Let's review.
Once upon a time, according to anti-vaccine zealots, the MMR vaccine caused autism. Soon after that, the explanation morphed. No, it wasn't so much the MMR that caused autism; rather, it was the mercury in the thimerosal preservative that used to be in several childhood vaccines in the U.S. until the end of 2001. Then, as evidence accumulated exonerating mercury in vaccines as a cause of autism, it became the "toxins." (Antifreeze, formaldehyde, and human fetal parts, oh my!) Finally, it became "too many too soon."
And the anti-vaccine movement rested, because its latest excuse was good. It was vague and very difficult to falsify.
But even "too many too soon" is no longer enough. Now, according to a press release I received in my e-mail, it's:
Press ReleaseParents of autistic children shed light on controversial vaccinations in new book
Michael J. Dochniak and Denise H. Dunn's new book calls for removal of allergy-inducing rubber latex from vaccination packaging to minimize cases of autism
MINNEAPOLIS (MMD Newswire) May 10, 2011 -- Autism is on the rise, and the latex rubber often used in vaccine packaging and delivery systems may be one of the causes say authors Michael J. Dochniak and Denise H. Dunn in "Vaccine Delivery and Autism (The Latex Connection)" (ISBN 1456570056). Autism Speaks, the nation's largest autism science and advocacy organization, estimates that doctors diagnose the disorder in about one in 110 American children. These scary statistics highlight a condition now more prevalent in children than cancer, juvenile diabetes and pediatric AIDs combined. While researchers have not pinpointed the cause of autism, many find that atypical immunity plays a role.
Dochniak and Dunn began investigating the relationship between vaccinations and autism after Dochniak's son was diagnosed and Dunn's son developed unusual behaviors following a routine vaccination. This book collects their research on how allergens found in a natural rubber used in the transportation of vaccines are increasing the chances of autism development.
Hevea brasiliensis dry natural rubber (HDNR), derived from the liquid latex found in natural rubber trees, is still used in some vaccine packaging and delivery systems. The authors explain how the naturally occurring proteins found in latex rubber, which are also responsible for latex allergies, can affect the occurrence of allergy-induced regressive autism once one has been exposed to HDNR.
"The increasing prevalence of allergy-induced regressive autism doesn't have to be the inevitable result of immunization," Dochniak says. "If vaccination manufacturers and providers start to reduce their use of HDNR, we will see a dramatic reduction of allergy-induced cases."
Because vaccinations are required by most states for schooling, the topic has proven controversial among parents, scientists and medical providers. Dochniak and Dunn aim to provide more awareness of a potential cause for the disorder that threatens more and more children each year.
"Vaccine Delivery and Autism (The Latex Connection)" is available for sale online at Amazon.com and other channels.
About the Authors:
Michael J. Dochniak and Denise H. Dunn are leading experts in the etiology of allergy-induced regressive autism and have previously authored a book for Nova Science, entitled "Allergies and Autism." Dochniak is a scientific researcher in the field of Hevea brasiliensis natural-latex induced autism. Dunn is an early childhood educator who works closely with autistic children and adults, and has been teaching for more than 15 years.
MEDIA CONTACT:
Michael J. Dochniak
Email: mdochniak@yahoo.com
Phone: (612) 836-8237
Website: www.amazon.com/Michael-J.-Dochniak/e/B002P9CA2K
www.amazon.com/Denise-H.-Dunn/e/B0037LGJP4
REVIEW COPIES AND INTERVIEWS AVAILABLE
###
The views and opinions expressed in this press release do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of CreateSpace or its affiliates.----
This press release distributed by Mass Media Distribution LLC, 3350 Riverwood Pkwy Suite 1900, Atlanta, Georgia 30339 USA. If you no longer wish to receive press releases or news from our service, please respond to this email and let us know.
That's right. According to anti-vaccine zealots, now it's the packaging and delivery systems used for vaccines that cause autism. It never ends. It never will end.
Because, to the anti-vaccine, first and foremost, it's always about the vaccines. Always. No matter what the evidence shows. Never forget that.
I herd autizm was korzed bai pashmina?
Hi Lawrence, never a dull moment in lala land.
I was happy just to post under one name. Remember I got banned for link morphing and metastizing across threads? If I promise not to do it again, may I be allowed some human status please?
I read though this and its just the same shit now i happen to have tried to read the book and it does suck but what you all say is not in it is in it so stop bitching read the book then actually think of something new to put on this blog!
YES ALL OF YOU SHUT UP AUTISM IS CAUSE BY LATEX HOW DO I KNOW THIS CAUSE IM GOD NOW STOP BEING DUMBASSES
FUCKYOUALL is gonna kill you all with my awe autism powers and god go suck a dick u cause autism cause i fuck you all especially your wives and daughters.
I love being a smart-ass its the whole reason I stay on this waiting for someone to mess up it helps me feel better about myself
Prometheus
So i guess Orac will just have to frown upon me.
Damn couldn't find the troll repellent but i found my 12 gauge shotgun guess that will do im ready Dan whenever you want a fight I've been looking hard for someone to finally want one.
no im not with Mr. Dochniak and if im making him look bad then too bad i dont care. im just here to fuck with all of you for the fun of it.
But on other terms anyone know a good site for porn.
Good night everyone my husband has a surprise for me!
Sleep tight do you think we could ever threesome.:)
Chris
Can anyone buy my book though. im in the same situation.
its called im a little dumbfuck.
Well that does it every body vaccines can cause autism my proof, the show that never lies SOUTH PARK says so. if you don't believe me go to southparkstudios.com and watch the episode ass-burgers.
They wrote a book on it?
Uh...okay. That's a new one. I'm a bit at a loss as to what to say, other than seriously?
Rats, the comments dropped out my
***jaw drop***
Who are the leading experts they are referring to who claim immunity issues cause autism?
They have officially lost their flippin' minds. Do they have ANY CLUE how many things latex is in? How unbelievably tiny a fraction of such exposure vaccination could possibly represent?
My mom happens to have a significant (real) latex allergy and the lifestyle changes latex avoidance requires are profound. It's MAJOR news when she manages to find a clothing brand which doesn't use latex - and then she has to stock up because they may not last and she won't be able to buy more clothes for multiple years.
Latex? Latex?! Seriously?
Dude. Either they have no idea how ubiquitous latex is or they *do* know and appreciate that this makes their theory conveniently difficult for individuals to test. It'll also feed nicely into the people who've been trying the GFCF diet, eliminating colorings, eliminating preservatives, going organic, etc. But then, if they're jumping on the "environmental toxins" bandwagon, why focus on vaccines, which are a trivial exposure? Because of the injection, I suppose, which of course makes anything a zillion jillion times more harmful.
Well, it's gotta be the latex in vaccine packaging that causes autism.
Further proof: Latex gloves used to be in wide use in hospitals (including newborn nurseries and pediatric wards), but in recent years have started to be phased out because of latex allergies (mostly a problem for staff). And of course reported cases of autism/autism spectrum disorders have declined paralleling the drop in use of latex gloves, and...wait a minute...
Nevermind.
Obviously it's the dihydrogen monoxide, hydrogen hydroxide, oxygen dihydride, diprotium monoxide, or protium hydroxide in the vaccines. Nasty chemicals, all of them.
Here's his paper
"Dochniak MJ, Autism spectrum disorders â Exogenous protein insult, Med Hypotheses (2007), Volume 69, Issue 3, Pages 545-549. (Note: The costs of publication of the Med. Hypotheses article were defrayed in part by the payment of page charges. This article must therefore be hereby marked advertisement in accordance with 18 U.S.C.Section 1734 solely to indicate this fact.)"
http://replay.web.archive.org/20090402065704/http://www.autismdoc.org/
Next: Autism is caused by the presence of medical diplomas, specifically from accredited universities, hanging on the office walls of the doctor administering the vaccines. After all, how many cases of autism have been traced back to vaccine injections administered by homeopaths, naturopaths, accupuncturists, etc?
These people are nuts. They are absolutely not interacting with this plane of reality. Madder than a hatter, madder than a March hare, completely batshit insane. (My apologies to all the people with real mental diseases and disorders, you do not deserve to be lumped in with these persons, but my language is lacking.)
Darnit, when will you shills for Big Latex stop covering up the truth?!!!1!!
@6, @7 - It's homeopathic - the ubiquitous latex isn't the problem, because there's so much of it! The infinitesimal quantity that the vaccine gets exposed to makes it more potent! And if they removed all the latex, everyone would be autistic!
"Dochniak is a scientific researcher in the field of Hevea brasiliensis natural-latex induced autism."
Wait, there's a whole field? No way. I wanted to kow his qualifications and so I clicked on his link for Amazon. It all became crystal clear:
"In a 'Medical Hypotheses' (2007) paper entitled 'Autism spectrum disorders - Exogenous protein insult', he describes how the allergenic proteins in Hevea-brasiliensis natural rubber can cause allergy-induced regressive autism."
Dude, my next door neighbor could get an article published in Medical Hypotheses!
Shame there's no an Olympic event for goalpost-shifting.
Guess my link is holding my comment in moderation.... Until it shows up.. he published in Medical Hypotheses in 2007, Google: "Autism Spectrum Disorders - Exogenous Protein Insult (Hev-b)"
I am not often at a loss...but....ummmm. Are they purposely trying to get laughed at and further marginalized?
I have a funny coincidental anecdote: my only biological child that doesn't have an ASD gets hives when she is in contact with latex (band-aids, gloves, balloons etc...). Why isn't she autistic?
Was this the big news?
That brings up an interesting question. Ben Goldacre got his dead cat certified as a nutritionist. Perhaps an MH article is next!
So that's why all those guys I screwed in college never called, they became autistic. Phew.
"and the latex rubber often used in vaccine packaging and delivery systems"
And, how much contact does a sterile vaccine have with this latex? Have either of these guys heard of dose/response?
The hypothesis reminds me of a Martini recipe I once used: "Gin over crushed ice, shaken in a room containing a bottle of Vermouth."
umm,
what?
Is anyone else really flipping tired of the "scary statistics" of 1 in 110? You know what has an almost identical prevalence rate? Schizophrenia. And I have NEVER seen scare mongering about the "epidemic" of schizophrenia.
@ Kristen: Cleveland Childrens.org (Cleveland Children's Hospital) has some great articles on children's allergies including allergy to latex. Latex can be found in baby bottle nipples, disposable diapers, children's toys including bath "float" toys and many other items that kids are exposed to in their environment. In addition, there may be a cross reactivity to certain fruits (bananas) when a child has a latex allergy.
On Dochniak's website (describing his two-year-old's ER visit)....."Before leaving the hospital a doctor recommended that a nebulizer be used at home to relieve any recurrent asthmatic symptoms". Huh? Didn't Dochniak just describe an anaphylaxis episode? The ER doctor would have prescribed an EpiPen with instructions to fill the prescription immediately.
Too dumb even, to frame the anecdotal episode in a cogent manner...so that we might believe that his child has a latex allergy.
"and the latex rubber often used in vaccine packaging and delivery systems"
Is it actually used any more with vaccines? From my limited experience* I associate the latex seal with multi-dose packaging, which for vaccines were replaced with the more-expensive single-dose packages (as part of the shift away from a mercury-based preservative).
Blaming autism on latex exposure is weird. Blaming it on the tiny subset of latex exposure involved in vaccination, rather than the exposure in the rest of a child's life -- purely to retain the VACCINES = EVIL position -- is raising the weirdness to a level hitherto unseen.
Also, please stop talking about "Big Latex", it is making me all hot & bothered.
* I.e. watching old movies.
"And I have NEVER seen scare mongering about the "epidemic" of schizophrenia"
No, they use 'pot causes schizophrenia' scare mongering instead. Do we have the 2009 Keele study handy? Have we had pot? Have we had schizophrenia? Are we qualified. I use the term 'we' dissociatively, of course.
Hopefully Clear UK and ReThink will be addressing this abuse of science, pot, and schizophrenics sooner rather than later.
Everyone is. But it's only going to get worse; cnn.com had a story yesterday about some Korean researchers who did a more detailed study of a group of Korean kids and discovered an ASD incidence of 1 in 38! (That's 38 with emphasis, not 38-factorial, wise guys.)
@ herr doktor bimler: The information about latex packaging (syringe plungers, vaccine vials) can be found at:
Pink Book General Recommendations On Immunization (Chapter 2)
On top of pg, 11 (of 22 pages) "Only one report of an allergic reaction after administration of hepatitis B vaccine in a known severe allergy (anaphylaxis) to latex has ever been published".
BTW, Where I worked at a county health department, where nurses and doctors administered tens of thousands vaccines to children and adults, none of the vaccine administrators ever had to break into the epinephrine ampules and administer a shot for a severe allergic reaction...from a vaccine or from latex contained in vaccine vial ports or in syringe plungers; we simply tossed the ampules and replaced them with new (unexpired date) epinephrine ampules.
And I thought I was the only leading expert in the etiology of allergy-induced regressive autism.
I guess I should have trademarked it.
Here's the truly funny part about this.
About a decade (or more) ago, the pharmaceutical companies, recognising the rise in latex allergies, started using latex-free stoppers in their vaccines (and other medications using stoppered vials). Not all vaccines come in latex-free vials, but the number of latex-free vials has gone from zero 20 years ago (before the start of the "autism epidemic") to the present where almost every chldhood vaccine is available in a latex-free container (note: the single-use syringes are almost all latex-free, the vials less so).
Of course, during the time that latex-free vial stoppers and single-use syringes (not to mention examination gloves, party balloons, toys etc.) have gone from zero to commonplace, the prevalence of autism (as reported by educational and other administrative sources) has....well, it's actually gone up, hasn't it?
That doesn't make sense...if latex exposure in vaccines is the cause of autism, then why would the prevalence be going up as the exposure to latex is going down?
One possible explanation would be that autism isn't caused by latex and that Dochniak and Dunn are barking mad. In fact, that's just about the only reasonable explanation.
Interesting point: Mr. Dochniak's LinkdIn profile (which I assume he wrote) lists his qualifications as a BS in "psychology/chemistry" (1985) and his work experience as "technical consultant" at Jasmine Elastomerics and Menelaus Technologies (which supplies baled natural rubber)and owner/co-founder (an article he wrote lists him as CTO) of Mallard Adhesives, which is apparently a consulting/design firm (the website hs been "under construction" since 2008).
I see nothing (apart from a BS in psychology) that indicates he has the slightest qualification to discuss the etiology of autism. As I mention above, his hypothesis doesn't even make superficial sense.
What next? Will someone be claiming that the ink on the vaccine vials causes autism?
It seems that the loons will not rest until they find something in/on/around vaccines that causes autism. Despite their monomania on the subject, data supporting their dogma has remained elusive (like El Dorado, often described but never seen).
Prometheus
Also, please stop talking about "Big Latex", it is making me all hot & bothered.
Herr doktor - I think you need to self-prescribe a nice cold shower...
But wait, wait, that cannot be. It's NATURAL rubber. And natural is safe!!!
[/parody]
The "epidemic" that I've noticed since I was growing up 50 years ago, is the enormous increase in allergiesâlife-threatening toxic-shock-type allergies, I mean. (I had asthma pretty bad as a kid and was allergic to a metric fuckton of stuff, so I'm aware allergies were prevalent then.)
As a kid, I never heard of anybody being allergic to peanuts or strawberries or shellfish, or any of the myriad things people are allergic to nowadays, when it seems like 3/4 of the people I meet have some sort of really dangerous reaction to some very common substance. My girlfriend has a weird one--we finally figured out it was Annatto. Not really dangerous, but having a violent five-minute sneezing fit half an hour after eating cheddar cheese is kind of a strange thing.
I suppose some nut has suggested that this enormous increase in allergies has been caused by vaccinesâwhat haven't they suggested is caused by vaccines? My point is that this is a real "epidemic" that I would be worried about, not an imaginary increase in some ill-defined mental condition that simply is used as a catch-all term for more and more different things and thus diagnosed much more often. There were a lot of weird kids in my school, and a lot weirder kids we never saw because they were institutionalized. Then Reagan emptied the mental hospitals out onto the street and everybody saw them. I don't think there has been any real increase in "autism", but believe me, if anybody in my cohort within a hundred miles had eaten a strawberry and keeled over dead, I would have heard about it!
There was a comment on the thread covering the association with recommended vaccine number and infant death that pointed out that in the case of very premature infants they don't give the HepB dose right away, but wait until the infant is bigger, so very premature infants would die before getting the vaccine. That just shows how deadly those vaccines are, they kill premature infants even before they get them!
But wait, even pharma shill ghouls don't inject vaccines into dead infants. It must be quantum spill-over from parallel universes where those infants survived and then were vaccinated that is killing those infants!
But if vaccines in parallel universes are enough to cause infant deaths via quantum spill-over, then surely vaccines in parallel universes are enough to cause autism too.
That is why the mercury that is causing autism can't be found and why chelation does absolutely nothing to cure autism. It is the mercury that is still being used in a parallel universe that is causing autism in this universe. It is children in the parallel universe that need to be chelated!
Using non-latex rubber in the seals of vaccine vials will do nothing to stop latex from causing autism. It is latex in parallel universes that is causing autism in this universe.
That is why science can't prove these things! Science is useless for proving what is happening in parallel universes and how those parallel universes are affecting us.
On the other hand, according to The Secret, if you think very strongly that something will happen, then the thing you are thinking about does happen. It is all the anti-vax people that are responsible for the autism epidemic. They are very strongly thinking that autism is going up, that vaccines cause autism, and so, autism is going up and vaccines cause autism, whether they actually use vaccines or not!
I'm not sure how this persists. This is something I'll never understand.
Prometheus @28
Isn't that a requirement for being published in Medical Hypothesis?
I assume "psychology/chemistry" involves the copious consumption of psychoactive chemicals. The BS is an inevitable side effect.
Orac - please go easy with the insolence when Medical Hypothesis publishes my paper linking fracing* (especially multi fracing horizontal wells) with autism.
*"fracing" not "fracking" is the correct spelling since the the verb frac is an abbreviation for hydraulic fracturing.
MA @ 34:
Ahhh, but then Neil Craig will pop up to accuse you of being an eco-fascist or eco-Nazi or maybe an eco-Bin Laden and add to his #:nil count of arguments he imagines he has won.
I remember at least one anti-vaxxer saying that allergies didn't exist before vaccines.
I wish antivaxxers would just come right out and say what's REALLY bothering them: "TEH NEEDLEZ IZ SCARYYYYYYYY!!!!"
Nah, allergies and autism are caused by the same thing, not latex but being too clean.
http://books.google.com/books?id=a3mwmXzpsjkC&lpg=PP1&pg=PA103#v=onepag…
I can kind of believe the "too clean" theory--except we baby-boomers were practically raised in bubbles compared to any previous generation, so you'd think we'd be the ones poleaxed by peanut butter. Maybe when baby-boomer mothers went on to have kids their immune systems were subtly defective and couldn't protect the fetus the way they were supposed to?
The difference is, if you want wild speculation from me, you don't have to pay for it.
more autism causation woo
The vaccines the parents received
Too much prenatal ultrasound
Vitamin something underdose
etc.
Seriously?
Seriously?!
Is there nothing they won't blame?
Is there nothing they won't blame?
Do you mean the transgenerational effect of vaccines? Yah, that's common as dirt. I haven't quite figured out the "religious" objections to PKU testing, though.
One of the worst effects of these insane conspiracies and unsupported graspings is that it detracts from real efforts to help those with autism and often siphons money away from legitimate research.
I know it's not April 1, but Orac must be joking about this *clicks on Amazon link*
...
He's not. Oh, sweet lord, this is happening. Someone is actually blaming latex for... so, out of idle interest, does this mean that nearly every person who has used contraception is now at risk, or am I taking the lunatic idiocy a little too far there? I only ask because morbid curiosity is compelling me to find out exactly how far this goes.
If the "Autism Epedemic" coincides with the decline in the use of latex it is obviois that the latex was protecting the kids and the lack of latex is causing the autism.
Just saying. Seriously the anti-vaxers always come up with new stuff.
They may have a point. There is latex in condoms; when the parents conceive, the ejaculant is caught in the latex barrier which then would indeed affect the sperm travelling to the... oh no, wait. Not that. Carry on.
@daedalus4u (#33): I LOL'd. What a wonderful, snarky comment. (I realize I've been away for a while due to personal issues, but when did your "2" become a "4"? Or have I been crazy..which is always possible..)
Thank you for the information Lilady. I'll go read the article you suggested.
cordialdestruction @8
And that's why homeopathy can help!
If it causes symptoms in healthy people, it will cure them in sick people.
amy +10 internets, but unfortunately wrong: External latex application (or does that count as internal) doesn't cause autism, it's the injection directly into the bloodstream that makes it so devastating (which also explains why the removal of latex from gloves didn't change anything).
Of course it's not the latex. It's the adhesive that holds the label on the vaccine vials. It alters the non-crystalline amorphous structure of the glass, which causes the vaccine in solution to take on a harmful energy structure (don't ask what kind of energy. We only play scientists on television.).
@Prometheus
No, silly, it's the vial itself! In my soon-to-be-published paper, I describe how the slightly alkaline pH of the vaccine solution etches the vial over time, causing a buildup of microscopic silica particles which cause irreparable CNS damage upon vaccine administration.
We need to make the public more aware of the dangers of the use of glass medication vials for storage of solutions of non-neutral pH! The health and well-being of our children may be at stake!
I just purchased a chemistry degree from a non-accredited online university (it was on sale for 50% off this week only!) and am already at work submitting my hypothesis for publication by the highly-respected National Vaccine Information Center.
Big Silica has victimized our children for far too long!
Hey Prometheus,
Your sarcasm is funny! I remember you attacked the allergy-induced regressive-autism etiology many years ago. Hope you read the book!
Regards,
Michael J. Dochniak
Wow, Prometheus, you really hooked a big one! Congrats.
Maybe Michael J. Dochniak can tell us why he publishes in Medical Hypothesis rather than a respectable journal, or why he publishes books instead of having peer-reviewed journals publish his hypothesis about allergies?
As well, it looks like Nova Science Publishing will pretty much put out anything that looks plausible and charge exorbitant prices for it. Tell me, Mr. Dochniak, do you think you deserved "#5,625,032 in Books" from Amazon?
So let's assume just for a second that subcutaneous exposure to latex proteins is the major cause of autism. Are there any other ways that someone could be so exposed except for vaccines? Will there be a campaign against those?
Actually the Pink Book is scheduled to be revised and available shortly. I located the updated packaging for vials of vaccines at:
Entire Contents of Pink Book Appendix B
On Pages 19-20 in Appendix B (February 2011) you will find the presence of latex in certain vaccine vial ports or stoppers and syringes. Also, there is a Pink Book Errata that states some additional vaccines' packaging contains latex (May, 2011)
@ Michael J. Dochniak: I still don't believe your child is "vaccine injured" and your theory has absolutely no scientific basis.
Mephistopheles -- no, latex certainly isn't used anywhere else besides medicine, and subcutaneous injuries involving latex are completely unheard of outside of vaccines.
And birthday parties, of course. And amusement parks. And restaurants. And car dealerships. And hairdressers. And anywhere else that kids often are given cheap balloons in a futile effort to get them to settle down and stop tearing around like maniacs. :-D
triskelethecat, they are both me, it depends which account I log in under.
@ Calli Arcale: Let's not forget that the cheap balloons come packed with a powdery substance (drying agent?) and that they are manufactured in third or fourth world countries...where "powdery substances" may not be harmless.
Dochniak's child obviously was treated for asthma in the Emergency Room (See my take on the episode at #24 above).
Given the two alternatives of latex-induced autism and oatmeal-induced autism...I opt for oatmeal as the trigger.
lilady -
Whew. Glad we've got that cleared up. :)
Someone needs to write a paper on Oatmeal Induced Autism - and then call a press conference...
@60 lilady
The powder is to prevent latex from sticking to itself and is usually corn starch or talcum powder. While most very cheap balloons are made in China and Mexico, it's a highly automated manufacturing process, with manufacturers in US, Canada, France, etc.
I've heard of some claims that many allergies to latex may actually be allergies to the powder used to keep it from sticking together. I think this is why most latex/nitride gloves are now powderless gloves.
@ Yojimbo: I'm working on the "Oatmeal-Induced Autism" paper in addition to developing my theories of "Condom-Induced Autism" and "Condom Use is Protective Against Autism".
I'll let you guys know when I call press conferences and promise me that you will be supportive of me when Orac blogs about my press conferences.
Mr. Dochniak remarks:
I would hope that Mr. Dochniak will read the comments above (including my own) and provide some explanation for why his hypothesis fails to account for the simultaneous rise in autism prevalence (at least, administrative autism prevalence) and decline in the medical use of latex. That would be far more welcome than a "pat on the back" for my humour.
Also, I don't see how pointing up obvious flaws in the hypothesis constitutes an "attack".
As for reading his book, I'd rather not have to spend $43 and lose irretrievable hours out of my life to get one simple question answered. I see no reason why I should pay money to see him defend his hypothesis.
BTW, Mr. Dochniak, in your Amazon.com biographical sketch, you describe yourself thus:
Two questions:
[1] You describe yourself as a researcher; your published works include your two books and one paper in Medical Hypotheses (2007). Apart from formulating a hypothesis, what research have you done?
[2] Since you seem to be the only "researcher" looking at "allergy-induced regressive autism", shouldn't you be "The leading researcher..."?
I don't doubt Mr. Dochniak's credentials as the parent of an autistic child (credentials I hold, as well), but I see no reason to think that he has made an insightful breakthrough into the nature of autism. If he would like to present his arguments, I would be eager to hear them.
Prometheus
Someone needs to write a paper on Oatmeal Induced Autism
That explains a great deal about the Scots.
Before forming an opinion, I would like to see if the theory is explained in the book and the explanation is reasonable. If latex is somehow being injected with the vaccine it might be much more likely to cause an immune system problem, than latex in clothing or in gloves.
And what evidence is there for problems from latex in vaccines? People who are very allergic to latex aren't supposed to get vaccines with latex packaging, but beyond that? I found something on Medline but it's extremely preliminary.
The theory shouldn't be derided without knowing this.
Laura,
Most importantly, you need a plausible mechanism that connects allergic reactions to autism. Followed by research confirming that connection. Then you can start asking about the latex being carried along with the injection being a cause.
But then, there's an easier place to start. Is there a strong statistical association between any vaccine injection and autism that can't be explained more simply? Answer: No. So we don't need to spend a lot of time looking for the possible steps in a process that doesn't happen.
Also autoimmune diseases are on the rise, and I get the impression it's a real increase, not just an increase in diagnosis. I think there is some evidence that regressive autism has an autoimmune aspect.
There are 7 houses on the street I live on, and 3 women here - that I know of - have autoimmune diseases. Including me, unfortunately.
Just for kicks, I looked up ISI impact factors for some journals.
Journal of infectious Diseases - ISI impact 5.865
Clinical Infectious Diseases - ISI impact 8.195
New England Journal of Medicine - ISI impact 47.080
...
Medical Hypotheses - ISI impact 1.393
(whomp, whomp)
@ArtK
The link I gave was to a Chinese paper exploring a possible latex/autism connection.
The reality of the situation is too complicated to summarily dismiss it.
The immune system is capable of extravagant sensitivity.
Laura stated "People who are very allergic to latex aren't supposed to get vaccines with latex packaging..."
Come on Laura what does "very allergic mean" and please provide us with your citation.
I don't think anything at all allergenic should be anywhere near a vaccine. They probably shouldn't use natural latex since it contains a major allergen.
If you are going to give an injection to the general public it should be very, very clean of allergens. Perhaps especially important when giving injections to children.
@lilady
OK, citation
Laura, that is your opinion...based on non-science. Please provide us with any citations regarding immunizations given to the general public or given to children where "very allergic" is a contraindication to immunization. Again I ask what does "very allergic" mean?
Since the paper is behind a pay-wall, I can't look at it, but the abstract is interesting. It posits no connection between the immune issues and autism, other than a simple correlation. There's no mention of any mechanism.
As others have noted, the connection is tenuous at best, given that children's overall exposure to latex has decreased while autism diagnoses have increased.
As my first psych TA beat into our heads "correlation is not causation." This is especially true when you have a tiny sample size (one family.) Both autism and a latex sensitivity may be carried on the same chromosome in this family, to give an explanation that is as likely as any saying that the sensitivity causes the autism.
Any correlation between vaccines and autism incidence is well explained by shifting diagnostic criteria. Occam's Razor tells us we don't have to go looking for more esoteric explanations in this case.
I'm not going to get all excited about a self-published book (CreateSpace is a vanity publisher.) A book by a self-proclaimed "expert" who publishes in a miserable excuse for a journal -- the journal equivalent of CreateSpace, in fact. While the Chinese paper is interesting, it in no way makes up for the lack of credibility that Dochniak suffers from.
"I don't think anything at all allergenic should be anywhere near a vaccine."
Allergenic to whom? Practically everything is (or at least has been claimed to be) allergenic to *somebody*.
Just for laughs, I went and looked at Dochniak's author page on Amazon. There was a discussion thread (well, really one post and no responses), titled "EPA rejects 'safer' natural latex for tires". The body of the post was:
That led me to the EPA response to the citizen petition and thence to the petition. Guess who submitted the petition? Mr. Dochniak himself. Much of the "supporting" references in the docket are Dochniak's publications.
Methinks the guy has some kind of latex fetish. Crank magnetism anyone?
His author page has the same link to the Chinese study that Laura provided and very little else. Pretty thin gruel there.
Slightly OT, but talk about taking advantage of parents' fears! I stumbled upon this site today:
VacciShield
WTH
@ArtK Sure, the authors of the Chinese paper speculate on a mechanism. They say "we hypothesize that immune reactions triggered by close contact with natural rubber latex might influence the functions of B lymphocytes by altering expression of certain proteins identified in our experiments thus contributing to the occurrence of autism."
The latex-vaccine connection is just a hypothesis. But it isn't a ridiculous hypothesis, as some people here seem to think. We can't logically conclude that it's false, just from the fact that it's a theory that posits harm caused by vaccines.
The first question I'd have about contentions that there is no observed correlation between vaccines with latex and autism, is whether anyone has measured this. Not all vaccines are packaged in latex.
Keeping allergens out of vaccines isn't a question of science as much as a question of values and public policy. Something that's injected into the general public, especially children, ought to have as few ingredients other than the medically necessary ones, as possible. On general principles, because people do have adverse reactions to various chemicals and proteins, and we don't know everything about the body's reaction to all those impurities. People do apparently have adverse reactions to the latex in vaccines, at least such adverse reactions were reported in the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System. It is safer to make these injections as pure as possible; especially they should be free of major allergens like latex. Something that's injected on a large scale should be as free of *possible* side effects from allergens etc. as is consistent with the medical purpose, not just not just free of known side effects.
A doctor gave me a steroid nasal spray once, and I was worried I might have an immune reaction to it. He said, "look, they make those things for people who have a lot of allergies and sensitivities, they are designed to be hypoallergenic". It turned out I was OK with it.
The same principle ought to be applied to vaccines that are given to children - they should be designed to be very hypoallergenic since children commonly have allergies and sensitivities.
@Laura: You're attempting to play the Jenny McCarthy gambit, one where you claim you aren't anti-vaccine, but you want green vaccines, or clean vaccines, or perfect vaccines. You don't necessarily understand the science, which is clearly evident by the fact you accept that the authors of your cited piece claim to understand a cause of autism, but you sure know what you want. You think it is possible, because you got a steroid once that was hypoallergenic?
You also show absolutely no acknowledgement of the rate of allergic reactions to vaccine, you don't seem to understand that herd immunity protects those that can't/shouldn't be vaccinated (or the vaccination isn't effective), and you think VAERS is a scientific citation. It isn't. It is a legal tool where lawyers and laypeople make claims against vaccines in order to increase their chances of winning settlements, or in order to cloud the data. VAERS is barely useful at this point.
So I have to wonder, what game are you trying to play? Which website are you using to appear "reasonable"? In fact, the link you provide indicates a high probability of woo. You should watch Storm to get a feeling of what I think about your "explanations".
Refuse vaccines that have latex warnings. Read the book and you'll understand why.
Michael J. Dochniak
@ Laura: You have no citations about your statement "People who are very allergic to latex aren't supposed to get vaccines with latex packaging"...
The majority of people who have reactions to latex have a "topical" reaction, not an anaphylactic reaction. There are no contraindications to administering any vaccine to adults or children who have this topical reaction. In the rare case of a known prior anaphylactic latex event, then an immunization would be contraindicated...except if the risk to not getting immunized exceeds the risk of exposure to latex.
As I stated in a prior post there has been only once case ever reported/documented of an anaphylactic reaction to an immunization (hepatitis B vaccine) occurring in a person with a prior history of an anaphylactic reaction to latex.
Laura...take some science courses please, before you post again with your sweeping generalities/unscientific opinions.
@Laura
No, that's a correlation. How does the altered expression of certain proteins contribute to the occurrence of autism? What's the mechanism by which those altered proteins produce the symptoms of autism? Do they effect neurotransmitters? If so, which ones and how? Do they effect how neurons grow in the brain? Again, how do they affect that?
Simply saying "these proteins are different in people with autism" says nothing about how those proteins cause the autism. It would be just as (in-)correct to say that autism causes those proteins to be different. Or (most likely) that some third thing is causing both.
You're right, that it's just an hypothesis. A tremendously weak, badly supported hypothesis. Supported by the writing of one crank and one paper that talks about a correlation between allergies and autism in one family, leaving wide open a great number of confounding factors (primarily a genetic cause for both the autism and the latex allergy.) A hypothesis that is unsupported by any correlation between latex exposure and subsequent autism. If latex exposure decreases while autism incidence increases, that's a strike against this hypothesis. It also fails to explain the many people who have latex allergies who aren't autistic.
It's a hypothesis that is weak because it lacks any explanation of how latex, or an allergic response to latex, causes autism.
Let me try to explain the difference between a correlation and causation. We'll start with an observation: Several people die from a form of paralysis after eating food from cans, where the cans were bulging prior to opening. There's a correlation between bulging cans and subsequent death. But we can't say that the bulging cans caused the deaths. So, we investigate further.
We find that the bulging cans have colonies of Clostridium botulinum, while the non-bulging cans don't. Ah, so now we have a correlation between C. botulinum and death by paralysis. But we still don't have a mechanism. More investigation is needed.
We find that C. botulinum produces a chemical, call it "botulin toxin." We find that botulin toxin interferes with the operation of nerves, especially nerves that are firing rapidly, by blocking the release of acetylcholine at the neuromuscular junction. Et voilà , we now have a fully-formed hypothesis that includes an explanation of how this works, not just a correlation.
@ Michael Dochniak
How 'bout some peer-reviewed science backing this up, not a self-published book? I have no desire to enrich you. If you've got scientific evidence that latex is a cause of autism, you owe it to the world to publish so that scientists can try to replicate your investigations. Provide proof and I can guarantee that the folks at AoA and the "safe vaccines" militia will enrich you beyond anything your book can do (cf. Andrew Wakefield.)
Without that you're just another crank with a latex fetish.
Shorter Michael J. Dochniak: Buy my book, please!
As I implied before, books are not scientific, they aren't peer reviewed and you're a quack.
@ Dochniak: Why would we ever read your book? When I read a book I want to know if it's fiction or non-fiction...your book is neither. Just another celebrity expert wannabe...too bad Jenny got there ahead of you.
Oh holy crap, I'm sorry, I did a horrible job researching Michael J. Dochniak. Turns out that he has a profit motive behind demonizing latex! He's got multiple patents out on alternative compounds to replace latex.
http://www.vytex.com/BizDocs/ASCVystar4609.pdf
Wow, Dochniak, you're not a quack, you're much worse. It appears you're basing everything off of one paper published in Cairo that hasn't been repeated. http://iospress.metapress.com/content/w6820728082nu597/
Good job JayK!
I have a post in moderation (probably due to a link), but I found that Mr. Dochniak petitioned the EPA to ban natural latex in tires. The EPA said "no."
Cool. We've got a Fake-Rubber Shill!
@ JayK: Good for you..finding Dochniak's expertise in "green adhesives" (latex).
I don't think that latex adhesives would be appropriate for caps on vaccines though; perhaps cork (it's natural) would be a viable alternative. But, then there's the problem with cork in syringes...
And when this one turns into a non-starter, it'll be the plastic the syringes are made of, and then the metal the needles are made from, and then the ceramic on the toilet bowl this idea should have been flushed down.
Two personal observations:
1) IFAIK autism is not an immune disorder according to information we now have.
2) There is no proof that any latex (any quantity at all) remains on the needle and is injected in most cases.
Seems to me before looking at possible immune system disorder type causes there would have to be some (credible) evidence that autism is an immune dysfunction. But IANAS, someone who is one is free to correct me.
The paper that Laura cites:
In this study, the authors used an antibody "chip" to probe the production of 500 B-lymphocyte-associated proteins in a single family with multiple autistic members (i.e. an apparent genetic cause for their autism). They found that the autistic members showed different levels of four (out of 500) of the proteins in the autistic members of the family.
At this point, the authors segue into a discussion of how the family is exposed to natural rubber latex and how this might be the cause of the autism, presumably because the autistic members were - as the result of the four B-lymphocyte-associated proteins having different levels - predisposed to have an adverse immune reaction to latex.
I found the differences in the proteomic profiles of the autistic and non-autistic members of the family questionable enough, but the jump from what appeared to be a straightforward "genetic mutation leading to immune dysfunction" result to a "it might be the latex" conclusion left me dizzy and disoriented. I think they should re-examine their conclusion, since their data don't appear to support it (nor, in fact, do their data appear to be even vaguely relevant to their conclusion).
It has been illuminating to see that there are environmental niches of autism crankery that I had not previously even heard of. I thank you for this, Orac, and also Mr. Dochniak.
Mr. Dochniak seems to have learnt his debating style from Andrew "Read My Book" Wakefield. Here's a tip, Mr. Dochniak: I'm not going to buy your book to find out the gist of your argument if you aren't confident enough of it to give us at least a capsule summary. Maybe if my local library wastes public funds to buy a copy, I'll check it out for my next long trip. Maybe not.
Again, I don't doubt Mr. Dochniak's sincerity (although, given his position to financially benefit from his "hypothesis", I probably should); what I doubt are his data (which appear to be nil).
Of course, I am always open to being surprised. Surprise me, Mr. Dochniak - show us your data.
Prometheus
I should have included a bit more information about the Shen et al paper:
[1] The study looked at a single nuclear family with three (3) autistic children and three (3) neurotypical children.
[2] The parents run a "natural rubber production business".
[3] No tests for latex allergy were done on any member of the family.
[4] No tests for latex protein reactivity were done on lymphocytes from any member of the family.
[5] The sole citation to support the authors' claim that latex might cause autism was Mr. Dochniak's Medical Hypotheses article.
[6] The authors suggest studying the prevalence/incidence of autism among families that work with latex, but acknowledge that there is no data suggesting that this prevalence/incidence is any higher than in the general population.
Perhaps Mr. Dochniak could apply his research accumen to determining if there is an elevated risk of autism among the children of latex workers. This would significantly bolter his hypothesis, which currently appears to be completely lacking in data.
Prometheus
@Prometheus
Thanks for the analysis of the article. That confirms the promise of the abstract -- a lot of hand-waving resulting in a weak case of guilt-by-association. It's nothing but an anecdote wrapped up in "sciency" language.
It makes me wonder about the quality of the journal where it was published.
I'm surprised they haven't started blaming the demons, the pagans and the Jews yet. I don't imagine it will be long before they do.
Because it is always the demons, the pagans, and the jews! Don't you know we are in a conspiracy with Big Pharma to make the world sick and then rule a world devoid of people?
*rolls eyes*
And these kind of folks is one of the reasons why I remain anti-social!
@79 Enkidu - Continuing the OT, I checked out the VacciShield site. Almost nothing on the page loaded properly for me. Naturally, the one thing that does load is the store.
"Dammit Jim! I'm a salesman, not a doctor!"
Michael Dochniak's paper in Medical Hypotheses is available online.
He talks a lot about possible mechanisms for a latex-autism connection, indeed there is a superabundance of mechanisms :)
He doesn't mention vaccines specifically. There are lots of references, which may be worth exploring.
@Yojimbo: Oops, just delete the words "Home Page" from the end of the URL and you'll get to the site.
@lilady
I think you're on to something there. Condom use can indeed prevent autism in children. The fact that condom use also prevents children is merely coincidental.
----------
In the spirit of the good non-Dr. Dochniak, I, The Gregarious Misanthrope, do hereby declare myself to be a world-renowned expert on the theory that the rise of quantum/magnetic/ion-enhanced power bracelets are driving the perceived increase in large earthquakes and are the item prophesied by the Maya to bring about the end of time. This all occurs via a mechanism that you can read about in my book: "The rise of quantum/magnetic/ion-enhanced power bracelets are driving the perceived increase in large earthquakes and are the item prophesied by the Maya to bring about the end of time," soon to be available on Amazon.
[2] The parents run a "natural rubber production business".
So according to Laura, environmental exposure to latex is not an issue because "If latex is somehow being injected with the vaccine it might be much more likely to cause an immune system problem, than latex in clothing or in gloves."
But then the citation she and Dochniak present to support this possibility is about... environmental exposure to latex.
** Double headpalm **
I have only just now noticed that Mr Dochniak is a fellow resident of the Twin Cities. How embarrassing.
Since all VAERS can record is what someone claims is an adverse event that happened to them in what they consider to be significant temporal proximity to a vaccine, jumping to the conclusion that such adverse events are not just caused by the vaccine, but thereby proved to be caused specifically by latex in the vaccines, is a little like saying "There are people who have reported that after they ate fast food, their tummies got upset. This proves that the meat served by the KFC chain is actually the artificial species Animal 57, and that some people are allergic to Animal 57 meat."
Re: VacciShield
Let's see now. "As seen in Mothering Magazine"? Check! Quack Miranda? Check! Testimonials? Check! Buy our product now? Check!
This may be old news, or posted in a different thread, but Maryland has upheld the suspension of Mark Geier:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/health/ct-nw-autism-doctor-hearing-201105…
@ Michelle: Not "old news" for me, but "good news"...Trine Tsouderos and Meridith Cohn are on the case of Dr. Greier...now when is David Greier going to be prosecuted for practicing medicine without a license?
It's interesting, that in an attempt to forestall suspension of his license, Dr. Greier provided some affidavits from parents who "swear" that they weren't mislead by Dr. Grier and are supporting him. Time for referrals now, to Medicaid Fraud Bureaus and to private insurance companies who paid for chemical castration...as well as Child Protective Services bureaus to investigate the parents who were complicit in child abuse by castrating their children.
I NEVER said environmental exposure to latex is not an issue. Obviously it is. There are many people who are sensitive to latex. If latex is actually injected, it gets past immune system barriers, like skin, and it has more of a chance to cause immune reactions.
What I said was that Dochniak's hypothesis isn't ridiculous. It can be investigated. He came up with all sorts of ideas about how latex might cause problems in his paper.
You are welcome to call homeopathy or other sorts of wackery ridiculous. Things that really do not have a possible mechanism other than suggestion.
But, the idea that latex might be some kind of central allergen, causing immune system problems in certain people, is not in the same category.
Actually, to me it makes more sense to hypothesize that an immune system reaction might cause problems with vaccines, than the idea that mercury in the vaccines might be causing subtle toxicity. Because the immune system is quite capable of reacting to tiny quantities. That's what it's designed for. It seems more likely than tiny quantities of "toxins" affecting people.
I don't have a preconceived idea one way or the other about whether latex might cause problems in vaccines.
I have NO problem with the idea that if you've have an anaphylactic reaction to latex, you should avoid vaccines with latex. That's what the CDC says, and it seems like a very standard sort of warning that comes with a lot of drugs: If you're allergic to some ingredient, don't use the drug. I also wouldn't be in the slightest surprised that some people who have severe latex reactions have had reactions to vaccines.
People seem to be arguing about the CDC's warning about latex as if it were significant. It is totally beside the point. Dochniak is NOT hypothesizing that a few people who have anaphylactic reactions to latex in vaccines, are harmed by them (obviously, they are). The hypothesis is that a much larger proportion of children, say 1% or perhaps 1/1000, have a much more subtle reaction to tiny amounts of latex in vaccines, and that it can prime the immune system to start having reactions to foods, push it towards allergy, etc.
I think a "well, maybe" attitude is a LOT more rational than everybody jumping into a Two-Minute Hate, throwing a lot of scorn at Dochniak, when Orac gives the go-ahead. You know, in the novel "1984", the state allowed people to release emotional pressure by getting together in a room and screaming at the Nominated Enemy, for two minutes. The comments on this blog sometimes remind me of that.
I have some sympathy with the latex idea because I know how badly gluten can mess up people's immune systems. So it seems possible that other substances could do so also. I know that the immune system is extremely complex and not well understood. It doesn't at all mean I'm a "true believer" in latex being the root cause of a lot of immune system problems, or in tiny amounts of injected latex in vaccines causing problems. I just don't think it's a stupid idea.
Dochniak was apparently involved in coming up with a process to make hypoallergenic latex, with almost all of the allergenic proteins taken out. Of course if latex in vaccines *were* a major cause of autism, that would be very good news, since we could very simply prevent a lot of autism.
Laura, you're conflating vaccines with autism when there is no statistical link, which is exactly what Dochniak did, on top of the fact that he has a profit motive to scare people into approving his patented formula. There is NO evidence that latex causes autism. None. Zero, zilch. There is evidence against latex in vaccines causing autism.
What kind of proof will you accept? How many studies showing that there is no increase or decrease with changes in latex packaging?
And why are you supporting Dochniak? Co-conspirator? The idea that latex might be linked seems to be a very very small crowd that has only gotten vocal in the last year, and most of that has been in the past two months.
And why are you supporting Dochniak? Co-conspirator?
Very good mathematician and beautiful woman.
So what does "very good mathematician" mean? Can she calculate the tip better than the other engineers?
Perhaps she can calculate the frequency of vaccine latex allergic reactions for the rest of us that must not be "very good mathematicians".
At the very least, Laura, you could have cited Mostofa or any of a growing number of real scientists that are actually studying allergic reactions in some autistic children and done your homework. Tip for ya, don't hitch your wagon to a crank like Dochniak. Keep in mind, as well, that autism is a spectrum disorder, so any clustering would need to be well understood before trying to tie correlation to a pet theory. Dochniak didn't do that work.
Contact allergy to latex gloves is more prevalent amongst health care workers and those who work in laboratories. Consequently, most non-sterile gloves are now made with other materials as are sterile gloves.
Anaphylaxis due to latex contact has been reported in people undergoing certain invasive diagnostic tests (endoscopy, colonoscopy, heart catheterization) as well as those having intermittent catheterization or those with indwelling catheters. Anaphylactic reactions have been reported by using latex condoms, as well. The overwhelming majority of allergic reactions are topical following exposures to objects in the home environment or clothing that is woven with latex.
Kids who have had frequent exposure to latex due to frequent hospitalizations in their early years may be more prone to developing of a latex allergy
That is why latex gloves...sterile and non-sterile and catheters are now manufactured using different materials such as neoprene.
As I stated before, when I worked in public health where physicians and nurses administered tens of thousands of vaccines during special immunization clinics and hundreds of thousands of vaccines administered by staff in seven busy public health clinics, we never had a case of anaphylactic reaction to a vaccine (they were dispensed from glass vials with latex ports). Kids and adults who are scheduled for an immunization, must fill out a screening paper so that staff does not put the patient at risk.
The CDC reports only one anaphylactic episode in a patient with a known prior anaphylatic reaction to latex, after receiving a hepatitis B vaccine.
Latex allergy causing autism...I don't think so.
In the book "Vaccine Delivery and Autism - The Latex Connection" co-author Ms. Dunn and I describe how genetic material (i.e., mRNA) from HDNR can leach into the vaccine solution, affecting adaptive immunity and allergy-induced regressiove autism.
Children are not immune to the vaccine learning-curve.
Regards,
Michael J. Dochniak
Wow - another "BUY MY BOOK - it explains everything that I can't obviously explain here."
If certain children are so acutely allergic to latex that the minute quantity of latex that might be carried into the body by an injection would cause profound and permanent effects on the brain, wouldn't that allergy be pretty obvious every time they came contact with latex at any time in their lives?
Moreover, I assume other injections also carry along minute quantities of latex; we should therefore expect to see higher rates of autism in children who receive injections for any other reasons, e.g., surgery. Do we?
"Moreover, I assume other injections also carry along minute quantities of latex; we should therefore expect to see higher rates of autism in children who receive injections for any other reasons"
Like, say, childhood diabetes. We should see a huge cohort of autistic diabetic children, due to the latex contamination when they inject.
Do we ?
I've been at this vaccine thing for a bit, and the term "vaccine learning-curve" is something I'm totally unfamiliar with. Perhaps the crank could explain this new term that he just pulled out of his nether regions?
Dochniak has no evidence, but he has a hypothesis, and that's good enough for him and Laura, it appears. Enter it into the lexicon, people! Latex allergies in vaccines cause autism because some guy with a profit-motive said so.
Not just a hypothesis - a hypothesis that's inconsistent with the data. You know, which is already indicated to be false.
@ JayK- the woo-meisters I review use the term "learning curve" to signify what SBM ( reality-based) folks like us need to "learn" in order to catch up to their latest innovations ( i.e. fictions) since they're "so ahead of the curve"- I doubt that any of them have studied actual *learning* or have learned much in general.
Mr. Dochniak (#112) has "rung the bell":
So it's the "genetic material" is it? And specifically "mRNA"?
Pardon me, I had to walk away for a moment to get my laughter under control.
We've already dealt with the "injected DNA" argument on this 'blog (short answer: it's randon, highly unlikely and would only affect cells at the site of injection).
But implicating mRNA pretty much proves that Mr. Dochniak hasn't a clue.
RNA of any type is extremely unstable, especially outside of a cell. Cells and body fluids are loaded with enzymes that break down RNA - some of these enzymes are so hardy that they can be autoclaved and still retain activity.
Any mRNA that "leaches" out of the latex stopper (assuming that any would survive the vulcanising process - you remember that one, don't you, Mr. Dochniak?) would degrade in a matter of days in the vaccine solution, even if it were stored in a refrigerator (note: I store my RNA samples in formamide - not water - and keep them at -80 degrees C and they still only last a few months).
Finally - and this is what sent me down the hall to the WC laughing - any mRNA that got into a human cell would, at most, make a few hundred copies of the protein it codes for and then be destroyed. That's all - no alteration of the genetic code, no triggering of catastrophic immune reactions.
Mr. Dochniak, I suggest that you read some research articles on siRNA, with particular attention to the "methods" section and then ask yourself if a vaccination is in any way equivalent. Then ask yourself how - even if a miracle occurred and the rubber plant's DNA got into a subcutaneous fibroblast or dendritic cell - how that could trigger autism.
No, I don't think that I will be reading Mr. Dochniak's book unless I'm in the need of a good laugh. He needs to read a few more books, himself. I'd suggest starting with a basic molecular biology text.
Prometheus
I doubled over with laughter as well when I read Mr. Dochniak's comment.
I do lots of real time quantitative RT-PCR in my lab, which usesâyou guessed it!âRNA as its template. I'm also moving into using next generation sequencing technologies, like RNAseq, which requires very pure, very undegraded RNA as its template. In isolating RNA from cells, one has to go to incredible lengths to protect it from degradation by RNases that lurk everywhere. In fact, I think your estimate of how long mRNA would survive if it somehow leeched into a vaccine, even if the vaccine is refrigerated, is, if anything, probably highly optimistic. Most likely it would degrade in a matter of hours, tops.
Aluminum hydroxide has played a major role in the efficacy of vaccines. It is also understood that vaccines that use HDNR may contaminate the vaccine solution with the Hevea-allergens and form a dangerous aluminum-hydroxide/hevea-allergen complex. It is this complex that may be a catalyst for the development of atopy and allergy-induced regressive autism. (Allergies and Autism - The Latex Connection)
"If a drug is sold and stored in vials with a natural latex stopper, no matter what precautions you take, latex allergens can contaminate that drug" -Robert Hamilton (Ph.D. professor of medicine at Johns Hopkins University
Regards,
Michael J. Dochniak
Mr. Dochniak,
I asked this question above in the context of the Chinese study and I ask it again: What is the mechanism by which those allergens will produce the symptoms of autism? What neurotransmitters are affected and how? What brain pathways become disrupted by the allergens?
I don't really care about how an allergen might be introduced, or what that allergen might be (Prometheus and Orac have addressed that pretty well above), I just care about what you think happens once the allergen is in the body.
Another question: What is dangerous about an "aluminum-hydroxide/hevea-allergen complex"? How does it work? What happens when I have this stuff floating around in my body or my child's body?
And no, "read my book" isn't an answer to any of those questions.
Mr. Dochniak, be advised that everything you post will be considered to have been pulled from thin air unless you properly support your statements with real peer reviewed cites. And here is a hint: your book is not one.
Mr. Dochniak, caught in one impossible claim, pivots:
So, now it's not the mRNA, it's the proteins or, more specifically, the "dangerous aluminum-hydroxide/hevea-allergen complex" (why do I hear Eisenhauer's voice?). Now we're back to bog-standard allergic reactions.
Yes, Mr. Dochniak, aluminium hydroxide makes vaccines more effective by making the proteins more immunogenic, presumably by binding them and preventing them from diffusing away from the subcutaneous tissues (where the dendritic cells live).
However, this wouldn't be any different from a regular latex allergy which - as we've seen inumerable times - does not cause autism.
Why not just give up, Mr. Dochniak? You clearly haven't worked out the "bugs" in your hypothesis; you need to go back to school and learn more about molecular biology and immunology and then try to re-formulate (or quietly abandon) your "latex-causes-autism" hypothesis.
[I have a strong feeling that Mr. Dochniak's response - if there is one - will include "read my book". Maybe I'm psychic!]
Prometheus
Man, all these moving goal posts are making me dizzy. Obviously, pseudo-scientific theories cause some sort of inner ear damage.
Prometheus,
The mechanism of how immune responses to the Hev-b proteins, and cross-reactivity therefrom, affect the incidence of allergy-induced regressive autism is described in the Nova Science book 'Allergies and Autism'
The mechanism of how vaccines cause allergy-induced regressive autism is described in the book 'Vaccine Delivery and Autism - The Latex Connection'
Riddle:
Who will refuse to pay the vaccine-injury bill when the gates of truth are opened?
Regards,
Michael J. Dochniak
Wow, Prometheus, you were so right! "Buy my book, pretty please!" was absolutely on the dot.
Who will pay the light bill when the rabid bunnies eat all of the yellow rotations of the moon? The truth!
Who will refuse to pay the vaccine-injury bill when the gates of truth are opened?
Well don't look at me, I only had the entree.
Mr. Dochniak, what part of "real peer reviewed cites" and "your book is not one" did you fail to understand?
In short: DUDE! Stop pushing your book! We don't fracking care about your book! Post real peer reviewed evidence or we will think you made it all up.
Oh my, I love the sound of that phrase "gates of truth"...lifted right out of the "gates of alchemy" and used frequently on anti-vax sites.
I suppose everyone on Dochniak's Christmas list, will be gifted with his book...bummer.
Or perhaps I could ask Mr. Dochniak for a review copy. :-)
Of course, then I would actually have to read the book. :-(
Mr. Dochniak should really stop self-referencing so much...
That sort of behavior will make ya go blind, yanno.
Orac,
You can get an inside look at the book from Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Vaccine-Delivery-Autism-Latex-Connection/dp/14565…
Or ask your local library to stock the book.
Dry natural rubber, part of vaccines
Cut, slash, gather, and collect what bleeds
Milky-white colloid from Para Rubber Tree
Latex allergy, mankind beware
Harmful allergens, Doctors take care
Nurses and Parents make sure itâs not there
~
Government involvement
Itâs only fair
FDA, CDC, NVPO standardsâ¦
Letâs make aware
~
Dry natural rubber
Take out of vaccines
Itâs not safe, and itâs not clean
Mr. Dochniak responds:
Damn! I am psychic! I should drop my day job and take my show in the road - I could be bigger than Sylvia Brown(e)!
OK, all kidding aside, I get it. Mr. Dochniak is embarrassed that his "mRNA hypothesis" was so easily dismantled and he's not going to let us know what the rest of them are without at least getting the author's cut of the book profits.
But he leaves us with a riddle:
Ah, the "gates of truth". Well, since "truth" is a philosophical concept (science deals with data), I will guess that this is a rhetorical question.
My question for Mr. Dochniak is "Are you more interested in making money from your book than you are in educating people about your hypothesis?"
My prediction is "Yes."
Prometheus
Prometheus,
Science and data.....
The intellectual progression of mankind rests on the shoulders of immunity.
Here's a brief mechanism:
Hyper-adaptive immunity (IgE) - neurotrophin over-expression (NGF) - neural growth and pruning (atypical neural-connectivity)- behaviors (regressive autism). See my books for hypothesis, references, and supporting scientific data.
Regards,
Michael J. Dochniak
Dear Mr. Dochniak,
I have discovered the flaw which makes your hypothesis untenable. I shall briefly describe the logical process by which the proof is accomplished: Ergot hypothesis - Plato (subterranean, light deprivation) - Wilbur Glenn Voliva - the missing prism - no proof of causation.
I trust that you will not be foolish enough to continue propounding your fatally flawed hypothesis unless you are able to refute my disproof. Which, in order to read, you will have to pay my publishers to read my book after I have raised enough money to pay them to publish it.
Mr. Dochniak:
Do you have some kind of reading comprehension problem? Did you miss people teasing and laughing at your endless flogging of that book? Did you also miss that you were asked to support your claims with actual evidence, but not the book?
Mr. Dochniak,
Your book appeals to me for two reasons: 1) The potential for (unintentional) humor as you struggle against logic to make a connection between latex, allergies and vaccines; and 2) Emergency supplies if I run out of toilet paper.
Neither is worth $43 (plus shipping) to me.
If you have evidence, then bring it. If not, shut up and go away.
Dochniak?
Isn't that Russian for 'fuck-wit'?
Mr. Dochniak's brief (one might even say "abbreviated") description of his "hypothesis":
To which I respond:
Since I've grown weary of Mr. Dochniak's constant refrain of "read my book" (see: Andy Wakefield's last stand), I went to the local city library branch - they don't have it, not in any of their branches. Neither does the county library system. Nor do the county libraries in the five counties surrounding my city.
I'm seeing a trend here.
It's not that my area is hostile to "alternative" and fantasy-based medicine - no, that would definitely not be true. And the suburbs are virtual hot-houses for "alternative" autism woo, hosting some internationally famous "alternative" autism practitioners and clinics.
In the end, I am frustrated in my attempt to read Mr. Dochniak's books. And, frankly, my curiosity to see what a hash he's made of biology and chemistry isn't great enough for me to spend $43 (plus shipping).
So, Mr. Dochniak, I believe it is time for you to, as they say in the movies, "put up or shut up".
Prometheus
P.S. One last psychic prediction - Mr. Dochniak's (non)answer will contain "read my book".
Prometheus,
Read my books! Yes, you are truly amazing at predicting what I'm going to say. You read me like a book but refuse to read my books. Best of luck Prometheus and I do enjoy your passion for science and open discussion.
Best Regards,
Michael J. Dochniak
Mr. Dochniak, why don't you just post your evidence here? Are you more interesting in scientific progress or your personal profits?
So, Prometheus, you've now been patted on the head for both your sense of humor and your passion for science. Isn't that enough to make you stop asking all these hard questions and just read (actually, buy) the book?
Mr. Dochniak,
If your goal is to spread information and thus help other people, and you want people to read your book, put the text online under a Creative Commons license, or sell an ebook for a nominal fee: say, $1 instead of $43 plus shipping. Either that, or stop thinking that complete strangers will give you significant money for the privilege of also giving you several hours of their time in order to make your case.
In the meantime, the message that comes through loud and clear is that you cannot make your case briefly, not even enough of it to convince people to look at the rest. So that's a substantial time investment. I like reading, but I prefer books that don't come with the clear if unstated message "it's going to be slow at first, please stick with it."
I also see a trend here. Dochniak will be "gifting" the book to everyone on his Christmas gift list and also "gifting" the book at bridal showers, christenings and handing them out when kids come "trick or treating" on Halloween...bummer.
The book may be used instead of newspaper pages for pet training and to line the bottom of bird cages.
Mr. Dochniak replies in a predictable fashion #141):
Again with the "read my books"!
Here's my point - in simple words, so that Mr. Dochniak cannot argue that he doesn't understand me.
The only hypothesis Mr. Dochniak has shared with us - that mRNA from the rubber plant causes some ill-defined change that leads to autism - has been shown to be not just incorrect, but laughably so.
Why, then, would I want to spend $43 for a book that is presumably filled with similar easily-debunked nonsense when I can get that sort of rubbish for free on television?
Mr. Dochniak's latest book is published by a vanity publishing house, which means that he had to pay them to get it published. This doesn't bode well for its contents.
No, Mr. Dochniak, I've read you well enough - I don't think I need to read your book, too. If you have something you'd like to share, feel free; if you're just shilling for your book, please don't bother.
Prometheus
hey,ORAC
Try writing a book
before you slam someone
who's much more capable
than you
Insecurities run rampant here....
Prometheus, don't read the book -because if you did this blubbering blogging of science wanna-be's would cease
Helen of Troy, could you please be more specific on the errors you find in the Orac's and Prometheus' statements. Please include cites that can already be found in a medical school library, both places that are near both of their work places.
We have already deconstructed the author's "theory" about latex caused autism. I suspect that the Helen of Troy troll is "projecting" her science wannabeism on posters who really have a science background.
I'm waiting for the troll's citations.
"Helen of Troy" implies that if I read Mr. Dochniak's book I would be so dumbstruck by his reasoning that "...this blubbering blogging of science wanna-be's would cease."
Funny thing - I am a scientist, a researcher in molecular biology and virology, published in peer-reviewed journals and have even written the odd book chapter or two. What I haven't done is write a book that could only get published by a vanity press at my own expense. Perhaps that's what I need to do to stop being a "science wanna-be".
Or not.
For "Helen of Troy's" benefit, I'll restate my argument in simple terms:
[1] Mr. Dochniak claims to have found the link between latex and autism.
[2] Mr. Dochniak has done no actual laboratory research in this field that he is willing to mention.
[3] Mr. Dochniak shared with us his hypothesis that mRNA and "genetic material" from the rubber plant leaches from latex-containing stoppers and into vaccines.
[4] Mr. Dochniak was apparently unaware that the mRNA (and other types of RNA) would rapidly degrade, especially during the processing of latex, and that none would be left in the stopper by the time it was placed on the vaccine vial.
[5] This (#4) suggests that Mr. Dochniak is not very knowledgeable about RNA and quite probably DNA.
[6] In addition, any DNA that "leached" from the stopper into the vaccine would affect only cells in the immediate area of the injection and while it might potentially result in a latex allergy, wouldn't have any effect on the central nervous system.
[7] Mr. Dochniak then asks us - having shown that one of his hypotheses about latex and autism is obviously wrong - to "read my book" in the blind faith that the rest of his hypotheses aren't as flawed as the one he proudly showed us (i.e. the "mRNA causes autism" hypothesis).
In conclusion, if the hypothesis that Mr. Dochniak had shared with us had been at all valid, I would have been willing to read his book. However, time being a finite resource and Mr. Dochniak's "best foot forward" having been such a miserable dud, I don't see that reading his book would be a profitable use of my time (or anybody's time).
We extended to Mr. Dochniak the opportunity to present and defend some of his other hypotheses, but he declined, preferring, I assume, to remain silent and only be thought a fool.
Any other questions, Ms. "Helen of Troy"?
Prometheus
Promethus,
The first rule of medicine is do no harm. Why insult an innocent child with a vaccine that has a latex-warning?
In my opinion, it's criminal.
Sincerely,
Michael J. Dochniak
Oh, the return of the latex allergy necromancer. I'm so impressed that it only took him 3 months to come up with that brilliantly executed reply.
Keep plugging away Dochniak, your ranking on the Amazon Best Seller list is # 5,382,060. The one "reviewer" of your book gives you no credence for your "theory" of latex in syringes causing autism.
Prometheus,
It's latex proteins, from the rubber syringe tips, leaching into a vaccine solution which affects the incidence of allergy-induced regressive autism in atopic children.
In the book "Vaccine Delivery and Autism - The Latex Connection", there are questions and answers that will stimulate future discussions about medical ethics and the evolution of adaptive immunity.
An example from page #74,
In the future...
Medical professionals will do blood tests before and after vaccinations, monitoring adaptive immunity.
The expression of cytokines, IgE, and NGF will be measured in children to help physicians and parents determine if a vaccine should be administered.
A child with an "atypical" adaptive immunity profile will be exempt from vaccinations.
Blood tests will be used to show a biological connection to vaccine injury (i.e., VICP).
Best Regards,
Michael J. Dochniak
LinkedIn update?
It doesn't seem to be too late to get in on the ground floor of Vytex, by the way. The 2009 EPA "citizen complaint" is pretty good, as well.
LinkedIn Patent Pending?
Method to affect the development of autism spectrum disorders, Patent application filed August 12, 2005...(patent never issued)
Mr.Dochniak, there are no latex parts on the vials with single use syringes. The syringes only have one dose, so there is no need to plunge a needle through a latex barrier into a multi-dose vial. The latex barrier was done away with as a by product of making vaccines thimerosal-free.
And really, it is very bad form to reference your own book/paper as an argument.
OSHA defines Hevea brasiliensis natural-latex as a hazardous material in the workplace.
Several years ago I sent a citizen petition into the FDA suggesting a regulation on defining the antigenic protein content for baby nipples and pacifiers made from Hevea brasiliensis natural latex. After 4+ years, I haven't gotten one response other than an acceptance letter that the petition was received.
Hospitals now ban Hevea brasiliensis natural-latex in their facilities. Big Pharma's continue to reduce natural-latex in vaccines. I think it's time for the FDA to wakeup and reduce the incidence of latex allergy and allergy-induced regressive autism with meaningful natural-latex regulations.
MjD
It might help if you actually used some real data and evidence in lieu of your blatant assertions (which means absolutely no references to your own writings). That would make your posts worthwhile, otherwise you are such another worthless crank.
Mr. Dochniak returns, after several months spent gathering his thoughts:
The warning is for people who are allergic to latex. If a child has a known latex allergy, it would be wrong to give them a vaccine from a container with a latex-containing stopper. Other than that, Mr. Dochniak's comment makes no sense.
Ah, so now it's the proteins that are the problem. And Mr. Dochniak's data supporting this hypothesis is.....? (crickets chirping) Is there a higher incidence of autism among latex-allergic children? Or are we to simply accept Mr. Dochniak's armchair reasoning unquestioningly?
If so, then I hypothesise (from my overstuffed armchair) that soy proteins are the cause of the "autism epidemic". It's even more likely than latex, since while latex use in medical products such as vaccines has been declining (unlike the autism prevalence), the use of soy proteing has been increasing. What say you to that, Mr. Dochniak?
OSHA doesn't define latex as hazardous, although it has issued warnings about the potential for sensitisation and allergic reactions. This is only common sense and - by the way - has nothing to do with autism. Mr. Dochniak needs to stick to one topic at a time.
Good effort, Mr. Dochniak, but not worth a passing grade. Come back when you have some data.
Prometheus
Comment thread necromancers like Mr. Dochniak are Exhibit A supporting the case for adding a setting to ScienceBlogs that would allow me to close comments automatically after a user-defined period of time. WordPress has that setting. Why doesn't this installation of Movable Type? For instance, over at my "other" blog, comments on all posts close after 90 days.
As it is, if I want to close down the comment threads on very old posts, I'd have to go back and do it manually for the literally thousands of old posts going back over six years. Not gonna happen, unfortunately.
I am sensing an energy imbalance in you and your blog, Orac. You need to go see an Energy Chelation master right away so he can close the comments in your old posts for you. :)
Why insult an innocent child with a vaccine that has a latex-warning?
Why insult the intelligence of Orac's readers with fact-free pimping of one's book?
Prometheus,
From your comments it appears you have eliminated atypical immunity as an etiology in regressive autism. If this is correct, your reference to soy proteins is a shameful display of sarcasm.
MjD
Dude, you don't seem to understand that for about ten years pediatric vaccines have come in single dose syringes, there is not no need for a latex stopper. The single dose version of the vaccines is how they could remove the thimerosal!
Chris,
Many single dose vaccines still contain latex. As an example, see the site below:
http://www.healthcare.uiowa.edu/pharmacy/rxupdate/2010/October2010RXU.p…
A search using the key words "Latex" and "single dose vaccine" will show that infants are in danger of natural-latex exposure from said vaccines.
MjD
That was just for influenza, which is not the most highly used vaccine. You are really digging deep, try better next time with some actual evidence that latex is a dire problem in vaccines. The evidence should be a real study from a real research group, not from a clinical newsletter.
Chris,
The FDA has issued a guidance document entitled, "User Labeling for Devices That Contain Natural latex (21 CFR801.437). The FDA requires natural-latex warning labels on vaccines. The evidence of harm is well documented.
Vaccination
Atopic child so fragile, parents so brave, doctors so giving
Science to study, science to learn
Autism spectrum disorder discern
MjD
So? I don't see any PubMed index numbers in that reply. Show it is as dire as you claim.
Necromancer tries to keep the argument going by a re-hashing of the "latex allergy" reactions due to latex plungers in syringes and/or latex ports...see my posting at #27 above:
"Pink Book General Recommendations On Immunization (Chapter 2)
On top of pg, 11 (of 22 pages) "Only one report of an allergic reaction after administration of hepatitis B vaccine in a known severe allergy (anaphylaxis) to latex has ever been published".
And of course, the sentence after the underlined link that Mr. Dochniak provided states that Fluzone influenza vaccines in single dose vials are totally latex free.
Mr. Dochniak comments:
I haven't eliminated any aetiology as a cause of regressive autism. Mr. Dochniak, on the other hand, hasn't provided any support for his claim that latex RNA, protein, DNA, lipids, etc. can cause regressive autism.
My proposal of soy proteins as a potential cause of autism (regressive or other) is perhaps a bit tongue-in-cheek, but it actually has more support than Mr. Dochniak's latex hypothesis.
After all, as has been pointed out repeatedly (and, apparently, repeatedly ignored by Mr. Dochniak), the use of latex in vaccines, medical equipment and even party balloons has been steadily decreasing over the past two decades, while the reported prevalence of autism (including regressive autism) has been increasing over the same time period. Only willful ignorance can explain Mr. Dochniak's persistent inability to realise that his latex-causes-regressive-autism hypothesis runs contrary to the available data.
Of course, it is possible (however unlikely) that Mr. Dochniak has data of such significance that it can overcome the demographic tide running against his hypothesis. If so, I would love to see it.
Even if we accept an inflammatory or immune-modulated cause of (as opposed to association with) regressive autism (not yet shown), there is no data available to show that latex is the trigger. In fact - as has been repeatedly pointed out - exposure to latex has been falling (although not yet to zero, as Mr. Dochniak keeps pointing out) at the same time that reported autism prevalence has been rising.
Let me repeat that: latex exposure - especially in medicine (including vaccines)- has been decreasing for the past two decades. At the same time, reported autism prevalence has been rising. Unless Mr. Dochniak has some data that show latex can cause autism which he has been too shy to show us, the only logical conclusion is that latex exposure is not correlated with autism.
And, while correlation is not causation, a lack of correlation speaks strongly against causation.
Prometheus
Prometheus,
Answers to all of these questions can be found in the books "Allergies and Autism" and "Vaccine Delivery and Autism - The Latex Connection".
"Vaccine Delivery and Autism - The Latex Connection" is now at $9.95 through Amazon.
Nova Science increased the price of "Allergies and Autism" so I can't help you there.
After reading the books, maybe you'll ask a question which wasn't contemplated and requires attention?
MjD
"I'll only tell you if you pay me" is a singularly unconvincing strategy. *L*
"Answers to all of these questions can be found in the books"
Fantastic! You'll have no problem referring us to the original sources then.
Hmm, I saw the video provided by Mr. Dochniak and his co-author of the "Allergies and Autism" book...which now stands on the Amazon "100 Best Sellers List" at number 6,196,502. I suggest that the self styled expert on allergies and autism, revisit the Amazon site to insert the link to RI...for a review of the science behind the book...and in order to increase sales of "Allergies and Autism".
Sorry, Mr. Dochniak, but you're essentially trying to say "Buy the chicken! Â You know the chicken is good, because the eggs are so good!" Â When someone points out that no one knows whether the eggs are good, you reply "Of course they're good! Â How could they not be good, coming from such a great chicken?"
An argument from authority, "you should believe Premise X because it is what Authority Y believes," is a difficult form of argument to begin with; it only makes for a strong argument when Authority Y really is a widely recognized authority in the field, and even then it is limited by whether the answer is actually known to authorities in the field.  In other words, even coming from the most recognized authority in the field, we would not believe a claim of "I know what causes autism!" because the authorities don't know yet what causes autism.  And are you the most widely recognized authority in the field, Mr. Dochniak?  Are you a recognized authority in the field?  No, you are not.  No one has any reason to order your books to find out what your speculations are on the causes of autism because there is no reason to think your speculations are of any value.
Your only way out of this dilemma would be to actually answer the questions put to you here;Â if you were able to give intelligent answers to objections such as "if latex causes autism, how come the autism rate hasn't decreased as the usage of latex has?" then we might think it was worth studying your ideas at greater length. Â But when you answer every objection with "buy my books and then you'll know what I think; in the meantime you should accept my book as substantion of my theories!" it doesn't work; you are trying to trade on an authority you don't have.
According to the original press release,
"REVIEW COPIES AND INTERVIEWS AVAILABLE".
I wonder if those interviews are anywhere near as satisfying as this comment-thread conversation...
"The answer to that question is in my book."
"That's all covered in my book."
"Buy my book!"
Mr Dochniak can certainly stay on-message.
Mr. Dochniak is stuck trying to explain how vaccines cause autism, when the evidence indicates that vaccines have no casual link to autism. It is a no-win situation, so he is just stuck trying to sell his book.
I've just read Mr. Dochniak's article in Medical Hypotheses, which you can find here should anyone be interested.
It looks like unsubstantiated speculation to me.
This video doesn't make it much clearer.
From Mr. Dochniak's Amazon page it says:
Oh, really? By whose standards? Does Irva Hertz-Picciotto know about this? (at least she is an epidemiologist and looking at environmental factors, exposure to latex would be environmental... but I missed it in her last "let's look at everything!" studies)
I checked, and the only graduate degree program in either of those disciplines is a Masters in Education or Educational Specialist. I do not see where Mr. Dochniak has any special expertise on allergies, immunology, neurology or even autism. UW- River Falls does have classes in autism, but mostly in the realm of special education.
Why are boys more likely to have autism?
An atypical expression of testosterone can shift immunity towards Th2 which is a sub-group of lymphocytes that play an important role in establishing and maintaining the capabilities of the immune system.
Androgens produce what regressive autism will induce
Sex hormones and immunity
No impunity
Testosterone profound
Antigens abound, antibodies around
If atopy assists then degranulation persists
Neurotrophin expression can bring about regression
NGF flows and neurons grow...
and grow...
and grow...
and grow
over-connectivity out of control
Androgens produce what atopy will induce
Regressive behaviors to grow
Regressive autism to know
Sex hormones and immunity
No impunity
If hormones were the same, the prevalence of autism based on gender would not be to blame.
MjD
I'd like all my friends, and Prometheus, at the science blog "Respectful Insolence" to know that it's atypical adaptive immunity which causes allergy-induced regressive autism.
It is clear that over-exposure to the allergenic proteins in Hevea brasiliensis natural-latex has been a major contributing factor in the increased incidence of atopy and allergy-induced regressive autism.
MjD
Naive people often think the hard part of science is coming up with a hypothesis, and that once that step is achieved, all that is left is to announce the hypothesis as if it was now verified truth. Â
Nothing could be more wrong.  Coming up with a hypothesis is so easy, anyone can do it.  Coming up with a hypothesis that's consistent with the already-collected data, that's harder, and Dochniak has failed to do that (if he was capable of explaining why autism would be going up when the supposed cause, exposure to latex, has gone down, he would surely have already done so.)  Coming up with a hypothesis and collecting exactly the kind of data which will expose it as false if it is false, that appears to be far beyond Dochniak's capabilities.
I honestly can't decide which is more likely, or which is sadder: Â that Dochniak is trying so desperately, and so futilely, to cover up the fact that his hypothesis is on the level of supermarket tabloid claims through the sole ineffective expedient of chanting "Buy my book, all questions are answered in my book"Â - or that he is actually in such denial, he doesn't even realize the vast gap between his speculations and the actual science to which he aspires. Â Depressingly, it's probably some of both.
A poem! Well, now I'm convinced!
@ TBruce: That would be a poem based upon some of the research of Simon Baron-Cohen...not even eligible for submission to the International Hippocrates Prize for Poetry and Medicine...but then who am I to judge?
Mr. Feldspar,
Science at its ambiguous core is the discovery of truth. In the realm of adaptive immunity, there are no absolute truths. The word "adaptive" in front of adaptive immunity exemplifies change. Thus, presenting a latex/autism hypothesis based on atypical adaptive-immunity can be unsettling.
"I have a terrible latex allergy; it actually blisters and burns my skin off. If it got into my bloodstream, it would probably kill me" - Andiarose, WrongPlanet.Net, Women's Discussion
MjD
MjD, you'll note that nowadays science advances by people examining and presenting evidence, not simply making claims. A single case of an autistic person having latex allergies is not compelling evidence.There was a time when a statement could be accepted as truth simply because it made sense. That was back when bloodletting was mainstream medical practice.
Mr. Dochniak - like so many in the "alternative" science and medicine fields - has confused his ability to read and (mis)interpret medical and scientific articles and texts with "research".
Likewise, Mr. Dochniak believes that his ability to form a hypothesis makes that hypothesis true.
I'm in the process of writing a longer 'blog-post about this sort of self-deception, but here is the short version:
A hypothesis - a good hypothesis - must not only explain give a model for how some natural (as opposed to supernatural) phenomenon (in this case, "regressive autism") happens, it must also explain all of the observations relevant to that phenomenon. In Mr. Dohniak's case, his hypothesis explains quite a bit, but fails to explain why "regressive autism" continues to rise in prevalence while latex use in medicine and other realms of commerce has declined.
Secondly, Mr. Dochniak has omitted an important part of his research: the actual research part. Mr. Dochniak may not have learnt this at school, but forming a coherent hypothesis (in which category Mr. Dochniak's latex hypothesis is not included - see above) is only the first - albeit important - part of doing research. Hypothesis testing - doing some sort of experiment to test the predictions of the hypothesis - is the major part of research.
Going to the library and poring over published articles about latex, autism and "adaptive immunity" (which I don't think Mr. Dochniak understands quite as well as he thinks he does, given his statements), is part of refining the hypothesis, not hypothesis testing.
In the interest of time, I'll give Mr. Dochniak a couple of suggestions how he might (relatively) easily test his hypothesis:
[1] Select a group of people with "regressive autism" (however he chooses to define the term) and a similar-sized group of age-, sex- and region-matched controls. Determine the prevalence of latex allergy in both groups. If the "regressive autism" group has a higher prevalence of latex allergy (by history or skin testing)- as would be predicted by his hypothesis - his hypothesis will have survived one test.
[2] Select a group of people with "regressive autism" and an age-, sex- and region-matched control group, preferably from a large HMO or similar health care situation. Going over their entire vaccine record from birth to the onset of autism (and the same age in the matched control), check lot numbers and manufacturers' records for the presence/absence of latex. Compare the two groups.
I'm certain that there are many other ways that Mr. Dochniak's hypothesis can be tested, but so far Mr. Dochniak has apparently (and please don't say "Read my book!" again, Mr. Dochniak) not bothered to test his hypothesis at all.
I think a more accurate description of Mr. Dochniak would be:
I know researchers, Mr. Dochniak, and you are no researcher.
Prometheus
Automobile tires are made from Hevea brasiliensis natural rubber (i.e., natural latex). Studies show that breathable tire-dust contains leachable allergenic proteins from natural latex.
A recent study indicates that children living near highways are twice as likely to have ASD.
http://www.bmedreport.com/archives/20953
"Correlation is not causation but it sure is a hint" - Edward Tufte (American Statistician)
MjD
Another straw grasped:
And, since the only substance that children living closer to highways are exposed to in excess of those living farther away is latex from tyre-dust, this finding (which has its own problems, I have to note - poorer people also live closer to highways; urban centers are usually the nexus for multiple highways; etc.) somehow supports the latex-causes-autism hypothesis?!?
Here's a hint: there is a vast difference between "supports the hypothesis" and "does not refute the hypothesis". This straw was in the latter category.
BTW, I'll take that response as confirmation that Mr. Dochniak has not done any hypothesis testing.
Prometheus
This retrospective case control study found that children whose mothers lived less than 309 meters from a freeway at the time of their birth had an increased incidence of autism that was barely statistically significant (OR = 1.03-3.45).
There was no association in those who lived further from a freeway, or in those who lived near a major road. As the authors themselves acknowledged:
It's an interesting finding that needs to be replicated, but claiming it supports the latex allergy autism hypothesis is a stretch at best.
Prometheus and Other Skeptics,
The half life of IgE antibodies is significantly shorter than IgG antibodies allowing a specific adaptive immune response to more readily go into remission from descreased exposure.
As an example, an atopic child gets insulted with an Hev-b protein contaminated vaccine (today the vaccine has a latex warning - thank you FDA). Latex exposure can cause latex allergy or latex sensitivity inducing food allergies based on stucture homology (i.e., cross reactivity).
Thereafter, with descreased natural-latex exposure a child can lose the latex allergy but often maintains the food allergies based on continued exposure to the food proteins.
Thus, the after effects of latex allergy (e.g., atopy) may continue to stress adaptive immunity long after the latex allergy has gone into remission.
Solution, protect atopic children from Hevea brasiliensis natural-latex exposure in an effort to reduce atopy and allergy-induced regressive autism.
MjD
Citations, Mr. Dochniak. Citations, please. Especially to those that have to do with the reactions causing autism.
Though I still think it is all a wild goose chase to look for how vaccines cause autism, when there is no real evidence that vaccines are associated with autism!
Prometheus and Other Skeptics,
The half life of IgE antibodies is significantly shorter than IgG antibodies allowing a specific adaptive immune response to more readily go into remission from descreased exposure.
As an example, an atopic child gets insulted with an Hev-b protein contaminated vaccine (today the vaccine has a latex warning - thank you FDA). Latex exposure can cause latex allergy or latex sensitivity inducing food allergies based on stucture homology (i.e., cross reactivity).
Thereafter, with descreased natural-latex exposure a child can lose the latex allergy but often maintains the food allergies based on continued exposure to the food proteins.
Thus, the after effects of latex allergy (e.g., atopy) may continue to stress adaptive immunity long after the latex allergy has gone into remission.
Solution, protect atopic children from Hevea brasiliensis natural-latex exposure in an effort to reduce atopy and allergy-induced regressive autism.
MjD
Mr. Dochniak, you're wasting everyone's time, so it's past time we cut to the chase.
I am going to ask you a question, and if you do not answer it, YOU LOSE.
If you burble about how your hypothesis is "unsettling" instead of answering the question, YOU LOSE.
If you offer unasked-for details about the mechanism of your hypothesis instead of answering the question, YOU LOSE.
If you claim you don't understand the question, YOU LOSE. Â And should probably return your college diploma.
The question is what attempts did you make to falsify your hypothesis?
Any non-responsive answer will be interpreted as a declaration of surrender and an apology for wasting so much of your time and ours.
The half-life of this discussion is three years from next Tuesday.
Mr. Feldspar,
In the spirit of the null hypothesis, I've worked with a Biotechnology Company in an effort to remove the antigenic proteins from NRL to provide a safer natural-rubber. Briefly, the null hypothesis is satified when the global natural-rubber industry exclusively uses ultra-low protein NRL (i.e., Hevea brasiliensis)and the allergy-induced regressive autism rate continues to increase in future generations.
Independantly, I've discovered a new adsorption process which removes the antigenic proteins from NRL to undetectable levels, based on the current analytical standards.
I wish I could do more, and work closer with other researchers, to falsify the hypothesis. I'm very open to suggestions Mr Feldspar.
MjD
So the answer would be "nothing."  Doing something which will provide you evidence in the future if your hypothesis is wrong does not give you a basis to declare it correct now - especially since there is no reason to think you would actually pay attention to that evidence when it came.  After all, people have called your attention to the fact that latex use has dropped and autism rates have not, and you've had no reasonable explanation for that.
To make Antaeus Feldspar's point in a slightly different way: replacing the global natural-rubber industry with "ultra-low protein NRL" would test a hypothesis, but it would not be Mr Dochniak's original hypothesis. That original hypothesis -- featured in the book which he keeps advising us to buy -- specifically linked autism to latex exposure through vaccines.* Now he's broadened the target to general environmental exposures (e.g. tyre dust).
This is all very well if the book only focussed on vaccines in order to market it to an eager and gullible anti-vaccine readership, but it does give the impression of goalposts in motion.
* The test in this case would be to reduce the use of latex-sealed multi-dose vaccines; and as Mr Dochniak has been repeatedly reminded, this has actually happened.
Let's go back to Dochniak's original press release:
"If vaccination manufacturers and providers start to reduce their use of HDNR, we will see a dramatic reduction of allergy-induced cases."
The manufacturers and providers have done exactly that. Everything subsequently is bullshit.
Childhood vaccinations are affecting neurological development, creativity, intelligence, and forcing evolutionary change. The allergenic proteins in natural-latex, a component found in many vaccine packaging and delivery systems, are triggering atopy and allergy-induced regressive autism.
Sincerely,
Michael J. Dochniak
Childhood vaccinations are affecting neurological development, creativity, intelligence, and forcing evolutionary change. The allergenic proteins in natural-latex, a component found in many vaccine packaging and delivery systems, are triggering atopy and allergy-induced regressive autism.
Sincerely,
Michael J. Dochniak
Mr. Dochniak, you don't seem to understand that making statements without any evidence is not acceptable.
Merely repeating assertions over and over again does not give them substance, Mr. Dochniak. We're all quite aware of what you think is a link between latex in vaccine packaging and autism but what you haven't provided is any reason why any reasonable person would come to that conclusion. If a lawyer tried arguing cases in court the way you argue your case, he'd be tossed out of the courtroom, because he wouldn't be arguing his case at all, merely stating his theory of the case over and over.
"If a lawyer tried arguing cases in court the way you argue your case, he'd be tossed out of the courtroom, because he wouldn't be arguing his case at all, merely stating his theory of the case over and over."
And with any bit of luck, the judge would direct the plaintiff to pay all of the defendant's legal fees and perhaps impose a hefty fine, for filing a frivolous lawsuit.
Hey, Michael J. Dochniak,
can you tell me how many individuals in the United States have an actual latex allergy? And how prevalent it is in our current population?
Supposing you can answer the first question, then we might be able to move on to your hypothesized autism correlation.
Your turn.
Chemmomo,
A better question than how many people have latex allergy is:
Why do the antigenic latex-proteins causes cross-reactivity in some children increasing atopy and allergy-induced regressive autism?
That question is being explored, but we can all be proactive and reduce natural-latex exposure. An example, refuse vaccines that have a latex warning.
MjD
An even better question is why you placed that curse on Sugarland, causing that platform to fall and kill fifteen people?Evidence first, then accusations. Understand?
Absolutely lovely that MjD (or probably better named "broken record troll") continues to make assertions of fact without providing any evidence or substance except "buy my book."
Definitely not the way to make friends or influence people.....
Michael,
I would think you should first determine whether or not it actually does cause cross-reactivity in some children, increasing atropy, etc. Also, whether or not allergy-induced regressive autism actually exists. It seems to me you have the cart ahead of the horse; convinced that a condition exists, you are now seeking causes for it, but you have not first determined whether your conviction is reasonable.
I'd like all the bloggers here at "Respectful Insolence, especially Prometheus, to understand that I'm not anti-vaccine or anti natural-latex. Although I do strongly believe that vaccines and natural latex can be made safer.
Furthermore, if a child has an atypical profile associated with cytokines, IgE, and NGF a vaccine should not be administered in my opinion. An explanation for this reasoning is described in the book "Vaccine Delivery and Autism - The Latex Connection"
MjD
What part of "please provide evidence and stop plugging your book" do you fail to understand?
The equitorial production and global consumption of Hevea brasiliensis natural-rubber is increasing not descreasing.
Medical science needs to answer this question quickly and then make changes to their herd vaccination policies:
Why insult an atopic child with vaccines that are known to shift immunity towards Th2?
Furthermore, it is clear that vaccines contaminated with latex proteins (e.g., Hev-b allergens) can induce cross reactivity affecting atopy and allergy-induced regressive autism, especially in atopic children.
Finally, before a childhood vaccination ask the medical professional if the vaccine has a latex warning. The FDA now requires such warnings. If the vaccine has a latex warning refuse the vaccine. Thus, parents can affect their child's intellectual fate with such vaccine decisions.
MjD
Prove it.
Will these anti-vaccine contortions never end?
If the child has no latex sensitivity, why should they refuse the vaccine? I am not allergic to shellfish, so I do not refuse shrimp. But I am allergic to raw citrus fruit, so when I order iced tea, I always make sure to request no lemon. What's the sense in refusing something you're not allergic to?
Also,
Again you repeat this claim, but I don't see you providing any evidence that it's true. Have you determined that allergy-induced regressive autism is even a thing? In all my life, I've only heard one person talk about it -- you. That makes it very hard for me to take you seriously.
Michael J. Dochniak,
your reply to me does not answer the question I asked.
Just wondering ... why latex, specifically? Why does not every allergy cause this? Or why does does not *any* other allergy cause this? I find it odd that, out of the million and one things that one *might* be allergic to, this and only this causes this dramatic effect.
I think that Mr. Dochniak has adequately proven that he has no data supporting his hypothesis that latex causes autism. As regards testing his hypothesis, that was a bit of a trick question: it has already been tested.
Mr. Dochniak's hypothesis - as outlined in his two books - is that latex proteins, RNA, DNA etc. leach from the stoppers and cause an "atypical adaptive immune response" that results in "regressive autism". Unbeknownst to Mr. Dochniak, there has already been an experiment that tests this hypothesis.
As I (and dozens of other helpful readers) have tried to point out to Mr. Dochniak, the use of latex stoppers in vaccines (and the use of latex in medicine in general) has sharply declined since the 1990's. As has also been pointed out (repeatedly), the reported prevalence of autism - including "regressive autism" - has increased during that period. This finding is inconsistent with Mr. Dochniak's hypothesis (as has also been repeatedly mentioned).
Mr. Dochniak's reply that the world consumption of latex has increased is a complete non sequitur. His hypothesis is not about tyre dust or world latex consumption but about vaccines. If he wishes to segue to a Jeremiad about how latex in tyres is causing autism, he should at least have the courage to admit that his hypothesis about latex and vaccines is wrong or, at least, unsupported by data.
Unfortunately, we will never see Mr. Dochniak admit that his hypothesis is faulty - he won't even admit that he hasn't got any data to support it. All he can do, apparently, is endless parrot bits of immunology lore he has dredged from various texts and articles. Even his arguments of an "atypical adaptive immune response" fail to explain how that - even if it occurred - would cause autism.
As I see it, Mr. Dochniak has accomplished the rare "detailed fail" (in the words of one of my students).
Personally, I'm finished trying to pound knowledge into Mr. Dochniak's resisting brain. His (dead parrot) hypothesis is supported primarily (it seems) by his financial interest in a latex-substitute rather than anything even vaguely resembling data.
Prometheus
Prometheus and Responders,
It is also very important that pregnant women avoid exposure to natural-latex. If your interested in how antigenic latex-proteins affect fetal development read the book "Allergies and Autism" from Nova Science.
If your interested in why the antigenic latex-proteins are particularly dangerous when associated with immunologic adjuvants, compared to other antigens, read the book "Vaccine Delivery and Autism - The Latex Connection"
In one aspect, allergy-induced regressive autism is an etiology wherein the incidence and prevalence of adaptive-immune responses affects the expression of neurotrophin, altering cognition through atypical neural growth and nerural pruning.
MjD
Mr. Dochniak, why should we believe you're correct?
You still have failed to provide evidence that "allergy-induced regressive autism" occurs, Mr Dochniak. You have gone so far now as to provide advice to pregnant women regarding natural latex exposure, but still do nothing more than point us at some books (inadequately cited; you didn't even provide an author).
I did a few quick searches on Google and Amazon using those titles as keywords. I did not find the books, but I did find plenty of dubious references discussing non-latex allergies and a purported connection to autism. Most commonly, casein and gluten, of course. (Those two friends of the fad autism treatment, the GFCF diet.)
So you are still the only source I can find claiming a link between latex, specifically, and autism. (Which makes me think who the author of those books most likely is.) And you have a vested interest in such a link, so as Gray Falcon said, why should we believe you? You offer nothing but assertions, you avoid answering questions, and you seem mostly interested in hawking books. What exactly are you trying to achieve here?
Calli,
If you scroll to the top of this blog, Orac initiated this discussion based on a book press-release (i.e., Vaccine Delivery and Autism - The Latex Connection). It's the book I co-authored and that which Prometheus refuses to read.
My sincere responses and best efforts to answer blogger questions, in the most efficient and logical way, continues to be a goal of mine.
MjD
"It's the book I co-authored and that which Prometheus refuses to read."
I think we all refuse to read it as you could easily provide the pertinent information by the simple act of telling us what it is and where you got it from. This action would have nil cost to you as you should already have a least one - if not several - copy of your book to hand which should contain the information assuming you conducted your research and wrote up your references properly.
Your ideas are seperate from the medium they are presented in. There is no logical or functional reason to read the book in order to discuss your ideas. Continued pimping of your book can considered commercial spam and may well see you reported for breach of terms and conditions of posting.
If your posts here are representative of the content of your book then it would be a clear waste of time and money even trying.
Put some damn effort in you lazy-assed pillock and start showing us that you have done the work you claim to have done. We are not here to do your work for you and it is positively shameful for you to continue in the way you are doing.
195 "The half-life of this discussion is three years from next Tuesday".
Posted by: lilady | August 21, 2011 4:11 PM
Well, it's Tuesday and the half life of this discussion is three years.
Stick a fork in Dochniak, he's (over)done.
Dedj,
Thank you for your response. Upon request, I'd gladly send you a free copy, postage paid, of the book "Vaccine Delivery and Autism - The Latex Connection". My e-mail address is listed in the press release above. One request, please do not send your free copy of the book to Prometheus.
MjD
@ Dedj: One request, please do not send your free copy of the book to me.
If you're willing to send out free books, then I'm sure you're willing to post your information here.
"Upon request, I'd gladly send you a free copy, postage paid, of the book "Vaccine Delivery and Autism - The Latex Connection""
Again, why should I do your work for you? I have other books to read in my spare time.
If you believe you have been asked specific questions - and you believe you are willing to make an honest attempt at answering them - then why not get around to answering them?
None of the information you would need to provide is medium dependant, nor is any of it likely to be owned by you as it's unlikely you own all the journals, periodical and reports that the information originates in. You would lose nothing as no one here is likely to buy (or borrow, or read for free) your book until you can demonstrate that it is worth doing so. So far your posts have been actively discouraging.
If you did do original research - who did you submit it to and why did they refuse it?
Your continued insistance at plugging your book is getting you dangerously close to being reported as in breach of the terms and conditions of posting here in regards to commercial postings.
Please learn to behave properly and start demonstrating that you have done even the beginning of the work you imply you have.
Offering me a free book is suspiciously like a false and manipulative attempt at appearing open and willing to engage in discussion. As your constant unexplained refusal to engage in any proper discussion demonstrates, you are far from being open about your views.
Don't try to pull a dodge like that here again. We are all old enough and world-worn enough to see right through it in an instant and call you out on it. How shameful of you to think you could get away with it.
Dedj,
Orac has given me no indication that I'm in breach of the terms and conditions of posting here. If I've offended you or others (excluding Prometheus)in any way please accept my apology.
Sincerely,
Michael J. Dochniak
If you're truly apologetic, present your evidence here. The world doesn't revolve around you, sugar, we can't sit around waiting for your book to arrive.
#219
Why am I not surprised?
I've been so intrigued by Mr. Dochniak's dance of the seven veils around his hypothesis that I've even tried to find the book in regional libraries. So far, I can't find any library - not even the Library of Congress - that has a copy. I can't see spending even $9.95 (plus shipping) based on what Mr. Dochniak has (inadvertently) revealed so far about his "research".
I'm touched that Mr. Dochniak excluded me from this apology - it means that I've managed to make him uncomfortable. If he can leverage that discomfort into a thoughtful re-examination of his hypothesis, my goal will be accomplished.
Prometheus
"Dedj,
Orac has given me no indication that I'm in breach of the terms and conditions of posting here."
Orac doesn't set the terms and conditions, ScienceBlogs do. Orac would not be the one to inform you about it, unless he decides to take it upon himself to warn you, or unless his agreement with ScienceBlogs allows him to do so.
It's rather worrying and rather telling that you need a formal notification from the person that you percieve to be the relevant formal authourity in order to accept that your behaviour may be proceedurally unsupported and ethically untenable.
Just because Orac hasn't warned you, doesn't mean you aren't commiting a breach of the T&C, or - and several people have already heavily commentated on this behaviour of yours - it doesn't mean that your constant pimping of your book is proper and ethical behaviour.
No formal warning should be required.
Again, do not try to pull slick stunts and dodges, they get spotted easily and you will get called out on them.
"If I've offended you or others (excluding Prometheus)in any way please accept my apology."
Not a chance. Your behaviour was commented on quite heavily, multiple times by multiple people over a period of several days yet you took no action even when the appropriate action would have had zero additional cost to you, and even when this was pointed out to you.
Your apology appears similar to a tactical attempt at appearing reasonable and conciliatory whilst making no effort to actually be either.
Apology definetly not accepted, and refused with extreme suspicion and disbelief that it is honest and real.
Michael:
My sincere responses and best efforts to answer blogger questions, in the most efficient and logical way, continues to be a goal of mine.
That is a very good goal, but you seem to be having trouble achieving it. You aren't conveying a lot of information; you're pretty much just reiterating the same thing (the basic claim of your book, and "please read my book") over and over again. If you aren't interested in actually answering questions, then what really is your point in participating? You've said "read my book" enough times. What's seriously the point in saying it again?
As far as the terms of service, I'm not aware of you violating them, and if the plugging of your book is a violation, then it is up to ScienceBlogs to pursue it. However, you are doing a fine job of making a fool of yourself. As far as I'm concerned if you wish to be an ineffective communicator giving people every reason to believe there is no substance to your claims, then that is certainly permissible. Besides, if ScienceBlogs does accuse you of plugging your book, you can easily defend yourself by showing them this thread. They'll see what your efforts have achieved in terms of your book's reputation.
Michael's apology probably isn't genuine. We told him what he was doing wrong, why it was wrong, and what he could do to correct his actions. His "apology" seems to be trying to paint us as flipping out at him for no reason, even though anyone who can read this thread can see otherwise. Two possible conclusions: 1) He's dishonest, and his work shouldn't be trusted, or 2) He's incapable of seeing the blindingly obvious, and his work shouldn't be trusted.
I remember in college the professor would ask us to read a chapter(s) or book and it would be discussed during class. This continues to be an efficient means of discussion enhancement and learning.
Therefore, I kindly ask interested "Respectful Insolence" bloggers to read the book "Vaccine Delivery and Autism - The Latex Connection". Then, on November 1st 2011 I'll be here to participate in a lively and informative discussion on said connection.
Please respond if you are able to participate.
MjD
Stop spamming your book and answer the questions.
The fact that this thread is going on & on some three months after the OP is probably proof positive of the post's title about never-ending contortions.
All the more so since the reason for the ongoing thread activity is... well... anti-vaccine contortions.
Exactly, and Mr. Dochniak is only proving how true Orac's last paragraph is:
Mr. Dochniak,
If this is a seminar, you are not the instructor and don't get to assign the reading. Feel free to set up your own blog somewhere and do so.
I remember in college the professor would present some material ahead of time, and deposit copies of the book at the library for us to read. The equivalent here would be to make it available online, for free. That would increase the chances of getting people to actually discuss it, on your soon-to-be-created blog, come November.
I also recall that professors who assigned their own books, and only their own books, were often laughed at. And there was one professor who pressured his colleagues into using his book; the year he was on sabbatical everyone suddenly assigned a different calculus book. This did not help his reputation.
Mr. Dochniak makes assertions, and when pressed for evidence, points to his book. Repeat ad infinitum. Could it be that the book itself consists of nothing but assertions too?
Nah. He couldn't be that vapid, could he?
Chris wrote:
"Because, to the anti-vaccine, first and foremost, it's always about the vaccines. Always. No matter what the evidence shows. Never forget that"
The evidence shows that latex-contaminated vaccines are unsafe. As proof, the FDA requires natural-latex warnings on vaccines.
Exposure to natural-latex in vaccines can cause sensitization, adverse allergic reactions, and even death through anaphylactic shock.
Atopic children are particularly sensitive to such insult.
MjD
Prove it. Prove it here!
Post your evidence here. Post the actual research here. Post the journal, title, date and authors of the papers here.
Until then, you are just a crank here.
Do not reference your book here anymore. Only post real evidence here.
And by "here" I mean on this blog, in the comments.
Do you understand?
Do you have any evidence this is true for pediatric vaccines? Don't ask us to read your book, you're nowhere near as important as you think you are.
Clearly, Gray Falcon, he does not. "Does what you claim exist?" "Read my book." That is all he says. Well, apart from a condescending depiction of a college professor assigning reading and then asking his class to discuss it, as if we are his students. He seems to be under the delusion that we are here to learn from him. Au contraire. We are here to find out if he has anything worth learning. To date, he has provided nothing whatsoever, so I am forced to conclude as many others already have -- Michael Dochniak clearly has nothing to contribute. He has no interest in discussion, only in reminding everyone that he has written a Book, and so he is an Author, and doesn't that make him Important?
Madder (#240):
I can't speak to his most recent (self-published) book, but his first (self-published) book was nothing but unrelated and (based on the assertions made) poorly-understood medical and biological "factoids" strung together into an implausible hypothesis.
I could find no data, but I can't claim to have read the whole book - I would put it down whenever I reached a congested stretch of unsupported assertions and had to return it to the library before I could finish it (kudos to the librarian who found a copy in an obscure library in Minnesota and got it for me on a two-week interlibrary loan).
I can't decide if it is chutzpah or narcissism that makes Mr. Dochniak think that he can schedule a "seminar" on Orac's 'blog. I suggest he do what so many professors are doing today in seminar classes - send a pdf copy of the "assigned reading" to every "student". I'd be happy to read the assigned chapter and return on the appointed day to discuss it with him.
In fact, I believe that's what we've all been asking for - some evidence that Mr. Dochniak knows something about the subject and has a coherent argument supported by data. So far...well, the evidence hasn't supported his claim to know anything about autism, allergy, immunity or, for that matter, biology.
"Read my book!" How predictable.
Prometheus
Kudos to you Prometheus, I guess Mr. Dochniak isn't comfortable with your level of knowledge on the subject and thus, not his target audience. So Mr. Dochniak, perhaps you would grace us with a copy of your "book" unless, of course, you aren't comfortable with a critical assessment of it by the various academics and medicos that comment here.
Thanks, Prometheus. It seems to ring a bell-- I think maybe you mentioned that you'd managed to obtain a copy of self-publication #1. Your characterization is exactly how I'd imagined it-- a handful of factoids mixed with liberal doses of misunderstood-oids, incorrect-oids, and WTF-oids. Would it be groundless speculation to suggest that it's unlikely you found any effort to disprove the hypothesis?
Madder,
I asked my helpful librarian to find copies of Mr. Dochniak's books back in May when he first emerged to flog his new book. Apparently, nobody on the university's interlibrary loan networks (they belong to three, I believe) had a copy of the most recent book, but they did find a copy of the first book (pub. 2010), which I received in July on a two-week loan (Note: most interlibrary loan searches - even for obscure technical texts - are completed in much less than two months. Mr. Dochniak's first book must truly be a "limited edition").
I don't believe I commented on this 'blog about the book, mostly because Mr. Dochniak seems to be primarily pushing his most recent work. Also, I wasn't proud of not being able to get through a 132-page book in two weeks, even if it was full of gross inaccuracies.
In the part I read (maybe the first fifty pages or so, plus some sections from other parts of the book), I did not see him present any new data supporting his hypothesis. He certainly used bits and pieces of data developed by other researchers that supported his hypothesis (or, at least, were not inconsistent with it), but I failed to find any independent research or any description of how his hypothesis explains the data that would refute it.
Prometheus
Prometheus,
Let me clarify:
The first book entitled "Allergies and Autism" was published through Nova Science Publishers and the target audience is Scholars.
The second book "Vaccine Delivery and Autism - The Latex Connection" was self-published through Createspace and the target audience is anyone interested in reducing the incidence of allergy-induced regressive autism.
Since I own the copyright on the second book, I could would gladly post requested parts of the book. (See insidelook).
Would this be acceptable Mr. Orac?
MjD
Chris wrote:
"Post your evidence here. Post the actual research here. Post the journal, title, date and authors of the papers here"
At the end of each chapter, from the book "Vaccine Delivery and Autism - The Latex Connection", there is a reference section.
Chris, I'll post the references from one of the chapters for your satisfaction.
MjD
ScienceMom wrote:
"So Mr. Dochniak, perhaps you would grace us with a copy of your "book" unless, of course, you aren't comfortable with a critical assessment of it by the various academics and medicos that comment here"
Yes, send me the shipping address.
MjD
Riiiight. Just as the target audience for all those "Who's Who in the Janitorial Arts" books is all of those other people who are just aching for a reference work that covers that important field, not the people who long to see their own names in those books describing them as important...
I'm gonna take a wild guess, Mr. Dochniak, did your road to publication with Nova Science Publishers begin with an unsolicited e-mail from them soliciting whatever papers an important researcher like you had to contribute?
Excellent! I eagerly await my copy.
Man, just stop putting nickels into Dochnilodeon already.
Sorry for the confusion, Prometheus. I remembered something in a comment about interlibrary loan having a difficult time finding a Dochniak book, and leapt to a conclusion.
Chris (#250),
Below are the references from Chapter 8 of the book "Vaccine Delivery and Autism - The Latex Connection"
1. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/features/counting-autism.html, accessed 1/11/11.
2. J. Worth, âNeonatal sensitization to latexâ Journal of Medical Hypotheses 54, 5 (2000):729-33.
3. The Childrenâs Hospital of Philadelphia, Vaccine Education Center,
http://www.chop.edu/service/vaccine-education-center/hot-topics/aluminu…, accessed 1/11/11.
4. A. Antico et al., âAnaphylaxis by Latex Sublingual Immunotherapy,â Allergy 61, 10 (2006):1236-1237.
5. C.A. Molloy et al., âElevated Cytokine Levels in Children with Autism Spectrum Disorder, J. Neuroimmunol 172, 1-2 (2006):198-205.
6. UCDAVIS Health System, âChildren with autism have distinctly different immune system reactions compared to typical children,â May 5, 2005, http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/newsroom/releases/archives/mind/2005/immun…, accessed 1/11/11.
7. Sergio Bonini et al., âCirculating Nerve Growth Factor Levels Are Increased in Humans with Allergic Diseases and Asthma,â PNAS. 93, 20 (1996):10955-10960.
8. U. Otten, P. Ehrhard, and R. Peck, âNerve Growth Factor Induces Growth and Differentiation of Human B Lymphocytes Proc Natl Acad Sci USA 86 (1989):10059-10063.
9. UniSci, âNGF Proteins Present at Birth Linked to Later Autism,â http://www.unisci.com/stories/20012/0426011.html, accessed 1/11/11.
10. M.J. Dochniak, D.H. Dunn, Allergies and Autism, Allergies and Infectious Disease Series (NY: Nova Science Publisher, 2010).
11. Gehan A. Mostafa et al., âAllergic Manifestations in Autistic Children: Relation to Disease Severity, J. Pediatr. Neurol. 6, 2 (2008):115-123.
12. C. Shen et al., âA Proteomic Investigation of B Lymphocytes in an Autistic Family: A Pilot Study of Exposure to Natural Rubber Latex (NRL) May Lead to Autism, J. Mol. Neurosci. (2010).
13. World Allergy Organization, âSub-Lingual Immunotherapy,â WAO Journal (2009): 233-281, http://www.worldallergy.org/publications/slit-wao-pp_final.pdf, accessed 1/11/11.
14. Goodyear Chemical, Product Data Sheet, NATSYN® 2200/2210, http://www.americasinternational.com/product_sheets/Goodyear/PDS/Natsyn…, accessed 1/11/11.
Here's a segment from the book "Vaccine Delivery and Autism - The Latex Connection" Chapter 9
Can Hevea brasiliensis genetic material leach into vaccines?
In speculation, genetic material in dry natural rubber,
including plasmids and transposons, could leach into the
vaccineâs aqueous-solution. For example, according to the
cellular origin hypothesis or vagrancy hypothesis, viruses
can evolve from bits of DNA or RNA that âescapeâ from
the genes. The escaped DNA or RNA could come from
plasmids that are pieces of naked DNA or RNA that can
move between cells or transposons, which are molecules of
DNA that replicate and move around to different positions
within the genes of the cell. Once called âjumping genes,â
transposons are examples of mobile genetic elements and
could be the evolution of some viruses.
It is known that both DNA and RNA can be extracted
from HDNR. For example, research has shown that expression
of Hevein genes in natural latex has been detected. (Reference 5)
A study that evaluated particulate ribonucleoprotein
components of HDNR showed that a significant proportion
of the particulate RNA is found in the rubber layer. (Reference 6)
Messenger RNA (mRNA) is a molecule of RNA
encoding a chemical âblueprintâ for a protein product.
mRNA is transcribed from a DNA template, and carries
coding information to the sites of protein synthesis.
In continuation, a study has shown that the latex
allergen Hev-b 5 transcript is widely distributed after
subcutaneous injection in BALB/c mice of their DNA vaccine.
The researchers concluded that the rapid and widespread
appearance of the Hev-b 5 transcript in the injected mice
confirms that DNA is translocated from the injection site,
transcribed, and expressed in immune and non-immune
tissues after injection. (Reference 7)
It is further speculated that persistent infection from
surviving viruses, inclusive with Hevea genetic material, could maintain Hevea-allergen (i.e., Hev-b protein) transcription and its associated memory B-cell population.
In summary,viruses that produce Hevea-allergens will not allow the latex allergy to go into remission. In an effort to better understand vaccine induced atopy and multiple chemical sensitivity, research efforts need to explore the viability of the vagrancy hypothesis wherein genetic material from HDNR leaches into a vaccine comprising live or attenuated viruses. Scientists have shown that a viral vector can be used to make the Hevea-allergens. For example, the Hev-b 1 and Hev-b 3 allergens have been successfully produced using a chimeric tobacco mosaic virus.(Reference 8)
References:
5. Deng Xiao-Dong et al., âIsolation and Analysis of
Hevein Gene and Its Promoter Sequence,â Acta
Botanica Sinica, 44, 8 (2002): 936-940.
6. A.I. McMullen, âParticulate Ribonucleoprotein
Components of Hevea-brasiliensis Latex,â Biochem. J.
85 (1962):491-495.
7. Jay E. Slater et al., âThe Latex Allergen Hev b 5
Transcript Is Widely Distributed after Subcutaneous
Injection in BALB/c Mice of Its DNA Vaccine,â
J. Allergy Clin. Immunol. 102 (1998):469-75.
8. H. Breiteneder et al., âRapid Production of
Recombinant Allergens in Nicotiana Benthamiana
and Their Impact on Diagnosis and Therapy,â Int.
Arch. Allergy Immunol., 124, 1-3 (2001):48-50.
MjD
Oh my! I just happened to be browsing through some old comment threads and saw that Mr. Dochniak had posted an excerpt of his new book - how bold!
Well, let me get right to it, since I see that it has been languishing since 26 August.
While some amount of DNA might persist in dry natural rubber, the RNA in that material would degrade within minutes (if not faster). I bring this up because of later assertions Mr. Dochniak makes.
This may be how viruses originated, but there is no data supporting this hypothesis (i.e. nobody has yet seen a virus evolve from cellular DNA (or RNA)). There are other virus origins hypotheses that are equally plausible that don't involve a cellular origin of viruses and, in fact, explain the multiple genome types of viruses much better.
Unfortunately for Mr. Dochniak, "reference 5" is available to me. In the article, the researchers discuss extracting DNA and RNA from the living plant and the gene - the hevein gene - was expressed "in the latex", meaning in the cells that make the latex. To repeat, the mRNA is retained within the plant cells (unless they are disrupted) and lasts only a few minutes (at most) outside the cell.
Reference 6 - from 1962 (!) - is about extracting ribosomal RNA (then known as "particulate RNA") from (and I quote from the article, which is avilable free on-line): "... fresh centrifuged latex in a freeze-dried condition..." This is a way to preserve RNA, which is why they treated their specimen in this fashion. It is not - so far as I know - part of the rubber manufacturing process to keep the latex in a freeze-dried state.
True, but irrelevant, since mRNA would not survive the rubber manufacturing process.
Again, unfortunately for Mr. Dochniak, the authors of the study (his "reference 7") describe their process a bit more. From the paper:
While I might quibble about whether or not an expression vector (a virus or plasmid that has been modified to carry a foreign gene into a cell) is a "vaccine", their purpose was to have the animals' cells express the protein and, thus, act as in situ "allergy shots".
The process of making an expression vector is not trivial, as I would know, having made quite a few in my time. It is highly improbable that this would happen in nature and even more improbable that it would happen repeatedly, as Mr. Dochniak asserts.
In short, Mr. Dochniak's novice-level understanding of biology has led him to make a number of errors:
[1] He assumes that since mRNA can be found in fresh latex, that it is be found in processed rubber (it isn't).
[2] He speculates - wildly - that bits of H. brasiliensis DNA (or RNA) will somehow develop into a virus, although this phenomenon has never before been observed.
[3] He confuses a viral vector genetically engineered to carry a gene into mammalian cells with a "vaccine".
[4] He speculates that H. brasiliensis DNA leached from rubber stoppers in vaccine vials will somehow "evolve" into a virus or plasmid that carries the latex protein genes into the recipient and inserts it into their genome, absent any data showing that this can happen at all, let alone thousands of times. Alternately, he may be speculating that the vaccine-strain viruses (in live-virus vaccines) are capable of acting as expression vectors, something that has also never been demonstrated.
And these are only the mistakes that I found in a 383-word excerpt of his book - presumably the best piece of writing in the book.
Based on what I've seen here, I see no reason to "buy the book". Mr. Dochniak has humiliated himself in print - again.
Prometheus
Dearest Prometheus,
Here's an exerpt from the book "Vaccine Delivery and Autism - The Latex Connection" (Chapter 12, page 77)
High-functioning autism, a gift from Mother Nature
Differences in thought, expression, behavior
Mankind will know
Mankind will savor
Science~writing~music~art
Special honor, attention, and favor
Evolutionary distinction
Do not waiver
__________
Low-functioning autism, a mishap of medical science
Regression of thought, expression, behavior
Mankind will inject
Mankind will suspect
Atopy~neural over-connectivity~mental disability
Special care
Forced detention
Reaffirms
Vaccine-safety evolution
Furthermore, described below is a proposed mechanism of how vaccination and natural-latex exposure, i.e., sublingual absorption of the Hevea-allergens, may affect the inidence of allergy-induced regressive autism. (Chapter 8, page 49)
1. An atopic infant is subjected to vaccination, triggering two immunological branches; a cell-mediated immune response (TH1) and a humoral immune response (TH2).
2. The atopic infant has, or acquires, Hevea-allergen sensitivity increasing TH2 immunity (e.g., increased vaccinations contaminated with natural-latex , mouthing natural-latex products including baby bottle nipples, pacifiers, teething rings etc...)
3. In atopy, the under-expression of the anti-inflammatory cytokine interleukin-10 further increases TH2 immunity.
4. Increased TH2 immunity alters NGF expression affecting neural growth and prunning triggering allergy-induced regressive autism.
References are available in the book.
MjD
"Read my book."
How original.
The hypothesis outlined in #259 fails to explain why this process wouldn't happen with any antigen - in fact, why any allergy isn't accompanied by autism.
Frankly, I've grown tired of trying to edit Mr. Dochniak's book after-the-fact. He's displayed his lack of knowledge to my satisfaction.
Prometheus
Prometheus,
A child's immune system determines what is an antigen or non-antigen, not medical science.
With certainty, immunological evidence shows that the multiple proteins (i.e., suspected antigens) in Hevea brasiliensis natural-latex can induce cross-reactivity affecting atopy which in simple terms means multiple allergies.
In children, the incidence and prevalence of allergies affects the expression of neuron growth factor (NGF), causing atypical neuological development. Please review NGF and autism studies.
If one recognizes that "adaptive immunity" is part of evolution, antigen recognition is the key to understanding the aetiology of allergy-induced regressive autism.
MjD
Exactly. And why wouldn't a child exhibit the recognised symptoms of allergies, not just atopy and quite possibly anaphylaxis but become autistic instead? Furthermore, I have not seen any evidence presented of Mr. Dochniak's hypothesis of "allergy-induced regressive autism" aside from his own empty assertions and of course, "buy my book".
I thank you Prometheus for saving me some trouble for my next blogpost about Mr. Dochniak.
And gravity is what makes an apple fall, not Newton's laws, but Newton's laws are a very useful tool for understanding why the apple fell.
Given that you are attempting to contribute to medical science as it pertains to immunology, and that you then go on to discuss what immunology tells you about latex allergies. I'm therefore surprised you'd suggest medical science is of no use in this context. Or perhaps what you said was just a bit of snark and not really a well thought out argument.
You do a good job of spelling big words, but I'm not convinced you understand what they mean, because what you've just said is about as meaningful as saying that if one recognizes that pennies are currency, then that's crucial to understanding the Illuminati's plan to dominate the world through international currency regulation. The first part is not only irrelevant to the conclusion (and certainly not "key"), your arguing a link to something that is not satisfactorily demonstrated to exist.
Which, of course, remains the key problem with your position. Like testing to see what currency the tooth fairy prefers, you fail to first determine whether the tooth fairy even exists. The only references you will give are to ask us to do your homework for you, or to read your book. I have no doubt whatsoever that your book is more of the same.
Ew -- rereading my comment, I notice that I said "your" when I meant "you're" at one point. (I also have a sentence fragment in there.) I humbly apologize to all who share my affliction of cringing at this particular word substitution.
Mr. Dochniak, not realising that he's been beaten, retorts:
True but, like most of what Mr. Dochniak asserts, not relevant to the issue at hand.
Again true, but also true about most allergens, such as bee venom, milk, nuts, pollen, etc. It is exceedingly rare that a complex mixture of proteins and other substances (e.g. latex) will not have multiple proteins (and also multiple epitopes) that stimulate an immune response. Not unique to latex and not relevant to autism.
While the influence of "allergies" (immune reactions, more precisely) on NGF is fairly well supported, it still begs the question of how latex manages to cause autism and milk, nuts, bee venom, eggs, etc. don't.
Also, the link between "immune responses affect NGF expression" and "atypical neurological development" is less well-supported (or, at least, the clinical relevance of the effect is in question). And conflating "atypical neurological development" and "autism" is a "bridge too far" (i.e. not supported by data).
Again, IF this were true, it would still fail to explain why latex, but not milk, nuts, pollen, etc. would cause autism. As it is, this hypothesis is not supported by the available data and the statement is reduced to a massive non seqitur.
There are a number of tantalising bits of data suggesting that autism - in at least some people - has an immune component. Two massive issues remain unclear at this point:
[1] Is the immune "dysfunction" seen real or an artifact of the testing process?
[2] Is the immune dysfunction the cause of autism or merely an effect of autism (i.e. does whatever caused autism in the individual also result in immune dysfunction?)?
I know I said I was done with Mr. Dochniak's flawed hypotheses, but here I am, sucked back into the madness once again. I hope my resolve will be stronger the next time.
Prometheus
Pro(tagonist)metheus,
It is widely recognized that many of the Hevea brasiliensis natural-latex proteins are defense proteins. These proteins, in combination with the sticky-coagulative effect of latex, are thought to inhibit insult from preditory organisms.
In some humans, exposure to such proteins confuse adaptive immunity to form IgE antibodies that recognize benefical exogenous and endogenous proteins. In short, the natural-latex proteins can act as a catalyst for the development of multiple chemical sensitivity.
A developing nervous system is affected by atypical immunity based on the up-regulation/down-regulation of endogenous proteins (e.g., NGF, cytokines, Nuclear factor Kappa B)
Increased exposure to natural-latex proteins, over the last half century, has generated a growing population of children and adults with enhanced ADAPTIVE-IMMUNITY CAPABILITIES.
So, it's time to reduce natural-latex induced atopy. Refuse vaccines that have a latex warning.
MjD
Sciencemom,
I reviewed your blog titled "Just the Vax" at http://justthevax.blogspot.com/
Latex warnings that are present on some vaccines are not discussed. Please consider such a discussion...
MjD
I will not consider giving a stage to such an irrational idea. We prefer to focus on the facts regarding vaccines and showcasing irresponsible, bush-league dilettantes, much like yourself. So I will invariably discuss your latex conjecture, just not in the way you would like.
Oh, and if your lack of scientific acumen wasn't enough to make yourself look foolish, then trying to mock a commenter's name furthered that objective.
Science Mom, I don't think it was much of a mock. I do believe that in the story that is this thread, Prometheus is the protagonist! The "hero" version of the protagonist. And Mr. Dochniak is definitely the very inept antagonist.
Chris,
Prometheus is a "hero", a teacher, and a student whom refuses to read the book "Vaccine Delivery and Autism - The Latex Connection". Respectful insolence...
MjD
I wouldn't have believed that anyone would have been so inept in trying to make an argument, but dochniak certainly as proved me wrong in that regard, from his constant shilling of his book, his persistent refusal to provide evidence when asked, his childish name calling, and his utter dearth of knowledge of basic biology.
@ Chris, I like your take on Mr. Dochniak's attempted mocking. I think the readers here would like to know that I offered to read his book and requested an electronic copy, which would be monumentally easier for both of us, but he refused.
Mr. Dochniak, you have received far more respect than you have earned or shown to others here. Is it in your definition of respect that, when Prometheus has pointed out several glaring errors in what is merely an excerpt from your book, and you are able to come up with no better response than to merely repeat your accusations and repeat "Read my book, read my book" without even offering an assurance "that point you make about RNA and DNA never even once having been observed to transform into viruses? I address that in my book in Chapter X", Prometheus is obligated to accept that?? If so then your grasp of the word needs serious work.
The "Respectfull Insolence" ScienceBlog advertises vaccines on its top page. One such advertisement promotes a Meningococcal vaccine.
As an example, Sanoti Pasteur sells a Meningococcal vaccine under the tradename Menactra and warns that latex is used in the vial stopper.
http://www.menactra.com/what_is_menactra_safety.html
Now that your aware of the dangers associated with natural- latex proteins, would you subject your child to such a vaccine?
MjD
@Michael J. Dochniak
You're aware, I'm sure, that ScienceBlogs uses context-based advertising and that Orac has little to no control over what ads appear? Key words in the article are used to determine ad content, as are your browsing habits.
Now, what's your point?
Todd W.,
It's clear that big pharma, and the FDA, burdens the parents of children getting vaccines to decide if latex contamination is acceptable or unacceptable.
Reduce the incidence of allergy-induced regressive autism, don't point that latex-contaminated vaccine at our children.
MjD
@Michael J. Dochniak
So you had no point with bringing up the fact that a random ad over which Orac has no control happened to appear here. Got it.
You have yet to establish that such a thing exists. Show us the peer reviewed scientific literature that shows latex (or any other allergy) induced regressive autism. And do not say, "It's in my book," because your book, sad to say, is not peer reviewed scientific literature.
So, if you please, present the independent evidence to support your case. I doubt you will, as you have not done so thus far, but one can hope that you'll actually develop some manner of intellectual integrity.
And you have yet to make that case. Your warped agenda is quite clear however and is nothing more than a new spin on "it must be the vaccines".
Michael:
Others have pointed out already that it's out of Orac's control; it's like ads almost everywhere on the Internet -- it's fed by a script that looks for keywords and then makes a fairly boneheaded attempt to serve up ads that suit the audience. Sometimes it's vaccines. Sometimes it's homeopathy, which is a bit hilarious. Right now, for me, it's Shutterfly, which is probably not related to anything in the thread and is just one of the "random ad not likely to be offensive anywhere, but they've paid to be viewed X number of times, so we'll randomly stick it in all the sites in our ad network at some point".
I like watching for humorously inept ad pairings, like when somebody's railing against Republicans and the ad server helpfully presents an ad for Michele Bachmann. :-D
Michael Dochniak:
This is a textbook example of ad hominem argumentation! Orac is supposedly losing credibility because of the context-sensitive advertisements appearing on his website? Please.
Since the evidence available suggests this phenomenon does not exist, your demand seems rather ridiculous.
All in all, Orac's title for this post is looking more and more accurate.
(For exhibit 'B' of anti-vaccine contortions, just look at Th1Th2's ongoing ridiculousness.)
So much for resolve.
Mr. Dochniak takes up the shovel once again:
From the Merriam-Webster Dictionary:
If I were susceptible to flattery (I'm not - I see it as a species of manipulation), I'd be flattered.
So far, so good. The latex - like substances in the sap of may vascular plants - has substances in it to physically entrap and harm insects that are munching on the plant. A large number of plants have "defense proteins" and non-protein defence compounds - many of them are currently in use as medicines (see: digitalis, taxol).
This sentence is also fairly correct, although I object to the use of the term "confuse", since the cells of the adaptive immune system lack the cognitive ability to be confused. It grossly oversimplifies the process, of course.
If this is the "short" version, perhaps Mr. Dochniak should stick to the "long form". Nothing in the first two sentences leads logically to the third. In fact, the transition between the idea that allergy to latex can result in allergy to other "beneficial exogenous ... proteins" (which can occur with some proteins, although I've not heard of it with latex) and "multiple chemical sensitivity" (a poorly-defined and not generally recognised disorder) is a leap worthy of a spot on the Olypic long-jump team.
"Multiple chemical sensitivity", whether one believes it is real or not, is not characterised by either signs of delayed hypersensitivity (e.g. urticaria, bronchospasm, etc.) or signs and symptoms similar to autism, so I fail to see how Mr. Dochniak "connects the dots" in that fashion.
While expression of these proteins have been observed to be altered during immune responses, the clinical relevance to childhood neurodevelopment remains unclear. In addition, Mr. Dochniak has still not shown that [a] latex "allergy" is related to autism or [b] that latex is somehow unique in its ability to do this. Again, if this were true about latex, it would be equally true for other allergens.
Has natural latex use actually increased - on a per-capita basis - in the US, UK or Europe over the past "half century"? This would be since 1960, mind you. I don't have the answer on the tip of my keyboard, but I recall that Mr. Dochniak has - in the past - used the worldwide increase in latex use as a surrogate for increased per-capita use in the "developed" world (you know, the places where the "autism epidemic" is happening).
The reason I bring this up is that - to my recollection - rubber has been more and more supplanted by synthetic polymers in the past helf century. When I look around me, I see less rubber use, especially in the past two decades and especially in medical uses. I think that Mr. Dochniak is grasping at straws.
I can't quite understand why Mr. Dochniak is fixated on the fact that I won't read his book. He has presented what I can only assume are his most persuasive and best-reasoned arguments and seen them sytematically dismanted. He has also seen his rudimentary understanding of biology and immunology exposed. Does he really think that his writing is going to mesmerise me into ignoring the glaring errors in his reasoning?
Does he really want me to give a scientifically rigorous evaluation of his entire book? Based on the excerpts we have seen so far, that evaluation would not be flattering. If anything, Mr. Dochnial should be begging me to not read his book, because if I did waste the hour or two it would take to read it (and if it is as bad as the "choice bits" we've been shown), I'd feel obligated to apply my own brand of "respectful insolence" to it.
Be careful what you ask for, Mr. Dochniak.
Prometheus
FWIW, I noticed the current ad is for a 100% latex mattress! :)
Do those also cause autism?!?!!
@ squirrelelite: "FWIW, I noticed the current ad is for a 100% latex mattress! :)
Do those also cause autism?!?!!"
Now you are using scare tactics...at this late stage in my life...do I have to worry about "senior adult onset autism"?
*Latex core mattresses* have a real market. I purchased one for me and my husband two years ago and we both absolutely love the resulting restful sleep.
Hint to prospective buyers: Think about the depth (15 ") of the mattress and "consider" a companion low profile (4 ") box spring. My petite daughter never thought about the combined depth and now has to take a running "flying" leap from outside her bedroom to get into the bed.
*Disclaimer: No conflicts of interest and no stock ownership in the manufacturers of latex core mattresses.
All,
Orac states, "Because, to the anti-vaccine, first and foremost, it's always about the vaccines. Always. No matter what the evidence shows. Never forget that.
Dochniak's response:
There is growing public awareness and concern about latex allergies. Natural Rubber Latex (NRL) has been identified as harmful due to its allergenic proteins: many hospitals ban it in their facilities; government (OSHA) has issued warnings about it; and warning labels on vaccine packaging and delivery systems have become mandatory (FDA)
A growing percentage of people - particularly the youngest -have latex sensitivity which can cause a variety of health problems including atopy (i.e., many allergies) and allergy-induced regressive autism. Research indicates that the allergenic proteins from NRL stoppers and syringes can easily "leach" these allergenic proteins into vaccine solutions contained in the pre-loaded syringes. When the vaccine with the leached NRL allergenic proteins is administered to children, it is injected directly into the body - an unmistakable "avenue of exposure".
"Big Pharma's" continued use of NRL in the stoppers and syringes increases allergies and autism. Synthetic rubber (silicone) stoppers and syringes provide an acceptable substitute for NRL and does not have the allergenic proteins. However silicone does cost more than NRL.
The Supreme Court has ruled that parents cannot sue vaccine manufacturers for the vaccines themselves allegedly causing autism. It has not ruled on the question of NRL contamination from vaccine delivery/packaging systems. "Big Pharma" should be responsible for any harm caused by their choice of vaccine packaging.
MjD
@Michael J. Dochniak
Citation needed.
@Michael J. Dochniak
What does "enhanced ADAPTIVE-IMMUNITY CAPABILITIES"? Susceptibility to allergies and/or auto-immune disease?
Do you have any evidence that the use of NRL is stoppers and syringes has increased, or even remained the same (rather than decreasing)?
Prometheus writes (# 281), "Mr. Dochnial should be begging me to not read his book"
Let me respond with a quote:
I know that most menânot only those considered
clever, but even those who are very clever, and capable
of understanding most difficult scientific, mathematical, or
philosophic problemsâcan very seldom discern even the
simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as to oblige
them to admit the falsity of conclusions they have formed,
perhaps with much difficultyâconclusions of which they
are proud, which they have taught to others, and on which
they have built their lives. â Leo Tolstoy (1828-1910)
We've had our fun with the Dochniak chew toy.
Cripes Almighty Dochniak...give it a rest and stop selling your "story" and your ("read my") book...we ain't buying either.
Dochniak:
Apart from the clever characterization, I dare say the Tolstoy quote you have brought in, as if it is the equal of peer-reviewed evidence instead of a distraction, applies more to yourself than it does to Prometheus.
Ooh, a loophole for those who want to try for the "vaccines cause autism" lawsuit jackpot! And an expert (he wrote a BOOK after all) ready to provide expert testimony for the appropriate fee!
How cynical of me.
Thanks Michael
There's certanly some very interesting evidenced based research surrounding immune system responses in infants and young children.
That the physiology of autistic patients show quite clearly an aberrant immune system response may indicate an early life insult that triggers this.
Latex protein - Immune response certainly requires further investigation.
Would not want to be one of those people who exhibit some 'extereme' dogma on this issue.
"Ooh, a loophole for those who want to try for the "vaccines cause autism" lawsuit jackpot! And an expert (he wrote a BOOK after all) ready to provide expert testimony for the appropriate fee!"
Dochniak would first have to be "qualified by the court" in order to offer up "expert testimony" in a court case. The judge would be looking for advanced degrees in biology, (non-industrial) chemistry and actual work experience in those fields as well as publication in peer-reviewed journals detailing controlled studies. A MPH with a concentration in medical epidemiology would also be considered "a qualification" by the court, in addition to a list of other court cases where he has been "qualified" as an expert witness. I don't think Dochniak's self-published silly book would "qualify" him.
How cynical of me.
@lilady:
Precisely my thought-- there's no way he'd get past a Daubert challenge. But it might be fun to watch.
Prometheus says (#265 ),...it still begs the question of how latex manages to cause autism and milk, nuts, bee venom, eggs, etc. don't.
There are approximately two hundred or more dissimilar proteins in Hevea brasiliensis natural-latex. Of these proteins, fifty to sixty are suspected allergens. The World Health Organization (WHO)has assigned names to thirteen of these proteins that have been shown to cause latex allergy (i.e., Hev-b 1-13).
When an infant is insulted with a Hevea-allergen
contaminated vaccine, the immune system is designed
to ârememberâ and eliminate a large number of these
allergens. Essentially, the immune system is forced to
distinguish its many different epitopes. Furthermore, the
receptors that recognize these allergens must be produced
in a huge variety of configurations, essentially one
receptor (at least) for each different Hevea-allergen that is encountered. Thus, the sheer number of antigenic proteins
and epitope complexity associated with Hevea-allergens
makes it a potentially dangerous material. Furthermore,
because of the enormous diversity of Hevea-allergens, a
vast quantity of IgE may be formed that can, through cross-reactivity,bind to beneficial proteins based on structure or epitope homology. It is well documented that latex
allergy can cause cross-reactivity that perpetuates allergic
responses (i.e., atopy) to beneficial proteins including foodstuff proteins.
Reference
2. Tom Greer, Greer Laboratories Inc., âLiterature
Review on Latex-Food Cross-Reactivity 1991-
2006,â http://www.latexallergyresources.org/
FileDownloads/Latex-food%20cross-reactivity%20
review.pdf, accessed 111/11.
Mr. Dochniak, your arms must be tired. Your legs too for that is quite a leap from cross-reactive food allergies to "Hevea-allergen contaminated vaccine". Particularly when there is absolutely no discussion of vaccines whatsoever. Besides, you have never elucidated how a child would go from simple atopy straight to autism via latex allergy and skipping all of the clinical presentations of allergies in between.
Are you really deluded enough to think this postulation of yours will gain any traction?
@Michael J. Dochniak
Um, no. You are begging the question here, in that you have asserted that latex causes autism, yet have thus far provided zero scientific evidence that this is the case.
Hi Jacob - bored today?
Oh no of course not, just be one of those mindless dunderheads who will unquestioningly follow any harebrained contortion of "it must be the vaccines".
And the deletes just keep on coming.....
Science Mom writes (#295), "Besides, you have never elucidated how a child would go from simple atopy straight to autism via latex allergy and skipping all of the clinical presentations of allergies in between"
Let me say that atopy is not "simple" as you state above. In the contrary, atopy is a very complicated immunological response wherein antibodies are produced which may also bind to beneficial proteins.
The hevea-allergens from natural-latex can act as a catalyst for the development of atopy.
Furthermore, it is generally recognized that atypical immunity can affect the expression of neurotrophins which affect neurological development.
In continuation, atypical neurological development from said immunity may affect behaviors possibly resulting in an autism spectrum disorder (i.e., allergy-induced regressive autism).
Unfortunately, some vaccines are contaminated with the hevea-allergens.
In summary, "regressive" autism may be a function of "aggressive" antibodies induced by hevea-allergen exposure. See the book "Allergies and Autism" from Nova Science for details.
MjD
MjD, what's more important to you, science or profit?
"My theory is correct because I say so," is not Science.
Science Mom writes (#295), "Besides, you have never elucidated how a child would go from simple atopy straight to autism via latex allergy and skipping all of the clinical presentations of allergies in between"
Mr. Dochniak, why are you evading my rather straightforward question? Why would sensitisation to Hevea antigens have no clinical allergic presentation such as hives, runny nose/eye and/or anaphylaxis but cause autism? What percentage of autistic children also have latex allergies? And to reiterate Prometheus' question, why wouldn't this also happen with any other allergy antigens, which would also upregulate production of nerve growth factor via Th2 stimulation?
And what would those biomarkers be? Walk me through the biochemical pathways. Go ahead, use big words, I'm a big girl.
Yet inconsistent results are found with regards to neurotrophin levels and autism. Why also wouldn't your latex-induced regressive autists also have other tissue structural abnormalities?
I took you up on your offer and asked for an electronic copy. You refused. I'm sure as hell not buying your drek. Hint: If you're going to pimp your book, you may have better luck on a site that isn't crawling with scientists and physicians.
Gray Falcon asked, MjD, what's more important to you, science or profit?
Response:
The more medical science explores how hevea-allergen exposure may affect the aetiology of allergy-induced regressive autism, the more mankind profits.
MjD
MjD, what's more important to you, science or profit? Do you feel it's right to withhold valuable information from humanity so you can sell your book?
Gray Falcon asked, MjD, what's more important to you, science or profit?
Response:
The more medical science explores how hevea-allergen exposure may affect the aetiology of allergy-induced regressive autism, the more mankind profits.
MjD
Does that mean you'll post the information we request, rather than demand we purchase your book? MjD, what's more important to you, science or profit?
Gray Falcon (#305) asked, Do you feel it's right to withhold valuable information from humanity so you can sell your book?
Mr. Falcon, let's get back on track and discuss why big Pharma continues to use Hevea brasiliensis natural-latex in vaccines. Simply, the hevea-allergens are a catalyst for the sales of allergy medication. You should ask Big Pharma what's more important, science or profit.
Do you feel it's right to withhold valuable information from humanity so you can sell your book?
Months ago, I knew that Dochniak was "full of it", by just reading his description of his child's "anaphylactic" reaction to a vaccine packaged with a latex port...or to the latex plunger in the syringe:
"On Dochniak's website (describing his two-year-old's ER visit)....."Before leaving the hospital a doctor recommended that a nebulizer be used at home to relieve any recurrent asthmatic symptoms". Huh? Didn't Dochniak just describe an anaphylaxis episode? The ER doctor would have prescribed an EpiPen with instructions to fill the prescription immediately.
Too dumb even, to frame the anecdotal episode in a cogent manner...so that we might believe that his child has a latex allergy.
Posted by: lilady | May 10, 2011 5:56 PM"
I call Bullshit X 3 on:
Dochniak's child's latex allergy
His "research" about latex
His books
Time to give it up, Dochniak.
Gray Falcon writes (#309), "Do you feel it's right to withhold valuable information from humanity so you can sell your book?"
Response:
The co-author and I wrote the book "Vaccine delivery and Autism - The Latex Connection", placing it in the public domain for those who read the old fashioned way i.e., from a book.
Did you know that descriptions of allergic reactions to natural latex started to appear in medical literature in 1927?
Stern J. Ueberempfindlichkeit gegen Kautschuk als Ursache von Urticaria und Quinkeschem Oedem Klin Wochenschr 1927; 6; 1479.
MjD
The fact that people can become allergic to latex is well known. What you have not proven is that it leads to autism.
I'm allergic to nickel. Does this means that if I touch enough nickel coated safety pins, hair pins, snaps and all the other stuff that is covered with nickel that I'll develop some kind of neurological dysfunction?
MjD: If it's in the public domain, you won't lose anything by posting your data here. Do you feel it's right to withhold valuable information from humanity so you can sell your book?
There's a book?
Chris writes (#312), "The fact that people can become allergic to latex is well known. What you have not proven is that it leads to autism"
Fact is children can become allergic to latex from vaccines, many are asking the question does such exposure cause allergy-induced regressive autism in immune senstive infants. Chris, I don't believe vaccines have nickel warnings, but I'm sure Big Pharma makes a pretty nickel even if warnings are present on the vaccines.
Fact is, latex allergy is a catalyst for the sales of allergy medication. Big Pharma also profits from the sales of allergy-induced regressive autism medication.
Thanks for your response (#312).
MjD
Wait....what? You state a "FACT" without offering any evidence to back it up, oh right - that's what you do.
Oh my Thor. Did he really say that it is a fact that latex causes autism just because the FDA has warnings about latex allergies?
Is he really that idiotic?
Put down the shovel Mr. Dochniak. I'm almost embarrassed for you.
MjD, declaring something a fact is not evidence. Let me demonstrate: Michael J. Dochniak is a warlock. Was what I just said sufficient reason to burn you at the stake?
Fact is children can become allergic to latex from vaccines, many are asking the question does such exposure cause allergy-induced regressive autism in immune senstive infants
FYI: "one" is not "many".
The one child Dochniak came up with who "purportedly" had an anaphylactic reaction to a party balloon is his child.
BS artist described an asthmatic attack in his child, not anaphylaxis...with a nebulizer prescribed for his child not epinephrine. I posted twice about this and Dochniak still has not explained why he deliberately (and foolishly) changed the diagnosis of his child's "attack". So dumb he simply cannot come up with a cogent story about the purported anaphylactic reaction to a vaccine.
Stick a fork in this fool...he's overdone and worn out his welcome.
Gray Falcon asks:
I realise that this is a rhetorical question, since I'm sure Gray Falcon knows that Mr. Dochniak has no information that is of any value to humanity.
What Mr. Dochinak has is a hypothesis that is grounded on a superficial and largely incorrect understanding of immunobiology, molecular genetics, virology and neurodevelopment.
He persists in asserting that H. brasiliensis is somehow unique in having numerous allergenic proteins in its sap (AKA raw latex) and that nuts, bee venom, milk, cereals, etc. cannot possibly be as complex a mixture of proteins as latex is.
He also persists in asserting that latex is unique among the allergens in its ability to cause autism via the immune system without any overt manifestations of latex allergy. If this were true, it would be unique, but Mr. Dochniak gives no data supporting his assertion.
I have wasted a great deal of time searching the world's medical and biological literature for studies that might support Mr. Dochniak's assertions. I have done this because Mr. Dochniak is terribly coy about his sources. He has admitted that he has done no novel research and so all of his information must have come from published studies. Here is what I have found:
[1] Latex - more specifically, some of the H. brasiliensis proteins found in latex and natural rubber products - can cause severe delayed hypersensitivity reactions ("allergies") in some people; this should not come as a surprise to most people.
[2] Latex allergies are mediated by exactly the same immune processs that mediate delay-hypersensitivity reactions to most other protein and non-protein allergens.
[3] There are a few studies showing possible abnormalities in the immune systems of persons with autism; there are also studies showing a possible association between autism and auto-immune disorders. None of these studies have been able to show a causal link between autism and immune dysfunction (i.e. there is nothing that shows the immune dysfunctions aren't caused by autism).
In the category of "dogs that didn't bark" are the following:
[1] Medical use of latex has fallen dramatically in the past two decades, while the reported autism prevalence has increased.
[2] While the world-wide "consumption" of latex has increased, the amount used in the U.S., U.K. and E.U. has decreased over the past two decades, as synthetic polymers have been substituted for rubber.
[3] No studies (published in indexed journals) have reported an association between autism and latex allergies (or nut allergies, I note).
Apparently, all we have that supports Mr. Dochniak's "latex-caused-autism" hypothesis is his assertion. I and others have outlined above how Mr. Dochniak's hypotheses about how latex causes autism are based on faulty understanding of biology, but he persists in his error.
And yes, Krebiozen, there is a book - one that Mr. Dochniak has been flogging mercilessly in the comments section of this 'blog post. Based on the little snippets Mr. Dochniak has offered up for our review, it's not a very good book, unless your tastes run to rather technical unintentional comedy.
Prometheus
Mr. Dochniak makes the outrageous claim that:
Mr. Dochniak, since he is largely ignorant of all things medical and biological, may not realise that the #1 "treatment" for latex allergy is avoidance.
That's right - not some expensive allergy medication, just staying away from the allergen. This is because latex is not used so widely in the US, UK and EU that avoidance would be impractical or impossible.
Secondly, I'd like to know which "allergy-induced regressive autism medication" Mr. Dochnicak is referring to. While there are a number of medications that legitimate doctors use to treat some of the aspects of autism, I wasn't aware that there was a medication directed specifically at "allergy-induced regressive autism".
All in all, the "Big Pharma" ploy isn't working here. Next, I expect to see Mr. Dochniak accuse me (or our host) of being in the pay of "Big Pharma" (the "Big Pharma shill" defense). Or is he planning to accuse "Big Pharma" for the pathetic sales of his book?
I'm with Science Mom, put down the shovel, Mr. Dochniak - the hole is deep enough already.
Prometheus
Prometheus,
Yes I know, I should have added a sarcasm tag.
Prometheus writes (#323), "Mr. Dochniak, since he is largely ignorant of all things medical and biological, may not realise that the #1 "treatment" for latex allergy is avoidance."
The #1 "treatment" for latex allergy is avoidance. Most importantly, the #1 way of not getting a latex allergy is also latex avoidance.
Therefore, refuse vaccines that have latex warnings.
MjD
Given that latex exposure is far more ubiquitous in non-vaccine items, where is your call for avoidance of any latex product? Oh and Mr. Dochniak, tenacity =/= correct.
From Mr. Dochniak's book:
A time of anticipated celebration, a time of joy as brightly colored party balloons, wrapped gifts, paper plates, and inscribed napkins decorated picnic tables for family and friends gathered to share vanilla-frosted cake at Dain's 2nd birthday. Dain playfully mouthed an inflated natural-latex balloon while others cheerfully watched and sang happy birthday. Within the balloon was an invasive danger that would soon severely threaten and change his life forever. Shortly after playing with the balloon, Dain's health steadily regressed as his adaptive immune system recognized and attacked the natural-latex proteins that had transferred, through inhalation and dermal absorption, from the balloon and into his body. As the allergic response progressed and intensified his health worsened, frightened parents comforted their child as each labored breath failed to change the dark-purple color in his lips from oxygen starved blood. Rushed to the hospital emergency room, a nurse quickly injected adrenaline into his tiny shoulder. A mask supplied a steady stream of oxygen and intravenous tubes dripped essential fluids into his arm, rapidly turning his lips a safe pink color again allowing this atopic child to overcome a severe allergic reaction and live another day. Before leaving the hospital, a Doctor discussed his allergy situation. It was recommended that a nebulizer be used at home to relieve any recurrent asthmatic symptoms. The treatments helped his breathing but failed to address its underlying cause and progression - his adaptive immune system was hyper-active and out of control. Within a year, Dain would experience many more allergic manifestations and be diagnosed with Regressive Autism; thereafter helplessly locked forever in a world of behavioral atypicality.
In the book titled, 'Vaccine Delivery and Autism - The Latex Connection' Michael believes that vaccines contributed to his son's allergy-induced regressive autism. According to Autism Speaks, a non-profit public awareness organization, it's estimated that one in every 110 children in the United States is diagnosed with autism and tens of millions are affected worldwide, making it more prevalent than childhood cancer, juvenile diabetes, and pediatric AIDS combined. What actually causes autism is a complex and puzzling question, but atypical immunity is known to play a dominant role. Vaccine Delivery and Autism (The Latex Connection) focuses on the allergenic proteins found in Hevea brasiliensis, a dry natural rubber (HDNR) found in some vaccine packaging and delivery systems. Along with scientific reasoning, empirical studies are used to illustrate that exposure to the allergenic proteins from HDNR can affect the incidence of atopy and allergy-induced regressive autism. However, it's expressed that the story is a hopeful one because the allergy-induced regressive autism rate does not have to be the inevitable result of immunization. HDNR exclusionary practice will dramatically reduce cases of allergy-induced regressive autism in future generations. The book is an essential read for parenthats, teachers, scientists, and medical professionals. Although they are likely to feel frustrated, be moved to anger, or experience a sense of betrayal, acute awareness of this important issue can only lead to a resolution. The message is loud and clear: the use of HDNR in vaccine packaging and delivery violates the first rule of medicine--do no harm.
It would seem that the number one way to avoid an asthmatic attack would be for Mr. Dochniak to keep his child away from latex balloons and the powder that the balloons are packed with that his child inhaled...and that triggered an asthmatic attack.
Therefore, refuse balloons altogether.
It would also seem that Dochniak should stop digging or get a longer ladder.
Mr. Dochniak:
You've skipped the first 999,999 out of 1,000,000 parts of your argument. In order to demonstrate that the latex in vaccine vial diaphragms can cause "allergy-induced regressive autism", you first have to demonstrate that there is any such thing as "regressive autism". Since IMO the chances are at least 999 out of 1000 that "regressive autism" is simply "Parent assumes child is developing normally until suddenly noticing that he's notâZOMG! Regression!"
Secondly if there is any such thing as "regressive autism" you have to demonstrate that it can be "allergy-induced". My bet is that all you will come up with is "allergy-correlated", if that. Then you have to explain why none of the other million-and-one things some kids are allergic to cause "regressive autism".
Finally, after you've built a case for these "Impossible things you believe before breakfast". you can start on explaining how the homeopathic quantities of latex that would enter the child's body from this declining incidence of latex-containing vials are triggering the (supposedly) increasing incidence of autism. Please don't skip the hard partâI know damn well it's not in your book, so I don't need to buy it.
Please just assume a few of those periods up in there are commas. New keyboard.
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge writes (#328), "I know damn well it's not in your book, so I don't need to buy it".
There is no teaching or suggestion of homeopathic quantities of latex in the book "Vaccine Deliver and Autism - The Latex Connection". In the contrary, medical science has shown that some individual are sentitive to the hevea-allergens at ppb (ppb is part per billion Prometheus).
Furthermore, studies show that latex sensitivity is increasing not decreasing.
Science Mom is correct when she says latex products are far more ubiquitous in non-vaccines. But, injecting the hevea-allergens directly into an infant is a very intrusive route of exposure that should not be accepted and is becoming less tolerated.
MjD
Well, at least we know why he skipped the agony of publishing in a peer reviewed journal, just "Medical Hypothesis."
@Michael J. Dochniak:
If you've put your book into the public domain, then put it up on the Internet for free download rather than asking us to buy it.
So, why hasn't anyone ever become autistic from getting a cut or scrape?
Mr Dochniak:
I will take your #329 as an admission that your book does not demonstrate the existence of any such a phenomenon as "regressive autism" or, in the incredibly unlikely event that it exists, that allergies can cause it. I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you!
"Medical Hypotheses," an excellent example of a Kroy Wen.
What's a Kroy Wen, you ask?
Well, Frank Sinatra sang of New York, New York: "If I can make it there, I'll make it anywhere."
A Kroy Wen is the opposite: you only bother trying to make it there when you can't make it anywhere else.
Gray Falcon writes (#332), "So, why hasn't anyone ever become autistic from getting a cut or scrape?"
Response:
It is well known that bandages (e.g., Bandaids), used to cover cuts and scrapes, have been manufactured with natural-latex. This is another route of exposure to the hevea-allergens. Fortunately, manufacturers are begining to provide latex-free bandages in that hospitals ban hevea brasiliensis natural-latex products in their facilities.
Avoid using bandages on children that have a latex warning on the packaging.
Thanks for your input Gray Falcon!
MjD
I think I'm missing the part where that's a response to the question.
So, why hasn't anyone ever become autistic from getting a cut or scrape?
I am still confused why nickel allergies don't cause allergies. Is it just the FDA warning? I mean nickel is everywhere.
MjD has got to be some kind of robot - I mean the canned answers it spews out to every single question (regardless of its complexity or issue) couldn't come from a human.....
Well, in light of his inability to answer simple questions that he should know but can't, and is intense need to be right, is it surprising that he would take this tact?
Oops, I meant to ask: "I am still confused why nickel allergies don't cause autism." Why just latex?
How come wool and cats don't cause autism? Kids get allergic to those. Is it because they are not used in vaccine packaging?
Chris,
Not to give Mr. Dochniak more fuel for his delusion, but anything that gets under the skin could - in his alternate Universe - cause autism.
The potentally allergenic proteins in any natural product (e.g. wood splinters, playground soil, superficial bacterial infection, etc.) are fully equal in number and immunogenicity to those found in latex, yet there is nobody (yet) claiming that children become autistic after any of those exposures.
I'm beginning to wonder if Lawrence might not be right - Mr. Dochniak's responses have been rather rigid and limited, like those of a computer program. Perhaps he's nothing but a 'bot programmed to stir up interest in Mr. Dochniak's new book.
It's not working very well.
Prometheus
Prometheus:
A quick Google on his last name brings up his Amazon page, though in reality this page has probably had much more activity. It must be some kind of 'bot to deal with the Google searches.
I would not be surprised, considering the level (or lack of) veracity from the anti-vaccine crowd.
Chris writes (#342), "I am still confused why nickel allergies don't cause autism."
MjD's Response:
Compared to the hevea-allergens, inorganic elements such as nickel do not have a molecular complexity (i.e., epitope variability) to effectively induce cross-reactivity through adaptive immunity. See message #294 for more details on why the hevea-allergens are dangerous.
A nickel for your thoughs Gray Falcon?
MjD
So it is a 'bot!
He has some program to put up nonsense on some kind of time cycle. He completely missed the bit about wool and cats.
MjD, you've established you aren't interested in honest discussion. What more do I need to say?
No, he didn't miss that; he can't torture it into his little paradigm so he ignores it, just as he hasn't bothered to address any of Prometheus' questions and mine at #303.
It's all rather typical.
Prometheus writes (#343), "The potentally allergenic proteins in any natural product (e.g. wood splinters, playground soil, superficial bacterial infection, etc.) are fully equal in number and immunogenicity to those found in latex..."
MjD's Response:
Prometheus, there is a reason why natural latex is banned in hospitals and the FDA requires a warning label when latex is present in vaccines.
The H. brasiliensis rubber tree forms natural-latex having antigenic proteins that are unique based on secondary, tertiary, and quantenary stucture; making them potentially DANGEROUS ALLERGENS. Furthermore, primary-structure similarities in latex-proteins and non-latex proteins (e.g., beneficial foodstuff proteins) can induce IgE-antibody epitope recognition, and cross-reactivity, based on such structure homology; again making the latex-proteins potentially DANGEROUS ALLERGENS.
MjD
Science Mom writes (#348), "No, he didn't miss that; he can't torture it into his little paradigm so he ignores it, just as he hasn't bothered to address any of Prometheus' questions and mine at #303.
Dear Science Mom,
You asked for and then refused a free copy of the book "Vaccine Delivery and Autism - The Latex Connection".
Therefore my feeling are hurt, but time heals. I'll answer your #303 questions when I've recovered...
Please no one else ask for a free copy of the book and then refuse it. I'm human, not a robot as some have suggested.
MjD
It is? I have had a latex allergy for years and I have to request latex-free gloves at my hospital every time I need to do a procedure that requires gloving.
Incidentally, I do not have ASD, even though I've had all the vaccines available at the time.
Yeah, I know, it's an anecdote, but that's what counts in Woo-World.
A liar too; and here I thought you were just another delusional vaccinesdidit bandwagon-clinger. I asked for a pdf of your book, which you have.
You refused and I have the email exchange to demonstrate your retraction of your "offer", which will show up on my blog this week.
TBruce writes (#351), "I have had a latex allergy for years and I have to request latex-free gloves at my hospital every time I need to do a procedure that requires gloving".
MjD's response:
The first rule of medicine is do no harm. How do feel about exposing your patients to the hevea-allergens prior to getting latex allergy from "gloving"?
Medical science has known for a century that exposure to the proteins in hevea brasiliensis natural-latex can causes adverse immune responses in some patients. Yet some doctors and hospitals still allow its use.
MjD
How do I feel about exposing my patients to hevea-allergens? Oh terrible, terrible! They kept dropping dead from anaphylaxis and I didn't know why!
Actually, they didn't complain. I am a pathologist, and they were either dead (autopsies) or in pieces (surgical specimens). I am still wracked with guilt, of course. Allergic reaction in a segment of colon is a terrible thing.
Anyway, nice attempt to divert my attention from your error (or lie) about latex being banned from hospitals. It didn't work.
MjD:
You say that the incidence of autism is increasing. Others argue that it's about constant, and the difference has to do with greater awareness and diagnostic substitution. So, the autism rate is either steady or increasing.
Logic suggests that the cause(s) must also, therefore, either be steady or increasing.
The amount of latex in the environment is decreasing.
People keep asking you to explain this contradiction, and you keep coming back with warnings about how dangerous latex is, ignoring that you've been asked to justify the claim that latex causes, or even correlates with, autism. Telling me, again, to keep latex away from any child in my care is not evidence that I should to do this.
I take allergies seriously, because there are people in my life for whom they are real issues. But I take them seriously, not phobicly: they are real things, to be dealt with realistically. With the child who is allergic to eggs, that means not offering her anything to eat unless I'm sure of the ingredients. It doesn't mean keeping her away from egg-shaped plastic toys, or drawings of birds sitting on their nests. Nor does it mean assuming that because she can't have eggs, we can't give her wheat or dairy or peanuts.
TBruce writes (#354), "How do I feel about exposing my patients to hevea-allergens? Oh terrible, terrible! They kept dropping dead from anaphylaxis and I didn't know why!"
"Actually, they didn't complain. I am a pathologist, and they were either dead (autopsies) or in pieces (surgical specimens)".
MjD's response:
Thanks for your contribution to medical science and sorry to hear you acquired a latex allergy.
TBruce, what do you think about natural-latex gloves still being used in surgery, exposing live patients to the hevea-allergens?
Furthermore, do you think natural-latex should be used in vaccines, e.g., syringe tips, knowing that the hevea-allergens can contaminate the vaccine solution?
MjD
Vicki writes (#355), "Telling me, again, to keep latex away from any child in my care is not evidence that I should to do this".
MjD's Response:
Exposing any children in your care to H. brasiliensis natural-latex is your responsibility.
MjD, do you really think people will be convinced by your evasive answers?
MJD:
I have never seen or heard of a significant patient reaction to latex gloves. It is, however, a fairly common allergy among health care workers. This is most likely related to repeated and prolonged exposure, something that is not an issue with almost all patients.
I think that your argument about latex contamination of vaccines is about as credible as other blanket criticisms of vaccines.
TBruce writes (#359), "I think that your argument about latex contamination of vaccines is about as credible as other blanket criticisms of vaccines".
MjD's response:
The FDA mandates the use of latex warnings on vaccines when natural latex is present. My arguement about latex contamination of vaccines is therefore a specific criticism.
TBruce writes (#359), "This is most likely related to repeated and prolonged exposure, something that is not an issue with almost all patients".
Are you refering to your patients (#356) when you make this statement?
MjD
I don't know much about Helvea Brasiliensis and its impact on the immune system, but the scientific findings buttressing an immune system -- autism link are certainly becoming more grounded as research continues.
I was doing my monthly check-up on pubmed wrt to autism research (specifically the immune autism link) and came across this recent publication:
"A proteomic investigation of B lymphocytes in an autistic family: a pilot study of exposure to natural rubber latex (NRL) may lead to autism."
PMID: 20957522
My university does not provide access to the journal that published this paper, so I have no way of assessing it.
Michael, have you read this particular research paper? Anyone else?
I think the findings and research in the autism-immune realm have actually become quite a bit more robust in the past year. Certainly it is not clear how everything fits together (as Prometheus pointed out), but there are still some intriguing findings and new knowledge about neuroimmunology that may shed some light on the immune-autism connection.
Also, just because there is becoming a credible link between aberrant immune responses and autism, it does not automatically indict vaccines in the etiology of autism. But, it may offer different angles to study the safety of vaccines and their potential implication in altering neurodevelopment.
Chris: I am still confused why nickel allergies don't cause allergies. Is it just the FDA warning? I mean nickel is everywhere.
Nickel allergy isn't the same kind of allergy, exactly. My mom has it pretty bad -- anything under 18 carat gold or sterling silver will trigger a reaction. (And actually, she's stopped wearing even 18 carat now.) Her glasses have titanium frames. When she had surgery for a bad break last winter, the surgical staples drove her absolutely mad until they could come out -- she had told them about her allergy, but apparently they didn't think about the staples. A lot of medical professionals think surgical steel is hypoallergenic, and, well, it kind of is. It's better than, say, the steel used to build a bridge. But it's still got plenty of nickel in it.
But the question is still a good one, and still unanswered by Mr Donchiak. Why just latex? He says it's special somehow, but I haven't seen any convincing argument that it really is. Latex allergy isn't like nickel allergy -- but it IS like egg allergy, and eggs are used as a growth medium for a number of vaccines. What's more, I believe there are documented cases of anaphylaxis due to egg allergy after vaccination with an egg-containing vaccine. Why would this not cause autism?
Medical science has known for a century that exposure to the proteins in hevea brasiliensis natural-latex can causes adverse immune responses in some patients. Yet some doctors and hospitals still allow its use.
And pet therapy is allowed in hospitals, despite severe dog and cat allergies. And I was served buns when I was in the hospital, even though celiac disease has been known for even longer. (Heck, they even served PB&J.) And steel fittings are still used for implants, causing a great deal of pain for the nickel-sensitive. It is not possible to protect against all possible allergens, and the effort would in fact be absurd.
Exposing any children in your care to H. brasiliensis natural-latex is your responsibility.
And that also is not an answer to Vicki's request for a reason why that should be a particular concern, absent information about a particular child's allergy.
Michael, have you read this particular research paper? Anyone else?
Oh yes, Mr. Dochniak has read it and seems to think it supports his completely unsubstantiated hand-waving, hence his fapping about this report upstream in the comments. It isn't a particularly well-conducted examination as it looks at a single family that works in a latex plant. Everyone is allergic to latex, news at 11:00!
Yes there are intriguing findings with regards to immune dysregulation and autism, but which came first? Why don't we let the real scientists do their jobs and bin the likes of Mr. Dochniak's "research" where it belongs.
Justin writes (#361), "Also, just because there is becoming a credible link between aberrant immune responses and autism, it does not automatically indict vaccines in the etiology of autism. But, it may offer different angles to study the safety of vaccines and their potential implication in altering neurodevelopment".
MjD's response:
Justin, here's a bit of information from the book "Vaccine Delivery and Autism - The Latex Connection" Chapter 12, page 80.
Has vaccine-insult increased the incidence of mental retardation in allergy-induced regressive autism?
As discussed in previous Chapters, medical research has shown that vaccinations can increase allergy sensitivity. In atopic children, vaccinations could be the tipping point that further induces the prevalence of allergic reactions; adversely affecting cognitive development. It is the opinion of the authors (i.e., Michael J. Dochniak and Denise H. Dunn) that atypical adaptive immunity, and Hevea-allergen tainted vaccines, continues to affect the incidence of mental retardation in allergy-induced regressive autism.
The Hevea-allergens can activate the immune system and adversely change the autistic mind.
MjD
TBruce writes (#354), "Anyway, nice attempt to divert my attention from your error (or lie) about latex being banned from hospitals. It didn't work"
MjD's response:
As an example, "Latex Banned from Johns Hopkins Hospital".
http://www.achooallergy.com/blog/johns-hopkins-bans-latex/
MjD
TBruce,
We now know that latex is banned from Johns Hopkins Hospital. The question that begs to be asked is as follows:
Why is natural-latex still in some of their vaccines?
Medical science and the general public understands that there is health risk associated with vaccinations. An open and honest discussion about the safety of some vaccines must continue.
MjD
Mr. Dochniak:
But not compared to the actual diseases. Plus there is no real evidence that vaccines have any association with autism.
Yes, the discussion must be open and honest. Except those are two things you have failed to do this entire time. You have not presented any real evidence that latex allergies are related autism, but have insisted we buy your book.
Chris writes (#367), "Yes, the discussion must be open and honest".
MjD's response:
Medical science understands that vaccines can cause a disease characterized by a tendency to be "hyper-allergic" (i.e., atopy). Also, environmental factors such as exposure to the proteins in natural-latex is suspected to play a major role in atopy.
Therefore, the combination of vaccinations and natural-latex exposure places children at great risk for atopic disease.
One solution to this problem is to take natural-latex out of vaccine delivery systems.
Thanks for your input Chris.
MjD
Prove it. And with real studies showing that allergies have any connection to autism. This is something you have consistently failed to do.
Chris writes (#368), "Prove it. And with real studies showing that allergies have any connection to autism".
MjD's response:
Thank you. I will continue to prove that the allergens in natural-latex can affect allergy-induced regressive autism.
MjD
Did you present any evidence? Not speculation, not accusation, evidence? Do you know what evidence is?
Here is a hint, Mr. Dochniak: not your book.
Gray Falcon writes (#371), "Do you know what evidence is?"
MjD's response:
Research shows that the central nervous system is known to be susceptible to allergens especially during prenatal/neonatal/infant development. The central nervous system is particularly vulnerable at this stage in that there is a proliferation of nerve cell reproduction, growth, and migration.
Reference: Herz U, et al. 2001, Allergic Sensitization and Allergen Exposure During Pregnancy Favor the Development of Atopy in the Neonate. Int Arch Allergy Immunol. Vol. 124 (1-3), pages 193-196.
Thus, pregnant women should avoid being exposed to the allergens in H. brasiliensis natural rubber, especially from vaccines.
MjD
So what do those allergies have to do with autism? That is the question you have failed to answer.
Textbook example of speculation: You started from a legitimate piece of evidence, but the rest didn't follow. You may have well have said, "Green curry has coconut milk. Thus, pregnant women should avoid being exposed to the allergens in H. brasiliensis natural rubber, especially from vaccines."
Thus, pregnant if they are thinking about having a litter, women BALB/c mice should avoid being exposed to the allergens in H. brasiliensis natural rubber aerosolized ovalbumin, especially from vaccines if they expect their offspring to develop a taste for nonmurine milk.
Chris writes (#374), "Textbook example of speculation".
MjD's response:
In 1964 the World Medical Association developed a code of research ethics that came to be known as the Declaration of Helsinki. It was a reinterpretation of the Nuremberg Code, with an eye to medical research with therapeutic intent. Thus, human experimental research directed at prenatal/neonatal/infant induced immunity to the allergens in H. brasiliensis natural-latex would be unethical and prohibited based on non-theraputic intent.
MjD
Good excuse, but you still haven't shown why any other form of latex hasn't caused autism, or why only latex is what causes autism and not the 100,000 other possible allergens out there.
Or indeed that allergic reactions DO cause autism, not merely they MIGHT be a cause.
M.O'Brien writes (#379), "Or indeed that allergic reactions DO cause autism, not merely they MIGHT be a cause"
MjD's response:
Medical science is teaching us that the immune system is, and will continue to be, the architect that helps design our intellectual abilities. With a deeper knowledge of adaptive immunity, medical science has the ability to affect protein insult (i.e., from natural-latex) and affect the evolution of neuro-cognitive development in mankind.
MjD
Mr. Dochniak:
I did not write that. Are you actually reading what we are saying?
I asked you what allergies have to do with autism. Or as Mephistopheles O'Brien noted: show that allergic reactions cause autism.
I should repeat, one cannot look for how vaccines cause autism until after a connection between vaccines and autism is found. That has not occurred. There is not casual relationship between vaccines and autism.
Meaning-to-Word ratio of post #380: Near, quite possibly at, zero. As usual for MjD.
Yo, Dochniak, if you haven't cited any peer-reviewed publications here to support your assertions, then I'm guessing you're not citing any such work in your own book. If your book cited peer-reviewed work, you could at least toss out some bits from the bibliography. Your failure to cite ANY peer-reviewed work here, strongly implies your book isn't based on such work, and is therefore...unreliable.
Does your book even HAVE a bibliography?
It has been written: I should repeat, one cannot look for how vaccines cause autism until after a connection between vaccines and autism is found.
MjD's response:
The connection is in adaptive immunity.
As previously discussed, vaccines shift immunity towards Th2. Adaptive immunity associated with atypical expression of biomarkers including cytokines, nuclear factor kappa B, and neuron growth factor induce hyper-sensitivity to environmental antigens (i.e., atopy).
Atopy can induce the over expression of endogenous proteins including neurotrophins adversely affecting neural growth and neural prunning.
Atypical neural growth and neural prunning can affect cognition and behaviors resulting in an autism spectrum disorder.
Of course, the details and references are described in the book "Vaccine Delivery and Autism - The Latex Connection".
MjD
Mr. Dochniak said:
You are either the most clueless person in the world or a 'bot.
For the umpteenth time, stop pushing your book! In no way you have shown that allergies lead to autism, not that autism has any connection to vaccines.
Stupid typo. To clarify: you have not shown that autism has any connection to vaccines.
Chris writes (#385), "For the umpteenth time, stop pushing your book! In no way you have shown that allergies lead to autism, not that autism has any connection to vaccines".
MjD's response:
It is understood that viruses, bacteria, and allergens have played a critical role in mankinds development. Forced vaccinations (i.e., herd immunity) and increased allergen exposure (i.e., natural latex) continues to stress immunity affecting the up-regulation/down-regulation of endogenous proteins critical to neurological development.
If one accepts that the comorbidity of infectious agents (e.g., viruses, bacteria) and non-infectious proteins (e.g., allergens) can affect the expresion of endogenous proteins, one can then accept that increased insult can adversely affect immune sensitive children (i.e.,allergy-induced regressive autism).
Do you believe that viruses, bacteria, and allergens affect our biochemistry?
MjD
By that logic, one can also accept that vaccines can turn people into cats.
On second thought, why did I replay to Mr. Dochniak? It's clear MjD isn't talking to us, he's talking to the people he thinks we are, namely, the closed-minded naysayers who dismiss his ideas out of hand. He's not talking to the people who are doing what every other scientist does, asking for the evidence so we can weigh it.
Is this argument still going on?!?
MjD: "Assertion, distortion of fact, assertion, association confused with causation, assertion, dismissal of contradicting data without cause, assertion, Buy My Book."
There - now you know how all of MjD's responses will read. He's just trying to drum up some interest in his book and isn't the slightest bit interested in how badly he has misunderstood biology. He is "often in error but never in doubt", as the old song goes.
Put a fork in him - he's overdone.
Prometheus
Prometheus writes (#390), "... isn't the slightest bit interested in how badly he has misunderstood biology".
A quote for Prometheus:
A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it. - Thomas Samuel Kuhn
Hev-b 5 (acidic latex protein), from H. brasiliensis natural-latex, has a high proline content of about 14 percent to provide a tertiary structure having randoteric factors, inducing antibody recognition. Does anyone really want this allergen in their child's vaccine?
In atopic children, a combination of vaccine insult and natural-latex insult can adversely affect immunity, neurological development, and cause allergy-induced regressive autism.
MjD
Mr. Dochniak, in no way does that contortion of the English language prove that vaccines cause autism, nor that allergies cause autism.
You really are clueless. You are also ignoring all of the large epidemiological data that shows no association between vaccines and autism done in several countries. Plus the severe lack of child mortality that has increased the average lifespan.
You are not only clueless, but delusional.
Mr. Dochniak, as he continues to torture logic:
Prove it. Especially the existence of "allergy-induced regressive autism." Show that "allergy-induced regressive autism" exists by posting the journal, title, date and authors of the multiple papers that support your statements. And remember the papers should not be from Medical Hypotheses and not written by you.
@Dochniak, who said, "Of course, the details and references are described in the book "Vaccine Delivery and Autism - The Latex Connection"."
Out of amusement, I read your book (I found a copy remaindered in a used book store for 25 cents.) It does not contain either the details or the references to establish a connection between vaccines and autism.
It's bad enough that you push your (apparently) worthless and obviously self-published book.
But to push something that has no viable content? Shame, sir.
I'm sure Mr. Dochniak feels as though he is dazzling someone with his brains but I think we all know what is really being presented, something about baffling and bullshit I believe. Why stop at latex when the gelatine in some vaccines also have high proline content? Your obsession with just latex is rather peculiar and leads me to speculate some rather amusing scenarios as to why that may be.
Well, it is obvious, Science Mom, it all goes back to the covers his mother had him wear over his shoes on rainy days.
Science Mom,
Maybe I should have looked for him when I was at the Montreal Fetish Weekend earlier this month. It is a bit of a mecca for people obsessed with latex.
Don't you all get it? It has a tertiary structure-- that's the worst kind. And with randoteric factors! It induces antibody recognition, for god's sake!
I'm gonna hide under my bed tonight.
MjD:
This is one of the quotations most commonly cited in defense of ideas that lack supporting data (and that are contradicted by existing data). Next we will hear Vaclev Havel's quote about fleeing those who have found the truth - or, perhaps, something about how "they laughed at Galileo, too" (although "they" didn't laugh at all - they put him under house arrest).
MjD:
"Randoteric" appears to be an undefined term - at least, none of the protein biochemists I asked knew what it meant. Maybe it is a regional usage.
Hev-B5 indeed is 15% proline. Collagen (chicken) is 13% proline. Mast cell degranulating peptide (from bee venom - a very allergenic protein) is 4% proline.
Your point...?
Prometheus
As I learned from Herr Doktor Bimler on this blog some time ago, that quote is not from Kuhn but is actually Max Planck. Kuhn repeated the quote in 'The Structure of Scientific Revolutions', and disagreed with it.
"Randoteric" is not a word. I suspect it's a case of Dochniak attempting to baffle with bafflegab. His book is even worse.
Prometheus writes (#390), "Put a fork in him - he's overdone".
Another quote for Professor Moriarty (aka Prometheus):
Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge? - T.S. Eliot
Why is H. brasiliensis still in some vaccines? It has been shown that natural-latex in the medical-glove industry has done great harm to practitioners and patients.
MjD
MjD - you keep making these accusations / suppositions with no basis of fact or evidence.....I don't think what you say means what you think it means....
Actually, Dochniak, it has NOT been shown that natural latex in the medical glove industry has done "great harm" to practitioners and patients. Citations, please? Or just admit you lied.
@MjD:
1) You've provided the outlines of a mechanism by which allergies might cause autism, but no evidence that they do cause autism. (Please don't say "buy my book")
2) You've provided no reason as to why latex allergies in particular are a cause of autism. (Well, you have provided supposed reasons, but other have pointed out that the properties of latex you claimed are special actually aren't so special)
Oh I'm afraid you don't know me well Chris as my imagination is far more perverse. As in envisioning a fetish which involves liquid latex, extraction from and a topical allergic reaction which involves painful, unsightly and rather embarrassing "owies".
Given his continued extraordinary claims with zero evidence, and now with MORE notable quotes and fabricated scientific nomenclature, I think my speculation is probably more statistically likely.
You know, I'm old enough to remember when we were being told that synthetic rubber was the most horrible thing ever. (I think the chemical name had some syllables in common with some kind of nerve gas, maybe? I have trouble keeping insane arguments straight in my head.) We needed to switch back to "natural" rubber for everything or we were all gonna die! You can't win for losing with these numbnuts, can you?
Dear Science Mom:
:-o
It has been incorrectly suggested that exposure to H. brasiliensis natural-latex has decreased, therefore, this can not explain the increase in allergy-induced regressive autism.
Infant exposure to the hevea allergens from natural-latex has increased based on increased vaccinations.
Here's a 20011 list, from the CDC, of vaccines that contain natural latex.
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/latex-…
Thus, infant exposure to natural-latex has increased and so has allergy-induced regressive autism. Refuse vaccines that have a latex warning.
MjD
There's another possibility. You could be wrong about "allergy-induced regressive autism."
I see that MjD is making no attempt to address the issues raised (e.g. declining exposure to latex, why latex proteins are unique in their ability to cause autism and, most recently, proline content and immunogenicity) and has resorted to repeating (and expanding) his unsupported assertions and - stranger yet - using Bartlett's Quotations as a reference source to bolster his positions.
Normally, I would be done with a book-spamming troll by this point, but Mr. Dochniak intrigues me. He is a wonderful example of how knowing a little bit about a subject can be worse than knowing nothing at all.
Having nearly mastered the jargon of science, he thinks he has a mastery of science itself. Fascinating! It's like when I was in high school chemistry class and thought that understanding (in a very limited way, it turned out) the nomenclature rules for organic compounds gave me a mastery of organic chemistry.
I almost admire the arrogance of someone who - even after being repeatedly shown he's wrong - has the chutzpah to tell people with training, experience, advanced degrees and research in the field that he knows more than they. Simply amazing! It's like watching a car crash - I know I shouldn't watch, but I'm powerless to look away.
In case anyone is confused, Mr. Dochniak asserts (without support) that latex exposure to young children has increased based solely on the increased number of vaccines they receive. This requires more than just his assertion to make it true.
Mr. Dochniak also asserts (without support) that latex proteins are somehow unique in their ability to cause an abnormal adaptive immune response, which is patently false. There are a large number of protein and non-protein compounds that can cause abnormal adaptive immune response, including such mundane products as nuts, legumes (peanut), fungal products (e.g. penicillin), etc.
Finally, in an amazing leap of "logic", Mr. Dochniak takes limited findings of immune abnormalities in some autistic children and spins it into a tale of how latex - which is well-known to cause immune reactions - in vaccines (but, apparently, not party balloons, toys and crib mattress covers) causes autism. This "connection" doesn't just need citations, it needs a miracle.
These points have all been made - repeatedly - to Mr. Dochniak and he has responded by repeating his unsuppported assertions, making new unsupported assertions, touting his book and, finally, citing famous quotations.
I will close by citing a famous quotation that Mr. Dochniak's can interpret as he likes, since citing quotes does not support a scientific argument.
Prometheus
Prometheus writes (#411), "Finally, in an amazing leap of "logic", Mr. Dochniak takes limited findings of immune abnormalities in some autistic children and spins it into a tale of how latex - which is well-known to cause immune reactions - in vaccines (but, apparently, not party balloons, toys and crib mattress covers) causes autism".
MjD's response:
Repeated exposure to the Hevea-allergens, from sources other than vaccines, is discussed in both books. Thank you for at least admitting that natural-latex can cause immune reactions!
Prometheus, today I visited a hospital in Iowa City, IA that promotes itself as "One of America's Best Children's Hospitals". I asked the 'Patient Relations Specialist' what was their natural-latex policy and she was unaware of their policy but said she would search for an answer.
MjD
MjD, are you here to discuss science or to sell your book?
Okay, so somebody doesn't share your obsession. Not exactly news, or evidence.
It still is kind of fun to watch the troll flail around - it has been a while since I've seen anyone with such a one-track mind (though one of our resident insane trolls also qualifies) to ignore any and all facts or evidence that would refute his conclusions.
Funny guy.
Mr. Dochniak:
Last I looked the anthrax vaccine is not required for children. In fact, each and every vaccine on the pediatric schedule has a version without latex. I pulled them out of the list for you to see:
DTaP
Daptacel,NO
Infanrix, Syringe NO â Vial
Hib
ActHIB, NO â Lyophilized vaccine vial
Hepatitis A
Havrix, NO â Vial
Hepatitis B
Engerix-B, NO â Vial
HPV
Gardasil, NO
Cerverix, NO â Vial
Influenza
Fluzone Intradermal, NO
FluLava, NO
Afluria, NO
FluMist, NO
MMR (M-M-R II), NO
MMRV (ProQuad), NO
Now, where is that evidence that "allergy-induced regressive autism" actually exists? Please post the journal, title, and dates of the multiple papers that show it is not something made up by you.
Remember, you are not to be an author of any of those papers, and not published in Medical Hypothesis. And please stop pushing your tiny little 116 page book (that includes the index).
MJD
And then she called security.
MjD:
That latex can cause immune reactions was never in question, nor does it necessarily support Mr. Dochniak's assertions. I hope that he's not scoring this as a "win" for his hypothesis. Of the three things I listed - party balloons, toys and crib mattress covers - all three have had latex largely replaced with synthetic polymers in the past twenty years. I bet he missed that point.
To begin with, the "Patient Relations Specialist" is a sort of combination PR person and patient-staff interaction ombudsman for the hospital - they aren't the best source (or even a good source) for medical policy.
Second, I called up three local hospitals and the University of Iowa hospital this afternoon during lunch (I eat lunch late) and spoke to someone in their medical risk management offices. Each hospital representative stated that their "natural-latex policy" is roughly as follows:
[1] Latex allergies are noted on the cover of the chart (for the one hospital still using paper charts) and are displayed at the top of every screen on the electronic record - along with all other allergies.
[2] Patients with latex, nut and other life-threatening allergies have warnings posted on the door of their room and at the head of their bed alerting staff and visitors of the allergy and giving a lst of prohibited items (e.g. latex balloons).
[3] All four hospitals replaced latex examination gloves with nitrile, neoprene or chloroprene gloves over a decade ago.
[4] All four hospitals have had latex-free sterile surgical gloves available in all operating and treatment rooms for over a decade and have a policy that no latex-containing gloves may be used in the same room with patients who have latex allergies.
All that this tells me is that hospitals and medical personnel are very aware of latex allergy and that the medical (and non-medical) use of latex has dropped dramatically in the past twenty years.
And, just to be repetitive, the prevalence of autism has been steadily rising for the past twenty years.
Mr. Dochniak is beginning to sound more than a bit like another infamous troll, "Th1Th2", with his endless repetition of "facts" that are either in question or are patently false.
Prometheus
Respectful Insolence bloggers, can you get more educational/insightful banter than this?
Your blogging is shamefully entertaining at best !!! In my opinion, the present blogging exists to support the minds of already over-active immune, latex-damaged, and over- stimulated egos (i.e., Pseudo Greek Gods )
Dunn /Dochniak are PRESENTING a viable hypothesis; cutting edge, futuristic, and in its infancy.
Ego and others...Validate don't Negate!
Specifically, validate the null hypothesis; don't negate its creation.
I look forward to more educational/insightful responses and less degrading driven humor.
We are all in this together! And personally, I am impressed with the evidence shown.
Helen of Troy
Helen of Troy:
Except one crucial piece is missing: actual evidence.
I have a hypothesis that the sun revolves around the Earth. How is that any different than "allergy-induced regressive autism"?
helen of troy,
If Michael Dochniak would present some evidence then sure, I guess the banter could be more educational. But the ball is in his court and frankly it has been since he started posting here. He has not presented anything to support his hypothesis and has endlessly been asked for references to support his ideas, but ignored it. I am not sure how you can rest the blame at the feet of the regular commenters here.
Perhaps you can clarify this. What evidence do you find convincing?
"[1] Latex allergies are noted on the cover of the chart (for the one hospital still using paper charts) and are displayed at the top of every screen on the electronic record - along with all other allergies.
[2] Patients with latex, nut and other life-threatening allergies have warnings posted on the door of their room and at the head of their bed alerting staff and visitors of the allergy and giving a lst of prohibited items (e.g. latex balloons).
[3] All four hospitals replaced latex examination gloves with nitrile, neoprene or chloroprene gloves over a decade ago.
[4] All four hospitals have had latex-free sterile surgical gloves available in all operating and treatment rooms for over a decade and have a policy that no latex-containing gloves may be used in the same room with patients who have latex allergies. "
Sounds about the same as all the inpatient units I've worked on or visited. All of the outpatient and community services I've been with have a similar policy of allergy awareness. Allergies are usually expressed on the front cover under the CPA system, or are flagged up at the top of the screen if using a front-end like SystmOne.
I'm struggling to think of any place that does not have a latex-reduction policy. Hell, even my current non-clinical place of work (handling warehousing for a major catalogue chain) will quarantine latex containing goods.
@Helen of Troy:
So when he comes here with a hypothesis, it's not his job to prove it, but our job to disprove it?
over- stimulated egos (i.e., Pseudo Greek Gods )
Someone using the pseudonym "Helen of Troy" does not want commenters like Prometheus naming themselves after figures from Greek mythology.
Maybe it's just my cynical nature, but I strongly suspect that "Helen of Troy" is a sock-puppet for Mr. Dochniak. After all, how many people can there be in the world that think the "latex-causes-autism" hypothesis is a "... viable hypothesis; cutting edge, futuristic..."?
What I found particularly puzzling was:
The "null hypothesis", in this case, would be that there is no difference in autism prevalence between those exposed to latex and those who weren't.
If "Helen" is suggesting that it is us who have to "validate" (i.e. "prove") the null hypothesis in order to invalidate Mr. Dochniak's "latex-causes-autism" hypothesis, she's got the cart before the horse - the burden of proof is on the proposer of the hypothesis, not those who disagree.
Of course, that interpretation is bit at odds with the next phrase: "...don't negate its creation." It may simply be that "Helen" has no idea what a "null hypothesis" is - which would seem to make it more likely that she's Mr. Dochniak's sock-puppet.
The one part of "Helen's" rather incoherent rant I agree with is that Mr. Dochniak's hypothesis is "...in its infancy." To become a toddler hypothesis, it needs the following:
[1] It needs to explain how the drop in latex use - in vaccines, in medicine and in general - is consistent with a rise in autism prevalence.
[2] It needs to explain why latex is unique in its ability to cause autism, i.e. why nuts, bacteria, etc., which are all complex mixtures of highly immunogenic proteins, don't also cause autism (or, if they do, what the data are that support this claim).
[3] It needs to explain why all, most or many children with regressive autism don't have latex allergies.
In short, Mr. Dochniak's hypothesis isn't fully formed. To follow "Helen's" analogy, it is more of a fetus than an infant. As my PhD advisor told me after my first attempt writing a hypothesis: "The only similarity between what you've written and an actual hypothesis is that they are both composed of words."
Prometheus
@Prometheus:
I can't find the comment where he said this, but I'm pretty sure he claimed that they lose the latex allergy as they grow older, so you'd only find the expected correlation if you looked at children who had just recently regressed. I have no idea if it's possible for a baby/toddler to have an allergy and then lose it a few years later, nor how common it is if it is possible.
Another thing he needs to explain is why the allergy doesn't manifest with any of the classical signs of allergy, but only with the development of autism.
Prometheus writes (#425), "It needs to explain why all, most or many children with regressive autism don't have latex allergies.
MjD's response:
I normally don't like to respond to a question with a question but here's the exception:
Prometheus, why don't all, most or many people with latex allergy die from anaphylactic shock?
Adaptive immunity is to variability what autism is to spectrum.
MjD
Why don't you answer our questions with actual evidence?
@Michael J. Dochniak:
First, do you mean:
1) It's possible for a type I hypersensitivity disorder of the immune system to have none of the overt physiological symptoms usually associated with allergies?
2) By "allergy" you mean something in addition to (or other than) a type I hypersensitivity disorder of the immune system.
If it's #1, do you have any other examples of allergies with no overt physiological symptoms? Or does it only happen with your proposed latex-allergies-which-cause-autism?
Second, shouldn't autistic children nonetheless have overt latex allergies at a greater rate than the non-autistic population?
This isn't a very effective counter-argument. Prometheus's question (taking the context of MJD's claims into account) is in the form "If A has caused epidemic numbers of B, then why are very few B to be found that have the characteristics necessary for A?"
MJD's response is "Why don't more A have outcome C?" The logic of MJD's response has no relevance to Prometheus's argument.
I could actually put together a logical counter from MJD's perspective but unless someone besides MJD shows interest, I'll spare everyone. I suspect no one except MJD is truly interested in keeping this conversation going, and I know MJD is interested only to promote his crank views, not to actually run the risk of re-examining them.
Mr. Feldspar writes (#430), "I could actually put together a logical counter from MJD's perspective but unless someone besides MJD shows interest, I'll spare everyone".
MjD's response:
I'm very interested... Can someone else please push Mr. Feldspar's "go" button?
MjD
Funny you should ask this considering that several of us have been asking this of you since you joined this conversation. Perhaps you could start with the answer to a very rudimentary question that has been proposed to you e.g. "It needs to explain why all, most or many children with regressive autism don't have latex allergies."
This is critical to your hypothesis, surely you can provide data that are at the very foundation of your assertion.
I'm thinking MjD misread Prometheus' argument. His statement was "It needs to explain why all, most or many children with regressive autism don't have latex allergies," but he read it as "It needs to explain why all, most or many children with latex allergies don't have regressive autism." So he's either dishonest or sloppy.
Science Mom writes (#432), "Perhaps you could start with the answer to a very rudimentary question that has been proposed to you e.g. "It needs to explain why all, most or many children with regressive autism don't have latex allergies."
MjD's response:
Let me repeat with clarity that the antigenic proteins in H. brasiliensis natural-latex can act as a catalyst in the development of atopy and allergy-induced regressive autism.
Vaccines that are contaminated with such antigenic proteins can intensify their catalytic effect, thereafter, increasing atopy and allergy-induced regressive autism in immune sensitive children.
Thus, fixating on the expression "latex allergy" diverts attention from data that shows the Hev-b proteins can adversely affect atypical adaptive-immunity through cross reactivity.
MjD
Hi Michael
Interesting hypothesis from the short excerpts I have read. The constant deconstruction often makes it hard to follow a 'conversation' with clarity on these forums.
Hypersensitivity to allergens such as the proteins you suggest, latex, I would think may well be an interesting area for study.
There is now clearer evidence via the Autism Genome Project University of California Davis Medical that at this time they have identified two 'subtypes ' if you wish of autism. One goes to the immune system and it is that which may interest some people that have experience with children with acute symtoms of immune system dysfunction for instance asthma , eczema , garden variety allergies and the more anaphylatic ones such as egg and nut.
You'd probably be then interested in the work undertaken by Johns Hopkins neuroimmunopathology in regards to neuroinflammation and the results of CSF.
Here's some interesting side readings ...
Increased serum levels of anti-ganglioside M1 auto-antibodies in autistic children: relation to the disease severity
http://www.jneuroinflammation.com/content/8/1/39/abstract
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0014299911007886
http://www.science-autism.org/CSF.htm
http://www.neuro.jhmi.edu/neuroimmunopath/autism.htm
Autoimmune and inflammatory mechanisms of CNS damage
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301008211001535
-----------------------------------------------------
I'm sure Orac will give this one the big intellectual hug...
Expert Review of Gastroenterology & Hepatology
Autoimmune and gastrointestinal dysfunctions: does a subset of children with autism reveal a broader connection?
http://www.expert-reviews.com/doi/abs/10.1586/egh.11.46
-------------------------------------------------------
ps Am I taking questions from skeptiks ? No.
Does repeating a statement make it true?
Prove it.
Post the journal, title and date of the papers that support your contentions. Remember no books and nothing from "Medical Hypothesis."
Seriously??? Once again, asserting something is true without providing firm evidence (and saying "buy my book" isn't an answer) is total BS.
Put up or shut up MjD.
You call that clarity? I call it gobbledygook.
Several posts back, I asked you to provide the biochemical pathways by which this occurs. You continue to refuse and merely obfuscate as though you are speaking to a bunch of rubes. Pony up or shut up, it's really as simple as that.
Dude, you're the one that has proposed that children with regressive autism are really suffering from latex allergies, now you are complaining that that is "diverting attention" from something. What data? You haven't presented a single shred of data to support your contention.
Oh, I know I'll regret this...
MjD:
"With clarity"? Who knew that Mr. Dochniak had such a wry sense of humour? The phrase, "...act as a catalyst..." is curious, as well. Does Mr. Dochniak claim that the latex proteins are not the cause of the "atopy and allergy-induced regressive autism" but only facilitate their development? That is what using the term "catalyst" would seem to imply. In that case, what is it that he proposes is causing the "atopy"?
Also, by linking "atopy" and "allergy-induced regressive autism", he has made a falsifiable claim, namely that atopy will be found more frequently in cases of regressive autism than it is in the general population. Does he have data to support this claim? If he did, I cannot imagine why he hasn't shown it.
Since Mr. Dochniak has admitted that he has done no actual "research", I made a search of the literature to see if there was anything there that might support his claim. I refer Mr. Dochniak to my findings:
[1] Bakkaloglu et al. Atopic features in early childhood autism. Eur. J. Paediatr. Neurol. 2008 Nov;12(6):476-9.
In other words, they found less atopy and other allergic features in autistic children than in the "normal" controls, despite the fact that the autistic children were more likely to have a family history of atopy. Now, the authors speculate that "immunological factors or environmental conditions" might be implied by this, but the data say nothing of the sort.
That's all I could find on "atopy" and autism and it doesn't support Mr. Dochniak's claim.
MjD:
So now it's the vaccines that have "catalytic effect" and the "antigenic proteins" - presumably any antigenic proteins (including the intended components of the vaccine, which makes this a circular anti-vax argument) - are simply...what? Catalysing the catalyst?
And then there is Mr. Dochniak's rather touching attempt to claim that the "allergy", "atopy" or whatever type of immune hypersensitivity he claims caused all of this somehow magically diasppears after the autism manifests. I'd like to see the study supporting that claim.
But, of course, we won't be seeing any of the data supporting Mr. Dochniak's startling claims...not unless we buy his book (and, I suspect, not even then). Mr Dochniak has been performing a fan dance with his data for the past few months, but my "research" (using PubMed, Web of Science, etc.) suggests that there's nothing behind the fans. And the little bit of his "reasoning" that Mr. Dochniak has inadvertently revealed supports that conclusion.
I'll stand by for the inevitable reiteration of claims and obligatory scathing quotation.
Prometheus
And I'm sure you won't be disappointed. MjD seems to have an awful lot of free time on his hands today to defend his claim. Perhaps he's at his booksigning.
Prometheus writes (#441), "But, of course, we won't be seeing any of the data supporting Mr. Dochniak's startling claims".
MjD's response:
Shen C, et al. A proteomic investigation of B lymphocytes in an autistic family: a pilot study of exposure to natural rubber latex (NRL) may lead to autism. J Mol Neurosci. 2011 Mar;43(3):443-52.
The pilot study references:
http://www.laboratoriosilesia.com/upfiles/sibi/P0807700.pdf
MjD
Lawrence writes (#437), "Put up or shut up MjD".
MjD's response:
A wise man (Larry A.) once said, "I wouldn't be who I am if it wasn't for autism". In parallel, I wouldn't be who I am if I didn't voice my ideas and opinions on the aetiology of allergy-induced regressive autism.
Thanks for your input Lawrence.
MjD
I read this report, did you? Let me break this down for you:
A.) The authors cite you which leads to a rather circular argument.
B.) The authors examined a single family with some autistic and some neurotypical children.
C.) The family worked in a latex factory; they were found to have elevated IgEs to latex. Shocking!
D.) The authors made the leaping conclusion that the mere presence of anti-latex IgE in a single family constituted a basis for claiming that latex could cause autism. All based upon absolutely nothing. The results do not support the authors' conclusions, nor do they support yours.
It was not a pilot study, it was a case report; stop inflating it's importance and it doesn't make your claim any more viable.
Science Mom writes (#444), " All based upon absolutely nothing".
MjD's response:
It's clear that infant exposure to H. brasiliensis natural-latex may be harmful and even life threatening.
Provided below is the FDA regulation that requires labeling of vaccines that contain natural latex.
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?f…
Why is natural-latex still in vaccines?
MjD
You are very repetitive, aren't you?
You have yet to prove that "allergy-induced regressive autism" even exists. Just provide the journal, title, and date of the papers that shows that it exists. And none of them can be from "Medical Hypothesis", nor reference that journal nor reference anything you write. It has to be an independent finding.
Mr. Dochniak (#442) repeats previously made (and addressed) claims about the Shen et al (2011) paper. See my comment above (#93) for a detailed deconstruction of this case series.
He then - again - attemtps to claim that the FDA requirement that vaccines with latex stoppers be so labeled as "evidence" that the FDA somehow knows that latex causes autism.
Mr. Dochniak, has it ever occurred to you that the FDA requires labeling of latex-stoppered vials (of all medications, not just vaccines) because...I don't know...maybe because there are people with latex allergies?
So, I correctly predicted the "reiteration of claims" but apparently missed on the "obligatory scathing quotation". Of course, the day isn't over yet.
Prometheus
The repetitive arguments put forward by Mr. Dochniak are indication of the poverty of his ideas.
In microbial ecology, we make use of a tool known as the rarefaction curve to determine the species "richness" of an environment. In brief, when you sample environments that have a lot of different species, you won't see "duplicates" as frequently. In species-poor environments, duplicates pop up more often.
Mr. Dochniak keeps coming back with the same arguments - and not many of them - which suggests that he doesn't have a very "idea-rich" environment in his head. This isn't necessarily a problem, since more ideas doesn't always (often?) translate into better ideas. However, the rising number of "duplicates" indicates that we have seen the majority of Mr. Dochniak's ideas vis a vis latex and autism.
And since all of the ideas Mr. Dochniak has brought to this forum have been flawed or demonstrably wrong, the rarefaction curve suggests that we can be reasonably certain there isn't an undetected reserve of good ideas we haven't seen.
Clearly, Mr. Dochniak is convinced that he is right - despite the data - to the point that he says (#443) that:
I wouldn't think of telling Mr. Dochniak to go against his nature and listen to the data instead of his heart. That doesn't mean that I'm going to give him a "bye" when he tries to pass off his imagination as fact, however.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions - no matter how ridiculous - but we can't each have our own reality.
Prometheus
Prometheus writes (#448), "However, the rising number of 'duplicates' indicates that we have seen the majority of Mr. Dochniak's ideas vis a vis latex and autism.
MjD's response to Prometheus:
It's clear that we're not on the same page when it comes to allergy-induced regressive autism. But, here's an idea, let's turn the page and co-submit a citizen petition to the FDA requesting a regulation which bans the use of H. brasiliensis natural-latex in vaccine packaging. In doing so, together we can enhance public health by reducing the incidence of latex allergy in children.
When can we start writing said petition? Please advise...
MjD
Mr. Dochniak:
Right after you come up with the evidence you have been asked for repeatedly. Just post the journal, title, and date of the papers that support your contention that there is "allergy-induced regressive autism" and it has been increasing. Remember nothing written by you, nor that cites you and definitely not anything by Medical Hypothesis.
By the way, what happened to it?
MjD, shouldn't you try to find out whether natural latex causes problems first, then start making petitions?
Gray Falcon writes (#451), "MjD, shouldn't you try to find out whether natural latex causes problems first, then start making petitions".
MjD's response:
Promethesus and I know that repeated exposure to the natural-latex proteins increases the possibility of acquiring latex allergy (e.g., health care industry). We'll submit that natural-latex in vaccine packaging is an unessesary route of exposure for children that must be eliminated.
MjD
MjD, I sincerely hope you're not in the medical profession. You seem to have a policy of "amputate, then check for gangrene."
Chris writes (#450), " Remember nothing written by you, nor that cites you and definitely not anything by Medical Hypothesis".
MjD's response:
Everytime you write this another restriction is applied. Will you have a font size and ink quality restriction? Your making me nervous...
MjD
Chris has been giving you those same restrictions all along. You just ignore them.
The reason for not allowing anything written by you, nor anything that cites any of your papers is because you have no medical research training. You work in an industrial setting, and have not conducted any actual medical research.
The evidence has to be independent. In other words, not related to you in any way. Why is that difficult for you to understand?
If you want to know why "Medical Hypothesis" is not allowed, find a dictionary and look up the word "hypothesis."
Now, where is that independent evidence that "allergy-induced regressive autism" exists?
Chris writes (#456), "Now, where is that independent evidence that "allergy-induced regressive autism" exists?"
MjD's response:
http://iospress.metapress.com/content/w6820728082nu597/
MjD
In continuation Chris writes (#456), "The reason for not allowing anything written by you, nor anything that cites any of your papers is because you have no medical research training. You work in an industrial setting, and have not conducted any actual medical research".
MjD's response:
I know there's a compliment in there somewhere.
MjD
Yay! He seems to be getting it. Now show that autism is actually caused allergies. Because, basically they found that kids with autism have can have allergies.
So what? Lots of kids have allergies, and they are not autistic. Probably in about the same 52% proportion.
Orac writes after the press release above, "Because, to the anti-vaccine, first and foremost, it's always about the vaccines. Always. No matter what the evidence shows. Never forget that".
MjD's response:
There's evidence Orac, refuse vaccines that have latex warnings.
MjD
Oh look, they cite Mr. Dochniak but also can't provide any evidence to support that hypothesis; it's like a Wakefield redux. Still reading...
Thanks, Science Mom, I can only see the abstract. I also noticed that it is not indexed at PubMed.
Now, Mr. Dochniak has missed a crucial fact: since there is no evidence there is a correlation between vaccines and autism, trying to show it is from something in the vaccines is going to very difficult.
Chris writes (#462), "Now, Mr. Dochniak has missed a crucial fact: since there is no evidence there is a correlation between vaccines and autism, trying to show it is from something in the vaccines is going to very difficult".
MjD's response:
Once the FDA bans the use of H. brasiliensis natural-latex in vaccine packaging and the natural-latex rubber industry substantially removes the Hevea-allgens, the prevalence of mental retardation, by those affected with latex-allergy-induced regressive autism, will diminish in future generations.
MjD
MjD, it has already been pointed latex exposure has already been reduced, and rates of autism have not gone down.
Prove it.
With something like this:
Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med. 2006 Mar;160(3):302-9.
Impact of specific medical interventions on reducing the prevalence of mental retardation.
Brosco JP, Mattingly M, Sanders LM.
Show that allergies cause mental retardation, and that they do it more than the actual diseases.
And you still have this little nagging problem in that the following large epidemiological studies show no correlation between vaccines and autism. So really, you have to show that vaccines cause autism before you can decide that an ingredient, and even part of the bottle causes autism:
Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2010 May;29(5):397-400.
Lack of association between measles-mumps-rubella vaccination and autism in children: a case-control study.
Mrozek-Budzyn D, Kieltyka A, Majewska R.
Neuropsychological Performance 10 years after Immunization in Infancy with Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines
Authors: Tozzi AE, Bisiacchi P, Tarantino V, De Mei B, D'Elia L, Chiarotti F, Salmaso S.
Source: Pediatrics, February 2009, Vol. 123(2):475-82
Early Thimerosal Exposure and Neuropsychological Outcomes at 7 to 10 Years
Thompson WW, Price C, Goodson B, et al; Vaccine Safety Datalink Team
N Engl J Med, Sep 27, 2007; 357(13):1281-1292
Safety of Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines: A Two-Phased Study of Computerized Health Maintenance Organization Databases
Verstraeten T, Davis RL, DeStefano F, et al
Pediatrics, November 2003, Vol. 112(5):1039-1048
Association Between Thimerosal-Containing Vaccine and Autism
Hviid A, Stellfeld M, Wohlfahrt J, Melbye M
Journal of the American Medical Association, October 1, 2003, Vol. 290(13):1763-6
Thimerosal and the Occurrence of Autism: Negative Ecological Evidence from Danish Population-Based Data
Madsen KM, Lauritsen MB, Pedersen CB, et al
Pediatrics, Sept. 2003, Vol. 112(3 Pt 1):604-606
Autism and Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines. Lack of Consistent Evidence for an Association
Stehr-Green P, Tull P, Stellfeld M, Mortenson PB, Simpson D
American Journal of Preventive Medicine, August 2003, Vol. 25(2):101-6
Encephalopathy after whole-cell pertussis or measles vaccination: lack of evidence for a causal association in a retrospective case-control study.
Ray P, Hayward J, Michelson D, Lewis E, Schwalbe J, Black S, Shinefield H, Marcy M, Huff K, Ward J, Mullooly J, Chen R, Davis R; Vaccine Safety Datalink Group.
Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2006 Sep;25(9):768-73.
Measles Vaccination and Antibody Response in Autism Spectrum Disorders.
Baird G et al.
Arch Dis Child 2008; 93(10):832-7.
Subjects: 98 vaccinated children aged 10-12 years in the UK with autism spectrum disorder (ASD); two control groups of similar age: 52 children with special educational needs but no ASD and 90 children in the typically developing group
MMR-Vaccine and Regression in Autism Spectrum Disorders: Negative Results Presented from Japan.
Uchiyama T et al.
J Autism Dev Disord 2007; 37(2):210-7
*Subjects: 904 children with autism spectrum disorder
(Note: MMR was used in Japan only between 1989 and 1993.)
No effect of MMR withdrawal on the incidence of autism: a total population study.
Honda H, Shimizu Y, Rutter M.
J Child Psychol Psychiatry. 2005 Jun;46(6):572-9.
MMR Vaccination and Pervasive Developmental Disorders: A Case-Control Study.
Smeeth L et al.
Lancet 2004; 364(9438):963-9
*Subjects: 1294 cases and 4469 controls
Neurologic Disorders after Measles-Mumps-Rubella Vaccination.
Makela A et al.
Pediatrics 2002; 110:957-63
*Subjects: 535,544 children vaccinated between November 1982 and June 1986 in Finland
A Population-Based Study of Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Vaccination and Autism.
Madsen KM et al.
N Engl J Med 2002; 347(19):1477-82
*Subjects: All 537,303 children born 1/91â12/98 in Denmark
I have a comment in moderation, but essentially it says:
Prove it.
Show that allergies cause mental retardation.
And show that the risk of neurological damage is greater with latex allergies than with Hib, measles, mumps, and other vaccine preventable diseases. And remember there is a criteria for acceptable evidence: done by those who know what they are doing, and actually know enough not to cite you!
In continuation Chris writes (#462), "...there is no evidence there is a correlation between vaccines and autism..."
MjD's response:
Medical science has discovered there is a correlation between natural-latex exposure and allergy.
Specifically, repeated exposure to H. brasiliensis natural-latex increases the incidence of an allergic response to said latex.
In the spirit of do no harm, H. brasiliensis natural-latex use in vaccine packaging should be discontinued. Therafter, affecting the prevalence of allergy-induced regressive autism in future generations.
MjD
Michael J. Dochniak is a warlock. Michael J. Dochniak is a warlock. Michael J. Dochniak is a warlock. Michael J. Dochniak is a warlock. Michael J. Dochniak is a warlock. Michael J. Dochniak is a warlock. Michael J. Dochniak is a warlock. Michael J. Dochniak is a warlock. Michael J. Dochniak is a warlock.Did I just prove you are a warlock?
Gray Falcon writes (#464), "MjD, it has already been pointed latex exposure has already been reduced, and rates of autism have not gone down."
MjD's response:
Removing/eliminating latex gloves in hospitals is a good start.
Taking natural-latex out of vaccine packaging is imperative.
Banning the use of natural-latex bottle nipples and pacifiers would be a breakthrough health-initiative.
MjD
MjD, why should I trust an accused warlock?
@ Gray Falcon:
If we were @ AoA, I'd say, "Yes".
Since we're not: "No".
Mr. Dochniak, repeating himself again:
So what? What real evidence do you have that allergies cause autism? I've only asked for this evidence half a dozen times, and you have failed to provide any independent medical evidence. What you have done is push your book and cite second rate papers that cite you!
I come from a family with lots of allergies, it happens to be genetic. I have allergies, some severe (pollen, and nickel), and two of my kids have allergies (one is lactose intolerant). My father has allergies (even to nickel). Both of my siblings have allergies, and one is also very severely lactose intolerant (she also has a severe allergy to wool). None of us are autistic.
The one kid I have with no allergies is also developmentally disabled. He has had seizures, and one of the most severe one was as toddler due to a now vaccine preventable disease.
Now, prove your contortions with real evidence.
Chris writes (#471), "The one kid I have with no allergies is also developmentally disabled. He has had seizures, and one of the most severe one was as toddler due to a now vaccine preventable disease."
MjD's response:
There is still very much to learn about immunity and human development.
Best wishes to your developmentally disabled child and your family.
MjD
Some vaccines contain natural latex, to which some individuals are allergic. Some people with natural latex allergies have graduated summa cum laude from undergraduate programs and gone on to get PhDs. Therefore, natural latex causes PhDs. QED.
Todd W. writes (#473), "Some people with natural latex allergies have graduated summa cum laude from undergraduate programs and gone on to get PhDs."
MjD's response:
There is also genius in ASD (e.g., savants). Within the autism spectrum there is a range of intellectual capabilities ranging from severely mentally retarded to genius. Atypical adaptive immunity is a mechanism which can help explain such cognitive variability.
MjD
Let's try this again, since Michael didn't get it the first time.
Some vaccines contain natural latex, to which some individuals are allergic. Some people with natural latex allergies are named Bob. Therefore, natural latex causes the name Bob. QED.
Mr. Dochniak:
Which is not helped by non-scientists making stuff up.
So, again, where is that real evidence that allergies cause autism? Something by qualified medical researchers that know enough not to cite you?
Mr. Dochniak, in an attempt to find "common ground", has elected to speak for me without first seeing if I agree with him:
This is the sort of "trick" that is used by politicians and used car salesmen - the "we can agree on...." gambit. There is little Mr. Dochniak and I agree on and I resent his ham-handed attempt to steal my legitimacy (such as it is) to cover his lack.
While it is true that repeated exposure to latex - or any other allergen - is required to develop an allergy, I have not seen any data showing that the miniscule bit of latex found in vaccines is capable of causing a latex allergy.
It seems rather premature to lobby for the mandatory and immediate removal of latex in vaccine stoppers (which is already happening voluntarily) when there are so many other, more significant, exposures to latex. I realise that Mr. Dochniak has asserted that early exposure to latex predisposes to latex allergy, but that is just one of his many unsupported claims.
And Mr. Dochniak provides a citation that he claims supports his assertions, but when we go to the article (in the Journal of Pediatric Neurology - which isn't indexed, except for two articles...not this one) we discover that the authors found:
At least this study - unlike the one I cited earlier - found increased "allergic manifestations" in the autistic subjects, although there was no mention - apart from a brief, parenthetical appearance - of latex. Again, this finding supports the hypothesis that immune disorders are an effect of autism, not necessarily the cause.
And let's not overlook that this study also didn't correct for income or living conditions, which can have a significant impact on "allergic manifestations", especially in Cairo.
Mr. Dochniak continues (as he always does):
Again, true. But as comedian Dara O Briain put it:
I couldn't put it better, myself.
Prometheus
Well, Mr. Dochniak, that is an interesting way to shill your book!
I have actually had the privilege to know mike and i have been in a lot of scientific discussions with him and what he says makes a lot of sense to me. Now a lot of you talk like your high up scientists and your all stuck on the idea he is wrong so prove he is wrong because he is getting ahead because his theory is getting very recognized
Dan, I think you need to sharpen your critical thinking skills. I am not stuck on the idea he is wrong, I simply want him to show us the evidence he has for his contentions that autism can be caused by allergies.
As you can see by my experience being from a family that is genetically prone to allergies, and having one child who was injured from an actual disease, that I expect a certain level of evidence. Mr. Dochniak is making an incredible claim, but has produced nothing that is even remotely convincing.
It is not our duty to show he is wrong, it is his duty to present the actual evidence. All he has done is repeat the same statement, but has failed to show any scientific data to support that statement.
Yes Chris he has i tried to tell him to just give you the evidence but he claimed he already did and that none of you noticed it was evidence so Mike STOP THINK WERE NOT SMART ENOUGH TO SEE IT AND SHOW IT AND WHEN YOU DO START WITH THIS IS MY EVIDENCE so their cant be a dispute over you never showed evidence.
Where did he show evidence? I'm not just taking a rude person's word on it.
I'm sorry, Dan, could you try that again with grammar and punctuation? I cannot understand what you are yelling about.
Mr. Dochniak has not presented any independent evidence that allergies, particularly latex allergies, cause autism. All he does is repeat a statement that it exists, like we should accept his word. We want evidence.
I'm getting the impression "Dan" only came here to start a fight. Time to get the troll repellent...