Your Friday Dose of Woo has been interrupted to bring you an important rant. The previously scheduled installment will be delayed and will appear later on in the day.
This is more important.
A common characteristic of cranks and denialists, be they antivaccinationists or large corporations or whatever, is an intolerance of criticism for their views. All too frequently, this has taken the form of the abuse of the legal system in order to try to silence their opponents. The Society of Homeopaths did it to a blogger a while back. A quack by the name of Joseph Chikelue Obi did it to the same blogger earlier this year. I had written those examples off as not completely applicable to the U.S. because U.K. libel laws are so plaintiff-friendly as to make it almost impossible for anyone who isn't already wealthy to successfully defend a libel suit. However, the U.S. legal system lends itself to such abuses as well, just in different ways.
That's what we're seeing as two litigants seeking compensation for "vaccine" damage, Rev. Lisa Sykes and Seth Sykes have abused the legal system when they subpoenaed autism blogger Kathleen Seidel, a blogger who has done work every bit as detailed and well-researched as any journalist and posted it at her Neurodiversity weblog.
The subpoena itself is clearly nothing more than a fishing expedition designed to intimidate Kathleen into silence after she did a series of posts about the antivaccination views of the Sykes and their lawsuits against Bayer, a series that most recently concluded with a post called the Commerce of Causation, which listed the numerous dubious lawsuits that the Sykes' lawyer, Clifford Shoemaker, has been involved in against vaccine manufacturers (just look at all the vaccine misinformation and pseudoscience on his website!). I can't for the life of me figure out the legal justification for this subpoena. That's because there doesn't appear to be one, other than to go on a vendetta of a fishing expedition by trying to drag Kathleen as a third party witness into the Sykes' lawsuit. It doesn't matter, as Overlawyered has pointed out, that Kathleen possesses no specialized knowledge that can't be obtained any other way or that she is not a party in any way to the lawsuit, or that she has not been accused of defaming anyone. Reading the subpoena makes it mind-numbingly obvious that Shoemaker hopes to turn up evidence that Kathleen has accepted support from the federal government or vaccine manufacturers, which, I'm guessing, he hopes to use to slime her and destroy her credibility. There's nothing there, but Shoemaker thinks there is, and that's enough.
The demands of the subpoena are amazingly broad and particularly chilling. Shoemaker wants to rummage through Kathleen's financial records, correspondence, Freedom of Information requests, and much, much more. Just read the text of the subpoena. Most chilling of all, from the point of view of a blogger, is that the subpoena demands all correspondence with fellow bloggers (see #5 in the subpoena; it's a scanned document, and I couldn't just cut and paste the text).
Kathleen has drafted a motion to quash this frivolous and vindictive subpoena. Her text points out just how much of a blatantly obvious fishing expedition the subpoena is:
9. The subpoena commands production of "all documents pertaining to the setup, financing, running, research, maintaining the website http://www.neurodiversity.com" - including but not limited to material mentioning the plaintiffs - and the names of all persons "helping, paying or facilitating in any fashion" my endeavors. The subpoena demands bank statements, cancelled checks, donation records, tax returns, Freedom of Information Act requests, LexisNexis® and PACER usage records. The subpoena demands copies of all of my communications concerning any issue which is included on my website, including communications with representatives of the federal government, the pharmaceutical industry, advocacy groups, non-governmental organizations, political action groups, profit or non-profit entities, journals, editorial boards, scientific boards, academic boards, medical licensing boards, any "religious groups (Muslim or otherwise), or individuals with religious affiliations," and any other "concerned individuals."
10. The subpoena violates my First Amendment right to freedom of religion by demanding information about my religious beliefs.
11. The subpoena violates my Fourth Amendment right to freedom from unreasonable search and seizure because it is overbroad and general in character.
12. The subpoena is impermissible under Rule 26(b)(1) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, which allows discovery of only those matters that are relevant to the subject of the action. None of the information requested in the subpoena can reasonably be anticipated to assist the court in determining the cause of Wesley Sykes' neurodevelopmental disorders, the truth of the plaintiffs' factual allegations, or the liability of Bayer Corporation for negligence, design defect, or breach of warranties. The subpoena therefore serves no legitimate evidentiary or investigatory function.
[...]
15. Even if the subpoena were not unconstitutional, illegal and barred by the journalist's privilege, it is excessively intrusive in its terms. Plaintiffs and their counsel seek not only to rummage through records that they suspect pertain to themselves, but also through my family's bank records, tax returns, autism-related medical and educational records, and every communication concerning all of the issues to which I have devoted my attention and energy in recent years. I have a reasonable expectation of privacy with respect to this material. It would be wholly inappropriate for the court to compel me, a nonparty to this civil action, to subject myself, my family, friends and acquaintances to the hostile scrutiny of plaintiffs in order to enable them to argue some point that would not even help to prove their case.
[...]
17. The subpoena was not issued in good faith because its manifest purpose is not to elicit information relevant to determining Bayer's liability for Wesley Sykes' medical and developmental problems, but to indulge his parents' and their attorney's curiosity about my motivations and associations; to aggressively communicate their suspicion that I am not merely a fellow citizen who openly, intelligently and conscientiously disagrees with their public statements and actions, but a covert agent of the government, the pharmaceutical industry, or some other hidden force; to disrupt my relationships with my associates and news sources; and to intimidate, harass and retaliate against me for exercising my constitutional right to report and express opinions about matters of widespread public interest in which plaintiffs and plaintiffs' counsel are involved. These are not legitimate reasons to invoke the judicial subpoena power. Indeed, in so doing, Mr. Shoemaker has engaged in a sanctionable abuse of his authority as an officer of the court.
I agree with Jake and PalMD. Mr. Shoemaker is a despicable scum-sucking piece of excrement. Not only is there no scientific evidence that vaccines cause autism, making Shoemaker's raison d'être (suing vaccine manufacturers for fantastical "vaccine injury") of no value to society, but he can't take the heat when a blogger takes a look at his profiting on scientifically a discredited hypothesis. True, if the Sykes believe that vaccines somehow injured their child, they have the right to sue, but if Kathleen Seidel (or anyone else for that matter) believes that they are engaging in a frivolous lawsuit based on a claim that has no basis in science (as Kathleen and I both do), they have the right to say that, particularly when backed up with evidence and strong arguments. What Shoemaker is doing is nothing short of using legal thuggery to indulge his paranoid beliefs that Kathleen is somehow a "pharma shill" and to intimidate other bloggers who may have communicated with her or helped her. As Walter Olson of Overlawyered put it:
Should the subpoena somehow be upheld and its onerous demands enforced, it could signal chilly legal times ahead for bloggers who expose lawyers and their litigation to critical scrutiny.
That's clearly what Shoemaker, the Sykes, and the mercury militia want, and that's almost certainly why Shoemaker issued this subpoena. The antivaccination movement thrives on intimidation. It can't handle reasoned and science-based criticism because it can't answer it, having no science to support their increasingly tortured claims of vaccines causing autism. As much as they would normally deserve my sympathy for the difficult task they have raising an autistic child, the Sykes lost most of it through their lawsuits based on vaccine pseudoscience and lost the last of it when they let their shark try to drag Kathleen Seidel into this through the issuance of this subpoena, whose issuance is a lot like a SLAPP-style action. Now they have only my contempt for allowing this legal thuggery to occur in their name, and my contempt goes double for their lawyer, Clifford Shoemaker, who clearly is willing to abuse the subpoena process to try to punish a gadfly who has annoyed him with her commentary. We can only hope that the judge sees through this blatantly obvious legal fishing expedition and its naked intent to intimidate a blogger whose only involvement with the case is to comment on it from the sidelines and to publicize justified criticisms of Shoemaker's and the Sykes' handling of the case. We can only hope that the judge agrees with Kathleen Seidel and not only quashes this subpoena but quashes Shoemaker and his abusive tactics--preferably with serious sanctions. We can also hope that the state bar where Shoemaker practices is made aware of his abusive tactics. We can also hope that Shoemaker and the Sykes, like "Dr. Obi" and the Society of Homeopaths before them, discover the Streisand effect.
Thank you so much for sharing my outrage about this.
Kathleen has always been respectfully polite in her blog, while beating the Hg crew with the facts. When you turn over rocks, people like Shoemaker will slither out. Does NH have any resources for legal aid for such a case?
I never said that---I wish I had.
Damn you for beating me to it.
Just for the record, I also think that Mr. S. is a despicable scum-sucking peice of shit.
How much would Shoemaker have made if he was getting the usual 33% that lawyers charge for winning lawsuits? This vaccine court small change is a pittance compared to what he should earn on the open market after he wins this omnibus case. It's like being paid for on the job training. I hope I can hire him. The experience he's gaining here will make him a valuable asset to all of us who had children poisoned by the medical industry. He should thank Kathleen for giving him some publicity.
ooh, I think this will stand up for all of 3 minutes..
nice to see her not being intimidated though, now lets see her win :twisted:
OK, I paraphrased.;-)
Good to see that you agree with my paraphrasing.
If you actually read the subpoena, it's a piece of garbage. I've seen huff-and-puff letters set up with more care. Kathleen will not only get this thing quashed, but the judge will very likely agree with a request to sanction Shoemaker -- which means Shoemaker could be facing a stiff fine and even the possible loss of his license.
What a bunch of blustering shitbag slimeballs.
I seem to remember that when PZ Myers was threatened with an equally fatuous lawsuit threat, a Professor of Law or two with some concept of free speech offered PZ free legal advice, argument drafting, counter threat with bigger legal gun stuff etc etc. Would hope someone will do the same for Kathleen.
BTW, reading about Mr Shoemaker I was oddly reminded of that joke about "98% of the lawyers giving the rest a bad name"
I think a judge would call in the State AG and suggest Kathleen serve some time in the stocks on the Concord Common.
I can't say I'm surprised to see your support for Kathleen.
I have made a list of the blogs discussing this.
This is purely disgusting. But what do you expect from people who don't believe in proper protection of research subjects and would subject their child to unethical and potentially illegal "research." I don't see how this has any chance in moving forward. If it was upheld, I think Grier and his ilk might need to change their underwear when they realize what liabilities they are exposing themselves to.
I am Kathleen!
As I recall, Shoemaker's interest in vaccine injury is somehow connected to his sister who was partially paralyzed by Polio, the wild virus, not the live virus vaccine.
If anyone should be supportive of the vaccine program I would think it would be him. Maybe he's lashing out at vaccines in general for not being available soon enough to help his sister? It makes no sense.
John, you're a real class act among fucking assholes, you know that?
Sharon, add me to the list when you get a chance.
Best...you're such a simp. You know you've hit the depths of loserville when, even as a fellow anti-vaxer, EoH doesn't want you around anymore.
Whats the matter...tired of talking to yourself over at that rag you call a blog?
Listen, Shoemaker is in Vaccine Court because he couldn't win in regular civil court. Best said it himself....think of allll the money he could win in civil court.
Begs the question, why isn't he???
Had your slimy reputation not preceded you John Best, I would have assumed that was a joke. Unfortunately knowing what you are I know that it's really your pig ignorant and nasty personality vomiting on the Internet going public, again.
Bones,
I can see from my statcounter that a lot more people have learned the truth about Kathleen's friend, Amanda Baggs. Perhaps if Baggs faces criminal charges of fraud, Kathleen can be held as an accomplice. Maybe the two of them could spend some time in the stocks.
Shoemaker can set a precedent in vaccine court and those of us excluded by the statute of limitations can then file in state courts, break Pharma and afford the treatments we need for our poisoned kids.
Then Mark Geier and Andy Cutler can cure them all. And, Kathleen's mission of preaching insanity will have been defeated.
What is most interesting, from a legal standpoint, is that Sykes v. Glaxco/Bayer is a TORT case, sounding in products liability, meaning that the Sykes' are alleging that Glaxco/Bayer put an unsafe/dangerous product into the stream of commerce (I am condensing this quite a bit); given that both named defendants are manufacturers, plaintiff needs to prove,a t trial, by a 51% standard, that somehow the "design" of their vaccines was flawed (i.e., I don't believe they are alleging that one particular batch of vaccine was flawed but rather, every batch had what is termed a "design defect").
How any blogger's opinions--pro or con--could be at all relevant to that issue is beyond me.
The motion to quash covers all bases: overbreadth, seeking consitutionally-protected material, etc., but the one I would put money on would be that there is no reasonable expectation by the plaintiffs that "relevant" material would be produced therewith.
Here's hoping the judge rules correctly and quashes the subpoena.......
Thanks for the great rant, Orac.
I'm one of the 100+ bloggers named in item 5 of the subpoena.
I'm keeping a running list of reactions to the Seidel subpoena at I Speak of Dreams. I hope the story is picked up by MSM.
And John Best? My opinion of you has not changed-- you are still a despicable cyber thug.
I am Kathleen too! (Spartacus, anyone?)
Go get 'em Kathleen! You have the emotional support of many more than you realize.
Stupid is as stupid does. It does burn, Orac. Oh, how it burns.
I am Kathleen too! (Spartacus, anyone?)
Go get 'em Kathleen! You have the emotional support of many more than you realize.
Stupid is as stupid does. It does burn, Orac. Oh, how it burns.
I am Kathleen too! (Spartacus, anyone?)
Go get 'em Kathleen! You have the emotional support of many more than you realize.
Stupid is as stupid does. It does burn, Orac. Oh, how it burns.
I think I preferred Cliff Shoemaker when he was played by Vincent Price. Ms Seidel is lucky she wasn't subpoenaed for devils' marks.
mekei au trois,
I AM KATHLEEN TOO!
Clifford Suemaker and Rev. Psycho can bite me.
What a disgusting, aggressive, and yet insightful move by the mercury militia. They have no evidence, just rumors, innuendo, exaggerated anecdotes on Yahoo boards and email lists, a silicon-injected celebrity or two and a bunch of money funneled through antivaccination and antigovernment extremists. These filthy people and their lemmings are truly amazing in their rabid efforts to suppress science and the freedom of speech for those who actually support scientific progress.
If ever there was a hunk o' hunk o' burnin' stupid, your comment above is it. Your vile, despicable commentary is not welcome here. You can continue to post (I don't censor--at least not yet), but I heartily encourage every commenter here to do to you what you deserve: Mock you for your malignant idiocy.
So, it's more or less the Sykes' and their attorney trying to shut Kathleen up. I read the subpoena and the response.
I'm no federal judge, but from what I know of the law, this subpoena should be quashed forthwith. As for judicial sanction, I wouldn't hold my breath. However, I would certainly contact the serving attorney's home state bar association and file a complaint with their ethics board.
If I weren't living a bleak hand-to-mouth existence I would cheerfully donate to Ms. Seidel's defense.
Orac,
So you think prison is more appropriate than the stocks? I don't mind seeing her get what she deserves over quickly. Some public humiliation would be justified after the way she has mocked people who help autistic children.
Judging by some other comments here, I guess mocking me is about the best defense you pseudointellectuals can muster.
I am not familiar with the judiciary in New Hampshire, but I am encouraged by what I have been able to learn about Hon. James Muirland, who has been assigned the matter of Ms. Seidel's subpoena. His reported rulings on substantive legal issues seem sensible and well-reasoned, at least the ones I have located. Even better, he can recognize absurdity when presented with it. A prisoner in his court sued the corrections system for millions, in part because they persisted in serving him hard-boiled eggs, which he loathed. The prisoner accompanied his pleadings to the judge with a actual hard-boiled egg, to somehow prove the validity of his claims. Judge Muirland's response began:
"I do not like eggs in the file.
I do not like them any style.
I will not take them fried or boiled.
I will not take them poached or broiled...."
The Seidel subpoena, though couched in recognized legal boilerplate, is equally absurd, and I hope it too will receive the response it deserves.
Well, I don't have time for the prolonged mockery you so richly deserve, John Best, but
I'm afraid this black hole of a projectionist fearmonger's delusion may have just ruptured the space-time continuum...so maybe I have more time than I realize.
It must really, truly, suck to be you. Get some help.
Actually, mockery is the only appropriate response of moral and intelligent people to your vile stupidity. Your "arguments" (such as they are) are too idiotic to be worth a serious response.
What's with John's obsession with conspiracy, sodomy and child molestation? Maybe he needs to have his own dirty laundry aired? Maybe his kids need to have a good medical checkup by a qualified physician? He has a dishonorable discharge from the army doesn't he? John, I'm do for my vaccination at the vet and you are due for your rabies shot.
Your "arguments" (such as they are) are too idiotic to be worth a serious response.
Posted by: Orac | April 4, 2008 7:25 PM
The only argument I have, without becoming bogged down in minutiae, is that autism can and should be cured. Anyone opposed to that is either disingenuous or a simpleton.
Would you like to become autistic?
Catman,
Thanks for the slander, it shows your IQ.
"Judging by some other comments here, I guess mocking me is about the best defense you pseudointellectuals can muster."
As I speak to an infant as an infant, and to a dog as a dog, so to am I speaking to you in the only language you understand - fyi...that would be jackass. You're a lonely, lonely child, but I tell ya what. If you're able to pick your knuckles up off the ground long enough to type me an example of Kathleen lying or misstating a fact, well, I'll stop mocking you. Until then, you wear a crown of shit as far as I'm concerned.
Hey Zeus is my Homeboy! Nothing, really...just wanted to say that's a kick ass name.
"The only argument I have, without becoming bogged down in minutiae, is that autism can and should be cured."
I think I'm speaking for everyone when I say that IF POSSIBLE autism should be cured. Unfortunately, that is not possible right now. It is comforting to most autistic parents to come to grips with their child's condition, accept and love them for who they are and focus their energy on proven therapies (cognitive, behavioral therapy) that can have beneficial impact on their autistic child's life instead of chasing ghosts. The only difference between us and your ilk is that we don't agree with the shady, unethical and dangerous therapies (chemical castration, chelation, etc) that are being used on young children by a bunch of greedy quacks.
The world renowned Dr Mark Geier is curing autism using Lupron and chelation. It is not possible to chemically castrate anyone who has not reached puberty.
I don't think Bones is smart enough to see both of the lies that I just exposed here. Maybe one of you can explain it for him, her or it.
Hey, John! Back up what you say & then we might respect you!
Help me get out of my moronic body....save me please...
Rant mode:
Autism should be treated. Cured? Maybe. But to so would inescapably alter another person's personality, and that should not be undertaken lightly. Contrary to the hateful fearmongering of some, autistics are not hopeless creatures that no parent could possibly want. They are PEOPLE.
And as people, it is inhumane to subject them to medical interventions that have no evidence to back them, and to deny them medical interventions that do. Only a fool, a monster, or a deeply deceived person, would do the sorts of things to these people that are promoted by DAN! and other agencies. Deliberately subjecting them to infectious disease as an alternative to vaccination. Chelating them, sometimes with actual chelators, sometimes with fakery. Injecting painful "natural" chelators. Chemical castration, a truly despicable "cure" straight out of the eugenics movement of the 1930s. Drastic dietary modifications sure to leave the child feeling left out of class events and vulnerable to mockery and cruel practical jokes by classmates. Colonoscopies -- risky, uncomfortable, humiliating procedures. "Natural" remedies from other countries which, ironically, contain actual dangerous amounts of mercury and/or lead. Acupuncture, which involves sticking LOTS of needles into a patient. (Remember, autistics tend to be far more sensitive.) "Rebirthing" therapy. Drilling out mercury-amalgam fillings to replace them with ceramics (a painful procedure which costs precious and irreplaceable tooth enamel).
And the biggest tragedy of all is that these procedures do nothing. The parents will glowingly talk about how much good it has done their child, even if the improvement is minimal and consistent with normal development for an autistic child. Anyone who points that out will be lambasted for being too negative, for wanting their child to fail, or for not really understanding. But like veterinary homeopathy, the treatments are nothing more than an elaborate ritual to reassure the parents. They do nothing for the patient. I find myself deeply suspicious that we hear many positive testimonials from parents, but none from grown autistics. Indeed, of the few testimonials I've heard from grown autistics, every one has been negative. It does make one wonder.
John Best,
Have you a cure for autism? Do you know where a cure for autism can be found? Has the cure been tested and found effective?
Arcale,
Do you really think any parent wants their kid to grow up to be another Amanda Baggs, weighing 300 pounds and having a 500 pound woman for a lover? How would I ever live that down at the 19th hole after a good round of golf? Come on, that's no way to go through life. We want a better life than that for our kids.
If we let our kids turn out like that, it means we screwed up as parents.
Folks, do not expect real answers from either John Best or AnonySue/CommonSue. They do not believe in presenting actual evidence. Their only defense are moronic insults, thinking somehow that they are suitable substitutes for evidence.
If either of them came back with a link to real verifiable evidence to support their claims, the Internet would crash and never come back again!
HCN,
Even worse, PZed would become a fundamentalist pre-Mosaic Jew and start producing pepperoni pizzas for the gay community.
Reading John Best's ludicrous posts and the responses brings to mind this remark of British biophysicist and Nobel Prizewinner A.V. Hill:
"Laughter is the best detergent of nonsense"
The context of this, remark, made in the 1930s, is interesting. Anyone interested can find the story in various places, including in the excellent obituary of Hill's protege (and 1970 Nobel Prizewinner) Sir Bernard Katz here.
When you turn over rocks, people like Shoemaker will slither out.
This sounds suspiciously like a slur against snakes.
And yet, as months started turning to years, JB continued running and screaming away from all our requests for that "minutiae" and told us to just blindly trust him.
That's one reason I'm all in favor of mocking. I certainly gave you far more of a chance than you deserved, and you blew it a long, long time ago.
Exactly. I tried for a long time to be patient with the Best-bot. He's like the Terminator of Stupid, though. He can't be bargained with. He can't be reasoned with. He doesn't feel pity, or remorse for the vile things he says. He absolutely will not stop, ever, until your brain is dead.
All that leaves is mockery. Or, as Thomas Jefferson is quotes as having said, ""Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them."
Dear John,
Sorry you haven't seen much of me lately but I've decided that even I can't hang around a prick like you any longer.
P.S. Say goodbye to the fist for me.
HCN,
Here's your link on how to cure autism.
http://tinyurl.com/67zgtk
Why's most of it in Chinese?
Give up the evidence John Beast. Lay it out. Go ahead. All you have so far are anecdotes and buckets of dumb.
If anyone is interested in a long list of quotes from Mr. Reality Challenged and want to really see what he's all about
go here
Lucas,
I have not seen any neuroinsane blogs in Chinese so I thought I'd relay the truth to them before you nitwits translated your propaganda to abuse their children.
"Why's most of it in Chinese?"
It seems to be a line-by-line translation of his rant into Chinese. Maybe he's hoping for hits from China?
I would never click on a tinyurl from JB. Thanks to those who did.
JB-bot, try something that is real and verifiable. Perhaps from a journal indexed at PubMed.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait... LUPRON??? I am almost speechless. Do these people understand what... you know what? I was going to go on a big rant about Lupron and its intended uses (as someone who was on it for experimental purposes years ago), but really? There is no point. I am just stunned. STUNNED.
Y'all must be tired of my neophyte comments on all of this woo since y'all are old hat. I find myself unable to keep from commenting because it is so outrageous! Screw it, I'm going to get waffles.
Liesl, you might be interested in this after you have finished your waffles:
http://neurodiversity.com/weblog/article/109/lupron-geier-index
I see the internet has not crashed, JB is still trying to prove stuff by just saying it is so, without any real evidence.
Wow. There are so many things wrong with the assumptions and mindset behind this comment that I don't know where to start.
I'm sorry that's the attitude you have towards autism and people with autism. I genuinely love and value my daughter and want what's best for her, rather than putting my ego ahead of her needs, and I am confident and hopeful that with she will continue to improve with the treatment - behavioral therapy that teaches her how to deal with the world in a way that her differently-wired brain can understand absorb - that she is presently receiving and has a perhaps challenging, but healthy, fulfilling, and productive, life ahead of her. I'm sorry that you wouldn't feel the same way.
I pity any children you might have, and look at in the way your comment describes, roughly as much as I pity John Norman's daughter. And I pity you, for the sort of person you seem to be. No one deserves to have to live with that.
"The world renowned Dr Mark Geier..."
-Yes, he's a legend in his own mind. I wonder what he and Boy Wonder (Davey) do in their basement lab all night long?
"...is curing autism using Lupron and chelation."
-Lupron?!? Really, that's like soooo 2007. C'mon John catch up with the rest of the anti-vax yahoo's. Mito PPD!! It's the new craze for the crazies.
"It is not possible to chemically castrate anyone who has not reached puberty."
-Sooooo, they do or they don't have precocious puberty?!? Which is it? Make up my mind.
"I don't think Bones is smart enough to see both of the lies that I just exposed here."
-John, everything the spews forth from that cake-hole you call a mouth is a lie.
Liesl, Was Lupron part of the procedure for your sex change?
Askyroth,
So, you want your daughter to marry a 500 pound woman?
999,999,999 out of 1,000,000,000 parents would disagree with you.
I can imagine you'd be proud to say " I do" when a minister asks "Who gives this woman to this sweathog?"
(By the way, Orac, I think that incredibly callous, hateful, and dismissive comment from John Best earlier is worth hanging on to).
Thanks for that, HCN. I am still almost speechless about the Lupron thing. I took it for two years nonstop as an experimental treatment, and though I recognize that my experience is utterly anecdotal, I am sickened by the possibility of children going through the hell it caused in me. What's next? Warfarin for autism? Ya know, their blood must somehow carry seronegative antibodies that cause autism so if you can thin it enough it will cause the antibodies to pass through the body into the urine.
I joke, but it isn't really funny since anything is possible with these people.
Tech-related media are beginning to report on the Seidel story.
John Best highlights an interesting usage of "world renowned", as in: "The world renowned Dr Mark Geier..."
Being a simple soul, I used to think "world renowned" meant "recognised world-wide for being good at, or eminent in, something".
It is now clear that in the Alt-(med)-iverse it means "globally infamous".
As in: "Jeffrey Dahmer was a world renowned psychopathic serial murderer and cannibal"
How gratifying that we can now describe any leading charlatan, liar or con-artist as "world renowned" without having that awkward feeling that that wasn't quite the right choice of words.
Dr. Aust, yeah, you're right. I never thought of it that way.
I guess Geier IS "world renowned", in his own infamously, incompitent way.
Can I join in?
Mr Best, saying that Autism is curable and should be cured is not an argument, it is a position statement.
The argument comes when you try and prove that autism can be cured using the Geiers etc methods. Oddly enough you cannot so demonstrate this.
John Best:
What an oxymoronic last name! Anyway... I almost missed your sex change comment to me and that would have been sad as it has afforded small amusement in an otherwise lazy day. Thanks for that!
"I can imagine you'd be proud to say " I do" when a minister asks "Who gives this woman to this sweathog?"
-that should be an easy answer. what did your in-laws say?
If Kathleen would put a Paypal link on her site, I for one would gladly kick in the price of a couple of coffees to help pay her legal fees.
How stupid it is that she should have to pay out of pocket for reporting the truth.
(the news about the judge is encouraging.)
I'll be darned; there is one. Been there, gave that.
First, I don't share your infantile prejudice against overweight people, though there are obvious health concerns. I wouldn't want my daughter to become unhealthily obese, and would be concerned about the health problems her partner might experience in such an event and their effects on her and the relationship, but - apparently unlike you - I not only wouldn't stop seeing my daughter as a person if she were overweight, but have not already ceased to see her as a person on account of her autism. On the other hand, if she were to grow up to become a small-minded, callous, vindictive, hateful, bigoted, misanthropic fanatic, I would hang my head in shame.
Second, I think 999,999 out of 1,000,000 parents with autistic children (I don't think there are actually a billion of them) would disagree with your appallingly bigoted, callous, and condescending stereotype of what "autism" means for a person's life (yes, ASD patients and children are "people"; you seem to be a bit confused on this point). I certainly would; I have confidence - reasonable confidence based on the pattern of improvement and growth I've observed - that my daughter will continue to improve as she has with ABA therapy, a scientifically supported approach that is both grounded in coherent theory and has produced repeatable, empirically demonstrated results, and by all indications she will probably be able to live as normal a life as I've had. And speaking as a person who's struggled with an ASD myself and not had either the outcome which a shallow, bigoted misanthrope like yourself apparently considers the nadir of "loser" nor the sort of outcome *I* would consider "becoming a loser" (ask the mirror for details), I find your characterization offensive personally as well as on principle - so "fuck you" right back. You've really shown your true colors here, Mr. Worst.
Incidentally, assuming for the sake of argument that your ideas about what autism means are accurate, you might ask those 999,999,999 parents whether they'd prefer their child grow up to weigh 300 pounds and marry a 500 pound woman with or without them having spent hundreds to thousands on quack treatments that in the best of cases produce improvement no more significant than the normal progression for autistic children, the confirmation bias and straw-clutching of their devotees notwithstanding. Considering that children have been killed by these quack therapies and by vaccine-preventable illnesses, you might also ask them whether they'd rather their child grow up to weigh 300 pounds and marry a 500 pound woman than not grow up at all. And if you had a single sliver of actual compassion or empathy anywhere in your body, you might also think to ask how many of them think children will have *better* outcomes if they're taught that they're "broken, need fixing, and an embarassment to their parents in front of their golf buddies" than if they're taught that they are "different and challenging but loved and worthwhile." I don't think you'll find a lot of support for your position on those questions.
I seem to remember hearing that you have at least one child with an ASD. If that's correct, then I openly challenge whether you have the guts to look him/her/them in the eye and tell them what you think of them, based on your comments about autistic children and their future prospects here. Learning they have a monster for a father will be painful, but it's better that they know for certain rather than hoping for some manifestation of love, acceptance, or respect from you.
Guthrie, I've already demonstrated that chelation cures autism. To see it for yourself, you'll have to find an autistic kid and cure him yourself. You have all sorts of Aspies to choose from around here. Maybe you could cure Lucas McCarthy and he'd be able to find a job.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait... LUPRON??? I am almost speechless. Do these people understand what... you know what? I was going to go on a big rant about Lupron and its intended uses (as someone who was on it for experimental purposes years ago), but really? There is no point. I am just stunned. STUNNED.
Yep. Some of the quacks actually push Lupron on autistic children. I wonder how many of the parents realize just what they are risking. Does Mark Geier at all actually tell them what Lupron is? Or does he just tell them that he thinks it affects blood mercury levels because he thinks testosterone binds the mercury? It's a very tenuous chain of unsupported assumptions heaped upon unsupported assumptions, with the end result being that for no good reason at all, a bunch of children grow up impotent and infertile.
John Best is good at thinking like a parent of an autistic child. He's got this dreadful monster to deal with, and he'd rather have a perfect angel. What parent wouldn't? But I wonder how often he tries to think like an autistic child. Imagine you are autistic. For years, you endure painful therapies. Injections. Bizarre dietary restrictions that give your schooltime tormentors one more tool for humiliating you. Mounds of "natural" pills. Perhaps a bout of whooping cough. And then the final insult: Lupron. You don't quite understand it at the time, but because your parents tell you you have to get it, you do. Then in high school, your tormentors have a new weapons against you -- your high voice, your underdeveloped genitals. And perhaps ten years after that, when your friends are sending invitations to their weddings, you're thinking about how horrible it is that you don't dare date anyone, because you dread a woman seeing you naked and laughing. And dread even more the knowledge that you will not be able to perform. If you are lucky, you will one day find an understanding woman. But you will not have children. Your parents, fooled by the profit-mongers, will have robbed you of that. Robbed you first of a painless childhood and then of the opportunity to have children yourself.
And you will still be autistic. Perhaps you will have endured through your travails, and found a way to function, despite all of the needless experimentation that was done to you.
I have heard from autistic children who were experimented on by parents who thought their children were "damaged". They grew up laboring under a negative assumption about their abilities, and grew up resenting their parents for all the pain and lies that their parents subjected them to them. Some have learned to accept the latter; they know their parents were fooled by fraudsters. But few accept the former. They know their parents thought they were stupid, and uncontrollable, and antisocial, and unable to succeed on their own merits.
It's very hard to come to terms with knowing that your dad thinks that left to your own devices, you're doomed to become a fat slob who marries an even fatter slob -- and that your dad will certainly consider you a failure if that is your fate.
Autism is a terrible thing to have to deal with by itself. But to also have to cope with such a defeatist attitude, and a denial of all that is good in your personality, on top of pointless interventions, all because you didn't turn out the way your father wanted you to . . . .
No, he isn't.
...perhaps I should clarify. The mindset he describes, and you elaborate on, is perhaps that of a person who wound up with legal custody of and a genetic relationship to an autistic child.
It is not the mindset of of a parent.
Thanks for getting this out there, ORAC.
I know that this must get tedious at times (how many times do you have to say the same things before someone will actually listen?), but as things just seem to get more bizarre every minute, reason must not be left to fall at the wayside.
Joe
Askyroth,
Your ilk toss around the words "love, acceptance and respect" as though those things can cure autism. They can't. If you love your child, you use words like "DMSA, ALA and ABA" and you try to undo the brain damage that was caused by the medical profession.
If you "accept" autism, you have accepted defeat. If you accept a homosexual relationship with 500 pound hog, you need to raise your standards. Would you go to bed with that beast? Why would any sane person with less than 20 beers in them, even then? That leads us to self-"respect". Where is the self-respect here in accepting brain damage?
Kathleen would have us believe that accepting brain damage is a good decision. Evidently, we are supposed to believe that a librarian knows more about the science here than a doctor who is curing the children. In fact, she wants us to think she knows more than hundreds of doctors who are curing autism. And, she's diagnosing dead people from an era before autism existed to support her deranged agenda. You can fool some of the people....... So, Kathleen's fooling a few people but she isn't fooling anyone who's defeating the autism. How does this agenda make any sense?
Thanks for taking the bait about the 19th hole and using it for an ad hom attack. You try to include attitudes as though they have anything to do with reversing mercury poisoning. That's what Kathleen's trying to do too. She's trying to work on the doubt that parents have to convince them to quit on their kids. Curing autism is a slow process. It's frustrating and it's expensive. It would be much easier to listen to Kathleen and accept defeat.
Responsible parents don't quit on their kids like that. Those kids will wind up in asylums if they do.
This "acceptance" crap may be OK for an Aspie who can read, write, speak and toilet themselves. It's child abuse to "accept" autism and misinform the public about the scientists who are curing it.
Calli Arcale: What an amazing comment on what it is to have autism and also have the challenges of an isolated existence due to the lack of thinking by your parents. You put it so eloquently and so vividly. It reminds me of why we are lucky to possess the ability to reason, unlike some.
John Best: I think it's hilarious that you write about brain damage like it's a bad thing, yet this woman with brain damage can out reason you in my sleep.
I'll take my swiss cheese brain over the inability to reason any day.
John Best -
Your ilk toss around the words "love, acceptance and respect" as though those things can cure autism. They can't. If you love your child, you use words like "DMSA, ALA and ABA" and you try to undo the brain damage that was caused by the medical profession.
If you "accept" autism, you have accepted defeat.
My gods you are the vilest sort of son of a bitch. Seriously, fuck you.
When you accept autism, you are not accepting defeat, you are accepting who your child is and can move forward on helping them develop into a functional adult.
a-HEM.
http://autismnaturalvariation.blogspot.com/2006/03/john-bests-greatest-…
Laser Potato: Proves my point about reasoning, brain damage, and how it must suck to be him. I almost wish I could go back to my blissfully ignorant state of never having heard of John Best, Mark Geier, and all the rest who seek to harm children for profit. My world was happier, if less informed.
Mr. Worst, has some form of brain damage rendered you physically incapable of advancing an argument that does not assume its conclusion as one (or all) of its premises?
I have seen absolutely no evidence that autism can be "cured," and you have not provided any. The "treatments" you advocate have never been shown to work by any kind of rigorous standards; the "what do you mean, 'the plural of anecdote isn't data?!'" examples I've heard of their "success" are often indistinguishable from the normal progression of moderately autistic children (apparently some of you think "autism" automatically means "Persistent Vegetative State for life" in terms of social interaction and that therefore any learning or improvement is a "cure"). Let's read that again: they have not been shown to work. In the case of many therapies, no one has ever advanced a reasonable, evidentially supported model of the causes of autism that predict them to work (let alone advancing such a model that has made accurate predictions and been supported by additional evidence, thereby winning the support of the scientific community). In many other cases, the assumptions on which the therapies are based have been demonstrated to be false. Even if they did work, the point would be debatable. The fact of the matter is, so far as anyone who doesn't have a gigantic emotional or financial investment in the therapies can tell, they do not work. One of the core (albeit hidden) premises of your argument is thus invalidated.
Autism is not "brain damage," let alone the influence of chemicals on the brain that can simply be reversed by removing them. All available scientific evidence suggests that autism is, at bottom, a genetic condition; the result of unusual variants of certain alleles that control neural development, causing the autistic person's brain to set itself up and "wire" itself in a fashion that differs markedly from the typical patterns of neural connectivity and development in humans - a setup which interferes with typical development of social and interactional skills, and in some cases others. What this means is that cannot be "cured," even hypothetically, without either re-engineering the entire wiring of a person's brain at the cellular level, or finding a way to rewind development to the point of fertilization and then genetically engineering the gametes involved. This is not a problem that can be solved by the quack therapies you describe. However, it can be worked around: Applied Behavioral Analysis is a form of intensive behavioral therapy designed to teach autistic children the skills they need to cope with others and ultimately to survive in the world and achieve a meaningful degree of independence, in a way that their differently-wired brains can understand and absorb. My daughter has improved amazingly in a year and a half of this therapy, going from being completely nonverbal to using language atypically but practically, developing a number of skills that she had previously lagged behind in, and is most of the way through toilet training as regards daytime. While she still manifests the symptoms of autism, she is learning how to work around them so that they will not prevent her from having a fulfilling and productive life*; she's still markedly "weird" but her progression is such that we are fairly confident she won't even need to be in a Special Education classroom. There are other approaches to teaching autistic children these skills, whose effectiveness and methods I am less familiar with.
This is what we should be doing for autistic children. This is what love, and acceptance, and hope mean. Studying the available evidence and research to find the best way to help the child, rather than wasting time, money, and possibly the child's physical as well as emotional well-being chasing a phantom quick-fix or searching desperately for an enemy you can see without regard for the consequences of your charge against the windmills. Treating the child as a person with disabilities that are no one's fault, but which can largely be overcome with effort, patience, and the proper help, rather than as a defective product you'd return if only you could find the damned receipt. Your attempt to frame the issue as being a dilemma between "run around like a decapitated chicken throwing money at any quack who promises a cure" and "do absolutely nothing" is not only demonstrably contrafactual, it is deeply dishonest. Your hidden premise, that without having their autism "cured" (ignoring for the moment the fact that it cannot be cured), autistic children will automatically end up as "losers," is also contrafactual and dishonest.
If you really cared about the welfare of autistic children, instead of tilting at windmills, you might lobby the government to set up a financial aid program to help pay for ABA therapy. We were lucky enough to be able to relocate to one of the few school districts that will fund it, but many other parents would find it impossible to pay for.
I would suggest you review the definition of "ad hominem"; since my belief that you are a terrible human being with a freakishly shallow and selfish set of priorities is a secondary conclusion, not a premise of my argument, there is no "ad hominem" argument in use. Using the colloquial misunderstanding of "ad hominem" as meaning "any unflattering or insulting statement," then arguing that my argument is invalid on the grounds of incorporating an "ad hominem attack," is a subtle but unambiguous example of the fallacy of Equivocation, to go with the False Dilemma described above and the hybrid Appeal to Emotion/Appeal to Prejudice fallacy in your "fat chick" comments. Of course, your entire argument is ultimately founded on Wishful Thinking...
*I assume "a productive and fulfilling life" is what you're intending as contrast to your comments about being overweight and having an overweight partner. While I would certainly agree that being morbidly obese is undesirable for psychological, practical, and health reasons, the fact that your prejudice is such that you see this, rather than anything, you know, substantive or meaningful with regards to behavior or character, as the epitome of "loser" is both absurd and bigoted. You might as well caution parents that "if you don't cure your children's autism they'll grow up to marry a Muslim or Jew."
http://autismnaturalvariation.blogspot.com/2006/03/john-bests-greatest-…
One of the most useful things I've ever done online, almost 2 years ago exactly; still cited whenever John shows up.
I would add the comment about 500 pound women, personally.
Liesl,
If you can outreason me, predict the winners at Gulfstream Park tomorrow. It's all just reasoning so it should be easy for you.
Joseph,
You still fail to see that reasonable people don't have any problem with those out of context gibes I gave you.
Askyroth,
Let's see you sleep with the 500 pound woman and tell us all how enjoyable it was.
Azkyroth - bravo.
Most of the last long and eloquent post deserve a permanent home on a blog somewhere. Perhaps Neurodiversity.com could oblige?
I would, however, cut the bits referring to John Worst. Leave the man to stew in his own bile. He is not worth spending even a sentence of your scorn on, no matter how richly deserved.
Thanks, and I'm certainly fine with that. (It should be credited to Alex Weaver rather than my handle, though :).
After reading a bit more of the man's positions (see Joseph's link), I'm inclined to agree. I could edit it a bit to improve it for posting and to address the issue more broadly if anyone's interested.
Thanks for taking the bait about the 19th hole and using it for an ad hom attack. You try to include attitudes as though they have anything to do with reversing mercury poisoning.
Oh wait, we're back to mercury poisoning? I thought you folks had moved the goalposts away from Mercury and to some other made up reason with vaccines?
Mercury in Vaccines causing autism is so 2006. Get with the program(s).
Bah, botched the blockquote tag there. First section is obviously from Mr. Worst
One more thought, actually, Mr. Worst: for someone who seems to place such a premium on being seen to be contemptuous of overweight females, you really seem to spend a surprising amount of time thinking about them, especially in a sexual context...
(I'll refrain from making explicit comparisons to homophobes who are ultimately outed, IE Ted Haggard.)
(...oops.)
[You still fail to see that reasonable people don't have any problem with those out of context gibes I gave you.]
I'm afraid to see the sort of context in which those comments would be APPROPRIATE.
That said, please show us the original context for these quotes:
[The normal people who find that stuff disgusting aren't homophobes. They're what sane people call normal.]
[Some "brilliant" goofball coined the term "Homophobia" in a pathetic attempt to bring some small measure of respectability to a perversion. Fortunately for me, I grew up in an era when people were not subjected to public acceptance of sexual perversion. I never "stomped" a queer and I don't approve of that behavior. I also don't want to have to hear about this nonsense portrayed as anything near normalcy.
It has nothing to do with fear which means there is no phobia.]
[Celebrate their differences, LOL. How many parents do you think are that stoned that they would buy into something so absurd?]
[ It doesn't matter to them that that "different wiring" will cost taxpayers in the neighborhood of $5 million per person for these people who will never be able to hold a job.]
[Since we didn't have any adult autistics until the 50's, I think we'd be fine without them. Maybe without them, we could start making good cars again.]
[The whole world recognizes that autism is not a normal existence except for a few freaks from Neurodiversity. That makes it abnormal.]
[If your uncle wasn't diagnosed until the 1960's, it was probably early Alzheimer's from the mercury he had accumulated.]
[Autism was invented in 1931 by Eli Lilly.]
[What you consider peer reviewed research is actually drug company propaganda that is reviewed by drug company shills who are engaged in a coverup. It's pure bullshit and you know it.]
[Chimps are not related to humans. Darwin was wrong.]
[I saw no need to test for mercury. The improvement from chelation was all the proof I needed.] Circular reasoning a go-go!
Laser Potato,
That's a good start to learning. Now write these quotes 99 more times so you can acquire a little common sense through ROTE learning.
Azkyroth,
Overweight females are much different than grotesquely obese ones. Some might call your words moving the goalposts.
Talk is cheap. GIVE US THE CONTEXT OF THE QUOTES, DAMMIT.
Oh, and John Beast....
as an "Aspie" with a B+ in college-level precalc and posessing an IQ of 150, I say sincerely, from the bottom of my heart...
FUCK YOU!!!
[It doesn't matter to them that that "different wiring" will cost taxpayers in the neighborhood of $5 million per person for these people who will never be able to hold a job.]
I'm sure the millions of people with Aspberger's who currently *ARE* holding a job would disagree with you on that point there. Whoops, silly me. If you haven't seen them, they don't exist. Also, my brother Charlie (who also has Aspberger's) has been holding the same job (he's a garbage collector) for over 8 years and he performs better than anyone else on his crew.
[Chimps are not related to humans. Darwin was wrong.]
So you're a Creationist/IDiot too? Oh, that's just ducky.
Azkyroth -
If you don't mind, I would very much like to post most of that comment on my own blog, possibly the whole thing. I don't blog much about autism specifically, but I do talk about neurodiversity, mostly because of both mine and my son's ADHD.
Laser Potato,
I see you used all of your 150 IQ to come up with a good insult. I don't think I can top that.
You'll have to ask Joseph to give you the context that he dug those quotes up from.
I'm discussing autism, not Asperger's but, if you chelate your brother, he may be able to work his way up from garbage collector to trash collector.
When you croak, God might explain to you why creationists are correct. You may want to rethink calling God an idiot.
Looky, Johnny's shifting the burden of proof. Can't say I'm surprised.
[When you croak, God might explain to you why creationists are correct. You may want to rethink calling God an idiot.]
That assumes God exists in the first place. Or can you prove it? (Of course you won't; you'll just shift the burden of proof again and quote mine till the cows come home.)
John Best,
What's with the fat woman fetish? Am I missing something? Can I draw conclusions about your mother's eating habits based on all this? This is my first visit here, and I don't know anything about you--except that there's obviously something seriously something wrong with you...
DuWayne: feel free to; see the attribution note above (Alex Weaver). ^.^
Laser,
Why don't you cut yourself so you bleed to death on a Friday and then rise from the dead on Sunday like God did? When you come back to life, I'll believe that someone other than God could have done that.
While you're at it, please take a rib out of some guy and turn it into a Pamela Anderson with a brain for me, will you? Thanks in advance.
John Best said: "That's what Kathleen's trying to do too. She's trying to work on the doubt that parents have to convince them to quit on their kids. Curing autism is a slow process. It's frustrating and it's expensive. It would be much easier to listen to Kathleen and accept defeat.
Responsible parents don't quit on their kids like that. Those kids will wind up in asylums if they do."
No John, it is you who have quit on your kid. You quit the moment you latched on to the idea that your kid became autistic from exposure to the miniscule quantity of thimerosal that was once used in some vaccines.
The mercury hypothesis by itself is incredibly narrow in focus, yours even more so. Thimerosal in vaccines, and only thimerosal in vaccines, is the sole culprit for every single case of autism. That's exactly what you have stated elsewhere so don't bother backpedaling out of that position.
So entrenched are you in your beliefs that you oppose any and all research, opinion or intervention that doesn't fit the hypothesis.
You have been chelating that poor boy for several years and his progress has been no greater than many autistic children, possibly worse. You have a non-verbal child with a father who forces unproven and untested drugs on him while he desperately and futilely tries to communicate his distress through the only means available. Self injury.
Christ, anyone who reads your comments wants to bite their own hands and bang their head on the wall.
How many years have you been talking about placing Sam in an institution if the chelation doesn't work? Sounds like you gave up a long time ago to me.
If Sam could talk I doubt very much that he'd be thanking Cliff Shoemaker, or you for that matter, for anything.
For anyone who's interested, I reformatted the comment as a general letter on the topic rather than a specific response to John Worst. Copying and pasting the text should be fine HTMLwise.
PS: I'm also soliciting advice from people other than John Worst on starting a blog of my own.
Notmercury,
You don't have a clue. You'll berate anyone to promote your deranged agenda. You have no clue what my son was like before chelation or what he is like now. Thimerosal may well be the sole cause of autism. It may weaken the system to set it up to be further screwed up by the MMR. It may have been the thing that set off the mitichondrial problems in the Poling child. You don't know.
All I can tell you with certainty is that I had a normal child at birth. At 10 months, he began to disappear. At age 8, with chelation, he began to reappear. Whether all of the damage can be undone, I don't have that answer. I can't afford all of the treatments that might help him.
What I can say with certainty is that all of the obsolete therapies that were tried with him from age one to age 8 were 100% useless. ABA and other junk is useless with the lowest functioning kids who will not respond to anything. ABA might be useful now and we are looking into that.
I realize you try to tell me I quit on my kid to bait me. Parents who quit on their kids listen to junk that's touted by Neurodiversity where they come to believe that the kids were born autistic and can only progress so far, similar to Downs Syndrome. That's utter bullshit and you know it. You're just trying to abet the lies of a medical profession that has been lying to us about autism for a long time. You're a scumbag for lying to those uneducated parents who you might be able to fool. That's why Kathleen needs to be quieted too.
Alex: I think you're a great writer and I'd love to see you start a blog. We need all the reasoned thinking we can get.
"When you come back to life, I'll believe that someone other than God could have done that." Stop mixing Jesus and stupid, if there is a supreme being he's gone be pretty pissed with you using his name, at all never mind in vain.
Be very very glad that none of us actually have these mystical power you found in a bible studies coloring book. (I doubt you have the attention span to read the real thing but might get the coloring book out and find false witness, god hates that.) If any of us had said skills two things would happen, suffering would end and you'd get smited in the most graphic and creative way.
P.S. Glad to hear you got a Dishonorable my faith in the Army has been restored. Finding out you were an officer kind of damaged it for me.
"When you come back to life, I'll believe that someone other than God could have done that." Stop mixing Jesus and stupid, if there is a supreme being he's gone be pretty pissed with you using his name, at all never mind in vain.
Be very very glad that none of us actually have these mystical power you found in a bible studies coloring book. (I doubt you have the attention span to read the real thing but might get the coloring book out and find false witness, god hates that.) If any of us had said skills two things would happen, suffering would end and you'd get smited in the most graphic and creative way.
P.S. Glad to hear you got a Dishonorable my faith in the Army has been restored. Finding out you were an officer kind of damaged it for me.
Now John, why all of this new found doubt? You've always stated with absolute certainty that it's the thimerosal, and only the thimerosal. Not a complex chain of events that may or may not have involved thimerosal.
Has your faith been shaken or is this simply your way of announcing that you will be changing your story and joining those other parents on the mitochondrial bandwagon?
You might be able to afford more if you hadn't blown all that money at the track. Now I guess you'll just have to wait for that big vaccine paycheck.
Vlad,
I have an honorable discharge. I was not in the Army. Some neuronitwit just made that up.
NM,
What doubt? What blown money? Why waste my time talking to you?
Still not giving us the context for those quotes, eh Mr. I-Refuse-To-Take-Responsibility-For-My-Actions?
notmercury wrote "Now John, why all of this new found doubt?"
I first read that as "why all of this now found dumb"!
Alex/Azkyroth
I would think most average bloggers (excluding the "pros" at Scienceblogs) would say just get on over to Wordpress or Blogger (your choice) and get typing. The basic templates (for you to choose how it will look) are supplied. Personally I mostly type in Word and then simply cut'n' paste into the "Write post" box in Wordpress. Doing it that way is a little clunky but avoids having to learn HTML.. too old and mentally sclerotic for that myself. If I ever do need real HTML crunching I'm planning to hire one of my teenage nieces to do it for me.
IMHO the words are what count... and the post above would make a great start.
I'm pretty sure John Beast will defend his homophobic comments to the death, too.
"Homosexuality is wrong because...BECAUSE I SAID SO!!!" is what they all seem to boil down to. Come to think of it, EVERY comment he makes boils down to "this is true, because I say so!" He could claim the sky was pink with green polka dots and you couldn't convince him otherwise.
Mr Potato Head,
It seems you nutjobs are more concerned with attacking me than defnding Kathleen. The latter task must be too difficult.
Excellent letter alex.
It should be published far and wide.
It should be posted at Jabs and count how many micro-seconds before it is deleted.
I have basic HTML competency, so that's not an issue. Wordpress seems the attractive option, since I inadvertently discovered that <blockquote> isn't among the allowed HTML tags for Blogger (or is that blog-specific?). I'll take a look.
John Best: "I can't afford all of the treatments that might help him."
I'm not sure but I think you are trying tell us that money is the limiting factor to keep you from subjecting your son to even crazier shit like Lupron injections. In that case I'm glad you squander your money on golf, booze, hookers, and horseracing.
What about your friend, and fellow Rescue Angel, JB Handley? Can't he help you with the more expensive quackery? After all, he's offered to fly kids in from overseas for appointments with DAN! doctors. He's made Rashid Buttar a few mill and he's spared no expense in fixing his own child, going on 3 years now. Money's no object for JB, apparently, since he thinks nothing of dropping a 1/4 million on a phone survey or newspaper ads.
btw, have you shared your homophobic views with David Kirby or has he done the sensible thing and asked for a restraining order?
NM,
I don't drink or use hookers. I usually make money by playing golf and wagering on horses. I'm also not homophobic since there is no such thing as homophobia. I'm not a Rescue Angel either.
"there is no such thing as homophobia."
O RLY?
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_fuel.htm
Also, try looking at this. Of course, you'll just think it's gay propoganda or something...
http://www3.sympatico.ca/ross.fraser/Richard8.htm
Mr Potato Head,
I glanced at your links but I thought I'd puke so I didn't read them. I'd rather support that radio host in New Jersey who was advising parents to beat the hell out of an elementary school principal who was forcing kids to read books about queers.
I think anyone who uses the word "homophobia" is a screwball. They all should have stayed in the closet where they belong. Normal people don't want to hear about their perverse behavior.
Laser: You can not show that Best is a homophobe because hatred is a feeling. You can not (unless your a raving lunatic like Best) define how someone feels accurately, especially if they refuse to acknowledge it. Also as he sees gays and lesbians as subhuman he can not (in his damaged mind) hate gay people because they are not actually people as far as he's concerned. So from his perspective he is not homophobic or mysogonistic because gays are not people and women should of course bow to his ever thought cause he knows better. Any women that dares to imagine that she might know something the great Best doesn't (or disagrees with him) must insane by default.
In other words, he either lost the house, car, and dog in a bitter, acrimonious divorce from reality, or he's a Ted Haggard type who's so deep in the closet he's fused with the drywall.
"In other words, he either lost the house, car, and dog in a bitter, acrimonious divorce from reality, or he's a Ted Haggard type who's so deep in the closet he's fused with the drywall."
Judging by his above comment that's just been unscreened, I'd say it's the former.
*looks up the legal definition of "incitement to criminal activity"*
Ignoring the scum sucking bigot, trying anyways.
Azkyroth -
I love blogger, but that is more because everything else I do online is through google. Some people might prefer the allegedly* more user friendly wordpress, over my strange brand loyalty, but you don't have to. Unless your one of them.
*Because I refuse to even check it out. Disloyalty and all. It works though, no one can prove that wordpress is better that way.
(I really didn't intend for this to be AS obscene as it got, but Ol' Bester is just such a fertile pile...and when you have a machine gun, and you see a blimp in a headwind...sometimes, the evil just comes out.)
Not nearly as well as you not knowing the difference between slander and libel shows yours. Here's a hint..libel from liber.
Yeah! John Best's kids are only allowed to bang HOT lesbians!
Dude, what are you, 12? Wait, lemme guess, you say this to your SO: "Honey, you're getting a little chubby there. Better start puking again, John Best doesn't date Jabba the Hutt". Man, I bet you have to beat off with a stick.
er...beat the women off with a stick. Yeah, that's it.
So you're upset that she's getting more poontang than you are? Maybe you should go back to roofies, 'cause 'sanctimonious dumbass' doesn't seem to be working.
And you're just a little obsessed with morbidly obese lesbians. Got something in the porn stash you aren't telling the wife about? Better hope she doesn't find out why you keep pushing the twinkies on her.
I dunno, I bet her ass smells better than yours, although I do acknowledge your superior fellatio abilities. Just look at all the mercury militia cock you continually suck. I bet the boys down at the Blue Oyster Bar LOVE you.
John Best Goalpost Movers Inc. Got an argument, but no real point or logic behind it other than "The Voices In My Head Tell Me To Say Stupid Shit"? Don't flounder about trying to argue! Hire the Experts at John Best Goalpost Movers! We'll help you change your point every other sentence. It's impossible to use silly things like logic and proof when you can't nail down the argument, and remember, if they give up in disgust, YOU WIN! John Best Goalpost Movers...Victory Through Stupidity!"
You do know that "chelate" is not a synonym for "fellate", right? Oh, and incest is bad. Remember that.
"God, why are your followers such fucking idiots?"
"Dude, you think I know? I gave them all the same starting points as you, but you know, stupid is as stupid does."
"Wait, that was YOUR line?"
"Yep. I'm rather proud of that one, it works in so many situations. Seriously, guys like Best are just fucktards. It's a random function I left in just for the hell of it. It's SERIOUSLY funny sometimes."
Bah, like that's hard. Women bleed for DAYS every month and don't die. Jesus was doing it wrong.
She'd still turn you down. Stalking: just say no.
OOOH! OOOH! PICK ME MR. KOTTER, PICK ME!
The correct answer is:
"The son of a complete dingaling"
Some things, even chelation can't cure.
What, he's the reincarnation of Doug Henning?
First, ze neurodiverrrrsity pipplez,(John) und zen ze fat chicks,(John! und zen ze homos,(JOHN!) und..STOP CHANNELING HITLER AGAIN JOHN! I told you, you'll go blind if you don't stop that shit.
No, no John, you got it wrong again..."genital", not "honorable". There's a difference.
In order:
That you're not a nitwit
The money you earn down on the docks on payday
Too Late!
But those were 90% of your sales!
Remember, when John Best talks about homophobia and screwballs, he's an expert!
I know, I know don't sink to his level, but honestly, It's a lot of fun. Again, sorry for the relentless um...mental imagery, but John Best is used to being the...um...best at such things, and really, he's astoundingly bad at it. I mean, when it comes to being a foulmouthed SOB, he sucks that that too.
Being Best at sucking is a lonely road, but he'll walk it proudly.