George Docherty, a pastor who claimed to have been responsible for convincing congress to stick "under god" into the pledge of allegiance, has died. In his honor, and a fitting honor it is, AOL is putting up a stupid poll: Should the phrase 'under God' be in the Pledge of Allegiance? Right now, the voting is 89% yes, 11% no. How about jazzing up his memorial with a rebuke?
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Easy. We all know the answer to this one.
Should 'Under God' Be Removed From Pledge Of Allegiance?
Yes. 45.3%
No. 52.4%
I don't have an opinion either way. 2.2%
Here's the other side: Sarah Palin made some policy statements in her run for governor, so we can see what to expect. She's pro-ignorance and anti-civil rights all the way, opposing gay marriage, sex education, and reproductive rights for women. No surprise at all, I know. Here are some answers…
I love getting these "action alerts" from religious right legal groups. At least once a week I get a breathless, hyperbolic email designed to push the emotional buttons of their followers and get them worked up into an unsightly froth. The Thomas More Law Center's latest news alert takes aim at an…
Citizens of the great state of Texas, where I now live, are very proud of their state. Proud enough, in fact, that they've got their very own state pledge of allegiance. We found out about this a few months back while we were researching schools, because every morning all public schoolchildren in…
Yes, o my master. I read, and I obey... Must cast vote in pointless poll.
(Maybe a couple o' times. Who's counting, after all?)
Quick quote dump:
"What then of the honest atheist? ... He cannot deny the Christian revelation and logically live by the Christian ethic, and if he denies the Christian ethic, he falls short of the American ideal of life." (Rev Doherty, in sermon that inspired adding "Under God" to the Pledge)
"...once a person admits to not believing in God, this raises the question of whether or not that person believes in America . . ." - - [Chief spokesman for National office of the Boy Scouts]
On June 14, 1954, by act of Congress, the words "Under God" were added to the Pledge of Allegiance with President Eisenhower explicitly declaring the religious purpose of that legislation. "From this day forward, millions of our school children will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our Nation and our People to the Almighty," said Eisenhower.
"Our government makes no sense unless it is founded on a deeply held religious belief - and I don't care what it is." (Eisenhower)
For those who might be interested, AOL uses six cookies for anyone who votes on this poll. If you remove all of them, you can vote again.
"...once a person admits to not believing in God, this raises the question of whether or not that person believes in America . . ."
And yet if a person had an allegiance to neither he would have no trouble falsely swearing allegiance to either. I guess the oath only works on traitors who are morally opposed to fibbing.
Yes87%
No13%
Total Votes: 7,175
We've just gotten the story posted, and already the %s have shifted a little bit.
:)
must...pharyngulate...FASTER!
what was the firebug code for perpetual poll-voting, again...?
Hey, I caught one early! Usually these things are heavily in our favor by the time I read about them. I shall enjoy watching the tables turn.
I love poll-fucking.
15% 'No' so far.
Actually, AOL adds 14 cookies...
hmm....the yes votes are rising quicker than the no votes. seems we're not the only ones poll-crashing
Classy.
I don't see a poll :\
AOL polls are notoriously tough to Pharyngulize. They've got a massive crowd of god-soaked idiots making up their users.
Sam @ #13
Are you running Firefox & NoScript? Or otherwise have javascript disabled?
It's just under the picture, below them holding hands on my screen.
Update:
Yes83%
No17%
Total Votes: 11,772
82% yes, 18% no as of right now.
I think some believer got wind of this Pharynulation because it's shifted back to 89%/11%
eh, it's not showing those numbers here Paul
Should the phrase "under God" be in the Pledge of Allegiance?
Yes
82%11,077
No
18%2,488
Note on Poll Results
Total Votes: 13,565
Yes, I think there are a few groups watching for my poll announcements, and motivating others to vote contrary to my position. It's OK. What they don't get is that my position is that these polls are hokum, and all they're doing is vindicating me by crashing the poll, too.
For some reason, that just cracks me up. I just picture some twitchy, gomer-esque sentry out there just waiting for you to make an announcement, and then it's off to email the hive.
It's Ned Flanders, up late, documenting the offensive bits...
up to 20% when I voted. Keep it up!
Yes 80%
No 20%
Skewer away, folks.
The Pharynguation has begun!!!!BWAAAAHHAAAA!!!!
Pharyngulation!!
I'm gonna be honest. I don't have friends as most regular people do, thus I have nothing to do tonight then sit here and vote.
I've never liked the "under god" because it contradicts the very next word "indivisible". Will a million denominations divided over what's right, you could only be indivisible if one of them was made dictator.
It don't matter..according Rabbi Shifren we're all Mormons!!
Well, when I first visited the poll, it was found within the context of the article. It was just a simple 'should god...in the pledge of allegiance' and you could click 'yes' or 'no'. Now, AOL has changed the format, showing the results immediately ad then having a link explaining that the poll is 'not scientific and only shows the percent of people who visit the website'. Hmm... I wonder if this would have been different if the 'No' hadn't gained so quickly on the 'Yes'.
Love to all. Keep up the awesomeness.
What is "AOL"?
AOL = America On LIne, at one time a very large internet service provider, now more into internet content. Equivalent of MSN or Yahoo.
I think some xians may be trying to crash the poll - I voted 4 times (just clear the cookie between each vote), Yes increasing faster than No.
1. Yes 14,619 No 3,759
2. Yes 14,635 (+16) No 3,766 (+7)
3. Yes 14,708 (+73) No 3,785 (+19)
4. Yes 14,766 (+58) No 3,803 (+18)
One more time
Yes 15,044 (+288) No 3,890 (+87)
By your command. Done...
The scale tips back, as Christians justify their actions. "Thou shalt not bear false witness" was clearly not intended to apply to internet polls, after all.
Or maybe this one poll is seen as more important than the eternal torture of their souls.
Or maybe they just don't really believe.
Whatever, the scale tips back.
Over 20,000 votes now - we are still getting outvoted. Compared to report by Kassul in #18 -
Yes 15,844 (+4,767) No 4,169 (+1,681)
So we are being outvoted 3-1. We can close the gap to 75-25 but no better UNLESS WE GET EVERYONE VOTING!!!!!
I feel he deserves some sort of lifetime irony award for splitting up the phrase "one nation indivisible".
Or maybe that's an acknowledgement that religion is divisive like nothing else?
Damn, this is a regular poll-crash war. And we're losing!
This is AOL we're dealing with. Even our numbers might not be able defeat this level of stupidity.
does anyone have a good script for Firefox to use for this poll? I am a bit tired of clicking back and forth. I don't participate in poll crashing much, but this one is worthy of my attention.
Pharyngulators!
Mount Up!
The question is not, "Should God be in the pledge?"
It's "Should there be a pledge of allegiance?"
No matter what you put in or take out of the pledge, it's still a stupid exercise in brainwashing.
clicked, voted, clicked, voted, clicked, voted,
Gasps for breath
clicked, voted, clicked, voted,
Pant, gasp,
Clicked, voted, clicked, voted,
Gasp, I don't know how much longer I can hold out.
Clicked, voted, clicked, voted
Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more
Clicked, voted, clic..., vo...
Slump
Tell mom I love her.
maybe it should be changed to "under all gods and goddesses and minor dieties and Sacred Squids"
Fight! Fight! Fight!
Poll fights! ^_^
Not that it matters whether we are winning or losing. So pointles...
This is the first time I have taken part in 'pharyngulation.' The pledge itself is evil, let alone the phrase 'one nation under god.' I quit saying the pledge shortly after I learned it because I realized (even as a grade schooler) that I did not believe it.
Good advice there, with the cookie deletion.
For those who don't know:
1) Vote "no."
2) Go to tools > internet options
3) Under "Browsing History" choose "Delete"
4) In the new window, click the "Delete cookies" button
5) Refresh, revote!
6) Profit!!
Note:
Deleting all your cookies means your sign-in information won't be saved the next time you visit your favorite websites - but it'll be back again the next time you sign in there and choose "remember me." :)
**YAY**
I love poll crashing! :-)
Crash the GOOD READ poll above the comments too!
Oh hey cool! A pledge poll thread! Can I pledge that I'll be celibate until marriage here???
Oh wait I'm already married, nevermind. *whew*
Anyway, what are we voting on?
If you have a web browser that you don't use, then you don't have to loose all your cookies to keep re voting.
I use Mozilla Firefox, but I still have a copy of internet explorer on my computer that I never use. So I'm just using internet explorer too keep voting and delete cookies and history, then revote, etc., etc., etc.......
Come on people, we need as many people to keep revoting as fast as possible..........
Come on guys, I'm clicking and voting, and clicking and voting, and clicking and voting, etc, etc, etc, etc.
Everyone help!
Crashed it. "No" was up to 22%. We may yet win this.
And yes! Why do we have a pledge anyway? Always seemed weird to me to make children who have no capacity to do harm to the US take a loyalty oath.
Come on guys, I'm clicking and voting, and clicking and voting, and clicking and voting, etc, etc, etc, etc.
Everyone help!
23%!
Google's browser has this thing called incognito browsing.... no cached cookies...
If there was no pledge all American children would turn into pinko commie homosexual atheists! DUH! What outfit are you with, soldier?
To #55....
Ooooh, which browser is that? chrome????
Please tell me, and I will egt it right away :-)
You guys should totally look into curl.. "curl -d " lets you post info from the (linux/unix/mac osx) command line and only saves cookies if you tell it to.
I've taken the advice - I'm browsing incognito with google chrome and set it to block all cookies. Vote, refresh, vote, refresh, awesome!
I don't know much about cookies, techies, so - is it possible for the blocking of all cookies to prevent my vote from being counted?
*yay*
I love Google Chrome!!!!
Yes, Chrome. Copy the vote page link addy and the Ctl-Shift-N to create an Incognito window, Ctl-V to paste the link, press enter, then scroll down and vote. You have to close the incognito window after each vote.
jbs
While crashing this puppy - Firefox - vote - tools - clear private data - check box marked cookies - right click reload - vote again. It looks like the godbotters are out at 2300 hours PST. It was 77% YES and 23% NO but the vote totals were running 2 to 1 Yes - for every 1 I slapped on there, there were 2 for the bad guys show up. May be a duel to the finish. Come on Pharyngulites, lets show them what we got!
I know we have a strong second shift coming up from our Aussie friends. Show me what Foster's or KB Tooth's fueled voting can do!!
In the "incognito" window, in Google Chrome:
Choose the wrench icon in the top right, choose options, choose the "Under the Hood" tab, and then under "cookie settings" choose "Block all cookies."
As far as I can tell, my votes are still being counted and all I have to do between votes is refresh the page.
Yeah, we're doin it!
Works canceled tomorrow, so I can do this all night!
Thank you for the tip. I think I've gotten dozens of votes in now.
*woo hoo*
24%
Got it up to 24% now.
Crash on brothers and sisters!
Yes
76%20,481
No
24%6,332
Note on Poll Results
Total Votes: 26,813
Hmm. There wasn't a 'Hell no' option. Damn.
I'm averaging about 12 votes a minute. If we can get 118 people to do this for 10 minutes each we will get what they have now. Come on, let's do this people!
Damn, the other side is sure hitting this poll hard as well!!!
You know, I have noticed that sometimes after I vote, the number for "no" hasn't changed. Are we sure that these repeat votes are getting counted?
A shout out to any of you who may be digg users:
http://digg.com/political_opinion/AOL_POLL_Under_god_in_the_Pledge_of_A…
digg it! :)
Everyone is voting 'no' right? It would be embarrassing if all those 'yes' votes are coming people who were confused.
Shamar - I was worried about that too, but then found that the "note on poll results" says the results aren't in real time. It seems to sit still for a while, then jump up 10 or so votes at once. No worries!
now yes is down to 76%! must continue saying no!
25%!
Damn, that 25% mark is evasive!
Nevermind...keep it up...........
No
No
No
No
No
...
Dang! I didn't want to have to stay up an extra hour tonight. The Google Chrome works great for this!
Gentlemen, ladies, we have achieved 25%.
You may celebrate when you've doubled that.
Get back to work, slackers.
Oh oh, looks like someone isn't happy with the way the poll is going. Here's some motivation to keep everyone voting.
Gryphon10,
Note: Reading the comments to the article will make you very, very sad.
I've been voting non stop for two hours, and I'm not going to quit tonight till I see the results that I want! I'm in it for the long haul people (the only time that I've stoped is to post here!). LET'S GET EM!
And, to #81, the comments don't make me sad. The comments make me more determined......
Feynmaniac - what makes that quote even more special is that I'm not even American in the first place (I just love you guys)! I guess I'm off the hook. ;)
This is nuts. I'm only voting 100 more times. Then to bed.
Better yet, abolish the pledge. Making kids recite a loyalty oath has always been pretty damned creepy.
-jcr
I blocked cookies for that site (copy paste the URL in the exclude cookies privacy option). Then it's just a case of refresh, vote, refresh, vote.
Well, it was 25% against last I looked...
So, that's the bastard who's responsible for allowing xians to run around and say that atheists are unpatriotic or "not true citizens" (remember George Bush Sr.)?
That bigoted statement is used by those circle jerks at every opportunity. See for example this cartoon by Answers in Genesis' artist Dan Lietha (yes, a more appropriate name I've never seen)...
Just hit 26%! :D
Priceless sidebar item at the poll page:
It just broke 26%
Yes - 21,900
No - 7,523
We're making a difference...
OK. There's 50 votes and we're at 26%.
50 more ...
I recommend the use of something like this:
http://www.autohotkey.com/download/
Okay, #93....I'm working on it, can you tell me how to use this program?
Please, any instruction would be extremely helpful. If I can get it working, I'll let it run all night.....
And to think I coulda' got laid tonight. Gads! Mrs. Docherty's starting to look good.
30 more ...
... 99, 100.
I'm spent.
Good night all.
Thanks, Mrs D.
XXX
Okay, #93....I have that hotkey program running. I'm running like 8 at the same time, and they should run with constant repeat voting all night. I hope that more people on here will do the same.....
Thanks....
#94:
Use the AutoScriptWriter that will be in your start menu after installation. Much easier :)
I can't figure out how to tell if the program is doing what it is supposed to do. How do I tell?
Ah, someone beat me to it. Mouse recording software is the way to go. Along with Chrome Incognito...
I'm using http://www.axife.com/axmrec/
The demo is fine for our purposes.
Voted - no up to 27%....seems the Pharyngulization of this one is taking a bit longer than usual - but there seems to be plenty of "yes" activity too....22,549 yes votes now !! Oh dear.
Rog
My vote is in, but this is going to be difficult :)
Shamar #99
You know it's working when you see the mouse moving and clicking on screen like you told it to.
Took me a bit to figure it out too. After you get it to work once, add:
Loop
{
}
so that it will loop indefinitely, with your program inside the brackets. Also, you might want to add a delay at the end before the loop restarts to make sure the window has time to catch up, if it restarts too quick the script will stop. Add delay with:
Sleep 15000
which is in milliseconds, so 15000 is 15 seconds, modify to your needs.
And be sure the sleep command is INSIDE your loop brackets.
Whoops, there's a comma in the sleep command:
Sleep, 15000
What I always found hilarious, is that the justification for adding "under God" in Docherty's sermon resides essentially in this paragraph :
So there you have it, if you're not a nation under God's protection, you end up being the same as communists. As simple as that.
Now that communist USSR doesn't exist anymore, you'll find the reactions in most comments of the ignorant folks will be to justify it against "socialist Europe" (thinking of France, Germany and Scandinavia of course).
In other words, God protects America from "socialism", or you don't need social welfare if you've got religion : that's what's been endoctrinating generations of Americans since then. That was the purpose, and it has been rather succesful.
Yes
73%22,805
No
27%8,349
Total Votes: 31,154
George Docherty - another excellent argument FOR abortion.
And the rest of the godfuckers seem rather busy.
GET THE CRETINS, PHARYNGULITES!
It's still 73% in favor of sticking the magic fairy into the Pledge of Allegiance. I bet most of Idiot America wants god in there. Wouldn't it be nice if more people respected the Establishment Clause in the Bill of Rights. Our country is infested with churches. Why do the Christian retards want to stick their idiocy everywhere else?
Notice that it is the two crappiest,and most racist against the indigenous population countries in the 'Western' world that have the staunchest Pledge of Allegiance, Australia and USA.
The rest, well, - live there and be a good citizen, and THAT is your pledge.
Yes 72%
No 28%
The bots on both sides seem to be flat out, with the xtian bots perhaps rather faster. If our side can match them at just 1 for 2 it should take us close to 33% in the long run. If we can get our bots going at 1 for 1 we might even start to approach that magic 50%.
American Pledge of Allegiance always seemded weird to me...
If I move to the US, will I have to take it?
Also, would it be alright if I (or anyone else taking it) replaced "God" with "Eris"? (Or Odin or Zeus or Ahura Mazda or...)
I would love to know if there are actually any honest Christians voting on this poll - meaning Christians who believe in doG, but recognize America being a secular society in it's very foundation...
There's no option for "Stick your pledge of allegiance where the sun doesn't shine!".
Shonny, what is Australia's pledge of allegiance? I didn't know we had an official one. I've never said it.
Because of ignorance : cultural isolation, exceptionalism, and religious endoctrination since childhood all make sure that they are incapable of thinking critically about this.
1.cultural isolation = how many American travel abroad, or have access to impartial information about foreign cultures, most of them have no clue about the fact that godless countries such as France, Japan or Sweden have higher life expectancy, lower crime rates, lower abortion rates, better health care, lower obesity rates, less poor and comparable median standard of living... They're convinced that godless countries are a living hell. They're "socialist", can you imagine ?
2.exceptionalism = permanent reinforcement of the notion that America is the greatest country on earth, it works hand in hand with the first point
3.and now the rationalization for all of this, of course, is God's protection, America's relgiosity is the reason for its success and is indistinguishable from the American way of life.
"...once a person admits to not believing in God, this raises the question of whether or not that person believes in America . . ."
Errrrr, I've seen America, but I haven't seen, (or heard, etc.), any feckin' gods. But I'm not crazy.
@Shonny:
Actually, as you can see here the bit about 'god' is completely optional in our (the Australian) Pledge of Committment.
Good riddance to bad rubbish.
The idiots are ahead, 73%-27%, as of 0426 CA time...
Couldn't vote again. AOL is teh suxxor...arrg.
Well, after all, this is something most USAnian children recite every day. With great care and attention to the meaning of every word. I can remember from my own schooldays the daily rhythmical chant of "I pledjuh leedjuntz ... tootha flag ... of th'yew Nynud Staytz'va Mairca. Antootha republic ... for wytchit stanzz ... wunnayshon ... unnergawd ... innavisibul ... with libberdy'n justitz frawl." And what would it be without the unnergawd part?
Charlie #117,
but the Australian Pledge of Commitment is not used for the same purpose as the American Pledge of Allegiance. The equivallent would be the American Oath of Citizenship, where the God bit "so help me God" is also, like in the Australian case, optional.
@#109, #117
Wait, what? We have a pledge now?
Legally, you never have to say it.
Realistically, you never to say it, unless you're a young child in school. Then you might get hassled if you declined. I can't think of many other occasions where it's recited at all, although the national anthem is played everywhere, and some people might bother you if you don't at least stand for it (but I think most will just assume that you're lazy, and not care).
Some politicians made a great show of reciting the pledge after Michael Newdow's challenge to it, e.g. at the Capitol, but I don't think it comes up normally.
What pisses me off is not that god bit, but having to pledge anything. Also, detest that stupid test to see if you know enough about the Australian way of life (with remarkably little [as in 'nothing'] about the atrocities committed against the indigenous population, about the concept of Terra Nullus, about the in-grained racism, and about the general land rape that has gone on for 200+ years).
And to think the pommy cow (aka 'the queen') is still 'head of state' in Australia, - yuk!
Lastly, Australia has also the real asshole of this planet, - Perth, WA.
Okay, feel a lot better now! /*deep breath again
As of 5:10a pacific time:
73% yes
27% no
with just under 39k votes in.
This one might be a fail for us. Now, if we can egnor sorry, ignore football a bit today we might be able to pull this out.
I think it might be required at the ceremony when you become a naturalized citizen.
In firefox:
Tools: Options: Privacy Tab
Exceptions
Add aol.com (disable)
Add webcenter.polls.aol.com (disable)
Close
Now you can vote and refresh without deleting anything. Much quicker. Oh, you must delete those cookies by hand one last time.
Many years ago, a wag quipped that AOL was "the greyhound bus on the information superhighway".
I don't think PZ has enough minions to correct this poll, but at least the Christian infested AOL website lets people leave comments. It's a great opportunity to tell the Christian theocrats what they can do with their Jesus.
Nope, that's the Oath of Citizenship (text different and God bit is optional).
I'm Australian, and have never heard of any sort of pledge.
I'm also offended by the poster calling Australia 'crappy' and 'racist', misguided on both counts.
Shonny,
If you're Australian you don't have to pledge anything.
SecretMeetingRoom,
The pledge of commitment is only used as an Oath of Citizenship for those who aren't Australian and wish to become Australian citizen.
It has absolutely nothing to do with the American pledge of Allegiance, which is a (nonsensical) loyalty pledge of Americans to their country.
Posted by: shonny @ 109 "Notice that it is the two crappiest,and most racist against the indigenous population countries in the 'Western' world that have the staunchest Pledge of Allegiance, Australia and USA."
Australia's Oath of Affirmation: I, (name), do solemnly and sincerely affirm and declare that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to His/Her Majesty (monarch's name), Her heirs and successors according to law.
Oath of Allegiance: I, (name), do swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her heirs and successors according to law. SO HELP ME GOD!
You can choose which version you want to go with. I'm not sure what you meant by 'staunchest Pledge of Allegiance'. Ours don't seem that bad.
If the christians insist on a loyalty pledge to their god, I think we should expand it to cover other deities and have "under allah" in january, "under krishna" in february, under "tuurngait" in march... You need to sponsor all the gods not just the christian god. Exclusionary bastards.
Well, 36 years and the closest I've ever got to Pledging anything is:
"This ere is the wattle, the symbol of our land, you can stick it inna bottle, or ya can 'old it in yer 'and! So help me, Bruce!"
The Pledge itself was originally written by a socialist and accompanied by a salute identical to the Nazi salute (though it predated the Nazi salute).
As of this moment, we've got it up to 26% "no."
Some of the comments are amusing, too...
The pledge was written by a minister, a Baptist/Christian Socialist named Bellamy.
aol just added another couple of cookies to my firefox list:
eatps.web.aol.com
news.aol.com
Not sure if they both matter but I added them to my exclusion list so I could continue the crash.
I for one don't get this "pledge of allegiance" thing. At all. It strikes me as absurd. I understand civil servants can be compelled to take this pledge. But ordinary people ? That's just crazy. Feels like brainwashing.
They finally figured out how to resist the Pharyngula poll bomb: post your poll in the weekend!
I know that must be some of you guys in the comments over there. Anyone wanna fess up? :P
The US pledge, at least, beats the living shit out of the Texas pledge. Yes, you read that correctly .... Recital of the Texas pledge was mandated by our legislature a few years for all public schools, and then "under God" was added to it a couple of years ago.
"Honor the Texas flag; I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state under God, one and indivisible."
Won't someone think of the children??
Yes, Bellamy was a Christian Socialist.
So it's interesting to read the whole original sermon from Docherty, the one he gave in 1952 and which he delivered again in front of Eisenhower in 1954 and with which he convinced the President to add the "under God" to the PoA :
http://www.post-gazette.com/downloads/20020820sermon.pdf
Conclusion : original pledge (Bellamy) = generic socialist pledge
add "Under God" = American democratic pledge !
I mean this is just an obvious frame to brainwash the masses into thinking that as long as they have religion (God's protection) they don't need social welfare programs.
And as long as they reject social welfare programs, it keeps religion well rooted. Perfect !
Up against it im afraid - teh godbots r onto us !
Went back and the number of votes had shot up by 100 in just a few seconds lol !
Only 25% yes - great fun tho, cos im in the UK ha ha ha
Bah, no need to be concerned. For many of them, it'll be like this...
PASTOR: Why weren't you at church today?
SHEEP: I was crashing a poll to keep "Under God" in the pledge of allegiance.
PASTOR: If we lost that poll, would they ACTUALLY take it out? Seriously?
SHEEP: Umm... no...
PASTOR: Oh, so it was a pride issue, eh?
SHEEP: No... but the atheists...
PASTOR: Now come on... we have to have a talk about putting your own personal victories above the Almighty's... inside with you...
SHEEP: Baaaaaa...
there is little reason to think any online poll is accurate, regardless of whether we agree with the topic.
http://www.captcha.net/
Online Polls. In November 1999, http://www.slashdot.org released an online poll asking which was the best graduate school in computer science (a dangerous question to ask over the web!). As is the case with most online polls, IP addresses of voters were recorded in order to prevent single users from voting more than once. However, students at Carnegie Mellon found a way to stuff the ballots using programs that voted for CMU thousands of times. CMU's score started growing rapidly. The next day, students at MIT wrote their own program and the poll became a contest between voting "bots." MIT finished with 21,156 votes, Carnegie Mellon with 21,032 and every other school with less than 1,000. Can the result of any online poll be trusted? Not unless the poll ensures that only humans can vote.
11:18AM EST Sunday - 54,910 votes 75%/25%.
Have there been other cases where Pharyngula didn't swing the on-line poll? This is the first example I'm aware of.
Jackson.
What worries me is that I just noticed it's light outside!
I've been chatting with the godbots far too long. Exercise in futility.
Jackson, I suspect that it's just been a script battle for quite some time now. We may not have swung it, but it might be the most extreme example of ruining the validity of a poll I've ever seen. What little it had, anyway.
I'm not sure...the contest among voting 'bots' seems to me a fairly decent way to determine a top school in computer science, provided the students at the schools are notified :)
But yes, online polls are complete crap for opinion-reading. Doesn't mean it's not fun to stuff them.
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet.
The minister originally wanted to include the word equality in the pledge, but couldn't get it past the board for approval.
Didn't want the women and blacks to get all uppity.
God forbid they consider themselves equal to the white male.
I was bored so I voted 5 times.
Yes: 75% (41,728)
No: 25% (14,094)
When faced with a situation where compliance is the easy out, I use Matt Groening's version from his old comic strip "Life In Hell":
I plead alignment
To the flakes
Of the untitled snakes of a merry cow
And to the republicans
For which they scam
One nacho, underpants
With licorice and jugs of wine for owls
It can be hard to keep a straight face while reciting this.
It sucks that a person died, however, good riddance.
As it has been mentioned, here's more info on the Bellamy salute.
Flag worshiping nationalists always disturb me. We should be moving away from tribalism, IMHO.
the very point of PZ posting these
27% and counting. The voter numbers seem to be going up really, really fast.
Jackson, there have been a couple of polls we couldn't swing. There was a MSN poll before the election on whether Palin was fit to be President. That poll suffered some major bot voting after we started, and became totally meaningless. There were one or two others where there were 50,000+ votes already. We dented the margin, but didn't change the lead.
Anyone have the direct URl so I can just curl -d it? I'm tired of looking at him -- refresh, vote, refresh, vote...
We're holding at 27%
Yes 43,399
No, 16,226
Mmmmmm It even lets a European like me vote. Nice. My first experience with pharyngulation... 27% no, 73% yes. almost 60.000 votes cast.
Up to 28% but it looks like it'll be hard to move any more.
I believe by dogged determination this poll may still be successfully crashed. We have improved to 28/ 72% at my latest voting. That there are Baptobots (or other loony religious groups) watching PZ's poll crashing activities says something about theistic paranoia does it not?
Yes72%43,536
No28%17,224
Total Votes: 60,760
Yes72%43,537
No28%17,252
Total Votes: 60,789
Yes72%43,539
No28%17,282
Total Votes: 60,821
She's too powerful we can't break it!
I'm 67, and passed out of elementary school and the pledge before the change. I'll bet I haven't been prompted to say it a dozen times since. I still find it strange to hear the "new" version regardless whether I agree with it or not. Which I don't.
The votes for "No" are now coming in much faster than the xtians. Perhaps 10 times faster, or more. The percentages are currently 71% to 29%
Well, who can write the most effective bot is a way of measuring the best CS grad programme.
Voted.
Current poll numbers:
Yes71%43,591
No29%18,027
Total Votes: 61,618
An Australian pledge? What? Oh. Part of a citizenship ceremony. The most offensive thing about that is the queen. It's well past time for a republic.
Secretmeetingroom, sure, I wouldn't think Australia is one of the *most* racist countries. But we're a long way from being entirely innocent either. Modern Australia may have apologised to the Aborigines, (well overdue, thanks Kev) but their situation is still pretty dire. And remember the Cronulla & Maroubra riots? And the Libs playing up the racism in the whole sorry children overboard, Tampa, SIEV-X incidents. That's hardly ancient history.
I blocked 'em too.
Time to CHOMP!
Posted by: mr.ed | November 30, 2008 4:01 PM
I'm 67, and passed out of elementary school and the pledge before the change. I'll bet I haven't been prompted to say it a dozen times since. I still find it strange to hear the "new" version regardless whether I agree with it or not. Which I don't.
When I was teaching high school, recitation of the pledge was required in every home-room every morning (No, I never noticed any propagandizing students in school. Why do you ask?). So, as I was required to recite it, I had my students say the "Original," Bellamy version. I also ran a contest, awarding 'extra points' to the student who discovered the least well-known fact about the controversial document.
70/30 @ 62,006
Keep pushing.
Now I understand why PZ hasn't spoken for a while, and why comments are thinner on the ground than rocking-horse droppings - y'all fixing that POLL.
In less than 1hour:
Yes 61 votes
No 710 votes
' That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made,
And crowns for convoy put into his purse;
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Dec 1st!!!!
Courage mon braves..Billy boy knew a few things about that!
No "get rid of the goddamn thing altogether" option?
YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! VOTER FRAUD!!!!!!!!!!!!! I CHANGED IT BY A %!!!!!!!!!!! 11 YEAR OLDS HAVE POWER!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, but it looks like we can't win this one. :sadface:
69%/31%. It is looking better and better. At the current rate of polling, we might draw level. It seems the xtian bots have stood down for now, but if they fire up again we've no chance.
OK. I'm back for awhile. Lookin' good!
NO
NO
NO
NO
NO
....
We're up to 39% just under 20k votes. Keep up the dedication to pointless polls :-p
I've got 3 solid hours of lectures tomorrow. I might set up a mouse and keyboard macro to auto-vote the shit out of it during that time.
*pokes head in, looks around*
Carry on.
My fingers are tired. It needs about 700 more votes to trip over again from 32% to 33%.
Death.
It couldn't have happened to a more id10t guy.
Keep it up, my computer will be auto-voting all night....we will not be beat!!!
lol
Over 60k votes...
I guess the poll has been hammered enough to nicely show its bogosity no matter who wins.
No....WE WILL WIN!!!!!
Anything else is unacceptable!
33%. Wow. Pretty soon they won't be able to veto our veto lol! Keep it up, comrades!
Google Chrome Incognito mode rules.
Yup, I'm bout to crash, but my comp will be votin all night :-)
Keep voting damn it! 34% isn't good enough!
well, Noodly speed to all of you. i need to be productive today, and with that, i sleep.
Nor is 35% good enough, which is where it's at now. But the real clincher is that no-one will be able to claim what America thinks on the basis this poll. It is definitively and unarguably 'Pharyngulated'.
Vote all you want, this pastor was not responsible for added "under God" to the Pledge of Allegiance. That goes to the Knights of Columbus.
Now the "no's" are 36%. By the way, whose god exactly was he wanting us to deify during the pledge??
The Christian Post (www.christianpost.com) has a news article about George Docherty. Note that while one must join the site to leave a comment, no registration is required for voting on comments, and comments seem to attract a handful of votes at most.
@197 Another George: It would appear that some of those "comment votes" on the CP site (that sounds soooo wrong, what were they thinking of???... can almost hear the 5am knock at the door just for browsing it) have already become slightly Pharyngulated.
We're up to 39%...
Hmm, 37% now, are we just holding even?
Have noticed something with how AOL are tallying the votes... It seems they don't count re-votes from same source that occur within a certain timeframe.
To test this I've gone to an old poll (in politics section from 16 days ago), voted to get the tally popup to show and done the following:
Revoted => No change in tally.
Left it 5mins.
Refreshed tally => No change. Revote had not been not added.
Voted again => Tally up by one. New vote counted
Revoted once more => No change.
Left it 5mins.
Refreshed tally => No change. Again the revote was not added
Voted once again => Tally up by one. New vote counted.
Voted 4 times quickly => No change. 4 extra votes not shown
Left it 5mins.
Refreshed tally => No change. The 4 votes still not shown.
Voted once => Tally up by one. New vote counted
Left it 5mins.
Refreshed tally => No change.
Left it 5mins.
Refreshed tally => No change. The yet uncounted "missing votes" never turn up.
Then did some trial and error testing and found that if votes are separated by at least 30-40seconds then they are added to the tally but if the time diff between them is less than this they are discarded.
Upshot is that we may have been too smart for our own good with our well practiced "no cookies, vote, F5 then vote again routines". Whereas the low tech god-botting hordes who take a minute or so to clear their cache manually are getting their revotes through. May explain why we got hammered. Either that or it was "Jebuz wot did it!"
Safari doesn't finish loading the page until some seconds after I've voted. I wait until the progress bar clears, reset, go back and vote again. Seems to be working. Yes votes have stayed the same for several minutes, No's are going up.
Re: #30 "What is 'AOL'?"
"Army Of Losers"
Re: #14 "They've got a massive crowd of god-soaked idiots making up their users."
I hear that. I was kicked off AOL because (I strongly suspect) one of their employees, or someone with a connection to an employee, kept reporting me for "harrassment" until my account was cancelled. Trying to reason with Customer Disservice was useless. The kicker is, I had determined to drop AOL within months because I had broadband access through a local cable company, and no longer needed AOL to access the internet. I was only keeping it for an established email address and to engage in chatroom skirmishes -- but those were less and less fun. So the godbot saved me the trouble of trying to cancel AOL.
Re: #36 "I feel he deserves some sort of lifetime irony award for splitting up the phrase 'one nation indivisible'."
I have made that same observation; glad others see it, too. (#27's point is similar).
#200 - your observation that it is possible to vote long after the poll has ceased to attract fresh interest may be the key to eventual success. The xtian voting seems to have dried up completely, but the "No" voters are still adding votes. By my estimates we should overtake them about 48 - 72 hrs from now, depending on how many of our bots can keep running that long.
yes! Cyberterrorism is the best! 38%! His Noodles shall be with us as we prevail against the heathen Xains!
I dunno about you all, but I am still voting. Once every while I put in a few votes with Chrome. :-)
DON'T GIVE UP! We can do this if we all pull together!
You don't need Chrome to vote. Use Opera (www.opera.com), press F12 and disable cookies easily and on the fly from there.
It's more or less 28k vs. 44k so it seems some of us are still voting. Percentage wise we have close to 40%.
Y'all given up? I am still voting!
Isn't there someone who create some kind of voting bot?
Y'all given up? I am still voting!
Isn't there someone who can create some kind of voting bot?
I was just there. The website was acting weird.
A popup window came up, asking me to take part in a survey. I couldn't make sense out of their "privacy policy", which seems to be combined with an agreement of some kind, with provisions for "binding arbitration" in case of any dispute, and specifically mentioned "your breach of this agreement". Huh? What kind of "breach" could you commit taking a survey? It also seemed to be saying that some kind of software would be installed on your computer. I didn't want anything to do with this, so I closed the popup.
Then my browser said the site was still downloading data. 1 item, 2 items, 3 items... a lot more than I had ever noticed before. I couldn't figure out what was going on, so I quit the browser.
Anybody else noticed anything strange?
Seems like there are at least two or three of us still chipping away at this one.
Currently:
Yes 43,982 (60%)
No 29,431 (40%)
Total 73,413
Over the last 24hrs the gap has narrowed from approx 15,500 to around the 14,500 it is now. Roughly 1000 votes in 24hrs... 40 votes an hour.
At this rate two weeks to close the gap!!!!!... And that's assuming the god-botting hordes don't awaken from their slumber.
If any of you are running bots/macros/scripts then you will be wasting your time if the revotes are within 45seconds of each other. AOL just discards them (see post #200). So tweak that delay to 45secs or 1min and the gap should narrow considerably ;-)
Happy Skewing
AOL is aware the poll was skewed. But since polls are never accurate, oh well!
The only way to do this, em, "properly" is to script using wget, curl, or a HTTP library, each time using a different valid User-Agent string (since their own default ones are often banned) from a long list, go via an anonymous proxy network, so that multiple votes don't appear from one IP address, and draw the time between requests from an exponential distribution, so that there is no unusual temporal pattern in the requests. That would be a virtually undetectable and indefeasible way of smashing any poll single-handed.
For a few days before Xmas the poll went to 50-50, with the "Noes" just ahead by a handful of votes. The god-bots came back in and reversed that, just before AOL apparently pulled the poll from its pages.
I understand civil servants can be compelled to take this pledge