Game Day

Mrs. R. and I are getting ready for a "game day" dinner (Sloppy Joes and a white bean dip, beer/wine, left over Halloween candy) in front of the TV to watch returns. We'll probably flip around but mainly stay at MSNBC to hear Rachel Maddow's take. As much as I detest Chris Matthews's uninformed superficiality, his palpable pleasure and delight at American politics is fun to watch.

The whole world is watching this election. But in our house it will just be the two of us humans plus Rosie the dog. Which is fine by me.

If you are keeping track via the internet outside the US, here's a place to keep current:

TPM Election Night 2008 Scoreboard

Here's a YouTube intro. to the map:

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By Charlie B. (not verified) on 04 Nov 2008 #permalink

The motherfuckers aboard the "Straight-jacket Express" have lost Pennsylvania. They collectively trumpeted that state as "Win or Die!" They lost. That was their single remaining, wet-dream, last ditch stand. It looks, now, like Ohio will also fall for Obama; and Iowa is a given. McCain could not afford to lose a single red state. He's going to lose more than a few. It's over. The long "National Nightmare" is at an end.

(My apologies to Mrs. R.)

Make that "Straitjacket Express." Sorry. Must be the euphoria.

I will give this to McCain: he was very graceful, in defeat. Even when the crowd was not.

Peace, calm, tranquility. . . No red states, no blue, JUST the United States. . . How wonderful ! ! !

.

I think there is a palpable, global, sigh of relief at the success of Obama. There is certainly clear support here in Australia, and recognition that USA has gone from electing Bush for two terms, to a 180 degree turnaround. Now the work begins, and I hope the rebuilding of the CDC is on somebody's agenda in his new government.

Congratualtions America!

What an Obama Presidency means to you. Subject: Economy
2.5 trillion dollars has been pumped into the economy in the last 6 months. If it didnt turn around after that, then it was doomed to fail. It will turn very quickly now and they may vote yet even more money for the bailouts. But not to the downside initially, just the opposite. Free money and the printing presses are going to swing wide open at the Treasury. Nice for now, bad and very bad later and it might lead to our undoing as a country. Maybe that secession thing might not be such a bad idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI

WE got into this mess because the US was packaging debt and selling it. So was the EU where it has been done for years and well prior to our debacle. So expect a two year run, and do buy into the markets as they will become well oversold by 18 months. Sell at that time or face another shot in the head as bad if not worse than we have seen. At about the two year mark it will be time to pay the bills. This will mean the biggest tax increase in our history. High interest rates will be the approach to this. Taxes and high interest rates are guaranteed economy killers and we will get both.
Short term? All of the markets will be going ape in under four months to the upside. It will be a meteoric rise in fact. You will see an immediate moratorium on mortgage foreclosures for people acting in good faith. Well, they were dumb enough to sign the paper, smart enough to default, and even smarter theyll use this as time to get the sellable appliances out of the house then default completely. Second mortgage crisis in six or eight months. What about their credit card debt? WE going to bail them out on that too?

The markets lost 200 plus this morning on the Obama win. I guess that no one is buying the nanny government. He plans to bail out local and state governments, businesses, banks, and the only risk is to you and me. The risk is that a second event will happen on the markets to send them south and then who bails out the government? Sorry, but we are all tapped out now.

Obama may set his own future up as well. He is a throwaway President and if the Rezko investigation continues it will be interesting to see if he can weather it. Good economy then he will be around for a second shot. Else, the Dems will use him as a goat and impeach him themselves. For the good of the country and it puts Hillary back into the driver seat for 2013.

He is also going to gut the military to pay for his spending projects.More like giveaway programs. He will suppress the top with taxes and just give them to the poor who were poor when he was a kid, will be poor during his presidency, and will be poor after he leaves office. The difference? He will ensure that they never get out of their endless cycle. Indeed, the reason we are losing jobs in the US is because we are no longer cost competitive against any other emerging nation and its because we provide too much to the poor. Healthcare is one of them. He thinks its a right as long as someone else has to pay for it.

Then there are the heavy industries. His programs of everyone running around in electric cars, doubling the fuel standards in six years and cutting emissions is NOT something Detroit has the money for. All R&D was cut in early 08. It would take 15 to 20 years to double the standards and even with all of the computer controls that there are, it still aint possible. Its called volumetric efficiency. Lets add in the fact that the power grid couldnt begin to handle all the rectifiers that would be plugged in every night, so who is going to pay for that? You and me, thats who. Besides, its not the US that is polluting the air its Asia.

We will cause yet another cost of doing business by doing regulations increase .And more jobs will be offshore as fast as they can pack. Cap and Trade for Coal is a joke. He will bankrupt them (Coal companies and power plants)? Not a chance if you want the lights on. That is to say that the power grid in the NE is near snap point now. 25 plants were slated to be built in the next 10 years. They are on hold as of 10 p.m. CDT last night and energy demands are increasing by about 3% a year, with only lip service being paid to fixing the problem. Well, it wont be rising as much as Obama will be running the industries offshore so the power requirements will be going down for a bit. He will tout solar, wind and excuse me but both are very unstable as sources. 1900 acres for 70,000 people in a city in solar. That only comes out to 8.1 million acres for the needs of the US. Sounds like an ecological issue in its own right.
But its economics.The bottom line to most of this is that we have become the bank for every problem out there now. You want a bailout, you get it. The taxpayer gets the bills. The freight train has pulled out of the station but the bridge is out and we all know it. How long the track is before we hit it is the question. Congress has 12 trillion in debt on the books. The real number is nearly 50 trillion with some 40 trillion of it in unfunded mandates for Medicare, Social Security etc. The prescription drug benefit is almost 1 trillion all by itself. That by the way comes out to almost 500,000.00 per paying American. In just 9 years, our kids will inherit that debt plus the ongoing costs of retirees upkeep in the Social Security system/Medicare. They are going to have to take care of 12 new mouths, plus any new ones that Obama thinks we are going to have to pay for. You going to tax the retirees income? Revere asserted that we can all pay more taxes.Anyone want to back him up on that one now? The story was written in the springtime when it was apparent that the economy had stalled, economic stimulus package. They knew then what was going on. They also knew two years ago that Fannie and Freddie were out of control.
A limited government is one that stands back and leaves the economy alone. This is not what is going to happen in this Administration and indeed by the time year three rolls around, its going to be the economy stupid. They will regulate, prevent, and basically ensure that the economy goes straight on its ass. In fact, I doubt we will have one. DO catch the wave thats coming but watch when the water starts to recede suddenly at the beach. The tsunami that will come after this is going to be incredible.
I took everyone off of their 100% healthcare this morning, moved them all to part time status and let them know that their jobs were in total jeopardy. Its not a retaliatory move for the election. Its a corporate move and we will see a good run for about the 18 months and then kerplop. I wanted everyone to have the opportunity to move on now while the getting is good. This drop to part time status for even the full timers didnt go over very well but its economics. It will ensure that they do go of their own accord rather than me having to terminate them. Why? Well its economics I have to pay unemployment if I terminate them. Another nanny government idea.

Obama could move to the center, but I doubt it. Clintons first big thing in his election wasnt the big campaign issue the economy. It was to put gays into the military. Obamas will be to socialize everything and the backlash will be incredible. We will be down South with all of our guns and religion and hoping that the slight majority starts to slip in his presidency and conservatives move back into the Congress. Eco-nutz will try to stop offshore drilling and I dont think that even Pelosi is dumb enough to try that now as this was the single factor that started the economy into a tailspin. There was either 80 bucks of goodwill in the barrel of oil economy, or there was 80 bucks of ability to payDepends on how you look at it. 60 or so a barrel is supportable but I doubt that there is 80 bucks out there right now of additional ability to pay. This includes the corporations and companies and small businesses. Big Brother? Everyone will be under the governments finger.

Obama will go after the oil companies for selling us oil at such high profits, but not Bill Gates for selling us crappy software and making four times as much as the oil companies do in a year. They will go for the windfall profits taxes again and they will simply pass it along to us and not call it a tax increase on the middle class. They will raise the taxes on gasoline again to create a new slush fund to suck money out of and to reduce consumption Another thing to ensure we are not going to have a economy after this. Carter did it and the unemployment a year later was 8% and then went on to arguably 14%. So, lets hope that he surprises me and everyone else who didnt vote for him. He might be swayed but he thinks he is an FDR/Clinton and we only have to fear, fear itself? Not quite. I fear we elected the worst candidate out there, our retirees are going to have to go back to work in a new socialist order. Communism would be their next step along with a world government and new world order as all of the economies collapse in the next turn of events.

We will have a nice run for that 18 months and then the interest rates will go up like a rocket. Keep it in mind. I have seen this crap before and its history repeating itself. More later on this and other things and what Obama means to you and me.

Do print this out each time I post in the next few days...lets see where we are in November of next year.

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 05 Nov 2008 #permalink

MRK said " The risk is that a second event will happen on the markets to send them south and then who bails out the govt?"

The IMF if you are the Ukraine,or Bulgaria or Hungary and rumor has it that Greece is in trouble too. It has already started and this was before the election.

By christine (not verified) on 05 Nov 2008 #permalink

Randy Kruger: "[Lets] see where we are in November of next year..."

Great to see you back EM posting, Randy. Gosh, have you checked out the solar energy community schemes in Western Australia -- not as bad as you make out!?! I'd really like to see our boo hiss "socialist" AmericanOz governments deciding to allow us regular folk timely access to prepandemic H5N1 vaccines by the latest November 2009. That 32 year old Indonesian butcher guy who died on Monday of suspected H5N1 (you've no doubt read the ProMed email) is a bit of a worry -- heavy duty fever on Thursday, hospitalized Sunday, dead Monday!?! And if it were H5N1, he'd have been working whilst infected -- but showing no or only slight symptoms -- for many days with exactly how many Javanese punters?

By Jonathon Singleton (not verified) on 05 Nov 2008 #permalink

.
MRK:2.5 trillion dollars has been pumped into the economy in the last 6 months

GilAZ: By the "Bushies" in order to keep the economy afloat, so McCain could get elected. . . Too little too late

*****

MRK: WE got into this mess because the US was packaging debt and selling it.

GilAZ: We got into this mess because of lack of regulations on the amount of leverage that was used, the way these loans were able to be "packaged" allowing their true (lack of) value being allowed to be determined.

*****

MRK: The markets lost 200 plus this morning on the Obama win.

GilAZ: The Dow went up 300 yesterday on anticipation that Obama would be elected. . . Down already recovered 100 of it. . .

*****

MRK: Obama may set his own future up as well.

GilAZ: Lets HOPE he does. Hope being the word. How many were in Grant Park vs the angry few whining at the Biltmore??? Just because YOU wanted 4 more years of the McSame, the MAJORITY of this country didn't.

*****

MRK: He is also going to gut the military to pay for his spending projects�

GilAZ: He is going to bring the troops home from Viet Nam and with them will come the 10 Billion a month that is being pissed away there. Oh, I meant Iraq. . . Wrong quagmire, right solution.

*****

MRK: His programs of everyone running around in electric cars, doubling the fuel standards in six years and cutting emissions is NOT something Detroit has the money for.

GilAZ: At least he going to do SOMETHING, other than continue the failed energy policies that has Hummers and Pick-ups lining the pockets of the Bushie's Oil buddies. Bitch about the expense of hardening the grid, even though it helps the infrastructure on SO many levels AND deny that we are causing any pollution. . . Geez.

*****

MRK: We will cause yet another cost of doing business by doing regulations increase.

GilAZ: We are still paying and will continue to pay for lack of regulation until the housing crisis is stable.

*****

MRK: But its economics.The bottom line to most of this is that we have become the bank for every problem out there now.

GilAZ: Wrong, we are now the lender, NOT the bank. Fiscal irresponsibility has us greatly in debt to the world and somehow claiming two year of Pelosi and Reed are the cause is absurd.

*****

MRK: A limited government is one that stands back and leaves the economy alone.

GilAZ: Yes, and we shall recover from the LACK of oversight that created the mess we're in.

*****

MRK: Obama could move to the center.

GMK: He already is center. You just cant see to the left of him because of the mountaintop he stands atop.

*****

MRK: I fear we elected the worst candidate out there, our retirees are going to have to go back to work in a new socialist order. Communism would be their next step along with a world government and new world order as all of the economies collapse in the next turn of events.

GilAZ: The sky is falling the sky is falling. McCarthyist !

*****

MRK: More later on this and other things and what Obama means to you and me.

GilAZ: What it means to you perhaps, but not the rest of us.

*****

MRK: Do print this out each time I post in the next few days...lets see where we are in November of next year.

GilAZ: Oh Please! Save a tree and we can look back on this very page as it wanders thru the intertubes.

.

By gilmoreaz (not verified) on 05 Nov 2008 #permalink

Glad you're back MRK.

MRK: I fear we elected the worst candidate out there, our retirees are going to have to go back to work in a new socialist order. Communism would be their next step along with a world government and new world order as all of the economies collapse in the next turn of events.

May you someday realize how incredibly fucking stupid you sound.

I say this not to be unkind, but from a deep humanitarian instinct.

WHAT AN OBAMA PRESIDENCY MEANS TO YOU-DEFENSE

President Elect Obama has during his campaign stated that he will negotiate without pre-condition with the avowed enemies of the US. History will be repeating itself in short order. Great Britain also decided to negotiate with its enemies in the late 1930s following a policy of appeasement under Neville Chamberlain. Indeed, he was cheered in the springtime by his followers and vilified in the fall. When the ink was dry on the German Navy deployed to friendly ports around the Atlantic. Why should anyone worry we had that paper in hand. Great Britain as part of that paper ceded the Czech's into German control and Poland got a province of the old Prussian empire. Many Germans were outraged that Hitler gave German citizens to the Poles. All in the plan. Both France and Great Britain as part of the agreement simply acquiesced to the rearmament of Germany. Theoretically they were just agreeing to allow what was already underway in 1935-37. Germany was using all of its power to create and buy weaponry at the time and by 1938 rolled around they outnumbered the locals by 6 to 1, with another 12 to one on the way. Modern aircraft, weapons, and above all tanks were being fielded. Tanks were fielded at 22 a day during 1937.

Later Germany annexed both the Sudetenland and Austria in 1937 and then in 1938 the Brits simply sold the Czechs down the river and Germany took the country apart. With the next pact which was the Russian-German non agression pact the Germans swung into the underbelly of Poland in 1939 after having given guarantees to the Brits they wouldnt attack. The rest is history as they say. WWII had begun.

Without question a Obama Presidency is going to be one that cuts the military. He has to do it to pay for the socialist programs that he proposes. Some here will agree that it needs to be done even though by every assessment, the military size needs to be increased. We have found that our 1980-1990s thought of a three theater regional conflict plan while good, was steeped in mechanizations and planning and not boots on the ground. The Russians have rebuilt their military and are prodding the US with agressive acts to determine our resolve. They absolutely love the fact that Obama will be taking office. With 8 years of Iraq under our belt we will leave soon and with it the excuse to have a large military will be gone in many peoples minds. They are partly right as the ability to field a large army and air force increases the chances that you would use it. But when faced with overwhelming conventional forces in the world today, the chances that the outcome will be in your favor when all you have is nuclear weapons means you are now forced to use them.

Why would we go to such extremes? The US has always been able to project power into a region and that has kept things at status quo for a long time. Our navy is strong and its the one thing that even Democrats have never cut. An Obama Nation would cut even that by their own admission. This means that the oil supply will now come into question for the US and most of the free world. Democrats are responsible for the problem we are in and not one soldier in the US would have been deployed to Iraq if we had taken oil out of the equation ourselves years ago. Drilling in our own land...What a concept.

Aa pair of Russian/Chinese surrogates in Syria and Iran and ours Israel gives us access but not control of the oil supply. Iran by far is the biggest prize as it has the capability to place missiles on the beach that could sink shipping. Worse, with a couple of nuclear warheads they could push our navy out of range as the old saying of you only have to be close comes into play. Sinking or neutralizing a carrier battle group would change the balance of power. We would be only days to weeks before a nuclear exchange took place in the event of an attack.

Its fairly evident that the Chinese are not to be trusted. Even though we owe them a box load of money they can get what they want regionally now, internationally later. They played a game of cat and mouse late last year and managed to surface a nuclear tipped diesel sub 1/4th of a mile from a carrier. You dont do that unless you plan on starting a war someday. The Russians have refurbed about 15 of their nukes in dry dock now and all they have to do is put them into the water. Basically mothballed for future use.

The Obama Nation and its policies of appeasement and negotiations would seem to make people think that this is the way to go for many. Anything as long as it doesnt affect our little lives here in the US. Communism in the Cold War was what we fought. Instead we have its first start in this newly elected president and his socialist views. If we had wanted to stop Communism, we should have just run down 70 miles from Florida and stopped there. In Vietnam, all we did was grind up bodies and not win a war. But that was the second one that was a resource sucker. Korea was the first and another holding action. The last guys that fought a holding action prior to that was the South in the 1860s and we saw what that did. They lost. Ideology aside, militarily it was a blunder. Great Britain almost went under due to its socialist policies and is wrestling with it now as the realities of the world cant get past the laws of the country.

Our ability to fight wars for now is large in the US. Formidable in fact. But its based as nukes being our backup plan. Cutting back on troops and the military ensures their used. Cutting leaves our options at nukes and a weapon of last resort. At what point would you launch...When Ukraine goes? No. Poland? No. Germany? Well maybe... You get the idea.

Please keep it in mind that every war we went in to win, we ended up much better afterwards. The effects of losing them means that the tiger just tired and went home and much scratched up at that. History is about to repeat itself with the Obama Nation and that slight majority win is going to evaporate into thin air as things unfold across the next two years. The Russians if they are smart will wait until Obama is in office and then hit Georgia and Ukraine. Obama will do absolutely nothing except express the outrage, and impose sanctions that will go away slowly. They will have to...85% of the EU's gas comes from Georgia and the Ukraine. All the Rus have to do to win is turn off the gas. All we have to do to stop it is maintain our forces and increase them slightly.

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 08 Nov 2008 #permalink

Randy: He's not even the President yet. Maybe you want to wait to see what happens? Prejudging is risky. I fear he will be much more like you than like me.

I fear we elected the worst candidate out there, our retirees are going to have to go back to work in a new socialist order.

as opposed to having to go back to work in an unregulated capitalist robber barony, as is the case right now.

By Nomen Nescio (not verified) on 08 Nov 2008 #permalink

What an Obama Presidency Means To You: Civilian Defense Force

"We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set. We've gotta have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded."

Well that was slipped out just in advance of the election and it likely cut a few votes out of the fire for the Republicans. Not enough though obviously. Our military is 500,000 strong and he wants a police force with broad and sweeping powers to operate within the borders of the states. So what does this mean? All of the law enforcement people at the federal level will be part of a new federal police force, and then some?

Very interesting as we approach the anniversary of Waco and Ruby Ridge. Think about it this way. They will have to give these people something to do. The Patriot Act and I said it before would not only be abused by the Republicans but the Democrats would turn it into a Gestapo. Many would just sign on because they were stupid and ignorant to the possibilities of this new entity. Some would do it because they would become the new power elite.

We had a very limited look at this under Hoover and the FBI of the 1960's until even the Democrats cut the guts out of their antics. But this wont be antics. What does an army of 150,000 do inside the borders of its own country? Answer: Any damned thing it wants.

If Obama was able to pull this off it would completely obliterate the Posse Comitatus Act which is still in place today. The Congress weakened it due to the events surrounding Katrina and the President gained power to declare "states of emergency" and "martial law" basically when he saw fit. No oversight by Congress. Then they figured it out that this was NOT a good idea. Even Waxman understood that an aligned Republican/Dem base could suddenly show up and arrest Congress during one of those events. If I were one of them I would make sure he was on my list if for no other reason that sooner than later he would figure it out on his own.

The Posse Comitatus Act, codified at 18 U.S.C. 1385, prohibit uniformed armed services from enforcing state law or use of police powers on non-federal property. The Insurrection Act, codified at 10 U.S.C. 331-335, permits use of the armed forces to suppress-

any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy,if it----

(1) so hinders the execution of the laws of that State, and of the United States within the State, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or

2) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.

Posse Comitatus was put into place after the civil war and even as a former member of the military.... This one I fully agree with. NO President should have the powers listed there. The Act was a response to, and subsequent prohibition of, the military occupation by U.S. Army troops of the former Confederates States during the ten years of Reconstruction (18671877) following the American Civil War (18611865). Thats a Wikipedia cite. .

So how did we start to approach this? Well the Republicans and many conservative Democrats roiled at the response in Katrina. The federal governments hands were tied. NO federal troops may enter any state, or states property without the express written approval of the governor of that state. EVen if your governor is the stupidist bitch and biggest party hack in 300 miles.

People are stupid and they didnt know the law. Bush got the blame when it wasnt justified. I even called the RNC and told them to get the Republicans out in front of cameras and state for the record...BLANCO HAS TO SIGN THE ORDER FEDERALIZING THE DISASTER. She did but only after Nagin said he was going to out both her and Bush on the tarmac at New Orleans Armstrong Airport. That was a week later almost.

The troops rolled in and then things got better immediately.

So seeing a need that couldnt be ignored, John Warner and others passed the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007, which included a section titled "Use of the Armed Forces in major public emergencies." This section greatly expanded the circumstances under which the president can call in the armed forces under the Insurrection Act to include "natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition in any State or possession of the United States." Basically a codified takeover whenever a President thought it was right to do. I totally agreed with its repeal back to the old law about a year later in 08 when the Dems took over. Not so much because I agreed with them, but more because it left too much power in the hands of the President...ANY President.

Now President Elect Obama's proposal swamps any and all prior attempts to stabilize and expand presidential power over civilians in this country. He apparently envisions a police state controlled by the president. The Army Times said that the 3rd ID would soon be training as an "on call domestic force for fighting domestic terrorism, natural disasters, man made emergencies." Said emergencies might just be manufactured? Katrina wasnt, unless you believe that the Republicans had control of heaven and earth. Nice try.

Now under the Obama Nation, we might just see a major problem with our government as we cling to our guns and religion. Churches could be declared treasonist and filled with insurrectionists. So they just round them up.

Why would we need a force as big as the military and what would be the case where they would be used? Mind our military is a group that doesnt work and play well with others and it would be as big as that military... You know, that military that Obama and others want to cut...For social programs. So now we get a police force to replace the cuts and call it what? Security? I have a better idea... All felons convicted three times or for any murders,are simply hung or shot. The elimination of them would be rapid and then we dont need the prisons, the rehabilitations, the on going cost of support. Blanket law. Bet crime would just about end. But I digress.

The future of this proposal is in doubt and there is no reason for it other than to have a Gestapo. If its even 150,000 people, it would mean that we would indeed have that. Remember that the NOLA police confiscated guns from people along with the NG troops just after Katrina? They were never given back and no one even knows where they are. They just took them. These are the things that would go immediately under this police force mentality. But, to maintain power you have to maintain order and of course control the media. Ever heard of the Fairness Doctrine? Chuck Schumer and others want to bring it back to kill off the conservative talk radio hosts out there that did a good job of pulling the clothes off of King Obama and showed more and more what he was about. I wonder if he had sprung this one on us before the election two weeks out if he would have wont?

We will have a naked President soon enough. But, one thing that is challenging to us all is that the proposal is being given any sort of real consideration. What could we possibly need such a large force that would be the equivalent to 10 divisions of todays troops...14351 men/women per division. There would of course be some sort of air contigent as well so the number is ambiguous but the firepower that could be brought to bear would be an Army Corp in strength. We would have our own regional Czars to deal with and very likely be military district commanders.

The only people who currently have this are Russia, China, Venzuela, Columbia and N. Korea.

What could we possibly need such a large "police" force for?

Indeed..

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 08 Nov 2008 #permalink

There's another blog I read off and on MRK. This guy has been warning his readers for several years about the evidence of a police state. I even remember revere commenting a great while ago that he wouldn't mind a police state.
So there it is and so it will sadly be.

Do WE really want a civilian national security force that is just as strong as the military?

Here's the short video of O's words. A whooping 27 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s

Lea; I challenge you to find any place where I said I wouldn't mind a police state. On the contrary, one of the most odious things about this odious and vile administration is that it was turning our country into a police state. Randy has been the one most often "OK" with this, not me.

Hold on Lea.. Revere didnt say that. He felt I think that he was in one with Bush. Now we have someone stating it for the record here.

Clinton wanted a 100,000 man police force too. I just hope that the Republicans and Democrats give none of them what they want. Bush didnt want anything but the power for police, not the military. Obama wants to create a full blown Gestapo.

But for the record...Revere never said that to my knowledge.

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 09 Nov 2008 #permalink

revere-be: I could be mistaken but it was when I first started blogging here. And it could well have possibly been the post on the Draft. It was two or two and a half years ago.
Sorry but I don't have time to dig it up.

Did you watch the 27 second video link?