Is Our Government Deaf?

I agree - he took the words right outta my mouth! I'm embarrassed to acknowledge this administration and the daily,-(yes,DAILY), bullsh*t I read & hear from the media. When will it stop? WHO can stop it? and why don't they?!!!

They aren't deaf. They are listening, but not to the people. The people are irrelevant.

Sadlly, it isn't only the US goverment who don't listen.

While I agree with some of what he says, it comes out a little falsely vehement and overacted. I don't have cable any more, and readily admit that I don't know anything about this guy, but after watching this war begin and proceed as it did virtually unchallenged in the media for years, I have to say I don't buy that this is sincere civic concern. Moreover, it seems obvious that completely disengaging now would be catastrophic. Who knows, if more people had thrown as big a fit as this guy is now when this war was in the making, perhaps we wouldn't find ourselves in this situation. But we didn't. Vitriol and ignorance of the region got us in to this, and more of it won't get us out.

..Vitriol and ignorance of the region got us in to this, and more of it won't get us out.
Posted by: Chris | May 26, 2007

This I agree with.

I would also suggest that we have a duty to clean up the mess we've made (I meant to say we, they are our goverments (US/UK/Aus) after all so they act on our behalf, like it or not) and try and avoid the massive bloodbath likely to ensue if we leave quickly.

As someone indelicately said: Will someone please give this guy a blowjob so that we can impeach him.

"we have a duty to clean up the mess we've made"

And how exactly do you suggest we do this? You seem to be under the impression that the results of an occupation can be dealt with by continuing the occupation. You can't fix something you've broken by hitting it some more.

Shooting at people doesn't make them love you. It makes them shoot back. Continuing to shoot in the hope that eventually they'll start loving you just makes them hate you more.

the massive bloodbath likely to ensue if we leave quickly.

If we leave tomorrow the civil war will get a lot worse, and eventually settle. If we leave next year the civil war will continue for a year, then explode. If we leave gradually, the civil war will probably explode more slowly and take longer.

Face it. There's no peaceful way out of this one.

"we have a duty to clean up the mess we've made"

And how exactly do you suggest we do this? You seem to be under the impression that the results of an occupation can be dealt with by continuing the occupation. You can't fix something you've broken by hitting it some more.

No, I'm not under that impression.

Shooting at people doesn't make them love you. It makes them shoot back. Continuing to shoot in the hope that eventually they'll start loving you just makes them hate you more.

As a general principle I agree with you, especially as I've no real idea who we should be shooting at.

the massive bloodbath likely to ensue if we leave quickly.

If we leave tomorrow the civil war will get a lot worse, and eventually settle. If we leave next year the civil war will continue for a year, then explode. If we leave gradually, the civil war will probably explode more slowly and take longer.
Face it. There's no peaceful way out of this one.
Posted by: Kapitano | May 26, 2007

I agree; there is no easy solution and most likely, no peaceful way out. But I do think that we should at least try to find an exit route that gives the Iraqis the best chance of resolving their conflict.

There is one problem with the entire approach to the situation. I'm not sure the U.S. _can_ leave Iraq. Having reduced the country to civil war, abandoning it in the middle of a volatile region is probably folly.

Not that going in was a good idea, but "you break it, you bought it". Having created the mess, the U.S. must now clean it up. It's probably easier to get disentangled from than Northern Ireland, but there are a lot of parallels.

I would like Congress to first, ruthlessly prosecute the graft and profiteering, and second, investigate and explain why the invasion was launched in the first place.

But while reducing embezzlement would definitely help, neither of those actually get the U.S. out of the occupation business, and I'm very afraid that a precipitate withdrawal will result in an even worse mess.

Chris -
1) Keith has been articulating his anger since one too many lies, false claims that could be documented on video, were told by lead politicians in this country. His attack here on the Democratic leadership shows consistency.

2) The statement "it seems obvious that completely disengaging now would be catastrophic" is an example of the strawman used by those using mendacity as a form of political argument. None of the bills being considered have proposed immediately and completely disengaging now. They are proposing doing what noted left-wing radicals like Ed Meese of the Reagan administration endorsed in the Irag Study Group report.

3) That statement is also an example of a false dichotomy, since it contains the implicit assumption that not disengaging in the near future will be less catastrophic. This assumption is an example of a logical technique known in science as proof by emphatic assertion when used during question time at meetings or seminars.

Shouldn't have gone in, shouldn't be staying. There are no good options left. The Middle East and the muslim world in general are rightly going to hate us for several generations for what we have inflicted on them, and the reasons why (oil, oil, and more oil).

And thanks to Chris Wills for including the Australian government in the list of the culpable. They get left out too often.

..The Middle East and the muslim world in general are rightly going to hate us for several generations for what we have inflicted on them..

I can't speak for the muslim world, but the general reaction I have got from the Saudis (plus the Palestinians who work here)I work with is one of confusion and befuddlement.

They really can't understand the reasoning behind the Iraq conflict, same as me, but they don't hate us or to be more accurate they have remained as friendly and helpful to me as they have always been and I haven't heard another western ex-pat saying that he has found the attitude changing.

Most of them have studied in the US or UK and have continued to go on holiday to the UK (the US visa restrictions have made it harder to visit friends in the US).

So I don't think that they hate the people of the US or UK or Aus. They despise our goverments and a common question is "why did you re-elect these people?" for which I have no good answer (I don't bother to mention that I've never voted for Bliar, that would be avoiding a fair question).