Dismal Physics

Sean Carroll takes a look at economics from the point of view of a physicist:

Economists have a certain way of looking at the world, in which (to simplify quite a bit) people act rationally to maximize their utility. That sort of talk pushes physicists' buttons, because maximizing functions is something we do all the time. I'm not deeply familiar with economics in any sense; everything I know about the subject comes from reading blogs. Any social science is much harder than physics, in the sense that constructing quantitative models that usefully describe the behavior of realistic systems is made enormously difficult by the inherent nonlinearities of human interactions. ("Ignoring friction" is the basis of 98% of physics, but nearly impossible in social sciences.) But I can't help speculating, in a completely uninformed way, how economists could improve their modeling of human behavior.

Elsewhere, in a totally unrelated development, Cosma Shalizi unleashes a rant about "econophysics," and wishes that physicists who must meddle in economics would do a better job of it:

From here on, the "Worrying Trends" authors imply, it's all down hill, and I
have to agree. When you are dealing with a very, very large amount of very
high quality data, you can get away with using sloppy, not-too-reliably means
of analysis, because your data will save you unless your analytical procedures
are actively malicious. (That goes double if the data are generated by active
processes over which you have considerable control, as in real physics
experiments.) It also helps if you are merely trying to describe patterns in
the data, without framing serious hypotheses about the mechanisms which produce
them. Note, also, that none of the genuine accomplishments really draw on any
of the distinctive concepts or mathematical structures of theoretical physics,
as opposed to the more elementary reaches of probability and stochastic
processes. In other words, these are things economists could have done
themselves, if they'd read better books on random processes
( href="http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/partner?partner_id=27627&cgi=product&isbn=0198572220">e.g.)
early in their training.

If econophysicists were content to stick to this sort of thing, to the
phenomenology of financial time series (etc.), the situation would
be almost OK. Almost, because even there it is far too common to see
(for example) claims that such-and-such a distribution is a power law, because
there's a straightish bit on a log-log plot. I have discussed that particular
fallacy href="http://bactra.org/notebooks/power-laws.html">ad href="http://bactra.org/weblog/cat_power_laws.html">nauseam elsewhere,
and will just note in passing that even here, the refusal to do statistics
dooms people to talk nonsense. The real point is that econophysicists
are not content with phenomenology based on overwhelmingly large data
sets, but want to get at mechanisms, in all kinds of social and economic
systems, and there things get really ugly. There is a large literature in
econophysics, for instance,
on agent-based
models
of financial markets and (supposedly) other forms of collective
behavior, including the formation of public opinion, but not even the authors
of "Worrying Trends", who are about maximally sympathetic to the movement, list
it as a success. (I will return to the minority game and why I'm so
down on it below.) This is a shame, because it's actually in the area of
mechanistic models that one might imagine (as I have) that
physicists could make a distinctive contribution.

That's not a sarcastic comment, by the way. As far as I can tell, they really are totally unrelated. But it's interesting to see them appear at around the same time.

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Maybe it's just the usual theoretical physicist arrogance coming through, but every time I read these rants by Shalizi about physicists doing a bad job meddling in other fields, I end up thinking that the problem isn't the meddling; it's that the meddling is done by bad physicsts.

After all, plotting data on a log-log plot isn't physics; it's curve fitting. A trained monkey could do it. If that's all the physicist is capable of doing, then no wonder they're trying to publish in other fields.

My insight from that comes by way of computer science-- my advisor was a physicist turned computer scientist turned (or at least turning) quant. I have a deep skepticism for econophysics, too, at least the cheap and sleazy kind of econophysics where the thermodynamic and related statistical techniques are presented and used... pretty much exactly as they are in physics, as far as I can tell.

My mind really rebels at that, because dammit, there's a fundamental difference between a hydrogen molecule and a human being in terms of memory and decision making. At least the agent-based models recognize this and try to use it even though there's a lot more things that are totally unknown about how to deal with ABMs than things that are known.

(Luckily, my work was not econ-based, although it had applications, and luckily that's not really what my advisor was in to, but I got exposed to it nevertheless.)

By John Novak (not verified) on 17 Sep 2007 #permalink

Thanks for this post Chad. I'm at a vulnerable place with my dissertation (economics) and it seems recently I've encountered a number of physicists who seem to have a thing for kicking economics in the ankles. Yeah, we agree, there's lots of interesting questions economics can't answer. It's just I do not want to hear it right now. ABD was looking better, and better. Blessings on the folks who grasp that an individual is made up of many more than one atom. And, I've been told that even the behavior of electrons isn't 100% relaible. *Sigh* Back to writing up these dismal results.