Gaddafi must go

An unusually forthright statement by our Glorious Leaders:

it is impossible to imagine a future for Libya with Gaddafi in power. The International Criminal Court is rightly investigating the crimes committed against civilians and the grievous violations of international law. It is unthinkable that someone who has tried to massacre his own people can play a part in their future government. The brave citizens of those towns that have held out against forces that have been mercilessly targeting them would face a fearful vengeance if the world accepted such an arrangement. It would be an unconscionable betrayal. Furthermore, it would condemn Libya to being not only a pariah state, but a failed state too. Gaddafi has promised to carry out terrorist attacks against civilian ships and airliners. And because he has lost the consent of his people any deal that leaves him in power would lead to further chaos and lawlessness. We know from bitter experience what that would mean. Neither Europe, the region nor the world can afford a new safe haven for extremists. There is a pathway to peace that promises new hope for the people of Libya: a future without Gaddafi that preserves Libya's integrity and sovereignty and restores her economy and the prosperity and security of her people. This needs to begin with a genuine end to violence, marked by deeds, not words. The regime has to pull back from the cities it is besieging, including Ajdabiya, Misrata and Zintan, and its forces return to their barracks. However, so long as Gaddafi is in power, Nato and its coalition partners must maintain their operations so that civilians remain protected and the pressure on the regime builds. Then a genuine transition from dictatorship to an inclusive constitutional process can really begin, led by a new generation of leaders.

I still think that we fouled up rather badly by waiting so long to start, but we seem to be on about the right lines, though we could be more vigourous. It looks fairly stalemate-y on the ground at present, as far as can be judged from the sparse reports. And the rebels are pretty rubbish at actual organised fighting - they look more like Keystone cops, running forward until the first shot then running back just as fast. But that cannot last for too long, and we've now committed ourselves (or our leaders have, in our name, and I don't see any serious opposition) to Gadaffi going. So I expect he will, messily.

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will ye ever fuck off and leave me alone i will never give up libya..

I'm a little worried about mission creep, but as long as the only boots on the ground are Libyan or CIA, it's probably alright.

Tunisia and Egypt have much better prognosii than 2003 Iraq because they deposed the Looney Tune themselves, so hopefully the same will occur in Libya.

If it's indeed the case that Gadaffi is to a considerable extent dependent on mercenaries, the embargo may become decisive as the resources to pay them dry up. OTOH if things do drag on for an extended period I would not be surprised to see the Landlords employ the Egyptian Army for the actual eviction.

[That could be a bit fraught. Lets hope it isn't needed -W]

By Steve Bloom (not verified) on 15 Apr 2011 #permalink

Steve Bloom | April 15, 2011 5:51 PM --- Interesting conjecture.

By David B. Benson (not verified) on 15 Apr 2011 #permalink

Interestingly, one of the first things the rebels did (March 19) was to establish a central banking system for Libya - odd that, isnt it? Why? Gaddafi was trying to take Africa out of the western dominated financial system, and specifically stopping the use of the US$ for oil. Sounds familiar? Looks like Muamma "Adolf Hitler" Gadaffi was following in the footsteps of Saddam "Adolf Hilter" Hussein. All the stories of Hussein throwing babies out of incubators, putting his opponents through shredders, WMD, etc. All just fairy tales, presenting an acceptable story to the public. Works every time.

[Err, why would you create a banking system? For the obvious reason: everyone needs one -W]

In summary, whatever the Western reaction to Libya is all about, it certainly isn't about the welfare of the Libyan people. When Gadaffi is finally removed, what then? The country's assets will be privatised and sold off cheaply to western interests. The ordinary Libyans will be screwed big time as loan interest will be based on IMF rates rather than internal rates. And the US will finally get its 'enduring base' in Africa for Africom (currently based in Germany). Gadaffi himself? Tried in Libya, found guilty of murdering 'his own people' and hanged.

[I can't really bring myself to care if Gaddafi is hanged or not; plenty more people deserve sympathy first. He has killed enough people himself; he could save many more lives by getting out not. In financial or quality-of-life terms, ordinary Libyans will certainly be better off once he has gone -W]

Re comments about mercenaries and boots on the ground: There are British mercenaries (probably SAS who are allowed to resign, go and earn loads of money as mercs doing dodgy stuff the government wants done but can't do openly, then rejoin the British Army as though they had never left, pension intact) escorting 'diplomats' (probably MI6) in Libya. Funnily enough a group like that was caught before the UN resolution was passed, much to Cameron/Hague's embarrassment. Another interesting connection - one MI6 person took a posting at a site near the main oil centres in late December 2010 (iirc) - very convenient and prescient!

[No. The group caught were all bona-fide SAS-types, I think. Certainly if you have links saying otherwise, I'd be interested to see them -W]

It is a mistake to assume that the enemy (France/UK/US) of my (the Libyan people's) enemy (Gadaffi) is my (the Libyan people's) friend.

[I don't suppose we (as in, the UK govt) has suddenly come over all cuddly and seen the light of humanity. But that is no grounds for complaining when they do the right thing -W]

Gaddafi is a tosser?

By David B. Benson (not verified) on 16 Apr 2011 #permalink

Sounds like the "Good Ol' Boys Network" is up for some old fashioned nation building. I guess that's in style now. Go figure. And you support them! Interesting.

LOL, fix your preview and your HTML processor which is incorrectly gobbling properly formatted and escaped tags. Both of the above comments contained an indication that the original message was "snark".

bleeding-heart liberal views score hits on web-sites. have you ever thought of asking Mugabe his views on Arctic ice-formation?

By diogenes_1960@… (not verified) on 20 Apr 2011 #permalink