The Catholic League has issued another press release. In addition to disparaging the theory of evolution as the "King Kong Theory of Creation" (which is a bit peculiar, since Catholicism does not take a stand against evolution), he accuses me and my ilk (that's you, fair readers) of hysteria while making this hysterical declaration:
As a result of the hysteria that Myers' ilk have promoted, at least one public official is taking it seriously. Thomas E. Foley is chairman of Virginia's First Congressional District Republican Committee, a delegate to the Republican National Convention and one of two Republican at large nominees for Virginia's Electoral College. His concern is for the safety of Catholics attending this year's Republican National Convention in Minneapolis, Myers' backyard. Accordingly, Foley has asked the top GOP brass to provide additional security while in the Twin Cities so that Catholics can worship without fear of violence. Given the vitriol we have experienced for simply exercising our First Amendment right to freedom of speech, we support Foley's request.
They are increasing security at the Republican convention out of fear of ME? I am puissant. Fear me, O Trembling Republicans. A flick of my wrist, and cathedrals tumble to the earth; a nod of my head, and heathen legions rise up and swarm like flesh-eating locusts over the faithful.
Hah.
The remark about my backyard is amusing — Minneapolis is 150 miles away. It's also more towards one side of my house; I think Iowa would be my backyard, while Canada is my front yard. I sure hope I don't get assessed for property taxes on the entire upper midwest.
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@martha
Exactly. the problem with people is they can't separate belief from their person, so when someone dumps on their beliefs it's an automatic response to feel offended. PZ Myers isn't insulting any Catholics (except Donohue but that guy is a bastard) he's making fun of a silly old belief that somehow saying a few words can make a cracker turn into flesh. And beliefs like that deserve to be ridiculed because they are absurd.
Not in a single instance does it take away any Catholic's right to believe. Not in a single instance does it take away the meaning of the belief. Not in a single instance is it a personal attack on Catholicism. And by using offence to gain a moral high-ground, it just shows that people who believe in an absurdity feel that they above all others have the right to keep their delusion.
OH NOES! TEH CUNSERN TROLL IS TEH FUSSY!
Well them's fightin' words. I'm flying to Minnesota and I will be armed --
-- with a HERRING!
That's a fine farewell message, Ron in Houston. Have a nice life.
"All I can say is that a lot of people on this blog are great arguments for the need for natural selection. PZ included."
And thus he wraps it up with an endorsement of social Darwinism. (the "need" of natural selection? Good one).
I , a devout Catholic, will pray for all of your souls. Because I love you. Every sad, angry, wounded, abused, confused, anti-conservative, anti-Catholic one of you.
Thanks for nothing Amy. But if you're going to do any praying, pray for the virgin asses that are going to be raped by a pedophile priest given succour by the Catholic Church, mkay?
It won't do a damn bit of good. But you'll be able think you did something constructive.
Isn't the convention in St. Paul?
Amy, take your self-righteousness to other similarly self righteous religious whack jobs. Every idiot with an unsubstantiated belief thinks that they have the answer in their hearts, when in truth, you're all equally as wrong. Look, it's fine that you waste your time coming here telling us how you're going to populate the earth with your ignorance, but don't expect us to fall over and convert to your idiotic belief system when nothing you say makes any logical sense. OK, you can string words together into sentences, congratulations, but try to extend that into reasoning and empirical thinking.
Amy, I hate to tell you this, but in case you haven't noticed, you and your minions revere a 2000 year old dead jew whose flesh and blood you eat and drink. Think about this and then try to tell us again what makes us wrong in thinking you're totally and absolultely insane.
If anybody here has Photoshop skills and is looking for a project, may I humbly request an image of the great Kong atop the Empire State Building, besieged by biplanes piloted by Donohue and Ratzinger, tenderly clutching a Kommunion Kracker?
Hey, I just remembered this - I once was given two communion wafers because people were supposed to dunk them into the wine first, and I didn't - I just munched it and then looked around for those lil' glasses of Mogen David that they used to use. So they gave me another one to dunk.
That's what happens when an athey takes communion for the sake of other people in the room (because I was trying not to, ahem, embarrass alleged athies like Ron in Houston).
I used to hear insults against transubstantiation all the time from other Christians who believed only in transubstitution.
Ron in Houston, you just insulted those Christians! For shame! (Maybe you should just draw your curtains and go to bed. I hope you haven't killed any insects in your life - an insult to Buddhists and Jains, you know.)
If anybody here has Photoshop skills and is looking for a project, may I humbly request an image of the great Kong atop the Empire State Building, besieged by biplanes piloted by Donohue and Ratzinger, tenderly clutching a Kommunion Kracker?
Please include the rapist racketeer Bernard Law.
@Kobra - the Catholic church does actively protect and defend child molesters in their ranks. So "global paedophile ring" is not so bad a description.
@Ron - I'm inclined to think of all this "desecration" stuff as pretty childish, but did you notice the reaction? Death threats, vilification of our community? As satire, it works. My opinion is that it would be juvenile if there was no point (lots of groups of silly rituals, why interfere with them?), but the Catholic League has clearly demonstrated that there is: to demonstrate that they don't make a distinction between harming a cracker and violence against actual people.
I can't help but note, after more than 3000 posts, that not ONE person claiming themselves to be Catholic has actually even remotely attempted to make a logical argument supporting transubstantiation of a cracker.
not one.
just a bunch of misplaced concern trolling, misplaced anger, and misplaced persecution fantasies.
evidently, the only rational catholics have already realized the pointlessness of trying to defend both the irrational beliefs, and the irrational responses to them by people claiming to be catholics.
again, I post the only remotely sane response from a Catholic I noted in any of the threads:
we need you PZ. dont let catholics or republicans or university presidents or anyone else stop the blogs. And please ask your president to send police protection to your house. no kidding.
correction to #513:
and the irrational responses to [having] them [challenged] by people claiming to be catholics.
I'm going to have a lovely LARGE devout Catholic family.
Posted by: Amy
Amy, are you able to predict the future? True, you may give birth to many children. You may try to raise them to believe as you do. But that does not mean that all of your future children will follow you.
If you know what these future people will be, you are blessed with an ability that the rest of us lack. Just where did you acquire this ability? I doubt it is from your god.
Now what is the traditional way for the church to handle women who have ungodly talents?
I hope Donohue keeps wandering around Minneapolis looking for the convention, because if he ever finds his way to St. Paul, someone who is offended that he cannot tell the difference between the two may help him learn the difference, in a good St. Paul Irish Catholic way, of course.
Damn! I was ready to kidnap another Catholic wafer, and was planning to hold it hostage and threaten to step on it at the Republican National Convention in the Twin Cities, unless I obtained my global domination demands. They must have found out somehow.
The problem, Amy, is that you believe in "sin." We don't. Sin is a religious concept in that you have acted against God or his commandments.
Since we believe in no God and do not recognize your religions commandments, like stoning disobedient children, or gays, or any others to death beyond how similar concepts are enshrined within secular law and tend to arise in every civilization, regardless of religious heritage (making them not the exclusive province of your beliefs, no matter how delusional you are about them) we, literally, cannot "sin" from a religious perspective.
We can commit crimes. We can mock fools, such as yourself and the concern-troll-Ron, who seem to think their way is "the only way" and seek to bully and bludgeon and shame others into submission without presenting even the slightest rational argument.
A tactic that, frankly, doesn't work well here. Rather, you need to have some grasp of the issue. Marshall your facts. Make some type of argument based on these facts.
I sooooooooo wish there were Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence in the Twin Cities. Wouldn't the Larry Craig airport stall be a great space for communion performance art?!?!
Wouldn't the Larry Craig airport stall be a great space for communion performance art?!?!
now THAT is a picture worth visualizing.
This has got to be the funniest thing I've read in a while.
What's the extra security for? In case the Catholics decide to bring their Eucharist crackers along? Can't have those kidnapped can we.
What's sick is that some think that crackers are more important than humans and express that through death threats!
Just insane!
But that does not mean that all of your future children will follow you.
it depends on how much psychological and physical torture she is willing to utilize to make sure all her progeny will be "safe" from an eternity in hell...
Just insane!
*bing*
It is a sin to blaspheme our God and defame a Holy religion
spoken like a good little Islamic extremist.
oh wait, you say you're Catholic?
so hard to tell the difference between one idiotic extremist and another.
Amy, if you're still reading these comments (although, I wouldn't blame you if you weren't), I'd love if you emailed me at parijata@uchicago.edu. I'm not going to harass you for your faith; I'm genuinely curious about what you've got to say. Call me crazy, but I've always had a soft spot for Catholics -- my mother was one. Also, Catholic theology is the only Christian kind that attempts to make sense. I doubt you'd actually email me, and I'm probably going to get trolled by my dear fellow atheists (I know how you think, you sinful Pharygulites :-P), but I'm in a friendly mood, and I'd love to chat.
This is not really so mysterious; it's projection, plain and simple. Until recently, their tradition was to respond to offense with violence but this pluralistic society made them stop. Since they'd like to do something nasty they can't imagine only wanting to ridicule and satirize.
To any Catholics reading; violence is your shtick, and oppression too. And don't say it isn't anymore: your church has on its hands the blood of millions of AIDS victims, the hopeless social isolation of gays, the enslavement of women giving birth again and again until their bodies give out and their children die of starvation, the dark hole of poverty in remote villages while your holy man lives in a palatial art gallery. Will you fix all that stuff if we promise to always respect your cracker?
Gosh! I always wanted to be an ilk...or maybe it was a moose. In any case, I'm ever so honored.
Don't you people ever take a break for important things?
Like drinking?
:)
Wait. You're saying there actually IS a difference?!?!?
"King Kong Theory of Creation"
I am *so* stealing that. :-)
I haven't read all (or any of the) 529 previous comments but maybe the additional security is to keep the Catholics in lest they commit the acts of violence they've threatened.
The article says "can worship without fear of violence". It doesn't say who they expect to perpetrate said violence.
Our batshit crazy friend Bill is a fervent advocate of free speech, as long as you agree with him. Otherwise, he'd cheerfully, I'm sure, set a pack of Jesuit priests loose to track you down and play inquisition with you. I'll bet Bill sleeps with a life-like doll of Cardinal Torquemada . . . . .
Can this possibly get more insane?
At times, I despair of Prof. Myers's naiveté... Hasn't anyone told him that questions of that sort are taken as a personal challenge by trickster gods of every pantheon?
On finally prying myself loose from the continuing Mass-Cracker Massacre, I dropped in at Panda's Thumb, only to see the latest John Freshwater news.
So of course I had to rush back here to ask whether anyone knows of a person so vile and twisted as to burn a cross onto a cracker with an electrostatic device, in the presence of schoolchildren?
Answering PZ's question, yes, this can get more insane. I know it is unbelievable, but... believe it.
Wait. You're saying there actually IS a difference?!?!?
of course there is!
their dusty goatherder tomes have different titles, and the names are changed to protect the innocent...
plus, they wear different hats.
that's important.
Don't you people ever take a break for important things?
Like drinking?
excellent point.
cheers
ERV wins this thread at #4. Game over.
Wow, what a firestorm of comments from these threads! If there is one thing I learned from the responses on these blogs, its that I will make a greater effort to have respect another's beliefs, no matter how ridiculous they may seem to me.
It is commendable for PZ to protest the actions of the UCF and Catholic Church against WC. However, what PZ proposes goes beyond merely protesting, it is an outright declaration of war, and the Catholic League is happy to oblige. I'm not sure what good will be accomplished here. These are not the actions of reason. My recommendation is, don't do it, it's a bad idea. You're an intelligent individual, and supposedly tolerant and rational - surely you can think of more positive ways of protesting. A famous Jedi once said "Don't give in to hate, that path leads to the dark side."
The request need for added security to protect Catholics at the Republican Convention is laughable, I'd be far more concerned for PZ. One more bit of advice for PZ...keep your distance from the Republican Convention.
Did he nod? Do we rise up now? I didn't see, I was too busy stealing crackers. Did someone see him nod?
WTF?!?
You really did a number on these good and godly, death-threat-spewing folks, PZ. I wonder if Bill Donohue will sleep with the lights on and an altar boy in his lap to help him make it through this torturous night.
I mean, there's crazy, and then there's Catholic Crayzeeee!
Ron in Houston- I'm impressed. You actually lasted out 500 comments before dropping the bomb and making it clear what a pathetic little twat you really are.
At least it was more entertaining than reading yet another reformulation of the same stupid non-point. Thanks for playing!
Amy- I will be praying to Joe Pesci for you. It truly pains my heart to see someone so enamored of useless bullshit. Maybe he will stop by slap some sense into you, and help you work out your sad death-cult dependency issues. Best wishes!
How to desecrate a wafer, while showing complete respect:
First, obtain two communion wafers, one consecrated, the other one not.
Switch them around a few times, so you can't tell which one is which.
Then invite Mr. Donohue, and perhaps a priest, over to determine which one is which.
They won't be able to. There's no difference between the two, and this experiment proves it.
And there you are; desecration complete. You could even give both wafers, untouched, to Mr. Donohue; for your spiritual point will be proven.
This is becoming absurd.
The the next thing we know, the FDA will be forced to put warning labels on cracker boxes. They'll probably look something like this;
WARNING!
This Product Has Been Known To Cause Temporary Insanity.
Use With Caution.
I for one stand ready to devour flesh at your command, PZ! Christians have got to be low in carbs. Did you ever see a fat circus lion?
For the swwwarrrrm.
They have it all wrong. The *real* nemesis of the Catholic Church is the Cookie Monster.
Nom nom nom.
A commenter named Thursday at Vive Christus Rex, who claims to have witnessed the incident says:
(and it goes on like that) I have tried responding on that thread a couple times, in a respectful way, but neither comment has made it through moderation. So I'll post the answer here: It may well be the body of Christ, who came to save the world and all that, but not a shred of evidence exists to that effect. And precious little that Jesus' actual body ever existed either. When you believe in something that cannot be demonstrated let alone proven, don't be shocked if others fail to take it as seriously as you do. That time in history passed a long while back.
PZ - There will be a Darth Vader constume waiting for you at Manuels. And yes (exasperated)....a light saber too.
JC
Insane indeed! One definition of insane is "utterly senseless". Many brights above say this "Cracker Caper" makes no "sense". It is nonSENSE. Think about it. The entire Enlightenment was and is an intellectual battle over the issue of trusting our own friggin' senses of sight,hearing,smell,taste,touch rather than trusting brute authority of priest and king. Science,reason and critical thinking all say we must bow instead to fact and sense. We say faith also must bow to fact or it is insane faith,senseless faith. To live in a world where authority, instead of fact and experience, tells us a cracker is not a cracker while at the same time our own senses tell us it indeed is a cracker is by definition to be without any SENSE. Might as well be blind,deaf,nose-less,tongue-less,and full-body numb and then run off to umpire a baseball game!(Some of those umps need a little Enlightenment too!) The old pre-enlightenment worldview is insane and senseless by definition. It is a Witchdoctorville in which even witches are not safe. There could be no more apt "symbol" of this basic conflict over what is in fact REAL, there could be no more painful nerve spot touching on the core conflict between the Dark Ages and the Enlightenment than the senseLESS doctrine of Transubtantiation of crackers into the body of God. Insanity says what you see is NOT what you get. Sanity says, "Screw that, big guy, what I see is INDEED what I get!" Two opposite worldviews, two conflicting paradigms( both insane to one another by the way) war here to define the one reality in which we must live together. Only one reality can be true unless there be two realities which is a logical impossiblity by the rational law of identity. Each one thing has one and only one identity or no one thing has any logical identity at all. This is another definition of insanity "seeing multiple realities". I say ,and I stand with all others who say,"If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and tastes like a duck, AND craps like a duck is NOT a friggin CHICKEN. To call it a chicken makes no SENSE and is insane (utterly sense-less)!!!!. Still doubt this? Go in any preschool and hold up a cracker and ask a three year kid , "What do I have in my hand Suzie?" That brilliant child will tell anyone with a big smile on her face that it is a...... cracker. It takes a great deal of indoctrination and peer pressure and threat of bodily harm (here and hereafter) to take that simple truth away from the child. How very sad that this indoctrination can be done and is done every day in our world. I for one am glad to see that some of you good teacher folk are a bit upset at the way such little students are being treated. It seems we have learned now that the Biblical admonition "Except you become as a little child" can be taken to mean more than one thing!! What is the SIMPLE truth? If the kid says a cracker is a cracker and a HUGE worldwide institution says it is NOT a cracker those who are enlightened, those who care about the simple truth, those who fight for what is true, and then teach others the truth, and go on to teach others to care for what is true- these "truth teachers" will go with the little kid into a brighter tomorrow. Those who are insane and senseless will go bumbling and blinded on a "trip" back into the Dark Ages where their life and their "reality" are full of of violence, prejudice,and nonsense. Some have chosen the truth as their authority and are enlightened. Others, more primitive ones, have chosen authority for their truth and are in the dark. Who would ever have ever guessed that it would take a "Cracker Caper" to bring all this "sense vs. nonsense" into the LIGHT of truth where even a simple cracker may be examined for what it really IS and also for what it is NOT.
We can all pray this is the beginning of the end for the catholic faith.
Maybe we will see it, if we dont die from an attack of Daa_Stupid
PZ for president!!
Amy (Comment #407):
Yes. There are descriptive statements with determinate truth values whether a deity exists or not.
One can consider something to be wrong without reference to gods. Lying diminishes trust and thereby undermines social relations. It can be used to manipulate people and reduce their ability to make informed decisions. Do you really need a god to tell you that this is undesirable?
So ... someone disapproves of lying, which happens to be forbidden by one out of the ten commandments. From this you deduce that said person believes in all ten of them. Does one really need to point out the fallacy here?
An unkind person might note the irony of this in the light of the rib-tickling ignorance displayed in your own posts.
Oh, and from #402:
As wrong as wrong can be. Truth is not a gut feeling. It's something you work out with your brain.
To Ron from Houston and all the other concern trolls, fuck off, we are sick to death of kowtowing to the religidiots and where exactly has it got us. This has probably done more to show up the demented fuckwit that is Donowhore and the catholic league as well as his fellow crazies, who are little better than the muslims who protested the cartoons, better than anything else could. PZ, I salute you as one of your ilk and stay safe.
He should go in some sort of ultra-scary outfit then. Did he get one of those tentacle arms in the end? Or even the squiddly baby hat?
I need about 10mb of space to upload a large image (6450x8100) of you-know-who made up of you-know-what for public consumption. Can anyone help?
Thanks.
Preview at (bandwidth limited) http://geocities.com/pzcrackerman/
Also on flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24218589@N03/2661293123/#preview
O.K. I have never even read this blog before, but whatever movement you are leading PZ, I'm ready to sign up.
The people freaking out over their magic crackers vote and create policy...that's scary.
It's about time for rationalisim to rule.
If they want their convention in St.Paul, I say let'em have it. If I can help it, I'm gonna be out of town or as nowhere near any of that Republican crap as I can as I actually have to live here!
If only the Democrats had picked first and picked us. Tis would be much, much, much, much better. Much better.
I, a devout Catholic, will pray for all of your souls.
This may come as a shock to you Amy, but I know quite a few adherents of a different superstitious franchise who are convinced that because you are a papist, you are damned to hell yourself.
Gosh, with so many superstitions to choose from, how can I possibly win Pascal's wager?
Oh, I know.. I'll go with fact and logic. Have a nice day.
-jcr
#512:
I know it's not wrong or entirely inaccurate, but it sounds a little presumptuous. It isn't really that presumptuous, but it sounds like it is.
SOYLENT WHITE IS PEOPLE!
Do you suppose they are so sensitive about calling them "crackers" because of the cannibalism aspect? (think about it...)
RE: #546 -
That ain't me.
You Tube Eucharist
Challenge with: Wild Bill "Don" O'Heuwwe
Re: "... I think Iowa would be my backyard, while Canada is my front yard."
Well... it could be they fear that you have insane screaming hordes of maple-suckin' puck-slappers at your beck-and-call.
I am so, so, SO very glad that I left the Catholic church YEARS ago. What's sad is that I know some very nice, moderate, educated Catholics who are educated and firmly support the scientific theory of evolution, who understand that human life and suffering is far more important than a cracker, who vote to support gay rights, and so on. I don't know why they still cling to the Catholic Church, but that's their choice. I think more and more of the sane ones are leaving it.
But really now, all of these religions espousing violence for the dumbest little things... does religion make a person insane? Really.
Religion does give people some delusions they didn't already have and insists on them believing them utterly - which sets them up for mental instability. It also reinforces some delusions and immoralities and bad attitudes which they did already have (seeing and hearing things are given false meaning, homophobia and misogyny are reinforced, being "childishly" unthinking and ignorant and authoritarian is praised). So religion would also tend to selectively attract insane people (having various mild to major forms of "insanity" which might not be classified as such by some definitions).
However, some religions also act against some delusions which aren't compatible with the religion - forcing the flock to conform to the approved subset and drop deviant behaviours. Many religions also have the huge benefit of forcing people to attend and thus "socialise" (to a greater or lesser extent), which can help restrain some people who would otherwise go mad alone.
So anyone trying to quantify and qualify the insanities induced or supported by religion would have to be very careful over patient histories and not lump all sorts of different insanities in together when the religion distinguishes between them. Failure to do that would mask one effect with another of opposite direction.
There was research into the mental illness of JWs.
I got a link to your site from somebody criticizing you and I'm very glad I did. After poking around your blog for the better part of a morning I've learned a lot, laughed a bit, and found many reasons to keep coming back. Thanks!
At first, I thought the whole desecrating the Eucharist thing was a little foolish, but now I'm thinking you may be onto something. St. Boniface converted the pagans by chopping down the oak of Thor. When he wasn't instantly struck by lightening the pagans gave up their old Gods. Perhaps others will be convinced of God's absence after absolutely nothing happens to you.
In response to #564 where Mijan wonders why so many moderate well educated people stay Catholic. I'd like to think that I fall into that category and I have a lot of similar friends. For me its because I like the community and cultural aspect. I'm about as sure as one can be that God doesn't exist, but I still like going to church on Sunday. Does that make me an idiot? Probably. But the Catholic Church has been good to me. Most importantly, it was my Catholic education that opened my eyes to so many things and started me on my path of learning. For that I am grateful.
The Eucharist wafer must be respected!!
Do you not realize what a stack of two or three wafers will impel a hungry Altar Boy to do?
Add to this the Australian law that went into effect special for the "Popathon" being held in Sydney this week, making persons "annoying or inconveniencing" Catholics subject to a $5500 fine, and one becomes convinced that the entire world has gone way beyond mad. It has brought out the creativity in people designing T-shirts to be worn this week in hopes of being "annoying". "Taking the piss" is the Aussie WAY! Slogans like "Pope Go Homo" and "The Pope Is Wrong - Put a Condom On" will be splashed across protesters' T-shirts during next week's World Youth Day (WYD). Ah to be in Sydney for the "annoying of the Pope......."
For me, the bottom line issue is:
where was all the outrage from Catholics when the depth of appaling molestation of young boys was revealed?
But can PZ "rend fortifications as the rushing passage of time consumes cheap cloth"?
Dear Brave Dr. Myers,
Please let me know when you plan to desecrate the Koran, being that it also is "just a book", and you are now on this crusade to show the religious that what they revere has no meaning or sacredness. Don't let us down like Lewis Black in his new anti-regligion book that hardly mentioned Islam, or like Bill Maher and the late George Carlin does/did in their usual "kid gloves" treatment of the religion of Peace. I'd hate to think that there is a pattern amongst us brave athiets of only attacking the religions that don't cut off heads or fly planes into buildings.
and P.S. --I agree that you don't have to take these recent death threats seriously--the unfortunate side effect of your future Koran desecration is that you will have to take those death threats VERY seriously.
Posted by: gerry salvatore | July 15, 2008 1:14 PM
Another fuckwit blowhard who's never been to the site and wetting his pants over the islamic hordes.
Hoo boy.
Scientists, atheists, agnostics and moderate Christians are branded as terrorists and insurgents.
Great day to be alive, eh?
This is sort of related; it involves a religion;
Jul 13, 11:09 PM EDT
Mormon missionary calendar-maker excommunicated
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SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- The creator of a calendar that featured shirtless Mormon missionaries was excommunicated Sunday after a disciplinary meeting with local church leaders in Las Vegas.
Chad Hardy said he bears no ill will toward the council of elders from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
"I felt like I spoke my truth," the 31-year-old entertainment entrepreneur said. "Bottom-line, they still felt the calendar is inappropriate and not the image that the church wants to have."
"Men on a Mission," which has sold nearly 10,000 copies at $14.99 each, included pictures of 12 returned missionaries wearing black slacks, but not their trademark white shirts, in modest poses. The men also were photographed in traditional missionary garb and share their religious beliefs in biographical sketches.
Some of the 12 models have also been called to disciplinary meetings, but none were punished.
"I have no ill feelings toward any of those people," Hardy said of the church council. "They did what they believed was right and I really do feel it was the best decision for both of us."
Frank E. Davie, the senior leader over a group of Mormon congregations in the Las Vegas area, confirmed the 12-member council's decision in a telephone call to The Associated Press. He declined further comment.
Hardy said the purpose of the 2008 calendar was not to tear down the church or its 13 million members.
"The project is about stepping outside the stereotypes and stepping outside of the image," Hardy said. "Not everybody fits the image and I let them know we're not trying to portray an image for the entire church."
An excommunicated person is removed from official church rolls, but are still welcome at church services. Excommunicated members are prohibited from receiving the sacrament and can't perform church callings such as teaching or preaching during meetings. They also cannot enter church temples.
---
On the Net:
http://www.lds.net
http://www.mormonsexposed.com
"As True Christians™, we are called upon to marginalize other faiths, or people with no faith, and to scream persecution when they rudely return the favor." -- Pastor Deacon Fred, Landover Baptist Church
Truer words were never spoken.