The luck of the Irish

It's interesting that Skip Gates like me is R-M222 - the purported Ui Neill haplotype - and is looking for his "Irish" ancestry, and makes the point that much White admixture is actually Irish admixture. This may well be so, but R-M222 is also found in Western Scotland among the descendants of 5th century Irish colonists to Britain. So his progenitor's ancestry may be Irish, Scots or Scots-Irish, and in some cases Northern English or even from Cornwall.

It's also fascinating that many commentators - presumably Blacks - admonish him for highlighting his Irish ancestry and think that instead he should stress his African ancestry - when by all accounts he is 50/50 White/Black and should be free to wear any hat he likes.

It's also interesting that many commentator assume that his great-grandmother was raped by an Irishman/White man. When he states in the article that all 5 children were fathered by the same man, and further that this man may have given her money for a house in a White neighborhood to raise her kids. This suggests to me that Gates's great-grandmother was the mistress of an affluent White man, who for social reasons didn't want to acknowledge this relationship publicly, but was willing and able to provide support for her and the kids privately. Like the more famous Irishman and his Black mistress, Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings.

This kind of relationship is quite common in places like Brazil today, when an affluent man will have 2 families, an official one, and another with a mistress.

I'd caution on using the Thomas Jefferson example. The media reporting on that was pretty blatantly dishonest. All but one of her children were proven by DNA testing to not be the children of Thomas Jefferson (or any other of his male relatives). One of her children was shown to be most likely the child of a Jefferson, but there were several male Jefferson candidates, some of whom were more plausible due to being younger of having a documented history of relationships with other female slaves.

It is clear that Jefferson had quite fond feelings for Hemmings, it's not clear those were romantic feelings. And the conventional wisdom, that he fathered her entire family, has been proven false.

The really interesting thing is that the Irish cop who arrested Henry Louis Gates also has the Ui Neill haplotype.
Which just goes to show that the Irish are best at fighting with one another. Proof of this - Y-DNA of Northern Presbyterians (most of not of all of whom came from lowland Scotland) & Catholics is virtually identical.

Y-DNA of Northern Presbyterians (most of not of all of whom came from lowland Scotland) & Catholics is virtually identical

Do you have any evidence of this or are you just expressing an opinion?

This is an excerpt from an article on Irish Y-chromosomes that shows significant genetic differences between Irishmen with Gaelic names and those with Scottish ones:

In Ireland 78.1% of all men have the haplogroup 1 gene.
In Ireland men with Gaelic names have higher frequencies of this ancient marker than men with non-Gaelic names. For example, men in Ireland with surnames of English origin have 62% haplogroup 1 genes; men with Scottish names have 52.9% and men with Norman and Norse names have 83%. In Leinster, 73.3% of men with Gaelic surnames have this gene, in Munster, 94.6% and in Ulster 81.1%.

http://www.insideireland.com/sample19.htm

I believe that Haplogroup 1 is an older designation for Haplogroup R1b.

Annette Gordon-Reid's book The Hemmings of Monticello documents the day to day lives of Sally Hemmings and Thomas Jefferson as relates to the timing of her pregnancies. Her research is indefatigable. The DNA testing of the sole surviving male Hemmings descendant reveals a close match to a Jefferson family male descendant. The possible candidates for Sally's liason is very small. Gordon-Reid pretty much makes the case for Thomas Jefferson as the one.

Diarmid

In the absence of universal YDNA testing and collation of results anything stated in relation to this issue has to be an expression of opinion only. However I do feel that there are good grounds for this opinion.

The Niall of the Nine Hostages haplotype (which is not by the way confined to the O'Neill strain at all, and extends to other Ulster families) is prevalent in lowland Scotland, where most of the planter families came from. You'll see that it's commonly known as the North-West Ireland/Lowland Scots haplotype.

My father, whose family is originally from the North West of Ireland, has this haplotype but most of his matches are actually with Scots-Irish families from lowland Scotland. If you look at the Scots-Irish names on Family Tree, for instance, a very significant portion of them are Ui Neill.

Interestingly, the Ui Neill haplotype is largely confined to families with their origins in the north-western part of Ireland, the genetic origins of Southern Irishmen are slightly different.

It is therefore absolutely correct to say that Henry Louis Gates' ancestor may have come from Scotland rather than Ireland. However it would appear likely that this would be lowland Scotland.

Apart from the Ui Neill issue, most Scots are r1b1 which of course is the most common YDNA strain in Ireland even for those falling outside the Ui Neill subclade.

There is a higher degree of Scandinavian admixture in the Scots-Irish obviously but the basic genetic strain is similar.

The last paragraph of this may be interesting as it shows surnames derived form O'Neill. Most of them are very common in North West Ireland, particularly Donegal.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article788652.ece

Thanks Naughtius

There's a fuller list here (which includes my family name) & which also emphasises the Scottish connexion.

http://sandwalk.blogspot.com/2008/10/niall-nigiallach-niall-of-nine-hos…

My mothers maiden name is Doherty, hmm wonder could Gates swing a route for my future kids into Harvard?