"Green Our Vaccines": "Pro-safe vaccine" or anti-vaccine? You be the judge! (Part 2)

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In the leadup to Jenny McCarthy's little antivaccination-fest tomorrow, it appears the the medical community has at least roused itself enough to write an open letter to Congress about immunizations. It's not much, but at least it's something. I hope all the signatories are ready for a P.R. blitz…
Something happened yesterday that rarely happens. I got back from ASCO rather late and was so tired that I didn't have time to post one of my characteristic, Respectfully Insolent magnum opuses (magnum opi?). Fortunately, I had just the thing prepared. I'm not the only one who's expressed…
Maybe I need to inaugurate some sort of monthly award for the best comment, as some other ScienceBloggers do. If I had such an award, surely this comment earlier today by Prometheus would be in serious contention for it: Re: "Green Vaccines" One of the things that the "Greens" are in favor of is…
The organizers of the "Green Our Vaccines" rally yesterday went to great trouble to keep repeating a mantra that they "aren't anti-vaccine" but rather "pro-safe vaccine" (or, as Jenny McCarthy likes to put it, "anti-toxin"). I've argued that it's all a cynical ploy to hide their true agenda. What…

Ick. Um, to answer your rhetorical questiion: anti-vaccine. Its like the creepy Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron trying to minister to queer people. Just ick. It takes a few showers to wash that off of you.

Though I wonder if Celene Dion and Frida know their lyrics are being misused? Personally I would be pissed if I were them.

This is utter madness. These people may very well cause the deaths of thousands.

In the past, mass concentrations of people in cities have always resulted in mass outbreaks of disease, and the only reason that this has not happened to us is because of modern water purification, sanitation and especially universal vaccination. Pull out any one of those, and you certainly will get epidemics.

:)
Truly, what else can one say, Dr. B?

Where were the other 7500 people hiding?

By D. C. Sessions (not verified) on 06 Jun 2008 #permalink

If the rally and the AoA website is not anti-vaccine as they purport, why not comment on the posters rather than proudly display them? This is totally in line with Olmsted's MO. Generate as much hysteria as possible and never directly or honestly present their position.

I will say one thing though. I tune into the AoA site regularly just to keep an eye on a rather radical and dangerous segment of our population (albeit quite small). I've tried to (very respectfully) post from time to time, and guess what? They never post my comments. Go figure! But, that's all part of the AoA propaganda machine. At least this site invites dissenting opinions and displays their comments. It just goes to show that when you have rational reasoning and data to back up a position, the truth can withstand analysis and critique.

The one that gets me is the one that says something like "if I'd had the flu, I'd have recovered by now." Well, given modern medicine and all, that's probably a pretty good bet. But would the child have recovered from polio by now? A "normal" case of measles is one thing, but a really bad case? Do you want your child to get whooping cough, or one of its potential complications: malnutrition, dehydration, pneumonia, encephalitis, pulmonary hypertension, and secondary bacterial superinfection? Unvaccinated kids around the world still die by the thousands from whooping cough and its complications.

By TheOtherOne (not verified) on 06 Jun 2008 #permalink

"Where were the other 7500 people hiding?"

It's a side effect of vaccines.

In the word(s) of George Constanzo: Shrinkage.

By Dangerous Bacon (not verified) on 06 Jun 2008 #permalink

If I'm not mistaken, the woman who put that video together including the creative spelling of "Verstraeten," is the same woman who featured a video of her own child getting himself cured with a vinegar and garlic IV infusion. These people don't have enough sense to be ashamed of themselves. Surely they didn't expect someone to show up from the CDC? These people are conspiracy believers, ignorant, and some of them obviously off their rockers.

By Vinegar and Ga… (not verified) on 06 Jun 2008 #permalink

Woah! That is also the same woman who had the very unique spelling of thimerosal. I must agree though. Why didn't Dr Offit and Dr Gerberding make an appearance? Oh crap! That's right only actors and centerfolds allowed.

I, for one, wouldn't want Dr. Offit or Dr. Gerberding anywhere near these people. They are definitely reality-challenged, and I'm sure that more than a few of them are dangerous. They are seriously in deep roving right if they believe half the crap that was on those signs. That sounds harsh, I know; certainly autism spectrum disorders are no laughing matter. But these people are doing their cause and their children no service by conspiracy-mongering. I am in public health myself (not a clinician) and I can say with certainty that you don't go into the field to get rich; you care about people, and the last thing you want to do is hurt them. I'm sick of the cranks accusing everyone who disagrees with them of being hell bent on getting rich and hurting children intentionally.

So was this rally held years ago when there was some thimerosal in vaccines? What if there were no hypothetical questions?

For the life of me I have no idea what "Greening our Vaccines" could possibly mean as there is a massive effort to maintain the safety of vaccines. They are one of the truly great success stories in medicine. And I'm not exactly sure what could be done better outside of giving more of them to people.

Well Orac, I hope you're happy. That YouTube post actually necrosed my cingulate gyrus. For God's sake, they played ersatz ABBA!! Had it been Fernando, I may have forgiven them. Those bastards....

By More Virchow-Bell (not verified) on 06 Jun 2008 #permalink

Rather off-topic, except that it came up during all this:

Vaccination used to have good poster children. They seem to have gone out of style, though. However, if any public-health department wanted to run a 30-second public-service track showing a baby going through this:

http://www.whoopingcough.net/cough-child-muchwhooping.wav

and nothing else, with text-over of "Whooping cough lasts about three months."

Does anyone think the public would notice?

By D. C. Sessions (not verified) on 07 Jun 2008 #permalink

Are the anti-vaccine yahoos also opposed to:

Hand washing
Butt wiping
Dish washing
Laundry
?

This seems as good a thread as any about the AV liars...can I ask just one question. Do they also think that ADD is caused by vacciantion? Because if they do I want to have a stand up brawl with them. My son is fully vaccinated (of course!) and has ADD and I see absolutely no linkage at all. (Of course I see no linkage between vaccination and Austism either.) Sorry for the off topic question.

The slogans are definately straight out of the AV liars camp too - not simply deluded people who want "better" vaccines.

The mercury parents and biomed whackos of autism have been trying to rope in all the ADHD parents into the insanity for at least 4 years. Fortunately, they don't seem to have made much headway with that.

I have never heard of a kid going from not-hyperactive to hyperactive within a short time after a vaccine. If they could convince parents of ADHD to believe that it did happen to their children that way (nevermind the evidence) then maybe they'd get some converts, but, and I say this as the parent of an autism spectrum adult... the parents of autistic kids are not normal as a group.

Sure there are some above normal, very smart, very ethical, very cautious, aware, skeptical, possessed of common sense... but there is a significant proportion of the parents of autistic kids who are just plain weird, if not flaming mentally ill. They (we, to be fair) tend toward having OCD, bipolar, social skills problems, and there's some evidence that they (we) are hypersensitive to criticism.

I tell you one of the big problems with autism is the number of CRAZIES among the activist parents.

By Ms. Clark (not verified) on 07 Jun 2008 #permalink

Sure there are some above normal, very smart, very ethical, very cautious, aware, skeptical, possessed of common sense... but there is a significant proportion of the parents of autistic kids who are just plain weird, if not flaming mentally ill. They (we, to be fair) tend toward having OCD, bipolar, social skills problems, and there's some evidence that they (we) are hypersensitive to criticism.

I'm a weird, autistic parent of an autistic child. But I hope I'm included in your first group there, Ms. Clark :)

I'm going to have to disagree with all of the previous posts. I am going trust a mother's instincts over a doctor. You see, a mother has nothing to gain by accusing vaccines as the culprit of her child's autism. And, in the US why should any of us trust peds when they will chop off a healthy functioning part of a child's penis "just so that he can look like daddy." Well, I guess he does it to make baby and daddy twinsies AND to bulk up the bill a bit. I suppose that there were a bunch of conspiracy-loving-idiots that also argued that lobotomies didn't work. I'm sure that there was a crowd of people-pleasers just like yourselves that called those people the "Lobotomy Quackaries." I know just what you morons are thinking, "Damn free thinkers! If I had to vaccinate my child with loads of poison then you should too!" Oh, and let's not forget formula! Docs will tell you that it's just as safe and wonderful as breastmilk. Our bodies come with this thing, it's called an immune system. Ever heard of it?! Or do you think it's injected into us as infants, thank god almighty for science. Y'all probably believe in god too. I wonder what he would say about tampering with the human body that he made on the 5th or was it the 6th day? I guess vaccines are ok, if god made us in his image, as long as he's pumped up on toxins too.

I am going trust a mother's instincts over a doctor.

So, you're an idiot. What do you want, a cookie?

You see, a mother has nothing to gain by accusing vaccines as the culprit of her child's autism.

Yes, poor little Jenny McCarthy only got a book deal, magazine covers, talk show appearances and a return to the limelight she so desperately needs...

And Sarah, I am thinking lots of things about you, but "free thinker" isn't one of them.

By grenouille (not verified) on 09 Jun 2008 #permalink

You see, a mother has nothing to gain by accusing vaccines as the culprit of her child's autism.

I don't think the argument is that moms are deliberately deceiving people. So that's not really relevant. That said, anti-vax moms have a lot to gain, as in millions of dollars, potentially. Here's a documented example of a mom who was caught doing what looks like planting evidence to make it appear that her son was vaccine injured, when in fact, the son is probably autistic because the dad was the same way as a child.

Wow, I've never seen so much crazy (and ignorance) packed into a comment until sarah g. It's like she stepped right out of mothering.com.

In fact, I'm almost persuaded it's a parody. Almost.