I've been writing about antivaccine loons for a long time, and during that time I've seen them propose some crazy ideas. The other day, I came across one proposing what might well be the craziest, most irresponsible idea I've ever seen from an antivaccine activist. It comes from our old friend Kent Heckenlively. Heckenlively, as you might recall, started out over at the antivaccine crank blog Age of Autism but, for whatever reason, left the blog to write somewhere else. Amazingly, that "somewhere else" turned out to be the website of one Patrick "Tim" Bolen, whom I just mentioned yesterday because of his hilariously conspiratorial take on Donald Trump's new CDC director. Basically, I can't figure out if Heckenlively left because Age of Autism decided he was becoming too far out there even for AoA or whether he left AoA because he felt it wasn't antivaccine enough. It's hard to tell. Either possibility isn't good. However, either possibility is not inconsistent with his fantasies of being Aragorn leading the armies of Gondor and Rohan in a last stand against Sauron's forces at the Black Gate of Mordor and his even darker fantasies of seeing "justice" done to all the scientists and doctors who support vaccines.
This time around, over on BolenReport, I learned of his latest proposal, that of a Five Year Moratorium on Childhood Vaccines. He's even started a WhiteHouse.gov petition, something I wasn't sure still existed since Donald Trump became President. And, yes, Heckenlively means moratorium. He introduces his petition on BolenReport with the sort of apocalyptic, histrionic language we've come to expect from him:
One in six US children has a learning or behavior problem. One in ten has asthma. One in ten has ADHD. One in thirteen has a food allergy. One in fifty has autism. Thirty five hundred children a year die from Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. Seven hundred and fifty thousand children suffer from seizures.
All of these problems can be traced to the toxic witches’ brew of vaccines, that recent evidence has shown to be contaminated with unsuspected chemical and biological agents. As our understanding of science gets better, we now understand that the vaccine program has been an unrestricted experiment in immuno-therapy on our children and they are suffering the consequences.
The authorities in charge of our government and science have done NOTHING to stop this crisis.
It is time to DEMAND action.
We must IMPOSE AN IMMEDIATE FIVE YEAR BAN ON ALL CHILDHOOD VACCINES AND FIX THE LEGAL AND SCIENTIFIC PROBLEMS WHICH HAVE LED TO THIS DISASTER FOR HUMANITY.
That's not all. In Heckenlively's world, not only are vaccines a "toxic witches' brew," but they're downright evil:
This is about the fate of the human race. Every single one of us. If you do not care about the future of humanity, you have lost your soul. Maybe permanently.
In another age we would freely speak the name of the force that would allow the destruction of humanity. That name would be evil. It would be Satan. It would be Lucifer.
I believe it is high time we abandon the namby-pamby humanism which allows people in positions of authority to avoid responsibility. To allow this harm to children to take place for a single day more is EVIL.
So let's see. I've seen Heckenlively compare vaccines and autism to Sauron, the near all-powerful dark lord in J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, fantasizing himself, Walter Mitty-like, to be Aragorn, the heir of Isildur and rightful king of Gondor, the only one who could unite the disparate nations of men to battle the threat of Mordor. We've seen him liken pediatricians, CDC scientists, and the public health establishment that promotes vaccination to Nazi war criminals, with him as the one dispensing "justice" to them for what he views as their "crimes." Now we've seen him characterize vaccines as Lucifer, Satan, evil seeking to destroy humanity. I'm not sure how much more ridiculous or disturbing Heckenlively's rhetoric can get, but I'll give him one thing. At least he's honest about being vaccine. No "I'm not antivaccine, I'm a vaccine safety activist" for our Kent! No, no, no.
So what's Kent's great idea? What, exactly does his WhiteHouse.gov petition demand? Behold! He's toned down the language, but only somewhat, which should go a long way to convincing whatever poor White House staffer has to deal with his petition that he isn't certifiable. Fortunately, he's only gotten less than 3,000 signatures, and he needs 100,000 to get a response from the White House. Still, let's see what he wants:
American children are in crisis with an explosion of once-rare neurological problems like autism and seizures.
Recent scientific evidence has shown massive contamination of vaccines with unsuspected chemical and biological agents. Other evidence shows dramatic differences in in health outcomes between vaccinated and un-vaccinated children. In order to remedy this we ask the White House to:
ONE: Impose a five year moratorium on all childhood vaccines from birth to age eighteen.
TWO: Repeal the 1986 National Childhood vaccine injury Act and return vaccines to the traditional civil justice system.
THREE: Perform large scale studies of vaccinated and un-vaccinated children.
FOUR: Ban direct pharmaceutical advertising to consumers and allow such advertising only to medical professionals
Proposals two through four are standard antivaccine "demands," particularly the demand for a "vaxed/unvaxed" study that is unnecessary and would require far more resources than cranks understand and, depending on how it's designed, potentially highly unethical. Proposal four isn't even that bad. (Leave it to someone like Heckenlively to insert one reasonable idea into a list of horrible irresponsible ideas.) However, proposal one is pure insanity. It's so bad that I doubt even most antivaxers would be down with it, because I doubt even they would want to leave every child in the US born during the next five years unvaccinated.
The results, of course, would be highly predictable: Outbreaks galore of vaccine-preventable infectious diseases. It would almost certainly start with the measles, one of the most contagious, easily transmissible infectious diseases in existence, and pertussis, also highly contagious. There would be more and bigger outbreaks until measles is once again endemic. Would we reach levels of measles that were routinely observed before the measles vaccine was first licensed in the 1960s? Probably not. After all, there would still be a lot of vaccinated people around from before the "moratorium." However, it would be bad. Real bad. Basically, it would be, for the children affected for five years, getting close to turning back the clock 60 years. Hell, it's possible that even polio would make a comeback if we stopped vaccinating against it for five years. Heckenlively's proposal is so utterly irresponsible and potentially disastrously harmful to children that it's hard to believe that anyone would seriously propose it.
But, hey, this is Kent Heckenlively we're talking about. Yesterday, eh even doubled down on his proposal, while at the same time trying to sell his books:
Let me be clear. I intend to hurt pharma because they have not acted like responsible human beings. I mean to turn BIG PHARMA into little pharma.
And I believe those in pharma are SO STUPID that they are going to help me in this mission.
ACTIVATE THE LIST-SERV OF PHARMA MOUTHPIECES! MULTIPLE EDITORIALS USING THE EXACT SAME WORDS MUST APPEAR IN DIFFERENT PUBLICATIONS AROUND THE GLOBE ON THE EXACT SAME DAY TO FIGHT THIS WHITE HOUSE PETITION!
Just so there’s no confusion, Kent Heckenlively, co-author of PLAGUE and author of INOCULATED is calling for a FIVE YEAR MORATORIUM ON CHILDHOOD VACCINES. As long as the mainstream media gets that point correct in every article they write about this effort, I promise to fight you with half my brain tied behind my back.
If you leave out the fact that I’ve written TWO FABULOUS BOOKS which extensively detail the scientific corruption around these issues, I’ll take you on with the full force of my intellect. And it won’t be pretty.
No, it won't be pretty, but not for the reason that Heckenlively appears to think. Seriously, if Heckenlively wants to engage in a battle of intellect, all I can do is respond: "Bring it!" On the other hand, I don't like battling unarmed opponents. Yes, I feel conflicted.
Heckenlively finishes by "calling out" various figures to respond to his appeal. The list is long and utterly risible. It includes figures as fringe as Mike Adams and a variety of antivaxers many of you have at least heard of before, if not become familiar with. It includes mainstream vaccine scientists. It even includes Paul Offit:
Head of infectious diseases at Children’s Hospital of Pittsburgh and chief public vaccine defender. Did I mention that I worked for Crystal Jiang’s team at Lawrence-Livermore Labs, the group who found your vaccine was contaminated with pig viruses? Yes see, I know science has the tools necessary to uncover the contamination in our vaccines. They just need to find the political will. (Included for the same reason as Lipkin.)
Of course, for supposedly having worked with her Heckenlively appears not to be able to spell Dr. Jaing's name correctly.
Spelling aside, I wonder if Mr. Heckenlively means this study? Basically, using next generation sequencing techniques doing what we like to call "deep reads" that detect a lot of minor variants, it purported to have detected in Rotarix porcine circovirus-1 (PCV1), a highly prevalent nonpathogenic pig virus that has has not been shown to be infectious in humans. Of course, what Mr. Heckenlively fails to mention is that after that study was published use of the vaccine was suspended by the FDA pending further investigation. After the investigation, the FDA found that the PCV posed no threat and that it was safe to use Rotarix. A subsequent study found no evidence that PCV was detectible in ileal tissue samples of vaccinated children. Ironically, Laura Hewitson, an investigator who briefly became a hero of the antivaccine movement after she published a risibly bad study purporting ot show that the thimerosal preservative in vaccines caused harm to baby macaque monkeys and then did a followup study that failed to find anything of the sort. Both studies were unconscionable, unethical wastes of precious primates.
The even more hilarious thing is that Rotarix isn't even Dr. Offit's rotavirus vaccine. Rotateq is. Truly the Dunning-Kruger is strong in this one. [Note added from comments: Also, Dr. Offit works at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, not Pittsburgh. Silly Mr. Heckenlively. Silly me. I should have spotted that flub myself.]
That little detour aside, Heckenlively even appeals to Donald Trump, Steve Bannon, and Rep. Jason Chaffetz. (Apparently he doesn't know that Rep. Chaffetz resigned as of June 30.) He even appeals to Milo Yiannopolous. I kid you not! His rationale? This:
Okay, the gay conservative author of DANGEROUS, one of the best selling books in the country and a GREAT READ, has absolutely NOTHING TO DO WITH VACCINES. But as possibly the only person in the country more viciously attacked than the parents of vaccine-injured children, I thought I’d take a chance and see if I could get a response!
Of course, there's a reason why Yiannopolous is "attacked." He seeks it out by intentionally saying outrageous things that could be considered hate speech. I don't think Yiannopolous would help Heckenlively's cause, but Heckenlively is deluded and starstruck enough to think that it will.
Lest you think that there aren't more out there like Heckenlively, just peruse some of the comments after his first and second posts. There's ranting against big pharma and its "eugenics" program that includes vaccines. (Vaccines: Worst. Eugenics. Program. Ever.) One commenter even says that vaccines kill more children than the diseases they prevent. (At least she admits that vaccines prevent disease.) One of them even posted a link to a federal class action lawsuit and criminal complaint against "mandatory vaccination". It's hilarious reading. Here's a little taste:
I, being a layman and non-expert in the fields of biology, immunology, immunization, inoculation, vaccination, corporate greed, corruption, abuse of governmental authority or violation of oath of office, cannot produce my own empirical evidence to prove why vaccines can be unsafe and why individuals and parents should have a right, defined in whichever manner, to decide when and if vaccination is a better choice for such individuals or their family members and whether to vaccinate or not. I can only come to my own conclusion using true mental openness to consider all the available and relevant information at my disposal using real, objective, unobstructed, unbiased and non-partisan critical thinking to come to a conclusion as to whether vaccines, in any form, degree or recurrence should be allowed to be injected into me and my family members. And I have concluded that vaccines have an actual risk of injury that is not worth taking, as they can be detrimental to our overall health as described herein.
Huh? If Ricardo Beas, who made this complaint, is a layman and non-expert, how is it that he has sufficient information to make such sweeping condemnations of vaccines? He trusts the "experts" who are "unbiased":
Therefore, I defer to the experts in the field of vaccination theory and reality, in particular those without financial or other interests in the promotion of vaccines and mandatory vaccination, to show proof of such dangers of vaccines by citing such sources in the text and footnotes of this complaint as my proof that (a) vaccines are not safe, (b) vaccination should not be mandatory and/or compulsory, and that (c) coordinated and speedy legal action should and must be taken against all involved Criminal Participants. I adopt herein all footnotes, exhibits, noted internet articles and videos by reference and incorporation.
Not surprisingly, these "unbiased" experts whom Beas cites include Andrew Wakefield, Toni Bark, Nancy Banks, Jay Gordon, Tetyana Obukhanych, Lawrence Palevsky, Russell Blaylock, Leonard Horowitz, Suzanne Humphries, Boyd Haley, Philip Weeks (a naturopath, of course!), Sherri Tenpenny, Theresa Deisher, Lucija Tomljenovic, and other well-known antivaccine crank "scientists" and physicians.
So, basically, we have an antivaccine activist demanding a moratorium on vaccines for five years until all his concerns that can never be answered are answered and another antivaccine activist who is making frivolous criminal complaints against Tom Frieden, Julie L. Gerberding, Paul A. Offit , William Thompson, "other CDC employees," Dorit Rubinstein, Merck, and...oh, forget it. What's even more amazing is that they both apparently believe not only that what they are doing is justified but that they will be met with anything other than richly deserved ridicule.
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RotaRix isn't Dr. Offit's vaccine, either. Rotateq is.
Mr. Heckenlively certainly has a lot of faith in himself.
Did I mention that I worked for Crystal Jiang’s team at Lawrence-Livermore Labs
You'd think he would be able to spell her name correctly. Just five letters, in the right order. Is that really so difficult, Kent?
"I’ll take you on with the full force of my intellect. And it won’t be pretty."
Should anyone tell him he forgot to call for a moratorium on flu shots for pregnant women--the perennial fall back of AVers everywhere for why we still have autism even though thimerosal was removed from all vaccines given to children before age 3 years?
using true mental openness
Through which one could drive a large truck?
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. Emphasis in the original.
Does this mean if I revive the worship of Tanit and Baal, it's okay for me to sacrifice some children?
I think I felt something similar to the full force of heckenlively's intellect when a light breeze blew by me as I left my home this morning.
I suspect I might have felt the full force of his intellect last night. I had a bit of gas after eating dinner. Too much cheese sometimes causes that in me.
Kent is bringing a plastic knife to a gun fight if he uses "the full force of [his] intellect" when it comes to immunizations. As for his books...well, self-publishing can be a wonderful thing. And then there's self publishing when you have no talent.
More like bringing a plastic spoon to a nuclear war.
Wouldn't a 5 year moratorium on childhood vaccines be taking away the rights of those who want to have their children vaccinated? Anti-vaxxers are always taking about medical freedoms.
And doesn't Paul Offit work for the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia?
Or did he sneak off to Pittsburgh to get away from anti-vax harassment?
I adopt herein all footnotes, exhibits, noted internet articles and videos by reference and incorporation
"Crivens!" I thought. "Can anyone write in this cargo-cult pastiche of the legal style and not be a Sovereign Citizen eedjit?"
Could be a different Ricardo Beas, of course.
If there's a moratorium on vaccinating, where is he going to get his "vaccinated" group for his study of vaccinated vs. unvaccinated?
"FOUR: Ban direct pharmaceutical advertising to consumers and allow such advertising only to medical professionals"
1. I see no direct advertising of vaccines to consumers save for HPV and meningitis vaccine (and much of that is aimed at parents protecting their teens, not 0-5 year-olds.)
2. By not stopping advertising to physicians, I guess Kent wants to keeps us physicians brainwashed and in the pocket of Big Pharma (because, you know, that one vaccine rep lunch I received last year consisting of a 6-inch ham sandwich, 1 cookie and a can of soda completely put me in their pocket)
The anti-vaxxers keep claiming (especially since 2014) that there is some "conspiracy" to cover up a "vaccine-autism link", but they cannot explain why, if pharma companies/the CDC, whatever, would cover up a "vaccine-autism link", they wouldn't cover up the link between RotaShield and intussusception.
I don't know how they can look at the prompt withdrawal of RotaShield as soon as there were signs that it might be unsafe, and still continue to see conspiracies everywhere...
Some patients with Congenital Rubella Syndrome have symptoms that meet the criteria for autism spectrum disorder, and a 2011 study found that, by preventing CRS, the MMR vaccine may have prevented as many as 6,225 cases of ASD between 2001 and 2010.
Berger, Brynn E., Ann Marie Navar-Boggan, and Saad B. Omer. "Congenital rubella syndrome and autism spectrum disorder prevented by rubella vaccination-United States, 2001-2010." BMC Public Health 11.1 (2011): 340.
Therefore, it appears that, if one is trying to prevent as many cases of ASD as possible, one of the ways to do that to maintain high vaccination coverage, to make sure that Rubella never again becomes endemic in the U.S..
In other words, Heckenlively had his way, there would actually be MORE autism.
They do certainly have "Don Quixote" syndrome - keep tilting at windmills pretending that anyone actually listens to them....
"Ban direct pharmaceutical advertising to consumers and allow such advertising only to medical professionals"
Most vaccines are not directly advertised to consumers. In fact, as far as I know, the only vaccines that are directly advertised to consumers are Zostavax (protects against Shingles), Prevnar 13 (protects against pneumococcal disease), the HPV vaccine, and Bexsero (anew vaccine against "meningitis B" meningococcal disease caused by serogroup B meningococcal ).
It's also worth noting that except for Prevnar, all of these vaccines are given to either older children or adults. The vaccines that people think of when they think of "childhood vaccines" (e.g., the MMR, Tdap, IPV, Hep B, and HIB vaccines) are not advertised to consumers.
Iirc, the US and New Zealand are the only countries that allow direct advertising of prescription drugs to consumers. Regrettably, direct advertising of quack nostrums, at least in Canada, is perfectly legal.
Congenital rubella syndrome got some mention during the peak of the Zika virus disease outbreak in Brazil. While the kooks were insisting microcephaly was due to [anything but ZIKV], others were pointing out that rubella had been a leading cause of microcephaly but that vaccination against it had reduced CRS to relative insignificance.
The thoroughly discredited Thompson whistle-blower idiocy that the AVers are constantly whining about actually showed (loose interpretation of 'showed') that vaccines did NOT cause an increase in autism for a majority of kids.
A reasonable White House might regard opening of a petition with a great big lie as a bad thing. Current version - I'm no so sure.
I'd forgotten that this monstrously stupid individual had a law degree. You'd really have to wonder...
I only came across him once when he was conspiring with his opposite number in the UK - the most ludicrously malignant crank Clifford Miller, who holds himself out to be a "solicitor of the supreme court" - a title once given even to the most shit-for-brains lawyer, but which was scrapped with the establishment of the supreme court in 2009. Again, bizarrely incompetent, and yet full of all the same bluster, as if heads of state of government are hanging on their words.
Please, somebody switch off the crank magnet.
What's it been, 2 - 3 years on the whole Thompson Affair?
To this day, he's never made any public statement, other than the first one through his lawyer......and he's still an employee of the CDC.
It is really damning to the anti-vax cause that even after all this time, they are no further along...
@Angela: True. If they put a moratorium on vaccines, doesn't that impede the rights of the majority who want to vaccinate?
@Lawrence #22-Yes, that was 3 years ago now, in 2014. The *only* public statement he ever made was issued through his lawyer, and in the statement he quite clearly stated that he would never encourage anyone not to have their children vaccinated, and that he believed that the benefits of vaccination outweighed the risks.
Orac, before you battle the Black Knight (Heckenlively) get your rabies shots prior to him trying to bite you to death.
Yes. I should have made Monty Python Black Knight jokes. Damn.
"true mental openness"
"In another age we would freely speak the name of the force that would allow the destruction of humanity. That name would be evil. It would be Satan. It would be Lucifer."...
"Now we’ve seen (Heckenlively) characterize vaccines as Lucifer, Satan, evil seeking to destroy humanity."
By "the force", couldn't he mean Paul Offit? Or even (gasp) Orac, the Ultimate Karn Evil?
It didn't seem possible that Kent could slide further into babbling brain salad, but such appears to be the case. :(
Wait. They've dumped Bill Thompson into the 'class action' enemies list along with Dorit and Paul Offit? Wasn't it just yesterday he was going to save the children by giving all the dirt to Bill Posey, and sending apologetic text messages to his new BFF Andy Wakefield? Could that all have been, well, just BS on the party of the AVs? Unless, you know, that photo of the text exchange AJW sent out was forged or something...
Yessiree, there's some fine schadenfreude in that little tidbit.
I'm willing to give him some slack for this one, as it's plausibly the result of Autocorrect. Jiang is a common surname; Jaing isn't. Letter transpositions like that are a common way of misspelling typed words. (I've encountered something similar as a paper referee: one author consistently spelled the name Raeder as Reader.)
That doesn't excuse any of the rest of his mistakes. Placing Dr. Offit in the wrong Pennsylvania city is a critical research failure, for instance. And if any attempt is made to implement his proposed moratorium, I expect multiple state health department lawyers to race to federal court with requests for an emergency injunction.
"Placing Dr. Offit in the wrong Pennsylvania city is a critical research failure, for instance."
On the plus side the next time the AV mob tries to harass him they'll go to the wrong city.
I just heard some more anti-vax lunacy/ conspiracy mongering today..
courtesy of ( who else?) Gary Null-
whilst applauding the magnificent river guardian and anti-vaccinationist, RFK jr, the hoary old woo-meister opines that it's the LIBERALS who are vaccine advocates and support giant corporations - not like in the good old days-
the only places you can hear RFK jr is via Null or Tucker Carlson! No NPR/ MSNBC et al
He then plays a tape of the latter.
( show at prn.fm, today)
I hear that there will be more. More more ((shudder))
As does the NWOD. When I last checked many years ago, the LSAT was pretty much the "analytical" section of the old GRE – basically, Dell logic puzzles, for ancient USians.
re law degrees and intelligence
It is possible for loons to slip through the screening process-
you CAN actually be rather bright and still fall for BS
Law boards test more general intelligence and specific capacities like language, not critical thinking skills / personality disorders / other ( i.e. problems filtering out crap)
Kent is not a new grad ( is he 50 or so?) and things can change over the years. His skills could have declined for a variety of reasons
I also find it rather odd that he (publicly) identifies with fantasy and comic characters ( what was one- a psychic detective or suchlike? in an AoA article)
Other bizarre- ness as well.
Simple. Little kids will volunteer at gunpoint to march into the cattle trucks and be carted away to be injected -- too soon, too often -- with a toxic witch's brew of mercury and chimeral DNA fragments and pig viruses in the hellpits of the CDC.
After all, who wouldn't do that in the hope of catching autism or asthma?
[OK, got to get myself out of his effed-up head now.]
And this differs from Heckenlively's usual modus operandi how? Oh yes, he normally fights without his brain.
The trouble with arguing with a fool, especially one not constrained by such trivial details as facts, is that it can be hard for layman observers to tell which is which. But Heckenlively is the most dangerous kind of fool: a resourceful one. So he has to be opposed anyway..
As for the law degree, I don't know if Heckenlively is acting as his own lawyer, but there's an old saying to the effect that anybody who does so has a fool for a client.
One other point about the law degree: Having one is a necessary but not sufficient condition for representing others as an attorney. One also has to pass the bar exam for the state(s) in which one wishes to practice. Some state bar exams are harder than others; California's is notoriously difficult. And unless two states have a specific reciprocity agreement, admission to the bar in one state does not mean admission to the bar in any other state. Most law degree holders never become lawyers.
There are also some ethical requirements for admission to the bar; e.g., a felony conviction is normally disqualifying. And even after you are admitted, you can be disbarred for certain infractions such as representing a client with whom you have a conflict of interest, or bouncing a check from the trust account.
It's not like we don't already have decades' worth of mortality and morbidity data on unvaccinated children.
I do understand what he's going for, comparing neurological development and/or impairment in vaccinated vs. unvaccinated kids, but given what we already know about risk factors for autism combined with the known risks of not vaccinating, such a study would not be justifiable.
These people won't get a clue until child mortality reaches pre-1940's levels again. I'm worried that may actually happen, at least in parts of the country.
Kent is actually admitted to the California Bar, for what that's worth. So are well over 100,000 other people (me included). I guess in a group that large, it's not unusual to find an eccentric.
You can find Ricardo Beas complaint in the following link: https://needtoknow.news/2017/07/2352/
And it's just as risibly, idiotically hilarious there as it is on FB and in the comments after Heckenlively's post.
Your response to my little post is too funny for words though. I can't deprive my readers of it:
Vaccines are manufactured by Evil Greedy Big Pharma, and this is a major reason for antivaccine loonies to demonize not just vaccines themselves, but also anything and anyone who is 'contaminated' through a connection with aforementioned Evil Greedy Big Pharma -- governments, health officials, the CDC, doctors, scientists, you name it, they're all part of the sinister worldwide conspiracy to poison the population.
Yet when it comes to their own personal health, they often preach the Vitamin Supplement Gospel, touting the huge benefits of massive doses of vitamin C or extra magnesium or whatever the supplement du jour is.
Now I always wondered if these people actually know where those supplements come from ... yep: Evil Greedy Big Pharma. So how come they literally never claim that all those so-called 'healthy' vitamin pills are actually part of the exact same conspiracy to poison the population, and only serve to make Big Pharma even richer?
Even imagining that feeds into Heckendeadly's delusions. The only way that attempt gets made is if Kent becomes the Health Minister of Gilead, all the state health officials and federal judges have been sent off to the glue factory, and the sun is blotted out by flying pigs filling the sky.
Why do I think the families of Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, Tamir Rice, Keith Lamont Scott, and Philando Castile (among others) might disagree. I don't buy the 'crank magnetism' thesis, but can we talk about dickhead magnetism?
Let's see, a) if 'parents of vaccine-injured children' are viciously attacked, and b) the vast majority of parents of ASD kids are not attacked at all, then c) it follows that their kids are not vaccine-injured, so d) the vaccines magically only injure the kids of loons who'll scream loud crazy stuff that gets them attacked. Brilliant. Or Kent is just writing with half his brain behind his back, about 28 inches up from the floor, inside a pair of Depends long overdue for a change.
Enjoy your freedom while you have it.
You will pay for this dearly.
Oh boy, he obviously has no idea how the legal system works.
Also, he probably realized that lawsuits cost money, hence his radically stupid attempt to get the government to do his work for him.....as the old meme goes - "that's not how this works, that's not how any of this works."
#43, is that a threat?
Also, citation needed, etc etc.
Richard@41: Actually, it's worse than that. Many of the people who rail about Evil Greedy Big Pharma, including Gary Null and Mike Adams, are themselves supplement sellers. Which means they are projecting like an IMAX theater: they are guilty of exactly what they accuse Evil Greedy Big Pharma of doing. Except that, due to quirks in US law, Evil Greedy Big Pharma is subject to restrictions that don't apply to supplement sellers.
@43: Are you threatening the commentors, the blog author or everyone? And why should I "pay dearly" for trying to cure cancer? Nasty person.
Re: direct marketing, I have seen a bunch of ads for pertussis vaccination directed at grandparents (they use a Big Bad Wolf motif), but I don't remember if they were for a specific vaccine or if they were just PSA's.
So, I wonder how much a Shill Mansion costs in "Crimes Against Humanity, USA?"
I also bet they have fantastic game nights.
There's a Ricardo Beas Velasco with a website, where he claims that his activities are immune from gubblement attention because he's a Church. Also a Sovereign Citizen barmpot. And an anti-vax loon of the mouth-frothing variety, so I'm guessing that it's the same Ricard Beas who affects pseudo-legal stylings and has commented above.
Needless to say, Beas also belongs to the bleach-enemas-for-children school of vileness.
these “unbiased” experts whom Beas cites include ... Boyd Haley
I see from LBRB that Haley is going back into business with his chelation-"supplement" scam:
Ken seems to over estimate the power of the Executive Branch.
1. Vaccination mandates for school are set by state law not federal. The President doesn't have the power to declare a moratorium on vaccination. Congress theoretically could ban them, but even they are not that stupid, and the courts would quickly throw it out.
2. The President can't repeal the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act. Again, that would require an act of Congress, and right now they can't agree that water is wet.
3. The President could order the CDC to perform such a study. Congress would have to appropriate the funding to do it, but even if they did, I doubt the CDC Director would have any part of such a thing. The CDC would simply point to the many studies already done.
4. Again, the President lacks the authority to do this. Congress would have to. Though, it IS something I would be on board with. But you can bet Big Pharma's lobbyists would not. So good luck with that.
well if this is a veritable "Murders Row" of toxic vaccine whores for Big Pharma, led by the pusher in chief dorito chip reiss.
well if this isn't a veritable “Murders Row” of toxic vaccine whores for Big Pharma, led by the pusher in chief dorito chip reiss.
Make up your tiny mind.
Thomas, we've all had our shots and like Mary, Queen of Scots in the Month Python sketch, we're not dead yet. We haven't murdered anyone either.
Seems to me that it would be very difficult to whore if you were on death row, but logic obviously isn't your strong point.
Some PhD student should do their thesis on the link between conspiracy theorists and their dreadful choices of metaphors.
Thomas, why do you think insults are a valid substitute for reasoned discussion and scientific evidence?
We haven’t murdered anyone either.
Euthanasia doesn't count, does it?
Asking for a friend.
It depends. Right to die laws vary.
Seems to me that #43's moniker and veiled threat could be construed to be directed at those responding to this post and thus violates terms of service.
Herr Doktor, I'd say "No" but consult a lawyer. No practical experience of either.
Canada is fighting over the fine print of this issue.
Some PhD student should do their thesis on the link between conspiracy theorists and their dreadful choices of metaphors.
Eric Blair had a few thoughts about the slovenly use of metaphors as a mark of cognitive incompetence -- a mind that is controlled by language rather than in control of it.
I had to share this from encyclopedia of loons (it gets weirder the farther down you go):
#1865: Beth Lambert
Epidemic Answers is an anti-vaccine organization formed by Beth Lambert, who bills herself as a former healthcare consultant and teacher – she appears to have no formal medical training, and has evidently no understanding of basic medicine. Epidemic Answers is known for their “documentary” Canary Kids: A Film For Our Children, an antivaccine conspiracy flick (discussed in detail here) announced in 2013 (but as far as we know not released yet) that “shows how all children in this country are a part of the autism epidemic.”
Wait, what? Oh, yes – according to the film vaccines are not only to blame for every chronic health problem children experience (including, it seems, those suffered by the non-vaccinated), it will also introduce a new diagnosis, “almost autism,” that encompasses basically everything, allowing any parent viewing the movie to conclude that their kids are “almost autistic” and therefore vaccine damaged. The produsers have been very clear that the movie is about marketing and rebranding: “What is going to make someone come out to see Canary Kids? … For too long, people not directly affected by autism have looked the other way, because they can’t relate to autism. They don’t know what it is, they don’t see how it impacts them. They may not come out to see a film about autism, but they will come out to see a film about their kids. Most people don’t understand that the asthma epidemic is directly related to the autism epidemic or that the obesity epidemic is related to the autism epidemic. They don’t yet see that the same environmental factors (pharmaceuticals, vaccines, toxins, diet, etc.) that cause symptoms of autism in one child are the very same environmental factors that cause symptoms of asthma in another.” Yes. No.
For the documentary, Lambert is apparently going to take seven children with “with a diagnosis of autism, ADHD, asthma, chronic Lyme or some other amalgamation of chronic (environmentally-derived) symptoms” and subject them to a whole range of autism biomed quackery, including “detoxification” and “supplementation” treatment in order to “heal” them. In other words, the movie seems to be more about selling autism quackery to a broader audience than the relatively few parents of autistic kids who are already into quackery, by making an infomercial consisting of a series of judiciously selected testimonials.
Lambert is also the author of the book A Compromised Generation: The Epidemic of Chronic Illness in America’s Children (with one Vicki Kobliner who runs a company, Holcare Nutrition, that touts “gluten-free, dairy free, low allergen, GFCF, SCD, GAPS, FODMAPS, and other appropriate diets” to treat a whole host of conditions that cannot be treated that way, and who is into functional medicine, which is among the most ridiculous types of crazy woo out there.)
Apparently Lambert herself has a child with “almost autism,” who had sensory, skin, allergies, and behavioral issues. Apparently, her pediatrician didn’t agree and said her child was fine and developing on-target, so Lambert took the child to a “Defeat Autism Now!” (DAN!) quack, who unsurprisingly found plenty of things wrong that Lambert could treat with expensive and invasive quackery.
Diagnosis: Not only an antivaxx fanatic, but one of those who apparently uses antivaxx conspiracies as a platform to promote quackery, woo and snakeoil – the kind that’s not only expensive, but which has the potential to really harm people. A horrible person.
@CJTX: that's so sad. That poor child. Talk about child abuse - I imagine the pediatrician hasn't seen the kid since, so can't report that woman for child abuse.
One of Bolen's own relatives pm'ed me to apologize for his behavior after he ran a hit piece on me. Can you imagine having to deal with such a person as family?
I know the relative of which you speak, I suspect. I've been in contact with him before, but not for a long time. I'm not going to reveal more.
Note to self - must re-read Orwell.
Thanks Herr Doktor.
Lambert seems to have a severe case of Munchausen by proxy. Damn, I'm as bad as she is! Diagnosing on the interwebs!
@ herr doktor:
About metaphors by the less talented-
Right, it's part of executive functioning and uses abstractions which *some* people aren't terribly adept with; I recall often the hilarity caused by the usual suspects by clumsy usage, unsophisticated childishness and ham handedness especially when they describe pharma and SBM-
exactly what you'd think.. re 'pharma whores' " they should have to wear pimp hats and clothes' ( see prn.fm)
'they're the Mob'
Similarly for the government and news agencies.
It usually does at that encycolpedia
I guess there's no point asking whether it's the real Tim Bolen. My lower back and head are too fried to go dig up the Usenet original, in any event.
The author either A. has an agenda, B. is getting paid by someone with an agenda, or C. is clinically an idiot. 1000's of mothers bring their healthy aware children into get vaccinated only to have them go into convulsions and/or permanently despondent state hours later... sometimes even immediately. Sometimes the child just starts screaming and NEVER stops... they start banging their heads on the floor.. all sorts of NEW, horrific behavior which suddenly occurs after vaccination.
Oh, and does the author know about the TRUST FUND which was STARTED by vaccine manufacturers for vaccine injured children? This was created so the FUND would be sued and NOT the vaccine manufacturers. A simple question for an eloquent and intelligent SOUNDING author of this article....Why do you suppose such a fund exists?
You have to ignore an AWFUL LOT of information, including extremely disturbing stories from normal, everyday people to write this GARBAGE.
Whether you arrive at your position by ignorance or by intention, I firmly say to you....burn in hell.
"1000’s of mothers bring their healthy aware children into get vaccinated only to have them go into convulsions and/or permanently despondent state hours later… sometimes even immediately. Sometimes the child just starts screaming and NEVER stops… they start banging their heads on the floor.. all sorts of NEW, horrific behavior which suddenly occurs after vaccination."
You have to ignore an AWFUL LOT of information, including extremely disturbing stories from normal, everyday people to write this GARBAGE.
Please provide said information.
Whether you arrive at your position by ignorance or by intention, I firmly say to you….burn in hell.
At the risk of violating the commenting rules, right back atcha, for allowing children to SUFFER from totally preventable diseases and complications because of your superstitions.
I didn't insult anyone. I just stated fact...
clinically an idiot
Just saying, "idiot" is not a clinical term.
TRUST FUND which was STARTED by vaccine manufacturers for vaccine injured children?
MR capital LETTERS is not doing very well on "comprehension of basic terms like 'trust fund'."
Babs Fisher is a vaccine manufacturer?
Thomas, I'm reminded of an Irish expression "I'm not calling you a liar, but you're a stranger to the truth."
Rockwell, I've had vaccinations and I've stopped screaming, except when paranoids like you begin to ramble.
Glad you had your shots Jane.The only thing it seemed to affect in you is your agility to see the truth about vaccines.
Well, yes, that's true.
She figured out vaccines are not the bogeyman some people claim them to be.
Thomas: "The only thing it seemed to affect in you is your agility to see the truth about vaccines."
Oh, do educate us! Just post the PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers that any vaccine in the present American pediatric schedule is more dangerous than the vaccine.
Thomas: "... I just stated fact…"
Please post a link to that "fact", and a link to evidence supporting to that "fact." Because it is not on this page.
@David Rockwell Sr. #70
Given the number of entries obtained when you type "VICP" or "NVICP" in the search engine, I'll hazard a guess and say he does know about that, yes.
"Enjoy your freedom while you have it.
You will pay for this dearly."
You mean you won't even accept our surrender?
Did you know that back in the early 1980's, vaccine manufacturers were SO afraid of getting sued for injuries/death from their vaccines after seeing them in action, that they spent millions/billions of dollars on lobbyists to pass a bill through congress to avoid ANY liability in case of injury? Did you know that in 1986, the US Government declared vaccines "unavoidably UNSAFE" and gave the manufacturers full immunity, should anyone die, or be injured in ANY way from vaccines? So if you find that your child dies from SIDS after their vaccines, you can't even sue the vaccine maker for damages? Or even to encourage them to make a safer vaccine? Did you know that only an estimated 1-10% of vaccine injury ever even gets reported because doctors aren't trained in how to spot vaccine injury in medical school? So the BILLIONS of dollars that the US Government has paid out to injured parties so far since 1986 is AT MOST only one tenth to one HUNDREDTH (arguably less) of the actual money that our government SHOULD be paying out for injury after a vaccine, should doctors actually be doing what is legally required of them and reporting these common injuries to the NVICP? Who do you think should be held liable for when a vaccine kills or maims a baby? The one responsible for the dangerous vaccine? The doctor who bullied you or didn't fully inform you of the risks? The nurse who injected it? Will any of these people be there with you when you hold your toddlers hand as they sedate them for their surgery to get their first, second or third set of tubes from their countless ear infections (which by the way is the most common vaccine injury)? What motivation do you think a vaccine manufacturer has to make their vaccines safer or better if they aren't held liable or accountable for their mistakes or failures? What motivation is there to move regular pharmaceutical drugs from their current classification, which can be sued for injury, to a vaccine classification to avoid all liability, while still making the profit they were before? What motivation is there for doctors to take that extra 20+ minutes to file a vaccine injury report? Would there be any motivation for them to skip it during their busy work days full of sick clients? Vaccine makers are FOR PROFIT companies. They are a business and they are not making vaccines out of the grace of their hearts. They are doing it to make a LOT of money. And vaccine injury, reported or not, earns them lifelong customers for their pharmaceutical divisions as well. And so the cycle of profit continues for th
That's a HUGE wall of text, and i don't think a single thing in there is a fact or accurate.
(admittedly, I skimmed).
Thomas, have you ever been at a vaccination clinic? I've worked in public health for over 25 years working along side nurses providing vaccinations. I don't know how many children I've seen get vaccinated. The worse reaction I've ever seen is the child (mainly boys) that are afraid of the shot(s). I helped with a mass vaccination of 4,000 grade school, middle school and high students in one afternoon with meningococcal vaccine. We didn't have one issue other than a nurse getting a needle stick. I will take my antidotal evidence over yours any day.
@Anna - "Did you know?"
No, I didn't - because none of what you've stated is actually true.
You really need to get your information from valid sources & not anti-vax websites or Facebook pages.
Thanks Rich, for your work and for reminding me of those shots in school. I remember some of us boasting that we watched the needle go in, and others whined about hating needles -yuck!
No permanent despondency, convulsions or non-stop screaming.
That would have disrupted classes.
Are you sure you don't come from another planet?
Jane, some claim I do.
More on Kent..
I just looked today @ Bolen's Steaming Heap of Burning Poo -
marked today-is a new entry by Kent wherein he carries on about Aragorn, Orac's post and re-names Orac ORC
( crap. that's not creative or original.. I've heard better, even 'Orca"-at least we can riff on Whale.to with that.
I guess it's all he's got.
@Anna, walking about my front door is also unavoidably unsafe. What's your point?
Sorry Rich - "other planet" was directed at Anna Whatitz - not you. Can't multitask well today.
Damn! Perhaps vaccine injuries ARE finally manifesting themselves? After sixty years and a Master's degree.
Whatever shall I do?
Jane, no offense was taken because some people do think I am from another planet. Part of it is EHSs have to have strange senses of humor.
Rich, thanks - I didn't know know that about Etobicoke Humane Society staff.?
Jane, I had to look up Etobicoke. Didn't know the place existed. EHS or Env. Health Specialist or what was once known as a sanitarian (which to my mine is a garbage man). Most people don't know that EH is the oldest arm of public health starting with Dr. Snow.
No, Ann. I actually don't know any of that . . . because it's not actually what happened.
What happened is, a spectacularly bad bit of reporting on DPT created a real scare among both parents and health care providers over that particular vaccine. Of course the lawyers jump in and started suing while medical researchers looked into what was really going on.
But science takes awhile. The pile of lawsuits scared Congress, which at the time wasn't BSC with hyper partisan ship and realized the public health disaster in the making. So they created VAERS, the NVIC, and the trust fund paid for by the vaccine manufacturers (cost passed down to us the consumer of course) to deal with what at the time seemed legit claims.
The purpose of the court is to compensate children who are actually harmed by a vaccine side effect in a no fault system, while ensuring that vaccines continue to be manufactured and available in the United States to protect the public from vaccine preventable diseases.
"Unavoidably unsafe" is unfortunately legal language that belies the truth about any medication: that there is no way to guarantee no one will ever have a side effect. It doesn't mean that anyone who gets a vaccine is playing Russian roulette with their health. It means there is some level of risk, the consumer must be informed of the risks, and the risks should be outweighted by the benefits. With vaccines, they undeniably are . . . unless you are an anti vax nut.
I'm not going to address most of your other nonsense, but I will tell you that physicians who think their patients have been suffered a serious side effect of any medication will, as a general rule, not have a problem documenting that so the problem can be tracked and dealt with.
But since the vast majority of physicians know that vaccines are safe, they're not going to document every fever, or even every seizure.
Rich, just my stupid little Canadian joke!
Excellent synopsis, Panacea.
Real Thomas here (not the one posting nonsense about).
Those of you who have been following Orac's blog for a while will remember Kent Heckenlively as the person who decided that magic bugs in his child's body have the ability to manufacture metals http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/05/14/the-price-of-anti-vaccine-…
He's also the one whose previous posts were so disturbingly unhinged that they required interpretation by well-known theological blogger Fred Clarke http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2011/07/20/a-lamentation-for-a…, who points out that poor Kent will have to work a long time to redeem himself once he gets his head straight again.
P.S. A note to the fellow who thinks hell is appropriate for anyone who works for children's health: If you want to condemn Orac to hell, you'll have to get behind the Holocaust deniers, child abusers, and quacks who have been condemning him to hell for years. If you can judge a man by his enemies, Orac is doing fine - you on the other hand, not so much.
Signed the petition, thanks for sharing!
Tina, my condolences on the death of your brain.
Jane: and to think, the people who impulsively sign crap like this are the very sorts who refer to those who follow science as "sheeple."
But your comeback was priceless.
The tragic thing is that people are being encouraged by the AV movement to blame their kid's problems on vaccines. Who said life was fair? Hell, they are finding imaginary problems - and expensive imaginary solutions!
I'm sure the Goldwater Institute would not approve of this initiative.
Like 'Andrew Wakefield, Toni Bark, Nancy Banks, Jay Gordon, Tetyana Obukhanych, Lawrence Palevsky, Russell Blaylock, Leonard Horowitz, Suzanne Humphries, Boyd Haley, Philip Weeks (a naturopath, of course!), Sherri Tenpenny, Theresa Deisher, Lucija Tomljenovic, and other well-known antivaccine crank “scientists” and physicians' have no financial interests in this issue. Idiot.
Where there is risk there shall be choice. I do not waive my right to informed consent. Individual rights take precedence over the herd mentality. The fact is that you are ignoring actual doctors and the scientific community, the supplement industry, the families, and others who dare question the safety and efficacy of vaccines. You are putting them all in a box and labeling them quacks. This is not the first time that people have been ostracized for the different views. There is nothing wrong with being a Naturopath. Oh my, what did we do before big pharma. Like everything else in life, we need to go back to basics. Modern society has a huge problem. That problem is not those of us who choose to take charge of our own and that of our family's health. We make our own choices and do not aspire to go along with the herd mentality. No vaccines for me by choice. It is my choice and not yours. So do all your name calling and insults that you want but you are not my God.
It is okay to question the safety, but not okay to ignore the data. There will always be something wrong with naturopathy if they continue to be taught, and actually use homeopathy and other hand waving nonsense.
"Like everything else in life, we need to go back to basics."
Like refusing to use indoor plumbing? Going back to blood letting? Perhaps ignoring all the of the medical achievements developed since Galen.
Perhaps instead of tone trolling you can provide us the PubMed indexed studies by reputable qualified researchers that any vaccine on the present American pediatric schedule causes more harm than the diseases.
Paula, what you ignore is that the safety record of vaccines is well studied, and continually reviewed.
There's everything wrong with being a naturopath. These people (perchance are you one and that's why you're feeling particularly butthurt?) have no actual ability to diagnose, manage, or treat disease.
I'll tell you what we did before Big Pharma.
We died. Many thousands of us, often horrible deaths. If you want a modern day example of what our ancestors went through, all you have to do is hop a plane and go to Port au Prince in Haiti, where cholera is still endemic after an earthquake a few years ago. Go see for yourself the kind of hell those patients go through without access to Big Pharma, and real doctors, and real nurses who actually know what the f*** they are doing.
Your rights stop at my nose. If you want to isolate yourself and be a disease ridden cow, knock yourself out. You don't have the right to spread infectious disease to the rest of us.
it's great you guys didn't get injured by a vaccine but there are plenty who have including myself.The i'm fine so it doesn't matter mentality is quite frankly disgusting and you should all be ashamed of yourselves. It states we are to be shown this information but we are not. had I been shown this I would have skipped the damn shot. As it stands i have several of the adverse events reported below. A Moratorium is needed for sure.
PATIENT COUNSELING INFORMATION
422 The parent or guardian should be:
423 • informed of the potential benefits and risks of immunization with INFANRIX, and of the
424 importance of completing the immunization series.
425 • informed about the potential for adverse reactions that have been temporally associated with
426 administration of INFANRIX or other vaccines containing similar components.
427 • instructed to report any adverse events to their healthcare provider.
428 • given the Vaccine Information Statements, which are required by the National Childhood
429 Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 to be given prior to immunization. These materials are available
430 free of charge at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) website
In addition to reports in clinical trials, worldwide voluntary reports of adverse events received
229 for INFANRIX since market introduction are listed below. This list includes serious events and
230 events that have a plausible causal connection to INFANRIX. These adverse events were
231 reported voluntarily from a population of uncertain size; therefore, it is not always possible to
232 reliably estimate their frequency or establish a causal relationship to vaccination.
233 Infections and Infestations
234 Bronchitis, cellulitis, respiratory tract infection.
235 Blood and Lymphatic System Disorders
236 Lymphadenopathy, thrombocytopenia.
237 Immune System Disorders
238 Anaphylactic reaction, hypersensitivity.
239 Nervous System Disorders
240 Encephalopathy, headache, hypotonia, syncope.
241 Ear and Labyrinth Disorders
242 Ear pain.
243 Cardiac Disorders
245 Respiratory, Thoracic, and Mediastinal Disorders
246 Apnea, cough.
247 Skin and Subcutaneous Tissue Disorders
248 Angioedema, erythema, pruritus, rash, urticaria.
249 General Disorders and Administration Site Conditions
250 Fatigue, injection site induration, injection site reaction, Sudden Infant Death Syndrome.
This is a list of things reported after the vaccine, not caused by it. Serious harms from vaccines are extremely rare - and the diseases they prevent cause extensive harm. A moratorium because of the exceedingly rare harms would mean a lot of babies, children and people dead or seriously harms that wouldn't have been. The goal is to minimize harms, and vaccines do that.
Informed consent for vaccination does not require telling the patient/parent about every single potential adverse event cited in the package insert, any more than informed consent for being prescribed a drug requires telling the patient about every potential/dubious side effect listed in the PDR.
@ Dangerous Bacon:
Oh Dangerous One!
Some anti-vaxxers liken 'vaccine damaged'/ i.e. autistic, children to military who died in Viet Nam
the VAXXED bus with names is their Memorial Wall
( see AoA, Rossi).
Last time I looked, those kids and young people were uh.. you know
These are things CAUSED BY VACCINES. I don't get what you people don't understand about this. It's very obvious that most people report a slow onset of their reaction. The same story repeated over and over again by parents. Just because you didn't drop dead while the needle was still in you does not mean dit has nothing to do with it. Hoe could I run 7 miles with ease just two days before get vaccinated and then loose the ability to do anything ? After Much research and years of suffering I started on a mercury detox program and I am actually recovering. And yes the shot was mutli dose and contained Mercury. I'm clearly not anti vax since I did what society told me to do and boy did I pay for that. If you can't deal with the fact this is happening you need to get a stronger back bone and man up and face reality. Vaccine injuries are real and they are not going anywhere unless all of you who like to attack and undermine the victims of these atrocities support efforts to do unbiased research by non profit organizations with no financial ties or interests one way or the other. What are you people so afraid of ? Are you afraid of the truth ? Why can't you face it. Because you will wake up with Polio in the morning ? If it's true that about half of the adult population has not been vaccinated since childhood then that is a lot of people out there with immunity to nothing ( unless they caught the disease naturally) . People are not dying in the streets as you can clearly see so get a grip.
Dorit Reiss please tell me what would count as being caused by the vaccine then ? My family has no history of these issues and I was in PERFECT health and an active person who was in shape. Does my eyeball need to explode whilst the needle is still in me ? A load of BS !
Lucian: go back and look again at what you yourself posted:
"These adverse events were reported voluntarily from a population of uncertain size; therefore, it is not always possible to reliably estimate their frequency or establish a causal relationship to vaccination."
The list you posted are symptoms reported after getting this vaccine. However, that does not mean the symptoms were CAUSED by the vaccine. Correlation does not equal causation.
You claim to be "vaccine injured" but you don't tell us what that actually means: not which vaccine, what happened, or why it justifies any kind of moratorium.
Consider this: out of the billions of vaccines administered there are only a few hundred serious adverse events actually shown to be the cause of the vaccine (and yes, I know they do happen; I had a patient who had a serious reaction to a vaccine, and I've had an allergic reaction to the tetanus toxoid vaccine).
Vaccines have an incredible safety record.
Lucian: " I don’t get what you people don’t understand about this. It’s very obvious that most people report a slow onset of their reaction."
The plural of anecdote is not data. Please provide the PubMed that any vaccine on the present American pediatric schedule causes more harm than the vaccines.
For instance you list includes "encephalopathy", which is also caused by measles at a rate of about one out of a thousand cases. Just prove the MMR vaccine used in the USA since 1978 causes more.
"People are not dying in the streets..."
Due at least in part to vaccines. The vehemence of your opinions, your motivated misunderstanding of vaccine inserts and your demonstrated reasoning failures are poor arguments against the evidence.
Correlation does not equal causation. What vaccine are you talking about. Your list is from the DTaP. There is no mercury in the DTaP, well no thimerosol, which is not toxic in the amounts that used to be used in any case.
But you are right: people are not dying in the streets. They're not dying because 1) vaccines prevent deadly diseases, and 2) vaccines are very safe.
What was your point again?
Hmmm... one of those diseases prevented by DTaP is diphtheria. A little boy in Spain died from that disease, even though they got antitoxin from Russia:
One reason Russia had antitoxin, was because they had their own epidemic shortly after the USSR broke, and thousands died:
Diphtheria in the former Soviet Union: reemergence of a pandemic disease.
If you had your way, Lucian, there would be lots more little pediatric coffins. So if you are going to make a claim, you better have very good evidence to support those claims. Perhaps you could start by giving us the PubMed indexed studies that show the very real toxins actually produced by diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis bacteria are safer than any vaccine on the present American pediatric schedule.
Seriously, prove to us tetanospasmin is perfectly safe.
So what caused the symptoms then ??????????? What ? tell me what ? I clearly had a medical intervention and reacted to it. On top of this the symptoms I have are the same as several of the ones listed. I have had more blood drawn than I care to remember and according to science there isn't a damn thing wrong with me. I guess it serves me right to argue with a bunch of GMO , pesticide loving, pharma trolls. peace out.
So how did you claim to wi5h National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program go? Just give us some evidence,
Plus, why do you think blatant assertions and a list of insults is a valid substitute for verifiable evidence?
Lucian: "The i’m fine so it doesn’t matter mentality is quite frankly disgusting and you should all be ashamed of yourselves."
Lucian: "People are not dying in the streets (from vaccine-preventable diseases) as you can clearly see so get a grip."
I find Lucian's attitude (and hypocrisy) quite frankly disgusting.
Bless his heart.
How the hell am I going to give you evidence ? This is the problem in the first place. There is no way to prove anything either way. What method of science would be used to prove vaccine injury ?
Oooh. I guess Lucian told us.
Seriously, dude. If you started having symptoms after receiving a vaccine, the vaccine might have caused it and might not have. There's little way to know at this point.
Sounds to me more like you're angry that you don't feel good, but doctors can't identify the problem after exhaustive evaluation. That's a shame. Sometimes there are no answers.
But the solution isn't necessarily to blame the vaccine, and as Chris pointed out you could file a claim with the NVICP and probably get an award since the bar is actually pretty low.
That sounds better than "mercury detox" which sounds an awful lot like chelation therapy.
I believe I stated I found an answer. I got a homeopathic Doctor and started a mercury detox program. I also do Saunas several times a week. I can now at least walk at a normal pace again without being in so much pain. It's a slow process but that along with strict diet has helped a lot. I just find it AMAZING that no matter what vaccines are not to blame. AMAZING !!!!!!!!
That was a short-lived flounce.
Lucian: "What method of science would be used to prove vaccine injury ?"
Then adds: "I got a homeopathic Doctor and started a mercury detox program. I also do Saunas several times a week."
Well, the answer on what method of science to use is to first learn something about science. You claim of using a homeopathic doctor who scammed you into a mercury detox pretty much means you lack that education, and are very gullible.
More than likely you got some kind of viral illness, strained some muscles or something else... and you were cured by the tincture of time.
Lucian: “What method of science would be used to prove vaccine injury ?”
Andrew Wakefield said he had one 20 years ago.
I fainted right at the Dr's office before getting a vaccine some years ago. Should that happened after I got my vaccine, would the two events be linked or not? Given that it was before getting the vaccine, it's not linked even though that fainting happened in temporal proximity with the vaccine.
From page 11 of 13 of the manufacturer's insert Tripedia (the Diphtheria,Tetanus and Pertussis vaccine), I repeat, the manufacturer:
"Adverse events reported during post-approval use of Tripedia vaccine include idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, SIDS, anaphylactic reaction, cellulitis, autism, convulsion/grand mal convulsion, encephalopathy, hypotonia, neuropathy, somnolence and apnea. Events were included in this list because of the seriousness or frequency of reporting."
Ed. What's your point?
Some anti-vaxxers liken ‘vaccine damaged’/ i.e. autistic, children to military who died in Viet Nam
the VAXXED bus with names is their Memorial Wall
( see AoA, Rossi).
Last time I looked, those kids and young people were uh.. you know
Most of the anti-vax parents wish their kids weren't.
Ed: "From page 11 of 13 of the manufacturer’s insert Tripedia (the Diphtheria,Tetanus and Pertussis vaccine), I repeat, the manufacturer:"
Um, bad news. Tripedia has been unavailable from the market for years: http://web.archive.org/web/20160820141845/http://ashp.org/menu/DrugShor…
Do try to keep up, and stop reading outdated websites.
CDC defines Sudden Infant Death Syndrome as “the sudden death of an infant less than 1 year of age that cannot be explained after a thorough investigation is conducted, including a complete autopsy, examination of the death scene, and a review of the clinical history.” Because SIDS deaths are “unexplained,” inclusion in the your list cannot be understood to mean that that reported adverse events such as SIDS were caused by the vaccine. Try reading the package insert for understanding.
brian, that vaccine has been off the market for over five years. Nothing on its package matters... because it is no longer used in the real world!
Reported. Not "investigated and confirmed as having been caused by the vaccine". REPORTED.
Could all science-denying anti-vaxxers please show some real commitment to anti-science, and also start denying the science that works their computers and cellphones?
If they are really committed to the anti-knowledge cause, then they could conscientiously object to using any and all science based innovations or knowledge, and go and live in a cave in the hills.
No fire, or wheels, or agriculture allowed though. That's how all this human knowledge and advancement nonsense got started in the first place.
You guys are pathetic..
Let the parents decide on the vaccinations for their kids.
If your child is vaccinated, why do you worry that an un-vaccinated kid will make him/her sick? I don't get it.
Anyways, thanks for the link to WH petition - it's the best part of your article. I'll go sign it asap.
Well, did ya?
There are many reasons why vaccinating is a good idea and things are a bit more complcated than you think.
First, so if the parents are fine with their kids getting a disease which can lead to dead or permanent damage, it's theirs to decide. So I suppose you also want to let parents decide if they want to give their child alcohol, or drive without safety belts. and of course, let people also decide to drive drunk, it's their desicion, isn't it?
It's good to have as many people vaccinated as possible, because vaccins are not perfect. There is always a small percentage of people, where the vaccine doesn't work. Second, there are children to young to be vaccinated, who are at risk if they come in contact with disease carrying others. Those others may not be ill at that moment, but they are allready able to spread the disease. Third, there are people who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons (and I mean real medical reasons, not the ones some people think of, to let their child go to school without being properly vaccinated).
I'm sure there are people around here with more medical knowledge and a better knowledge of English, who might be able to tell you more.