Rovian dialogue

i-9dec9987b59660d1cf3f407da9adacd7-BZ Rove Plato 10-29-04WB.jpg

I've had this on my office door for four years now.

More like this

Sciencewoman says: Some of readers have been wondering about what life is like for those jobs at primarily undergraduate institutions (PUIs). Alice and I are indubitably unqualified to answer that question, so Kim Hannula of "All of my faults are stress related..." graciously offered to provide…
So, my New Yorker subscription is about done, and I've decided not to renew it this time. This is a shame, because I've been getting it for almost three years now, and it's become a bit of comfortable habit now. Hard to beat some of the writing that is presented there, despite my disappointment…
Last night I had a bunch of dreams (or mini-dreams?) in quick succession, all with the same themes. Come to think of it, they all had pretty much the same plot, too, just different settings, situations, and characters. The dreams are pretty reflective of how I feel my life is going right now, so…
OK, so I've been here for about a week now. It's been so far an exciting and overwhelming experience - there is so much to learn! And I am impatient with myself and want to get in the groove right now. I need to learn to slow down a little... Anyway, I did manage to drop in here at the blog a…

The basis for most modern political campaigns. Rove's lasting legacy.

I thought that was Goebbels - or was it Stalin? It seems to me Rove has more in common with them than he does Plato.

By Ian H Spedding FCD (not verified) on 03 Nov 2008 #permalink

But Aristotle said that "we are what we repeatedly do", so the truth is he's just a liar ;)

As I go through them, I finding that both Aristotle and Plato had some great quotes. They've been down our road before. Also from Plato:

"Dictatorship naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated form of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme liberty."

and a rather peculiar quote:

"There will be no end to the troubles of states, or of humanity itself, till philosophers become kings in this world"

For Plato and in particular Aristotle, democracy was effectively mob rule. The notion of a constitutional democracy hedged by rule of law was not yet in play. And they were right: to the extent that democracy is the rule of the majority, we see it lead to tyranny and slavery.

The Republic was an argument for a utopian political structure, and the idea was that those who sought a good life and knowledge (philosophers) would make the best rulers (Guardians). Of course that raised the old riddle: who guards the guardians? But in context that quote is not peculiar but the conclusion of the whole argument.

I don't know if it's entirely fair to Leo Strauss to put it this way, but a lot of modern conservatism amounts to Plato without the forms. At least in America, rightists tend to ground ethics in the will of some authority figure, dominant social class, or supernatural agent instead of in an objective, rational standard (Plato) or in a set of norms that emerge from shared social and political experience (Aristotle). Which means, come to think of it, that it's not quite accurate to accuse Conservatives of reviving the Platonic idea of the noble lie since for them, to paraphrase Hamlet, there is no good or bad but ruling makes it so. No truth, no lies.