Hurricane Joaquin: Near Cat 5 On Way Out To Atlantic


Tropical Depression Eleven is currently located way east of Florida, and is predicted to become a tropical storm by Tuesday night some time. It would be nameD Joaquin. Some time Wednesday night, the storm is predicted to turn north and head straight up along the coast. There are no significant advisories or suggestions of a threatening situation from the National Weather Service, but it is always a good idea to keep an eye on these storms.

It was predicted that there would be about 12 named storms this season. There have been 9 so far, but we still have all of October and November. So this season is almost exactly on track. If it seems like a more anemic season than that, it is because several of the named storms died off far at sea.

Check this space for updates on Joaquin. Or not, if nothing interesting happens.

UPDATE Tuesday AM:

Eleven became Joaquin overnight.

The forecasts for what this storm will do are highly uncertain and seem to be divided into two different scenarios: Joaquin gets absorbed into an existing system along the US East coast, vs. Joaquin stays somewhat organized and travels up the Atlantic. The forecast currently settled on by the National Weather Service has Joaquin never forming into a hurricane but reaching top winds of about 65 MPH, but staying pretty far off shore.

UPDATE: Tuesday PM:

There is still all sorts of uncertainty about Joaquin, but it is not predicted that the storm once seemingly destine to be named but not a hurricane will likely become a hurricane pretty soon, and remain one all the way up the Atlantic, over the course of its current forecast. Click on the image to see it as an animated GIF:


UPDATE: Wednesday AM

Joaquin is now predicted to become a hurricane some time later today (Wednesday) classified as a hurricane. It will then now continue to move mostly west or west-southwest for a while then turn north.

This is when things get interesting. Depending on how far west the storm moves before turning north, and depending on other things, the hurricane will then move up the Atlantic well offshore and move out into the Great North Atlantic Hurricane Graveyard. Or, it will go north for a while, first getting stronger then getting weaker, before making left turn and hitting the US coast. The possible areas of landfall include the Chesapeake but other points as well.

In a way this is a battle between the Americans and the Europeans. The classic American hurricane models tend to show the storm striking the coast, while the European model tends to show the hurricane continuing harmlessly (unless you are a boat) into the Atlantic where it would dissipate.

In the past, according to Paul Douglas, my main source for these things, the European model has done a better job of predicting American hurricanes. (Obviously this is Obama's fault, where's Rush Limbaugh's commentary on this?) But, the American models (and I'm simplifying the meaning of "American Models" here a bit) are not totally useless.

A pretty good prediction, which is based in large part on what the National Weather Service says, and what Paul and other meteorologists way, is that Joaquin will go west for a while, turn north, somewhere in there turning into a nearly but not quite Category 3 hurricane, quite possibly threatening the Bahamas, then move north fairly quickly as it weakens and makes a big wet spot in the North Atlantic.

Having said that, every update over the last couple of days has the storm becoming stronger, and the prospects of a landfall, while the lest likely scenario, have not really diminished. A land strike remains a plausible but less likely scenario. The place of landfall, should that happen, also remains highly uncertain, but it seems most likely that it would at or north of the Chesapeake. Even models that do not have landfall have lots of rain along the US coast (and inland a ways) so an important weather event is in the offing no matter what. From the Weather Underground:

Regardless of the ultimate outcome of Joaquin's path, portions of the East Coast will still see multiple impacts from the evolving large-scale weather pattern, including flooding rainfall, gusty winds, high surf, beach erosion and some coastal flooding.

Paul Douglas provides this graphic of the many tracks produced by the many models:


One of the models, not the most likely one but possibly around a 20-35% chance, has the storm being somewhere around a Category 2 or Category 3 striking the area around the Chesapeake, like this (Also from Paul Douglas):


That would be as early as the weekend some time.

The prudent thing to do is to prepare for a land strike like this to the extent one might prepare days in advance, but to keep an eye on the forecast and stand down when it does not actually materialize.

Again, the National Weather Service is saying that the prediction of what the storm will do once it turns north depends a great deal on when it does so, because that influences the timing of the storm's interaction with other weather systems. The turning may happen around Thursday mid day through evening. So, the forecast late on Thursday may be a much better estimate of the likelihood of a landfall.

UPDATE: Mid Day Wednesday

This is an important update.

The forecast for Hurricane Joaquin is still highly uncertain, but the National Weather Service has added an important new wrinkle (Number 2 below):


1. Confidence in the details of the track forecast late in the
period remains low, since the environmental steering currents are
complex and the model guidance is inconsistent. A wide range of
outcomes is possible, from a direct impact of a major hurricane
along the U.S. east coast to a track of Joaquin out to sea away from
the coast. It is therefore way too soon to talk about specific
wind, rain, or surge impacts from Joaquin in the U.S.

2. Should the threat to the U.S. increase, any further adjustments
of the forecast to the west would likely be accompanied by an
increase in the forecast forward speed, with impacts along the coast
occurring sooner than currently forecast. A hurricane watch could
be required for portions of the U.S. coast as early as Thursday

3. Many areas of the eastern U.S. are currently experiencing heavy
rains and gusty winds associated with a frontal system. This
inclement weather is expected to continue over the next few days,
which could complicate preparations for Joaquin should it head
toward the coast.

The chances of a landfall in the US are still probably around one in five or so, but now the NWS is saying that IF Joaquin does ultimately make landfall (probably in the Chesapeake bay area) it will do so after having sped up quite a bit, and watches could be posted late tomorrow.

Also note that the eastern US is currently experiencing very rainy and windy weather, which may make preparation for the storm harder. Also, many rivers and creeks are already nearly flooding or flooding, so additional rain brought to a large area of the east coast (and by "coast" I mean large areas of any or all "east coast" states, not just along the Atlantic) will make that worse, even if the hurricane does not make landfall.
Screen Shot 2015-09-30 at 12.34.04 PM

Jeff Masters has a writeup on the storm here.

UPDATE Tuesday Evening

Interestingly the divergence between the two disparate set of models, one showing the hurricane going out to sea, the other hitting land, has increased rather than decreased since mid day. Also, the most likely area of landfall, IF there is landfall, has moved south, to the Carolinas. Also, the updated forecast is quite different in the pattern of strengthening, perhaps strengthening more slowly but staying stronger longer. So, while I promised you increased clarity the NWS is actually less certain.

The following graphic compares two of the models, ECMWF and GPS (top and bottom, respectively) generated using the Wundermap, for the position of Hurricane Joaquin in the wee hours of the morning next Tuesday.

Screen Shot 2015-09-30 at 7.03.12 PM

Both of these models can't be true in the version of the universe we live in. Also, don't make too much of the timing, the storm could move at a very different rate than projected once it starts speeding up.

Below is a projected path for the storm, but don't put much value in this. It is the consensus between two widely divergent sets of models So this is a bit like arguing over eating Vegan vs going out to a Steakhouse, and deciding to compromise. There actually is no realistic combination of the two.

Screen Shot 2015-09-30 at 6.47.38 PM

Regardless of all of this, the Bahamas is potentially in trouble. Apropos that,


The Government of the Bahamas has issued a Hurricane Warning for
the Northwestern Bahamas including the Abacos, Berry Islands,
Eleuthera, Grand Bahama Island, and New Providence, but excluding
Andros Island and Bimini.

The Government of the Bahamas has issued a Tropical Storm Warning
for the Southeastern Bahamas, including the Acklins, Crooked Island,
Long Cay, the Inaguas, Mayaguana, and the Ragged Islands, but
excluding the Turks and Caicos Islands.


A Hurricane Warning is in effect for...
* Central Bahamas including Cat Island, the Exumas, Long Island,
Rum Cay, and San Salvador
* Northwestern Bahamas including the Abacos, Berry Islands,
Eleuthera, Grand Bahama Island, and New Providence, but excluding
Andros Island and Bimini

A Hurricane Watch is in effect for...
* Bimini

A Tropical Storm Warning is in effect for...
* Southeastern Bahamas including the Acklins, Crooked Island,
Long Cay, the Inaguas, Mayaguana, and the Ragged Islands, but
excluding the Turks and Caicos Islands.

A Hurricane Warning means that hurricane conditions are expected
somewhere within the warning area. Preparations to protect life and
property should be rushed to completion.

A Hurricane Watch means that hurricane conditions are possible
within the watch area.

A Tropical Storm Warning means that tropical storm conditions are
expected somewhere within the warning area within 36 hours.

For storm information specific to your area, please monitor
products issued by your national meteorological service.

UPDATE: Thursday AM: Dilemma

To be in a dilemma is to have the choice of which horn of the bull you prefer to be gored by. At the moment, there are many people facing a dilemma with respect to Hurricane Joaquin.

Pity the poor weather forecasters. If they say "Look out, this hurricane may strike land," and the hurricane does not, they will be the Forecaster Who Cried Wolf, and in the future, many of those who were NOT hit by the hurricane will be less likely to pay attention to the forecasts. So forecasters can't overplay the possibility of a landfall. On the other hand, if forecasters don't jump up and down and shout a little, and there is a landfall, perhaps some of those who needed to be warned will have prepared less.

There is another dilemma of sorts. Over the last several years, the famous European Model has done a better job of forecasting hurricane position and strength than many other models. The European model forecast Super Storm Sandy pretty well, for example. This is a model that should be listened to. But for Hurricane Joaquin, the European model stands alone in forecasting that the hurricane will wanter out to sea and not make landfall as a significant storm anywhere. The other models all have the storm hitting something along the East coast.

These two sets of contrasts place people who might (or might not) be in the storm's pat with various personal and domestic dilemmas about what to do and not do over the next few days by way of preparation or changes in plans.

There is another dichotomy of sorts as well. At this point it is fair to ask, as it is with any major weather event, how much of this meteorological problem is the result of anthropogenic global warming. For many (not me) the standard line is "you can never attribute a single weather event to global warming." This, however, is incorrect for two reasons. The more subtle but more important reason is that many will read such a statement as "Weather events are not attributable to global warming," which is wrong, and a dangerous proposition. The other reason it is wrong is that all weather is the short term function of climate, and the entire climate is changed by global warming. Weather (and climate) is made of heat, moisture, the movement of air, that sort of thing. Global warming has resulted in more heat, more moisture in the air, changes in the distribution of that heat and moisture at the global scale, and, apparently, changes in the nature of the movement of the air. There is not, in fact, a single weather event that escapes the influence of global warming.

In the case of Hurricane Joaquin, in particular, we have a fairly specific factor related to global warming in play. The sea surface temperature in the area where the storm is currently located, and the waters over which it will pass over the next day or two, are warmer than at any time in recorded history, making those seas warmer, likely, than they have been in many thousands of years. Tens, possibly hundreds, of thousands of years. This heat will cause Joaquin to read Category 3 or Category 4 status over the next couple of days. When a hurricane becomes that strong, it is harder for those factors that might weaken it to do so, so some of that extra strength plays through as the storm moves into extratropical regions. If Joaquin strikes land in the eastern United States while it is still a hurricane (as opposed to a weakened tropical storm) then we can fairly say that was a result of anthropogenic global warming.

So, is Joaquin going to hit something?

And if so, what will it hit?

We don't know and we don't know.

As noted, there is divergence among the models. The divergence has not reduced much over the last day or so, but in about 36 hours from now, it is likely that the models will converge and a much more accurate forecast can be made. At the moments, there are models that have the storm dissipate into the Caribbean (this is highly unlikely) and as noted the European model has the storm going out to sea. In between these projections there are scenarios where Joaquin makes landfall in the Carolinas, farther north in the Chesapeake, somewhere around New Jersey or New York, farther down-east in New England, or even eastern Canada. Within that rather broad framework, the storm could make landfall at any of a number of levels of strength, and do so at any of a number of speeds, but probably in all cases rather quickly. Quickly is not good, because it means that the storm can be affecting land areas as a stronger, not yet dissipated storm. On the other hand, slow is not good because the storm could pump more water into an already rain-soaked and flooding area. There really is no "good" scenario, just a variable number of different bad scenarios.

Here are a few graphics for what they are worth, which I'm afraid may not be much. They are cribbed variously from Weather Underground, Paul Douglas's Blog, and the National Weather Service.

One generally reliable model (GFS) shows the storm menacing New England on or about October 7th:


The European model shows the storm out to sea on the same date:


The National Weather Service has settled, for now, on a forecast that has Joaquin strengthening to a Category 4 storm, then moving quickly north, transitioning through Categories 3, 2, and 1, grazing the coast and being somewhat ambiguous as to what it really ends up hitting.

pauldouglas_1443699211_10.1.15 Jtrack (1)

In science, there is a rule known as the "Law of Parsimony." This is usually mis-stated (in my opinion) as "the simplest solution is most likely to be correct." In the case of multiple competing models, this could be though of as the average of the models.

But really, the Law of Parsimony means something different. It means, given a number of alternative explanations, the simplest one is the most likely to be least wrong. This, I'm afraid, is what the National Weather Service is forced to work with on this forecast. This graphic shows most of the known models on one map:

pauldouglas_1443699274_10.1.15 models (1)

You can see that the NWS track, above, is a sort of average of all of these (it isn't really, but many models are taken into account to produce the NWS forecast). But they are all so different from one another that any given track is highly unlikely to be wrong.

One pattern has emerged during the lifespan, so far, of Joaquin. Almost every one of the NWS forecasts has suggested a stronger storm than the previous forecast. Another pattern is that the level of uncertainty in the storm's track has not gone down much, at least pertaining to the period of time after it makes a (very likely) turn to the north. After that turn happens, assuming it does, the forecasts should converge and we'll now more.

When will that be?

In 12 to 24 hours from now. During the wee hours of the morning on Friday, or as late as mid day Friday, the storm will veer north and start to speed up. Probably. By two days from now, or about mid day on Saturday, the storm will be moving north very quickly, at about a Category 3 or Category 4 storm, and its subsequent direction will be much better understood. Whether or not the storm will make landfall in the US will be much more certain then. Probably.

However, given the direction and angle of approach, it will still likely be difficult to pinpoint an area of landfall even then. Also, and very importantly, look again at the graphic above. Look at all those sharp left turns, in contrast to the tracks that follow the coast more. Those would be two very different scenarios for this storm. An early sharp left turn could put a major hurricane in your home town, if you happen to live in just the right place. If, however, the storm tracks parallel to the coastline for a while, it could produce low-level havoc over a large area, and possibly come ashore as a big wet thing that is not a hurricane.

Which would you prefer? I know, right? Dilemma.

UPDATE: Thursday PM:

Just a quick update, I'll have more later when there is both more information and I have a bit more time.

As expected, the diverse and disparate models have, according to the National Weather Service, started to converge on a narrow range of solutions. And, at the same time, the overall trend seems to be for Hurricane Joaquin to be likely to move farther from the coast than some models had earlier predicted. Here's what the NWS says in their 5:00 discussion:

A strong majority of the forecast models are now in agreement on
a track farther away from the United States east coast. We are
becoming optimistic that the Carolinas and the mid-Atlantic states
will avoid the direct effects from Joaquin. However, we cannot yet
completely rule out direct impacts along on the east coast, and
residents there should continue to follow the progress of Joaquin
over the next couple of days.

Warning: I've already seen some reporters including possible meteorologists confuse the current heavy rains the Eastern states are experiencing with this hurricane. Many parts of the East Coast are flooding or will be flooding over the next few days, which has nothing to do with this hurricane. However, depending on exactly what Joaquin does, the hurricane may later contribute to this. So, if you were thinking you might be threatened with flooding, relatively good news about Joaquin moving out to sea does not apply to your situation at all.

And, of course, it is still too early to be totally confident in the model predictions. I would stick with what I said before: Tomorrow around mid day or early afternoon there should be fairly high confidence. Probably. We'll see. Stay tuned.


Joaquin is fully into a turn to the north, is likely to strengthen more over the next several hours. But the various models have converged on a narrower set of likely outcomes. The NWS puts Tropical Wind Speed probabilities along the US coast or Eastern Canada at no better than 10 or 20%, and that applies only to far eastern New England.

I would keep watching this storm if you are in New Jersey or north, because it would not take much of a westward shift to change all this. Also, it is note entirely impossible (but unlikely) for the storm to make a sudden turn somewhere along the line. Such things have happened, though not usually without some indication in advance that it was at least possible.



Good news and bad news about Hurricane Joaquin.

The storm is still menacing the Bahamas and will do so for the net 24 hours, but it has now turned north and is likely to follow a path like this one:

Screen Shot 2015-10-02 at 2.58.38 PM

That's the good news.

The bad news is that Hurricane Joaquin is interacting with a major low pressure system in the eastern US to bring even more moisture to an already wet area. Jeff Masters has all the information on this. It is a pretty serious situation and needs to be paid attention to.

First, there is going to be "several days of coastal flooding and beach erosion" from "New Jersey to North Carolina" with especially heavy rain in North Carolina.

Second, in particular, "The latest 3-day Quantitative Precipitation Forecast from NOAA's Weather Prediction Center is calling for 10 - 15" inches of rain for the majority of South Carolina, including the cities of Charleston and Columbia."

This is with Joaquin staying AWAY from the coast. If the hurricane ends up shifting towards the coast, things would change.

The rain will be due to what meteorologists call a "Predecessor Rain Event" (PRE) ... In a Predecessor Rain Event, tropical moisture well out ahead of a landfalling tropical cyclone interacts with a surface front and upper-level trough to produce heavy rainfall, often with significant inland flooding. The PRE can develop well to the left or right of the eventual track of the tropical cyclone. Slow-moving Hurricane Joaquin is perfectly positioned to transport a strong low-level flow of super-moist tropical air that has water vapor evaporated from record-warm ocean waters north of the Bahamas westwards into the Southeast U.S. Once this moisture hits land, it will encounter a cut-off upper low pressure system aloft, with a surface front beneath it, which will lift the moist air, cooling it, and forcing epic amounts of rainfall to fall. The air will also be moving up in elevation from the coast to the Piedmont and Appalachians, which lifts the air and facilitates even more precipitation. Satellite imagery is already hinting at development of this connection of moisture between Joaquin and the Southeast low and frontal system.

Here's what that looks like on the big scary map:


There are areas of the Carolinas that will experience one in 1,000+ year events during this period.

UPDATE Sunday Morning:

Joaquin is not heading out to the Atlantic for sure, but the outer bands will affect Bermuda. Also, the storm is passing close to Category 5 strength as it does so. Meanwhile, a special kind of interaction (noted above) is happening between the storm and the US east coast causing really bad rain and flooding mainly in South Carolina but in other areas as well.

The storm may have taken a cargo ship with over 30 people on it.

More like this

LATEST UPDATE IS HERE. CLICK HERE FOR LATEST UPDATE. Update: Wed Mid Day Matthew weakened, strengthened, strengthening Matthew has interacted with land masses in Hispaniola and Cuba to the extent that the storm weakened quite a bit, losing its temporary Category 5 status. But, now Matthew is…
UPDATE Sept 9, AM Note that tropical storm force winds may start hitting southern Florida around 1 or 2 PM today, Saturday, and will reach central Florida by about 8AM Sunday. The eye of the storm should be abreast southern Florida at around sunup on Sunday. The storm may remain a major hurricane…
The Hurricane may (or may not) directly strike the Outer Banks.) I've updated the title of the post to update concern that Hurricane Arthur has a much increased chance of directly striking coastal regions in North Carolina. Scroll down to the most recent update below to find out more. I'm adding…
Saturday Mid Day UPDATE: Erika is now an ex-tropical storm. A real hurricane has an eye. Erika is a cartoon dead eye (see graphic above). When the Hurricane Prediction Center woke up this morning, they found Erika, ripped asunder by the rugged terrain of Hispaniola, to have "... degenerated into…


By Jae Brown (not verified) on 29 Sep 2015 #permalink

Doesn't look to be much. Strong westerlies shearing it off. Arrogant people building houses on the Outer Banks should be forced to suck up their own losses, rather than foisting the costs on more ensile people.

Historically, people living more inland were thankful for the rain, which replenished life.

Chincoteague ponies are still around after 400 years, despite numerous hurricanes. Why are they still around? Our Hurricane Belt is the richest species biome in North America. In Florida alone, we have Magnificant Frigate birds, bald and golden eagles, ibises, cranes, white and blue great herons, plus pet-woner released amazon, macaw and African Grey parrots, pythons, anacondas, batfish, angel fish and lion fish. Drive through the Keys, and you can't help it if you run over a Central American iguana.

If global warming enables coral reefs to form off the Carolinas, will that be a tragedy? Have you ever dived on a coral reef? Have you ever been surrounded by a school of a few hundred great barracuda? Is it scary? Not really, it is awesome.

California is seeing a never-witneesessd-before-in-modern-history profusion of humpback and blue whales. Apparently it is due to catastrophic anthropogenic global warming. Greg doesn't get to see these things in Minnesota.

By Mark Schooley MD (not verified) on 29 Sep 2015 #permalink

This comment has been deleted because the commenter is an unrepentant ass who has nothing intelligent to say.

By John Swallow (not verified) on 29 Sep 2015 #permalink

The 1200Z (8AM EDT) intermediate advisory made it official: Joaquin is a hurricane. Hurricane warnings have been issued for the central Bahamas, and a hurricane watch is in effect for most of the northwestern Bahamas. Where Joaquin is going after that, the models still don't have a good idea.

By Eric Lund (not verified) on 30 Sep 2015 #permalink

Foot's Forecast posted that some models of Joaquin are insanely bad, worse than Isabel or Sandy. Even if those fade away, I suspect we'll get 10-12" of rain anyway, with a substantial storm surge along the Chesapeake.

and could arrive late tomorrow

If the NHC thought the hurricane would arrive tomorrow, watches if not warnings would already be posted. What they are saying is that Joaquin may reach the US east coast as soon as Saturday, rather than Monday as the official forecast track indicates. Hurricane watches are normally issued 36 to 48 hours before hurricane conditions are expected.

What it does mean is that people in exposed locations (Outer Banks, Eastern Shore, Jersey Shore, south shore of Long Island, Martha's Vineyard/Nantucket, Cape Cod) need to be ready to act quickly when Joaquin makes its turn to the north.

Where I live we've been short on rain all spring and summer, so this isn't so bad (as long as we don't take a direct hit). But other places nearby have had quite a bit more rain, so this could be trouble for them.

By Eric Lund (not verified) on 30 Sep 2015 #permalink

Eric, right, I misspoke. Adjusted.

Important to note, as you know, we can detect nervousness in the NWS when they stray from the usual format in their discussions, as has happened here.

John Swallow, how dare you come on to my blog and say such an insulting thing to me?

Your comments here are nothing but annoying and have no value whatsoever. You are a bad person. You have no filter, you have no sense, you are as dumb as a broken brick, and you have no redeeming qualities.

And I will now make you disappear. Don't come back.

A big storm running straight up Chesapeake Bay, as the NHC is showing late Wednesday, sounds like a very large problem indeed. That would mean a major storm surge into Baltimore, which is probably much less prepared for such a thing than the Jersey Shore and Manhattan were. And DC might briefly have a Tidal Mall (or National Basin if you like). But the Norfolk area would probably get the worst of it.

By Steve Bloom (not verified) on 30 Sep 2015 #permalink

Something similar happened in 1933, although I suspect a track closer to the Bay might increase storm surge. The rainfall situation would be much worse with Joaquin.

By Steve Bloom (not verified) on 30 Sep 2015 #permalink

@Mark Schooley MD :

"Arrogant people building houses on the Outer Banks should be forced to suck up their own losses, rather than foisting the costs on more ensile people."

Yeah, you tell everyone where they can and can't live and make assumptions about who's able to build where and show your compassionate side so brightly here, Mark Schooley! /sarc.

'Spose you blame people who build homes near forests for having them burn in wildfires and those who build houses near Mt St Helens and other volcanoes hen their homes are destroyed by eruptions too? Nice of you to presume the people building these homes haven't already taken steps and designed their homes to handle at least a certain level of storm activity. Guess you are an expert in this area - no?

(Seriously, I'm guessing you ain't.)

"Historically, people living more inland were thankful for the rain, which replenished life."

Yes - but as Socrates apparently said "all things in moderation including moderation." There can still be too much of it obviously. Well, I'd have thought obviously.

"Chincoteague ponies are still around after 400 years, despite numerous hurricanes. Why are they still around? Our Hurricane Belt is the richest species biome in North America. In Florida alone, we have Magnificant Frigate birds, bald and golden eagles, ibises, cranes, white and blue great herons, plus pet-woner released amazon, macaw and African Grey parrots, pythons, anacondas, batfish, angel fish and lion fish. Drive through the Keys, and you can’t help it if you run over a Central American iguana."

I bet you could avoid running over iguanas and other wildlife if you, say drive carefully and slowly and keep an eye out for them!

That's all very nice and interesting (lucky you!) but I'm not sure it really has anything to do with the topic or storm situation here. No body is predicting a single storm or even a series of increasingly bad ones is going to send most of the local fauna extinct far as I've heard. I certainly don't see Greg Laden saying otherwise.

That a storm can still be a disaster without sending species extinct should I think be pretty axiomatic.

"If global warming enables coral reefs to form off the Carolinas, will that be a tragedy? Have you ever dived on a coral reef? Have you ever been surrounded by a school of a few hundred great barracuda? Is it scary? Not really, it is awesome."

That's a really big IF there - hence the emphasis added - not sure if that will happen and dubious given the likely impact of ocean acidification. Coral reefs are wonderful although I've never been scuba diving in my life. (Would love to do so one day.) I have seen and enjoyed the Great Barrier Reef in my home nation - which is threatened by the impacts of Global Overheating.

It could well also be tragic if reefs formed on sunken cities and over lost beaches, wetlands and other things at the expense of other biomes.

"California is seeing a never-witneesessd-before-in-modern-history profusion of humpback and blue whales. Apparently it is due to catastrophic anthropogenic global warming. Greg doesn’t get to see these things in Minnesota."

And you don't get to see a lot of other things that have severely negative impacts obviously. Doesn't mean they aren't happening or should be ignored when weighing up these pros and cons.

The destructiveness of the storm surge from Sandy left many shocking images for people to contemplate in regards to just how "serious" global warming effects might be. Remember, it only takes a little bit of water on the floors of your house to make it unlivable inside, and the effects just get worse from there.

Before Sandy, many people never recognized the threat from storm surges. Rain flooding is also something that many people think that they are safe from, but if a rain system stalls, if can dump historically high amounts of water in areas that just aren't prepared for them, with often unexpected results. Seeing a house float by and disintegrate in a river that had only been a little creek a week before can be eye opening.

So remember what Frank Zappa sarcastically sang, "It can't happen here..."

I lived on the Chesapeake during Isabel. The storm surge was between eight and ten feet overnight. The reason the surge was so bad was that the storm had moved inland off the water, and track NW roughly following 270 from Washington, DC toward the Frederick/Hagerstown area. The counterclockwise rotation of the winds east of the storm is what pushed all the water up the Chesapeake. The weather people on local Baltimore TV were saying "the worst is over" and "we got lucky," late into the evening preceding the storm surge. Shows what they know!

The northward winds are on the east side of the hurricane's eye. On the west side the winds are southbound, so any tidal surge in the Chesapeake should probably be manageable. Considering the current projected path of the storm, as of 10/2, @1:15 PM, only the winds on the north side of the eye should be blowing toward the east coast. Rough surf and maybe some moderately higher tides could be expected, but I don't believe it will much worse than that! But then again, what do I know!!!

By PinehurstDuffer (not verified) on 02 Oct 2015 #permalink