Bad news from Louisiana

Well that's it. The Chinese and probably Indians will soon lead the world in science and technology....

It was almost inevitable that some state, somewhere, would pass one of those "academic freedom" things. Louisiana is better than most, as they've already got a history of creationist litigation. Their "balanced treatment" law was struck down by the US Supreme Court in 1987: Edwards v. Aguillard. Relax, guys. We've seen this movie before.

This is the natural consequence of the left embracing postmodernism. All of a sudden otherwise rational people are willing to entertain lunacy in the name of fairness. We would all do well to remember that science belongs to no particular party, and everybody needs a good kick in the pants sometimes to remind them of the value of objectivity.

Some moments of ironic levity:

http://www.partiallyclips.com/index.php?id=1083
and
http://www.partiallyclips.com/index.php?id=1012

@#1 (Brian)

Don't worry. Those wonderful folks over at the RAND Institute assure us that we're still #1 in science and technology because we import all our talent.

As I read the name of the bill I thought to myself "we should call this kind of thing Louisiana Science", and then I reached the last sentence of the post... damn it, it's impolite reading my mind before I even have my ideas.

To an outsider such as myself it is astonishing that things such as this can happen. I count myself more and more lucky (if there were such a thing as luck) to have been born in sheltered, relatively rational corner of the world. But it is still frustrating to read of such such utter (and apparently wide-spread) stupidity in a nation which has also produced some of the people I admire most. My brain, you're making it hurt.

Wow. I mean wow.

Can you like, buy stocks in law firms that deal with constitutional law-or do the ACLU employ their own full time lawyers?

Sigh. All this Creeping Christianism troubles me. A lot.

Completely OT, but there's an interesting article in today's NYT: Gay Unions Shed Light on Gender in Marriage.

Someone should introduce parody legislation for mathematics, allowing teachers to "teach the controversy" regarding pi. Is it 3.14etc, the Biblical 3, or somewhere in between, dictated by an all powerful, yet nameless, intelligent designer?

P.S. Ben Nevers? My dad's middle name is Never. Think we're related?

As long as we're talking NYT, I rather enjoyed this this morning.

You think they oppose evolution in biology.

Try suggesting adding a course in critical thinking around the 6th or 7th grade. They sorta like the masses uncritical.

Well thank you, Louisiana, for doing your best to ensure that the nation's Wal-Marts will never have a shortage of qualified employees.

Actually, this would be great for college admissions officers nationwide. Think about the time saved in reviewing applications from hopeful science majors. Ahh...little Suzi wants to major in physics here at Indiana University. Let's see what we have here...where is her transcript? Here it is. Wait? High School diploma from Louisiana? Rejected. Takes ten seconds. No time wasted looking at grades or reading letters of support. This is fantastic.

Louisiana high schoolers go to Louisiana colleges, right? I mean, they do in-state tuition like most states. Ask the LSU Biology Department what they think of this, since they'll be the ones cleaning up the biggest part of the mess.

"Provides that a teacher shall teach material presented in the standard textbook supplied by the school system and thereafter may use textbooks and other instructional materials to help students understand, analyze, critique, and review scientific theories in an objective manner, as permitted by the local school board."

http://www.legis.state.la.us/billdata/streamdocument.asp?did=482728

Look on the bright side. Advocates of intelligent design claim it is a scientific theory.

Teachers can introduce materials that expose the stupidity of creationist "science" textbooks. Open season on the morons.

Works both ways.

Louisiana, I weep for thee. I'm so glad we don't have any of this insanity in the UK...apart from those wacky public-funded schools, that is.

This isn't nessecarily all bad.
When i was in (the danish equivalent of) high school, i hated when teachers only used the standard material in their classes. It was usually boring and repetitive since the teacher was always just going through what you'd just read.
A few teachers stood out by also using different materials (usually from the web) to shed light on various topics in our curriculum and it made things much more interessting.
The keyword here is of course that the materials have to supplement whats in the textbooks and that also seems to be stated in the bill. Intelligent Design can hardly be considered supplementary to a book about evolution, so if teachers used materials about it, they should be in just as much trouble as if they did it today.

I think you should be praising the courage of the three (Democratic) House members who voted against it.

When does the Louisiana legislative session end? Is this going to work like Florida, where the vote is largely symbolic?

Louisiana high schoolers will be in for a big shock when they attend proper universities that don't allow equivocation on the well-established facts of natural science.

There have been a number of colleges, particularly state colleges, that have had to add even more remedial classes over the years as the quality of high school education fails in consistency. Pretty soon these colleges will have an entire prep year or so to bring their high school grads up to competence.

All I can think is that "Louisiana Science" must be some kind of polite euphemism

Holy Crap, did I hear somebody say Lousiana Science ?

Please don't repeat that in public if you come down South, people will think you're crazy or retarded.

Louisiana is regarded as a third world country by ALABAMA !!

In the trades, if you drive a screw with a hammer, the tool is called a 'Louisiana Screwdriver". A roll of duct tape is a "Louisiana Tig Welder", and so on.

I have no idea what Louisiana Science is, I shudder just thinking about it, but it would resemble mutilating a chicken if there's a demon in the stove.

BTW, there's Louisiana, and there's New Orleans, they have nothing in common, and they don't get along.

Teachers can introduce materials that expose the stupidity of creationist "science" textbooks. Open season on the morons.

If they don't want to keep their jobs. Sure, most parts of Louisiana are fairly heavily Catholic, unlike the rest of the South which is more Evangelical, but Gov. Bobby Jindal is a Catholic and he is every bit as religiously skewed as the average Southern Evangelical. A teacher who points out the errors of the Bible might be fired personally by Jindal.

Again. Sorry. My state's kinda fucked in the head when it comes to science, although there are great teachers, professors, and researchers here.

This is why Barbara Forrest has so much experience dealing with this nonsense. When she taught philosophy at SLU, certain members of the school board of Tangipahoa were relentless in pushing creationist bullshit down everyone's throats. It's no surprise that this is a statewide problem.

Mango said:

Louisiana high schoolers will be in for a big shock when they attend proper universities that don't allow equivocation on the well-established facts of natural science.

If this is a signal of the direction in which Louisiana School educational standards are going that won't be a problem. By the time most of them graduate their High School science qualifications will be so debased no reputable University will let them in!

MikeP: #3 This is the natural consequence of the left embracing postmodernism.

Mike, if you actually analyze the rhetoric of theocrats and libertarians, they are much more "post-modern" than most of the left. Most of the left in the US is pretty boring liberals, with a few overly-influenced by radical left ideas of idealism and ideologicalism.

But throughout the right, you get concepts of "socialist" or "liberal" science -- that ideology defines reality, rather than the other way around. Ends up sounding a hell of a lot like Stalinist ideas of "bourgeois science". Underneath the right, is the fascist (and so very postmodern) idea that reality is the expression of the Will.

The left has Foucault, but it also has Chomsky (anti-postmodern); but the right lost Goldwater and now is filled with pure irrationalism.

...that don't allow equivocation on the well-established facts of natural science.

Equivocation isn't prohibited. Well, perhaps it is in introductory classes or in the lecture hall in general, but the philosophy of it isn't, or at least shouldn't be. If the professors are worth their salt, they need to be teaching the students that even well-established facts in science are NOT CAST IN STONE and can be overturned. It's the notion of using a disagreeing myth to increase the error bars around a given fact that's problematic.

most parts of Louisiana are fairly heavily Catholic

Yeah, well, it's a brand of Catholicism heavily infused with Voodoo and Santarria practices, I'm not kidding.

Re #17 by David vun Kannon:

When does the Louisiana legislative session end? Is this going to work like Florida, where the vote is largely symbolic?

I've read that they have to get stuff wrapped up by 20 June. The session ends a day or two later, but the 20th is the last day they can do this.

What do you expect from a state that still considers the Civil War the "War of Northern Aggression". Unfortunately, all of the well educated people (myself included) realize how horrible things are and get the hell out of there as soon as possible. I know I should probably return there one day and try to enlighten the ignorant masses, but I don't like being in a state that when I wear my "Teach Evolution" t-shirt I get dirty looks. I hope the senate will have enough sense to nix this in the bud, but I wouldn't bet any money on it.

All the local LA school boards:

http://www.doe.state.la.us/Lde/pair/1275.html

Holy crap, Look at this from Sabine Parish!

We believe that:

¨ God exists.

¨ All children can learn.

¨ Excellence in education cannot be compromised.

¨ Every human being has worth and dignity and is worthy of respect.

¨ High expectations support achievement.

¨ Ongoing assessment is needed to improve programs.

¨ The school environment must be safe and orderly.

¨ The principal is the instructional leader.

¨ A significant amount of classroom time must be allocated to instruction in the essential skills.

¨ Education is a shared responsibility of family, school, teachers, staff and community and each should be given a voice in decisions that affect their children.

http://www.sabine.k12.la.us/district/believe04.htm

Yeah, well, it's a brand of Catholicism heavily infused with Voodoo and Santarria practices

Depends on where you live, doesn't it? IIRC Cajun country is pretty orthodox in its Catholicism, NO is a more mixed bag. Still, its not as if creationism is central to Voodoo or Santarria, though neither cares about evidence.

When I was a kid, my dad was considering taking a job in New Orleans. One of the reasons he didn't was the godawful school system there. Atlanta may still be in the South, but it had some pretty good schools.

Seriously, I'm not surprised... you are talking about the state where, back in 1991, the state rep. race was between a corrupt politician and a KKK grand wizard!

And scooter (June 12, 2008 9:55 AM), New Orleans is Louisiana these days: the major is MIA while his private lunch tabs with his wife pile up and are charged to city hall credit cards, the Church of Christian Scientist are more active then ever, public schools are failing totally, Frank J. Tipler actually still has tenure at Tulane (it's hard to et rid of tenured professors but, after Katrina, Tulane did just that to many good researchers, except for this crackpot), etc, etc.

Then again, New Orleans, I'm still proud to swim home.

And we even spell mayor as major!

There is a large 'positive' feedback mechanism at work here. Poorly educated students will be discouraged/ dismissed from colleges and universities and they will settle down and become vengeful voters who will bear a grudge against the state' educational system (which deemed them unfit) and side with the oppression propaganda promulgated by local religious groups. Ignorance- the gift that keeps on giving!

The Discovery Institute has realized that they can't get their way in the courts, so now they are trying another strategy...carpet bombing America with so-called Academic Freedom bills. This will likely be a more successful strategy since state house representatives and senators rely on public opinion to stay in office. Who can be against the plight of the persecuted teacher? They might as well have slapped a few pictures of kittens on their bills to garner more sympathy votes.

The supplemental materials that will be allowed aren't required to represent scientific theories. It's enough that they point out so-called "weaknesses" in evolution, but it doesn't prevent them from proposing Intelligent Design. And once that happens, religion has found the back door to the classroom because ID = Religion. That's not just me saying it...that's the legal opinion that came out of the Kitzmiller v. Dover trial. Anyone saying otherwise is throwing up a smokescreen because they don't want you to see Jesus in disguise sneaking into science class.

Remember that crazy teacher with the weird ideas you had back in 8th grade?

Yes. She tried to claim that gravity was caused by air pressure. No, seriously!

The skepTick: "That's not just me saying it..."

...it's the Discovery Institute themselves:
http://www.antievolution.org/features/wedge.html

It doesn't get any clearer than that. Certainly, with such a glaring admission of the religious roots of this movement, no one would ever be taken in by DI-promoted "academic freedom" bills....right....anyone?

Bueller?

"...carpet bombing America with so-called Academic Freedom bills"

In Michigan we seem to have the same bill being introduced twice, once in the House (HB6027) and once in the Senate (SB1361). I'm not familiar with state government; is this a common tactic?

Disco Institute is already proclaiming what they will shove into schools:

"What would be permitted under the bill is the presentation of scientific analysis and critiques of existing scientific theories. Thus, school districts could allow teachers to cover debates among scientists about whether random mutations are actually a major engine for evolutionary change as modern Darwinism claims. They could also allow discussions of experimental evidence showing the limits of natural selection. And they certainly could allow the presentation of more information and analysis about theories of the chemical origins of life from non-life."

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2008/06/americans_united_misrepresents.html

See? All science, not religion. No, sir!

MAJeff (#10): "As long as we're talking NYT, I rather enjoyed this this morning"

Yeah, the NY Times article was great, but then they had to go and publish these two letters:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/12/opinion/lweb12evolution.html?ref=opin…

I'm all for fighting the "bugfuck crazy stupidity", but it seems to me we really need to find a way to smack down this false evenhandedness on the part of the media.

Cajun country is pretty orthodox in its Catholicism, NO is a more mixed bag.

The Louisiana Gulf Coast, is my old maritime riverboat stomping grounds. This trade did not hire blacks until a decade ago, so I never met anyone from New Orleans. Southern LA stretches from Slidell to Sulphur. Then there's NO.

First of all, the word 'Cajun' is a marketing term for food and music, I never heard anyone refer to themself as a Cajun, they call themselves 'Coonasses'.

These are people who learned English in school, or maybe television, if they had one. They speak a Patwain that sounds like English but is based on French, which is where the Catholic comes from, but folks who grew up fifty miles from each other have some difficulty communicating because of language drift.

Many Coonasses of my generation (50 yrs old) are illiterate.

While the Catholic Mass is the same as everywhere else, the culture is bizarre. They have healers who work with frogs, rosaries, chicken feathers, incantations and crucifixes. They have soothsayers, and assign certain magical properties to different animals, they absorbed the Native American population.

They also tend to be about as racist as you can find outside of Boston. On the other hand, they are a real hoot once they accept you, and love to drink and dance and have a good time, and are all excellent cooks.

My close interaction with these folks spanned from '78 to '96 on and off. Over this time I've observed the culture being assimilated resistance is futile , and you will find few people under 25yrs who speak Patwain these days, but the culture is still very separatist in many ways.

When you're 47th in the nation in education, you just have to do something about it.

They'll be at 50th soon, and then who will be laughing (other than the schmucks they pushed out of 50th place)?

Glen Davidson
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7

#29 CalGeorge, one of these things is not like the other...

If that is the official school website, how is that even legal?

How many creationists does it take to screw in a lightbulb
- none electricity is just a theory.

If that is the official school website, how is that even legal?

No idea.

I've looked at a bunch of the other school site and haven't found anything similar.

But's it's definitely on the Sabine site, accessed via the Lousiana Dept. of Education poage listing "Links to Louisiana School Systems."

Look on the right side banner under:

Sabine Goals, Vision, Motto, Beliefs, and Purpose

(click on "Beliefs")

http://www.sabine.k12.la.us/

Please excuse my typos.

All that is needed is a few teachers to successfully apply this law to the reproductive biology curriculum by graphically explaining the "ins and outs" (pun intended) of anal and oral sex, demonstrating how to use a condom (preferably on a preposterously large black dildo in front of a classroom full of li'l white fundies), handing out a few abortion information leaflets, and explaining the pro's and con's of the pill, and this'd be repealed in a snap.

Imagine the dinner-table conversation in a Fundy household: "So, what did you learn in school today, honey?" ... "Oh mom, it was great, we learned all about cunnilingus, fellatio, and felching".

As a Biology grad student at a LA university, I can say that this really won't do much to degrade the k-12 science education. It's already worse than one would think is even possible. Most of the freshmen undergrads here have never even seen/used a microscope before they get to college.

It's not surprising that the 3 who voted against were from New Orleans and Baton Rouge.

94-3 is about right for the relation of LA population who survive to voting age who haven't been failed by public education in this state.

Remember that crazy teacher with the weird ideas you had back in 8th grade?

That would be Karl Priest:

Before I retired, I was a full-time math teacher. With the full knowledge and dismay of state and county school officials, as well as the American Civil Liberties Union, I demonstrated to my students that mathematics, using statistics, probability and number magnitude, proves beyond the shadow of doubt that evolution is nonsense.

Unfortunately, statistics and probability also proves beyond a shadow of doubt that any child's education has a lot in common with Russian roulette.

Remember that crazy teacher with the weird ideas you had back in 8th grade?

It was 6th grade for me. I guess they start early in CA. Must be all those atheist homosexuals.

"We are marching proudly backwards to the future." That's from "The Department of Homeland Decency: Decency Rules and Regulations Manual," a hilarious satire of these sorts of actions. "Apes don't fight to liberate other countries of apes. Therefore we don't come from apes, we are better than apes, apes are nothing like us, and anyone who teaches otherwise will go to prison. Or worse." is how it looks at evolution. It's available at bookstores everywhere.

But throughout the right, you get concepts of "socialist" or "liberal" science -- that ideology defines reality, rather than the other way around. Ends up sounding a hell of a lot like Stalinist ideas of "bourgeois science".

Or, if we run around the circle once, "Jewish physics" vs "German physics".

While we're trawling through Louisiana school sites, WTF is *this* about?

http://www.sabine.k12.la.us/fes/title1/praybeforethegame/default.htm

Gawd, I hope that's a teacher's personal page. Even that would be wrong. They probably think it's very accepting and open because it doesn't proclaim any particular sect; it includes everyone! (As long as you're Christian)

Yeah, the NY Times article was great, but then they had to go and publish these two letters:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/12/opinion/lweb12evolution.html?ref=opinion

Actually I rather liked the second letter, in which I detect perhaps a hint of snark.

• Strengths and weaknesses, as recommended by "the faculties of the Texas higher-education system life-sciences departments" should be taught "if discussion . . . will aid precollege students' understanding".
• The same should apply to comparative study of religions, with explicit mention of a "weakness" of Christianity and a "strength" of Buddhism.

I admire the writer's restraint. I might have been tempted to cite a strength of Pastafarianism.

Is it the pestilential bayous and Mississippi muck that entrenches religious derangement in these people? I just can't say that I hope another massive hurricane inundates this stricken state of moroncy, for this will just give credence to the demented retards that their god is punishing the state for not preaching and enacting their insane bullshit. Perhaps we should isolate Louisiana with a huge barrier and extricte all the religious loonies from all the other afflicted states, make sure that they don't get out, and officially rename the state LOONIANA.

While we're trawling through Louisiana school sites, WTF is *this* about?

Religious or not, people who feel 'inspired' by shitty tripe like that should be taken off whatever life support systems keep their blood pumping up to but not much further than their necks.

I'm beginning to wonder if the science vs. religion issue in North America should in fact take a backseat to the issue of the rest of us vs. people who have no fucking taste whatsoever.

DM: Or, if we run around the circle once, "Jewish physics" vs "German physics".

Ah yes, Godwin is dead! Long live Godwin!

And only a decade ago, I was within spitting distance of concensus reality --- it only took a few years of Bush to make me as crazy as I was as a teenager. And that's without psychedelics.

I actually heard the argument from a Libertarian that climate research was "socialist science".

CalGeorge got it exactly right:

Teachers can introduce materials that expose the stupidity of creationist "science" textbooks. Open season on the morons.

Works both ways.

This is the way to respond to this. Take their license and make them eat crow. The whole problem with dealing with creationism in public schools is that any teacher who dared to explicitly address creationist pseudoscience lunacy would be hounded by fundamentalist parents in the district for attacking their religious beliefs (even though the teach is addressing the pseudoscientific claims in regard to science related issues; but we know how creationists, and young earth creationists especially, love to turn everything into deceitful word games). Now a public school science teacher who chooses to explicitly address creationist nonsense in a high school science class (or sociology class, for that matter) in Louisiana can not only do so freely, but can sue any fundamentalist parents who try to attack them for doing so for violating the law.

There is irony in these bills being proposed by creationists in various states. Where and when any of these bills are passed, instead of moaning and bitching about it critics of creationist pseudoscience should be taking full advantage of the irony of the situation to promote public school science teachers openly confronting creationist pseudoscience, where appropriate, on specific science topics, in science classes to not only educate children about science as usual but to also educate them about science by showing them great examples of how to critically analyze arguments purported to be "scientific" by creationists to see why they are either scientifically wrong, or not even science.

My Earth Science Honors teacher (9th grade, last year) had us watch An Inconvenient Truth, and my 8th grade science teacher (who I still e-mail occasionally) drew the Flying Spaghetti Monster and a pirate in my yearbook when I asked her to sign it. I love my school system sometimes (that is, when my teachers aren't being sadists by giving us a billion hours of homework each night). :P

@#54 Rick at shrimp and grits --

While we're trawling through Louisiana school sites, WTF is *this* about?

http://www.sabine.k12.la.us/fes/title1/praybeforethegame/default.htm

Wow. The poem ends:

For surely as I live and breath
The day is almost here,
When every head shall bow
And bodies tremble in fear.

Every knee will bend
And every tongue confess,
That Jesus Christ is Lord of all!
Now have "we" done our "best"?

I bow my head in honor
I bow in Jesus name,
To make the final touchdown
I pray before the game!

I kind of like the contrast between the grandiose fear-and-trembling end-times description and the mundane prayer for a touchdown. It really says a lot about these people's worldview...the unintentional hilarity of it is almost too much.

While we're trawling through Louisiana school sites, WTF is *this* about?

http://www.sabine.k12.la.us/fes/title1/praybeforethegame/default.htm

As always, stuff like this is better in Klingon. Compare:

1. I bow my head in sorrow
   I bow my heart in shame,
   For we have now been told
   "You can't pray before the game".
2. nachwIj vI'eSmoH jI'IQmo'
   tIqwIj vI'eSmoH jItuHmo'
   maQujpa' QunvaD majatlh
   'e' chaw'be'lu' 'e' wIja'lu'pu'mo'

puff-pieces by right wing editorialists decrying climate change as a communist plot

As opposed to puff-pieces by left wing editorialists promoting the global warming religion as an evil capitalist plot by Big Oil.

@64

Fail comment is fail.

No dear @65, for @64 fails even at fail. He is meta-fail. The fail-beyond-fail. You have failed.

Free at last, Free at last, Thank God Almighty Free at last.
Well a foot in the door. This is evidence of the unrelenting insistance of the American peoples belief in freedom of inquiry and thought and speech about the common inheritance of origins truth. If this state allows in the classroom criticism of evolution then I wager this state will show a rise in interest in Sciences from the students. Equal time for creationism in any way will sharpen and teach students faster then zombie acceptance of evolution doctrines.
What is it about the bagys always wanting to censor? Its like they have a secret instinct they will fail to persuade or keep believers in evolution and its friends.
Canada gives congrats to this state.

#67, PZ's phrase was bugfuck crazy, I prefer batshit fucking loco. Forcing god into a classroom in the name of academic freedom? Come ON!

Re: @67, @64

"And the trolls, and the trolls, and the trolls come marching in..."

@67

Unsuccessful troll is unsuccessful.

Byers @ 67 Your insane religious and cancerous brain sludge is not free from your concrete skull and will eventually cause you to become totally insane, and there is no imaginary god of yours to free you from this demented state. This is because the idea of a god originated in that cesspit of thoughtless matter. Let's see your non-existent god you moron. Bring it down to wipe us out. Can't do it, eh?

To Robert Byers at #67:

Equal time for creationism in any way will sharpen and teach students faster then zombie acceptance of evolution doctrines. - Talking about "equal time" is an absurd over-simplification of a complex issue. Biological evolution is an observable reality; the development of species over time has been observed. There is a very strong scientific consensus in favour of evolutionary theory. Yes, it is possible to deny evolution and to believe that the Earth was created in six literal days in 4004 BC - in the same way that it is possible to believe that it was sneezed out of the nose of the Great Green Arkleseizure. Or are we to give equal time to heliocentrism and geocentrism? Or to gravity and "invisible hand" theory?

Creationism is both bad science and bad theology. Like you, I believe in God. But creationism is nonsensical, to me, on many levels. A belief that the Earth was created in six literal days in 4004 BC, while not impossible to sustain, involves ignoring virtually all the scientific evidence as to the age and history of the Earth. The only way to reconcile the two is to argue that the entire apparent natural and geological history of our planet was, in fact, carefully designed to confuse or deceive us - and why would an omnipotent and omnibenevolent God need or want to do that?

A belief in God does not have to conflict with acceptance of the reality of biological evolution, any more than it has to conflict with acceptance of the reality of gravity or heliocentrism. Don't make the mistake of reducing God to the level of a material agent whose existence can be empirically demonstrated - for then you attempt to fuse religion and science, when they are not the same thing. Rather, the God I believe in is the Creator and driving force of the universe. He is outside the scientific laws of nature, and to try and reduce Him to a mere part of those scientific laws is not only poor science, but poor theology. You are only weakening faith, and giving atheists ammunition, by aligning yourself to this absurd argument.

Holbach at #71: I agree that Byers is talking nonsense, but that isn't a good reason to go off on a vitriolic rant about all theists. I don't know why you despise people of faith so much, but I can assure you that we're not all complete idiots. It is not a simple two-way choice between young-earth creationism and atheism; there are plenty of middle grounds. I respect the fact that you are atheist, but please stop accusing us all of being mindles idiots.

Haha, apologies for my ironic typo above - "mindles idiots" [sic]. How long will it take for someone to pick up on that?

I went to a catholic high school in Australia, NSW. Not only was science not poluted by this type of garbage, but in religion class we did not study catholisism but one of the other major religions/philosophies and its social impact. Our class in particular studied buddhism, which was tought by a christian brother without any hidden agendas of trying to preach catholisism. You could say it was religious studies from an almost scientific angle. Forgive me if I cross off USA from my "ok to live and raise children in" list.

Walton @ 72, 73 Your whole life is nonsensical, and being insane, you are just not conscious of it. You believe in a god? Prove it exists and make it materialize. Notice I use the word "it", to give "it" a recoginition of zero. Will you ever free your demented skull of that insane cesspit of nonsense?

As far as I am concerned anyone who believes in a supernatural sky fairy and his zombie son is at least 5 cans short of a 6 pack. I won't say you are idiots but you are delusional.

This is why the only place you can get a decent education in Louisiana is at a Catholic school. I did, and they never pushed any of this crap on us.

Our legislators are ridiculously stupid. What do you expect? They were educated in Louisiana.

Walton at #72
Evolution is not observable reality. The development of species over time has not been observed. By definition. How could this be?
All that is observed of the past is evidence of fossilized life of the past. A momment in time when the special fossilization event took place. All there is are rocks in the field. Its another leap of concept to say the rocks represent long periods of time and so accumulation of life in fossils. This is a error . The fossils are what they are. A sudden gathering in a sudden short period of days or weeks.
One does not see species over time but only after many presumptions which creationism convincingly debunks to any intelligent audience. At least throws a good doubt.
This is a example of how freedom of intellectual criticism in the science classroom would sharpen and intrigue students. Freedom of thought is not dangerous to the truth.
Yes there is a god and yes he did inform his creation about himself. The most intelligent people in the world, North Americans, are the most bible believing. Just the way it would be if the bible is the truth.

Fail comment is fail.

Huh? You do realize this is an English-language blog, do you not?

"And the trolls, and the trolls, and the trolls come marching in..."

12th monkey's definition of troll:

"Anyone who differs in any way, shape or form from my far-left agenda."

Do you have anything intelligent to say?

I thought not.

Thanks to those of you who posted the links to the religious language on the Sabine Parish School District's website. I have forwarded the information to Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

All that is observed of the past is evidence of fossilized life of the past.

Moron -- "fossilized life" isn't observed either -- we observer "rocks" that appear to be fossilized life, via theory. All "fact" and "data" depends on theory. In short, nothing is observed purely, nothing is known absolutely, and you and your cohorts of the greatest minds in the world can return to your closed little worlds of insanity.

I hate these vulgar skeptics, with their simple-minded excuses to believe whatever the hell they want. Please, go believe that jumping off bridges is healthy.