The ever-hilarious Ray Comfort will be on radio station WDAY shortly, at 10am Central — tune in and leave your rebuttals, humorous sneers, brutal put-downs, and random comments here. I'll be on the same station, same time tomorrow.
Question: Explain what intelligent design is?
Answer: Everything is intelligently designed, it didn't happen by accident. Explosions don't produce order, they produce chaos. When he became a Christian, he claims he couldn't find evidence to back up evolution. No species-to-species transitions in the fossil record.
He actually says this: Dogs do not have chickens. Chickens don't lay eggs with puppies in them. This is apparently evidence against evolution.
Karen calls in with the Galileo issue: equates Comfort to an inquisitor. Comfort uses this to disavow Catholicism, and says "don't blame Christians" for the Catholics. Weird.
Alex calls to ask what motivation scientists have for promoting evolution. Two answers: Morality. It lets them lust and sin at will. Money. You can get rich for just finding a bone.
Caller whose name I missed: animals have morality, and since there is no evidence for ID it shouldn't be taught, but could be debated.
Answer: Dogs feel guilt. Claims there is proof for ID, which is, for every creation, there must be a creator. Paintings have a painter, etc.
Evolutionists claim there was nothing that created something, which is scientifically ludicrous.
John rambles on about how most people believe in god, so he doesn't understand why there is a debate. No answer.
Another caller (Poe?) suggests that maybe astrology should be taught in astronomy, Atlantis in geology. Comfort replies by claiming that evolutionists are advocating censorship. Announcer brings up Expelled — complains that there was no evidence presented in the movie. Comfort claims that just showing the complexities of the cell is proof. The fact that people don't fall off the earth is evidence for intelligent design?
Jason brings up the uncaused cause argument: if you've got one (god), why can't there be more than one? Usual avoidance: god is eternal. Bleh. Agrees that other people invent gods, but his god is real.
Derek argues that the fairy-tale perfection of christian religious belief is unbelievable. Morality comes from events on earth.
Announcer asks about the banana argument. Comfort disavows it, claims that it was evolutionists taking it out of context to make him look bad.
A caller asks about Satan…we get biblical babble in reply.
Announcer is skeptical about both sides. Comfort uses this as an excuse to trot out his tired "everyone is a sinner" argument and that you need to read the ten commandments. He's just preaching at this point.
Cal calls in to promote Answers in Genesis. Phbbththbht. YEC idiot.
Carol is a paleontology student. She points out that they do not do it for the money, and that it's because they love the work.
Sign out at 10:40am.
That was truly awful. Comfort is a real ignoramus. However, I can see now why they decided not to do a debate: they really gave a lot of air time to callers, which is good, I think. If I'd been on at the same time, they wouldn't have been heard over my snarling and bone-cracking and horrible slurping noises, and Comfort's screams.
Ray flat out lied when he claimed that atheists misrepresented his banana argument by removing it from the context of his coke can analogy. Not true. Here's the whole thing, both the coke can and the banana story, and it doesn't help him: both parts are incredibly stupid.
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A friendly reminder to turn all irony meters and bullshit detectors to the lowest sensitivity, lest they be vaporized.
Let the pwnage by proxy begin!
The two hosts are already mangling things. Ray will be on in 15 mins.
Although one host thought that Expelled failed.
Firefox keeps unexpectedly shutting down on me everytime I open the station, do I need to install IE?
Do we know yet if it's going to be archived? I can't listen this morning and I won't be able tomorrow either, but I don't want to miss this.
Arrrrggh! I can't get the thing to work. *pout, again*
Yes, they said it would be archived and available about an hour after the show ends.
Gah, their stupid flash player doesn't work. D:
It works on Safari. When you get the pop-up window, you have to click on "Listen live:" to actually get the playback.
They've already mentioned that "Atheisit's nightmare" the bannana...this is not a good sign.
Brian
Something must be wrong with my intertubes.
Sounds like these guys are going to be anything but easy on him.
Feel free to posts questions for Mr. Comfort, we are watching this thread and will try to get any questions asked here on air.
EM
Producer, Ben and Jim in the Morning
Whoa. You guys are like ninjas!
But ask Comfort why he is STILL using the banana argument. It's been debunked a thousand times by showing that the fruit has been domesticated over thousands of years.
I thought this would be a debate with you both on at the same time. Without that kind of interaction its rather easy for a kook like Comfort to sound close to reasonable to an uninformed listener. I'm a bit disappointed.
Does not work for me either, IE or FF.
Oh, good, I woke up and couldn't get back to sleep. This should help. Mmm, Ray Comfortable. He should be a plushie. Yeah, I should sleep. :(
Working in FF3 but it took a few attempts.
Stream initially did not work for me on Firefox but after clicking "Listen Live" in the pop-up window, it now works fine.
Works fine for me, using Firefox 3.0.1 -- loud and clear!
"Tell us what Intel. Design is?" This should be awesome. (My hometown, too.)
No official "quote"
Right Ray! No theory of ID
Holy shit Ray got somethign right to start off.
And then fails miserably.
I NO CAN HAZ RAY ON RADEO
Lightning striking a mud puddle straw man... again.
Ad populum already? 87% of Americans believe...
..an explosion made a mud puddle that made life? Within the first two seconds I listened to it too...
"Evolution is a fairy tale for grownups."
-- Ray Comfort
EM:
Ask Ray why he continues to post cartoons to his blog that show a fundamental misunderstanding of transitional forms, despite the fact that it's been explained to him dozens of times, by me and others.
"Get ready for Comfort"
So why does that make me so uncomfortable?...
Boy Ray sure isn't helping ID stay non religious.
EM - here's a question for Ray:
If we humans were intelligently designed, why are there some basic mistakes. One example is the fact that we both breathe and drink through one tube (our throat), with the result that sometimes people choke to death when food gets into the windpipe. If God is so great, how come there are such simple design faults?
If I could ask a question of Ray, I'd like to see if he was aware of Dr. Richard Lenski's long-term E. Coli experiment and if he had an opinion on it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._coli_long-term_evolution_experiment
To make a long story short, it's a recent example of evolution being observed in a laboratory, where a beneficial mutation ocurred in a strain of E. Coli bacteria.
His explanation for ID is just what he thinks...he didn't give any evidence for WHY he believes in intelligent design. Just that he reckons someone created everything.
omg...Dogs don't have kittens...
Well, I'm convinced!
"Chicken eggs don't hatch puppies."
Jesus F'n Christ!
... he refuses to concede that dogs can't see colours...
well he has already mixed up the big bang with evolution.
Next, grouch, grouch, grouch science is not unchanging.
He is dumb.
EM ask Ray about the Crockoduck.
Ray - Aren't ring species clear observable proof of one species transitioning gradually into another?
So dogs aren't colour-blind?!?!
Evolution is wrong because horses don't set up law courts??!?!
Ray Comfort, you are utterly insane.
Dogs do not have kittens. Brilliant!
What is the evidence for ID? What evidence would you accept that would disprove your ID hypothesis? Or are you just going to bash evolution with bad arguments? What makes ID science?
Way to go Karen!
"I don't think we're animals."
Question for Comfort: Are we plants?
Galileo wasn't tortured - he was only imprisoned! Get over it, bi-yotches! lmao
Teach the Controversy... blah blah
Ray is hitting some ID points and undercutting others.
Love it.
So far the hosts seem to be doing good at pushing Comfort back toward rational debate. I'm not certain Comfort enjoys that, but he's definately ignoring it.
This is already going to shit...the change in format was a huge mistake. The host is utterly incapable of challenging Comfort's points. Ray is presenting a strawman view of evolution.
But the host is a bigger twit than Ray: In trying to play the devil's advocate against Comfort, the host makes the argument that if dogs can't see colors, maybe humans can't fully understand evolution, since we all have limits, which could be why humans can't find the "gaps" in evolutionary theory.
PZ, get on the flippin' phone!
Somebody needs to ask Comfort why he even expects to see transitional forms in the fossil record, if he thinks that evolution proceeds by "dogs giving birth to chickens"?
Is it too much to ask that creationists even try to be consistent about their own batcrap-crazy views?
"That was Catholics doing all of that! Don't blame that on Christians!"
WTF mates? I thought that Catholics WERE Christian.
Straight up anti-Catholicism (refusing to acknowledge they are Christians) to avoid actually answering a question.
He said fornicate. Drink!
Can you follow up on my question about scientists lying?
In Christianity, don't you get FORGIVEN for lusting, murdering, etc.? Isn't that a better cop out of morality than evolution?!
For EM,
Continuing with the design issues: why do humans have tailbones?
Nice one Alex.
Palaeontology is one of the worst funded areas of science.
From your comments this must be a scream. ;)
RC: Scientists only believe in evolution b/c (1) it lets us fornicate w/o fear of retribution, (2) it leads to fame and fortune.
Me: What an idiot!
Wow, okay, not gonna help me sleep, between my laughing at him, his arguments(?) that make me go WTF?! (chickens laying puppy-eggs?! WTF?!), and his suggestion that taking a rapist/murderer to court is part of our "moral compass." Does he not see the irony there?
Also, I thought he was a cdesign proponentist, not a creationist. It really makes me wonder what the difference is. e_e;; Bleh, clicking close tab now...
Here comes the watchmaker argument
Now I wish PZ was debating today. I had no idea Comfort was this stupid.
"Dogs do not have chickens. Chickens don't lay eggs with puppies in them. This is apparently evidence against evolution."
LOL. Virgins don't give birth to baby gods. Is that evidence against Christianity?
Painting->painter, building->builder, creation->creator... bull->shit
Listening to it now, This is hilarious! It wouldn't be if he was just gonna go on and on and never be refuted. . Can't wait for tomorrow's stream either.
Yes btw love the (Catholics went off and killed people in the crusades and the inquisition but humans are moral because they set up court systems. . . )
EEr
This is painful. I tuned in around the time he was saying that humans are superior to animals, because cats, dogs and horses don't have courts. Did I hear that correctly? Yeah, "animals don't have morals"...But "dogs do have a sense of guilt"! Yay! But they don't set up court systems. Aww :(
Painting! Painter! Brain droppings! Building! Builder!
"Could you make me a cow?"
I think I should quit now.
Ooops, spoke too soon. There is NO debate between creationists and scientists. There is science and ignorance.
Right...as a paleontologist, I've just got all kinds of cash rolling in over this new dinosaur I'm describing...
Question for Ben and Jim to ask Ray:
"Can you explain where the term "cdesign proponentsists" came from, and why?"
It's from the Dover 2005 trial - it's a "transitional form" that happened when the publisher of a creationist "biology" "textbook" incompetently performed a block "find-and-replace," substituting "design proponent" for "creationist" withouthout changing anything else - in an attempt to bypass a US Supreme Court ruling against "creation science" by renaming it "intelligent design." See (for instance) http://www.pandasthumb.org/archives/2005/11/missing_link_cd.html
WHAAAT THE FUUUUUCK!
'Can you make a cow from nothing'.
Is Ray Comfort the stupidest man in America? I think so.
Why do creationists keep pointing out that miracles don't happen, then claim that this is evidence against evolution? Other way round, surely?
EM - Ask Comfort who designed the DESIGNER?!!!
Oh my god, this is infuriating.
One did lay an egg with a lizard in it, though.
Once again Raytard (apologies to Talkorigins' Raytard) is telling us that matters don't deviate from evolutionary expectations, and faulting evolution for it.
Any objections to actual evolutionary theory, Raytard?
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
I like how when asked about the persecution of Galileo, he said don't blame that on the Christians, blame that on the Catholic Church.
So Catholics aren't Christains?
Also while the research is nasceant, his assertion that nonhuman animals don't have morals is suspect. Some naturalists observe animals shunning or attacking animals that break certain rules, steal food and so on.
A friendly reminder to turn all irony meters and bullshit detectors to the lowest sensitivity, lest they be vaporized.
Try our new line of Comfort-standard(TM) industrial grade irony meters. 2-ga. internal wiring, 3x10^6:1 step-down transformers, military-grade ICs, massive dual-blade fast-trip circuit breakers and Safe-Shatter(TM) non-shrapnel-producing casings. Each unit is hand-assembled and burned in on a steady diet of AM radio and Bush administration 'We're turning the corner... really now, honest' press releases. Autoranging, and rated to 30 TeraHaggarts. Don't browse the web without one!
"We can't make cheese or butter."
What?
Ray: lets teach the controversy..
The Supreme Court: Um, that violates the constitution...
Why doesn't anyone mention that!!!
these arguments are stupid
RC: "You can't have a creation w/o a creator. . . . Evolutionists say that nothing created something."
EM - Ask Comfort who designed the DESIGNER?!!!
We can't make cheese? Bzuh? Oh more watchmakers...
I haven't started listening yet but I will soon. I just had to say I think it's hillarious he didn't want to do an actual debate with you...afraid you might destroy him? Thats what I am going with. What a wimp but I suppose if I had to debate PZ about religion like this and I was on the other end I would be scared too. (On the fact that there isn't a whole lot of evidence for me to come at him with) I pity dah foo.
The callers are almost as dumb as Comfort.
I like how when asked about the persecution of Galileo, he said don't blame that on the Christians, blame that on the Catholic Church.
So Catholics aren't Christains?
Also while the research is nasceant, his assertion that nonhuman animals don't have morals is suspect. Some naturalists observe animals shunning or attacking animals that break certain rules, steal food and so on.
Some "scientific" creationists employ straw man arguments; some argue using red herring arguments. Ray comfort employs more complex (and intelligently designed) argumentation: straw man red herrings -- compound fallacies to confound his adoring public -- and unfortunately, millions of the public will find his fallacious straw man red herrings persuasive against evolution and for "God did it."
Tomorrow PZ can hopefully untangle Comfort's pretzel (il)logic -- but alas, SO many fallacies, SO little air time...
Ow. My brain hurts.
I'm pretty impressed with Ben & Jim; these guys are eighty bazillion light-years ahead of anyone else I've ever heard on Christian broadcast radio in terms of cutting off Ray's Gish Gallop.
"We can't make milk..."
Actually, about half of the world's human population CAN make milk, under the right circumstances...
NICE Astrology and Astronomy.
Good caller!
wow - just wow
I had hoped to hear PZ put down the IDiocy, I hadn't expected Comfort to do such a spectacularly good job of making it sound laughable himself !
PZ, make a cow from nothing! This is really too fucking stoopid for words. My stomach is turning with the stupidity. Why is the moon so perfect? Huh? answer that one smarty. Go ahead try. Atlantis, flat earth. teach it in geography. Antonio I call Poe!
Ha! Commenter:
Teach biology and ID
Atlantis and Flat world in geography
astrology along with astronomy
Nutz'o
Er... Ray? Care to answer that question? FFS...
EM: You gave this guy an HOUR?
WHY are there so many retards in my hometown calling in? I had thought the city of Fargo might have been smarter then to go along with the beliefs of Comfort.
EM,
One more: Ask him to define evolution.
It might be a good starting point for Myers to correct misconceptions about what ToE really means.
Same Ray, different day.
He is not stupid, he is disingenuous and purposefully mischaracterizes science and what it reveals to us.
He has been shown time and time again that his arguments have no merit and yet he continues to knock down strawmen.
Pathetic.
Great caller: Teach the flat Earth "controversy" and astrology etc. too.
RC dodges the question.
I think that an important issue that PZ will have to cover for the radio audience is this whole "teach the controversy" line of argument. It's obviously getting far too much sympathy from the public.
Antonio was being snarky on purpose.
I'm pretty sure the last caller was being sarcastic.
More kudos to Jim for pointing out that Expelled was entirely an attack on evolution and not a positive argument for intelligent design.
I loved the bit about how scientists get rich and famous faking fossils.
LOL WALK AROUND UPSIDE DOWN.
Science be damned, this is getting crazy.
PZ, make a cow from nothing! This is really too fucking stoopid for words. My stomach is turning with the stupidity. Why is the moon so perfect? Huh? answer that one smarty. Go ahead try. Atlantis, flat earth. teach it in geography. Antonio I call Poe!
Can someone just ask what ID proves or explains?
Okay, so the caller who reckoned that because "most Americans believe in God", ID should be taught in schools... My head nearly exploded. Ffs...
Comfort claims he can't hear the question when he doesn't like the question.
He said Banana! He just loves his monkey food!
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Question for Ben and Jim to ask Ray:
"So is it actually creationist dogma that Catholics are not Christians?"
Wow! RC says that the fact that it's winter in New Zealand when it's summer up North requires an intelligent designer!!!
@#88-I have to think that was intended to get him to admit that he didn't believe in e.g. a 'flat earth' controversy...it could have been a good trap if pursued.
But no. Of course. Why even bother with questions if they won't be answered?
This sounds pretty fishy, after EM said specificallybefore that they'd be limited to 20 minutes.
Gosh, I hope this EM feller isn't just another Christianist-slanted jackass.
Why even ask question if he's not going to address them?
This is just painful to listen. The argument from design over and over and over again.
ALL aboard the Circular Reasoning train. Your conductor today is Mr. Ray Comfort.
Apparently, birds singing when you get up in the morning is proof of design. Also, apricots and peaches. Therefore, Jesus.
Ray - pineapple?
by the way, I was caller Antonio :P
Ha, bananas
Or, to put it another way, he's so incompetent he constructs strawmen he can't beat.
RC says the banana argument was just supposed to be a "parody." Of what, I wonder?
What we noticed about ID is that you can write a shit book and sell many thousands. Maybe not enough to get rich, but way more than most respectable books bring in.
Raytard, evolution isn't cosmology.
And yes, in classical science nothing creating something is scientifically ludicrous. Only creationism makes such claims in the classical realm.
Once again you kneecapped yourself with your points against creationism. Congratulations, I knew you could do it.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Comfort just invoked Satan.
ID is not about religion.
Wow. Ray Comfort just flat-out lied about the content of his own Way of the Master show about the "Banana argument."
EM: Have Jim ask Ray if he did, or did not, call the banana "the atheist's nightmare" on the Way of the Master TV show.
TardWatch(tm)
Time for a new website...
(.)(.)
Question for Ben and Jim to ask Ray:
"Are you aware of the 1987 US Supreme Court decision that said "creation science" can't be taught in public schools because it's religion?"
"Are you aware of the 2005 Federal Court decision that said intelligent design is religion and can't be taught in public schools?"
I knew that Ray would turn his ID argument into straight up creationist argument. There's no way he couldn't do it.
Remember folks - intelligent design has no religious basis.
@107
Yea, and he completely dodged the question!
This guy is seriously hurting my head. I'm contemplating going back to revision.
I feel sorry for the host's ex-wife, losing the fascination for the natural world.
"It's a legal transaction . . . God can now LEGALLY let you into heaven" [because of Jesus].
Can't take any more. Laughing too hard. Turning off broadcast.
OK. So Ben/Jim wants to know the truth about evolution or ID. RC's advice: know and follow the ten commandments and get to know Jesus. Somehow this is supposed to reveal the truth about biology . . .
Nope, I don't quite see it.
Yup, it's proof that the cell is complex.
Now tell us why that complexity reveals the patterns expected via evolutionary predictions. And why that complexity lacks a rational basis, or any evident purpose.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Oh lord, caller just plugged Ken Ham...I might throw up.
Why wants to "look at science from a biblical view"? They're incompatible. ARGH!
The truth about science. Why do evolutionists lie? Bitches and bling, baby!
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/7803/gouldfossilas7.png
AIG and ID.
I have a feeling somewhere Ken Ham and Bill Demsbki both just got a strange cold shiver.
Now Comfort is talking about the 10 commandants and Jesus.
"God created all these things."
A caller recommended answersingenesis.org "These are scientists with PhDs in biology."
The question I'd like asked is:
How does "God did it" (or any equivalent variation like "[supernatural] Intelligent Design") -- EVEN IF TRUE -- advance rather than halt scientific inquiry?
Someone!!! Please! Someone!!! Call!
ask...real...questions...
(I would but...must...work(and not in the country))
Oh! Paleontologist=good.
Pharyngulites! Call!
Yay! A Pharyngulite! :)
Probably
We must start with the premise that the bible is true.
Next stop on the circular reasoning express, Faithville!
PZ I hope you get 40 mins too.
Cactusren, that was you calling in just now as the palaeontologist eh? That was great. Even though Ray ignored it :roll eyes:
ok...so...that last caller really got my hopes up. Way to hang up on her shetbags.
I am dumber for listening. Thanks, PZ
If you want to know the truth, the first thing you do is bias yourself by adhering to the Ten Commandments and accepting God as real.
Wonderful.
What we have here is a mind that is the exact opposite of investigative.
May I mention my website.
NO!
Bwahahahaha!
Oh, and thank-you to the caller who pointed out that palaeontology (and science in general) is badly funded.
Question For Ray, who claims that just showing the complexities of the cell is proof.
Proof of WHAT? How can you PROVE that anything in creation is proof of Yahweh/Jehovah/Jesus versus proof of Odin/Wotan/Thor - or Jupiter/Zeus Pater, or Vishnu, or Ahura-Mazda, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster...?
Yup, that was me. I even seem to have gotten in the last word. SWEET!
That was absolutely horrible. It was like watching squirrels talking about quantum physics.
"Science that begins with the premise that the Bible is true," eh?
How does "starting with a premise" prove the premise to be true? Why start with an assumption? If the assumption is wrong, your premise is wrong. If you want to prove a premise, start without ANY assumptions.
This guy is so ludicrously stupid.
I can't take any more of it. I can feel my brain turning to mush as I listen. @_@
Well, PZ doesn't need advice from me, but I'll say again that I think the most important message to get across is that there is no scientific controversy over evolution, and that the "teach the controversy rhetoric" is a sham that will do nothing but hinder education.
well there's 20 minutes of my life i will never get back. Ray really lays the stupid on thick doesnt he?
Man, what a tool. Who knew stoopid could be burned and burned and burned?
At least squirrels talking about quantum physics would be more adorable than painful.
Bah. My connection dropped when they were going to explain the reason for the two shows.
Anyone care to recap?
PZ - Please, please, please, say stork theory needs to be taught in school too.
1.) Has Ray Comfort read any books on evolution written by evolutionists? Since one of the main complaints scientists make against Comfort is that he doesn't understand evolution, this is important. So which PRO-EVOLUTION books would Ray recommend, so that Christians can better understand the other side before they criticize it?
2.) What would be evidence against Creation? If you can't even think of anything, that means your "theory" is worthless. It only describes whatever happens.
PZ has an excellent opportunity to work from the ground up tomorrow. Addressing Comfort's points will be like answering children's misconceptions. That's a challenge, though. You have to simplify without being condescending.
The "everything that's created has a creator" is the dumbest shit-for-brains argument ever.
Nice one, and good timing. Although I think my ears are bleeding after hearing that interview.
Yay, paleontologist! Great comment!
But did the host take the fact that it will take "people like you" hundreds of years to figure EVERYTHING out as an argument against you? I think he did. I honestly cannot believe that people use the fact that religion gives quick answers as an argument for the truth of those answers! That strikes me as, well, insane!
BTW, why did you get 10 secs while the nut before you (who claimed that scientists are right to START by assuming the truth of the bible) was allowed to babble on for about 3 minutes?
I don't know if actually listening to it would be more fun than reading these comments.
man you guys are funny.
I didnt get to hear it. But I lived it vicariously through you.
Ah yes, I remember the first time a Southern Baptist explained to me the difference between Christians and Catholics. It had to do with the fact that Catholics use sources of authority other than the Bible.
I hope you will post a podcast....I couldn't listen to it at work...fun reading the comments, though
well there's 20 minutes of my life i will never get back. Ray really lays the stupid on thick doesnt he?
Probably, but it's obvious he refuses to understand them.
He did just finish a book of his own on Evolution. I want to get a copy but don't really want to pay for it.
Ray's response to the banana video thing: "That was taken way out of context!!"
LOL.
dtlocke:
I didn't take it that way- the host made comments that indicated he knew that science was a continuous process, and that cactusren is one small cog in the machine.
Exactly, the listeners aren't already defensive against an unknown caller, as many would be to Myers.
Also shows that it doesn't take an expert to make Comfort look like the idiot preacher that he is.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
I don't know how effective it would be in this forum, but it might be worth highlighting RC's claims about the sun and the seasons (e.g., winter in the south when summer in the north). Only someone who fails to understand what's going on would think this requires a miraculous designer.
Once you understand a bit about how things work, you see that it's perfectly natural -- nothing that requires a sky fairy. Evolution is a bit more difficult to understand, but it's basically the same situation. The only people who think it requires intelligent design are those who fail to understand what's going on . . . etc.
Well, that was terribly disappointing - on sooo many levels. The host is an imbecile, the guest: a moron. It actually sickens me - the gross level of irrational discourse that supposedly represents debate. There was not a single cogent argument made or challenged.
I certainly hope PZ is able to get past the nonsense and raise the bar tomorrow. In listening to the callers, however, I suspect it will be pointless. How can people be so deluded?
@161: I dunno...once I was on the phone, I kinda stopped paying attention to the drivel. I was just waiting to hear my name so I could make my comment. I would've liked to hear Comforts response to it. (Well, maybe not, as it would certainly have been nothing but more inanity.) And yeah, the "hundreds of years" comment was maybe not great, but at least the guy realizes that science is a process, and that its always evolving. (AAAGH! It's the "E" word!)
For that matter, PZ might ask whether RC wants the Intelligent Design Theory of the Seasons to be taught. "Teach the controversy!!" What does an ID explain? Nothing. It adds nothing to the scientific understanding, and cannot substitute for a scientific understanding.
Thank you all for listening, and for those of you who called. We are sorry we did not get to any of the questions posted here, or the questions emailed to us. We hope you listen in tomorrow when Dr. Myers is on the program. We will be giving him the same amount of time, and we hope to generate the same volume of callers.
Again, thank you, and if you have any specific questions you want Dr. Myers asked, feel free to email benandjim@wday.com, and I will compile a list for tomorrows interview (I wish I would have thought of that for Mr. Comfort's interview today).
Here is an MP3 of the Ray Comfort segment suitable for playing on media players:
http://www.mediafire.com/?mfmdtsstrm9
Get it while you can.
Does anyone else become incredibly irritate when they her him spouting his ridiculousness nonsense. And then callers say, ray I totally agree with you?!?!?!?!? oiegbefnbveafnbaoefbrfobqoe[m
I almost broke my foot when i kicked my computer desk because of his dumbfounding, blind ignorance. It is tearing my soul out.
Animals and morality:
There was a study done where a chimp's food bowl was rigged to a wire that shocked the next cage whenever food was taken out. The chimp almost starved itself to death to keep from shocking its neighbor. They understood that their eating caused the shocking so they didn't eat. Oh yeah, completely devoid of morality.
Can he seriously believe the shit that he says?
(I wish I would have thought of that for Mr. Comfort's interview today)
Um, yeah. :)
The kind of slurping noises you make when you drink Ray Comfort's milkshake?
"You can't make a grain of sand from nothing" (and variants)
Seems to be as much true of intelligent designers as natural processes. Demsbki and Comfort are "experts" in intelligent design, so maybe they can make a real physical cow from nothing by designing it with their (supernatural) minds.
(But who's to say that there was ever precisely nothing?)
Well I couldn't get it to work on my work computer, so, I will just have to wait till I get home but looking at the summary it seems his attempts were feeble and without effort childish and ammusing. I just hope I can figure it out by tomorrow because even if I miss Comforts BS I cannot miss what you have in store for him PZ! What a noob. From what it sounds like he didn't even prepare good lies to bring out on the table and you would have thought he would feel more free to do so since you weren't there to destroy him personally. I don't know why but this stuff is always exciting to me. Destruction of the IDiots one debate at a time!
Those complaining about the hosts are insane; this was a Christian radio program, and I think our side got far beyond the most fair treatment you could expect.
Wow, I don't envy PZ for having to clean up this gigantic mess tomorrow, though. Where to even begin?
Steve_h: Yeah, clarifying to Christians using the "first cause" argument that the Big Bang never says the universe was 'nothing is a pretty important first step.
As far as I know, no scientific theory suggests that the universe was ever 'nothing.' Only the Bible does that.
Ray doesn't like to look bad. He arranges things on his blog so he always comes out on top. Posts--especially those that critical of his behavior--are deleted, sometimes they appear later when it is clear that no one will look at them. If they do, he usually doesn't reply, he lets his acolytes do the heavy lifting.
When push comes to shove, then bearing false witness (one of the ten commandments he loves so dearly--if you tell a lie, then what does that make you?) about something as trivial as a banana is always an option. Out of context? The only thing that is out of context is the truth in his end justifies the means morality.
Behind that smile is a lot of meanness--just look at the cartoons the adorn his site. HIs enemies are all pointy-toothed fiends.
I only have one pointy tooth but that's from a climbing accident. Now the fiend thing. That I cop to.
Ray: "Explosions don't produce order; they produce chaos."
Okay, so... what happened in the aftermath of atom bomb tests in the desert? Sand melted and fused into glass. So, here we have molecules that were reconfigured into a more orderly pattern.
So, order came from an explosion.
Another feather for Ray's FAIL hat.
It sounds like listening to this Ray Comfort fellow might cost more brain cells than buck a beer night and not be nearly as enjoyable.
I picked up his book "God Doesn't Believe in Atheists" for a laugh and because it was being sold for $2 to raise money for scientific research (I love irony).
I haven't managed more than a few pages because the transparent illogic of his "arguments" leaves me reaching for the extra-strength aspirin.
Honestly, everything Comfort writes seems to boil down to "Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so..."
I stopped singing that song and believing what it said almost 30 years ago when I was 10, but I still like bananas - after all, human beings did breed/design them to be almost perfect for us.
To your point Andrew at 183:
"Unless someone can establish the limitations of the universe as a whole, it would be presumptuous to point to the cosmos and declare it incapable of existing without an external cause." Daniel Kolak and Raymond Martin, Wisdom Without Answers, (Belmont, CA: Wadsworth, 1998), p. 39
If you enjoyed that, maybe you'll enjoy Comfort's intellectual step-brother, Kirk Durston, who wants to get around the whole "Is God good?" debate by defining goodness like so:
I'll listen to the podcast!
At 10:00-10:30 AM Pacific time on KBOO.FM is an interview with Karen Armstrong on her book 'The Bible: A Biography' in which she reveals the truth about how the bible was written; etc. It probably won't be pure pooh, KBOO is quite anti-fundy.
Ah yes, Ray Comfort sexually assaulting a banana. Naturally he blames the victim and tells us it was asking for it, having a nonslip skin and a tab at the top. Pervert.
I just caught the last fifteensixteen or so minutes of this on the radio.
RC mentioned his web site www.livingwaters.com. Here's his atheism test, featuring the famous banana. The first bit, about the coke can forming spontaneously, is clearly a parody, but the parody ends there. He then says that we know the can was designed and the banana is even more so, with no hint of parody and goes on which his painting/painter,building/builder 'argument' which I heard on the radio. No mention of which bit was parody and which not.
want to watch the video but I find that I can't let it play past "Let me ask you a question". I want to see the stupidity but I just can't do it.
More like "Christians" are the non-Catholic part of Christianity. It has to do with the whole Pope thing. That's why "Christians" usually refer to Catholics as Papists. I think they object to the whole heirarchy of the RC Church and prefer to get their salvation directly from the source by shouting out "Jesus save me!" instead of having to go through all those bizarre rituals like Catholics do. "Christians" are emphasizing that they go directly to Christ and don't depend on any intermediaries like the Pope.
FWIW, I'm the caller that asked the one-god vs. multiple-gods question. As soon as I had asked it, I was disconnected. I'll assume that that's standard radio practice, but I was unable to object to Comfort's non-answer or to provide any follow-up.
EM #175:
I just sent an email to benandjim@wday.com. I recommended that PZ respond to Ray Comfort's claim that scientists want censorship in public high school biology classes. I also said "The evolution deniers are constantly saying 'Let's teach both sides and let the students decide which is right.' This is the problem I hope PZ talks about."
I would answer my question by saying religious ideas don't belong in public schools, and definitely not in a science class. I would add that there's no controversy in the scientific community about the basic facts of evolution, and it would be unfair to students to dishonestly say intelligent design creationism is a valid alternative.
I like the way Gould answered my question:
Creation science has not entered the curriculum for a reason so simple and so basic that we often forget to mention it: because it is false, and because good teachers understand exactly why it is false. What could be more destructive of that most fragile yet most precious commodity in our entire intellectual heritage -- good teaching -- than a bill forcing honorable teachers to sully their sacred trust by granting equal treatment to a doctrine not only known to be false, but calculated to undermine any general understanding of science as an enterprise?
-- Stephen Jay Gould
You'd be surprised how many non-Catholic Christians think this way. When my wife and I lived in Korea, our students frequently proudly claimed that, with 10% of the population professing Christianity, Korea was "the most Christian nation in Asia." When I asked them about the Philipines, the answer was invariably "oh, they're Catholic; we mean Christian."
Many Protestant Christians -- especially evangelicals -- consider Catholics idol-worhipping heretics, no more true Christians than Mormons or Unitarians are. That's the great irony of theism (and, I think, particularly of monotheism): Not only each religion, but even each denomination of each religion, can only truly be right if all the others are wrong.
A quick correction for those claiming WDAY Radio is a Christian station. We are a talk-news-sports ABC affiliate, NOT a Christian Network. I know it must be confusing, as when you visit the WDAY website you see ABC logos and links to our local newscasts, but rest assured, we are not a religious station. We attempt to provide equal time to all sides of every issue on Ben and Jim in the morning, which is why we are giving equal time to both Mr. Comfort and Dr. Myers. Thanks again for listening.
Okay, so maybe I'm a pervert, but points 7 & 8 are...titillating.
Wow. I actually feel dumber for having watched that video... =P
-Ed
This is the best description of Ray Comfort
http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Ray_Comfort
I cannot imagine how someone ca be SUCH an ignoramus as him- the stupid will explode someday in his head.
Kirk Cameron says:
The stupid!! IT BURNS US!!! If I ever become like that, please don't hesitate; "save" me from my dementia. You know what to do.
Right now I'm reading The Blind Watchmaker, and it's simply brilliant how accessible Richard makes the ideas behind the ToE. I highly recommend it, even if you have a good grasp on the ToE. I almost think I could explain it to a YEC; it's that simple.
Bad example. Glass is amorphous, sand is crystalline silicon dioxide.
Holy Crap! I tried to be polite. Convince me! I can't wait for tomorrow for the real story! I had to tread lightly. I didn't want this to be a religious debate. I want facts, not religious bull. Just because Ray Comfort has a limited science background, doesn't mean he gets to use caveman logic on us. A caveman couldn't imagine an airplane either. Is that intelligent design? Can you make an airplane out of a kitten? Jeez!
See you guys tomorrow. I'll try to watch this blog a little better too.
Uh, yeah, we wouldn't want any of that iron (and pretty much everything heavier than iron) from supernova explosions.
Make life live without the products of explosions, Raytard. You must be the greatest scientist, knowing how to keep us alive without iron, molybdenum, zinc, and iodine.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
A point of contention, Raynfala: most (all?) glass is amorphous, having no long-range organisation of its constituent molecules (such as crystals). That's why it doesn't cleave along regular planes. So it would not be the best example for your argument.
Plus, unlike its goody-two-shoes cousin quartz, glass has no morality.
I've just been listening to it instead of doing some work. He has a deep misunderstanding of evolution, although I do wonder if he's just messing about with these views to self-promote with bible bashers.
It's probably a good thing that PZ isn't arguing with him. It would be like swatting a fly with a sledgehammer.
Reginald at #189.
That's (roughly) a definition of "good" that we philosophers call "divine command theory", and have know to be false since Plato's Euthyphro. Note also that acceptance of this definition is why so many theists are unmoved by the argument from evil (they're thinking, "well, if that's the way God made the world, then that must be good, per my definition of good".) That's why, I think, it's a mistake to discuss the problem of evil without *first* exposing (ala Plato) the ridiculousness of divine command theory.
sand is crystalline silicon dioxide.
Sand is NOT crystalline silicon dioxide. Sand is a grain-size. Quartz sand is mostly crystalline silicon dioxide.
Sorry, don't mean to be a dick about this, but being precise matters in science. The curves of creationist bullshit and earth science converge on each other, so it's rather important that we make sure our ducks are in a row.
I notice one contradiction in that (just one? He wished! But let's not go astray here...) He says that animals have no morality. But, according to Christianity 101, "morality" is all about expecting a reward or avoiding a punishment. Animals can be trained to do that. Therefore, according to Christian principles, animals DO have morality.
Plus, unlike its goody-two-shoes cousin quartz, glass has no morality.
I dunno, man. Have you seen smoky quartz? You sure it's moral?
"Creation science has not entered the curriculum for a reason so simple and so basic that we often forget to mention it: because it is false, and because good teachers understand exactly why it is false." (Stephen Jay Gould)
Actually, the reason the courts have kept creationism out of science class is because it is religious, not because it is false. It isn't unconstitutional to teach pseudoscience in the public schools. It's simply unwise.
It would be interesting to ask Ray Comfort if he thinks that, if evolution is true, then that means there is no God, and Christianity is false. If push comes to shove and you can't buy Comfort's arguments, then give up Christianity. Would he come right out then and advise any Christian who studies the subject and comes to the conclusion that evolution did, in fact, occur, to get down on his knees, bow his head, clasp his hands, and renounce Jesus Christ as his Savior?
That is, of course, the dark implication of what he is saying. Dark according to his fellow Christians, of course. I don't know how they'd take it if he admitted it.
Dave at #169
Thanks, I think maybe you're right. I think I was just projecting this common tactic onto what I thought at the time was a christian radio host.
Kirk Cameron on the YouTube video says he was a "devout athiest."
WTH, how can anyone be a devout athiest when, if you don't believe in a god, there is nothing to devote yourself to?
"Okay, so... what happened in the aftermath of atom bomb tests in the desert? Sand melted and fused into glass. So, here we have molecules that were reconfigured into a more orderly pattern."
Aside from Brownian's clarification, your example is also quite circumstantial. What if an atom bomb explodes in air? Under water? Even if the glass effect in your example met the requirements Brownian listed, it would still be a matter of dlpace and time, and not an observed phenomena that occurs in all such scenarios.
To the Catholics VS Christians thing, I heard this when I still considered myself Catholic. It surprised me when a coworker at the time self-assuredly announced that Catholics weren't Christians. My reaction was to think "Um, sure. Whatever." I didn't pay it any real heed, and moved on...really far on, because I'm not religious anything anymore. But I have heard this in the past. I hadn't ever heard it until well into my adult life though, so maybe this is either some old meme Protestants have for Catholics that's reemerging, or it's a new tack that the former is trying on the latter to siphon off extra members. I don't know and now I could care that much less.
I don't see how Catholics can't be considered Christians though, since they recognize Jesus' (fairy tale) existence, and transubstantiation and all that...
Re "explosions"
The flaw is that the "Big Bang" was not an "explosion" as we understand them. The original concept of extrapolating the current expansion of the universe back to a "time zero" of infinite density has been supplanted by "inflation" which really masks what the density curve of the universe looks like at very distant times. It seems conceivable that the universe could have existed at a very high (but still finite) energy density for a very long time before suddenly inflating.
[Warning: EE about to present simpleminded cosmology analogy]
If we normalize the universe to a constant size over all time then before before "inflation" the energy of the universe was like a cloud in the atmosphere, a relatively uniform distribution of water vapor (energy). Inflation is like the cloud suddenly coalescing into raindrops (matter, galaxies etc.). Or consider a sphere with a small quantity of water in it. Heat the sphere until the water vaporizes. Now expand the sphere, which will cool the gas and cause the water vapor to condense into water droplets.
Okay, I know it is simplistic, it is just an analogy not in any way meant to be an actual model of the big bang inflationary theory of the origina of the universe.
mandydax@202:
I wholeheartedly agree. If I ever become that stupid, you have my full permission (no, my direct instruction) to take me down to the river, tell me about the rabbit farm, and blow my brains out.
And Brownian, blinded by science, lets Claudia's comment @ #199 go unnoted.
Sastra, you are correct, but I don't think SJG was referring to the courts' reasons, but to scientists' and teachers' reasons for keeping it out of the curriculum.
I'm going to invent a new term "plausible stupidity" Ray comfort is right on the edge of what Poe's law could allow for.
Any more insipid and it's likely that Comfort really doesn't advocate what he says
I've talked to quite a few creationists about this. Most of them believe evolution = no god. I tell them they're right. I noticed some pro-science people like to tell creationists they can accept both evolution and their sky fairy. The problem with this strategy is the creationists know the person is lying and doesn't really believe science and a magic man are compatible.
It's always best to be completely honest. That's why I tell creationists evolution is the greatest threat to their death cult. I tell them that's why Christians are constantly trying to suppress the teaching of evolution. I tell them Christians know evolution is killing their religion, and I tell them they're right. The choice for Christians is accept science and join the 21st century, or continue believing in god and live forever in the Dark Ages.
Of course the creationists are willing reject mountains of scientific evidence to continue living in their fantasy world. Nothing can change that. But at least when they attack science education, I can point out they're terrified that evolution proves there's no god, and that's the only reason they try to suppress education. I also point out attacking education is treason and they belong in prison.
Wow, Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort are two of the biggest douche bags I've ever let myself listen to. Their flawed logic simply amazes me. Atheists are the opposite of intellectuals? WTF? These guys are tools.
Re 214:
one spelling error is okay since it could just be a typo, but twice is a pattern that needs correction. :-) ☺
"Atheist" not "Athiest". Think "atheist" comes from the philosophy of atheism, it is not athiest which would be "the most athy".
And, actually having been in Athy many times, I'm probably athier than you.
Wow, Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort are two of the biggest douche bags I've ever let myself listen to. Their flawed logic simply amazes me. Atheists are the opposite of intellectuals? WTF? These guys are tools.
There was a funny letter to Car Talk (on NPR) last week that posed the philosophical question, "Do two people who know nothing about a subject know more or less than one person who knows nothing about that subject?" It then goes on to show, based on a previous episode of Car Talk, that indeed two people can actually know less than one person. It appears that Comfort and Cameron provide another example of this conclusion.
Bill you hit the nail on the head. It reminded me of an Emo Phillips joke:
BobC #221 wrote:
I think it depends on exactly what is meant by saying that science and religion are "compatible." There's the sense of the word which means that the two can be put together; they can be harmonized. Then there's the sense of the word which means that the two actually fit together, forming a coherent whole. I think only the first meaning works.
You can certainly have a religion which is consistent with science, in that you simply take whatever science reveals as the way God did it: God works through nature, behind the scenes in some mysterious way. But you can't do it the other way around: you won't derive the existence of God using a scientific approach to understanding reality.
When analyzed, "God" looks like what should be a scientific claim, but -- outside of the Creationists -- modern apologetics is one big falling all over itself heap of handwaving that omg no God is NOT a hypothesis or anything like it, it's in a totally different area, a different kind of thing than a science fact. It's like saying you love your mother. It's not a falsifiable hypothesis.
I give points to the Creationists that they're not as eager (at least on the surface) to buy into this sort of equivocation. But of course, they're not exactly doing science, either. They're doing "gut" science: figger it out yerself, and see if it feels true in your guts.
Personally, as a gay male, I liked it when Kirk Cameron talked about his squirter.
In fact, the whole banana think, about it curving and all, seems rather erotic.
They're doing "gut" science: figger it out yerself, and see if it feels true in your guts.
Ahh yes, Colbert's "truthiness".
Jim Babbit @ #204
So Jim, Why didn't you ask Comfort - "All you're giving me is religious bull. What facts do you have that ID is science, and should be taught in schools?"
and
"Ray, you said you studied about evolution for 35 years, so how is it that you so completely misunderstand it and misrepresent it by saying things like 'Evolution isn't true because we don't get dogs from cats'?"
Or - "Ray, How do you reconcile what you are telling me with the Discovery Institute's claim that Intelligent Design is not creationism?"
The only time "Science" and "Magic Man" are incompatible is when people who claim to represent the latter lay claim to knowledge that science has already or will eventually disprove.
In other words, they were "incompatible" when the Church insisted we were at the center of the universe.
When religion stays away from claiming to be the true source of knowledge, and instead promotes spirituality and humanistic ideas, the incompatibility dissolves.
I'm not saying this to convince anyone of anything. I only mean to point out the fact that, if you believe God exists, it's the fallibility of humanity that makes it appear Religion and Science are at odds. Remove human interpretation and the desire for power (ie. to lead people), and the problem disappears.
To #230
Really, BF, if anyone wants absolute proof that Ray doesn't know anything about evolution, just follow the logic he uses...
He says that there has to be transitional examples in the fossil record. (There are, but for his argument's sake, he's ignoring them.)
Then he says, "You've never seen a dog give birth to a cat!"
So, he wants to see both a "flip-book" version of the fossil recordl; where species go slowly from one transition to another; AND evidence of one species being produced by another totally separate species with out any transitional phases in between!?!?!
The man has all the logic of a cartoon character.
"Chicken eggs don't hatch puppies."
They do if you put them under a rainbow sprinkler for a while.
Me (@197):
Upon reflection, I think this...
...is an instance of acute Morissette's Syndrome: It's not so much ironic as it is an inherent defect.
According to Ray Comfort, because the banana is so easy to hold, peel, and eat, God must have designed it.
I only wished that God would redesign walnuts and crab legs so they'd be easier to eat. He must have outsourced those designs.
Cant wait to hear pz tomorrow. This is going to be interesting.
I am really surprised these kind of people like Ray Comfort can still be taken seriously by some people in America. I don't think he'd get invited to any show anywhere on a French or British or German broadcaster. There are very few creationists here (unfortunately a growing cancer that we are importing from the states), and you don't hear them that often on radio or TV, at least I haven't for a very long time.
It's really amazing that they invite people like this, it must be evidence for the existence of some particularly ignorant brand of Americans amongst the general population and amongst journalsists if they can't even tell the mere stupidity of such arguments, doesn't the media realize that they are participating by giving them a platform to continue to dumb down people ?
I mean even if they are going to give PZ a share of voice, there are still some people who aren't going to listen and choose to remain stupid, so why does the media choose to be a platform to let patently ignorant people miseducate people ? Is there no consciousness at all of a basic mission to educate the population ?
I think the American media, driven purely by capitalistic rules, have been obsessed for generations with this notion that they should give the "right" to all opinions to express themselves, however patently ignorant and stupid, particularly if they represent a share of the existing opinion, and that basically slows down education and critical thinking. So if more than 90% of Americans were completely ignorant about such things one generation ago, the media has been one of the main breaks to making sure this % stays more or less the same. Internet and especially blogs such as Pharyngula is the only chance for young Americans nowadays, they escape the dictat of the manufacturers of consent. Let's hope it works this time, seen from Europe, someone like Ray Comfort seems so anachronic, t's quite unbelievable he still exists in 2008.
"Kirk Cameron on the YouTube video says he was a "devout athiest."
WTH, how can anyone be a devout athiest when ..."
Cameron's is a ruse argument, and a baldly dishonest one in every sense of the word. They can claim to have been "devout" because they never actually were. They are using religio-speak to cast a false image to their fellow faithful. Words of a fellow traveler, so to speak. Also, they need to cast atheism as a faith in order to be able to make the argument that it is an undesirable one comprised of all the evil things they say atheism is about and produces.
Real definitions mean nothing to them, because anything not defined by the Bible or their chosen leaders is suspect because it is not derived from the expected sources of trusted information. The problem is psychological, mixed with a top-down hierarchy where deference to authority is expected in all cases. In this mindset you also can't learn truth because truth is only delivered via man from whatever god gave to man. Direct line from the person to god through generations.
It's all part of a theme.
Hey Penny
Hey that used to be my nickname: Right Circumstances
ahhh the good old days
Sastra at #158 - congrats on your Molly - Muchos Kudos to you. However, I'm not sure I like the term evolutionist (I know you put it in italics - so you probably agree with me). We don't talk about gravity-ists. There's not much to argue about so we don't need the "ist" at the end of the word.
My overall thought about all of this is that it will be so easy to win the war of reason over superstition, it will just take a long time to wake the religious out of their sleep. And that's the bitch of it i.e. probably not in my life time :-(
The media is market-driven, rather than knowledge driven. Capitalism largely determines what kind of information is disseminated to the citizens.
The only reason The Science Channel and ETWN (sp?) exist is because people want such things.
Boring in California, I live in Alaska and it sucks. You selfish prick.
Dammit! I wanted to transcribe it, but I can't seem to get it to play in Firefox on Linux. I see that it's "optimized for Windows Media" (cough, hack), but can anyone give me a handle on what the file-type is?
>No species-to-species transitions in the fossil record.
I have to say that I think that part of evolution is true, the part that we can replicate.
However, he does have a point here. People here don't get it. Americans believe for the most part that species-to-species evolution is bullshit. I am not religious and I know that. It's common sense. That part of evolution is not logical. It doesn't make any sense.
Just because scientists use a scientific method on an asumption does not mean that asumption is true.
I am not against science at all, but not all science is equal. Sometimes science gets things right and some times it get's it wrong. The more intelligent people will know that species-to-species evolution is false. It has become this hidden lie and I think it is time for people to really tell the truth and get it out in the open.
I am no fan of any other theory like ID or whatever and I don't think that is real science. However, I do think we need to be honest and not try to say to people that they are stupid because they don't believe in a lie.
That is why people reject it, because they know it is a fantasy. It is a Santa Clause fantasy that has turned into a science based myth.
It has gained ground because of a huge push from atheists trying to give them some kind push for their ideas.
Now, keep in mind that I am agnostic. I am not religious but I know what is really going on in the world and a lot of people know the truth.
SC @ 218 - Does Brownian usually jump all over innuendo?
And to clarify (in case anyone didn't get me) I was referring to points 7 & 8 in RC's banana argument.
Windows Media Audio
SO WMA
Cameron's is a ruse argument, and a baldly dishonest one in every sense of the word.
these people are masters of dishonest debate tactics.
http://www.johntreed.com/debate.html
#19:
Claiming membership in a group affiliated with audience members: debater claims to be a member of a group that members of the audience are also members of like a religion, ethnic group, veterans group, and so forth; the debater's hope is that the audience members will let their guard down with regard to facts and logic as a result and that they will give their alleged fellow group member the benefit of any doubt or even my-group-can-do-no-wrong immunity
this is the main reason most scientists prefer not to debate creationists.
creationists will use every dirty trick listed on that page, and if you aren't prepared for it, you will come off looking bad to an audience that doesn't know better.
It's a win-win situation for the creationist. Either you spend all your time pointing out the dishonest debate tactics, and the audience gets convinced YOU are being "evasive", or you try to address the points beyond the dishonest tactics and end up sounding like a gibbering idiot yourself.
Just because scientists use a scientific method on an asumption does not mean that asumption is true.
you obviously haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about.
Huwhaaat?
It's another form of the "I use to be a skeptic until ..." twaddle that shows up with ghost stories et al. All it means is "I didn't believe until I did."
My usual response is "if that's all it took to convince you, you weren't much of a skeptic to begin with."
Why would Ray ask if the host could make him a cow? What a waste, I mean, Ray has already spent years making an ass out of himself.
No you don't and if it's "your truth" they are fucking clueless too.
Please tell us why you think species to species evolution is false
I dunno. Taken at face value, it seems to another way of saying "Science is falsifiable" or "Scientists aren't always right". These are both obviously true.
Good science seeks to refine itself as rigorously as possible. This is a fundamental difference from religion, which favors dogma over a search for knowledge/truth.
I would never use that as justification to question each and every single scientific theory, of course. Science seeks to refine itself as rigorously as possible.
Were you objecting to the notion that "scientists make assumptions"?
Please tell us why you think species to species evolution is false
us?
"What you mean "we", Kimosabe?"
frankly, I really couldn't care less what Charles thinks.
Sorry. I was throwing bread to the birds thinking everyone didn't mind the shit on their sidewalk.
My bad.
The more intelligent people will know that species-to-species evolution is false.
Charles, could you please back this statement up with a citation or two?
To be honest, I have this gut feeling that there may be a lot of people who frequent Pharyngula and RD.net who could easily end up like Kirk Cameron... "I used to be a devout atheist".
Yeah, a dumb one.
You have to be an incomprehensibly weak atheist to take these guys seriously. That or a religion-leaning agnostic.
Were you objecting to the notion that "scientists make assumptions"?
that's right.
an hypothesis is not the same as an assumption.
Charles would obviously like to think we pull guesses out of our asses and just randomly test them.
It's quite obvious he really understands nothing of science, or the scientific method.
That is why people reject it, because they know it is a fantasy. It is a Santa Clause fantasy that has turned into a science based myth.
see?
You have to be an incomprehensibly weak atheist to take these guys seriously. That or a religion-leaning agnostic.
like Charles?
I couldn't finish it. I managed to grit my teeth and get through to the point where he finishes the ... designa' banana data, and moves on to buildings.
I was listening to the coke can story with my mouth wide open, feeling my synapses commit suicide, but ... the banana story ... that ... ridges ... hand has grooves ...
The utter Panglossian illogic presented in the mere few minutes it took for this idiot to tell these two stories killed me. I am dead inside. Inside my skull is a withered husk of a dissicated brain.
I say that he should check and see if that banana fits in his anus. I think God made that banana to go into a completely different orifice, not his mouth. Though, if his mouth is full of banana, then at least he wouldn't be spewing shit.
That's it.
Banana in the mouth, and let him talk out of his anus. Surely it would be an improvement.
The utter Panglossian illogic presented in the mere few minutes it took for this idiot to tell these two stories killed me. I am dead inside. Inside my skull is a withered husk of a dissicated brain.
links to people like Ray-ray should come with warning labels.
"Warning: The content you are about to view may cause irreparable brain damage. Proceed at own risk."
This might be the better venue, PZ, but I still would have enjoyed hearing a debate between the two of you. I would have derived great pleasure from hearing you tear him asunder.
But hey, at least I got to use the word 'asunder' in a sentence. Twice now. Woot!
LOl Atheist made a monkey out of me.
Sastra #227,
When I was a student, I had quite a number of Jesuit science professors (they are quite frequent in countries such as France, especially in disciplines such as Physics and Chemistry where their rigour and dedication is appreciated).
I actually discussed with many of them, and in general, it was always the same : faith came first, it was an priori choice they made early in life and they didn't need to discover god via science, they actually refused to do this because they saw it as a source of conflict. Their conviction was that God existed, but that he was not revealed via empirical evidence, but only by faith, that's why science could neither "reveal" God nor be in conflict with their faith in God. Then I asked, how do they know faith is really something valuable, not purely based on their imagination. They usually replied that for them, it was so strong that it pushed them to make this choice, and to stick with it all their life, despite the evidence, so it had to be based on something that they couldn't explain, called the soul, whch God has chosen to be "revealed", for obvious reasons, and the only confirmation they had of its existence was the fact that they had chosen to be convinced that it existed.
I just couldn't argue with that, why should I try and argue with someone who has dedicated his life to something and remains intelligent and knowledgeable and doesn't try to convince me that I should share their faith ? At least I don't see any reason or is there one ? But it does take us far far away from Ray Comfort stupid arguments...
"Cant wait to hear pz tomorrow. This is going to be interesting."
Hold on a darn second here God, don't you already KNOW what he is going to say? Perhaps you can provide a future transcript to prove your omnipotence!
p.s. which god are you? Thor? Baal? Aphrodite?
In the literal sense, I agree. I suspect this particular disagreement is more over semantics than understanding of the scientific method though.
As an example, Newton held off publishing (some part of?) Principia Mathematica for 5 years due to differences in gravitational attract and the orbit predicted by his calculations and those predicted by current understanding of the distance of the Earth to the Moon. When astronomers discovered an error in their data and modified that distance, Newton saw his calculations "work"; plugging in the new distance allowed his equations to make accurate predictions.
The question is this: was the faulty data a hypothesis or a theory? Was Newton "making an assumption" when he used the old distance to the moon? It certainly caused him to rethink his forumlae (though this did not result in them changing).
I'm sort of new to this community, and I don't have any notion of who the regulars are; maybe Charles has posted disagreeable stuff in the past. However, at face value, it sure seems (to me) that "scientists making assumptions" is equivalent to Newton trying to use the faulty distance to the moon. He certainly corrected the "assumption" when it was found to be faulty - and he arguably was able to make progress even despite the data error.
In short, I guess I don't see much of a difference between Charles' usage of "assumption" and utilizing scientific data that may or may not be accurate.
Just my $0.02
"Just because scientists use a scientific method on an asumption does not mean that asumption is true."
Do you not realize what you just said?
"I am not against science at all, but not all science is equal. Sometimes science gets things right and some times it get's it wrong."
You are basing your stance off the false assumption that science is a practice intended as a perfecct or almost perfect means of discovering anything. The fact is it's not perfect, because it is conducted by flawed human beings. You are, again, basing your assumptions (untested ones) about science on the premise that there is a solution that exists that will provide near perfect solutions every time. You are asking for something that doesn't exist.
"The more intelligent people will know that species-to-species evolution is false. It has become this hidden lie and I think it is time for people to really tell the truth and get it out in the open."
And you know you are correct how exactly? And your acceptance of the "species-to-species" argument is distracting from ugnderstanding how evolution actually works. you really think the chicken-laying-dog-eggs argument is a good one? You're honestly coming with that?
"It has gained ground because of a huge push from atheists trying to give them some kind push for their ideas."
And what body of athesists is doing this? What organization? What figureheads? Can you prove atheists explicitly came up with evolution? My guess is no.
"...but I know what is really going on in the world and a lot of people know the truth."
No, you don't sound like you do, and you are making for too many assumptions about the real world.
about that whole "banana" nonsense...
I've always wondered why people like Ray-ray never consider the idea that man was designed to fit the banana.
@266 I am the God, god. If I knew everything wouldn't I already know that all you Atheist would have turned against me. But I forgot about that little detail, so you got to give me a break.
However, at face value, it sure seems (to me) that "scientists making assumptions" is equivalent to Newton trying to use the faulty distance to the moon.
you are reaching way beyond what Charles wrote.
seriously, it's like trying to interpret baby garble as a language.
not worth your time.
Not that I have first hand experience, but I've seen pictures where this is the case...
Waitwaitwait...believing in evolution gets you rich? Since when? Dr. Myers, are you rich?
If I wanted to get rich and had a degree in molecular biology (and wasn't too ethical,) I wouldn't do it by defending evolution. What I'd do is wave my biology credentials and then claim that there was a vast conspiracy to suppress evidence for intelligent design. Then I'd write a book about it. It wouldn't even have to be a good book; dollars gets you donuts it'd fly off the shelves no matter how bad it was.
It seems to me like money's a much better incentive for folks like Comfort himself.
Sorry about the lame typing skillz. Time for another cup o' jo
'Money. You can get rich for just finding a bone.'
Damn evolutionists!
They keep finding evidence.
Isn't that despicable of them?
Not that I have first hand experience, but I've seen pictures where this is the case...
sounds like evidence to me!
quick, get it to Ray-ray. Soon we'll be able to prove the world revolves around the majestic banana!
:p
'Money. You can get rich for just finding a bone.'
The lottery. You can get rich for just scratching a ticket!
OT, but some good news:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/08/080805-gorillas-congo.h…
I think Charles and the ominous rainbow in my yard lady would get along just fine.
Charles; thinking -ur doin it rong
The thought of sending that pic to Ray just caused me a major meltdown in my office. Whew. That was rough.
Ray honey, you got a package.
go ahead and open honey
It looks like a picture of WHOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Oh this is too funny. WAY off topic but ...
The thought of sending that pic to Ray just caused me a major meltdown in my office.
humans: obviously designed to fit the banana by the shape and size of our hands, and the shape and size of...
heck, one part of the male anatomy was obviously designed after the model of the banana.
created in his image, indeed!
SC @ 218 - Does Brownian usually jump all over innuendo?
Yes (or so it seems to me), but in a very endearing, non-creepy manner.
Spalding Gray had a humorous story about an asian prostitute who put on a floor show with a banana and ping pong balls. Perhaps her little trick was the actual reason god created bananas. "DUCK! INCOMING PROJECTILE! "
Yeah. Charles the Agnostic doesn't seem to understand the scientific method or ToE. I'll try not to lash out at "Mr. Common Sense".
Yeah, and I've seen a few breasts that were a little too banana-esque. Perhaps it's gods pet design motif.
Whateverman #231
That's big of you but there's no danger of that happening.
What does a priest do again ?
Just because scientists use a scientific method on an asumption does not mean that asumption is true.
This is one of those statements that isn't even wrong.
Re "species to species evolution":
In a sense, Charles is correct. It probably is true that at no point does one species give birth to a different species. But they do give birth to a slightly different version of their species, which then may produce a slightly different version, and so on. So that over time the variation becomes so great that it is no longer identifiable as the original species.
But for some reason a lot of people (like Charles) just can't wrap their minds around this concept. And so we get the creationists making this "micro-", "macro-" evolution distinction. They can't understand that "macro" evolution is just a whole lot of accumulated "micro" evolutions. At no point did a lizard give birth to chicken; there were millions of small changes along the way. The fossil record is not the movie of evolution, it shows us single frames seperated by innumerable "transitional" frames so we only see jumps, not the little changes along the way.
Because it directly contradicts their belief that god created everything as is.
Comfort's mistress trophywife™, "Is that a plantain in your pocket... or are you just happy to see me?"
a plantain
IIRC, aren't plantains half the size of "normal" bananas?
are you trying to say Ray-ray is compensating for something?
;)
Oh man.(snorts) Do you know how to set up a straight line or what?
#176 - BG - Thanks for posting that MP3 so I could hear for myself how utterly stupid that man is.
So that's what all the snickering from down under is. Damn New Zealanders fobbed off their National Fool on us.
You bastards! I waggle my zucchini at your aunties!
#283: it might also have to do with the plentiful evidence that Brownian can actually think and write and is honest, so that innuendos aren't his only field of competence. Oh, and his double entendres don't all revolve around rape, miniskirts of human skin, and very bad analogies.
Aren't there mental health services for the indigent?
I'm sure they are collectively waggling their bananas at you ;)
Steve M #288 wrote:
Richard Dawkins called this tendency a trait of the "discontinuous mind." We tend to separate things into strict categories. Nature, however, is fluid. Species today seem to be frozen, separate. From the distant stance of history, however, it's all a gradual flow of slight variation, one into another.
(whiff) (whiff) I'm not sure, but I think I'm catching the faint scent of Eau de Gallic Arrogance™ for christian men...
Rev. do you think they'd dare? After unloading that pile of kack on us?
You cheeky bastards!
Am I the only one that sees an uncanny parallel between Ray Comfort and the South Park depiction of Johnny Cochran, in particular when he unveils the Chewbacca Defense?
I mean... I've seen a video where he calls up airlines and tries to get a reservation for a chimp, calling it a relative, and when they won't accept it he appears to think that that's a convincing argument against chimps being related to humans.
AND PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT NONSENSE!
#283: it might also have to do with the plentiful evidence that Brownian can actually think and write and is honest, so that innuendos aren't his only field of competence.
That is all true. Interestingly, though, the possession of those qualities doesn't always prevent the occasional slide into creepiness. I think Brownian's the pretty rare exception in that he never seems to cross that line.
Oh, and his double entendres don't all revolve around rape, miniskirts of human skin, and very bad analogies.
I'm still hoping that's an experimental art project. Too disturbing otherwise.
omg, K Cameron is such a faggot, (and im gay :|) and if he can get a dick out of his mouth long enough, he might say something like "share your faith"...what a creep!!!- - and that Comfort guy is the most nongraceful person i ever saw
#228: So you find Comfort's banana erotic? Take a listen to George Hrab's The Way of Yahweh, in which C&C's design argument is pursued to its logical conclusion and rammed home. (Warning: not for sensitive ears.)
negentropyeater #265 wrote:
This sounds a bit like Sam Harris' satire of the argument that Faith Proves God.
How to Believe in God
Six Easy Steps:
1. First, you must want to believe in God.
2. Next, understand that believing in God in the absence of evidence is especially noble.
3. Then, realize that the human ability to believe in God in the absence of evidence might itself constitute evidence for the existence of God.
4. Now consider any need for further evidence (both in yourself and in others) to be a form of temptation, spiritually unhealthy, or a corruption of the intellect.
5. Refer to steps 2-4 as acts of "faith."
6. Return to 2.
(Sam Harris)
I think that a lot of the more sophisticated believers are doing this, covering it with a great deal of lovely rhetoric and poetry. Whether Comfort and those like him are also doing it, I don't know. There's a lot of insistence that the empirical FACTS lead one to belief in God ("Fact --> Faith --> Feeling"), but I have a feeling that the fact of their faith is still the most important fact.
Kenny, you gabbling limpet!
Brownians innuendo and double entendres usually cause me to snort my drink. Especially the step-dad ones. ;)
Kenny, no atheist has ever died and then said something like "there is something 'over there'" in the sense required by your nonsensical twaddle.
Grow up and get a life of your own.
God is a lie.
no hugs for thugs,
Shirley Knott
I'd be willing to bet that Ray is deliberately saying bat shit nuts crazy stuff just to outrage the rationalists. That way in the eyes of the belivers Ray looks cool and happy and the rationalists are the angry, unpleasant ones.
Hey Kenny, did you bring your broken down old mom Brenda von Hissy with you?
My father who art in Heaven beats me...PRICK!
Yes, this is the real Kenny. :)
more evidence that xians don't respect anything or anyone.
Kenny, you were banned from here, and yet you keep coming back.
do you not see that as offensive?
...and before you try to defend yourself with some ridiculous comparison that doesn't apply, just answer the damn question:
how do you feel about violating the personal wishes of the owner of this blog, that you leave and not return?
If you're so obsessed with posting your endless inanity, why not start your own blog, like Ray-ray?
Lets talk about how we can help people that are starving and lets make a real difference in other people's lives.
You seem to be unfamiliar with the purpose of this blog. If you want to go feed the starving, you are in the wrong place. If this place is a waste of time, then STOP WASTING YOUR TIME HERE and go away!
Karen calls in with the Galileo issue: equates Comfort to an inquisitor. Comfort uses this to disavow Catholicism, and says "don't blame Christians" for the Catholics. Weird.
who do we blame the self-proclaimed xians on then?
Martin Luther?
"As I have said in the past people have died and even atheists have died and said that there is something over there." - The Really Stupid Kenny
Now he claims to speak to the dead...that's some trick tard.
To keep it on-topic, "priests" cause the conflict only when they claim their "bible" gives information about the physical world that contradicts with the physical world.
If all we had were Bibles and Christians (without any kind of organizational structure in place), Christianity wouldn't conflict as much; individuals would come to their own personal interpretations of what the Bible meant, and that would be that.
Instead, there's a pecking order - and there are books/dvds to be sold. There's plenty of incentive for individuals to stand up and tell lots of people I know what God wants, and here's how the world works.
Religion can exist peacefully with science if it sticks to it's domain of expertise ("spirituality" and ethics). trouble starts when it claims it can lead people to a better understanding of the material world more accurately than observation, reason and experiment can.
Just listened to the MP3. To say it was truly awful is truly an understatement. I wish you were on with him, PZ, because then I could've gotten some laughs out of it. It will be better for you to get your points across without a blithering IDiot interrupting you. After having listened to Ray for 45 minutes, I begin to see why the IDiots thought sending Dr. Simmons to debate you earlier was a good idea. By comparison, Simmons is brilliant!
I had trouble connecting live this morning. PZ's tip at #10 would've solved my problem, had I actually been reading along with the comments. Even though it appeared to be connecting, nothing happens until you click on "Listen Live." (With Safari, anyway.)
Kenny at #304:
Lets talk about how we can help people that are starving and lets make a real difference in other people's lives.
That's odd. I thought that developing new medicines and understanding causes of diseases, both of which depend on understanding evolution, make real differences in people's lives.
Also: genetic engineering, or even just understanding genetics, helps to develop better crops to feed people.
Oh! I'm sorry. What was your plan for helping these starving people? Just sending $5 a month to a hotline? Or that person with cancer? I assume that your idea of helping the sick is through prayer?
Brenda was halfassed funny. Ol Kenny is just:
blah blah blah
Religion can exist peacefully with science if it sticks to it's domain of expertise ("spirituality" and ethics).
ethics?
really? I think you should re-examine that one.
spirituality?
sure, sure.
what your point really boils down to is that religion doesn't conflict when it sticks to imaginary stuff, like trying to explain non-existent souls.
which, of course, is exactly why Flying Spaghetti Monsterism also doesn't conflict with science.
In reality, NOMA is both a logical and practical failure for the most part, though the delusional can be conned into accepting it from time to time (recent examples in Ohio come to mind).
You're not going to answer my question, are you Kenny.
here, let me restate it in analogous fashion for you:
You are banned from your favorite grocery store for peeing on the floor.
the next day, you decide to go back to the grocery store anyway.
How do you justify that to yourself?
I love the killfile! It kills the stooopid.
It kills the stooopid.
I only wish it did.
How do you justify that to yourself?
Near Death Experiences--the justification, proof, cause, and answer to everything.
"I never claimed that I speak with the dead.
Stop being some drama queen and read."
I quoted you EXACTLY, so stop bitching and stop being a troll.
Near Death Experiences--the justification, proof, cause, and answer to everything.
oh, if only Kenny could experience an NDE for himself.
I would promise not to cut the experience short for him.
...wait, what's that about bananas and orifices? Who the hell is that lout? It's the first time I bother hearing about him.
. I am nothing
Finally, kenny is right about something.
"I helped a blind man with his computer and helped him save money. That was what I did this week. Last week, I donated money to help pay for some flooring that someone needed. I am nothing, but at least I have helped. What have you done?"
I call liar...troll.
I work for a charity that helps people avoid injury, the single largest killer of young people. Does that count?
Oh for fuck sake. Who forgot to put the cover back on the sewer?
What have you done to help humanity?
support the scientists who are doing something, even if my own science is not directly related.
and you?
how are you supporting them?
no, wait, I really don't give a fuck about your inane rationalizations.
Just answer the first question:
how do you justify being here when you were banned:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/plonk.php
'I am nothing, but at least I helped. What have you done?'
I helped too. For 13 years I helped neuter leg lifting little mutts like you Kenny.
My favorite part about Kenny is how its non-sequitors need a dozen line feeds between them because it thinks it makes them seem more important and/or deep.
To me, it just says these pieces of shit smell so bad they can't stand to be near each other.
Maybe Kenny is Ray, the stupidity and GodBoting matches.
This is a free country. I should be able to post just like you all.
The second does not follow from the first. This blog is not the country.
This is PZ's blog. He has told you to leave, banned you, banned your IP. The pissing on the floor of someone else's place is completely apt.
Thought, try it sometime.
Well, I never did pee on your floor. So, you don't have to worry about it. :)
you're peeing on the floor right now.
This is a free country.
so, I can have your car?
I can wander into your house as i feel like it, and raid your fridge?
even you, as dumb as you are, surely realize that "it's a free country" hardly applies to private property, right?
so, how do you justify it?
you're essentially breaking and entering.
do you often break into other's houses in order to force the good word(tm) on them?
that's what you're doing here.
you're a criminal.
Is that really the message you want to send?
Um, no. This is PZ's blog and he has the right to say who can and can not comment. Not only that but he set up a little dungeon for the more annoying little specks of crap on the side of the bowl of the internet like yourself. You were put in it for acting like a complete and utter fool and persistently displaying your your own little mental illness. He has no responsibility to allow you to post here.
Dammit, I'm trying to make a blackberry/plum pie, and now the place smells of troll poop. :(
I helped too. For 13 years I helped neuter leg lifting little mutts like you Kenny.
can't you make an exception and actually neuter Kenny, not just mutts like him?
It would give the world just a tiny ray of hope to know he is not reproducing.
http://home.earthlink.net/~tjneal/stupid.wav
School must have just been let out. Kenny on one thread, baba on another..... ugh.
To me, it just says these pieces of shit smell so bad they can't stand to be near each other.
good eye.
Or day camp.
I get the feeling Kenny spent the day hanging from a tree by his underwear.
Kenny I don't feel the need to have a volunteering cock measuring contest in front of everyone to make myself feel better. You feel that need. Not very humble.
Your flaw is the premise ha the Old and New Testaments are exemplary in philosophy and morality/ethics. The truth is much of the judeo-christian books compiled into the "bible" have to be cherry picked since much of it is just nonsense or xenophobic rantings against rival tribes of people. Only a portion of the ten commandments are worthy of following. The Hammurabi code is more comprehensive (and just as barbaric) as any biblical list of rules. The "bible" is a mess as a standard of conduct. Have you really read it cover to cover? I have quite a few times (although you learn to skip the boring and WTF verses). It could use major editing and still would be problematic because much of it is ambiguous and vague.(Can you say interpretation?)
You also have to be biased for xianity and against all other religions and doctrines that are in conflict with it. And ultimately, you have to buy into metaphysics and the supernatural. Sorry, I lost that ability.
As for more peaceful coexistence, people will conflict with each other on any ideological issue, even if the theology question went away. Aggression knows no specific credo. Throw in our current lack of understanding of cognition and inability to cure psychiatric disorders, and you're not any closer to a feasible, attainable Utopian ideal even allowing for the fantasy of a worldwide ubiquitous xian bible acceptance.
In short: science and the supernatural(religion) are mutually exclusive. If you are willing to ignore the cognitive dissonance and rationalize the two anyway, then no amount of reason will change your mind.
I gave you a break and I didn't go too far.
uh, wow. one has to wonder just what he thinks would happen if he went "too far".
Is he holding back some secret word of Universal Undoing?
some parallel to the mythological "brown note"?
you're insane, kenny, and I really mean that. You'd feel much better if you left off blogging and spent the time in therapy.
/yawn.
#283 - Non-creepy innuendo spouting is the best kind of innuendo... I look forward to coming across Brownian, SC. Should I repeat myself in the hopes of gaining attention or has my time passed?
I get the feeling Kenny spent the day hanging from a tree by his underwear.
...and walked away convinced he was suffering for Jesus.
"Someone has to talk some common sense into you."
Kenny, obviously we just don't have the intellectual power to understand your amazing insights, clever arguments, and the truth. I think you should just give up on us poor stupid bastards. Leave us to our empty, pathetic lives full of self-deceit and fear. We, the tragically unteachable beseech you to not waste your time on us. Go, find someone else who can appreciate the brilliance of your cunning mind.
they do call you BigDUMBChimp
they call him by his chosen handle?
Bastards!
wait, they call me by my chosen handle too!
you...
Bastards!
kenny + reason = FAIL
Not only that but I'm not following that comment very well
me
ok
They call me? Who they. the school? You? Everyone? the fact you and baba the trolls are out of school is the reason?
huh?
That's a pretty disjointed comeback Kentoad.
Kenny #322:
Actually, Kenny, I'm a scientist. I'm a graduate student working on a project that may have implications for furthering the fields of cancer and stem cell therapy. My previous project sought to understand more about the development of the peripheral nervous system. I don't make medicines. I get paid less than half the income of the average person that possesses my undergraduate degree. I'm not sure exactly what career path I will end up choosing, but it certainly won't be in industry, where the pay is better, or in any other job that would really adequately pay me for all the time spent in school.
What I love is knowledge, and hopefully contributing a bit of new knowledge to the world for others to use, be they new medicines or therapies, or simply preventing disease. Sometimes, just having good information can be more effective than a pill. I change the lives of people around me for the better by acting morally, compassionately, with humor, and helping those whom I can help. I have old friends that have contacted me years later telling me that I was a positive influence. All I want at the end of this existence is to have no regrets, and to know that I have made the world around me a better place. I'm not a saint, but on the whole, my actions speak for me. I can always do better, be better, but that's what life is for: figuring out who you are and how you can grow up.
So you know what? Get off your high horse and shut the fuk up.
... because not even the counselors would let him down.
That must be a lovely day camp. Please tell me which one so I know not to let the kids go there.
Does anyone make troll bait - kind of like for mosquitos or gypsy moths, but for trolls, with that little extra...chemosterilant? That would be really helpful. Barring that, a nuke strike or an invasion might also be in order - weapons-grade stupidity is obviously present. We went to Iraq for less.
pretty extremely disjointed
that's Kenny in two words.
Kenny stopped reading right there.
... because not even the counselors would let him down.
...or his parents.
did kenny's posts disappear or something, or am I not capable of writing down correct post numbers? lol
Unfortunately, in Kenny's case, that would be any day camp.
Get off your high rocker horse and shut the fuk up.
sorry, I felt that needed more accuracy.
He's being blocked and deleted as we speak.
Excellent job Dr. Myers!
I am trying to make a point that atheists are a drag on humanity
no, you're trying to show us you're insane by babbling a constant stream of inanities.
we get it.
job complete.
you can stop now.
did kenny's posts disappear or something, or am I not capable of writing down correct post numbers? lol
call it:
instant karma.
cue the Kenny playing the role of Kirk in "Wrath of Kahn"
BTW, just gotta shout out to all the scientists here that we designers are trying to do our part for humanity too. Even if some of us are atheists. Take a glance at "Design for the other 90%"
http://other90.cooperhewitt.org/
Sorry Kenny, we still haven't figured out how to design a prayer that makes water potable.
"I am trying to make a point that atheists are a drag on humanity"
By being an asstard and fuckwad, good job Kenny*.
*Hint: I'm using sarcasm Kenny, you're doing a shitty job.
I'm a GodTroll(tm) who can't debate much less think.
People are mean to me because I shit all over their blogs with inane bullshit.
I am a tool.
what Dawkins tries to promote. He looks at atheists as saints
wait, we have dogma now? I must have missed the note in my mailbox again.
do we get to vote on who gets sainthood?
I would vote for PZ (among many others), or at least vote for him to get a set of fireproof underwear.
" stem cell therapy.
Kenny stopped reading right there. "
Oops.
That's adult stem cell therapy, actually. LOL
But it makes no difference to the brain-dead.
#283 - Non-creepy innuendo spouting is the best kind of innuendo... I look forward to coming across Brownian, SC.
I suspect he'll be happy to oblige. Your name alone is sexy enough (and I'm a woman :)).
Should I repeat myself in the hopes of gaining attention or has my time passed?
You could try! Me, I'm off for a beachwalk!
kenny, (and other idiot trolls who would go off on "free speech")
PZ =/= the state.
Well you may be TRYING to make that point but you never will. Like I said I'm not going to have a volunteer cock off, but rest assured the amount of time my wife and i put in is more than most Christians I know. By leaps and bounds.
Within 5 minutes Comfort says (1) apes and humans can't share a common ancestor, (2) elephants descended from wooly mammoth, "they're just hairless elephants!" Uh, Ray, have you ever look closely at an ape?
Can you say interpretation?
What I left out was this: All conflict between sects- between denominations generates from interpretation. Now before you say you stipulated "no organizational structure" - thats how sects form. Humans are in a continual cycle of social entropy, when they are not reduced to basic survival mode. Out of the chaos of disorganization, people naturally coalesce into groups who share a common like of specific interpretations. Those who disagree usually a) bow to authority and sacrifice their personal ideals,b) splinter off to form their own group c) leave to find an existing group that represents their ideals or d) are excommunicated and pursue option b or c. This model applies to both religion and politics.
By the Almighty All-knowing Hyperintelligent Kenny:
I had to laugh.
What's your definition of "real science", Kenny?
Kenny, you really aren't very bright.
Huh?
projection and dumbfuckery. So people lashing out is ok? Do you condone death threats?
Only one posting stupid shit is you Kentoad. And it's concentrated.
Such anger Kenny... where's that peace that passes all understanding you were promised? Is Jebus letting you down on that count? Well, that's because he's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy.
Bye bye Kenny!
"I am trying to make a point that atheists are a drag on humanity"
You may as well make the point that the sun orbits the Earth. They're both equally valid. You're here because:
1. you have an ax to grind against a competing world-view that you are unable to intellectually challenge.
2. your psyche finds reward in fomenting discord where you are not welcome.
3. you love being the center of attention even at the threat of ridicule in order to achieve some sort of personal validation.
SC, you've made me blush! I shall have a proper jump in my step for that! Hope you enjoyed your walk.
Sorry Claudia et al. who were waiting for some sort of (and I'm really just guessing here) crass comment from me laden with prurient content, but I would never, ever sully my lips or fingers engaging such low-hanging fruit as Ray Comfort's banana.
I'm sorry that Kenny is such a dipshit, he had a hard life and his father...well, let's just say he has a real problem with his 'roids.
All conflict between sects- between denominations generates from interpretation. Now before you say you stipulated "no organizational structure" - thats how sects form.
number of xian sects?
~ 40000 (no kidding)
number of recognized jewish sects?
less than 20
why?
interesting.
Oh wow, he actually said that? What a 'tard. There are 3 year olds with better understanding of the evolutionary process than him.
Time to stop feeding the troll. Talk to yourself kenny
I am telling it like it is.
liar.
basically make myself out to be a moron
wait, I take that back. You really are telling it like it is.
you do indeed do a great job of making yourself out to be a moron. You go above and beyond, in fact.
nope, sorry, i got to 3 minutes 30 seconds and despite my wanting to see what the banana bit is about, i couldn't bring myself to continue watching -- the stoopid was just too much.
thank you, dr. myers, for sacrificing your time to combating this lunacy.
Ignore it. It'll be gone soon....it's gotta jack-off while imagining the eternal torture of those it hates.
Ouch!!!! This is just too sad to watch.
Ya know,if there was just some way to figure out the "real Christians" from the heretics I think we could make some progress. If only there was a test of some sorts. Surely in all this time someone's invented a sure-fire test.
LMAO @ Brownian... Sorry to have sullied your name. I've heard only good things.
Surely in all this time someone's invented a sure-fire test.
if she weighs the same as a duck...
I can't tell you how many times my restful slumber has been interrupted by the psychic intrusion of an unpeeled stick of potassium. I never realized god was a yellow phallic symbol.
I think Kenny's father working too near an unshielded X-ray machine would explain a lot. Considering the number of trolls here, I'm going to guess that there is a product liability suit in the making - I would guess that some medical equipment manufacturer skimped on the user protection. Just wheel Kenny, Baba, or Rooke up to the witness stand and the defendants (and their lawyers) will be checking their wallets as they (try to) speak.
Back it up Kentoad. If not its just more of you displaying what an ignorant little child you are. Of course continuing to come back here is pretty strong proof.
/headdesk
Of course, the question for Ray is: Who designed the designer of humans? Then who designed that designer, etc.
As he claimed everything is designed and has a designer, his own claim fails him, of course.
So he just breaks his own rule and says/claims/postulates god has no beginning and was not designed. Oops.
If Kirk Cameron really was an Atheist, then Ray Comfort's analogies should bring him back to the fold, or any sane person for that matter. Seriously I could only get through about 4 minutes of that crap. Surely if the banana was designed it would have an exoskeleton so that it wouldn't get all squishy with a plunger to remove it kinda like a push pop.
So I wonder what Ray's conclusion about a penis being the right size to fit inside a mouth would be?
This is utterly painful to listen to, does this man hear himself? The willful ignorance is astounding beyond words.
Ray Comfort is such an asshole.
Rev, don't give him a /headdesk. That's all he/she/it wants. Best to simply feel pity for he/she/it.
BG - thanks for the MP3!
Blue Independent #268
Shhhhh, I think he might be onto us.
Consult the updated Black Block Atheist Manual and switch to Pharyngula code template 42
ENCODER-> Run\\thanks for all the fish
\\END
I'll see you at the meeting
I agree with the penis in the mouth statement. I mean, anything phallic shaped could be used as an argument for ID! What is it with religion and the Almighty Wang?!
And I don't wanna brag you guys but...I have a sexy name... ;)
What a bunch of fucking douchebags
These two are incredibly stupid, its 2008 for fucks sake
scooter, Damn I forgot the secret handshake again.
"Dogs do not have chickens. Chickens don't lay eggs with puppies in them. This is apparently evidence against evolution."
Yet if the above ever actually happened, it would be called a miracle from God.
Heads I win, tails you lose.
Sorry - got distracted on the pie.
Just grab dear little kenny, I'll 'fix' him. ;)
if she weighs the same as a duck...
Posted by: Ichthyic
Well, that should be easy then. I could get started tomorrow identifying True Christians. Any particular size duck?
I can't believe how pathetic that troll is.
Addicted to pain, it is.
What is it with religion and the Almighty Wang?!
it's all about the power.
I never realized god was a yellow phallic symbol.
well, now that you do, I can only assume your now correct worldview will be reflected appropriately in the real world?
we need all the banana proselytizers we can get right now.
What is it with religion and the Almighty Wang?!
deep, deep misogyny.
Sorry - got distracted on the pie.
Pie? What kind?
Ray Comfort kept repeating "Man was made in God's image." I lost count of the number of times he said that. I wonder how he knows what God looks like.
Any particular size duck?
nope, any duck'll do.
BobC #416 wrote:
Given that he thinks he looks like Albert Einstein, I wouldn't trust him.
I could get started tomorrow identifying True Christians.
to be sure, though, the test is designed only to measure heretics/witches, so you'll have to find ALL the heretics and witches before we can be sure there is nothing but True Xians(tm) left.
by that time, they'll all have been raptured most likely, so...
There's pie?
With all the double entendres and innuendo going around, I wouldn't touch that one with Ray Comfort's banana.
#338 - Ichthyic - The Council of Concerned Citizens who are smarter than you are is a real hoot! But it almost sounded like an ad for the animal farm in Enumclaw. ;)
There's pie?
I know. I was just thinking about my apple pies, and remembering that I deleted my old blog along with the pie recipe. (And I was on the phone with Mom, who was talking about her apple tree in the back yard and getting ready to make pies.)
Shit, all I've made recently is saltinboca.
With all the double entendres and innuendo going around, I wouldn't touch that one with Ray Comfort's banana.
I just felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror.
nope, any duck'll do.
Excellent. I wonder if I could get a tie-in sponsorship with Aflac? Any Aflac board members out there looking for a great opportunity? Hey Ray, have your people call my people - we could team......maybe work in the banana thingy.
PS Nobody tell Bill Donohue, there's a chance this might not work out well for him.
it almost sounded like an ad for the animal farm in Enumclaw.
for all I know, it might have been.
;)
Golden cherry plum and blackberries, just picked this morning. Traded my neighbor eggs for cream, so we'll have whipped cream for a topper.
When I first read this, I read 'ruptured' rather than 'raptured' and was going to say that it's unfair of you to suggest that the trend toward obesity was restricted to Christians rather than being a general phenomena in the developed world.
But since you didn't say 'ruptured', you may feel free to skip the preceding paragraph.
Now, whatever happened to that pie?
Patricia and your address is...? :D
Proof of Ray Comfort's understanding of evolution! Neighbors grow from eggs!
Kenny is the perfect embodiment of theistic stupidity. He's a living, breathing, typing argument against accepting Christ as your personal savior. Why ban such an exquisite personification of the dangers of dogmatic reasoning (oxymoron alert)? If nothing else, he might embarrass some of the more intelligent Christians into seeing the error of their ways. It's your blog, though, PZ; know that I appreciate your fine work in science education despite my minor beef with your comments policy.
Brownian for the Molly!
er....oh. Duh! ;)
to be sure, though, the test is designed only to measure heretics/witches, so you'll have to find ALL the heretics and witches before we can be sure there is nothing but True Xians(tm) left.
by that time, they'll all have been raptured most likely, so...
Posted by: Ichthyic
Hmmmm. I'd have to start out part time. Then when I retire I could do more. Maybe teaming.
Yeah, could take a while.
I suppose another drawback is that the test might have to be administered by a True Christian. But, how to find the first one in order to do the first test? Jumpin' jehosephat, this is starting to get uneasy. I better think this thing out over some bourbon. Maybe just the bourbon and no thinking.
To heck with pie. I'm having squid ink fettuccine putanesca tonight.
daveb, Kenny is banned because: (1) he asserts the same things over and over again without support; (2) shows no interest in engaging anyone else other than as a jumping off point for (1); (3) derails every thread he can with (1) regardless of the topic of the thread or whether or not anyone has even engaged him; and (4) is really, really, really dumb and boring.
He might as well be a bunch of links for online V18GR8 and C18L1S for all the value he brings to the table here.
Baking pies when it's already 97 degrees outside must be addling my brain... traded my neighbor a dozen eggs... Sheesh.
Now time to slice up some fruit for cold sangria. I must have missed kenny getting banned, again.
He might as well be a bunch of links for online V18GR8 and C18L1S for all the value he brings to the table here.?
but those are far more fun and socially useful than kenny.
I HAZ MISSED KENNY?
MAJeff, my Spanish may be a little rusty, but I remember enough to object to you referring to your dinner date as a putanesca.
MAJeff, my Spanish may be a little rusty, but I remember enough to object to you referring to your dinner date as a putanesca.
try italian
try italian
Should have Googled it first, since it means exactly what I meant to imply.
Damn! Only cure for such sloppiness is to justify it post-hoc with a few pints.
mmmmmmmmmmmmm anchovies
I HAZ MISSED KENNY?
sorry, no food for you tonight, kitty.
Maybe just the bourbon and no thinking.
now you're gettin it!
pass that bottle over here, eh?
Surely in all this time someone's invented a sure-fire test.
if she weighs the same as a duck...
-----------
I was always under the impression that in New England you were guilty if you floated, the innocent always drowned.
Sorry, forgot we weren't talking about witches...how about Christian witches??
but those are far more fun and socially useful than kenny.
but that's really not saying much now, is it.
a case of the crabs is more useful than Kenny.
Maybe just the bourbon and no thinking.
now you're gettin it!
pass that bottle over here, eh?
AHHHHHHHHHH damn it. i knew I forgot to do something.
Stupid SC 7 PM liquor store closing laws.
/grumble.
mmmmmmmmmmmmm anchovies
Yup.
It's leftovers from my favorite restaurant.
The conference meant reconnecting with some friends...and since it was in my town and I'm the only one with a fridge, I got all the doggy bags.
For lunch it was linguine aglio e olio with scallops.
Neighbors grow from eggs!
holy crap!
that would explain a lot.
I kept wondering why someone was hiding easter eggs on my front lawn in August.
I've got some 'splainin to do.
Nice. Now I'm hungry.
The one plus of having Kenny around is to remind the rest of us of the benefits of not being a credulous, delusional dimwit with the brain of a peanut and a penchant for repetitive, incoherent blog posting.
#228: I am very proud of the fact that I was kicked off a national news company's website for stating that I thought Kirk had a cute ass when he was younger.
Kirk can't be gay because he has six kids. Oh, wait, I'm gay and I have two kids. I must have not had enough kids to get rid of teh gay.
Anyone who says he found all of the answers to everything when he was 17 has not matured mentally beyond adolescence.
And: The catholic vs christian controversy will be a huge issue if the the true christianists ever get control. The catholics will be sent to the same camps as jews, muslims, mormons, jw's, atheists, and everyone else who is not a true christian.
"He actually says this: Dogs do not have chickens. Chickens don't lay eggs with puppies in them. This is apparently evidence against evolution."
Wow, what an asshat. The hypothesized evolutionary tree is NOT the complete graph with a quadrillion vertices. No, to find someone who believes in that kind of arbitrary unrestricted interbreeding, you'd need to talk to some weird cultist who thinks that a man can be his own father.
Well duh. Any self respecting soon to be EX-Gay man knows the for sure way to stop being gay is more sex with women.
Sadly, Wowbagger,
We don't need Kenny for that anymore. We have Peter Rooke and Baba now.
The sad thing is that Ray is "wholesome", so a lot of parents will sit them down to be monotonously barraged with this nonsense that just doesn't quite check out when you run it over the scanner, but man, he's just so CONFIDENT and WHOLESOME that it's hard to believe that he could be just a big old phony. The true story is complicated and full of legitimate uncertainties about what tomorrow may bring, and it's important to keep the faith in civilization above all else, especially inconvenient details that we can't learn anything useful from fussing over, anyway. Gah, I have a very complicated hate for these security-blanket con men.
Any self respecting soon to be EX-Gay man knows the for sure way to stop being gay is more sex with women.
Went to an interesting paper presentation about teh x-gays. Talk about the damage of religious belief. What a bunch of disgusting, destructive nonsense.
It's either sex with women or no sex.
They work very hard on developing a nice dose of self-hatred and nonsensical gender essentialism. (Yes, they actually try to fix the women by teaching them to put on make-up. The presenter said that a lot of the ex-ex-gays he intereviewed actually mentioned that But I'm a Cheerleader was actually fairly accurate!)
yikes.
"Here bob. If you just watched football more often you'd be cured."
"But I already watch football, in fact I played in highschool"
"um ... are you sure you're in the right place"
"Actually no."
you'd need to talk to some weird cultist who thinks that a man can be his own father.
or his own grandfather*?
*pop culture reference to one Phillip J Fry.
Ichthyic, #455
10 points for the reference to the 'Nasty in the Pasty'.
Ichthyic -
God is infinite. The proof is by induction.
By n-father, I mean that 1 is "father", 2 is "grandfather", etc. That is, each man is his own 0-father, and if A is the n-father of B, then B's father is A's n+1 father.
1. God is his own 0-father, so this is our base case.
2. God is his own father.
3. Suppose we know that God is his own n-father. (Inductive hypothesis)
4. For each n, the n+1 father of God is by definition the father of God's n-father. So by (2) and (3), it follows that God is his own n+1 father.
5. Therefore for all n, God is his own n-father.
6. Therefore God is at least countably infinite in some sense.
QED
Stupid SC 7 PM liquor store closing laws.
Wow.
The conference meant reconnecting with some friends...and since it was in my town and I'm the only one with a fridge, I got all the doggy bags.
I'm jealous. How was it? I've basically been housebound for the past week. Missed all 3 conferences (including making my own presentation at one), missed all of my friends, missed everything. But I had Pharyngula. :/
I'm jealous. How was it?
The best part was re-connecting.
The job interviewing stuff was miserable. And everyone telling me to "network"....well, I sat in the lobby and read a book because the idea of going up to people I didn't know was just too much. Can't do it--social anxieties are too overwhelming.
Good book, good friends, good food. that was good, but the wrist-slashing feelings were also very strong.
countably infinite
o.O
Missed all 3 conferences (including making my own presentation at one), missed all of my friends, missed everything.
Had something like that a year or so ago. Had two papers accepted at the Midwests, but couldn't afford to get there. Reimbursement is good, but it doesn't help if you can't get there to get reimbursed.
Stupid SC 7 PM liquor store closing laws.
Stone me, and I thought UK licensing laws were mental.
Ichthyic -
Just like "theory" in science doesn't mean what it means colloquially, "countably infinite" has a specific meaning in the context of mathematics. If you have a few hours to spare and you'd like to go on a total acid trip, check it out on Wikipedia and follow up on the leads.
Thanks to Steve M for pointing out my misspelling of atheist and BlueIndependant for explaining a ruse argument.
My opinion is that Ray Comfort provides "comfort food" for those who choose and/or need to believe in a spiritual god and an afterlife.
Like Livia in "I Claudius" who said to Claudius, "I want to be a goddess," most of us would like to believe in an afterlife of glory and perpetual comfort. Many of us realize that this is just an empty promise while Comfort and Cameron prey on the gullible who want to cross that River Styx (or Jordan) to the other side.
At least scientists don't go around like evangelicals handing out bogus money with info about their bogus gods while expecting the duped to give them real money. Sometimes you wonder if the ministries and the preachers are more about the GREEN stuff than the GOD thing.
Patricia, where is this "Kenny" post you are ragging on about? I use to post as "Kenny P" until I saw your posts wondering if I was the original "Kenny."
Pullleaseeee, Patricia, there is more than one Kenny in the world.
If you have a few hours to spare
too late.
and you'd like to go on a total acid trip
do I need maths for that?
my bag of mushrooms says otherwise.
:p
The job interviewing stuff was miserable. And everyone telling me to "network"....well, I sat in the lobby and read a book because the idea of going up to people I didn't know was just too much. Can't do it--social anxieties are too overwhelming.
Good book, good friends, good food. that was good, but the wrist-slashing feelings were also very strong.
Ugh. I hear ya. I just looked at the program to see if it was my friend who presented the paper you mentioned. It wasn't - he presented in the same-sex marriage section, though, among other things. FWIW, I do know people in a number of departments. If you want to email me and let me know where you're applying, I'd be happy to give anyone I know there a heads-up. No pressure, though.
Patricia, where is this "Kenny" post you are ragging on about? I use to post as "Kenny P" until I saw your posts wondering if I was the original "Kenny."
Pullleaseeee, Patricia, there is more than one Kenny in the world.
It's been deleted.
Regular banned troll--don't worry about not seeing. Not missing anything except intense stupidity, vapidity, and hatred.
Patricia, where is this "Kenny" post you are ragging on about?
gone with the hot wind.
seriously.
(almost?) all of Kenny's posts were removed, as he's not even supposed to be posting here to begin with (was officially banned months ago).
Had something like that a year or so ago. Had two papers accepted at the Midwests, but couldn't afford to get there. Reimbursement is good, but it doesn't help if you can't get there to get reimbursed.
Even sadder when you're about 20 minutes away on the T!
It wasn't - he presented in the same-sex marriage section, though, among other things.
After checking that no one was doing my research, I skipped that session (bad Jeff)
FWIW, I do know people in a number of departments. If you want to email me and let me know where you're applying, I'd be happy to give anyone I know there a heads-up. No pressure, though.
Thanks--I may be making use of that, but not unless I first give you some materials, and I don't want to overload you and impose. (God, I'm such a Minnesotan)
Not missing anything except intense stupidity, vapidity, and hatred.
don't forget the denial and projection.
"who, me? a hater? never! You're all the real haters! I'm just tellin' it like it is."
I think I just threw up a little.
Even sadder when you're about 20 minutes away on the T!
Believe me, I know.
What kills me is that sociologists are supposedly so "interested" in inequality but don't recognize the practices in which they engage that reproduce it.
I want to send off a few papers over the next year, but with unemployment looming in January, I just don't dare--won't be able to go anywhere.
Yep. Southern Blue Laws. Stupid.
Thanks for the mp3, BG.
After checking that no one was doing my research, I skipped that session (bad Jeff)
I'm sure you missed something good :(. I went to his presentation in Philadelphia (and others when we were grad students together), and he gives good talk.
Thanks--I may be making use of that, but not unless I first give you some materials, and I don't want to overload you and impose. (God, I'm such a Minnesotan)
Yes, you are! Dude, I already offered to read your diss chapters - some materials don't scare me. Send anything you want!
Yes, you are! Dude, I already offered to read your diss chapters - some materials don't scare me. Send anything you want!
Thanks....I'm just such a Minnesotan. It's just really hard for me. I appreciate it.
What kills me is that sociologists are supposedly so "interested" in inequality but don't recognize the practices in which they engage that reproduce it.
This is true. In this case, at least, the problem wasn't financial (not that I have no financial problems, but I can afford the T :)).
I want to send off a few papers over the next year, but with unemployment looming in January, I just don't dare--won't be able to go anywhere.
I don't get it.
Yep. Southern Blue Laws. Stupid.
Yeah, I thought ours were bad up here. (You can, surprisingly, buy it here in MA on Sundays, which I make it a point to do just because it feels a bit subversive). In Spain, the laws are are really lax - or maybe they aren't, but no one follows them, which is a cultural characteristic that I much admire. Problem is, everything closes for holidays, and every other day is a freakin' holiday.
Problem is, everything closes for holidays, and every other day is a freakin' holiday.
I love how they were trying to close down Super 88 in Chinatown on Thanksgiving last year.
I see a building and I know it was created by a human being because I've seen human beings build buildings before. I see a painting and I know it didn't happen by accident because I've seen other people paint pictures before. Now, I would believe in G*d IF I had ever seen G*d create an earth or a sun before. But, I haven't seen G*d making anything so I don't believe in him. These two twerps have no inkling of the machanisms of logic.
We can buy beer round the clock in charleston but no liquor (in stores., bars and restaurant no problem).
When I lived in Wyoming and decided it was time for more whiskey, if the store was open, I could get it.
Oh well. My liver is probably better off.
We can buy beer round the clock in charleston but no liquor (in stores., bars and restaurant no problem).
Ah. I don't think we can, but I don't drink beer. Even in New York, the beer aisle in the supermarkets was blocked off on Sundays. So it seems in some ways we are worse. Since I drink rum, though, the trade-off is better for me :). Are there any dry towns down there? We've still got 'em (or basically dry).
Qwerty - I do not do 'ragging', but I DO beg your pardon. PZ has always posted a warning, I missed it on this thread. I'll start at the top and look again.
Please excuse me for offending you, unintentionally.
;)
Patricia
When life deals you troll poop, make troll poop pie
Has anyone in this thread noticed the page being turned topsy-turvy and colors flashing and stuff? I'm hoping it's not just me . . .
Thanks BG #176 for the MP3. Had trouble listening with both on IE and Firefox.
#440:
Sure, and that's why a duck.
(Why not a goose?)
Ich and EV, sorry I haven't had the time to respond. The discussion's been buried since 5pm est, but I have stuff to say. I'll keep it for another day.
Cheers
Just finishing Rick Shenkman's Just How Stupid Are We?, and it looks like he has a lot of competition!
That book is VERY relevant to Australia as well, - a nation overwhelmingly populated by sheep, and millions of them walk on two legs.
mothwentbad #456,
What kind of object is God in this? With any sensible interpretation "father" is a strict partial order defined on some set (such as, say, a set of persons), although this "proof" redefines "father" as a reflexive relation, it then goes on to give a muddled definition of God as being some kind of zero element (1 & 2), but later God is "in some sense" countably infinite. Countably infinite is a statement about a set (i.e. that the cardinality is ℵ0). The only sets in this are the set on which the "father" relation is defined, which is not stated, or the extension of the "father relation". So which is it? Is God a single element of the ill-defined base set, or a set of pairs of elements of an ill-defined set?
I'm not a mathematician, but that has to be some of the silliest pseudo-mathematical bollocks I've seen in a while. At best, it would be a rather unsatisfying choice of definitions of God either as zero or as a simple algebraic structure (like a monoid or a semigroup) isomorphic to the integers under addition or something.
Sounds very wanky.
"Creations need a creator." I agree. What they have to prove is that the universe is a creation, and not just an accident of physics.
Ugh, Scooter. Although I suppose one could use troll pooh pie for throwing.
OT - Have you heard how many times McCain got mooned at Sturgis?
OT - Have you heard how many times McCain got mooned at Sturgis?
*BIG SMILE*
He's such an asshole.
I have Comfort's book, "God Doesn't Believe In Atheists." It contains the banana argument with a few more details than the video includes. Without looking it up (which I will if anyone wants it) he says something about "well-made" bananas have those features which show design - for example, three ridges on one side and two ridges on the other. So what about bananas that don't show the design he so enjoys pointing out? THOSE bananas are deformed because of original sin. Seriously.
This will explain the duck reference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g
"Ray flat out lied when he claimed..."
Ray Comfort lied! Stop the presses!
Emmet -
It was pure wank, and I'm a staunch atheist.
Oh my god! Is Ray Comfort using a can of Jolt Cola for his demonstration?! Sacrilege!
I guess you could regard it as n-father a one-parameter family of relations, all of which contain the pair (God, God). Fatherhood usually isn't reflexive, though.
J.S. Brown - Original sin! Does he say why Adam & Eve have navels? Were they using them to open sinful bananas? Ray is a complete IDiot. *sigh*
Jesus, I can't type. Let's try again:
I guess you could regard n-father as a one-parameter family of relations, all of which contain the pair (God, God). Fatherhood usually isn't reflexive, though.