As are we all, of course, but Ebert is setting an example for us all.
Ebert is dying in increments, and he is aware of it.
I know it is coming, and I do not fear it, because I believe there is nothing on the other side of death to fear, he writes in a journal entry titled "Go Gently into That Good Night." I hope to be spared as much pain as possible on the approach path. I was perfectly content before I was born, and I think of death as the same state. What I am grateful for is the gift of intelligence, and for life, love, wonder, and laughter. You can't say it wasn't interesting. My lifetime's memories are what I have brought home from the trip. I will require them for eternity no more than that little souvenir of the Eiffel Tower I brought home from Paris.
There has been no death-row conversion. He has not found God. He has been beaten in some ways. But his other senses have picked up since he lost his sense of taste. He has tuned better into life. Some things aren't as important as they once were; some things are more important than ever. He has built for himself a new kind of universe. Roger Ebert is no mystic, but he knows things we don't know.
I believe that if, at the end of it all, according to our abilities, we have done something to make others a little happier, and something to make ourselves a little happier, that is about the best we can do. To make others less happy is a crime. To make ourselves unhappy is where all crime starts. We must try to contribute joy to the world. That is true no matter what our problems, our health, our circumstances. We must try. I didn't always know this, and am happy I lived long enough to find it out.
Ebert takes joy from the world in nearly all the ways he once did. He has had to find a new way to laugh by closing his eyes and slapping both hands on his knees but he still laughs. He and Chaz continue to travel. (They spent Thanksgiving in Barbados.) And he still finds joy in books, and in art, and in movies a greater joy than he ever has. He gives more movies more stars.
There is no dignity in death, but we can achieve some grace in life…and clearly, Roger Ebert is doing it.
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Roger Ebert is the MAN
To face death with that much resolve and contentment seems more than anyone could ask for.
i have always admired Roger Ebert.
Magnificent. I really needed to read that today. Thanks.
Ebert responds to the article, noting that they got it mostly right. But he wants to note too that he doesn't feel that "dying in increments" means "deathbed frail".
http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2010/02/roger_eberts_last_words_cont.ht… - This is Ebert's take.
PZed's point still stands. Ebert is still a lot closer to dying than most of us, but in the words of Terry Pratchett, another atheist facing infirmity and old age, I ain't dead yet.
(Oh, and if you haven't read Pratchett's screed on dying with dignity, it's here.)
But then he's never publically been a firm unbeliever:
Regardless of that, he at least isn't clinging desperately to some false hope. I'd say maybe that's admirable as he faces death, but in fact I don't think many do suddenly claim that the equivalent of a fairy tale is true, precisely because it's a false hope.
Antony Flew may be the exception, or perhaps he's simply suffered from age-related cognitive decline, and lost the sense of what's actually meaningful. Ebert could go gaga before the end, but it won't mean anything if he does.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p
Of all that he says I think the following statement is the most profound and most important: "To make ourselves unhappy is where all crime starts."
The closeted homosexual who denies his or her nature and enters into a sham marriage.
The unbeliever who dutifully attends a hated church and twists his outrage at the lies and hypocrisy into abuse of his own family.
Other examples, anyone?
You have to respect the man. Dying with dignity is a hard thing to do.
Besides that, these kind of stories are important. We non-believers have a tendency to shun away from death because we have to deal with it without the benefit of fairytales. Yet dying is an integral part of life - after all, mortality rates for humans remain a stable 100 %.
Hearing about other people coping with death in the absence of faith is important as it shows the rest of us that the fear of dying can be overcome. It is, in a way, actually rather life-assuring.
As non-believers we often pride ourselves for our ability to celebrate life. But we must also make peace with death, lest we restrict ourselves through fear.
I used to not like this guy. It's a shame I haven't really gotten to know his writing until now, the guy is a literary marvel. I'm gonna go home, find that article he talked about, and have my MacBook read it to me in Alex's voice.
But Stroh - the scientific evidence is against you, close to 50% of humans who have ever lived still haven't died (and the number keeps getting bigger, not smaller!)
(completely serious, oh yes)
Another current narrative of a nonreligious person dying (in a particularly unpleasant way) with great dignity is that of the distinguished historian Tony Judt: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/23531
Gotta love this disgusting comment someone left below the article:
By DaniEl Ben Freeman on February 18, 2010 10:28 AM
In Aug of 2005 God had mercy on me and delivered me from my sins thru His Son, Jesus.
Months later, I saw you giving a favorable review of the Da Vinci Code, and I remember thinking, "that old fool better shut his mouth and soon before God shuts it for him".
Then I noticed you missing from your show for some time and the next time I saw you I saw that His patience had indeed run out.
You still have time Roger. Don't be a fool and beg for mercy. You've been pimping Satan's filth for years and you have a lot to answer for.
Do it, NOW!!
Ebert: Did you intend to place a comma after "fool?"
The "Esquire" article is excellent. I found it uplifting and a testament to the human spirit. The author, Chris Jones, pointed out that Ebert reclaimed his voice through his prolific writing after spending years using a microphone.
Pixelfish, I hope the Pratchett article is as enlightening.
I admire Mr. Ebert for being who he is.
I don't think there really is any "dying with dignity" there's just dying. It's not something to be admired. I hate death. I hate the idea of it.
Yes, I know it comes to us all in time and there's ultimately no stopping it. I also hope I face it with the same evident courage Mr. Ebert is facing it with. Although I'll likely spend some time crying and wailing and "woe is me"-ing. I hate death precisely because there is nothing "up there" to go to. When it's over, it's over and you get no second go at it. So, I try as much as possible to ignore death, and live life as best I can.
Best wishes to Mr Ebert and his family.
DLC: Sorry, to be more specific and less euphemistic, Pratchett is talking about having control over when you die so you don't have to deal with horrible pain, lingering infirmity, or fading mental acuity. He's got the early-to-mid stages of an early onset Alzheimer's variant. He hasn't cocked up his toes yet, and is continuing to write as it helps deal with his particular issue, but he also reserves the control over his life so he can decide, "This is enough."
Regards the moronic msg tagged in #12: such ignorance! Why am I always amazed?? And such a soft rebuke by Roger. How Roger -and PZ for that matter- show such grace in the face of these *people* is a wonder.
Roger, you've won.
In my early teenage years, I once saw Ebert cross a city street while I was vacationing in Chicago. And his taste of films have always mirrored mine. It saddens me to see him approach his time but it's most welcoming to see how he's most admirably handling it.
I can only hope I'm capable of that kind of courage and dignity when my time comes.
It's a shame I wasn't more aware of Mr. Ebert's writing until recently. I never was a big fan of him as a movie critic, I'm afraid my tastes are far to pedestrian for that. But reading his articles and blog have given me a new found respect.
Keep up the good fight, Roger.
But he's NOT dying! Not any more than the rest of us!
"Well, we're all dying in increments. I don't mind people knowing what I look like, but I don't want them thinking I'm dying. To be fair, Chris Jones never said I was."
http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2010/02/roger_eberts_last_words_cont.ht…
I really enjoyed the Esquire article on Roger, even though it made me sad. But Ebert is such a great man, such a great writer, and social commentator, I'm uplifted by his life. I'm not sure I agree with the headline that he is "Dying". I think we are all dying, just at different rates. What we do with our time left, that's what's important. He is alive!
I work as an EMT, and I have seen people in various stages before and after death. I can say with fair certainty that there is no dignity in death. And since most people I watch die do so screaming and kicking and calling to their deities, I can also say with fair certainty that being religious doesn't necessarily make it any easier.
But there were always those few people who, while they didn't quite seem happy about it, accepted death with grace. I can only hope that one day I will learn their secrets before I have to face the spectre of death, so I can live my life without fear of it. Thank you, Mr. Ebert, for attempting to educate us.
I very literally cried while I read that article. I also read his blog regularly. When it's my time I hope I have the same attitude and dignity.
The heart of Pratchett's comment (there is an introduction written by someone else, but that isn't made clear on the page):
Emphasis added.
Pixelfish : I was aware of his condition, and wish Mr. Pratchett wasn't ill either. Especially not with Alzheimer's. of all the ways to go that one bothers me more than the others. The only thing worse might be being "locked in" where you're seemingly in a coma but aware and awake the whole time. I also wish Mr. Pratchett well, and hope that medical science develops a better treatment for him, and soon.
I read this article a couple of days ago and was moved to tears by it. I have lately come to admire Ebert for his wit and honesty; he's a great writer. I was actually unaware of his medical crises until reading this piece, and I found his candor and stoicism in the face of this to be all the more admirable.
He must be awfully bemused by how we are all eulogizing him already. But then again, for someone with no faith in an afterlife, how gratifying it must be to get the accolades you deserve before you are in your grave.
, how gratifying it must be to get the accolades you deserve before you are in your grave.
quoted for truth
I first heard Ebert about five or six shows before he left Ebert and Roeper. I enjoyed the insight he gave, but didn't think much of him until I read one of his articles online. I almost feel guilty that I missed such an interesting man, and since then I have been lowly but surely watching everything in the archives of the show. But despite all of that...
That brought on the tears more than anything else.
Damn, I'm crying now. I've followed Roger Ebert's reviews and writings for a long time now. He's a wonderful presence in the world and has my respect.
instead of "death-row conversion" shouldn't it be death-bed conversion? Unless Ebert is on the Green Mile right now...
Very nice. I look to the day when such sentiments become the norm. I can’t tell you how relaxing it is to hear someone talk about death without gibbering about souls and afterlives and choices. When we let the truth exist without trying to club reality into submission to our fears and desires then we learn—and impart wisdom—right up until the end.
This, I think, is the central problem with theistic religion in society. When it's more important to have a "relationship with God" than to enjoy your life and make life enjoyable for others, then life will inevitably be needlessly miserable for most. This life here on Earth is all we have. There's no invisible power to forgive our transgressions against our fellow humans. Only we can make amends when we do something wrong, and only we can forgive each other.
Is that Freeman quoted in #12 for real? So judgmental! So hateful! It would seem his avowed delivery from his sins was far from complete.
Peter H
Is that Freeman quoted in #12 for real?
Oh yes, I’d be surprised if it wasn’t. I know people like that, people who, if they don’t actually say it out loud, they’re thinking it. There is a solid contingent of Christians exactly like that, and it is disgusting.
It didn't sound to me like his death is imminent, just that he's a little closer to it than, say, a young vibrant 20 year old. And only because part of his human abilities have been curtailed. Not because his prognosis is bad.
But he's compensated in a wonderful way.
I don't think his TV reviews really show his ability to communicate as well as his written word, and Chris Jones from Esquire seems to agree. He's actually living, really living, now in ways he never was.
So why was this piece, and our reaction to it so morbid?
Both inspirational and heartbreaking.
There is no dignity in death
Well, you make room for others, you will feed some and end back as stardust whatever form it takes, that should count for something.
"...no death-row conversion."
Perhaps you meant death-BED conversion? Death row is for murderers.
I hope Mr. Ebert knows that he is an inspiration to young atheists like myself. In the grand scheme of things, we are all just a blip on the radar screen. That we can recognize that, be awed by it, and be thankful for what we get to see while we're here, is such a blessing.
I think we tend to forget that for most people, the time we spend here is comparable. It's the fact that we happen to lie at different places on the timeline that distracts us, but at the end of the day, most of us experience life in a similar way. We should be so lucky as to value it the way he does.
It does, but it's still applying human values to an uncaring universe. What's meant is that there is nothing inherently dignified about death. We can add to it what we wish, though.
I've never been a big fan of his reviews but one must admire his approach to his inevitable demise, I only hope I would do as well in his shoes.
Thanks for the example of human dignity.
The Esquire article misrepresents the situation. If you read Ebert's reply to it, he makes it quite clear that he's dying no more rapidly nor slowly than anyone else.
http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2010/02/roger_eberts_last_words_cont.ht…
An inspiring and uplifting article, far beyond anything religion has ever come up with.
Adios, Roger, it's too bad we won't see you again but you did make a difference and will be remembered for it.
Make that fondly remembered.
That's a rather empty statement. There's nothing inherently anything about anything (outside of definitions and meanings we provide ourselves). Talking about dying with dignity implicitly refers to what a person "adds" to their situation.
I love Roger Ebert's film reviews. I've watched him for years. Thus, I was shocked to see, online, the picture of him that was on the Esquire cover. I had no idea how hard the cancer had hit him.
As I read the article, I was humbled and moved by the grace and dignity that he shows in the face (no pun intended) of possible doom. I have become much more of a fan of Ebert than I ever was because, in his life, he shows the kind of "grok" for life that we all strive for (Sorry for the geeky Heinlein reference).
I miss Roger Ebert's voice. But as long as he is with us, his heart will speak volumes for him and for all humanity.
"I was perfectly content before I was born, and I think of death as the same state."
Me thinks this is my new favorite quote.
Yassensei: You may not have to miss Ebert's voice forever. According to the Esquire article, he's having a company use archives of his footage to create a synthesised voice for him.
Captain Kendrick: I love that quote, too. I also like the other quote:
"We must try to contribute joy to the world. That is true no matter what our problems, our health, our circumstances. We must try. I didn't always know this, and am happy I lived long enough to find it out."
Paul #45:
I was speaking specifically to the comment I replied to. You're not actually disagreeing with me; I have no illusions about any motives or values the universe may possess. I think that people who do are still trying to blame a god for hangnails.
@50
Understood, and I thought that that was what you were getting at. But reading your 21, I had similar misgivings. I mean, I get that you're pointing out people applying human values to a natural process, but your second paragraph was basically describing what people refer to when they talk about dignity in death. This seems rather contradictory, you saying "there is no dignity in death" followed by hoping to find what most people would refer to as "dignity in death".
DLC writes: "Although I'll likely spend some time crying and wailing and "woe is me"-ing."
Since I don't know your age, I have to assume that you are relatively young. I think you will find that as you age you will be less likely to feel this way. I'm relatively sure that Mr. Ebert felt this way at some time in the past, but has come to understand and embrace his life and not fear it's end. His story is poignant but by no means morbid. May it help us all find our way.
I've always liked Ebert, especially since his taste in movies parallels mine, but his essays since losing his voice have radiated with wisdom and yes, the joy of a life well lived. My dear husbeast is also declining in increments, but with the help of technology is still enjoying, yes, enjoying, a reasonably high quality of life, as is Ebert. However, having ALS, he runs the possibility of eventually becoming "locked in," while being totally aware of everything going on around him with no ability to respond. That is a thought that terrifies me. Fortunately, for the both of us, the chances of his having another heart attack are quite high, and since he has been twice in cardiac arrest, reports that it is a pretty acceptable way to go. Now I just want him to be able to enjoy the combined birthday party/celebtation of life/wake I am throwing for him this coming October. He is looking forward to people celebrating with him instead of issuing sentiments to him when he can't be around to appreciate them. Mr. Ebert, if you read this, I highly recommend throwing your own wake before you go. It should be a blast!
So live, that when thy summons comes to join
The innumerable caravan which moves
To that mysterious realm where each shall take
His chamber in the silent halls of death,
Thou go not, like the quarry-slave at night,
Scourged by his dungeon; but, sustain'd and soothed
By an unfaltering trust, approach thy grave,
Like one who wraps the drapery of his couch
About him, and lies down to pleasant dreams. - William Cullen Bryant from THANATOPSIS
That's how I'm going to go as well. No deathbed conversions for me.
I can't read this now, but will when I'm up to it.
I think he commented here once when PZ had posted something about him. As I recall, it was later in the thread and some of us were in the heat of arguing with heddle about some nonsense, so it went mostly unnoticed. I do think I remember it, but I could be wrong....
SC, I seem to recall Roger Ebert posting here too, but I was unable to dig it out.
@#51:
In #21, I was talking about being dignified in how one approaches death as a matter of having peace in one's life. That isn't the same as death itself possessing dignity; it's still the same ugly, frightening process that will happen to everyone no matter their beliefs. I simply hope that one day I will make peace with that eventuality.
I didn't get all the way through all the comments over
at Ebert's journal (maybe later) but a couple of people
said things I wish I had said:
1) He may have lost his voice, but having listened to
'Siskel & Ebert' & then 'Ebert & others' for years, I still
hear his voice when I read what he writes;
2) The Esquire piece was great, but the Esquire piece
together with Mr. Ebert's comments on it make a truly remarkable
ensemble.
As someone said (on a comment thread in Slate following C. Hitchens'
article about the memorial service for Tim Russert, in which the
departed journalist's son remarked, after the sun came out from
behind the clouds, 'Is anyone still an atheist now?'...never mind)
"It is not religion which gives meaning to death,
it is death which gives gravity to religion."
Fortunately, Ebert has many more words to write.
I am reminded of this quote from Modern Warfare 2:
"The healthy human mind doesn't wake up in the morning thinking this is its last day on Earth. But I think that's a luxury. Not a curse. To know you're close to the end is a kind of freedom. Good time to take...inventory."
I feel somewhat ashamed that I've only recently begun appreciating Ebert's writing,
SC, I found two possibles:
One
Two
This is Daniel Freeman;
http://www.blogcatalog.com/blogs/the-judgment-of-san-francisco-luke-17…
He predicted that LA and SF would be destroyed like Sodom and Gomorrah last September and that God would whisk him away to set up a new government in Israel.
We all die. That's a given. Dying gracefully? Well, that depends on what you mean by "grace". If I could publish my thoughts on the matter in some erudite manner, and etc., that would be nice, but as we all know, you don't know when it is going to happen. The universe is a random kind of place. Those who have the opportunity (like Ebert) to publish their thoughts as they fade have an opportunity to give us some insight, but in the end, we will lie on our deathbeads and be who we are in our time and place. No more, no less.
Predictions about future events are complete shite, end of story.
Ebert continues with comments on the article here:
http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2010/02/roger_eberts_last_words_cont.ht…
@ leepicton #53,
"...the possibility of eventually becoming "locked in," while being totally aware of everything going on around him with no ability to respond." A terrible affliction for anyone. It is rewarding that you and your "husbeast" have such pragmatic & wholesome attitudes regarding the inevitable. May his seemingly ordained passing be gentle. May everyone's passing be gentle. Thank you for demonstrating with eloquence the inherent dignity of the human condition.
@#61
This indeed seems to be the Freeman of loathsome and hateful slimehood as caused me nearly to vomit upon reading #12. Investigating the link in your post, his doom & damnation blog is littered with dead links. I would hazard the guess that the excrement inside his skull is likewise loaded with dead links.
@#61
Upon checking Freeman's blog bit further, it is nothing but dead links. Quite fitting.
#12 is why I see those god-awful Dan Brown movies. I will see anything that catholics try to censor no matter how bad it is. I will Streisand-effect pretty much anything (except another James Cameron movie).
Perhaps Ebert read Leo Buscaglia's sentiment - or knew the story already:
"Ancient Egyptians believed that upon death they would be asked two questions and their answers would determine whether they could continue their journey in the afterlife. The first question was, 'Did you bring joy?' The second was, 'Did you find joy?'" This is such a great antidote to so much of traditional Calvinist/Augustinian self-denying religious dogma. It makes a personal enjoyment of this life a responsibility and a requirement.
Guy's stronger than me. Honestly, I don't think I'll ever stop being afraid of death. Completely ceasing to exist at all? That's terrifying.
I'm not terrified of not existing. How could nothing be terrified? Makes no sense. Dying a painful death is terrifying. But not existing seems like freedom. No more death, taxes, duty, liars, etc. But that is just a nonsense too. How can any intention apply to nothing?
By the way, I was reminded of another great who died with dignity:
http://www.ourcivilisation.com/smartboard/shop/smitha/humedead.htm
So you are nothing ? Logic fail.
I'm happily rationalising my existential fears away I guess, like anyone else. And while I am not likely to fall prey to a predator that will eat me, there are still very many unpleasant ways to die out there for humans.
When the day comes, or the situation gets hopeless and pain/suffering/disability does not make up for my natural curiosity about the world anymore, I hope there will be a friend who can hook me up to a Propofol drip.
No, the greatest infidels never die.
Just look : Voltaire is alive.
Roger Ebert paraphrasing Mark Twain: "I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."
His viewpoint is one I share completely. There is no need to fear or anticipate what may or may not be. Since it is impossible, as well we know, to know more than what is actually happening in the present moment, our preoccupation with a past that only exists in the form of a present memory and a future that does not exist at all for us yet, does seem counter-intuitive. Mr Ebert's matter of fact acceptance of death is done with a grace and even good humor that I hope I can carry to my own death. My greatest moment of freedom so far was realizing living is the meaning of life, just a more active form of the word.
I've been a firm fan of Ebert's ever since his glorious takedown of the film I despise and loathe more than any other (Armageddon). He is a good man.
It's a fine thing to see he has such an admirable grasp on things but I couldn't help wondering what difference his access to the best medical and surgical care, and living in extremely comfortable surroundings, makes to achieving and maintaining such equilibrium.
There is no dignity in poverty. The resilient individual spirit may attain it but is still humiliated by the society that lets it happen.
(Not very eloquent but I'm not long back from an early shift full of patients frantic about affording their uncoming quarterly fuel bills after the UK's coldest winter in 30 years. Thank Socialism for the NHS).
Rorscach:
So you are nothing ? Logic fail.
Hardly. I did not say I don't exist now. Perhaps you could ask a question if you don't understand something?
I think Roger Ebert is a really cool person and as a movie reviewer, he's second to none. I wish him all the best.
You really are a dense, aren't you? You wrote "I'm not terrified of not existing. How could nothing be terrified?" -- equating yourself, here and now -- the person not terrified -- with "nothing". That your nonexistence cannot be terrified has nothing to do with whether you can.
Perhaps you could ask a question if you don't understand something?
And a hypocrite too. If you didn't understand Rorschach's (obvious to anyone who isn't a dolt) point, you could have asked.
There is no dignity in poverty. The resilient individual spirit may attain it but is still humiliated by the society that lets it happen.
You might want to read http://www.ebertfest.com/three/3suchalong_rev.htm
Thunderbird 5:
It's a fine thing to see he has such an admirable grasp on things but I couldn't help wondering what difference his access to the best medical and surgical care, and living in extremely comfortable surroundings, makes to achieving and maintaining such equilibrium.
Roger is perfectly aware of his good fortune in having a well-paying job with a company providing excellent health benefits (quite apart from a loving wife and strong extended family). Even before he started blogging, and way before his cancer, he wrote opinion pieces for the Sun-Times urging the passage of single payer health care, which of course provoked the Mighty Tighty Righties to tell him to shut up, that he's just a movie reviewer and has no business acting like he's some kind of citizen or something.
BTW, the title of the Esquire article, Roger Ebert's Last Words, just refers to the fact that after his surgeries he can no longer speak. It doesn't mean he's at the One More White Shirt'll Do Ya stage.
@ 75,
Your statement did not make any sense. But yeah, sorry, I was a bit nitpicky and grumpy that night !