A judge in that hotbed of liberal godlessness, Arkansas, recently decided that atheists have just as much right to publicly discuss their ideas as theists. Isn't that nice? So of course the local newspapers have to put up a poll to find out how unhappy that makes their subscribers.
Yes 34.1%
No 66%
Maybe some more freethinkers ought to contribute, I'm sayin'.
- Log in to post comments
Voted. I await the rest of my tentacled brothers and sisters to join me. *smile*
Here's a solution:
No damn displays at all. This is the state's capitol. Do it on private grounds.
Why isn't there an option like that in this poll?
I was just thinking the other day that all seemed a little too quiet on the xmas front. I wonder what that solstice display looks like? Maybe an evergreen and some holly and mistletoe? And a rising sun?
Yes (475, 42.1%)
No (655, 58%)
Make mine a "YES!!!!!!!".
Yes (482, 42.4%)
No (655, 57.7%)
I am weary of the War on Christmas and have decided to take on a different holiday Cause.
Do you know what makes Christianity so great? It's the love and tolerance they show their fellow humans, even if they hold different beliefs.
I tend to agree with Michelle R: No displays of a religious nature (and winter solstice celebrations are ancient religious ceremonies still celebrated today).
Alternately, give each and every 'religious' group that wants one a space on the lawn. That could end with a very full lawn, though.
I'm presuming that there is a Christmas display and that's why the freethinkers society was allowed to argue to put one of their own up, so in that case, I'd say a strong yes, but without evidence of it, I have to say no currently, reserving judgment until I can get some idea of why one group gets to put up a display.
Good work, bitches. We're just about caught up.
What if they held a war and nobody came? Fuck! but this is a tiresome topic.
So... close...
Hey, I had an idea for a Cuttlefish song about skewing web polls - "Pharyngulation", sung to the tune of "Infatuation". Huh? Huh? :)
We broke through the 50% mark:
Yes (901, 57.5%)
No (668, 42.6%)
The War On Xmas and The War on the War on Xmas have been big disappointments this year.
Looks like most people have given up and are just going to enjoy the holidays.
The reality of course, is that neither ever existed. This was made up to give the fundie wingnuts something to babble about.
The xians stole Xmas from the pagans. The pagans stole it back.
Well sure, atheists have as much right as anyone to free speech, so long as they believe in god and are respectful to religion.
What about this is so hard for anyone to understand?
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p
Truthfully, I agree with Michelle in post #2. I don't think either display belongs... because religion and politics shouldn't mix. Separation of church and state is largely a joke. I have a bumper sticker on my car that says "The last time we mixed politics and religion people were burned at the stake" and yes I realize this is blatantly false. The Salem witch trials did not lead to burning, most likely hanging, pressing to death or just starving or dying of disease in a dark filthy prison. Sadly I also realize that religion influences politics all the time in this country. I voted yes because if they get a display, so should we... but damn it, I'd prefer a world where neither was an option.
I voted "no".
Yes, the reason the Freethinkers decided to put up this display was because of a Nativity Scene on the capitol grounds.
Photo:
http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/2007/dec/images/ARnativity1.jpg
Really. These people sound like an old man saying, "and another thing" fifteen minutes after he's lost the argument.
The War on Christmas is over, fundies. You lost. It's mine now.
No religious fucktardery on public property.
There's a link on the article on that site to the Freethinkers site showing the details of their display. Here's the link to the Freethinkers' site:
http://web.me.com/suzique99/WSD/Winter_Solstice.html
I think this must refer to something we've had a little discussion about at Secular Cafe recently.
http://secularcafe.org/showthread.php?t=4118
David B
The neat thing about sun worship is...the sun really does exist. It really is the sine qua non of life as we know it. You really do suffer deleterious effects from gazing upon its radiant magnificance. And it really will someday destroy the earth in a burst of apocalyptic fury.
Granted, praying to the sun doesn't work any better than praying to Yahweh, but at least the sun doesn't have a written record of questionable moral imprecations.
Thanks for the chuckle Newfie. Good one.
Joel@22
Sorry, Joel. I must worship Tom Cruise for all eternity, so I don't want to hear about your religion.
Crewvy - It's more fuckwittery than fucktardery.
Fuck, I'm glad that worked @24. I meant to hit preview. And also to thank Russ@20 for the link.
Yes (2346, 77%)
No (701, 23%)
Damned atheists, ruining Christmas by putting up decorations that have nothing to do with the birth of Jesus!
Now, please excuse me while I go water my indoor pine tree and decorate my house with light bulbs and plastic reindeer.
This is the problem with how people see things these days. Obviously, there are only two sides to any given issue.
Or not. Even though I voted "yes," I actually disagree with this decision. The Christmas display should have been removed, rather than adding another display to the mix.
Latest results!
Winter Solstice Display at the State Capitol
A judge ruled in favor of the Arkansas Society of Freethinkers, allowing them to erect a Winter Solstice display at the state captiol. Do you agree with the judge's decision?
Yes (2423, 77.6%)
No (702, 22.5%)
Taking down the Jeebus crib and farm animal spectacle would have energized the believers.
This way they keep get a chance to compare 'reason' alongside of their obsessive fantasy.
But the whole point of separating church and state means ALL religions (or lack thereof) should have NO influence on politics. Reality= this just isn't possible... but I am with some of the others.... neither display belongs.
Wars on Christmas are not only fun, but necessary. Christmas has already invaded and taken over St Nicholas day. And it's posed to take over Thanksgiving day. It's like Nazi Germany at the beginning of WII. It must be stopped. (That's right, I called Christmas a Nazi. I win.)
If there's any US retail store managers reading this, can you tell us if there's some sort of prohibition against employees responding in kind to holiday wishes from customers? For two weeks I've been cheerfully extending a heartfelt "happy holidays" to every clerk and cashier I've encountered, and very few respond at all. It's almost as if the phony war on xmas has actually reduced comity and the friendly exchange of greetings. I swear it seems people are afraid to wish anyone a happy anything at all. I'm tempted to resort to "happy monkey", since the greeting likely won't be reciprocated anyway.
Mike @34:
It could just be that very few people are feeling happy or jolly this year, especially low-income types who managed to swing a seasonal position at a retail counter but know full well that their job will disappear as soon as the January "I would rather have the cash than this crap sweater" season is over.
celebration ≠ worship
I disagree that a Winter Solstice display is religious. Notwithstanding naturalistic religions of the past, there's nothing inherently metaphysical about celebrating a calendar milestone that's defined by a purely physical phenomenon (i.e., the shortest day of the year).
A modern Solstice display, erected by a society of secular humanists, is no more "just another religious display" than atheism itself is "just another religion."
If by "Winter Solstice" they mean "Saturnalia", I'm all for it.
Oh, and if by "Saturnalia" they mean "baby-eating". That, too. Anyone got some barbecue sauce?
Indeed, the link Russ #20 gave has the Arkansas Society of Freethinkers saying right out that it is not a religious display but an educational display:
Would the judge even be able to do that? I mean, if one organization sues another, can a judge really say, "Screw it. You're both wrong. I'm taking your ball away."
I'm asking in all seriousness.
Bill Dauphin @ 36 beat me to it. "Religion" my fine fat ass. Solstices and equinoxes* are demonstrable physical phenomena and celebration, learning, and generally jolly carryings-on are always timely.
For those with more holidaziness to burn: It's also Makihiki, a long Hawai'ian holiday involving feasting, dancing, athletics, lavaboarding, and the collection of taxes. Aloha! Olie!
*Might we now have a nice pitched battle over the plural of "equinox"? It would make my day.
Ron Sullivan
http://toad.faultline.org
There's a better view of the side of the Solstice booth here:
http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/library/20091215freethinkers.pdf
Ron "snappy handle" Sullivan@40-
Wouldn't it be solsti?
(ducks...)
--UXO@#11--
Happy Cephalopodmas (with a jewel squid set up at the town hall)
We can never know about majority view
But we can ask about it anyway, yay
And I wonder if these are your real beliefs
Or what PZ wanted people to say
Pharyngulation, Pharyngulation
Is throwing some weight
Is beating the hatin’
And I tell you how easy it seems to tip the scales
And how right to see the numbers change
But hey! They put that poll up just last night—
And they forgot about what PZ might arrange
Pharyngulation, Pharyngulation
Is throwing some weight
Is beating the hatin’
And tomorrow the poll might be discarded
There’s no profit in fighting PZ’s way
But they’ll try and sneak a bad poll by right now
So stay right here—the minions will make them pay
(These are the good old ways)
And stay right here—the minions will make them pay
(These are the good old ways)
(These are the good old ways)
(These are the good old ways)
(These are…… the good old ways)
The poll seems to be closed. Now they're asking about using weed as medicine. I guess they didn't like it when the results turned against them.
re more than one equinox...
Equinoces? equinoches? equinachoes?
equinox + equinox = edecox?
equinox.... hmm, isn't that horse-cow? so clearly the plural would be horse-cattle...
From the old school of "A little knowledge goes a long way".
I got a poll that asked about legalizing medical marijuana, so while I didn't get to vote on the Winter Solstice Display poll, I voted for the legalization.
The only thing more annoying than the non-existent "war on Christmas" is seeing "the reason for the season" billboards.
The Equinoxes and Solstices have always been celebrated in my house and I can tell you that they hold no religious connotation whatsoever. In my opinion, they were the beginnings of "science" in the human mind, because they were festivals based on the physical movements of the earth, not some supernatural sky fairy. I do get much amusement however, when people talk about Winter Solstice not having a place at "traditional" Christmas events, yet "Christmas" trees, mistletoe and yule logs somehow do. The irony is just great, all the better because the I.Q.=Rutabaga Christian crowd don't see it, thinking that it was Jesus (pronounced with the 'J' sound that didn't exist in their language at the time) who decorated the first Christmas tree while Joseph kissed Mary under the Mistletoe. YAY FOR HISTORICAL REVISIONISM!!!
No Gods, No Masters
Cameron
"Equinoxen" and I'll fight whoever says otherwise.
I like "equinoxen."
tsg @ 49:
Fight. Is. ON!
Equinoctes
There is a stem change in the root word nox, noctes. It's easy to remember if you keep in mind the adjectival form in English, nocturnal.
I voted "no" on the medical marijuana poll because I think marijuana should be legalized for non-medical purposes as well!
Update on solstice poll:
Yes (85%)
No (15.1%)
Nice!
I voted yes on their poll.
The Arkansas Society of Freethinkers should erect a medical marijuana display at the state capitol for the Winter Solstice.
Then, on the day of the solstice, I will travel to Little Rock and smoke it.
@Mr T: You're my new hero.
Correction:
According to wikipedia, Saturnalia starts today and ends on the 23rd. I expect my marijuana display to be ready for smoking before sundown. Then, I will gamble a bit, sacrifice some GOATS ON FIRE, and drink some bourbon.
Holst - The Planets: Saturn, The Bringer of Old Age
Io, Saturnalia!
@Naked Bunny with a Whip: That's nice. You've been my hero for a while. It must be something about the whip and your naked bunniness.
War on Christmas! War, I say! War!
Mr T-
Having listened to the Chess Blues box set repeatedly & continuously for the past 2 weeks, it is time for a commuting music change. Tomorrow: Holst.
War it is!
I voted for marijuana. I think if more people in Arkansas smoked it, Arkansas would be a much better place.
And Joel has convinced me to be a sun worshipper... but only when wearing SPF 40.
daveau:
The blues is good, but so is change. :)
B.B. King & Eric Clapton - The Thrill is Gone (with very heavy drums by Phil Collins)
Muddy Waters - Champagne & Reefer
WAR!
Michelle R, #2,
Amen to that.
tsg #18,
You're welcome to it.
I too celebrate the Winter Solstice. It happens to be my wedding anniversary. Which I always remind my wife by pointing out: "It was the longest night of my life."
------
Yo Sven: I'm not a happy camper these days. (Or, what have you done for me lately, Big Ben?)
ugh, that Thursday night pounding from freakin Cleveland has given me acute SAD.
Happy tending toward anniversary, Heddle.
It's either equinostes or equinoxema, I forget.
Mr.T, if you're going to smoke that Solstice display, you're going to want this version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ym6KHc6670&feature=related
Domo Arigato, Mr. DiMilo.
Mr T-
Then there's this...
I don't know how to make it go to 2:21, but the beginning is so quiet.
Ha! Edwin Star.
You probably wouldn't be surprised at how much Chess stuff was appropriated by the British invasion. Willie Dixon was their in-house songwriter. Artists included Muddy Waters, Koko Taylor, John Lee Hooker, Howlin' Wolf... Can't get enough.
A lot of people are going to be talking about the church attendances on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day and use those numbers as pointers of how christian a nation we are. I call BS on that; even a lot of atheists go on Christmas because they're dragged there by the religious people in their family or whatnot. You want to find out how many christians there are, see how many people are there in the middle of August or the middle of February. Better yet, see how many people there are in church in the middle of February in Lake, Geauga and Ashtabula counties in Ohio where I'm from. The people who are in church in february in the snow belt are your real christians. Everyone else in those counties is an atheist, I don't care what they say or what they did on Christmas.
It's changed to a poll about the medical use of marijuana, I voted yes ...
lol marijuana poll also pharyngulated
They spelled "capitol" wrong. Don't they have spellcheckers or editors of some sort?
SnottyProfessor
Steve, #71
I agree and disagree. I agree that the nation's (the US's) populace is not nearly as Christian as is reported. But I disagree that attendance on Christmas or Easter is used by anyone serious to establish the number of Christians or to gauge the level of Christianity. From days of yore it has been acknowledged that there is a sizable group of people who go to church on Christmas, Easter, and for weddings.
Do you have a source that demonstrates the use of attendance at Christmas services as an indicator as to how Christian we are? (I'm assuming you are talking about the U.S.)
Well, whatever that means.
Personally, I think we should replace the term "online poll" with "not-a-scientific poll" since they all seem to be calling them that anyway.
Interesting to look at the other polls on that site. Apart from the vote on the Winter Solstice display which was probably influenced by god .-) people in Arkansas only bother to vote about issues related to sport or the right to visibly carry a weapon. How quaint! For example, compared to the 5020 that voted on 'Solstice', 46620 people appear to have voted on the vitally important question, "Razorback football coach Houston Nutt was the subject of Arkansas Democrat-Gazette sports editor Wally Hall's column Friday morning. If you've read this column, do you agree with it?"