4000

Revere is very exceptional. There is a profound beauty, and a deep tragedy in his post. I have nothing but deep respect for him, even though he hates my guts for my stupid posts.
What is reality? Do you know what it is?
There is ultimate truth and goodness in the universe. You can vomit and shit all you want when you read this, but it is true. You cannot kill people and get away with it. That is what is real. When innocent people were killed in Somalia, when a missile was launced for a US warship to try and kill a terrorist, and innocent blood was shed, something in the universe groaned with pain.
The evil of 4000 deaths of our brave soldiers is for what? So we can have oil? Do you want that? Is it worth it?
Soon death will come for us also. Stop this madness of blood for oil before it is too late, and nuclear winter decends upon us.

Thank you, Revere, for the sensitive words and moving video regarding the tragic loss of the 4,000th US service member.

Yes, we must end the evil madness of war, but to succeed, we must acknowledge the dismal fact that he vast majority of Americans (including academics) are concerned far more about money and their own physical security than ethics.

I believe that as public health professionals, we are obligated to publicize the facts that the war against Iraq is bringing America to financial ruin (See "The 3 Trillion Dollar War" co-authored by Joe Stiglitz, the Nobel laureate in economics) and the empirical work of Robert A. Pape at U. Chicago [funded in part by DOD] which shows that the best way to secure the Fatherland and its inhabitants is to end the occupation of foreign countries.

I'd also mention that the pursuit of empire (and Americas bankrolling of countries in which the incidence and prevalence of torture is similar to that of neocon America [these countries range from Egypt to Israel] is eroding our Constitutional rights (see Chalmers Johnson's trilogy: "Blowback," "The Sorrows of Empire," and "Nemesis,"), but again I feel that the the overwhelming majority of Americans (including the overwhelming majority of our colleagues in public health [See Elizabeth Fee's comparison in the AJPH of the Public Health Communities shameless opportunism during the Red Scare and now during the so-called global war against terrorism] are too busy for inconvenient issues like torture and slaughter if they are committed by the U.S. or its guided democracies.

I have wasted over a decade trying to appeal to the "better Angels of Americans' nature," but, found that the vast majority of Americans could care less about the deaths of civilians, even the slaughter of infants (as long as it's handled with adequate public relations finess). In the words of a career FDA employee with a Harvard degree, Well, hell we need their f*ing oil.

So "I ain't marching any more with appeals to decency. Instead I tell audiences that they stand to loose the financial value their precious $ and increase their vulnerability to counter-terror -- claims strongly supported by the rigorous studies cited above.

Since I hold your judgement in high regard, Revere, please comment on this and put it on the Effect Size blog if you feel it has sufficient merit.

p.s. If memory serves, Iraq and Afghanistan occupy the 3rd and 2nd highet under 5 mortality rate in the world -- after over 5 years of American "liberation and "democracy" and after American policy demolished 30 years of progress in Iraq by returning its social indicators from the level of Portugal to that of sub-Saharan Africa.

Finally, it seems that even the "Lancet" and the "NEJM" ain't marching any more either. One is led to the dismal conclusion that M.D.s and Ph.D.s are too busy gorging at the Federal trough to care or are to scared to jeopardize their substantial portion of the gravy train.

Maybe our colleagues will remember why they became doctors once the dollar is devalued, even TIAA-CREF pensions take a huge hit and they find they can barely afford breakfast in Europe unless they are on the Federal or foundation expense accounts.

Revere, again, I commend you for observing the 4,000th US death, but at present Im inside the Beltway and can tell you that the story of this milestone ran on page 9 of the Washington Post. Wonder if the story achieved more or less prominence in the Christian (sic) Science Monitor or the Boston Globe

Tom: Thanks. If you check this link you will see lots of other stuff from here.

I am powerfully affected by music, so here's another one, "for the road":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9coPzDx6tA

More riders onboard the gravy train:
The Army just unveiled a $4 million program to investigate everything from "spiritual ministry, transcendental meditation, [and] yoga" to "bioenergies such as Qi gong, Reiki, [and] distant healing" to mend the psyches of wounded troops.
http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/03/army-bioenergy.html

(Via BoingBoing)

Whoa! This post has been up for over 12 hours and no realpolitik apologia for the slaughter from MRK. Isn't that one of the signs of the Apocalypse?

slovenia: LOL. Could be. But I think it's coming. For MRK this does not depend on higher cerebral function. It's a reflex through the brainstem or maybe even just the spinal cord. Stimulus - response.

reveres: I read about artist Jane Hammond's piece "Fallen" in April's "Art in America" magazine. She hasn't done political pieces in the past, but felt led to do this one after a walk in the woods.

Each leaf represents one of the now 4000+ fallen vets. Each leaf is a photocopy, front and back, of an unique leaf she has collected from many different trees in varied locations. Take a minute to read the article I have linked, or look for April's Art in America.

http://www.janehammondartist.com/text/news.html

Also, any US citizen who missed "Bush's War" that aired on PBS the last two nights owes it to themselves to go online to see it. Lots of interviews with many of the key players in our country's Great War on Terror. It gives a clear overview of how we got to those 4000+ leaves. Made me "proud" to be an American.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/bushswar/?campaign=pbshomefeatu…

No, I was just waiting for the left wingers to get it all in before I commented. Please...Do continue with the mutual abuse session.

Nope, I am busy watching the battle for S. Iraq... The Iraqi government is in full contact sport with Muqtadr Al-Sadr. They are running full blown gunship missions against them. The General in charge has given them three days to put down their weapons, else it will go rough on them. The Brits have control of the airbases and are not under fire at this time. But they will order in air strikes on the request of the Iraqi government... You know, the one that was elected. The one we helped to form. The one thats calling their own shots right now and in this particular case removing the armed militias.....Hmmm.. but please do get back to the rubdown...

Yeah MRK, we ARE free to continue our "rubdown", just as you are free to continue kissing GWB's oily ass. There. Go nuts. We won't stop you. *covers eyes*

Well here we go... We lost 4000 in 5 years now, but we lost 42,000 and change last year on the highways and we all know that is pure combat. We also put our names on a piece of paper to do it, willingly. I dont discount any military persons life having seen quite a few ended right in front of me. By all accounts I should have not made it more than once, but I did to the chagrin of all the lefties here.

Here is the disconnect and it will be short. Iraq is producing very little oil for the world markets. They use quite a bit of it themselves. So is oil the problem or is it to sandwich Iran in and prevent them from taking an exploratory ride into their neighbors yards. I dont know and I really dont care. Saddam was a threat... he is gone. Until the Iraqi's completely take over, we have to be there. Our missions are dropping to less and less each month. We have pulled back on the surge people but now are in a holding pattern until fall when they can start moving around again. The Iraqis are taking on Al-Sadr and winning. There will always be some sort of factional fighting but the police should be able to put it down.

I pray for the living and mourn the dead soldiers as I do the 463,000 they have now identified as human remains. Whole families were killed under Saddam. We told the people to rise up in Desert Storm and then we didnt even give them a rifle with which to shoot? Why? Political correctness got into the way...again. In fact it was the lefties of France and Germany that pretty much demanded it. The Kuwaitis wanted us to take Baghdad off the map. We didnt...See what happens when you dont finish a war?

4000...yep, 4000. There will be more. Casey Sheehan died a few years back but the lefty media forgot to mention that he had re-upped for the second time to go back. His mom took it badly as did his dad. But then the lefties went in and tried to use her like an old whore. It got so bad that Daddy divorced her saying that he didnt want his sons memory tarnished.

Was this trip and war necessary? I honestly cannot say. I can say that a lot of people died. Some will say for nothing, some will say for something. Many just dont care and want our guys back home no matter what. In under 40 years there are going to be 9.5 billion people on a planet that might be able to support 1/2 of that. Something is going to give and he who is sitting on the resources, or controlling them will get to make the rules. These rants about war are just fine and I dont disagree with them. War is a nasty little business and I dont recall meeting but three lefties in the military in almost 15 years. They were doing their duty for college, nothing more, nothing less. I even asked them if they did it for their country and one just bluntly said no. He was in it for the educational benefits. Honesty....

History is going to judge us all hard on Iraq. France for selling them equipment to make weapons, and outright sales of weapons illegally. They did it for the 35 dollar a barrel oil. The Germans to a lesser degree. We will have to take a hit because there were no FOUND WMD's, even though the UN said they were there, but in lesser quantity than we thought. The Iraqi people too have to bear some responsibility because they didnt raise up and kill the bastard on his own. The DGAC was openly trying to circumvent our efforts to find out correct info as well and then the Germans lectured Colin Powell.

But we know what the effects were of getting it wrong. But what did we get right? They vote now, they are an elected government. They dont live in fear of anyone now but the militias and they should be gone pretty quick. We dont have to worry about it becoming an Al Qaeda campground and each day their lot is improving as it did in Japan post WWII. Germany as well. Saddam no longer uses water as a weapon against his own people either. So, its not perfect but it is getting there. Perhaps we leave next year, or the year after or maybe not. Our presence wont be needed and we will be getting ready for the next one... And there will be a next one.

4000.... To be honest with you the original estimates were that we were going to suffer 30,000 casualties overall. We got off cheap for five years and it could have been a lot more.

It was reported on the news today that Muqtadr Al-Sadr has spent a considerable amount of time in Iran lately. He just returned. Interesting? ...

Islamic militants and below primitive minds want to take the world back a few centuries. That's you and me folks. Sorry, I'm not going there.

Instead of a rant against the war, perhaps a solemn 'Thank You' for protecting me and my family against crazy idiots who want to "rule the world".

Okay, okay, I'll do it.

Lea--Someone's protecting us from Cheney and the neo-cons? Point me at 'em and I'll start thanking.

Randy
An entertaining revision of history, as usual. I particularly enjoyed the role of Germany in the story. Remind me when did the UN say Iraq had WMDs? As memory serves the IAEA were saying nothing found but please give us a chance to finish the job before you go and raze the place.
P.S. Your take on what is going on in Basra needs a little work, it is a lot more complicated than that.
Try http://www.historiae.org/sawlah.asp
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2008/03/who-are-the-…
or even the MSM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7314650.stm

Won't go into detail over Cheney and the neo-cons slovenia.

Let's just say I'm not a fan of the current government either however, and this is difficult to understand, I am a fan of the military.
They really are two different entities.

Lea--With the one entity--the military--controlled by the other--Cheney and the neo-cons--to further the latters purposes, which are to "rule the world", or at the least, control the world's resources, which is basically the same thing. Cheney's law is to be feared much more than sharia law. Their potential impacts on the world are incomparable.

Yes, Lea, I'm an Army brat and one hell of a respecter of their service. So much so that sending them into an illegal and unecessary war constitutes a war crime.

Usually don't have the time to visit this blog however, did visit it today, glad I did!
Take a 16 minute break and have a look.
Play the Live Leak version of Fitna video and . . . . . .

http://www.windsofchange.net/

March 27, 2008
If Network Solutions Won't Help Host This...

Live Leak version of Fitna

Lea, this is today's counterpart to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. It is the same kind of vile, racist, anti-Semitic tripe that resulted in pogroms and the Holocaust. It would be just as easy to assemble something from The Book of Revelations or similar crapola from any other religion. I have no interest in fictions like the Koran or the Bible because they are used to incite hatred just as this steaming pile of shit video is. I'm surprised you fell for this despicable garbage.

Lea
I followed the link but that thing was appalling. It was a crass attempt to whip up racial hatred and served absolutely no useful purpose. I could not watch it all but it is one of the few times I have thought censorship might have a useful purpose.

"If you are incapable of watching such a short film carefully all the way to the end, perhaps you should spare us your interpretation of it (if I can charitably call your reaction an "interpretation").
You need to go back to the website JJackson, people are talking to you.

revere: you say you have friends in Europe, do you have any in the Nederland's? I've been watching this stuff as closely as possible because the government there is starting to run on thin ice. I've met, in person, a member of the government and a police officer there, so I do have some working knowledge.

I'm not trying to provoke you, please don't take it that way.
There are just far more angles and views to take into consideration when a subject comes up. I chose to put this video up because it shows just exactly why we have lost 4,000 brave military personnel.

Go to this site: http://www.radionetherlands.nl/currentaffairs/region/netherlands/080327…

Near the bottom it has a link for more stories related to this subject. It says: More - Geert Wilders: riding the hype.

Take some time to get to know what the Nederland's is doing to preserve their cultural heritage and not be run over by the fastest growing religion on this blue marble.

Tolerance is one thing honey, ignorance is another.
Geert is challenging the system, perhaps not in the way you or others would like it, but he's drawing attention to a very real problem.

JJ-Where have you been? Missed your barrages.

Here are the Canucks... .
http://www.ciss.ca/Comment_MIA.pdf

And another....
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=F715A709-2614-4EA5-…

Reveres hated Fox News
http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Iraq_WMD_Declassified.pdf

Reveres not so hated Reuters
http://uk.reuters.com/article/basicIndustries/idUKL0379806420070103

How about the WSJ?
http://opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110003053

And the Washington Post.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/27/AR20051…

Nothing revisionist about it JJ. They were in it up to their necks and if it had been me I would have just declared war on Iraq rather than these pissant resolutions of use of force we have been in since Korea. But thats just me. The were harboring agents of Al Qaeda, they were actively trying to achieve control of the Middle East. At least the US went in on wrong information. The Brits went in on what two centuries ago as Lea said.

Face it. They all hate us but not individually. 4000. Fathers are having their sons in Iraq reciting their reenlistment oaths. It might be that they are doing that because they believe in what we are doing. Its not perfect JJ by any stretch but all the appeasers, and the anti war types have always ended up getting us into a bigger conflict later. God love them but that is the truth of it. If the US had backed the UK in 1937 WWII for one front might not have happened. How about enforcing the Treaty of Versailles with the Germans? That was back when the UK had two camps like we have now. We dont have any major armies facing us for a change other than the Chinese, but we do have terrorists. I have seen the two Tennessee girls who were shredded by the bombings of the double deckers in London. 4000....How about those guys in the WTC's? Are we hitting the right countries? I dont know but its a start. I really dont care if we incite the Muslims and their recruiting action, it just speeds up the inevitable as far as I am concerned. They have consistently and constantly for the last near 40 years attacked our people and assets and well, it might just get down to killing them all. Dont want too, have friends there that are Muslims but even they acknowledge to me that they are screwing with the wrong pair of beasts in this world. If we ever get really wound up the Russians, Chinese or the US would wade in there and start toasting people over a 50 megaton flame.

You know, they could always back off too JJ. We were more than provoked in the last ten years leading up to 9/11. We have seen a lot fewer attacks except against the people who are more prepared for it... the military. They get paid to do that, civilians arent.

Round two begins after the election....

JJ-One other thing. There has never been a US Supreme Court ruling on this kind of matter and the jurisdiction of the military over contractors. UCMJ application is a very slippery slope and the last challenge was apparently made in 1970 and the military lost.

Seems that if the jurisdiction over the war zone is that of the military they MIGHT have some ability to prosecute under the UCMJ, but as of late that hasnt held at all. In fact, thrown out and people allowed to go scott free. Wrong? Sure. But its the difference between subjection of ones self to the UCMJ by signature, and one from just being along for the ride, say a Blackwater employee. Say you are married to a military member...They signed up, you didnt. It isnt service related if a spouse kills a military member, but it is if the member kills his spouse on base.

It is interesting though about what might happen in Basra and Al-Sadr had better decide what he is going to do because the tolerance level of the government, the Brits whose sector it is and the US who really holds all the cards is very limited. They start the violence again and they wont pull off this time about women and children. They will conduct full out air missions and that equates to a lot of unnecessary dead. Better to put the rifles down, get elected and effect change in the government rather than trying to overthrow it.

http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/ksil374.pdf

JJackson: "Lea... I could not watch it all but it is
one of the few times I have thought censorship might
have a useful purpose..."

Howdy,

A few thoughts on censorship... Ten years ago, I was
happily living in a Federation-style home in an inner
city niteclub district in the state of Perth, Western
Australia. I was 29 and feelin' the wavefront to Bob
Dylan's "a-blowin' wind" -- people were dying in Asia
from a strange new cross-species virus, A/H5N1.

The WA gov of the day were horrifically homophobic --
using the local television media to promulgate
anti-gay bigotry... Using letter writing, I contacted
a number of politicians and expressed my opinions that
they were behaving in a neo-nazi manner by declaring
queer GenX folk as "subhuman" and "unworthy" of legal
equality.

Shortly after, the SS troops kicked-in my front door
and proceeded to interrogate me like some "suspected
terrorist": A. Kennedy and Ernst De Jong are the two
psychiatrists who recorded the events of my queerbash
arrest on the afternoon of the 31/12/1997 at the 'SS'
hands of the WA police...

"15.30 Phonecall from East Perth Lockup. Requesting
assessment on Jon. Arrested last night because of a
ruckus he was having with neighbours [an outright lie
and fictional fabrication]. Police feel he is unwell
and in need of psych assessment, cannot elaborate more
than 'he is behaving strangely.' Had hoped the Judge
may commit Jon to Graylands for treatment, is now on
bail and can go home [but is being held in a smallroom
against his will by sociopathic homophobic WA
police]...

16.30 Phonecall from police... Requesting assessment
at central police station as very concerned on his
current state...

Visit to Central Police Station: The constable we
spoke to was unable to give...information. Police
felt Jon was unwell without being able to give details
of their concern. However, we were shown a letter Jon
had typed which was full of muddled content. Police
were unhappy with the magistrate's decision to give
Jon bail..."

Shortly following this incident, I was charged with a
number of false charges -- this caused me have a mini
breakdown. This vile traumatic neo-nazi incident was
misdiagnosed by equally homophobic smalltown medicos
-- responsibility = "drug-induced delusions" (how can
a person have chemical delusions when blood tests are
negative for drugs)!?!

Around this time, Matthew Shepard was murdered in a
most horrific manner. Against the wishes of friends
and family, I erected a gigantic banner on the street
front side of my home -- "Matthew Shepard Murdered By
Homophobia"!

Judy Shepard (mother of Matthew) comments on the
now-infamous remarks made by Oklahoma state Rep. Sally
Kern available to hear @
http://www.victoryfund.org/files/listening.html

"[As] despicable as Sally Kerns ideas are, she is of
course free to shout them from the rooftops. One of
the oddest responses of people who agree with her has
been that we are trying to restrict her freedom of
speech. In reality, the Victory Fund gave her a
megaphone. If shes that proud of her speech, she must
be thrilled that more than 1 million people have
listened to it.

No, the question isnt whether she has a right to spew
hateful rhetoric. The question is whether she ought
to...

I dont know why Sally Kern is proud of comparing gay
people to cancer or terrorism, but count me as someone
whos listening now to people like her. She may be
free to say people like my son are a threat to
America, but when she does she puts other mothers
sons in danger. I pray she doesnt say it anymore."

Lea
You have a valid point about my making assumptions about the rest of the film based on first half so I have gone back and re-watched all of it. The rest was exactly what I expected. This is a very simplistic bit of propaganda, good production values, but the message is racist, inflammatory and serves no purpose except to pour fuel onto a fire that is already burning nicely. Yes the Koran and the Bible have archaic and hateful sections; yes there are idiots of all religious/political/ideological stripes who will evangelise by force if their message can not win on its own merits. We are exporting our ideology/value-systems into areas of the world that to not want them in the name of Democracy & Freedom and creating humanitarian disasters as we go. The excess civilian death toll, and attendant misery, in all the countries that are now suffering as a result of 9/11 and the GWOT response to it is many orders of magnitude greater than 9/11 and Western military losses, and hardly any of them had any interest in fighting us. Well at least not before; now of course the number of Muslims that hate us and everything we stand for is far greater and the minor terrorist threat posed by Muslim extremists is larger but not in anyway existential or a valid justification for the wars we are initiating.

Jon:
I am sorry that you have learnt this lesson the hard way. The Romans were in dread of tyranny; they knew the real danger to the people is from the state. Bin Laden and his ilk will only directly effect a very few people you are much more likely to get trampled in the paranoia he engenders. On censorship; I will defend Wilders right to spout biased filth but if he is ever in a war look for me in the opposing army.

Randy I have missed our little battles, perhaps I should post more and lurk less.

I am not sure how Blackwater and the UCMJ got into this but since you brought it up
I was interested in how armed US citizens under contract to the DoS mangaged to fall out side of all legal authorities (that is they were not subject to Iraqi law, UCMJ or US civil law) so I posted this in a Blackwater fallout thread on another site

What I was trying to argue was that given the situation on the ground it is inevitable that Blackwater et.al would end up in an armed engagement at some time at which point they should have some kind of binding rules of engagement/ terms and conditions with their employers in this case the DoS. If they operate beyond those rules then there should be a defined procedure and sanctions. If as seems to be the case they do not have a clearly defined operating environment then either it is because the DoS wanted it that way or they were just negligent in failing to anticipate the consequences of putting an armed force into that breach. Neither of the above options are acceptable on the part of the DoS.

There was a flaw in my deductive reasoning in that I had omitted to fully consider all of the implicit assumptions as this excellent post shows

I am a special agent with the Diplomatic Security Service (DSS), which for those that don't know, is the law enforcement and security arm of the Department of State DSS

My previous assignment was in the Regional Security Office, U.S. Embassy Baghdad.

DSS has approximately 1200 special agents worldwide. We are in every embassy and most consulates, plus many domestic assignments. As with the rest of the civilian USG, we were caught unprepared for operations in a war zone. In a normal country, the embassy would have long since been closed. DSS and DoS are not designed to function in a combat zone, although we are learning. To state the obvious, DSS is trying to conduct civilian security operations in a war zone.

There are three options for DSS to conduct our mission:

1. Ask the military for support. Is there a brigade plus available, plus a helicopter squadron? RSO Baghdad has over 4000 people in Iraq. This includes Blackwater, Triple Canopy, some DynCorp, plus DoS employees. There are some military elements working with the RSO already.

2. Direct hire to replace the contractors. Most of us on the ground would love this, please talk to your congressman to increase our budget so we can hire an additional 2000 - 3000 people, plus buy helicopters. We are happy to MAYBE get an additional 200 agents in FY08.

3. Use contractors to fill the "temporary" void. The option we took.

Remember, in 2003, almost everyone thought we'd be done by now. DoS went the short term answer and now we are stuck with it for the time being.

As far as oversight, DSS agents are with most of the BW details. I won't give away our SOPs, but we cover as much as possible with the limited special agent staff.

DSS special agents also investigate all shootings. There will be a full report on this one. For those that mentioned DoD investigating, I am sure RSO Baghdad will work with them if necessary. For the most part, all the federal LEOs worked well together there.

Concerning prosecution, once again, talk to your congressman. DSS realized quick that there was no reliable mechanism for prosecuting non-DoD civilians. Let me explain. In a normal country, a non-DoD civilian accused of commiting a crime would be turned over to the host country. The embassy would do all it could to ensure a safe and fair trial. Decisions have been made not to turn Americans over to the Iraqis, for now. There also isn't a civilian version of the Military Extra-Judicial Act (MEJA) When the Christmas shooting happened, there were many "pundits" wanting the accused brought to trial in the U.S. DoJ and others came in and took the case from DSS. But nine months later, they too have realized there isn't a mechanism for prosecuting non-DoD civilians. I personally told several Congressional staffs and high level DoD and DoS visitors that a civilian "MEJA" was needed. Ask your congressman to work on this.

I know my comments have a cynical/snide tone, but too many people aren't thinking on this one, their passion against contractors is blinding them. Am I a contractor apologist? Hell no, it was a huge mistake to give all the contrators the latitude the USG did. However, maybe someone can correct me, but I don't believe any other federal agency (including military) sends agents with their PSDs? DSS probably has more direct contact with their contractors then any other agency. Some may say that if we have so much contact, then why do we seem to have more incidents. The unwritten answer and very seldom mentioned, is that DSS is not willing to take casualties. We've lost 2 agents and 20+ "contractors" in Iraq. While that pales to the military casualties, remember, we are a civilain law enforcement agency. DSS is not willing to lose a convoy if there is anything we can do to prevent it. Maybe our close contacts allows us to see the "contractors" as Americans, not just rented help.

One last thing, none of us know what happened in this incident. There is an ongoing investigation that will get to the bottom of it.

(the whole thread pages and pages of it can be found here http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/showthread.php?t=3978&highlight=bla… )

That was then and this jurisdictional loophole is now being addressed.

This link is to a .pdf of Sec. of Defence Gates Mar 10 2008 memo on UCMJ and civilian contractors. http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/files/gates-ucmj.pdf

The Col. Jacobson paper you linked to may be interesting but it is only his academic paper and not in anyway a statement of policy.

Revere:
Apologies for thread hijack.

Randy,all those links are meant to prove Sadam had WMDs?
I looked at some inc. the FOX news one (picked because I thought them most likely to air the more controversial claims) I am very glad I did it was hilarious. Negroponte in mid 2006 was giving as WMD evidence 500 shells with traces of chemicals that were degraded chemical agents (no one disputes he had chemical agents at one point). It then goes on to "chemical munitions are assessed to still exist" (based on Negroponte's ouija board?) and having 'assessed' these chemical weapons into existence the rest of the letter then discusses the likely types, uses and location of these weapons. A wonderful slight of hand that would easily fool any half-asleep 3 year old.

JJ-I will put it like this... Do you think the Kurds doubt that they had chemical weapons. Sorry brother but its a big goddamn place. Look at how many people we had looking for Saddam and how long it took to get him.

There was way too much activity crossing the border into Syria towards the end of the war and respectfully I agree, you could be right. But a lot of the stuff that our friends the Syrians turned up with was sudden, without precedent, and just a few years later they get caught fitting the shit to missiles aimed at Israel. So the Syrians too were caught in oil for food. It was more like oil for ammo........

Now granted there may or may not have been WMD's when they got there but it completely escapes the left here that WMD's were a start only with Saddam. How about being a total murdering Stalin and genocidal Hitler type? What? Do you suggest that we just continued to leave it status quo? Once we got in and found that there were no WMD's but the equipment to make them was there, did you want to give it back?

I am confursed constantly by the assertion that going in was wrong. We fucked up in Desert Storm and didnt take the bastard out. The Teflon Don of the Middle East survived another one. This one he tossed two tens in against a 21 and lost. What do you think they should do with Chemical Ali? You know he is working the appeals process... kind of like they are wont to do. Please, send money to help in his defense because well they just want to make sure justice is done.

So flipping out about WMD's really doesnt bother me. I was dissapointed they didnt find anything but airplanes fitted for the airborne dispersal, clear proof that the 9/11 jackers had been there, and totally saddened by the numbers of people they keep digging up the remains too. How anyone can talk about WMD's when a prick like that left to his own devices would have just continued to smoke people is beyond me.

Hiya Jonny!

JJ-The last people I would want handling anything but passports/visas and anything leading beyond diplomatic security is the DSS. Its another agency that is overstepping its bounds not unlike the DEA, FBI and quite a few others.

The reason that the Blackwater people were whisked away is a good example. They can have warrants issued for them that will never be honored unless they set foot in the wrong country. Were they cowboys? Probably, but I sure dont want the DSS involved in policing of their actions. They are contracted security details that have to get downright nasty. The DynCorp people lead all the way back to the 70's. Blackwater? Soldier of Fortune....But they are paid to do a job and someone got a little jiggy in a situation. Right or wrong, they'll never do a day.

UCMJ on civilians is very, very frowned upon and it goes to Posse Comitatus in this country. Coup's and other fun and games could easily run just under that radar. Civilian control of the military, civilian control of the courts. The suggestion that DSS needs choppers really means gunships. Fair trials mean in the view of whom? Remember the Tripoli 6?

Civilian MEJA? Come on. Whats next, rules of engagement for security details? Sure as Hell guarantees goats for the slaughter if a President or SoS is in town somewhere and they get popped. Do we even need any of this? No, because the people that contracted them didnt do it right. Hows this to get the point across, "cancellation notice?" Contract termination is very easy in the USGovt. Remember what happened in Australia with the security cordon penetration... What if they had capped those guys. To me it would have been justified and the courts have held that they were in violation of the law. It creates a situation that ensures a diplomatic situation later.

The area where the shootings happened were hot, very hot and anyone who tells you different are liars. The guys from my former unit were told NOT to enter that area under any circumstances. I got an email the day it happened and said that people got killed that MIGHT not have been active combatants but the investigations couldnt be carried out because the area was hot. HOT? Well its all about the MSM's opinion of the day and not in the law or truth. If someone stands in a window with an RPG, do you wait for them to fire it or do you shoot first?

Fact is, that unless there is a reason and a big one to govern yet another branch of our government none of this is needed. Illegal killing? I dont know, nor do I care unless it becomes the norm rather than the exception.

Put something like this into place and DSS is going to really need those new guys and soon. ROE will dictate what they can carry, what they can do and when they dont do it right someone(s) in the diplomatic service are going to find themselves riding home with a flag on their coffins. Even Congress isnt that stupid. They had a working government in country at Xmas, let them issue a warrant.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080408124437.k89rrp7e&show_arti…

Well its no longer a rant any longer. Iran is putting an additional 3000 centrifuges that are twice as capable as the first ones to produce fissionable materials. Even the IAEA said that they are violating all of the resolutions. The Bush Doctrine of hit first, ask questions later may come into play by November. One thing is sure, this just wratcheted things up good and hard.

Their missiles can hit Moscow, Beijing, and it brings most of Eastern Europe under the threat canopy.

I will only say that the clock has started to tick towards another confrontation. We are stretched way too thin to do Iran but now with half of NATO waiting for them to test a bomb, we might get a lot more help and that includes the Ruskies and Chinese.