked in about 3 posts... he's asking for it" and I finish reading, and see your name and literally start laughing at my desk. You bamboozled me!
I nominate ajay for a Molly for comment #8.
@50:
Yeah, and most Christians have some orthographical restraint. Apparently Jesus doesn't teach grammar or punctuation...er, or coherency.
Raven said, in comment #38There is a passage somewhere that says women should not be put in authority over men, not boys.
Which even most fundies ignore. This would mean no women could be a politician, manager, college professor, or much of anything above servant.
Maybe you're too young to remember this, but 50 years ago that was exactly the situation in the US - women weren't politicians, managers, or college professors. They were secretaries, nurses, teachers, domestic servants, unskilled laborers, and that's it.
Don't be fooled - the fundies used to follow that prohibition, and some of them would love to return to those days.
@56: time to get your satire detector recalibrated...
Given the amount of drama there is in high school sports, I wouldn't be surprised if there was more to this story.
Methinks Campbell has made some unfavorable calls, and the angry parents have pressured this school official into making up some phony excuse to fire her. Heated telephone discussions, threats of transferring their children to other schools, name calling, shouting matches on the court, athletic scholarships on the line...
One says AHTEIST, another says ATHIEST.
So many possible wrong spellings and only one right way. Kind of like the many thousands of religious denominations vs. atheism.
I hope the game was called off.
It should have been forfeited. They refused to play, so they lose.
Not that it is just crazy Catholic sects in Kansas that do this.
Don't forget Mary Lambert, the Sunday School teacher who was dismissed from First Baptist Church in Watertown, N.Y. for the same reason.
You'd think discrimination on the basis of sex would be unworthy of 'good Christians', as they style themselves.
And meanwhile she can't referee, right? How long will it take them to find out? Enough for her to give up and choose some more 'feminine' endeavours? Such as cooking, sewing and worshipping some mediocre male that only beats her once a month, thank god?
You'd think discrimination on the basis of sex would be unworthy of 'good Christians', as they style themselves.
Why would we think that when simple observation shows that misogyny lies at the heart of much "good christian" ideology.
My hope is that we see more and more events like this. These are the kinds of actions that make it crystal clear to the mushy middle that religious intrusions into everyday life are threats. Threats to society, threats to sanity in general, threats to THEM. I say go for it. Let the religious nuts expose their insanity to everyone, because that's the only thing that will convince some people that it's a real problem.
#50: Perfect! :)
"Why would we think that when simple observation shows that misogyny lies at the heart of much "good christian" ideology."
Oh come now. I thought everyone knew that it is only possible to know the word of god if you happen to have a pair of testicles. Did you never learn how the vas deferens act as an aerial that picks up the beams sent direct from heaven ? Fallopian tubes just don't work as well.
Honestly, the ignorance of some people!
Did you never learn how the vas deferens act as an aerial that picks up the beams sent direct from heaven ?
Now them's some rabbit ears!
Guess so. Some people are kind of parody-proof, though. Sigh...
In defense of the Catholic schools that taught me evolution and the big bang, and to trust science over the Bible in scientific matters...
"[The] Society of St. Pius X, which follows older Roman Catholic laws. The society's world leader, the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, was excommunicated"
They can call themselves Catholic, but they've been rejected by the Catholic church.
George, I'm going to vote for another explanation -- they were going up against a better team, and didn't want an actual loss on their record. So at the end of the season, they could point at that and say, "See, if we'd been allowed to play that game [because they're certainly not going to admit any fault], we would've been the Champions!"
I've heard it claimed that he was Joseph's child from an earlier marriage, which also explains Joseph being much older than Mary. Of course, no mention is made of James at the time of Jesus' birth, but maybe they didn't need him for the census so they just left him with relatives?
A better question. Why would a modern, intelligent, successful woman belong to such a retarded bunch of yahoo's church? Seems to me they are alienating the majority of the population which happens to be female.
There are other options for women who don't want to be just poverty stricken baby makers lorded over by brain dead male mysogynists. As mentioned above, my relatives minister is...a pleasant, smart, late middle aged woman. No one in the church ever batted an eye when she was hired and she is popular, respected, and well liked.
In other words, they should just say, Get Lost Wackos.
As an aside, this church is in an upper income neighborhood. While it is not a retirement community, because of housing prices, most of the people tend to be older. Most of the members are older women and the number of children is close to zero. I've heard this is common in mainline protestant churches. The backbone tends to be female and older.
@56: time to get your satire detector recalibrated
If Scote doesn't happen to know Brownian, how is he/she supposed to distinguish Brownian's perfectly crafted piece of imitation tardtext from the real thing?
@73
Because Brownian said "STALIN" and not "STALIN AND HITLER," I'm pretty sure.
But seriously, Scote shouldn't feel too bad. I would have thought the same thing if Brownian had used a different name.
These poor twits are missing out, sure, it's scary the first time but having a powerful woman put in a poston of authority over you is one of the most exilerating experiences a man can have. On a side note I'm glad this "academy" is preparing these boys for life in the real world where, I'm sure, no employer would have the audacity to put a woman in charge of you as long as you carefully explain that you're a christian.
--sigh--
I wish my home state would stop embarassing me like this. First, the Republicans in KS select Huckabee, then KU loses to Texas Monday night (not really that embarassing), and now this.
Next thing you know, we'll have elected officials in the state house declaring that evolution is, after all, "just a theory!"
Oh, wait...
Good thing she wasn't also menstruating at the time!--Her mere touch could have made the entire team ritually impure. Those poor boys could have been disqualified--just what was she thinking!
"And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even. "
Do you know how hard it is to find a good mikvah in Kansas?
"appears that some time in the past, the school also refused to play a football game when one of the opposing team members was discovered to have a vagina."
I wasn't even aware those were used in football, let alone that they conferred an unfair advantage.
"Campbell then walked off the court along with Darin Putthoff, the referee who was to work the game with her.
'I said, 'If Michelle has to leave, then I'm leaving with her,'' Putthoff said Wednesday. 'I was disappointed that it happened to Michelle. I've never heard of anything like that."
Here's what I don't understand. Why did the officials walk out? Why didn't they promptly disqualify the misogynist twits? It would have been easy: "You don't want to play by the rules, you're disqualified."
Had the school refused to let an African-American male official referee the game, no one would have been surprised if he promptly disqualified them. I would be astonished if he would just meekly walk off. And, of course, the school would have been roundly and soundly excoriated for its hateful conduct.
My guess is that the officials didn't want to make a scene. This is another example of being soft on religious fools, because we don't want to offend them. The time has long passed since conduct based upon religious principals be accorded any respect whatsoever.
RE: Netball
I'd never heard of it until this summer when we visited Australia. Saw the Jamaican Netball team in the Melbourne airport. I assumed they were basktball or (hopefully) volleyball, but their jackets said "Netball." Still not knowing what it was, until later that week we saw them again - in a game on TV.
Now there's something you don't see in the States...
I've noticed a few people mention it, but as an educator, a coach, and at times an official, my simple response would have been:
"So you choose to forfeit the game(s)?"
I don't understand at all where they even get the ghost of a notion that they can simply refuse an official. Were I the opposing coach, I would have asked the same thing, "they forfeit, right?"
Off topic, but here is another christofacist distortion of gender: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDxcyqeRc-4&eurl=http://telling-secrets…
Where does this school come up with this crap? I went to catholic school almost my entire education up 'til college and never heard this. I had plenty of nuns for teachers that sure as heck had authority over me!
I must've gone to the deviant catholic schools. I was taught evolution after all.
These guys are a retrograde splinter group. They were excommunicated decades ago. They might want to call themselves Catholic but the main group doesn't want them.
@ #61,
I've always liked "athiest". It sounds like a superlative.
"Damn! That's the athiest mother fucker I've ever seen."
Craig was mentioning vaginas,
"I wasn't even aware those were used in football, let alone that they conferred an unfair advantage."
They are of no use in football but I am led to believe they may be of use in playing table tennis.
Actually, that feeling is pretty much everywhere. The other day I was following two Naval officers when one commented to the other: "I just hate answering to all these women!"
That was HERE in Our Nation's Capital, not Kansas (although sometimes it's hard to detect a difference).
SG
"They are of no use in football but I am led to believe they may be of use in playing table tennis."
Ping-pong balls being related to tennis elbow?
If they're defying papal authority, doesn't that make them heretics, and eligible for burning at the stake?
-jcr
They are entitled to free exercise of religion. However, what does this say for a revival of the thugee cult or burning at the stake. In addition, aren't mothers in positions of authority over their own sons. And isn't this in accordance with biblical principels. (Honor thy father AND thy mother. Emphasis mine)
In any event, aren't we over reacting here. This school didn't burn the female referee at the stake like Joan of Arc. Are we treating them like heretics in our new secular humanist based power structure? So while I feel that they are wrong; I also question our own right to force them into compliance with a standard which violates their own conscience.