I think we can all already see the defense the right wing is throwing up to rationalize Sarah Palin's inane remarks about "fruit fly research in Paris, France": she wasn't disparaging all research into fruit flies, but only one specific earmark for studying agricultural pests.
Baloney.
The context of that comment was that she was claiming research had "little or nothing to do with the public good", and she brought up these seemingly trivial little animals and a place the right wing despises as dogwhistles to her hoople-headed fans. Claiming now that she was making an informed criticism of a specific study is a feeble attempt to distract with a lie.
Remember, this is the crank governor of Alaska who denies evolution and global warming, the backup candidate to a man who mocks research into bear DNA and calls a multimillion dollar educational tool an "overhead projector", from a party that ridicules people with Parkinson's because they want more stem cell research, and idiots want to claim that she isn't really anti-science because in this one case she was actually targeting an instance of applied research that directly benefits agricultural interests?
That's insane. You have to be a purblind slavering zombie of the Rethuglican party to swallow that.
It goes deeper than just trying to belittle science, too — we are a technological society that is entirely dependent on the advancements science has brought to us, that is facing a new series of challenges that will require new science to overcome. The Assemblies of God churches are not going to come up with anything to help with global warming, alternative energy, new medicine, new reproductive technologies, new discoveries, new ideas. Science is our tool to help people, yet the Republican party only sees it as a kind of armament factory to help them kill strangers in foreign lands. As John Cole put it, "why is it that the people who claim to adhere to the culture of life are so filled with hate for…people?"
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To hear the way she actually says it simply exudes derision and condescending hate on the scientific enterprise. The way she says it is much worse than the actual words. Maybe the right wing can try to argue her words meant one thing, but the way she says completely defeats that argument.
If nothing else she tried to create a parallel between the bridge to nowhere and fruit fly research. She didn't say anything about what the research was about, so the most direct interpretation of her words is that fruit fly research (of any kind) sounds as ridiculous as the bridge to nowhere.
It does... if you don't know anything about fruit fly research.
All I could think of was:
You'd have to be on about the intellectual level of a fruit fly to not see that
is most definitely meant to be disparaging. And you'd have to be a complete scientific illiterate to even say it. I wish I could say this lowered my opinion of Palin, but really, is there any possible way to do that?
That very same thought had crossed my mind.
"Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers."
George Carlin.
Its very simple, really. The Republicans are afraid of change. Scientific inquiry fosters change. Thus - science is bad. You can also easily apply this logic to:
* Gay rights
* Atheism
* People with funny names
* Educating the poor (and middle class)
* ...etc.
Researchers are fighting back.
We know what she meant. All they can do is play damage control. I hope she runs for president in 2012 with Michelle Bachmann as her VP choice. It wouldn't be an election, it would be a slaughter.
I haven't had this much fun watching people spin in a long time.
McCain's Rovite advisors and right-wing support base not only have demonstrated to me that his qualifications for the Presidency are suspect, but also make me fear for the future of science in the United States.
Should this bunch actually win next week, I envision the loonys clamoring for heads to roll as payback. I figure I'll have six months to liquidate my assets, learn Swedish, and apply for political asylum.
Picture Katherine Harris on the Supreme Court, Michelle Bachmann as Handicapper-General, and Sarah Palin presiding over the anti-American congressional witch-hunt. Joe (the Tail-gunner) McCarthy would smile.
Fruit fly research in France. It would be like wasting money on hunting for invisible objects on the border of France. :)
Science is the basis of our American civilization and the reason why we are the world's last (and fading!) superpower.
Palin is a Xian cultist Nihilist who would destroy the USA while chanting Jesus Loves You. And shooting something...or somebody. At some point, the (stupid-ignorant-crazy) complex becomes just plain old Evil. She's there.
They are just afraid of science because the more we learn, the sillier their bronze age book looks. They just want to wipe out all knowledge so their book holds the top spot of ultimate reference for everything, just like they always imagined it did.
Who needs agriculture? God will make manna fall from the sky and water spring from rocks for his chosen people.
You can't (at least I can't) help but think about 1100 ad in the middle east.
Although, this time it's next to impossible to halt the spread of knowledge. I love the interweb!
Fight for the enlightenment! Stop the knuckledraggers!
Science is not the work of the debul.
I had this argument with a friend. He came in with all of his research showing that the project she was talking about was about fruit flies and olives.
I had to point out to him that most people don't even know how to do the research he just did, let alone would they want to. On top of that, many of those people wouldn't understand why someone would study fruit flies if not for agricultural purposes.
To most people, the obvious sentiment behind her statement was "Research on fruit flies is absurd!"
It was also another way of throwing a zinger in about France, too. Oh, it happened in France. You know, those people who didn't support Bush. That was as much of a dog whistle as anything.
I hope everyone can see where this is headed. Don't you all realize that when scientists invented birth control and abortion, it enabled women to have sex as if they were men, without fear of pregnancy? Scientists are making women more and more like men every day. If they are not stopped, scientists will soon enable women to purchase technology-enabled strap-ons which enable them to impregnate men!! This horror would turn the entire world upside down! Our noble patriarchs of yore would no longer be respected and admired. Instead they would be imprisoned in the kitchen and forced to make babies twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week. Even on the day of Our Lord Jesus Christ men would be subject to the whims of women enabled by science.
Come on PZ, that's a lie and you know it. ;)
If everybody's dead and earth is a nuclear wasteland, these cease to be problems.
Ignorance and disdain for science should never ever be anything more than the opinions of fringe groups that no one takes seriously. When did the uninformed opinions of a misinformed crank become mainstream?
Zinjanthropus- I agree. Many Americans likely think fruit fly (or other basic research) is absurd.
Maybe our science communicators need to spend more time explaining to those not familiar with science why basic research is important. Also people who aren't in science need to get a handle on the arguments so they can convince others of its importance. (I fall into the latter group and admittedly haven't taken the time to educate myself on how to change others' minds on this subject.) If enough of us talk about it maybe basic research will become more valued.
They crawled out of the woodwork and snuck up on you while you were Sleeping, embolded by Bush no doubt.
I contend that the speech she recited reflects very very poorly on John McCain's science adviser. For just a coupla mavericks, these two are following in the ruts of the Bush Administration's anti-science attitude.
Damn the Liberal Elites. Spending your money by sitting around watching fruit flies hump. Let's go kill some animals from helicopters.
"As John Cole put it, "why is it that the people who claim to adhere to the culture of life are so filled with hate for...people?" "
...and let's not forget the suspicious correlation between pro-life people and pro-death penalty people. hmmm....
The last paragraph of this post is excellent. I would add, however, that future scientific advances will provided new ways for us to inadvertently harm people as well as help them (or hurt them intentionally). We will need moral and ethical judgement more than ever before, not less, to regulate our new powers. The ancient religions built on ignorance, fear and hate are failing to fill that need now, and will fail us even more down the road.
For a better world we need to do more than promote science and fight supernatural religions, we must promote rational shared moral values like those advanced by Humanism. Otherwise, individuals or groups will feel free to exploit scientific advances for their own gain at the expense of society.
Sorry about the preachiness. I guess 48 years of Sunday morning church attendance has imprinted a rhythm in my brain that I can't shake.
If the Zeiss planetarium is an overhead projector, then I suppose the Hubble is a pair of binoculars.
What's the LHC?
A very large donut. Don't tell Homer Simpson that though.
Which of the seven definitions of "hoople" is intended here?
"why is it that the people who claim to adhere to the culture of life are so filled with hate for...people?"
I'd guess that if they're worshipping gods, then mere mortals aren't worth a candle.
They're deeply flawed, jealous, genocidal, petty minded, capricious, and irrational. The humans are just as bad, but can't do the magic.
I have a great difficulty when I personally encounter such arguments of any hope of remaining rational and usually devolve into some kind of a fool screaming incoherent insults and unconnected ideas!
These people scare the shit out of me. They are at the root merely bullies and do not really believe in anything except themselves and will do anything to "win the argument" including physical violence.
I would pray if there was any use to it but I can only watch.
You know, for allegedly being Christians, Sarah Palin and McCain don't take the 8th commandment very seriously.
So she was only denigrating a study which attempts to solve a multi-billion dollar problem for US businesses. That's much better.
Just like McCain attacks that Montana grizzly bear DNA study which showed that grizzlies are doing well there and therefore allows the opening of land for commercial use, therefore allowing tens or hundreds of millions of dollars of business use.
I see.
This makes me so sad. Sad for what the United States has allowed itself to become. Sad because the people of the US will accept this disgusting behaviour and thought process.
I'm glad that I have dual citizenship with another country. I am so close to removing myself from the United States. Is there hope? Or has the right wing ruined everything?
There's an old joke among some of the more enlightened of the faithful:
Bullseye PZ. Bullseye!
Well said.
Elizabeth said, October 26, 2008 12:54 PM:
This makes me so sad. Sad for what the United States has allowed itself to become. Sad because the people of the US will accept this disgusting behaviour and thought process.
I'm glad that I have dual citizenship with another country. I am so close to removing myself from the United States. Is there hope? Or has the right wing ruined everything?
Take me with you, please?
On a lighter note :)
http://www.palinaspresident.us/
Considering her background, Palin can't be faulted for being clueless on fruitflies. She should be faulted, however,for failing to get professional scientific advice. In this respect she's (blindly) following the Bush administration.
As a Brit, I hope America regains its collective senses after the sheer, staggering acid-trip idiocy of Bush. But I'm not convinced. So many outpourings of bile, so much hatred, so much irrational nonsense. Perhaps this is really 'it' for the USA. Amid an economic meltdown, voters might elect a vain old cynic with a short fuse and an ignorant narcissist in a designer outfit.
Can anyone explain the Palin-autism meme? Was it just the McSame brainfart in debate #1? Far as I know her baby has Down's and the older kids are what passes for normal.
This is really strange for me, as this woman claims to be a proponent of research for special needs, but she ridicules research for special needs.
Republicans oppose research for medicine that can cure the most significant diseases of our time and she wants us to believe that she was making a specific point. Absolutely not.
Obviously, this has been said before in the comments, but I'll say it again. This woman is an idiot, and she got caught up in her own talking points.
I think you're missing the point. This is all good stuff. The more she opens her mouth, like Michelle Bachmann, the more votes she wins - for the other side.
Dkew:
McCain lumps all those people together. In his archaic brain, despite our designations today, they are retarded people. See, if you're a religious republican, children with mental disabilities aren't family members or even people who need help or understanding: they're trials sent by God. It's all about you, not about wanting to help them. If you try and help them, you're defying God's will and at the same time showing hubris.
Lets see...the fruit fly in question appears to be able to damage crops.hmm, So if I understand either the Republicans are looking for a "buzz word" to spread like wild fire amongst the gullible or perhaps it's another (fraudulin/freudian) slip.Someone appears to want a good ole' fashion round of pestilence.Some people just can't get enough (drama/suffering). Just a humouras thought.
P.S. How about a good ole' fashion swarm of locust?
P.S.S. By the way, to those of you who are concerned, the U.S.A. is still a Great country.Maybe our governmental system skips at times, but our determination and tolerance levels are pretty high.Regarding politics,It's time for the pendulum to swing back the other way.
I'm not familiar with there being a meme, except in the sense that she's trying to claim the title of champion for "special needs" kids, which is lumping autism and Down's, and some of the rebuttals to her statement have pointed out the use of fruit flies on autism research. I also suspect she's trying to plug into the highly motivated, increasingly prominent autism community for votes. Given her attitude toward science and the general conservative attitude toward vaccines and government mandates, I'm surprised she hasn't blamed vaccines for autism. Or have I missed that?
I really, really hate to defend Palin, especially since the intent of her statement was pure demagoguery regardless of the underlying details.
But, from a strictly pedantic viewpoint the conservatives are correct. Palin's use of "Fruit Fly" to refer to a Tephritid fly is the correct, orthodox use of the common name.
Apparently socialism is sometimes unpopular even among Obama supporters:
In a local restaurant my server had on a "Obama 08″ tie, again I laughed as he had given away his political preference-just imagine the coincidence.
When the bill came I decided not to tip the server and explained to him that I was exploring the Obama redistribution of wealth concept. He stood there in disbelief while I told him that I was going to redistribute his tip to someone who I deemed more in need-the homeless guy outside. The server angrily stormed from my sight.
I went outside, gave the homeless guy $10 and told him to thank the server inside as I've decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy was grateful.
At the end of my rather unscientific redistribution experiment I realized the homeless guy was grateful for the money he did not earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did earn even though the actual recipient deserved money more.
I guess redistribution of wealth is an easier thing to swallow in concept than in practical application.
From Hit&Run
@ Eric Atkinson
Come back to reality,you don't have ten bucks.
Eric, you are an asshole.
eric, nice story; except you just punished the busser, the expo, the host, the bartender, and possibly any other number of people who get tipped out by servers. not to mention that there's a tax on tips, so you're actually making the server subsidize your meal.
also, as an allegory for taxes it sucks and would be illegal, since you just performed an act of "double taxation", since the server will pay taxes on the tip you've "taxed" out of him.
you sir are an idiot.
also, it's pretty invalid, unless you've also donated the same percentage of your own income at least... after all the point of taxes is that everybody contributes a part.
Erik:
You know, when the left had a revolution in Barcelona in 1936, they banned the practice of tipping outright and raised everyone's wages so they didn't need to kiss strangers' asses to get by.
The correct point is that it's one thing to take from Bill Gates and use it to build things useful for everyone. It's another to take it from some poor schmuck who's making $3/hr base and give it direct to some random addict on the street.
Somehow I doubt you'll share these little tidbits with the next server, though, because you're an asshat.
"In a local restaurant my server had on a "Obama 08″ tie, again I laughed as he had given away his political preference-just imagine the coincidence."
On what planet does this sentence make any sense? Is it funny because you think he was trying to hide his political preference with that tie? You laughed "again"? What was the first laugh about? "Just imagine the coincidence". OK, I'll bite, what coincidence? That an Obama hater and an Obama supporter were both in a restaurant, AT THE SAME TIME?
Or did you, as I suspect, just make up the entire story to try to get under the skin of all the librul idjits here?
Your attempts at angering the lefties are getting weaker and weaker.
Hey dim wits! Anybody read the line "from Hit&Run?"
And it worked too didn't it "Huh?"
Eric, you are an asshole.
Speaking of trying "to get under the skin of all the librul idjits here:"
Check out Biden losing his cool. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQXcImQfubM
Lets ditch him,he'll never find us over
here.
I heard you the first dozen times you said that Janine.
Yeah, I saw that line after I posted.
But tell me again what worked? It's still an idiotic post and a waste of your time and ours.
EricA, you are presently reminding me of Baba. Baba got banned for just being a jokester, and not contributing to the discussion. If you quit trying for the snark effect you might get us to listen.
Heh.
Eat it, Rethuglicans.
Eric you are an asshole.
Worst political analogy ever. I mean, if your view of economics is this juvenile, then kindly stay the hell away from any voting booths.
"Hey dim wits! Anybody read the line "from Hit&Run?" "
Ah, I forgot, quoting someone else's words completely absolves you of any responsibility for bringing them to our attention.
OK... is this a science blog or a political propaganda blog?
Posted by: Eric Atkinson | October 26, 2008
I heard you the first dozen times you said that Janine.
Asshole does not even know how to count. I only said it twice.
Oh! Hi Patricia!
The way she has to point out that Paris is in France is also revealing of the intellectual level of her intended audience
Heh, Eric, I have a better story. One night as I was walking out of a take out restaurant with my dinner in a box, a homeless guy on the sidewalk asked me for money. Instead, I handed him my dinner, and went back inside and bought another. I felt good about doing good (instead of feeling good about hurting someone), the guy in the restaurant felt good to see me back, and the guy on the curb thanked me profusely as I walked past again on my way the car.
Redistribution of wealth doesn't have to hurt. And the story is true, too.
Oh, you might say that mine was a voluntary "redistribution of wealth", instead of the forced taxes. But I don't mind at all paying taxes, as long as I have some say in how the money is spent, or as long as I know the money is being spent well. It's when the money is wasted that bothers me. Giving food to someone who needs it is better than giving cash to someone who won't know how to spend it for his own good. And I assume that if someone is homeless he has already demonstrated that he doesn't know how to spend money for his own good.
Eric, the only thing that story proves is that you are an asshole.
Palin's folksy, delivered-with-a-wink dissembling is aimed squarely at a large bloc of voters who just happen to live mostly in small-town America. I know lots and lots of these people who are respectable, hard working and pretty good neighbors. I like a lot of them and a few I love dearly.
What makes them a specific bloc is their scientific and technological ignorance. They are not stupid, they just never learned about things like Ohm's Law, covalent bonds, chirality, orbital mechanics or the difference between a bacteria and a virus. Not understanding such fundamentals while being surrounded and directly affected by them and their applications appears to some, especially those enamored of ancient mythologies or "truths," as a vague threat issued from some cabal of necromancers. Modern medicine is a source of my trouble for some.
Along comes Sarah with her rambling, run-on, nondenominational delivery, her wry asides and insider winks to appeal directly to their angst. They are really quite taken by her. Their ignorance assures it.
Damn. And they are really nice people. If they were better educated, would they change their voting preference? Or would they not in order to stay secure within their part of the bloc? I can't say either way, but their acquiescence is more foreboding than the way they are taken advantage of.
Posted by: John Lloyd Scharf | October 26, 2008
OK... is this a science blog or a political propaganda blog?
It's an ice cream topping and a floor wax.
Told ya. Dog whistle phrases. I mean really, any time a Republican says the word "France", it should be a big red flag that they're bullshitting.
It reminds me of a few years ago, Bush Jr. was out West in the wake of a massively destructive wildfire season, and in criticizing forest management (because if we cut all those trees down, they wouldn't burn, duh), he referred to the fires as a "holocaust". The local newspaper's letters to the editor featured a slew of people complaining about Bush's usage of that word, but also a handful of sycophants who apparently did some research and claimed that the original meaning of "holocaust" had to do with "burnt offerings", and therefore Bush was correct. I thought, "Look me in the eyes and tell me that George W. Bush knew that." I wrote my own letter basically saying "A broken clock is right twice a day."
Meanwhile, I wish this election would pass already, because Sarah Palin brings out the worst in everybody.
"OK... is this a science blog or a political propaganda blog?"
It's a "Make John Lloyd Scharf Angry" blog.
Read the masthead. A bit of each. And, on occasion, a bit silly if the FSM is blessing us with his noodlely appendages.
Apparently cannibalism is sometimes unpopular even among Kodos supporters:
In a local restaurant my server had on a "Kodos 08" tie. I laughed, as he had given away his political preference.
When the bill came I decided not to pay and explained to him that I was exploring the Kodos cannibalism concept. He stood there in disbelief while I told him that he could make a meal out of someone who I deemed nutritious-the homeless guy outside. The server angrily stormed from my sight.
I went outside, told the homeless guy that the server inside was a Kodos supporter who wanted to eat him, and that if he went and told that Kang supporters, they would give him a free meal. The homeless guy was grateful.
At the end of my rather unscientific cannibalism experiment I realized the homeless guy was grateful for the meal he was going to get, and the waiter would be pretty angry that his restaurant would be burned down by a ravening horde of Kang supporters, who would then barbecue him in the flames of his own restaurant and eat him with hot sauce, sharing some with the homeless guy.
I guess cannibalism is an easier thing to swallow in practical application than in concept.
From Twirl&Slither.
Sorry. That sentence in #69 should read, "Modern medicine is a source of much trouble for some."
I should preview twice
Owlmirror, I do not buy that. I happen to know that Kodos and Kang routinely exchange strands of DNA.
It's not hard to figure out what kind of blog this is.
It's my blog.
I really don't understand those people who can't grasp this simple concept.
If you're giving money to people in need, why didn't you give to the server and the homeless guy? You do realize there are three people in this story, and one of them is you, the guy with the most money and the least need?
Honestly, compassion's like the fifth dimension to some people.
The problem is, politically this was NOT stupid. She was playing to her audience, and it worked. If you listen to the clip, the audience LOVED it.
Ah, another conspiracy conjugation theorist! Come on, Kang loves kids. You can't get more pro-family than that!
Whereas Kodos claimed to love kids... while drooling the whole time. And then asking what was for lunch. Clearly a cannibalism reference!
It may be snowing in Minnesota, but in Alaska a snowball of lies has grown into an avalanche. Do we really have to wait nine more days? Ugh.
Hi Janine! :o)
Palin is indefensible. There is no excuse for an American vice-presidential nominee to be this ignorant. Absolutely pathetic.
actually this has nothing to do with her or her supporters' intelligence level (this time); "The Former Colonies" (America, Australia etc) are chokefull of places named after places in Europe, so there's a whole bunch of Londons, Parises, Berlins etc. She was being specific, lest someone might think she WASN'T talking about that hateful ferrin place... and then she was vague about the research. which tells me she either wanted to be vague about it, or thought that just pointing out fruit flies per se would be enough. meaning she WASN'T criticizing a specific research, or a specific way of funding it, the way she WAS specific about criticizing the place where it happened. she was making fun of fruit fly research in general, using it as an example of "funding gone wrong"
and the way they talk about earmarks, you'd think it all goes to science... and they try to make that sound like it's a bad thing, too.
The proper word is 'hoopleheads' and was popularized via the late, great HBO series Deadwood as a term of derision for the throng of drunken, slovenly, easy to raise for no good rabble of miners in the boom town.
Here is an etymologic description of the word.
PZ said: It's my blog.
And it's also a wonderful MAGIC Blog. Scroll down and find a picture of an enchanted squid, and POOF!, it's a science blog.
Or find a picture of an evil hockeymom, and abra-cadabra, it's a political blog!!
It's fantastical !
Pat @ 43:children with mental disabilities aren't family members or even people who need help or understanding: they're trials sent by God.
Like kids with napalm all over them ?
Elizabeth @ 33,
As someone who also holds dual citizenship I have to admit, that I too, often find myself struggling with similar thoughts.
However at the end of the day I find hope by being with my friends and family and knowing that it would be cowardly of me to up and leave just because we are going through some very tough times.
Now is the time to stand up and fight if necessary for what we believe in. I also find inspiration in the likes of people who post on blogs such as this one.
There is still much good among the people of this country and there are bastions of rationality and humanity here seek them out!
We can all travel to our other countries when times are good, right now I think the America that I know and love needs me even more than my country of birth. But it sure as fuck ain't easy...
@56
I was absolutely happy to see Biden get frustrated with those ridiculous questions. Laughing in the face of that kind of idiocy is EXACTLY what people should be doing.
Time after time in this campaign McCain or Palin have made remarks whose attempts at later qualification come off as seriously disingenuous, to say the least (e.g., that McCain meant "the American worker" when he said that the fundamentals of our tattered economy were strong).
If she really meant that a specific study was flawed, she would have qualified it then and there, and not followed up with, "Fruitflies... I kid you not."
This is at least the second time that she or McCain have cited valid scientific research as frivolity and pork-barrel spending. And then these 'hats will, in the same breath, complain about the abysmal state of American science and math education.
I can only describe my feelings as rage. Utter rage.
Posted by: John Lloyd Scharf | October 26, 2008
OK... is this a science blog or a political propaganda blog?
What the last 8 years have clearly shown is that if we want there to be any science left 8 years from now, it has to become a political issue for the scientists too -- it surely has been for lots of other groups.
They are not stupid, they just never learned about things like Ohm's Law, covalent bonds, chirality, orbital mechanics or the difference between a bacteria and a virus.
No, they're stupid.
All that stuff was covered in their school texts/classes.
If they didn't 'get' it, it was because they stupidly believed that it was irrelevant to 'em.
I don't trust anybody who has never travelled furether than 100 miles from their birthplace to recognize 'relevant.'
Yeah, they're stupid, alright...
I went to a good, public high school in a middle class town in New Jersey in the 1960s. I was taught the difference between a virus and a bacterium, and about Ohm's Law and covalent bonds. I had to google chirality because I'd never heard or read the word before. I know a very little about orbital mechanics but only because I've read a lot of science fiction.
Most Americans have had little exposure to science, even in school, and understand less than they've been exposed to. Stupidity is not a major factor in this lack of knowledge, ignorance and poor education are much greater causes.
Given that McCain is so keen to help Joe the Plumber and his ilk I find it slightly surprising that spending $211,000 on research on an agricultural pest in its natural habitat is so derided. I suspect that while the tax breaks would be nice for the olive farmers methods of controlling the fly are going to be of significantly more benefit to them.
And if Palin had wanted to criticise using public funds to do research which will largely benefit private enterprise she could have added "all for the sake of a few olive farmers in California", which would still have pushed all the right buttons for the supporters, but wouldn't have made her look quite so ridiculous.
I've already posted this on my blog, but the more I think about it, the more convinced I am that the following inference is justified:
I look at the intentionality of Palin's statement, the way she emphasizes 'FRUIT fly research, from Paris, FRANCE.' See, she thinks this is a delicious triple whammy, since the France reference encourages a knee-jerk xenophobic reaction along the lines of 'un-American', while the use of the word 'fruit' is a code word for 'gay agenda.' And, of course, why would anyone bother spending tax dollars on something as insignificant as flies?
If you'd like to argue the point or make another observation, drop me a line at my blog....Scott
More fun from SNL.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/31695_SNL-_Biden_and_Murtha_Say…
I'll give you half a point, woody. Within any demographic there is a broad range of knowledge and understanding of good scientific discipline. Sure enough, that makes some of my ad hoc bloc of voters pretty stupid. The same may be said of any group identified by common characteristics like, say, people who comment on blogs.
While I've had the pleasure to know some highly skilled and quick witted redneck mechanics, I've also experienced the let down of highly credentialed professionals displaying ignorance and deep seated bias.
Something a little bit kinder then the Sturgeon Principle is called for, since my experience indicates that somewhat less than 90% of all people are stupid. Maybe we could postulate that, in any given group, a "distressing" or "frightening" or simply a "disappointing" percentage are stupid. We just need to have good working definitions for these terms. We could call it the Wood-Wrott Conjecture, or some such.
I agree with you about how stupid anyone can possibly be, but not that most of a given group is that stupid.
"Woody" A legend in his own mind.
"I don't trust anybody who has never travelled furether than 100 miles from their birthplace to recognize 'relevant.'
He suffers from the same fault that I do. poor spelling.
Eric if you leave your mommas basement, steal some lunch money from your grannies purse, and actually go to school you could learn to spell.
Patricia, go play with your Vienna sausage.
Time to go watch Dexter.
I never play with vienna sausages, it's bearded behemoths or nothin. Someday, when you're in big boy pants you'll understand. Run along now sonny.
PZ,of course you are right,as are the commenters that cry foul and point out the "fruit fly in France" rhetoric.
But we here are not the audience for this,we can cry and shout all we want,this sort of statement is aimed for the 80% of your population that are xenophobic,convinced the USA is the greatest country in the world,and hates the librul elitists.
And they hear the message,be it fruit flies or overhead projectors.
Cry all you like,elitists,they cant hear you.
Oh,and raven,this :
Military superpower,maybe,but economical,moral,scientific,innovative superpower,you are no more.
Commented at Sarah Palin: a Blithering Idiot Who Could Destroy Science and Medicine
Yeah - I've seen this "defense" of her statements as well.
Utterly ridiculous.
Pat:
"bearded behemoths "
More like 'hairless hyenas"
Whew! Lucky Sarah Failin didn't bring up the earthworms! She obviously isn't onto the money spent on all the research using those...those..shock..horror..immoral transgendered nematodes called Caenorhabditis elegans!
I'm sure there's some funding for agricultural research into nematodeas crop pests that could be used ambiguously as an obvious attack on some of the science underpinning biomedical research.
Yes well I think your reaction to this just showed up your own lack of research skills not to mention your bigotry and ideological tyranny. Good job!
Truly Eric, You are not fit to be one of Brownians basement dwelling step children.
I'm beginning to think that you are a Romper Room drop out.
Pat. If indeed you are "beginning to think," maybe you will stop with the child like insults.
And respect your elders.
Try to be more like Brownian.
Saint - You god soaked, 'moonbat' shit crazy christian, go pray to your blood drenched, woman hating, imaginary friend.
When you get done with that, come back and show us your dragons and unicorns. Show up with either one, and I'll mount the scaffold peaceably, so you can hang me as a witch.
Blog traffic whore.
Sonny, at five you are the elder of my dog.
Brownian, is most likely also my junior, but he can speak for himself on that issue.
You, toad, are entirely boring. Grab your binky, crawl off, and watch your TV show. It probably matches your IQ.
Children,have a bit of style,will ya.......
Oh,and Eric Atkinson,
I had a patient of that name yesterday,that was weird.He seemed pretty normal,tho.
I guess you weren't "beginning to think."
BTW, Pat. Do you have these insults filled away somewhere?
You seem to use the same ones over and over.
I thought Saint was a swishy boring british cop in black and white.
He stood out, instead of the Walther PPK, he packed a sausage from Vienna.
I'm beginning to believe if Eric is a truly suburb actor, fooling us all into thinking he's a complete moron with the intellect of a typical republican.
I doubt many people with the intelligent he shows could even turn on computer... unless, perhaps, it was a Mac.
Clinteas: I like to think I'm normal too. But being an Atheist and a Libertarian, I don't fit in anywhere.
But It's OK. Everyone need someone to hate.
Eric needs to proof read a bit better.
Speak for yourself mate.
Eric @ 116: being an Atheist and a Libertarian, I don't fit in anywhere.
oh puuuuuulllleze, it's just you and Penn Jillette, and that's it.
right.
There are plenty of atheist libertarians out there, including many on this blog. Being openly hostile to anything that doesn't fit the libertarian mantra is hardly going to endear oneself to a crowd of liberals.
EricA, we don't hate you. We are just very annoyed with you for disrupting threads with unnecessary mocking of everyone else. If you want be treated better, stop trying to annoy everybody. Add to the conversation, and if you have nothing to add, don't prove it by adding something.
Baba, who displayed some the same characteristics, was banned. So my advice, which I'm sure won't be taken, is to calm down a bit, and quit trying to be the class clown. We don't need one.
That is how children are taught the language Eric.
I hope PZ becomes bored to death with you soon, because I sure am.
End of comments to you short pants.
I took a visit to Saint's site. He is the type of guy to post photos of an abortion from during the second trimester.
And, yeah, he claims that the only scientists complaining about Palin's statement are scientiste. Not the real working scientist but, instead the students and teachers. And he links to this article.
Scooter - Check out the Saints blog, he's a christian traffic whore trying to play off PZ.
These people crack me up. They're so damned stupid they just HAVE to post their blog, and then they think no one looks at it.
First up, PZ.
What a dumb ass. He couldn't kick over a tote goat.
yeah, I have seen 'Saint's' site too.
Other than verbal diarrhoea he really has nothing much to post.
The use of his term 'scientiste' ..?(;-)) That's basically peni$ envy when he sees the (fully paid for) megamansion the (godless liberal atheist) tenured faculty who lives in his neighborhood can afford, or the Lexus he drives ;_). It must hurt when all praying to all of Saint's ten thousand Catlick Saints cannot assuage the sting of jealousy, unfulfillment and heartburn ....:)
After Nov 4 its going to get much, much worse I'm afraid. Palin will be remembered as the ethically challenged, intellectually stunted eye candy that she is and will be relegated to the dumpster of history.
Oh yeah, the atheist 'librul' 'scientiste's will be doing just fine, thank you.
PZ, I wonder if 'Saint' had flunked out of your class - hence the animosity ;-)
Hey Janine, I've lost track of the thread where some dumbass, three titted, christian sow was trumpeting that you need to sober up, and you drink alone, *gasp*!
err... I'm always ready to bosom up to the bar and consume the ol' grog and swill with you, until we stagger out into the gutter and loosen our laces to puke.
Gawd knows we'll probably trip over tsg.
Why would she belittle the efforts of scientists who are trying to combat a major agricultural pest, which does millions of dollars worth of damage every year?
Is agricultural research something which Sarah Palin sees as being trivial and unnecessary?
Why does Sarah Palin hate fruit?
Why does she hate fruit?
Because if you eat of it you could gain knowledge.
Patricia, #124, wrote:
I'm intrigued. What's a 'tote goat'?
Well Patricia. I have no idea where she could get such a notion. But I doubt she is imaginative enough to come up with it. As for the drink, I will be drink glug. We just had our first ice storm of the season and I want something strong and fruity and I can set fire to it before I drink it down.
I must say, I was unimpressed with Palin's remarks. Although, as a libertarian, I don't really like government spending on anything if it can be helped, I would concede that there are some research projects of great medical importance - which the private sector would not necessarily be motivated to engage in - which merit taxpayer funding, being in the long-term interests of everyone. While such funding must be carefully scrutinised, it isn't particularly helpful or constructive to say "ha ha, research on fruit flies, what a joke" as if such research were incapable of being useful, without having actually bothered to listen to the experts and find out about the practical applications of such research.
What worries me about Governor Palin is not that she is uninformed about the sciences, since I would admit the same of myself; rather, it's that she seems uninterested in learning, or listening to the experts, or evaluating things critically. Neither Obama nor McCain is a scientist, or an economist, or a foreign policy guru, or an expert in any of the many other areas in which the federal government is engaged - but both of them are intelligent people who are likely to listen, learn and evaluate. I'm not sure that's the case with Palin. And if she has this "don't know, don't care" attitude towards science, I'm worried that she might take the same attitude towards economics and foreign policy - which could be a total disaster for everyone in the world.
I'm actually increasingly leaning towards the Obama-Biden ticket. Though I have little respect for Joe Biden, I don't think he'd be as disastrous as Palin were he to become president (and there's far less chance of Obama dying in office than McCain).
Only less chance of him dying from natural causes...
Of course that's what she meant.
http://www.phespirit.info/montypython/oscar_wilde.htm
Why is someone in Sydney (apparently) so obsessed with the US election? Shouldn't he be out in the streets shaking his fist at Kevin Rudd?
Hah. Can't cope with the fact that you got it all wrong wrong wrong and just let your biases and bigotry get in the way. Palin, a politician, was talking earmarks. Hah.
Behold the purveyors of research and critical thinking.
Couldn't spot a fact under your noses.
You guys probably realise its Americans like you who give your country a bad name. And make the rest of the world laugh.
Thank God the majority of Americans have far more common sense and decency than you lot.
Explain why then Saint that the two most prominent things that MaCain and Palin want to highlight in that realm are scientific endeavors?
Why does Sarah Palin hate fruit?
Well, apart from their Biblical association with knowledge - which she evidently hates with a consuming passion - her mythical "Lord" was a fruit-tree hater, judging by the tantrum in which he is alleged to have cursed an entirely innocent fig tree.
saint,
You're a moron. Polls in just about every country around the world show that if the vote was in any of them, McCain/Palin would face complete wipeout. The world is laughing at those halfwit Americans who can't even see it's a bad idea to elect a semi-senile has-been with a serious anger-management problem and a creationist ignoramus.
Everyone need someone to hate. Eric Atkinson
What a revealing comment. No, Eric, it's not everyone - it's just people with the same kind of psychological problems as you.
By the way, Eric - do you still think McCain is going to win.
*Chortles*
Aussies would vote in Obama 2 to 1 over McCain. Not everyone here's a backward-arse retard like saint.
I just can't believe how much disdain for science she (and many of the GOP) seems to have. Where do they think medicine comes from?
The research was into a pest that threatened a growing California multi-million olive industry (very much growing - it didn't even exist a couple decades ago). There's a USDA research facility in France since they know tons more about olives then we do. The 700k earmark put 200k to this French effort. In other words, only 50k more then Palin's wardrobe. To research a pest that threatens an entire industry.
Its really a great example of earmarks done right!
Good question. I think these people have idealized the concept of life (well, human pre-natal life, very specifically) to the point that actual life--non-pre-natal, non-human, what have you--just gets in the way. Can't having anything blurring the lines between black and white.
Walton @131 "Neither Obama nor McCain is a scientist, or an economist, or a foreign policy guru, or an expert in any of the many other areas in which the federal government is engaged"
May I point out that Obama taught constitutional law for 12 years at the University of Chicago Law School? I should think that Federal Law is one area in which the federal government is engaged. And unlike McCain and Palin, he's smart enough to listen to experts in other fields.
Walton #131 says, "I'm actually increasingly leaning towards the Obama-Biden ticket. Though I have little respect for Joe Biden, I don't think he'd be as disastrous as Palin were he to become president (and there's far less chance of Obama dying in office than McCain)."
That is a pretty persuasive argument, isn't it? One can almost throw everything else out on this one fret alone. Almost.
But don't forget the rest of it: just how capable, competent and "America First" can anybody really be who puts the country in that kind of potentially disasterous situation in the first place? That particular sewer is backed right up to the source.
Now the argument is complete. You may proceed to complete your leaning.
Wowbagger - Sorry, I missed your comment.
A tote goat is a little miniature, rudimentry motorcycle from decades ago that is tough as hell, can go almost anywhere, and is favored by hillbillies every where.
They have a small Briggs & Stratton engine, it has one spark plug and one jug.
So the compression on the thing is small - meaning that a man doesn't need much lead in his pencil to kick the thing over (start it) - compared to say an old Harley shovelhead.
To any hillbilly boy over the age of five, it's fightin' words.
If even the French think a potential future leader's foreign policy is "utterly immature" and comprises "formulations empty of all content" ,this is more than just "problematic" for the ones who want the One who wants to heal the world.
Unless you think, laughter is the best medicine. In which case: send for the French fruit flies!
(And remember, Obama picked Biden! Bwahahahahaha!)
Obama the "law professor" - appointed straight out of uni, with no academic search process and under no research obligations. Do you actually know how many courses he taught when he wasn't on leave of absence?
And do you know what he thinks of your Constitution? Take it from another American who quotes Obama's actual words:
I wonder how Palin justifies her earmark request for genetic studies of harbor seals. Is it because they are somehow cuter than grizzly bears and fruit flies?
I'm surprised she didn't bring up the fact that the research was for California olive growers. Not only could she have gotten in her dig about Paris, France, but she could also have scored points for highlighting the fact that the farmers benefiting from the research don't even LIVE IN AMERICA!
saint,
The quote you link to is nowhere near socialism - as a democratic socialist, I know that. All Obama appears to be saying is that the courts are not the appropriate arena in which to pursue economic redistribution; that political organisation and action (like coalition building, fighting elections, lobbying, crafting legislating) are essential if that is your aim. He does not say, at least in the text quoted, that the courts should have pursued redistribution or that the constitution should be changed or reinterpreted to allow them to do so. If that's the most alarming statement of "socialism" the NRO can come up with, the campaign to brand Obama a socialist is truly pitiful.
In any case, you and your fear-mongering, theocratic and racist friends are going to lose, and lose big. Do come back and post on November 5 so we can all laugh at you.
Saint. You're a joke. NRO? Really?
Obama was Editor of the Harvard Law Review. ANY university would be happy to have him teach constitutional law. He's a truly inspiring and incredibly smart man.
Bush? McCain? Palin? Not so much.
Obama was saying that the Warren Court wasn't radical and basically if it had taken steps to redistribute wealth, it WOULD HAVE BEEN RADICAL.
He's agreeing with conservatives, you tool.
Reading comprehension isn't so important to these guys.
Reading comprehension isn't so important to these guys.
Is simple. Obama use word that not Yang worship word. Clearly he pal around with Kohms.