The town of Frankenmuth, Michigan likes to flaunt their crosses — they've put them up on signs, and they've got one on the city logo. I suspect the town contains a Christian majority, so their local news probably felt safe putting up an online poll asking,
Should Frankenmuth remove its cross from the city shield?
They don't expect a horde of ravening godless atheists to descend on them and vote "YES!" — they never do. Mount up, internet warriors, and assault their poll with fire and sword and level it until they reel back crying for mercy.
Frankenmuth won't know what hit them.*
*Literally; most probably won't even notice. It's just a pointless internet poll.
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Yes master. Right away.
Heh, they should change the name to Frankenchrist!
Me too
I think it's quite appropriate that PZ Myers has managed to fashion the worlds first organic vote-crashing bot-net.
Well, I've put in my 'Yes' vote, but we're only at 14%! C'mon peeps!
Just replace the cross with a person impaled on a pike.
It's all the same, instruments of torture and death.
Glen Davidson
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Done.
Yes 84
No 442
As of 3:50 PM CDT, god exists 85% of the time. Or 85% exists.
So, following Pascal's Probability (TM), I will believe 85% of the time. Will update myself later. . .
By your Command PZ.
Still way down on the YES. Get on the stick all you poll crashers!
Amazing! When I checked in to Pharygula, there were no comments to this entry. In time it took me to vote and write my one line comment, four others beat me to it and the 'Yes' vote jumped from 14% to 21%. Kewl!
Sweet hell, I can literally see the numbers climbing up. That's crazy.
yes -- 250
no -- 400
Bloody Hell! One minute later and we're at 31%. This is fun!
In this particular case, I really don't give a toss - it's not as if I have to look at the damn thing.
Let them have their silly cross if it keeps them happy. It's not doing anyone any harm. I'm not voting.
And here is the result of the Epilogue: God exists by two falls to a submission.
/Monty Python
yes 308
no 461
40% Whoo hoo!
ROFL
The "yes" votes are increasing by about two to four per second. Just hit refresh to see it in action. :D
Back in the day--in the antediluvian era before every Stop-n-shop stocked multiple microbrews--they brewed a pretty good dark beer in Frankenmuth. One of the only small, regional breweries that existed back then. So, in belated gratitude, I am abstaining from this one.
Yaaay! 50-50! and it only took a few minutes :) We are going to KILL this poll.
445 Yes, 467 No. Almost at 50-50!
I'm feeling more and more like an Igor. Noble line of work, though, and all. [/Pratchett]
Frankenmuth is an interesting place. On the one hand, family style fried chicken and buttered-noodles dinners. On the other hand, the terrifying Christmasiness that is Bronner's CHRISTmas Wonderland. It is a seven acre Christmas decorations store. Really.
I would have loved to vote no in protest against the crosses in my own stupid city.
When you enter Baton Rouge via I-10 from the east, you see 3 GIANT crosses planted on the right (north) side of the interstate; they must be at least 5 stories tall. On the left (south) side of the interstate, there is a Wal-Mart. When you go shopping there, you can see the crosses looming in the background. It's kinda creepy.
I wish I was rich enough to erect a giant pentagram, or maybe a huge Darwin fish next to the crosses (or better yet, behind them).
Here's a sample.
50/50 at the moment. Polls cannot withstand the might of PZ Myers' whim!
Elwood Herring said:
What's the matter Elwood, you don't enjoy good atheist sophomoric fun?
451 - YES
467 - NO
Just a bit more to eek them out on this completely meaningless poll! Let them cry discrimination! The mean atheists are skewing their online polls! Soon we'll be stealing their MySpace friends. Bwahaha!
Victory for the overlord P Zed!
From 14$% to over 50% and climbing in about 10 minutes. Childish? Of course. Fun? Absolutely!
Voted Yes for lulz. The poll now stands at:
546 Yes - 54%
469 No - 46%
Regarding #23, Davidstvz, that picture encapsulates the true religion of the U.S. perfectly.
I love Frankenmuth. The chicken dinners are fabulous. But really, other than Bronners' onslaught, I find the crosses much less disturbing than their trend to overbavarianize everything. Cheese Haus! Chocolate Haus! Haus of Vacuum Cleaner Repair!
Good to see that the Christian folks in the community are making substance abuse victims sell pins with crosses on them for a buck apiece. Jesus would be super-pleased.
54 YES
46 NO
Reason is pulling ahead of superstition!
Back in the day--in the antediluvian era before every Stop-n-shop stocked multiple microbrews--they brewed a pretty good dark beer in Frankenmuth. One of the only small, regional breweries that existed back then. So, in belated gratitude, I am abstaining from this one.
On the contrary, you should do your part to rescue your beloved Frankenmuth from the evil tentacles of theocracy.
At the risk of being yet-another "I used to be a fan until..." poster, this pollcrashing thing is getting kind of ridiculous. It was funny-- goddamned hilarious, in fact-- when you did it to that Expelled MySpace page, but you worry maybe all these follow-up crashes might injure your credibility? You don't want the reputation of being a petty internet vandal, especially when doing the more noble work of debating and refuting whackos. Think they won't jump at this kind of behavior as an argument against your integrity?
The city shield isn't hurting anybody. Just my two cents. Otherwise, keep up the good work.
Do I dare say it?
Of course I will!
You can vote... MORE THAN ONCE!
Have at, godless heathens!
C Murdock,
The poll crashing is harmless, pointless, silly fun. Anyone who thought it reflected on PZ's integrity would have to be very petty-minded.
As for the cross on the shield "hurting" anybody, the point is not that any individual has been hurt but that the city government is endorsing one religion over others in violation of the constitution. Check out Ed Brayton's post on the topic for a good analysis of the attitudes in Frankenmuth.
I think you should have an email mailing list for this sort of thing. Any excuse to waste a few more minutes at work.
vote early and often.
#33 Boxershorts,
But ... but ... but ... can tentacles be evil?
779 (62%) Yes
474 (38%) No
Just a few more votes and we're 2 against 1.
The PZombie's Prayer:
Oh PZ, who art in Morris,
Commented be thy blog.
Thy new posts come,
Thy will be done,
On the internet as it is at Morris.
Give us this day our daily poll
And forgive those who deign not to crash it, as we forgive those who vote against us.
And lead us not to uncrashable polls, but deliver us from irrationality.
For thine is the blogosphere, and the power, and the reason,
RAmen.
I actually like Frankenmuth, it's just a silly german stereotype with polka music playing from loud speakers on mainstreet. I never even noticed anything religious, and it never stopped the hologram store from selling holographic porn.
I did notice the Christian slant to Bonners, but there is plenty upon plenty of secular Christmas stuff there as well, and the light displays are nice.
Oops. In my above post I had intended to include a link to Brayton's post but forgot to hit ctrl+V. Anyways, here it is: http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2008/05/what_i_saw_in_frankenmuth.php
As you wish!
PZ Myers said,
I'd say hoo-boy, oh yeah (from the article):
My feeling is that the cross on the city shield is hurting the city of Frankenmuth and it's citizens, unless they don't want outsiders visiting their city. They'd be better off bringing back that brewery.
A YES vote from me. I love these poll raiding posts. In our town (Modesto, CA) almost every single bus bench is covered in a "He Died for You" or "Jesus is Lord" advertisement put forth by jesusislord.com. I'm curious as to how many other communities experience/allow this.
Yes 1069 69%
No 485 31%
This poll-crashing business is hilarious... can't wait for the next one...
Like the joke "my brother thinks he's a chicken"...
We'd get help for him but, we need the eggs.
I like Christmas too for the lights and the tree. Halloween is catching up fast however, and I don't have the delusional brother issue to deal with.
I will do as you wish, master.
I wonder if they'd put a dildo on their city shield? It'd be more popular. And less disgusting than a torture device.
I love crashing polls with you!
Splendid Monkey - are you local to the Frankenmuth area? I'm about 45 minutes north of it (that lovely town with the big red diamond and all the dixon). We here treat Frankenmuth as a pseudo-Bavarian joke, except for the beer. Umm, beer.
There is more than a Christian slant to Bronner's CHRISTmas Wonderland - which is how they put the signs. The founder of the store just died and the local paper had front page news on how he had "returned to his Lord".
Just posted a hundred times. They will never learn :)
Now 73% Yes
PZ, they're gaming you and using you to pump up their google ad words revenue.
Hey, that's a good idea. hang on I'm just going to go put up a poll suggesting we scrap the national Academy of Science, close the museums, and run all the scientists out of town in place of pastors. I'll post the URL in a bit...then it's off to the Caribbean in my new yacht..
;-)
The simple fact is that these decisions to incorporate religious symbols into official government art should not be up to a vote. It shows preference which is unconstitutional - no matter how small the infraction. If there was a crescent and star in that artwork one could only image the outrage. Official government art should not leave any citizen feeling disenfranchised. It pisses me off to no end how they always want to shove their ideology in everyone's face.
Yes142073%
No52327%
:D
And He said, "Go forth my minions." So we did.
1490 to 531
A few seconds later 1507 to 533.
Yes is holding at around 74%
After my vote, the poll was 73% (1544) to remove the cross.
Yes: 1527 (74 %)
No: 535 (26 %)
...up from 1508 vs 533 between two voting attempts, so I can't tell if my second vote was counted.
And a bit below the poll is an ad for "GET THE FACTS -- SCIENTOLOGY VIDEO CHANNEL". <sigh> Well, at least it's not a Christian-only affair, I suppose...
WTF? The Franks bavarianize stuff? Isn't that a sign of the end of the world or something? <shudder>
1659 (75 %) vs 541 (25 %).
I kinda had a hard time getting to the poll part. I was too wrapped up in the "Jenna Bush Through the Years" slideshow. I was a bit scared to click on the "Paid Death Notices". Geez, rough town.
I quite agree. It's obvious that people who hold polls & elections already know the answer they want and actually participating only skews the results away from the desired results.
In the upcoming presidential election, no one should vote. We don't want to damage our credibility by appearing to hold an opinion.
BRAINS!
Yes 77%
No 23%
I need more polls to crash!
Yeah, that "Jenna Bush" slide show . . . what is it, a stagger through years of under age drinking?
I kinda had a hard time getting to the poll part. I was too wrapped up in the "Jenna Bush Through the Years" slideshow. I was a bit scared to click on the "Paid Death Notices". Geez, rough town.
Did they have the famous bottomless shot? For better or worse, that's what Jenna will be remembered for: The first President's daughter whose beaver appeared on the internet.
Yet there are non-Chistians in that town. That cross is as much an affront to the Constitution and the rights of all as is the Mount Soledad Cross in my home town.
This remains too much fun.
78% remove cross.
22% keep it.
Remember not to pass the actual population of the town.
Pop:4800
current votes:2720
Okay, okay - I admit it! I didn't actually watch the Jenna Bush slide show. I was deeply immersed in the high school yearbook scandal that has "parents seeing red". And then I had to stop off and vote for America's Best Restroom. Now THAT'S a poll I can get behind!
Hmm. And here I thought Frankenmuth was a brand of Hazelnut Liqueur. I'm so clueless! :-p
@#30 Carrie --
Overbavarianize? Really? But their shield has the Luther rose on it.
HERESY!
Thes type of polls are crap propaganda tools used to promote a christian agenda when it is in their favor. As if the 'will' of the majority holds weight against the rights of the few. So it sould only be natural that we voice our dissent. I know I voiced my OWN opinion, so I dont see this as unethical or vandalism. There might be a case made IF we were all told to vote regardless of concience, so I think we can keep our integrity intact with ALL of these as long as we voice our own honest opinion. Keep them coming PZ, see you in Sea-Town in June!
2138 (79% Yes) - 582 (21% No)
They must have known we were coming:
SURVEY DISCLAIMER
I thought it was what the wise men gave to little baby chesses.
Nobody expects the Horde of Ravening Godless Atheists.
Done!
80% Yes
20% No
Think they will figure it out? ;)
Etha, nice "prayer"... LoL.
(Actually, one of the other recent polls had a similar disclaimer. Maybe it's a trend.)
Holy crap! This is where the parent club for my breed of dogs is holding their national specialty next May. You've gotta' be freakin' kidding me! Guess I'll have to wear my scarlet A shirt when I take a trip into town from the hotel.
From my parent club's website:
Frankenmuth was founded in 1845, led by the Reverand August Craemer, a Lutheran minister. The small band of settlers came to the area from Neuendettelsau, Germany, for the purpose of teaching Christianity to the Chippewa Indians. "Franken" represents the province from which the settlers came and "Muth" means courage in German. The name Frankenmuth means "Courage of the Franconians."
Today, Frankenmuth is a thriving community of 4,900 residents who take great pride in preserving the German heritage. Area homes, businesses and surrounding farms remain neat and clean reflecting this German ethic. Well-tended flowers and lush greenery abound in what many visitors describe as the most authentic Bavarian architecture to be found anywhere in the United States.
Economy
Tourism drives the local economy. Frankenmuth draws over three million tourists annually to its Bavarian-themed shops and restaurants. The most well known of these are Zehnder's and Bavarian Inn restaurants, and Bronner's CHRISTmas Wonderland. Frankenmuth also attracts tourists with festivals and other events throughout the year. As a tourism measure, the city uses German-style signage for roads.
Architecture
The strong influence of Franconian-style architecture can be found in most areas of the city. Most
buildings in the commercial district, as well as many homes, feature stylistic interpretations of the
timber-framed buildings found in the Franconia region of Germany. This style is marked by the use of timbers in "square" and "X" patterns on the outside of buildings, as well as the use of "X" patterns on windows, doors, and other building features. The city currently requires Franconianstyle facades for the majority of new commercial construction within the main tourist areas.
The Bavarian Lodge has been host to the Scottish Deerhound National Specialty, the Newfoundland Club of America National Specialty (over 500 dog entry), the Bernese Mountain National Specialty, Great Pyrnees, and Old English Sheepdogs.
To second Wes, you must read Ed Brayton's account of this on Dispatches from the Culture Wars. He actually attended the town meeting at the Frankenmuth City Hall, and gives a play by play description. There are a few people speaking calmly and rationally against the cross, as a matter of separation of church and state -- and then there is the impassioned hand-wringing and whining coming from those who want to keep the cross, which is the overwhelming majority (remember, "Democracy = Majority Rules!")
"One resident angrily said, 'It's an attack on me, my family and my children" and darkly intoned, "Satan has been dressed up many times tonight right in front of our face.'"
Uh huh. Nice.
And of course, the stone-faced city council is claiming that the cross simply "reflect(s) the heritage of Frankenmuth for 46 years" and has no religious intent -- all while the people at the meeting insist that they need a cross on their city's shield in order to show that their city is "a haven for anyone who wants to come here and live in peace and believe in God." They're not contradicting each other, oh no.
Favorite wtf quote:
At any rate, here is the link:
http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2008/05/what_i_saw_in_frankenmuth.php#more
2479 Yes 605 No Can't keep up (with the yeses)
CHARGE!!!
When will they learn? Another internet poll
It's starting to feel like playing whack-a-mole.
Yes, Enkidu (I wrote a piece of music about you, by the way), there are very probably non-Xians in that town. Therefore, it's up to them to vote, not me. I'm not even an American, I'm British. If this was about my town, it would be a totally different matter. But I'm never likely to go within a thousand miles of Frankenmuth. I wouldn't even begin to know where to look for it on a map.
C Mudock at #34 is right; when it's about upholding the integrity of science I'm marching in step with all of you, but this is getting a bit petty, and does not do our reputation any good. We need to rise above crashing unimportant polls and remember who our real enemies are. Stay focused, people. This is just dumb, and merely gives the opposition more ammo to fire back at us.
Alex @55 You said it better than I could have.
Ad block software and the thing you can do with your HOST file also prevent the hit counter on the visited site from registering your visit. Hence, no revenue. Just remember not to use it when you visit sites you wish to support. 2-way sword, and all.
I live a half hour from Frankenmuth so it's cool seeing the city mentioned and WNEM5, my local tv station. In case you've never been there, it prides itself on being a Christmas paradise. Theres Christmas decorations in traditional German buildings and costumes. Plus it's home of Bronners, the biggest year around christmas store there is.
You guys would find it ludicrous.
My family and I went to Frankenmuth years ago. My father called it Frankenbooth when we stopped at the Canada/US border.
It's very similar to the village of St. Jacobs, which is near where I live, German-based village that mainly depends on tourism.
82% :-)
Yes 2891 82%
No 627 18%
Should Frankenmuth remove its cross from the city shield?
Choice Votes Percentage of 3520 Votes
Yes 2893 82%
No 627 18%
Yes 2963 82%
No 630 18%
Down in flames...
Has Pharyngula really got over 2,000 readers, or are people voting multiple times?
(Or both)
HEY! They can't be all bad... Bronners carries octopus ornaments!
Yes: 3011 3031 (83 %)
No: 632 633 (17 %)
(Refreshed the page after a minute or two.)
This is not America, this is the Internet.
So, what do you think? Should the cross be removed, or not? You are explicitly asked to tell them, so do!
I remember reading the number of 60,000 somewhere.
Whether it's possible to vote several times is impossible to tell at present, see comment 59. Right now the votes are up to 3064 vs 634 (the percentages haven't changed... yet).
Here's a poll I set up out of curiosity, back in Nov.
Do you believe if Abraham's God?
Even without an atheist conspiracy, the results appear more enlightened than I'd expected.
WAHOO!!!!
3108 of 3742 (83%)
to
634
Now, if only we can get to 62766 and have them at 1%.
Come on people! Vote now!
Your world needs you.
Yes 3186 (83%)
No 639 (17%)
Boy, if we keep this up, Christians won't be able to brazenly intimidate everybody else with reminders of their majority status anywhere.
I weep wit' horror at the thought of a world where ever'body don't remember they's only existin' 'cause good Chrischuns is lettin' 'em. All them Atheusts an' Jews an' Injuns gettin' all uppity and forgettin' they's place and such; why, it'll be a downright disgraceful shame.
Wolfhound,
From the web site of some church in Middletown, CT:
"Today when we think of a dog we think of 'man's best friend'. We think of these nice household pets. In our day, dogs are looked upon favorably by most people.
This was not so in Bible times. In those days dogs were looked down upon as unclean and filthy animals. Dogs would eat garbage, dead animals and even human flesh and blood (1 Kings 14:11; 22:38). They even had the disgusting habit of eating their own vomit (Proverbs 26:11; 2 Peter 2:22). The only good thing said about dogs in the Bible is that they would sometimes watch the flock (Job 30:1).
In Revelation 22:15 the word 'dogs' is used to describe people who are not allowed to enter the holy city. This means that these people are filthy and unclean and impure. They have no concern about a holy God. There will be no 'dogs' in heaven!"
Grrr.
How much longer am I gonna have to put up with that "In god we trust" crap on your money?
Yes 3573 (84%)
No 662 (16%)
3622 yes at last refresh.
In other news, "No" finally incremented... to 666!
I just voted, I didn't catch the Yes count (but it was around 84%). The No count however stood out just a bit - 666. What delicious irony!
My vote has been cast!
#23 davidstvz said
You are not alone. I have seen a half dozen or so here in Ohio. Here's the story behind the 3 crosses.
But you don't have to pass by this monstrosity every time you visit your parents! It's right next to I-75.
"How much longer am I gonna have to put up with that "In god we trust" crap on your money?"
I used a sharpie to cross it off for a little while, but it got tedious.
We have it at 85%!
#99
But I thought ALL dogs go to heaven. That's what Hollywood taught me.
Okay, nobody else will say it...
Etha FTW!!!eleven!!
Yes 3825 (85%)
No 682 (15%)
Godless Ravening Atheist Hordes of Doom (GRAHD) wins the day. GRAHHaHaHaHa. Oh, my GRAHD.
Oh Mike, that's a lovely picture of the drowning Jesus!
My brother lived in Mason and when I went buy it I got all the tacky junk sales stuff, I didnt click fast enough.
When I was growing up there, people would mark the side of the road with a cross where there was a fatal accident.
Creepy.
MikeB - Only one thing could make that more obnoxious (and, sorry to say, funnier): Please tell me that at night they hit it with multicolored spotlights.
heh, i look at that picture and see some photoshop fun...
imagine the statue immersed in a tarpit, with a T-Rex trying to help him out, but failing...
T-Rex sez:
"Well, I'd be able to pull you out, but you made my damn arms too short!"
:)
Maybe it's a glimpse of the future: It's 2020, he's returned, and he's none too happy with the effects of unmitigated global warming.
#104
"But you don't have to pass by this monstrosity every time you visit your parents! It's right next to I-75."
And Lo, I sayeth unto you, whence I landed the creature in the boat it was THIS BIG!
I think that's the whole family album actually, not just J-low
Maybe it's a glimpse of the future: It's 2020, he's returned, and he's none too happy with the effects of unmitigated global warming.
ala the old "Indian with tear running down cheek while looking at garbage by the side of the road"?
#99: SC
WOW! Now I know what I'm going to use to papertrain my next litter of puppies. I wonder how many hotel room nightstand drawers I can gain access to by then...
As stated before, Vote Early and Vote Often!
At my last vote 4212 YES 85%
720 NO 15% (boo hiss)
Usually on these polls if you have more than one browser installed on your computer, then you can vote with each browser as it appears to use cookies to keep track of whether you have voted or not. I have several computers in my home network using Exploder, Firefox, and Opera. Those get a workout also...
Way to go - crash this poll!!
@#98 Brownian --
Don't forget them homosekshuls!
I wonder if they're gonna start noticing that all these religious-type polls are suddenly throwing up freak atheistic results.
Crosses. Meh. They probably have enough "historical significance", since it was founded as some sort of a mission. On the other than...I remember a friend of mine talking about his uncle getting harassed by the city because his new garage did not meet the "German" character of the town. But if you're ever there, make sure you check out Bronner's, where it's Christmas 362 days a year. As if that sort of American consumerism doesn't diverge from the "German" character of the town.
86% at 11:30
Total votes - 5294
Population of Frankenmuth - 4804
#113 Britomart said:
I can't take credit for the pic. It is actually from the church's website. Get this, the church is called the Solid Rock Church. Check out the website where you can pay your tithes online!
And yes, it is now Ohio law that the locations of all car crash fatalities are marked by crosses and plastic flowers. :-) You can't drive anywhere without seeing at least two or three of them. Creepy indeed!
Speaking of small Michigan towns that are obsessed with their supposed European heritage, I first ran across Slashdot when CmdrTaco et al. were in college in Holland, Michigan and he was mocking Tulip Time and the tourists. I suspect that Frankenstein, er, muth, cannot be much worse than that. I think I'll stop in Hell, the next time I go through.
86%-14% out of 5420 votes. Keep posting these polls, PZ, we'll keep crashin'em!
@#128 freelunch --
Well, let's not be discriminatory.
They exist in California, too.
(BTW, I've been to Solvang, and it's...wow...just bizarre. Basically the definition of "kitsch.")
I've been to Solvang
heh. I did my undergrad at UCSB.
It's where we always took the parents when they came for a visit.
Elwood Herring
Look at a map of the USoA. See that thing on the North Coast that looks like a mitten (right hand, ventral view). Point to the metacarpophalangeal joint on the middle finger. That's Frankenmuth.
Ha! You can vote multiple times! How silly! It should be relatively easy to restrict these polls based on IP-address.
Well, I put my in four or five votes to serve our evil cause....
and the YESs have it 86% to 14%...well done everybody
CL
http://www.coulterlewkowitz.com
I'm sorry, you're not allowed to have this much fun.
I'm going to have to take all of you in to the station. Now come quietly, or I'll have to really ruin your day.
I'm pissed off that they wasted so many trees to make fucking 3 ft. crosses.
Haha I love this poll crashing ,sitting here in New Zealand and voting in polls in the US. Towns I`ve never heard of getting the benefit of my atheism.
Frankenmuth is that german for monstermoose?
What what WHAT??
The fucking law?
And yes, it is now Ohio law that the locations of all car crash fatalities are marked by crosses and plastic flowers.
hilarious.
here in CA, there is a bill pending that would do the exact reverse:
make roadside markers for fatalities illegal because the participants have become a significant hazard to traffic.
seriously. people are being killed by being hit by cars while setting up roadside shrines for people hit by cars...
#133 -
If voting was recorded by IP address, that would exclude all of the folks who are using a corporate network from having all the votes counted as all the machines on a corporate network use one IP address. I have my home network set up through a cable router which uses one Internet IP address for the 12 computers I have running on it. You can always go in and kill browser cookies if need be.
I realize that the crosses would offend the few sane people in that town, but I just would like to say that before you take down the crosses, the town should become just a little saner first. I mean, think of the poor schmucks who've never been there before and who might stop there for a break or something thinking the town is safe -or worse, settle there, thinking it's safe.
People should be warned!
Haha, it's 87% (5064) to 13% (781). I'll vote a few times more and see if we can't get it up to 90%. xD
Yes 5184 87%
No 782 13%
Ha! I scored 5200! Yay me!
(5200/87% to 784/13%)
Yes536587%
No78713%
but i agree with brightbluelizard, the signs would warn people, but there would probably be more waring signs, no?
Done, as requested. Still 87% yes.
I would laugh evilly but too much beer last night.
I dutifully voted yes...but then started thinking a bit.
I kinda like the big lit cross on the top of Mt Royal up here in Montreal. For me it doesn't represent anything but Montreal. It's one city that has good cause to reject what the church did to it before the Quiet Revolution in the last century, but like the license plate slogan says "Je me souviens"
Yes 5719 88%
No 814 12%
Yes 6080 88%
No 862 12%
Heh, I wasn't going to vote until Dana Hunter posted the disclaimer above...if it's for entertainment purposes, well then, I'm entertained.
I had two reasons why I wasn't going to vote.
1. I don't live there and while arguments could be made either way; on the township level I figure I wouldn't stick my nose in it...state level is where I start getting flared nostrils, but on the town level...well, no one ever likes it when them outsiders n' big city folk come in to change things (not that it shouldn't be done now and again, Civil Rights as an example).
2. Historical precedence. All I know about the town is what I've gathered here. If the town was founded and settled by Lutherans then keeping that bit of history in the shield, to me, is fine. I'm an atheist and would rather not have to see the cross, but if there's a history behind it, if it says something about the people who originally put the cross there in addition to having some bizarre religious meaning attached to it, then, if I happened to be in a position of power and not some viscous fluid floundering freely on my keyboard, I would keep it. I realize that with this position I would possibly end up having to let the rebel flag, which I abhor even more than religious symbols in government, fly in some situations. Though I would argue that since it represented an enemy government it should be stricken from all government buildings.
My favorite choice would be to enact that the leg of the cross be shortened, just a few millimeters every year so that in time it would be come a "+" and that way we've added everyone together in the town, but that may be scientifically sappy for some and mathematically mad for others.
Yes: 6138 (88%)
No: 868 (12%)
I, too, agree. The first one was hilarious because it was just so...right. I loved it, given the sanctimonious crap that the producers of Expelled! were regularly dishing out.
However, since PZ's unleashed his minions on a couple of more such Internet polls, it's becoming increasingly tedious. It's not even entertaining anymore. Also, the more he sics his readers on hapless websites the more I get the impression of pettiness and inebriation with the power of having so many readers who will follow his instructions to crash such polls. Sure it's "pointless fun"--to a point. When it's repeated enough times, though, it leaves a sour taste in the mouth. That's why I, too, would vote for no more of this.
Yes: 6277
No: 870
Oh how I love to whack a poll.
WTF, If you follow that link know it goes straight to a article where they say ONLY 1200 people voted and it was a majority in FAVOR of the cross.
Ok, umm ignore the previous comment, haven't had my Wheaties this morning. Poll is overwhelmingly for no cross. Article was written pre-poll crash.
That was for the telephone pole conducted by the other paper.
http://www.wnem.com/video/16223874/index.html
Ay Caramba.
Oh, please. Get some perspective. You find it tedious? Then DON'T READ IT. Some people have fun with it, some people don't, and that's OK. If I listened to everyone who didn't like some specific aspect of the blog, and cut out everything that some few disliked, this page would be blank. Heck, your site would be blank too, Orac.
As for "inebriation with power", I reiterate my previous point, with emphasis. Get some perspective. These are internet polls. Nobody has the illusion that we are changing the universe by clicking on a radio button.
At best, what we do is promote the idea that there actually is a bloc of internet atheists who will make themselves known on these things. This particular poll is a perfect example. You know the creators were not interested in actually getting a thoughtful discussion of the issues, or in finding out what people actually think -- they put up a stupid poll that had no purpose but to reassure themselves, falsely, that the majority were right because they were the majority. I think shaking up that bland presumption has some virtue.
Current vote: 6502 yes (88%), 888 no
Why crash polls?
Because it's hilarious, that's why.
It is clear that many in the faith-based world really have no idea just how many people have completely opposite views to their's. Nothing like getting overwhelmed on a poll on their own site to open a few eyes.
Show's over folks, move along - crashed and trashed.
Orac: "I get the impression of pettiness and inebriation with the power of having so many readers..."
That would apply if the majority viewed PZ as a demi-god or 'spiritual' leader. Of course, anyone familiar with the average (New) atheist, will nod wisely at the olde adage of "organising atheists is much like herding cats". Most of us are attentive and 'compliant' as long as we're fed evidence, reason and intelligent discourse.
Me? I'm waiting for the heady cocktail of fame to consume Myers Esquire, at which point I'll be reading the tabloid soap opera of cocaine orgies, Elton John-esque wigs and related shenanigans. They should make a documentary - working title = "Crossroads, Logic and Reality Expelled".
Orac, you may be more comfortable at the Master Framer(tm)'s - http://scienceblogs.com/framing-science/. It's quiet over there, your comments won't receive as much derision.
Having given this issue due consideration, this is my take on Why Crashing Internet Polls is Neither Boring nor Stupid
Kudos to all the Krashers!
People, people, please! Shouldn't we vote on whether poll-crashing is cricket or not?
It's true, everyone who reads this blog is naught but mindless meatpuppets, bound to dance to the insane whims of the Laughing God Myers.
Anyone who suggests otherwise is clearly a thrice accursed blackguard, out to destroy the happy fun land of the internet and to reap a harrowing bounty of anguish and tears!
I may not necessarily agree with the content of the above statement, but it was nicely stated. ;-)
And they're coming back! 83% to 17% and falling. After only three days.
@23 (davidstvz), 29 (Lurker), 107 (MikeB),
Check out the ginormous religious nonsense that Memphians must endure:
http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/03/24/memphis-trip-part-1/
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BTW, the poll has been replaced. Going by bullet's earlier numbers, we likely won.
I find all of you amusing. Thank you for the interest in our town, we love it too!! Sounds like a few have visited, HMMM? I hope you didn't leave feeling disgusted by a bunch of God fearing people standing in the street preaching the wealths of Christ. Or the Lutheran Hymn "Onward Christian Soldiers" being blasted out of the speakers from City Hall. I hope you enjoyed the cleanliness, friendliness, chicken, shopping, and good-natured German hospitality. Come back and suffer throught it all again sometime, we'll be forgiving of your ignorance this time too!!