tlambert | September 21, 1993Michael J. Phelps said:
Is it not possible that many unsuccessful robberies are not reported, thus
not included in the NCS data?
NCS data is not based on reports, but a very extensive survey.
Consider that a person who is on the
receiving end of an attempted robbery didn't loose anything [so what are
they reporting?], may not consider themselves a victim [after all, the
crime wasn't completed], and doesn't see what benefit there would be in
spending the time reporting the attempt.
The NCS asks "did anyone try to rob you?"
On a personal note, 5 guys tried
to rob me some years ago; they didn'…
tlambert | September 21, 1993Kleck's survey:
(1) 2,500,000 defensive uses
(2) 8% of these involve wounding/killing a criminal.
Therefore:
8% of 2,500,000 = 200,000 defensive uses involve wounding/killing a
criminal.
Kleck's earlier research:
(3) 15% of gunshot wounds are fatal.
David Barton said:
I strongly suspect a combination of 2 and 3. Note that (as I recall,
in the dim recesses of my memory; I would appreciate correction) Kleck
arrived at the 15% figure by dividing reported gun woundings against
reported fatalities. I suspect that: eyewitness reports by those
involved in incidents will over-report woundings (…
tlambert | September 20, 1993Larry Cipriani said:
KLECK: About 8 percent of the defensive uses involved a
sexual crime such as an attempted sexual assault. About 29
percent involved some sort of assault other than sexual assault.
Thirty-three percent involved a burglary or some other theft at
home.
33% of 2,500,000 is 825,000. NCS data gives 1,000,000 burglaries each
year when there is someone at home. So in 83% of these burglaries a
gun was used for defence?? NCS asked: 3% said they used a gun for
self-defence.
Twenty-two percent involved robbery.
22% of 2,500,000 is 550,000. NCS data gives about 1,000,000…
tlambert | September 20, 1993Nosy said:
Perhaps Lambert can explain why the US murder RATE in
which feet and/or fists were used as weapons is higher
than the Canadian or UK murder rate with the same
weapons.
Are feet and/or fists more "readily available" in
the United States than in Canada or the UK?
Why Nosy, didn't you know that weapon availability is not the sole
determinate of the homicide rate? Given that, why can't you come up a
international comparison to support your position involving first
world nations?
Switzerland does not have more gun
owners than the US (no matter whether you count total owners, percent…
tlambert | September 20, 1993In "Point Blank" Gary Kleck writes:
``One way one might crudely and partially control for United
States-Japan cultural differences is to compare homicide rates among
Japanese-Americans, who live where guns are plentiful, with the homicide
rates of their presumably culturally similar brethren in Japan, where
private gun ownership is nearly nonexistent. Certainly this pair of
populations is more comparable than the population of Japan compared
with the entire U.S. population.
Not necessarily. The US does not accept immigrants with criminal
records, so this group of Japanese-…
tlambert | September 16, 1993Peter K. Boucher said:
We have higher homicide rates than many nations, but guns aren't
the cause of it. In any case, this kind of comparison can be
used by both sides (Mexico has stricter gun control and more
homicide, while Switzerland has more gun owners and less homicide),
but it remains IRRELEVANT.
Progunners have to reach into the third world and get their facts
wrong for their comparisons --- Switzerland does not have more gun
owners than the US (no matter whether you count total owners, percent
owners, or militia guns as `owned').
If you would like to argue that such
comparisons are…
tlambert | March 22, 1993Jim De Arras said:
Well, Mr. Lambert, lets have the numbers for .au, and see where the trend leads
us.
Here are all the numbers I have.
Country % at-home % gun homicide
burglaries ownership rate
Netherlands 48 2 0.9
England 26-59 5 0.7
Australia 10 20 2.0
Canada 10 31 2.1
USA 14 49 8.8
The Australian "at-home" burglary rate is actually for Victoria. The
range given for England is because the rate is 59% for attempted
burglaries and 26% for completed burglaries,…
tlambert | March 21, 1993Jim De Arras said:
60% of all house burglaries in GB occur while the house is
occupied. Less than
10% here. More than 50% of homes here have firearms, less than 5% there.
I've proven that the mere existence without use of most guns in
homes in the USA makes even your gunless home safer to sleep in than
homes in GB.
Let's see: Your proof goes:
(1) Gun ownership is greater in the US than in GB.
(2) "At-home" burglaries are more common in GB than in the US.
Therefore:
(3) Gun ownership deters "at-home" burglary.
We also have:
(4) Gun ownership is greater in the US than in Canada.
(5) "At-…
tlambert | March 12, 1993Bill Gray said:
[talking about Orlando gun training]
Anyway, during the period after the training when the rapes dropped so
dramatically, none of the women ever fired their weapons. Moreover, none
of them shot a husband or boyfriend, nor were any children harmed with
these firearms.
I personally called the Orlando PD to confirm as much of this as I could,
and it checks out with their records department. There was an increase
in homicide the same year, but the base numbers were so low that even one
or two additional would come out to the 22%--in short, it wasn't like
they dropped 122…
tlambert | March 2, 1993Since Scripter argues so badly, litters his postings with insults and
outright lies, deliberately cooks his statistics and frequently gets
his facts wrong, it seems to me that he he is trying to convince
people that the pro-gun case is totally without merit. Is Charles Scripter an HCI plant?
Ingredients of a Scripter posting.
(1) Insults:
... oppressors, such as yourself, ...
... stupid sheep ...
... Lambert, much as the rapist does ...
... Tim "Lean back and enjoy it" Lambert.
You are
but a filthy vermin that scurrys for hiding when the light is turned
on. Likewise your arguments require…
tlambert | February 19, 1993Diederich Andrew Richard said:
What you need to know before the fight begins is that the gun control
lobby has no intention of fighting a good fight based on truth
and accuracy. They intend to use disinformation, inaccuracy and lies
to mislead you.
And then follows an article full of disinformation, inaccuracy and
lies. I'll just comment on the new stuff.
Remember Morton Grove? That was the suburban community in Illinois
where liberal anti-gunners wrested control of local government and
passed a local ordinance that prohibited anyone but a peace officer
from owning a handgun.
What the…
tlambert | February 18, 1993Diederich Andrew Richard said:
According to a 1986 survey of 2,000 imprisoned felons:
57% believed encountering an armed victim is the
worst thing that could happen.
False. The closest thing I could find in Wright and Rossi [1] to this is
57% agreed that "Most criminals are more worried about meeting an
armed victim than they are about running into the police", which is
hardly the same thing at all. When asked what THEY (rather than
others) regularly worried about, the results were:
Might get caught 34
Might have to go to prison 30
Family might look down on you 30
Might…
tlambert | January 28, 1993In other words, the NCS only counts defensive uses against crimes.
Andy Freeman said:
Wrong. NCS doesn't get into defensive uses unless the victim thinks
that a crime occurred even if it was successfully self-defended
against. As in "Have you been the victim of a crime?" Someone who
successfully self-defended against an armed robber might well answer
"no". They weren't a victim. Yet, that's a self-defense against
crime, one that the NCS wouldn't ever find out about.
In fact the NCS does not ask "Have you been the victim of a crime?".
Andy appears to have made that question up. The…
tlambert | January 12, 1993brian.m.leary said:
The residential burglary rate in Kennesaw, Georgia dropped sharply
after a city ordinance requiring heads of household to keep at least one
firearm in their homes was passed. The law passed early in 1982.
In 1986 the rate was still down 85% compared to 1981. (1)
This statistic is essentially meaningless. If the crime rate
fluctuates, then by picking the right two years to compare, you can
get any result you want. To make a credible case, you need to provide
data for at least the ten years 77-86. I haven't seen Kleck's book,
but in his "Social Problems" paper, he uses…
tlambert | January 6, 1993brian.m.leary said:
In the five months after the passage of the mandatory gun ownership
law in Kennesaw, Georgia the residential burglary rate was down
89% from the same period the year before. Does this prove the
law worked? No - proof is difficult in these matters.
However, is it clear that the law had no effect? Hardly.
The source for this claim appears to be Kleck's paper in "Social
Problems" v35p15, where he states there were five reported residential
burglaries in the seven months after the law, while there were 45 in
the corresponding seven months of the preceding year.
As you have…
tlambert | December 15, 1992If Andy had claimed that the
Earth was flat and standard references on the subject and most other
people were wrong, it is conceivable, if unlikely, that he could be
correct. However, when he tells us that the dictionary and everyone
else is wrong about the meaning of the term "Saturday Night Special"
he cannot possibly be correct. Usage defines meaning.
Andy Freeman writes:
That's an interesting leap by Lambert. A dictionary has a definition
so he assumes that "everyone" uses it that way. The dictionary's
definition is wrong BECAUSE usage does define meaning and the usage is
"guns owned…
tlambert | December 14, 1992Andy Freeman said:
The Random House Dictionary is wrong on this one. They often lack the
technical knowledge to "define" terms and go with something that
sounds good, but is wrong or basically meaningless.
If Andy had claimed that the
Earth was flat and standard references on the subject and most other
people were wrong, it is conceivable, if unlikely, that he could be
correct. However, when he tells us that the dictionary and everyone
else is wrong about the meaning of the term "Saturday Night Special"
he cannot possibly be correct. Usage defines meaning.
That's an interesting leap by…
tlambert | December 9, 1992The percentage of at-home burglaries is
higher in the US (14%) than it is in Canada (10%). If guns account
for the difference it is because US burglars are more likely to be
armed and feel that they can take on the residents.
US data comes from the National Crime Survey 1979-87. In 14.7% of
residential burglaries there was someone at home at the time. (Cited
in "Crime and Justice: A Review of Research" v14 p56) The Canadian
figure is for Edmonton in 1987 from "Canadian Urban Victimization
Survey #9". OK, the numbers are not strictly comparable, since one is
for an Canadian urban area,…
tlambert | December 8, 1992bill nelson writes:
"Saturday Night Special" was a term dreamed up by the anti-gunners. Such
weapons have not existed for many years.
Scot Thorstad writes:
You should be ashamed Bill, You usually do excellent research.
The 1984 (latest edition) of the Random House dictionary defines
Saturday Night Special as "a cheap, small caliber handgun that is
easily obtainable" of which there are many around.
Andy Freeman said:
The Random House Dictionary is wrong on this one. They often lack the
technical knowledge to "define" terms and go with something that
sounds good, but is wrong or basically…
tlambert | December 1, 1992Frank Crary said:
[Kennesaw] was a response to Morton Grove's gun ban. Guess which "worked"
better?
If by "worked" you mean that crime rates were lower after the
relevant law than before, the answer is Morton Grove.
I'd like to see some data to back up this assertion: Specifically,
data concerning gun-related crimes in Morton Grove.
The only noticeable changes were a 45% reduction in with-gun
robberies in Morton Grove, and a 100% increase in with-gun assaults in
Kennesaw. The actual numbers were small, so this is not particularly
meaningful.
The raw data is presented as graphs showing…