Legislators in the fine state of Oklahoma continue to gnash their grim and yellowed Christian tusks in frustration that Richard Dawkins was ever allowed to speak. He not only spoke openly, but was allowed to leave the state unscathed — not a single rusty thumbscrew was employed, nor was he burned at the stake. The university thinks that is just fine, but these cornpone dullards pretending to be representatives of American freedom just don't get it.
In a phone interview Thursday, Thomsen said the university has a right to bring any speaker it chooses, but is accountable to taxpayers. On behalf of his constituents, Thomsen wanted to present the opinion that Dawkins doesn't represent Oklahoma's ideals.
"They're not in a plastic bubble that can't be touched," he said.
Dawkins' approach doesn't present freedom of thought and opinion, Thomsen said.
"His presence at OU was not about science," he said. "It was to promote an atheistic agenda, and that was very clear."
Was Mr Thomsen at the talk? I think not, or he'd know that he was giving his "Purpose of Purpose" lecture, which was about the perception of teleology in biology and evolution. Or maybe he just assumes that any talk about science is promoting an atheistic agenda, a presumption that would not surprise me at all.
I'm really getting jealous. The best rejection I ever got was getting kicked out of a mere movie theater…and Dawkins has casually stirred the ire of an entire state. Are there any small nations that would like to outlaw me? I have to keep up.
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awrrrr.... Don't be sad, PZ. Did Dawkins ever get a praying piquet line, hmm? You got that too, you know!
And don't forget, you were kicked out... But hey, they let HIM in! That means you were kickworthy and not him! Fancy that!
Reading this makes the accomplishments of the Oklahomans for Excellence in Science Education all the more impressive. Thank you Vic, Abbie, and everyone else for defending evolution education against legislators like these.
You damn scientists spreading the religion of atheism!
Let's see, the IDiots say that evolution is "atheistic," and Dawkins largely agrees.
So Dawkins' agreement with the IDiots is a problem?
Or is it just that Dawkins tells the truth about the evidence? That seems to be the only problem, since the implications of evolution are largely what the IDiots say.
I guess the only problem these morons have is that someone would promote secience, then.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/6mb592
The legislature retards should announce that next time they will convene a special session to have their imaginary god speak personally to the entire state of Oklahoma and denounce Richard Dawkins for excepting the invitation to making the state the laughing stock of the nation.
"Will all rise and welcome our lord god. Er, where the hell is it? Is it trying to make us look stupid?" Morons.
Don't feel too bad. After all, what's the last thing Phil got kicked out of?
Should have been:
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/6mb592
too obvious but: THE VATICAN LOL!!!
If I was a douchebag politician, I'd do the same thing. How much in campaign contributions do these assclowns get from religious groups? And since you can't get elected as an open atheist, who are you gonna pander to?
I think you may be behind the 8-ball on the small nation thing, Dawkins is already "Banned in Turkey".
Yeah, freedom of thought. Like the freedom to think that oxygen is made out of evaporated cane juice.
Richard is more of an outspoken public figure that stirs up emotion wherever he goes. You PZ on the other hand is the soft spoken Teddy Bear kinda guy that writes a popular blog and obsesses about squids.
Work on the public area for a bit and I'm sure the fundies will bombard your university with demands to have you fired and taking steps to revoke your citizenship.
You can do it! We believe in you! :)
"'They're not in a plastic bubble that can't be touched,' he said."
Then he is very eager to touch them?
Whereas, Dawkins said the sky is blue. Whereas, we don't like this. Whereas, back to our plastic bubble.
@#8 Pony
"I think you may be behind the 8-ball on the small nation thing, Dawkins is already 'Banned in Turkey.'"
Of course, there is a reason why people are apprehensive about Turkey joining the EU.
Well, PZ Myers, I have not heard yet that you have published a book yet that voices your opinions on religion.
Well, Canada's been banning people lately (most recently, British MP George Galloway.) Not for being atheists, though. Can you give a pro-Hamas lecture or something? That should do it.
See P.Z., you're getting the hang of this religious lark after all. Everyone knows that you've got to be persecuted to be religious, and here you are begging to be persecuted. What's the infidel version of fatwah envy?
Face it, you rub some people up the wrong way, but Richard can pwn anyone when it comes to realy pissing people off. He's just so damned ... strident. Oh and shrill. Don't forget shrill.
We see again how the religious fear even listening to ideas that depart from their dogma. By flooding OU with document requests, they send the message that they will meddle with anyone remotely 'controversial'. How are the administrators, professors and students supposed to interpret this? The obvious result is to avoid having to defend someone like this and thus only inviting individuals that won't make the legislators wet their beds at night. They are nothing but thugs in cheap suits with an itchin' to silence what they don't like. It won't stop with Dawkins. They will proceed to political opinion they don't like. The university setting is a marvelous opportunity for student to broaden their horizons and hear the entire spectrum of opinion. This does nothing but trample over that opportunity
Don't forget the fact that Dawkin's Trophy Wife was on Doctor Who....
I think arekksu nailed this one... I think the Vatican is the most likely candidate for banning you. Especially if you decided to somehow combine cracker desecration with condoms. That would really rile the pope.
[T]here is a reason why people are apprehensive about Turkey joining the EU.
Yes, it's called bigotry. Admittedly, Turkey doesn't help its cause with stunts like banning various sites (or people? if it actually does that), but then again, much of the EU bans (as an example) support for nazis. (Just to be clear: nazi sympathizers are vile disgusting people.)
Some of the Turkey-not-in-the-EU nonsense is probably driven by Turkey being a predominantly muslim nation, which to my mind is a good reason to ensure Turkey is in the EU. And if it's not a good reason, then expell the predominately christian nations, since whatever argument you've got about admitting a predominately muslim nation also applies to predominately christian nations (with, perhaps, a few changes of name or other incidental details).
I think they're unclear as to the object of bringing in outside speakers when they complain that he doesn't represent OK ideals.
The object of bringing in outside speakers is so they can show you their outside ideas and ideals. If you want someone to represent yours, you don't need to bring in outsiders, do you. Of course, you don't really get higher education then, either.
Oklahoma where the wind whistles through Thomsen's ears*
*apologies to Rodgers and Hammerstein.
They call atheism a religion, claim that it requires more faith to believe the universe just happened (yada yada yada), and that we should respect their beliefs but they are the first to not respect ours. What a bunch of dumb whiny hypocrites.
Seriously, I think Dawkins ought to keep scheduling trips to Oklahoma. Just keep going back every month, if necessary.
If the Legislature votes to arrest him... GOOD! We need to test the stupid law that would allow the arrest of Dawkins.
Richard, we're on your side.
Reasonable people in Oklahoma, move away. That's my suggestion.
Thomsen is a real piece of work.
Orwell himself couldn't come up with a higher content of doublespeak.
Freedom of speech=Burning scientists at the stake.
Teaching the controversy=burning scientists at the stake.
Academic freedom=burning scientists at the stake.
"The're not in a platic bubble that can't be touched"=Cattle prods, gas chambers, and mass graves will take care of OU and their supporters.
god is love=And if the feds weren't there to stop us, we'd have massacred half the state's population by now and be starting on Kansas.
Really, another disgusting, evil fundie xian who gathered up a lot of hate, lies, and death, calls it god, worships it, and doesn't even wonder why people think he is nuts.
Guy was born centuries too late. No doubt he would be a member of the Spanish Inquisition and consider the Pope and cardinals soft on witches, heretics, and nonbelievers.
Yes, PZ, it's high time we had a fifth horseman. Get cracking.
You're jealous of Oklahoma? Really? Ok-la-homa? If you've ever been to Oklahoma, then you know, there's no reason to go back.
PZ: How about the Vatican? I'm pretty sure you could get yourself expelled (Hah!)
Defile a few more crackers. Maybe the Vatican City will ban you.
Maybe it would help if you changed your surname to "Octavius." That ought to get someone tingling!
FWIW, it is likely that Mullah Osama bin Thomsen and the Michelle Bachmann wannabe don't have any legal authority to do more than sable rattle, threaten and pray for an asteroid impact on Norman, OK or Cambridge, UK.
They aren't cops or judges, they are citizen legislators. Neither has any legal authority to so much as issue a parking ticket.
Just guessing without knowing OK law. This must be the state sport among the christofascist segment. Seeing who can out-Spanish Inquisition and out-Cardinal Bellarmo (sentenced G. Bruno to the torch) in the free speech event of the most evil tournament.
Frankly I would just ignore them. Troll feeding never works.
"Dawkins' approach doesn't present freedom of thought and opinion, Thomsen said."
... and neither does Thomsen's.
I sure hope OU doesn't try to get one of those physicists who have won the Templeton Award to give a talk on physics. Since they all see some sort of hint that there might be something divine somewhere behind it all -- and have come out and said so -- then their only purpose would be to promote a "theistic agenda."
I can't imagine atheists objecting to such a thing, of course, let alone using the legislature. If a physicist brought "the sacred" into a speech on quantum or whatever, I'd think we'd just want to go after them in the Q&A, and ask for specifics.
Well, PZ, perhaps if you published that book you've never gotten around to writing. Your sabbatical is the perfect time for that, no? If you do it right, you might get Texas to ban you as well! (at least, in the schools)
raven:
How, exactly, does one rattle a sable? Does one attach bells to it? ô.o
Hmm, if he wants to address an "atheist agenda", then he's going to also have to address every creationist presentation given too...
Herr Doctor Paul Zachary "PZ" Myers, Ph.D., is hereby ban from Liechtenstein.
They sound like a bunch of mobsters. It doesn't matter what their title is -- "plastic bubble" aside, the real message is this:
There's an excellent reason to go back if you missed the Wichita Mountains the first time. Or the Arbuckles, for that matter.
"Work on the public area for a bit and I'm sure the fundies will bombard your university with demands to have you fired and taking steps to revoke your citizenship.
You can do it! We believe in you! :)"
hah!
Oklahoma is our Iran.
Produces oil and gas--CHECK
Lousy, semiarid climate, cold in winter, hot in summer--CHECK
Run by crazed religious fanatics--CHECK
Hates the USA and its ideals--CHECK
"Nice university ya got here...be a shame if it were defunded..."
" If you've ever been to Oklahoma, then you know, there's no reason to go back.
There's an excellent reason to go back if you missed the Wichita Mountains the first time. Or the Arbuckles, for that matter."
I'm partial to the Ouachitas. I also really like the prairies but I study grasses. We have more ecological diversity than most states in the union. I mean 13 biomes, c'mon! On the other hand, we have a higher than average density of nutjobs, and not just the religious type. Oklahoma's a nice place, it's the inhabitants that ruin it.
I don't know if it has been mentioned but Todd "Rimjob" Thomsen is the chair of the house committee for Higher Education and Career Technology.
....yet he acts as if his beliefs are protected from touching by a plastic bubble. You can't have it both ways, Thomsen.
Ideals, huh? And they would be what, exactly? Gullibility, self-deception, self-delusion, willful ignorance, irrationality, intellectual dishonesty, lies, hypocrisy, and toxic, drooling stupidity?
13 biomes in OK? I think Az has that beat. :D
I lived in Tulsa for 8 months. It was almost as bad as Wichita......
gots to get me outta here....
One of the most striking examples of religious belief promoting cognitive dissonance that I've seen in a while.
"Dawkins doesn't present freedom of opinion! He shouldn't be free to present his opinion! Off with his head, and set it on York gates!"
It's true: alligators and pronghorns, 2 box turtles, paddlefish, bison, collared lizards, etc. I think there's some plants too.
Are there any small nations that would like to outlaw me?
A friend of mine has long been King-in-exile of Rhode Island. I crowned him and then his government recognized my cult. I'll see what I can do.
"His presence at OU was not about science," he said. "It was to promote an atheistic agenda, and that was very clear."
Speaking as an atheist, my only agenda is science.
No wonder ya got problems - it's like a mini florida mixed in with all the other stuff.
I wouldn't say he has the hatred of an entire state, just the idiots that are supposed to be running it and those even dumber idiots that voted them in the first place. Makes me glad that I don;t live in that state, or even the country!
You could maybe talk to Austin Dacey about getting banned from Pakistan.
Do you by any chance have plans to visit the Vatican, PZ?
No worries, PZ! I'm sure you can get yourself banned on YouTube, which is a good start.
Hey! What's with all the wannabe tree killers. Or d'you just want PZ to not blog for a while?
Frame off, framers.
Are there any small nations that would like to outlaw me? I have to keep up.
How about the Republic of Djibouti, in the Horn of Africa? Then you could say that you were 'banned in Djibouti'. Beats being subject to a hanging in Chad, that's for sure.
eddie:
An e-book is still a book. I never said it had to be distributed old-style.
And where'd the framer thing come from? Did I miss something?
Those "politicians" are pandering to a large christofascist audience in the population in OK,that Dem girl legislator is trying to outcompete her Repub rival by trying to be more of a thought fascist and atheist hater than anyone else.
In a state with a large number of fundamentalist churches,esp.in her district(63 or so,I think),it makes sense from her perspective.
Always interesting to notice how christofascists equal evolution with atheism,no shades of grey for them.No realizing that plenty of christians believe in evolution,that nobody sane does actually dispute evolution.
Thanks dreikin. I wasn't aiming at you personally but I'd seen similar calls on a number of threads.
I been reading about the nisbeteers having books in the making, and also trying to silence legit crit of religion.
Sometimes I make speculative connections and throw them out to see how they fly.
Yes, PZ, but Dawkins was allowed in to see that movie, so maybe you're still the king.
You're much too mellow to even dream of rivaling Dawk, P.Z.
Wondering where Rookie the troll is. Not so easy to present a line of apologetics in favor of an enemy of free speech?
I suggest the University have Dr. Dawkins back to speak again, at twice what they paid before...
AnthonyK reamed him a new hole yesterday, and his attempts at posting this morning were met with derision. Also, it is late in England at the moment.
Are there any small nations that would like to outlaw me? I have to keep up.
Watch as PZ Myers works at being banned from entering nations in The Chlulu That Roared!
Nope, dead tie.
eddie:
Ah, ok. If PZ does write a book I hardly expect him to consider Nisbet's framing in any way other than derisory. I think the concept is sound, but Nisbet thus far has only achieved massive fail with it. Actually, it makes me think of counter-intelligence (in more ways than one).
Nerd of Redhead, OM:
Sounds fun. Got a link to the thread (or even the post subject)?
" uknesvuinng | March 30, 2009 4:00 PM
Don't feel too bad. After all, what's the last thing Phil got kicked out of?"
Getting the whole of JREF kicked off youtube?
In case any one didn't know: Dawkins waived his fee (originally $10,000).
@ # 38
Das ist: Lichtenstein, dummkopf!
@: #33
"FWIW, it is likely that Mullah Osama bin Thomsen and the Michelle Bachmann wannabe don't have any legal authority to do more than sable rattle, threaten and pray for an asteroid impact on Norman, OK or Cambridge, UK."
Why they'd want to hit cambridge given that he's at oxford is another matter entirely.
Anyway, please don't confuse the two, we're far superior to those dark blue scum. ;-)
Shake shake shake
Shake shake shake
Shake Djibouti
that is all
Oh! Oh! *jumps up and down in a Hermioneish way with her arm in the air* The Faroe Islands will ban you! I'm sure you can manage to piss of a nation of 50,000 people, right?
Just come and give a talk about how wonderful Danes are, how evil Christianity is and how bad fish tastes.
PZ,
Both you and Richard have a ways to go before you catch up to Salman Rushdee.
So far, there are no anti-evolution death squads, but keep you eyes on Turkey and Oklahoma and Texas and .... oh! The Saudis might get into this business too.
Dreikin, look here.
I love these ignorant twits!
Let's see, we'll ban a speaker in the name of freedom of speech or just try to intimidate the OU administration from allowing any speaker who does agree with every religulous student's family's world view.
What's the matter with you science-types? Don't you realize that in 21st century America that a university education is supposed to be only a review of Sunday school?
Shiek Yerbouti! (That famous arab chieftan)
Strike that! Reverse it!
"any speaker who does agree with every religulous student's family's world view."
Should be:
"any speaker who does not agree with every religulous student's family's world view."
Got ta feel for the creotards...
They are a hoppin' and a boppin'...and no one is even glancing in their direction...they are experiencing attention deficit from the media and 'normal' folks!!
So they get all miffed and petulant with jealousy and dismay...finally go blub blubbing to the legislature crying about their delusion not being respected...
Prob they have is not the cloned bunnies already in the tar pit of gobbly gook...but the bunnies hopping free over the horizon...they need new blood to congeal...the old blood is just to stale...
Head honcho atheists like Dawkins are showing the way over that horizon...creotards are sad!
Behaving like petulant imbeciles and spitting their dummies...just ain't cutting it like it used to...
Some folks are using rationalisation...and that obviously scares the bejabbers outta them!
On second thoughts...Nah ! sod it...don't feel for the dumb asses at all......let 'em dangle in the breeze of reality...might make them less smelly...or maybe not!
Did you see that Oklahoma has released their new state seal?
#82: That's really inaccurate and unfair.
They grow a lot more wheat than corn
> Don't forget the fact that Dawkin's Trophy Wife was on Doctor Who....
Dawkins had a cameo himself on the end of series "let's blow up reality" episode. PZ's got a way to go.
Dr Who and the Tentacles of Doom? Nope, that's the Ood.
Dr Who and the Alcoholic Zebra Fish?
#83: True, but "wheatpone dullards" doesn't have the same ring to it.
You have to remember we are talking about Oklahoma christofascist legislators. They'd be doing well if they didn't try to take out Cambridge, Massachusetts or Oxford, Mississippi. :>)
A friend of mine has long been King-in-exile of Rhode Island.
Ever read P.J. O'Rourke's hilarious short story, "The King of Sandusky, Ohio"? Those folks knew how to settle matters like this. Surreptitious poisonings of inconvenient pretenders at the backyard weenie roast, and sword fights to the death at Sunday dinner.