Here we go again.
In fact, I think I'm starting to see a pattern here among antivaccine organizations. You might remember that in November 2010, the antivaccine group SafeMinds bought ad space in AMC Theaters over the Thanksgiving holiday weekend, one of the heaviest moviegoing time periods of the year. This use of pre-movie time to promote antivaccine propaganda resulted in a campaign by skeptics to try to persuade AMC to see the error of its ways, a campaign that was successful.
Then, a few months later, the the grande dame of the antivaccine movement, arguably the woman who started the most recent incarnation of that hoary old anti-science movement back in the 1980s, Barbara Loe Fisher, decided to start advertising the antivaccine message she promotes through her group, the Orwellian-named National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) using the JumboTron in Times Square. Unfortunately, despite protests from the American Academy of Pediatrics, promoters of science-based medicine, and skeptics, the ads apparently aired for the full buy.
Then, a few months later (just last month, in fact), somehow the NVIC managed to dupe Delta Airlines, through its video provider In-Flight Media into airing a more subtle "public service announcement" whose antivaccine message was cleverly muted so that it wasn't so obvious, except to those of us who knew the NVIC (and, of course, the buzzwords used by the antivaccine movement) that its message was antivaccine. Of course, it also didn't help that the PSA urged viewers to go to the NVIC website, which, as I've described many times before, is a font of misinformation, pseudoscience, and antivaccine propaganda. (Just type "NVIC" into this blog's search box to see.) At least Fisher's response of crying "repression" in response to the AAP's complaint to Delta Air Lines was good for a chuckle or two. Unfortunately, the NVIC advertorials aired through the entire buy. Meanwhile, this fall a major dump of antivaccine propaganda was circulating around the country in various film festivals in the form of an antivaccine propaganda movie called The Greater Good, whose manipulativeness and misinformation would make a North Korean propagandists planning state media coverage of Kim Jong-il's funeral blush.
Now, it would appear, the NVIC wants to close out 2011 and ring in 2012 with a new round of antivaccine propaganda, this time revisiting Times Square at the heart of the New Years Eve celebration, an effort it's trumpeting through a press release entitled National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) Educates One Million Plus in Times Square on New Year's Eve. Here, Barbara, I'll fix that for you. It should read "National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) Mis-Educates One Million Plus in Times Square on New Year's Eve."
There, that's better.
Interestingly, the ad is not airing on the JumboTron (perhaps CBS turned the NVIC down). This time, it's airing on the TSQdigital display right by the TKTS Broadway Ticket Booth. But what, exactly, is the NVIC airing? Well, here's the description from the press release:
The non-profit National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) is sponsoring a vaccine education message during the New Year's Eve celebration in Times Square on the 5,000 square-foot TSQ Digital screen at 47th St. and 7th Avenue in New York City. The 15-second ad, which encourages informed decision-making, has been shown on the megatron twice an hour for 21 hours a day since Dec. 16, 2011.
"Everyone has the right to know about the benefits and risks of products and choose the kind of preventive health care they want for themselves and their children."
"In 2012, NVIC will mark our 30th year of public education and consumer empowerment," said NVIC co-founder and president Barbara Loe Fisher. "With so many health care options available today, becoming an educated health care consumer is essential and our pro-informed consent message will be seen by millions on New Year's Eve."
The full-color LED screen on which NVIC's ad is appearing is located near the Times Square Information Center in the heart of the Broadway district and is one of the largest digital display screens in the Times Square area. An estimated one million people pack the Times Square area during New Year's Eve and the celebration is viewed on television by billions of people around the world.
NVIC co-sponsored a similar vaccine education message with Mercola.com last spring on another display in Times Square. During November, NVIC sponsored a flu prevention video on Delta Air Line's in-flight programming that encouraged consumers to become informed about how to stay well during the flu season and all year-around.
"Knowledge is the key to informed consumer decision-making," said Fisher. "Everyone has the right to know about the benefits and risks of products and choose the kind of preventive health care they want for themselves and their children."
As I said, NVIC has the Orwellian language down pat. It wraps up its antivaccine message in a cloak of "informed consent" and "educating the consumer," and who could argue with that? Of course, it all comes down to what specifically is meant by "informed consent" and "educating the consumer." As I described in detail, when an antivaccine propagandist like Barbara Loe Fisher refers to "informed consent," what she is really referring to is "misinformed consent," in which consumers are subjected to misinformation about vaccines that vastly overestimates the risks and vastly downplays the benefits or try to cast the benefits in a manner that makes them seem inconsequential, sometimes in hilariously stupid ways. Often, antivaccine activists use even more hilariously bad science to bolster their misinformed arguments. Or the bad science would be hilarious if the consequences of its use weren't so potentially deadly.
Anyway, let's look at the video:
It would appear that the NVIC has--shall we say?--simplified its message for Times Square. Basically, the video consists of a picture of a mother holding a baby (which is a favorite image of the antivaccine movement, of course) with the NVIC logo and website URL in the lower left hand corner. It then flashes the words "Vaccines: Know the risks" followed by "Vaccination: Your Health. Your Family. Your Choice," the latter superimposed over a graphic of the Statue of Liberty.
Subtle, isn't it?
Those not familiar with the NVIC would ask: What on earth is wrong with this message? Don't you want parents to know the risks of vaccination? Don't you think that personal freedom is important? Let's go back to the concept of misinformed consent. If you know, as I do, that the NVIC website is a cesspit of pseudoscience, fear mongering, and misinformation about vaccines (again, type "NVIC" into the search box of this blog for examples), then this video starts to look a lot less benign. The reason, of course, is that it's not the purpose of the NVIC to provide parents with an evidence- and science-based assessment of vaccine risks and benefits. The purpose of the NVIC is to scare parents into not vaccinating.
Barbara Loe Fisher will strenuously deny that she is antivaccine and claim that she is pro-vaccine safety. There might, in fact, have been a time when this might arguably have been true, but Fisher long ago passed from being a vaccine safety activist into the realm of antivaccine nuttery, as her website demonstrates so strongly. I think it would be really interesting one day to ask Fisher a simple question: "If you're not 'antivaccine,' then please tell us which vaccines you consider safe and effective. Which vaccines should be on the pediatric vaccine schedule?" I've yet to find a statement by Fisher in the last decade supporting the use of any vaccine. Of course, Fisher, being the seasoned PR flack for the antivaccine movement that she's become over the last 30 years, probably has a pat answer to that question that hides her antivaccine agenda, at least to the unknowing. It's still a good question to ask any antivaccine activist very insistently. The answer often reveals much. In fact, if you want to see an example of this very technique in action, check out the comments after this post on the anti vaccine propaganda blog Age of Autism in which a commenter asks Jake Crosby which vaccine(s) he finds acceptable. John Stone responds with some blather about "parental choice" (completely dodging the question) and Jake responds thusly:
No, I don't "care to explain." I don't have to explain anything. The people who are anti-vaccine are the people who say they are anti-vaccine - not the people who say vaccines cause autism - although I am sure the latter understandably includes some of the former.
Brilliant reply, Jake! Ya think? Barbara Loe Fisher is, of course, less clumsy at dancing around difficult questions than the Boy Wonder of the antivaccine movement. Unfortunately, he'll no doubt get better with practice. He is, after all, very young and inexperienced in propaganda, and it shows. In any case, the purpose of this Times Square ad is clearly to get people to go to the NVIC website and drink of the antivaccine crazy therein, and it's apparently been airing for nearly two weeks. It will be airing on New Years Eve.
And Jenny McCarthy will be promoting it on Dick Clark's Rockin' New Year's Eve. At least, she plans to try.
Take a look at the the Facebook page of the propaganda arm of the antivaccine group Generation Rescue (screenshot sent to me by a reader):
Yes, that's Jenny McCarthy promising to try to mention the NVIC ad on Dick Clark's New Year's Rockin' Eve. So much for my wondering if she had faded away from direct involvement with the antivaccine group Generation Rescue. Of course, the yearly New Year's Eve special on ABC is intended to be pure fluff, entertainment and nothing more. If Jenny actually does mention the NVIC ad on air, it would be quite jarring and out of sync with the rest of the show. My guess is that the producers would probably not approve. Perhaps a brief heads-up is in order at the ABC contact page.
Maybe they should get a copy of that screenshot, along with an explanation as to why the NVIC's message is harmful.
As usual, Elyse Anders has other suggestions as well. First, there's a Change.org petition. And then there are these suggestions:
Tweet @DisneyChannelPR using #ABCsSickNYE. You can copy/paste one of these or write your own:
I resolve to end deadly anti-vaccine propaganda. @DisneyChannelPR Pull NVIC's anti-vax Times Square ad http://wp.me/pbblq-6RR #ABCsSickNYE
Whooping cough is on the rise thanks to things like NVIC advertising on @DisneyChannelPR screens in NYC. #ABCsSickNYE http://bit.ly/rXLHOd
Don't forget to tell them what you'll be doing instead of tuning into ABC for Dick Clark's New Year's Rockin' Eve featuring the NVIC ad in the background. (And starring Jenny McCarthy... for real.)
Sounds like a plan to me.
- Log in to post comments
It wouldn't be worth responding to the nonsense you try to propagate, except that there are plenty of innocent bystanders online who might be suckered in by the deluge of half-baked anti-vaccine propaganda.
I wouldn't worry too much about that in this case. If Th1Th2 has ever succeeded in convincing anyone of anything that it intended to, I haven't seen it. And it certainly hasn't been able to point out an example or even concoct one when directly asked.
You "hear" from whom?
Are you unable to recall your own comments adequately to, you know, go check?
@BronzeDog
I remember my days (well, day, to be more precise) trolling the MDC forums... If I recall, I got banned after two posts.
Silvermaven:
WTF?
Is Thingy still here? I hardly noticed.
Now, if Teacher decided to grace us with his/her presence, I would love to see which vaccines on the pediatric are still only available with thimerosal.
Also, I'd like to know which she prefers: treating pertussis, Streptococcus pneumoniae or haemophilus influenzae b with antibiotics, or preventing them with vaccines.
I hear posts were removed that didn't fit the guidelines of this snake pit where I doubt sincere people are regulars & I bet they included mine, right?
It's hard to have a good-faith argument with someone whose standard of evidence is "I hear".
Chris
My money is on homeopathy.
Oh goody, Marsha sounds like a redux of that nutter we had last year who promised his epic mind-blowing exposure of the vaccine industry over a year ago. The one who somehow interviewed the FDA, CDC, FBI, and The Mossad et al.
@Silvermaven:
You LOL left LOL out LOL the LOL manganese LOL. -LOL
I'm one of these lurkers that is speaking up to commend those of you who are so patiently defending science. This has been a most entertaining way to spend some holiday time while my children (yes, I'm a Mother!!) play with their friends and their new goodies. It is, however, shocking to see a nurse and a teacher so far out of touch with reality. My mother is a nurse, and mother-in-law is a teacher. Mom saw many children pass away from vaccine-preventable diseases back when she first started out, and my MIL had polio as a child. All 3 of us are highly-educated mothers, your target audience. Many of you new commenters would probably assume we would see things your way .... but since I am also a health care professional who has actually worked in research, I can promise you that after reading the literature I have come to the appropriate conclusions regarding vaccine safety.
So I think it's time for you to all go and enjoy your New Year, and go back to wherever it is you came from.
The Dunning-Kruger effect turns up fairly often on RI posts. I don't know if there's been much research into the personality traits associated with the effect... in other words, the traits that make it possible for someone to combine a high regard for his or her abilities or knowledge of a subject, along with actual incompetence and ignorance.
Seems to me, though, that one essential trait is the ability to tune out evidence, and one's own experiences, whenever they conflict with one's confident statements.
On this thread, for instance, we have Marsha at 341 ("I have been censored due to beating you guys up with truth"), responding this way to evidence that there is no censorship:
"I hear posts were removed that didn't fit the guidelines of this snake pit".
Marsha @330 dealing with unfavourable statistics: "It's all a scam & the stats are mostly fake. Doctored to make it look like it's not."
It must be easy to maintain blithely confident of one's competence when a Reality Distortion Field blocks out all the disconfirming evidence, but it doesn't really encourage other people to try to engage in debate.
#483 Marsha
@ Narad, Agashem:
Thank you. I don't really have any hope of convincing Thingy, but sometimes, it's fascinating, in a trainwreck sort of way... Now, she's even failing to recognise a correct use of blockquotes to cite two different sources. Sheesh.
@missmayinga:
Has the meaning of "troll" and "trolling" changed over the recent years? Currently it seems to mean something like "arguing in an online venue when your views are diametrically opposed to the views of the venue".
@Science Mom:
Yeah, that's exactly who I was thinking of. "Smarter Than You" would show us all... eventually.
Ahhh, thank you Matthew Cline; I couldn't think of his name but his claims were sure memorable. Happy New Year to all!
Marsha keeps telling us about the big announcement, and all these great things she says will happen. I'm just wondering who goes around bragging about victories they haven't yet won? All they're doing is making themselves look a) arrogant, b) desperate, or c) both.
@Matthew Cline
Maybe "trolling" wasn't exactly the best term - while I wasn't being particularly polite about my points, I hadn't exactly sunk to Thingy's level of discourse, either. Still, it's not like I was on there for some particularly noble purpose - I was basically just looking to pick fights with the kooks.
MESSAGE BEGINS------------------------
Shills and Minions,
My goodness but you have been busy have you not? Kudos to bringing some of the most spectacularly dangerous of the Antivaxxer rebels into our line of . . . sight. They know far too much about our plans, for instance, our civilian airliner division's aerosolized vaccines and primate stupefication mists. They must be stopped at all costs. And the Silvermaven has us dead to rights with our advanced prion manipulation technology and our ability to know when to fold 'em. But it's their ringleader, the innocuous sounding Grandma Marsha who is the most dangerous of all. Of course we fear her revealing the truth about us and our nefarious and eeeeeeevil plans to turn your species into strapping, idiotic, malleable slaves for the unobtrusium mines. We have several operatives on her property shapeshifted to appear as exact simulacra of her domesticated animals. They have been successful so far in preventing her from revealing a truth that is so truly truthy that it will make the regular truth seem like a lie. But she must be reached, and quickly by some bipedal agents with opposable thumbs or very dexterous tentacles. Crude hooves, beaks and paws are just too limited with what we're up against when it comes to this crafty rebel and her dangerous little band.
Commendations to Minions Chris, Lilady, Science Mom, Militant Agnostic, DW(DL, Class VIII), Krebiozen, Narad, Ren, Missmayinga and others for their valiant efforts to stop these creatures from ruining everything we have worked so hard for on this planet.
As for the damaged practice drone Th1Th2, sorry about that, we're still trying to figure out how to turn it off, but it's not responding to commands at this time so any ideas you have will be most welcome.
Stay vigilant Shills and Minions, stay vigilant!
Lord Draconis Zeneca iH7vhiL
PharmaCOM Orbital
Foreward Mavoon of the Great Fleet, Pharmaca Magna of Terra, Subjugator General of Sol, Etc.
---------------------------MESSAGE ENDS
My dearest Lord Draconis,
Although we shills and minions have been remarkably successful @ RI I must report that a new threat has been evolving on our event horizon: alt med proselytisers have not shirked their duties as Truth Tellers and are now venturing far beyond their storied expertise in revealing PharmaPlots to un-cover the deeper inter-connected workings of our manipulations of terran economies (Euro: Pound: Dollar) and entrenched political party sytems; additionally, they are warning their followers about the up-coming inter-galactic power surge that will render electronic communications null and void. They know about plan 2012. They have traced our existence back to the Enlightenment. They are on to us. They realise that PharmaControl is only a gateway drug.
At any rate, I want you to know I've been keeping my finger on the pulse of the alternative media where they bravely publish all of our secrets. On a daily basis.
On a lighter note, the Solstice & Year's End celebrations were mildly entertaining and gave us all a chance to trade war stories as we drank really expensive hootch. Again, thanks for buying me that company.
Most sincerely yours,
DW (DL/8) OMFG, I'm an eight!
MESSAGE BEGINS------------------------
Shill Class VIII DW DL etc., etc . . .
Pardon my breach of nomenclature etiquette, you are so decorated I can hardly keep up with all your medals, commendations, certificates and quaatch v'mheks.
This news you bring is most disturbing. I shall have to notify Egg-Queen Lizz and various Rothchilds about this situation. I'll also have to meet with representatives from the other invading forces the Kthraaxxx, Binthramz, Marcabians, Vinx, Zorgs and Helatrobans. And yes, the Zorgs are a real species. We just call them that because you'd never be able to pronounce their real names without chitinous mouthparts. Most dread-inducing is that I will also have to make a trip to the homeworld for an audience with Her Imperial Highness' newly appointed Grand Vitara, Vioxxianna XXIII. She is most formidable, and finding out that the monkeys are on to her plans to use the galactic core's vast power to carry out our little plan here on Terra . . . well, it makes this veteran of more than a few bloody campaigns of conquest tremble in my chaavx t'raahnk.
Thank you Dark Lady, for this valuable if unwelcome information. I hope we didn't lose too many agents acquiring it. On a lighter note, I'm happy to report that the main control deck here at PharmaCOM Orbital is no worse for our company New Year celebration last cycle. No beverages spilled into control webs or shorted-out gel interfaces this year. The Vinx Ambassador asked for you rather insistently and became somewhat beligerent when it became apparent that you were not on the final Obsidian run of the evening. We were geosynchronus with the International Date Line for the party so we'd be the first to ring in the new.
In any case it's going to be a busy year for us, Shills and Minions. We have a planet to subjugate and there's our new Glaxxon Lunar Base Grand Opening this June, so get back to work and remember our motto and keep it dear to your hearts: Shee*chemlach, Treevekk, Thcvorkadz mev Pvaast Steek v'Pvassscht Kai! (Mockery, Dismissiveness, Ridicule and Hide in Plain Sight!)
Stay frosty my villainous monkeys,
Lord Draconis Zeneca VH7iL2
00010110
Foreward Mavoon of the Great Fleet, Subjugator General of Terra, Pharmaca Magna of Terra, Fan of Grandma Marsha's Gluten-Free Cricket Chip Cookie Recipe
Glaxxon PharmaCOM Orbital
------------------------MESSAGE ENDS
Since the much anticipated announcement has still not materialized, am I safe in assuming that The Device worked and Grandma Marsha was successfully silenced?
I see Grandma Marsha hasn't yet appeared with her serious and urgent warning that will save children from disease and/or death.
Oh well, I'm sure she'll be back soon. Marsha posted a link to the Jenny McCarthy thread on her facebook page (thanks Marsha :), no doubt so her followers could watch in awe at her heroic warrior exploits on RI. I'm sure she won't want to disappoint them.
Or perhaps she'll just tell them she has "bigger fish to fry".
MESSAGE BEGINS--------------------
⢠DEVICE NOT DEPLOYED----REPEAT-----DEVICE NOT DEPLOYED----FURTHER [MINION] INSTRUCTIONS ON CHANNEL CODE NAME "ANGRY SANTA IN A BRA"-----[SHILL] INSTRUCTIONS ON CHANNEL CODE NAME "THE CEMENT PIG HAS A GUN"---------------
GRANDMA MARSHA STILL ON THE RUN AND BROADCASTING MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF TRUTHFULY TRUE TRUTHY TRUTH---------STOP AT ALL COSTS â¢
LDZ VH7iL2
MISSIVE CODE: VERMILLION
VECTOR: 2.774
SECURITY LEVEL: NEVER FUCKING EVEN HEARD OF IT
FLAMBOYANCE LEVEL: LIBERACE
---------------MESSAGE ENDS
I see you have been at play having fun while waiting for the urgent message I promised. I would have been here sooner but had a couple of tasks to complete & was joining a gold mine of Ron Paul groups I happened upon & had to send them all an important message before I could get back here. First things first.
I'll say what I have to then leave you to your shenanigans while working, unfortunately, to hold children in harms way.
Maybe innocent reader's children will benefit from what I'll tell you & maybe even some of your children of you who are dark hearted & callous because even you have the capacity to love your own, I'm sure.
Anyone here defending vaccines at this point, as some of you regulars do, have know the truth by now. Soon you won't be able to escape what's coming. Jokes or no jokes. I'm sure some started out in this work beLIEving in vaccines but now that there's so much fact & evidence out, playing ignorant won't work when the ax falls for some of you big names here pushing legal & dangerous drugs.
Watch your children close if you love them as all are in serious danger, now. Even you who know the dangers of vaccines cannot protect your own children & grandchildren, now, due to Assembly Bill 499 being recently signed.
Everyone knows when laws are passed in California they then come to our other states.
Our parental rights have been taken so beware.
They will be vaccinating our children behind our backs & leaving children as young as 12 to make their own decisions.
There are already parents & grandparents on the warpath as this link represents;
http://www.polkmoms.com/forum/topics/san-diego-grandmother-outraged-tha… are already
They are beginning with the HPV vaccine & I'm sure the flu vaccine is planned, also, as is already happening in certain areas.
Susan Blake, principal of Brimfield Middle School here in Ohio mandated flu vaccines & many parents were called to attention. I know because I have a friend whose child was one of those many victims. She tried to resist as she cried real tears & told them she had a waiver on file in the school office & that she already had asthma due to prior vaccines but they still gave her the dangerous & possibly deadly toxin anyway.
Now, about that HPV vaccine & the fact there will be no way to save the loved ones of even you who push vaccines knowingly;
Here are the latest, & months old, adverse events due to the HPV vaccine the evil & greedy Governor Jerry Brown just gave the green light to in California. We're afraid to see the current updates.
These statistics are shocking & unacceptable due to this being such a new drug on the market which was rushed & never had time to study.
Vaers link;
http://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/index.php
Disabled = 760 children
Deaths = 103
Did Not Recover = 4,616
Abnormal Pap Smear = 387
Cervical Dysplasia = 144
Cervical Cancer = 41
Life Threatening = 440
Emergency Room Visit = 8,926
Hopitalized = 23,388
Ext. Hospital Stay = 199
Adverse Events = 23,338
This drug is still in the experimental stage & it's estimated these reports to Vaers are actually, only, 10%. Some estimates state it's closer to 1% with all the doctors & parents not reporting & many slipping through the cracks.
Many don't even realize Acid Reflux, Acne, ALS, Alzheimer's, Arthritis, ASD, Asthma, Autism, Cancer, Cardiac Disease,
Celiac Disease, Central Auditory Processing Disorder,
Cerebral Palsy, Crohnâs, Depression, Diabetics, Early puberty, Eczema, Environmental Allergies, Eosinophilic Esophagitis, Epilepsy, Food Allergies, Guillain-Barre Syndrome, IDDM, Immune (or idiopathic) thrombocytopenia purpura, Infant Mortality, Lupus Erythematosus, Lyme, Mitochondrial Dysfunction, MS, childhood & adult, Obesity, Renal Disease,Rheumatism, Sensory Integration Disorder, Seizures, SBS, SIDS, Thyroid conditions, Tics, Tourette, Ulcerative Colitis, etcetera, are actually, many times, vaccine damage.
And we traded childhood disease for all that? Disease that gave true immunization which most children, always, recovered from. WOW! People paying attention know death from disease was on its decline before vaccines were even in the picture but yet we get you who deny, deny, deny for what ever reason.
So much toll has been taken & no one knows where these HPV vaccine experiments will lead in the lives of so many unfortunate guinea pigs & their, unsuspecting, parents later in life, up their roads.
They recently targeted our boys & there have already been 3 deaths as told in this article.
http://healthfreedoms.org/2011/09/19/3-girls-dead-others-hospitalized-a…
There you go. Loons are still trying to run our show but soon justice will prevail.
And Amen to that!
My promised warning is in moderation & I apologize to the good people who may be here for that delay. This is urgent so I hope the jokes stop now!
Love,
Grandma Marsha
Vaccines don't give immunsiation: Den såkalte svineinfluensaen forårsaket av blant annet vaksine. Swine flu and vaccine, a global crime. Information in english language http://www.navigate3d.no/mbbs22/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1540&start=1
No vaccines give immunisation, a lot of reseach confirm this fact
Anna Watson at 25 wrote:
She finally motivated me to run the numbers. Based on my estimations, the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (NVICP) has about 1.3 vaccine injuries per million doses of vaccines administered. And my assumptions are really generous -- the ratio is probably lower.
I also calculated the dollar award per dose of vaccine administered: $0.99.
In other words, NVICP is working the way it is supposed to.
Click on my name to view the post.
Otto Lund, then list the titles, journals and dates of the papers indexed on PubMed of that research. We are not going believe the youtube videos on your little forum.
Attention All shills and minions
IMMEDIATELY download an MP3 of The Silver Tongued Devil and I (Original Kris Kristofferson version only) and play it backwards for your emergency instructions.
In addition I have an idea that may help although it is a long shot. An extended period of Chinook weather has left Nose Hill Park in Calgary in an unseasonably flammable condition. Perhaps a reprise of the extensive grass fire in this "sacred place" that sent David Icke into his "purple period" will cause him to regress to that condition. This could sew confusion amongst our enemies and buy us time. Minions in the area can contact me on the Tinfoil Underpants channel. We will have black helicopter air support for this mission.
Wow Marsha, THAT'S your groundbreaking, earth-shattering news?
I honestly expected more. Good for a few laughs though.
Better check a mirror, looks like your tinfoil hat is slipping off.
Marsha, Marsha, Marsha, what part of the plural of anecdote (stories) are not data do you not understand?
So Marsha, support for your little tirade boils down to:
polk moms: page not found
NVIC and a rant on health freedom. org (September 19, 2011)?
You can't be serious?
AdamG
Marsha isn't tinfoil hat crazy, she is tinfoil underpants on the head crazy.
This thread is the first time I learned there were Rabies deniers. However, after reading RI for a few years, nothing in the alt med whackosphere should astonish me.
Oh look, here's another "explosive" *evidence based* update posted at Marsha's "We The People United For Vaccination Education" yahoo group.
[Oops! Google Chrome could not find www.side-effects-death.com]
You're full of it Grandma Marsha!
Oh and I forgot..
#523
Citations? (evidence based research papers only please)
*waits for an influx of chirping crickets*
I actually saw a black helicopter flying over Nose Hill Park yesterday. Should I be afraid?
Riiiight Marsha. Amazing how no one but you knows about this but since it falls under the auspice of complete and utter bullshit; I'm not surprised.
Susan Blake, principal of Brimfield Middle School here in Ohio
This is some seriously lazy shit. There is no "Brimfield Middle School." Susan Blake is principal of Field Middle School in Mogadore, Brimfield Township.
@ Me thinks Grandma has not recovered from her New Year's (1999-2000) libations.
Gee Grandma, here I was worrying for the past few days what extraordinary information you were going to bestow on us...such a disappointment.
Grandma...is this you on LinkedIn?
Marsha McClelland
Independent Political Organization Professional
Location
Cleveland/Akron, Ohio Area
Industry
Political Organization
Marsha McClelland's Overview
Connections
0 connections
How's the "Independent Political Organization Professional" business?
I heard that Grandma Marsha actually wears a tinfoil corset.
I know that was so hard to find right?
Oh, and Marsha, don't think it goes unnoted that you have been revealed to be part and parcel of the crypto-Zionist network.
This is true. It's been a while so I was mistaken. Humans are allowed them you know. It was Field Middle School in Mogadore, Brimfield Township.
As for this ancient find by Sauceress;
"Please keep an eye on my FB page for updates & explosive & revealing breaking news like this brave ex-pharmaceutical employee who reveals complicity with the pHARMs crimes against humanity. Be sure to see the video of his taped confession; www.side-effects-death.com/"
It's been even longer so I guess that link was killed.
That matter, Sauceress, is epic & I thank you for pointing it out.
Here's the current link;
http://www.medicinecult.com/
You guys just bury yourselves deeper & deeper don't you?
Bury ourselves in what, Marsha? I believe it is you who is shovelling the regurgitated bovine excrement. Why should we care about those websites trying to sell us books and other crud?
Again, when we ask for evidence it has to be real. One hint that a website is less than truthful is when it has a button that says "Buy now!" Now for the umpteenth time, just post the title, journal and title of the papers indexed on PubMed that support your statements.
Here's more on John Virapen where he confesses to the danger he helped place children in like some of you here do;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8ZFUq5hr7E
The poisoning of our children by air, food, water, bad drugs & injections has reached it's end.
Why should I care about his silly little youtube video?
You are making claims about vaccines, so you must show that it is not just a pulled out of thin air as it comes out of yours or Virapen's fevered brain. You must do that by posting the title, journal and date of the papers indexed on PubMed of the studies that support your claims.
If you are having difficulty understanding English, perhaps you can tell what language you do read.
Marsha, you're an accomplice of Tim White. Why do you expect to be taken seriously about anything?
You LOL left LOL out LOL the LOL manganese LOL. -LOL
Posted by: Narad | December 31, 2011 3:28 PM
-----------------------------------------
Well I know at least one here who knows the truth of what I am talking about. I never mentioned manganese---you did...
Why don't you tell them all about Manganese levels in stealth infections and in Autism kids hum?
Now don't leave out Alzheimers/MS/ALS/Parkinson's too...
And while your at it tell everyone what the calcium deposits are in breast and other cancers that comes from biofilms made of mostly calcium.
Well at least they outlawed lobotomy in psych disease which is a good thing since we know that 90% of all psych patients have infectious DNA attached to theirs.
http://www.polygenicpathways.co.uk/BLASTS.htm
But hey China's got a majik wand they wave over their GMO's to send it home packing with it tail tucked between the rudders, and soon will have one for stupid too...LOL But we just now got 140 million in funding so don't hold your breath...Please...
Don't you paid shills worry about testing and treating anymore though. We got ya covered.
When we get the NVICP repealed we won't have to worry anymore whether they fit in your box or Pandora's anymore...LOL
Ancient find? I got the link from your current facebook page...
Facebook:
Marsha, Marsha, Marsha, I am now going to tell you why your link to the NVIC Medalert page that helps you search VAERS is full of stupid. Sure, it is a helpful way to search through all of that data, but it is missing one major part: the disclaimer.
Let us look at the official portal to the database: http://vaers.hhs.gov/data/index ...
Please read that page closely, especially after the letters in bold that say: Please read the following statement on the limits of VAERS data. You MUST click on the box below to access the VAERS database.
Now, you are not supposed to access the data until you click the box that says, which is oddly missing from the page you linked to: I have read and understand the preceding statement.
Do you understand why? Well, let us look at those statements:
That means it is a self-selected survey. If you had taken even the basic statistics course, you would understand that this is lowest form of data. It is just like internet surveys or radio call-in polls, the ones that always have the disclaimer that they are not scientific. And they have actually received submissions of vaccines turning people into The Hulk and Wonder Woman by those testing the system, and those reports were accepted.
Now to the next paragraph, I put an important part in bold:
Well I know at least one here who knows the truth of what I am talking about. I never mentioned manganese---you did...
Here? No, that's why I thought it was worth getting out of the way. Dick Gregory did a much better job on the subject that you seem ever to have mustered, for that matter, LOLOLOLOLOLOL.
Bah..blockquote fail! I'm sure you guys can work it out :)
Marsha's "Vaers link;"... I have a comment in moderation, but here is the short version:
The plural of anecdote is not data. The reports to VAERS are essentially stories until verified.
@Silvermaven:
Wait, are you claiming that 90% of psychiatric disorders are caused by viruses? And that the surgeons performing the lobotomies were being infected by those viruses?
And from the link you provided:
Oooookaaaayyy....
Bah..blockquote fail! I'm sure you guys can work it out :)
Oh and Marsha? While you're still here, could you post those citations requested in post #534?
Again to Silvermaven: WTF?
Okayyyy..first of my last 2 comments DID go through.
I was getting an error when I hit post. This one is a test...
http://thirdreviewer.com/2010/neuroscience/science-neuroscience/generat…
Using recombinant murine PrP purified from Escherichia coli, we created a recombinant prion with the attributes of the pathogenic PrP isoform: aggregated, protease-resistant, and self-perpetuating.
--------------------
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2838481/
Amyloid fiber formation, once thought to be exclusively the result of off-pathway protein misfolding, is now appreciated as a frequently occurring and physiologically important protein fold.
The sophistication of E. coli genetics should allow the curli biogenesis system to serve as an excellent model system for understanding the complex macromolecular interactions that promote or antagonize amyloid fiber formation. Curli also represent an excellent system for studying protein secretion and macromolecular assembly in gram-negative bacteria. We are just beginning to elucidate the functions of the nonstructural curli proteins.
-------------------
Its a shame it is those that are syndromatic that had to figure this out for themselves and try their best to do something about it...Because they used genetically altered ecoli and mycoplasma in vaccine to protect people not kill them right?
Wait, are you claiming that 90% of psychiatric disorders are caused by viruses?
It's the prions.
Well I know at least one here who knows the truth of what I am talking about. I never mentioned manganese---you did...
Here? No, that's why I thought it was worth getting out of the way. Dick Gregory did a much better job on the subject that you seem ever to have mustered, for that matter, LOLOLOLOLOLOL.
Posted by: Narad | January 2, 2012 1:26 AM
--------------------------
I see you post no refutiation except slurs. Man ain't ya got no ammo left?
http://www.pnas.org/content/106/9/3449.abstract Our discovery of the first molecule involved in metal transport in Bb provides a foundation for further elucidating metal homeostasis in this important human pathogen, which may lead to new strategies for thwarting Lyme disease.
-------------------On the flip side
http://projectreporter.nih.gov/project_info_description.cfm?aid=8004968…
50 yrs. and it ain't done yet. and it never will be because they won't tell the truth.
http://projectreporter.nih.gov/project_info_description.cfm?aid=7949362… ROLE OF PRION PROTEIN IN MANGANESE NEUROTOXICITY
Dick only knows what his brain/looking down/tells him to think...Why don't you ask Luc who the force is standing behind? Since he now has a lab named in his honor in China as he works to find something to help the people before all the stupid jerks kill them by injecting more infectious antigens to recombine in prion proteins.
Silvermaven, so what? Your ravings have absolutely nothing to do with the subject under discussion.
You may have tried to tie them together by saying: "...Because they used genetically altered ecoli and mycoplasma in vaccine to protect people not kill them right?"
Um, which vaccine? And with that we have to say: citation needed. But make it coherent.
In fact, figure out a way to become coherent and on topic before posting another comment.
@Narad:
Wait, but prions don't have DNA.
@Silvermaven #555:
Are you saying that since genetically engineered bacteria can be used to make prions, and genetically engineered bacteria are used in the production of vaccines, that vaccines therefore contain prions?
Wait, but prions don't have DNA.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Silvermaven: You forgot the use of E-coli to produce insulin and Human Growth Factor...but then it is a complicated process...using rDNA biotechnology...that is beyond your capabilities.
Should we throw out the human insulin that was developed and go back to porcine insulin? Should we deny small stature children the HGF and rely on the small supply of HGF derived from cadaver pituitary glands...thus increasing the chance of infecting children with human prion diseases such as Creuzfeld-Jakob disease?
Maybe Silvermaven is confusing genetically modified E-Coli bacteria in insulin and HGF, with E-coli 0157:H7 and other STEC (Shiga Toxin Producing E-Coli) bacteria. These two infectious diseases are real serious shitty diseases to be infected with. They result in major organ failure and death.
556 Wait, are you claiming that 90% of psychiatric disorders are caused by viruses?
It's the prions.
Posted by: Narad | January 2, 2012 2:20 AM
==================
What part of their stupid should I start at first? The part where they tell us we will never have a vaccine for HIV/TB/Malaria...
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/756096
According to the researchers, the "cross-reactivity of Ad-specific T cell responses could potentially lead to reduced vaccine-induced immune responses in all populations with prevalent adenovirus infections of any serotype."
"These findings provide what we believe to be a new understanding of how preexisting viral immunity may impact the efficacy of vaccines under current evaluation for prevention of HIV, tuberculosis, and malaria," they add.
-----------------
90% of the pop.s are immune deficient---because we know 90% have Herpes and EBV's for which the NIH now says stem cells is the treatment....The research is in quite a quandry brought about by their own ignorance and greed....BEcause now in order to sell their junk they are going to have to fix us first....Because the vaccines won't work to prevent disease in our depressed immune systems...In fact it will be found that the junk antigens they are giving now are killing us...
http://www.euro-me.org/news-Q42011-003.htm
The proof of infections cannot be found in an immune system that is not making any antibodies to be seen on the tests we have been given...When Chemo works to kill the infections they get better...The real treatment is to kill all the infections and stem cells to turn the immune system back on.
Or the part where they tell you prions cause the most prevalent form of bone cancer but want you to stick with your Fibromyalgia and all the stupid syndromes as long as you can before you keel over?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22147650
PRNP and PRND are significantly over-expressed in osteosarcoma. PRNP and PRND appear involved with some important genes related to tumorigenesis and apoptosis. PRNP is linked to PTK2, RBBP9, and TGFB1 while PRND is linked to TNFSF10, BCL2A1, NFKB2, and TP53RK. Increased expression on Affymetrix arrays of prion proteins seems to be associated with the development of osteosarcoma. Prions seem to induce a negative regulation of apoptosis, thus promoting osteosarcoma development and progression. Osteosarcoma is a very aggressive tumor and even after modern chemotherapy and excision of tumors efforts are needed to improve clinical outcome. Since Prion proteins seem to be related to osteosarcoma development, their inhibition could represent a new approach to the molecular treatment of osteosarcoma.
--------------------------
I know you can google Manganese in stealth.
So now try the Calcium that is contained in biofilms that protect the stealth organisms...Of which the virus' must have to survive. Which is why we know we won't ever have a virus vaccine that works esp. now that the jig is up on Malaria money milkers...
For those that haven't heard yet---All the cases of Malaria also have stealth pathogens infections with those containing at least 3 prion like proteins found so far. It took molecular analysis to find them because some forms can be as small as the smallest virus' known to man and can morph into a granular cyst form in less than a minute.
They haven't told us how prion like proteins that are able to swap genes there are in Babesia and Bartonella so far, but by all accounts mixing it in ecoli was the greatest majik act anyone could have ever imagined.
https://www.google.com/search?q=borrelia+biofilm+made+of+mostly+calcium…
---------------
While your doing your research on the stealth pathogens you might want to see why Alzheimers brains are riddled with iron deposits----its because the stealth pathogens that they have found in 90% of all abdominal aneurysms and brains of those infected do not require iron to survive...
They have become cess pools for organisms that don't need it. Thanks Pig Pharma.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/06/000602073005.htm
560 Silvermaven: You forgot the use of E-coli to produce insulin and Human Growth Factor...but then it is a complicated process...using rDNA biotechnology...that is beyond your capabilities.
Should we throw out the human insulin that was developed and go back to porcine insulin? Should we deny small stature children the HGF and rely on the small supply of HGF derived from cadaver pituitary glands...thus increasing the chance of infecting children with human prion diseases such as Creuzfeld-Jakob disease?
Maybe Silvermaven is confusing genetically modified E-Coli bacteria in insulin and HGF, with E-coli 0157:H7 and other STEC (Shiga Toxin Producing E-Coli) bacteria. These two infectious diseases are real serious shitty diseases to be infected with. They result in major organ failure and death.
-------------------
Heck no...I tell people I care about to head to Panama/India/Sweden/China for your own stem cells.
Which is where most of the US doctors who know what they are doing are headed too.
You guys can lick your wounds and suck up to all those lies you want to...But for 5 grand to start they can be cured of all big pharma's help instead of being sick for the rest of their lives..LOL
@Silvermaven:
What do genetically engineered bacteria have to do with stem cells or stem cell therapy? And going back to a previous comment of yours, what do vaccines have to do with prions?
Have you seen all the youtube video's for all the Autism and other syndromatic they are cureing? Its awesome...
How much money can they save on Universal Healthcare/No Vaccines/No meds needed vs Daily injections/Taking care of All the Syndromes/Treating stealth infections?
Priceless.
Silvermaven, do you have a point that is even remotely related to the article at the top of this page?
Also, could you kindly do something more original than the dried old boring trope known as the Pharma Shill Gambit? Be interesting, be original! Actually use real evidence that is on topic!
Oh, and there is handy little box on the upper left of this page. Type in the word "stem cell" and see what articles pop up. Some you might find interesting are titled "Stem cell tourism: Stem cells as the new snake oil", "The price of anti-vaccine fanaticism" and "Stem cell quackery for autism, revisited."
Silvermaven:
Citation needed.
How do you save money by not giving vaccines? Is it really cheaper to treat measles than to prevent it and two other diseases with the MMR vaccine? This is something you must provide a title, journal and date of PubMed indexed studies to prove. If it helps, go up thread and read what I wrote December 28, 2011 at 11:59 PM. I posted a paper on measles that included these two bits:
As an occasional reader, I'd just like to say that RI has the craziest, stupidest trolls I've ever seen anywhere. Worse than anti-evolution trolls. Worse than climate denial trolls. Worse than IndyMedia trolls. Worse -- and I never thought I'd be saying this about anyone -- than Yahoo News trolls.
The average D-K casualty is to RI trolls as a kitten's sneeze is to a category 5 hurricane. You'll find it easier to put out Vesuvius with a squirt gun than to shoehorn the simplest, smallest fact into these people's heads.
Just sayin'.
Heck, just sticking to a single topic rather than answering with non-sequiturs would be an improvement.
Am I the only one who has difficulty in understanding Silvermaiden' skewed thinking processes and posts...more like word salad. And how about her segues into "other" topics?
She has been busted about E-coli and prions and now abruptly opens a line of gibberish about stem cells and the outflow of American doctors to foreign countries.
I've worked with hundreds of physicians...maybe even a thousand or more American doctors and don't recall any of them fleeing the USA for "greener" pastures in Europe or Asia. In fact, I see more and more doctors from foreign countries who do residencies in our hospitals, establish themselves in a professional practice and remain in the USA.
Perhaps Silvermaiden should seek a consult with a doctor...because whatever she is ingesting (supplements or prescribed medicine) is causing her mental disintegration.
I didn't say genetically engineered...I said genetically altered...Big difference Tonto...But they have proven both can generate and recombine stealth pathogens including prion proteins.
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/329/5987/52.full
Creation of a Bacterial Cell Controlled by a Chemically Synthesized Genome
These repudiators know what I am talking about but play dumb, so for all those that don't I will try to explain in simple to understand terms...Prion is not something that can be plucked out by filtering, but there is high hope by some---like the Prince of Saudi who is building the worlds largest dialysis facility in the world.
Prion is activated by a synergy of yeast in genetically altered organisms that enable them to fold into not only our genes but with even agrobacteriums genes. Which is the cause for Morgellons being found in all syndromes.
1996
http://newjournal.kcsnet.or.kr/main/j_search/j_abstract_view.htm?code=B…
Conventional analytical procedures (e.g., Edman degradation and amino acid analysis) are either not applicable due to the N-terminal modification, or do not provide confirmation of the intact structure.
Chromatographic analysis is also hindered by the tendency of these lipoidal Pam3Cys(ecoli for use in vaccines) peptides to form large aggregates, and in some cases to be permanently adsorbed on reversed phase columns.
Duh..they fold into the genes doc...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22145302
A model system for investigation of mechanisms of amyloidogenesis and of its infectious nature had been developed as a result of yeast prion discovery. The existence of a prion network as an interaction of different prions identified in yeast is being confirmed recently as an interaction of different anyloids in humans.
http://physrev.physiology.org/content/88/2/673.full
With the use of a yeast two-hybrid approach, followed by cell-binding experiments, it was shown that PrPC binds the 37-kDa laminin receptor precursor (LRP), and / or the 67-kDa laminin receptor (LR), both of which have been identified as receptors for distinct viruses.
Imagine that--able to leap tall buildings in a single bounce.
http://www.bioscienceworld.ca/MicroarrayExplorationoftheInfectionAutoim…
Rates of EBV infection are estimated to be nearly 100% in adult SLE and MS patients26, and over 98% in childhood MS patients27.
Productive EBV infections have been identified in brain lesions of MS and synovium of RA patients28. Several studies have related the development of antibodies against the EBV antigen EBNA-1 to the evolution of auto-antibodies against the nucleoproteins Sm and Ro in SLE26, 29, 30.
Proline-rich peptide sequences are involved in this molecular mimicry; the EBV peptide being PPPGRRP and the Sm B/Bâ peptide being PPPGMRPP. And, to tie this together, Sm antibody that recognizes this proline-rich sequence also cross-reacts with both the HIV p24 protein and collagen31.
Can you say---AIDS without HIV? LOL
The most abundant sequence matches were to c2-like Lactococcus phages, T1-like enterobacterium phages, Chlamydia phage 3, and Spiroplasma phage 4 (data not shown).
http://jvi.asm.org/content/84/14/6955.long
Lets throw some oral rabies retrovirus in there shall we--so says the USDA. LOL
Why not---we don't have that junk here. All we have to worry about is the ususal junk. I know nut-ting, nut-ting.
http://tinyurl.com/7dl6fa8
Bacterial Diversity in TX cattle ticks. That will Not now culture.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22147650
Prion proteins (PRNP and PRND) are over-expressed in osteosarcoma.
The most commone form of bone cancer...
Shhhhh..Don't tell them rascally rabbits why all those people sitting in their wheelchairs have low vitamin D...But their calcium is norm...and please don't tell them biofilm that the organisms make is made of mostly calcium.
Next they will be doping everyone up on Vitamin D to kill them a little faster.
http://jmm.sgmjournals.org/content/60/12/1717.abstract
Staphylococcus epidermidis biofilms with higher proportions of dormant bacteria induce a lower activ
I thought this was interesting model, since they gave us MRSA in the first place.
http://jb.asm.org/content/188/12/4331.full?view=long&pmid=16740939
Mutants of H. influenzae and Streptomyces coelicolor with deleted ebfC homologs are viable (1, 17, 47),
raising our hopes that ÎebfC mutants of B. burgdorferi can also be obtained and the effects of that lesion can be studied.
Our studies were the first to determine a function for an EbfC family member,
that of a site-specific DNA-binding protein, placing the spirochete B. burgdorferi in the unusual position of being the model organism for studying this widely dispersed but barely characterized protein.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22118664 2011 Nov 23
Lipids, a missing link in prion propagation.
"Here we demonstrate that in addition to inhibiting IFN responses, ICP0 also inhibits TLR2-driven inflammatory cytokine response following viral infection and does so by targeting the TLR2/NF-κB response pathway."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2950559/?tool=pubmed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21525381
Staphylococcus aureus biofilms prevent macrophage ... [J Immunol. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22132878
Translational Mini-Review Series on B cell subsets in disease. B cells in multiple sclerosis: drivers of disease pathogenesis and Trojan horse for Epstein-Barr virus entry to the central nervous system?
Exciting new data showed that B cell depletion led to reduced clinical and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) evidence of disease activity. However, the mechanisms of action remain unknown, but could involve autoantibody production, antigen presentation and/or cytokine production by B cells. Another exciting line of investigation in the field of MS comes from latent infection of memory B cells by Epstein-Barr virus (EBV).
These cells are hijacked as 'Trojan horses' and 'smuggle' the virus into the central nervous system (CNS).
Smuggled as hidden in other proteins? Surely not...LOL
So when you put it all together and bake it up in a jab...You get all the syndromes!!!
Now explain clearly how letting measles return, with that many getting encephalitis, with some dying and other becoming permanently disabled can save money?
Plus, would you prefer being thought of as really really stupid or just delusional?
Posted by: Chris | January 2, 2012 3:35 AM
===============
You need to get out more---Measles like Dengue never went anywhere. Its very much alive and inside of us. Maybe you missed the tick studies I posted here that didn't get in the thread showing at least 120 organisms in cattle that will not now culture...Its waiting for your stem cells to show you how well it hides...LOL Maybe you should take a little trip to some of the stem cell facilities to watch all the rashes break out when the armies of stem cells clear all the infections in hiding. Thats how they know what all needs treatment. Its awesome all the pretty rashes...Then you can come back here and tell the people the truth of what vaccines have done to their immune systems.
Ya Know---not a one of you can back up your backsided expertise with anything...You are a joke. How about your http://www.jimmunol.org/content/early/2011/11/28/jimmunol.1101927.abstr…
Haemophilus influenzae Uses the Surface Protein E To Acquire Human Plasminogen and To Evade Innate Immunity
So if the hokus pokus is evading the innate immunity how does that work out when in recombines and they also aquire their Herpes and EBV? LOL
http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pbio…
Microtubules in Bacteria: Ancient Tubulins Build a Five-Protofilament Homolog of the Eukaryotic Cytoskeleton
And you guys thought you knew it all...
Amazing how stupid arrogance can be.
Einstein told you--you would never know it all---but you were too stupid and greedy to listen...Now we have to all pay for your arrogance..and greed. Because you have done nothing to help the people to the truth for the last 35 yrs. when you could have stopped all the syndromes.
EvilDoug
Why be afraid - you know they are on our side. I had one watching over me when I went for my lunch hour pole walk last week.
Actually if it is circling continuously it is probably HAWKS looking for a suspect - the one I saw last week was.
you were too stupid and greedy to listen...Now we have to all pay for your arrogance..and greed.
Now the Ancient Tubulins will Build a Five-Protofilament Homolog of the Eukaryotic Cytoskeleton, and it will all be our fault!!
Oh Marsha, I think you made a bigger mistake than not know where this alleged human rights violation took place. To wit:
School principals cannot mandate vaccines nor forcibly vaccinate students. I am embarrassed to even have to spell that out but Marsha is quite special. And the whole "had asthma due to prior vaccines", well we'll just take that from whence it comes too.
Where on Earth did this Spittlemaven come from? Did someone leave a door unlocked somewhere?
Silvermaven,
You seem to have misinterpreted any research referring to microorganisms that evade the immune system, or that make biofilms, or that may induce autoimmunity, or that may be associated with prions to mean they have been cooked up in a lab. I don't see anything to support that in anything you have quoted or linked to. Of course there is research into all these areas, it would be strange if there wasn't. If they were really making bioweapons to put in vaccines to kill us all, would they make it all available on PubMed?
You have woven a lot of unconnected bits of information you don't actually understand into a paranoid fantasy (there's a lot of that about lately). You remind me of Leonard Horowitz, and that is not meant as a compliment.
I was just wondering regarding all these "BigPharma" conspiracies - Let us suppose that big pharma is "poisoning our children", maiming people, killing people and doing all that is being alleged, for profit.
Let us also assume that some how, they have managed to keep thousands of people - who are from various walks of life, across different continents - from blurting out the 'truthest truth'.
If the conspiracy theorists are to be believed, everyone seems to be getting maimed or killed by vaccines or every other drug, such that the situation has become worse than what the actual diseases themselves would have produced. In that case, how does "BigPharma" intend to sustain these profits?
I mean, the sort of mortality and morbidity that is implied by the scare mongering, should result in a less efficient economic productivity thereby resulting in lower affordability of drugs and eventually should eat into the profit margins of "BigPharma".
Also, if "BigPharma" wants to make profits out of dubious drugs, why would they not sell bottled water and sugar pills (homoeopathy) - cost of production is negligible, cost of R&D is non existent and profit margins are high. Also, virtually no side effects (nor effects) so no one to complain about 'toxins' and 'monkey pus'.
It will be interesting to see if the insane troll infestation abates when the holidays end and the nursing homes, group homes and mental hospitals return to full staffing with regular instead of casual staff. I think the fill in casuals are handling the difficult dementia etc. cases by turning them loose on the internet.
@Silvermaven:
Wouldn't genetically engineered be a subset of genetically altered? Unless you have some strange definition of "genetically altered".
1) The article you linked says nothing about prions.
2) Are you saying that genetically altering bacteria can lead to the spontaneous formation of new prions?
3) Even if #3 was true, the prions would only affect other bacteria, since prions work by cause already existing proteins to fold into the same shape as the prion, and non-bacteria wouldn't have any of the right starting proteins.
I honestly have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Though you assuming that we already know what you're talking about would explain a great deal about your commenting style.
Prions are abnormally folded proteins that cause chemically identical but normally folded proteins to fold the same way as the prions. And since prions are purely protein, they can't be "folded into" DNA. I have no idea what it is you're describing, but it's not prions.
Further, given that bacteria aren't yeast, genetically altered bacteria wouldn't have any yeast to synergize with.
Are you talking about the "attenuated viruses in vaccines stick around in your body forever" idea?
Wait, so when stem cells are injected into you body they somehow turn into white blood cells which get rid of chronic infections, even though your normal white blood cells couldn't?
@Teacher
Just noticed this comment and it gave me a chuckle. As others already pointed out, it would come as quite a surprise to the author of this blog (Orac) that he's not a doctor. As for myself, yep, I'm not a doctor, just like you aren't one either. So, what was it, again, that you were saying about being qualified to talk about vaccines? What are your qualifications, again? Are you saying that you are a poser? Just trying to clear things up.
Silvermaven:
You failed to answer the question about the cost of treating measles versus using the MMR vaccine. I don't need to get out more, you need to learn how to read and write in English.
I believe we have now been visited by someone even more delusional than Thingy and Blacky.
I just showed Silvermaven @573's post around to my entire genomics lab. We got a very good laugh out of it, I think we might print it up and post it around the department out of sheer hilarity.
As someone who works on the genomics of human disease I've encountered a lot of cranks and crazies, this one takes the cake though. Genomics-flavored word salad at it's finest. It's as if Silvermaven finds papers that have a keyword in common with her fever dreams and posts it as evidence.
Honest question, Silvermaven: How many of the above papers that you cited have you read all the way through and understood? Since you've cited the Venter paper, I'm sure you'd be happy to explain to all of us the simple mechanism behind the incorporation of the synthetic genome into the bacterial cell. Give it a shot!
From Militant Agnostic: Actually if it is circling continuously it is probably HAWKS looking for a suspect - the one I saw last week was. (sorry - don't know the fancy HTML stuff)
My husband was out walking the dog late one night, and HAWKS suddenly turned their giant spotlight on him. He thought he was being abducted by aliens.
Back to the topic of the original post, I didn't pay close enough attention on NYE, but I don't remember Jenny getting in a plug. Actually, in fairness, I thought she did a pretty good job as a hostess. She should stick with show business, and stay out of medicine.
Well boys and girls. I see you still can't post any link of real scientific evidence so until you can from your hard working lab studies I take my leave because I know the 5 countries that have the new super microscopes are soooo way ahead of you--you may not be able to catch up..
But hey we finally got the funding for them posted in the NIHreporter so don't worry.
Those that do have them are posting their research and were SHOCKED to see the infections transversing the neurons and amazed to see the hormones there as well.
So the cure for Autism may be just around the corner when you can figure out what everyone else is already using---stem cells and antibiotics.
Microtubules in Bacteria: Ancient Tubulins Build a Five-Protofilament Homolog of the Eukaryotic Cytoskeleton
And you guys thought you knew it all...
Amazing how stupid arrogance can be.
Einstein told you--you would never know it all---but you were too stupid and greedy to listen...Now we have to all pay for your arrogance..and greed.
It belatedly occurs to me that this minatory statement needs some ominous music playing in the background, a la Exorcist.
Tubulin Bells.
I see you still can't post any link of real scientific evidence
How's this? Enjoy the super-microscopes in Panama/India/Sweden/China/Freedonia.
Silvermaven
Your message would be much more effective, and reach a greater number of people, if you got yourself a sandwich board to wear around the streets.
Perhaps you could paint it with a message along the lines of..
"BEWARE!!! Frankenstein PRIONS are coming for you. The END is nigh!!"
For the smart guy who pointed out my link didn't work they could have noticed the link ran into another word & separated it. If one claims to be so smart concerning vaccines one would think that they could have figured that out. Here it is again so you can get there>>>
http://www.polkmoms.com/forum/topics/san-diego-grandmother-outraged-tha…
As for the ridiculous & old tactic of repeatedly asking for citations like for my post 534. For starters, we the many, are the citations because we have our many child victims attached with logic & common sense as the main evidence & there's plenty more for the research of those actually looking for the truth. We can't do that for you. It's something you have to be willing to do for the sake of all children instead of just parroting what is fed to you who have been fooled by those paid to dupe us. This site is a gathering place for the big boys & girls, the bad doctors & nurses who write bogus articles of deception, some of which will be held accountable when the waves settle.
There's a mountain of cites & sites, with fact & evidence, too many of them which can't be denied. I could overwhelm this board with endless citations, facts & evidence in my files but you'd pay no attention & would just clutter the thread with attacks of distraction as you always do.
That would be better, though, for me to bury you in fact than the way you people overwhelm this thread with the same worn out rhetoric & propaganda you hope will bury the truth. At the same time attacking charactor & being ridiculous, (And a big tell), instead of being civil & serious as in a real & fair debate.
Here's a tiny ice burg of that overwhelming evidence one can study by typing 'faked studies and paid doctors to put their names on them' to see the past track record, world wide, of those who make vaccines which some here work for.
Or see "science fraud and vaccines and truth" & it becomes easy to see the real truth when one takes both sides in so their own logic kicks in.
Yes, Sauceress, ancient find because it was placed there when the group was created. That group is defunct because I realized my moderator allowed people such as yourself in by accident instead of waiting for me to do the background checks. People still post there but I rarely do now a days. So after all that time, like with many links, they become inactive.
The original link to John's site was not the same as I found that targeted his book & sent you. The original had free information & that same video I posted for you in it. John is selling his book now as he has to make a living as everyone does. Do you think big pHARMa would hire him back? He blew the whistle, even placing himself in danger for his own grandchildren which was noble. I wish he had thought of all of our children sooner but sometimes it takes one's own for them to see the light.
And making light of our parental rights being taken away as they vaccinate our children behind our backs with known deadly vaccines was astonishing & shows the mental capacity of those who would say such a thing. But then that's the way that herd mentality works. The brainwashing goes deep & is harder for some than others to break out of.
Science Mom. If you have to disprove the facts of what I told you about all those children having flu vaccine forced upon them then why don't you people track down that school's number & tell that principal some nut in on the internet is slandering her?
She was head of the school & therefore did mandate it because she went along the the program when she could have taken a logical & humane stand instead. She is the responsible party. It may not have been a greed thing on her part but it goes to show how dangerous that herd mentality is for the thinking people paying attention to see. Ask her how many parents contacted her directly afterwards & if the storm's over yet, while you're at it.
The end can never be nigh for the immortal fungus that resulted when Monsanto challenged G-d!!!
But anyway, Silvermaven appears to exist mainly in some "chronic Lyme"-Morgellons intersection (hence the Texas ticks), to the extent that treating the former somehow fixes the latter, despite the immortal fungus or something. I mention this only because I had never heard of Geeta Shroff and her Indian stem-cell clinic before, which Silvermaven has pimped in at least one place.
@Krebiozen @480
More info on aluminum-
http://ctdbase.org/detail.go?view=disease&type=chem&acc=D000535
@Narad's link
I wonder which version of corn it is that Silvermaven believes "God gave us"?
Reminds me of the antivaxxers who contend that vaccines interfere with their God's plan. Yet I thought God thought was supposed to be omnipresent and omnipotent?
Bacterial Diversity in TX cattle ticks. That will Not now culture.
While I'm at it, the underlying assertion here "is" this:
(Emphasis added.) It's thoroughly unclear to me what the equivalence/transitivity relation is supposed to be here, but if one looks at the citation provided by Silvermaven above, the takeaway point would seem to be that R. microplus has been eradicated in the U.S. The Rio Grande quarantine zone appears to be working.
Hence, ALS must actually be cattle fever.
I also failed to note any inventory of how many of the 121 genera identified actually fall into "not amenable to culture" category, which is the spooky frosting that we started with. But whatever--it's stealth.
"I could overwhelm this board with endless citations, facts & evidence in my files but you'd pay no attention & would just clutter the thread with attacks of distraction as you always do"
Orac has allowed to post hundreds or thousands of words here, and you can't be bothered to post the really good information you claim to be holding back from us?
Silvermaven is as smart as a sackful of Thingys.
The idiot makes no sense at all. Surely this one is a prime candidate to put on the 'ignore' list ?
they vaccinate our children behind our backs with known deadly vaccines
Could you please post the statistics on the death rate from these "known deadly vaccines" vs. the known deadly diseases they protect people against? Preferably from a reputable source rather than some crazy-quilt 1991-style website with blinking headlines and all the important words capitalized, bolded, italicized and underlined in red? Pretty please?
That group is defunct because I realized my moderator allowed people such as yourself in by accident instead of waiting for me to do the background checks.
Hey, who am I?
Read the vaccine inserts...they contain poisonous stuff! Infants do not just get one shot and wait five years for another. They are given more than two somethimes five plus at one time. and receive more month or two later. There has not been one study done on multi injections and cumulative impact! Parents need to make an inform choice. IF you don't you get what you get!!!!
Bugger! There goes another top of the range irony meter.
You should re-read over your own posts Grandma Marsha. Start with the ones where you rode in to this blog, popgun held aloft and shouting "bang bang bang..."
The ridiculous will always be ridiculed here. Now if per chance you were able to be "civil & serious as in a real & fair debate" and bring some supporting science based & verifiable evidence to the table...
Translation: We don't need no dang science based evidence.
faith:
Really??? Poisonous stuff? Given multiple doses at a time?
And not one study?
I have been reading and commenting in this blog for years and I have never heard of this before. Thank you SO much for enlightening us!
If it wasn't obvious, the above was sarcasm. Please, faith, read a little bit of this blog before commenting.
Joshsmom,
Thanks for the link. I don't really understand what significance you think it has. Care to clarify?
Marsha #523
I had a look at VAERS and deaths after HPV vaccines. I found 7 reported deaths after HPV vaccination in 2011. These were:
1. A 17 year old girl who died of acute strep septicemia with onset 29 days after vaccination.
2. Age and sex unknown who died of acute pancreatitis/"abdominal pain" with onset 47 days after vaccination.
3. An 18 year old girl with a long history of depression who quit medication when she turned 18 and committed suicide 2 days after vaccination.
4. A 14 year old girl with sudden cardiac death 14 days after vaccination.
5. An 18 year old girl who died of an intracranial hemorrhage secondary to immune thrombocytopenic purpura - with onset 84 days after vaccination.
6. An 18 year old male who committed suicide 5 days after vaccination.
7. A 15 year old male with seizure disorder with reported anaphylactic reaction and edema who died 3 days after vaccination.
The only one of these that seem to me to have any likely or even possible connection with the vaccine is the last one, and even then there are too few details to understand what happened. Anaphylaxis due to a vaccine usually happens within hours, and is easily treated with epinephrine. It is unusual for someone to die 3 days after an anaphylactic reaction, and strange that he didn't visit a doctor or ER in the 3 days between vaccination and death. It would be interesting to see more details of this case.
These are all tragic cases, but unfortunately sometimes young people die, and given the millions of people given the HPV vaccines sometimes those deaths will occur after vaccination by complete coincidence. The important question is whether they are more likely to die after HPV vaccination than if they don't have the HPV. The answer, from the many clinical trials that have been done, is that they are not. We also know that HPV vaccines are very effective at preventing HPV and precancerous lesions. There is every reason to believe they will also prevent cancer, reducing deaths in the long-term.
Really, there is nothing here to suggest that HPV vaccines are killing people as Marsha suggests.
Ah Freedonia...from the classic Marx Brothers "Duck Soup" movie. There really is a *"Fredonia" in New York State and the town fathers were somewhat upset about the fictional country of "Freedonia":
"....The film also led to a feud between the Marxes and the village of Fredonia, New York. Freedonia, of course, was the name of the fictional country in Duck Soup, and the city fathers wrote to Paramount and asked the studio to remove all references in the film to Freedonia because "it is hurting our town's image". Groucho fired back a sarcastic reply asking them to change the name of their town because "it's hurting our picture". (Wikipedia)
*I have friends who graduated from SUNY Fredonia.
faith, News Flash! Everything is potentially toxic. The major factor is the dose at which it's given. Different doses have different effects. For example, too much cyanide can indeed kill someone, but if there was no safe level of exposure, eating almonds or peaches would be a death sentence. Water is considered "non-toxic" only because it takes very high ingested doses to cause problems like hyponatremia.
If the dose didn't matter, life in general would have died out long, long ago. Toxicology and pharmacology work on a spectrum, not black-and-white absolutism. The human body is more complex and more robust than the glass toggle switch alties make it out to be. If I'm wrong, how am I still alive?
If I could drill just one idea into the heads of alties, it would be the importance of dosage. This is supposed to be common knowledge. If someone rambles about "toxins" without giving and emphasizing information about the dose-response curve, they're either lying to you or unthinkingly parroting someone who lied to them.
@Silvermaven:
That's because we have no clue what you're talking about. State what you mean clearly (and coherently) and explain how the studies you cite relate to your point. When we understand what your point is then we can counter with scientific evidence.
It would also greatly help if you learned what prions actually are. Your current (mis)-understanding of prions is so muddled that talking with you about them would be pointless.
@Marsha McClelland:
Placing himself in danger? I wasn't aware that Big Pharma was in the habit of giving people concrete shoes and sending them to sleep with the fishes.
How do you know that children are being vaccinated behind the backs of their parents?
1) The have antibody titers for diseases they've never caught.
2) They suffer from vaccine damage even though they've never officially been given vaccines.
3) Something else.
Translation: I don't have anything that you won't laugh at. Alternatively, I know the twoof! I don't have to show you citations. Good grief I hope your children have proper restraining orders.
Oh poor Grandma Marsha; there are no facts to disprove because you're full of shit. No principal or "head of the school" can mandate vaccines, not even as an emergency measure. And they sure as shit can't forcibly vaccinate anyone. You made the extraordinary claim, it is incumbent upon you to provide the evidence, not mine to disprove it. Although I can even do that given your claim is falsifiable out of the gate.
LOL. Spin on foolish ones. I can't play with you in the back & forth game where you ask for stats & evidence you have seen many times. I would stay & play but can't. Maybe I'll see you at your next bogus article of deception if someone calls it to my attention as they did this one. I don't pay much attention to this den of vipers & their parrots, normally, unless someone sends me your fraud called science spin. Spin that's been proven for all paying attention. I do worry about people here buying the bull but it's pretty clear there are no people here with open minds. If there were, I'm sure they would have spoke up by now. Toodles for now to you who are duped & those that work to dupe you. As I began with coming here to thank you for, unwittingly, helping raise awareness, again, thank you. We couldn't have awakened the masses as we have without you.
Love,
Grandma Marsha
PS Watch your children close because our parental rights really have been taken & all children are in danger now.
I can't play with you in the back & forth game where you ask for stats & evidence you have seen many times. I would stay & play but can't.
Promises, promises.
Grandma Marsha never knows when to get off the stage...in spite of the hissing, booing and loud derisive catcalls.
I think Marsha will be too busy to come posting again...after all she is an "independent political organizer" and the Republicans are fighting over which lucky candidate will snare her for the Ohio primary. Her heart belongs to Ron Paul.
Obviously. LOL
#609 Krebiozen
Thanks for your effort and posting those facts Krebiozen. I'll keep a link to your post.
@Marsha McClelland:
Translation: I have no hard evidence to support my claims and am getting annoyed with your demands for hard evidence, so I'll take my toys and go play somewhere else.
Goodbye Marsha, and don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out.
@ Sauceress: Our "friends" at the SaneVax and NVIC websites also have links to reports of untoward reactions/deaths from vaccines.
At the NVIC website on the top header "Vaccine Reactions" see some information about the latest VAERS reports.
At SaneVax I found a link to Judicial Watch.org which is a virulent right-wing "legal" site. Just scroll through that site to see 26 new deaths reported on HPV vaccine...they have a particular fixation on this one vaccine...probably because it is the newest and it may violate "parental rights" to control their children's sexual activity, etc.
600 plus comments and going strong - eat your heart out PZ Meyers. Plus, Orac has much loonier trolls.
Interesting how Marsha has time to type up multi-screen long rants, but no time to actually include any evidence, only assertions that the evidence is there for all to see. In addition it is interesting how the side with "The Truth" feels it must censor all dissent while the "forces of evil" allow free discussion.
With regard to the topic of this post, does anyone know if Jenny McKnownothing was able to propagandize on the New Year special?
(Longtime lurker delurking)
This thread has been brilliant. It gave me huge entertainment over the dark and foggy New Year period while my son (fully vaccinated and then some, totally healthy, no allergies) played with his new toys.
Comic highlights:
1. Shirley's Wellness Cafe as a medical source.
2. Teacher of the Year Walmart Apron
3. Teacher's inability to see anything wrong with inconsistent belladonna dosage and lack of a childproof cap.
4. Grandma Marsha. She is just too precious and has to be a parody. I vote for Betty White to play her in the movie.
5. A cameo from our very own UK anti-vaccine bore Anna Watson who demanded compassion from us but not for the immuno-compromised children who are most at risk from low vaccination rates - and who lacked the courage to return and defend her unsupported assertions.
Silvermaven and Thingy are too boring and frothingly insane to provide much in the way of entertainment but otherwise it was a highlight of Christmas.
I admire the stamina of all the regulars who attempt to engage these trolls and tinfoil hat models in a meaningful discussion.
@marsha
Thanks for the laughs at your stupidity. Your idiocy was entertaining.
Sauceress,
You're welcome - rooting about in the VAERS data was quite interesting. All sorts of odd things get reported, acute appendicitis the day after vaccination, a sickle cell crisis immediately after vaccination and a child who developed type 1 diabetes the day after vaccination. Clearly none of these could possibly have been caused by the vaccine.
If HPV vaccines were causing a problem you would expect to see a pattern, an unusual number of cases of a specific disorder. In safety studies there were more blood clots seen than expected, but that doesn't seem to be reflected in the VAERS data. Searching for DVT, embolic stroke, DIC, embolism or pulmonary embolism finds only one case in each of 2010 and 2011.
One problem that is worth noting is fainting (syncope) after vaccination. There have been a few cases of people fainting after being vaccinated and hitting their heads, in one case causing serious head injuries. It's worth bearing this in mind when anyone gets vaccinated, just in case, and keeping an eye on them for a few hours afterwards.
I have also been playing with some ballpark numbers. There were nearly 4 million live births in the US every year 14-25 years ago. It has been reported that 25% of young people get at least one HPV shot which makes 1 million each year (it's probably more than that in practice). The death rate in this group is about 70 per 100,000 per year. So you would expect at least 700 young people given the vaccine each year to die of any cause just by coincidence. A few of these would occur within a few days of vaccination by pure coincidence, and this is exactly what we see in VAERS.
I've only been away from this for a few short hours.
Strewth!
Oh my giddy aunt!
You must be kidding me.
What the ...?!
Did I miss any of them? This is unbelievable.
@MissGrace
It's like a belated Hanukkah miracle, if you ask me - "And lo, for though the post contained material enough for only a hundred comments of wank, nonetheless the thread continued wanking, day and night, until the material that should have only lasted one hundred comments had provided for six hundred. And there was much weeping, and rending of the garments, and a jolly good time was had by all."
Why it is bad to space out vaccines.....
This was not fully addressed by other commenters, so I have to add. People have already pointed out that due to the inconvenience issue, spaced-out schedules are more likely to miss doses, and that spacing them out increases the time when a child is vulnerable. But there's another problem, and one which I think is more serious.
In most cases, spacing them out makes them less effective. A particular shot isn't timed for once every year for fun and giggles. Heck, if convenience and time spent unprotected were the only factor, all shots would have the same duration between elements of the series, and they'd all be fairly short durations, so it all gets over and done with. But that ain't the case, so obviously there's something else informing the vaccine schedule. And that's how children's' immune systems respond to the vaccines.
Vaccines are not a one-size-fits-all thing. Different ones act differently; some are live viruses, some are live bacteria, some are genetically modified things that express a viral protein, some require adjuvants to get enough effect, etc. So it shouldn't really be surprising that the immune system responds to them at different rates. Now, I'm not an immunologist. I have as much formal medical training as your average PhD in education (that is to say, I graduated college and I've had CPR training). But I have done some reading on the subject, including reading studies. The timing is definitely important, not only for epidemiology and convenience and getting the kids protected in time, but also simply for getting the damn thing to *work*. If you space it out too much, you're taking all the same risks as anyone else getting the vaccine but throwing away many of the benefits. So if you're *really* worried about side effects, think very very carefully about what Dr Sears is promoting. Does he *really* have your child's best interests at heart, given that his schedule seems geared mostly around meeting school requirements with minimum vaccination, rather than getting the most benefit for the least risk?
If you spread out the shots, you are accepting the same risks as everyone else for *less* benefit. So if you're worried about side effects, this is completely the wrong path to take.
It's useful to remember the population that was targeted for HPV vaccination: teenage girls.
Syncope shows two distinct spikes: in the elderly, and in teenagers--especially female teenagers. Based on my experience (particularly as the parent of a teenage girl who blithely ignored vaccinations/blood draws/catheterization as a child but now hyperventilates at the thought of vaccination), a blood draw would do it, too, I expect: I vividly remember that a very large, young male medical student collapsed in my class when his blood was drawn for a laboratory exercise, although no HPV proteins were introduced in the process. Unfortunately, I couldn't catch him . . . .
"Groundbreaking Article on HPV Vaccines in Annals of Medicine/ Made Headline News in Belgium/Human virus (HPV) Vaccine Policy and Evidence-based Medicine at Odds"
http://www.scribd.com/doc/76789590/Human-virus-HPV-Vaccine-Policy-and-E…
Some pretty heavy stuff here that can't be denied this time. Those here trying to deny how dangerous this toxin is & even the deaths can now see how wrong they are.
Apologies for the sarcasm I resorted to here to anyone who honestly believes in vaccines. I just get so angry at these who know the truth & set out to dupe you so I can't help myself.
Again, watch your children because they will be given shots behind your backs now that parental rights have been taken. away.
Thanks for reminding me, Marsha. I was going to blog that article over the holiday, but somehow it slipped my mind. You've reminded me. I note that the same authors who wrote the above execrable bit of nonsense also wrote an execrable bit of nonsense that I deconstructed a month ago:
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/12/and_global_warming_is_caused_…
How time flies.
I'm not playing, fool, I'm serious! As if you don't know. Always spinning & acting juvenile. Addressing you who are insincere is the very game I am not willing to play. Your trying to distract from the truth with getting me into the back & forth will not work out for you but that does not mean I will not have my say. That's what I hate about you people. You're either duped or working to dupe & you're mean spirited, too. Sad for you & any children you might have. You all should be ashamed of yourselves. Especially you who are in it for vested reason. The good news is the good hearted among the ignorant you have fooled will be waking up as the rest of the masses are & there not one thing you bad guys can do about that.
And to Orac. Of course you were. That's your job. You'll soon need a different one so I'd start looking now if I were you.
Marsha, you might try reading that article again with the understanding that "related" does not mean the same as "happened to occur after." I understand that you may be confused by that distinction, since apparently the authors missed that, too.
@ Marsha: "Your trying to distract from the truth with getting me into the back & forth will not work out for you but that does not mean I will not have my say."
We're depending on that, Marsha.
I would imagine that before Orac is pounding the pavements, Grandma Marsha the "independent political organizer" from Ohio, will be out of work.
How's that "organizing" thing working out for you, Grandma?
@Marsha:
I think, you are mistaken. You see, asking you for citations is not a back and forth game.
If I come here and post a claim that you, Marsha McClelland, was responsible for the murder of your neighbour, would you simply accept what I'm saying as true, or would you rather that I give proof of the extra-ordinary claim that I have made?
If you point out that your neighbour is very much alive yet I repeatedly insist that he is dead, should I consider it to be a game of back and forth if you asked me to bring reliable information as proof of my claims?
Would you accept the testimony of some life-long resident of, let's say, Myanmar who identifies some deceased person as your neighbour (especially if he has never been outside his province)?
Should I be indignant and say that your denial of the "evidence" presented by me in the form of a testimony (as described above) is a part of a larger conspiracy?
You are being exactly this ridiculous.
Just because many parents observe the deterioration of health of their children a variable time after vaccination does not necessarily mean that the vaccines caused it.
It may appear to be a common sense issue to you, but even common sense requires some basic, reliable knowledge before it is an effective means to drawing conclusions.
To illustrate: it is common sense for us, as adults, to be careful with glowing coals. To an infant, it's just a mysterious shiny object which "common sense" dictates, should be grabbed and popped into the mouth.
Would you still say that your "common sense" or the opinion of "you (we) the people" without knowledge of concerned fields of biology, medicine and epidemiology, are enough to confirm that what you propose is the truth?
Especially since people have devoted their lives, full time, to understand this rather complex field. Those people have also conducted research and studied this issue thoroughly. Thus making their conclusions far more reliable than you (and "your people's") "common sense".
The Citations that you are asked for are the publications of the research done by these people. Also, the condition being that the research has to have been done without glaring holes in the method and design.
We would rather have their opinions to back your claims than your "common sense".
@Marsha:
A Scribd article?!?! That's Evidence?!?! LOL! Marsha, Scribd is a self-publishing website, not a peer-reviewed source. Also, I'd like to know the Impact Factor of the Annals of Medicine, please.
Jake Crosby tried to get Orac fired. He failed. And Marsha, making threats is really bad form.
@Julian Frost:
I think she's saying that Orac is a pharma-shill, and that all pharma-shills will be out of a job once the Truth is out.
After all, that's exactly the form of evidence that got countless people put to death in the Middle Ages as witches: someone gave them a nasty look; something unfortunate happened to them thereafter; obviously the nasty look was the cause of the misfortune.
I'd hate to think Grandma Marsha endorses the burning of people for witchcraft, but if she's willing to condemn vaccines on the very same level of evidence...
Addressing you who are insincere is the very game I am not willing to play.
I take it you're playing with yourself, then.
(Eh, I didn't want breakfast anyway.)
You people have become weak in your spin & new people looking in can see right through you as they can see my posts for what they are & all you attacking me instead of being civil like decent people. That's the biggest 'tell' of all.
I've been really busy so I don't remember if I apologized for my snarky remarks directed at the real criminals so I am now to any innocent people here who buy into all the vaccine fraud due to so much rhetoric & propaganda.
Please wake up people.
Merck is found to be paying experts to recommend Gardasil anagram for "A sad Girl" & giving whole new meaning to Merck's slogan "One Less" Just ask any of the Mother's of the dead girls & now 3 boys since they recently targeted them as evidence shows. Do not beLIEve when the bad guys say the deaths are not so. Look into the matter yourselves.
http://vactruth.com/2010/06/28/merck-paying-experts-gardasil/
Prominent Scientist Warns of HPV Vaccine Dangers in 2008
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/10/25/prominent…
Still think it's a joke that they took our parental rights recently with the greedy & evil Governor Jerry Brown in California signing Assembly Bill 499?
And don't bother to try & discredit Dr. Mercola either. That's gotten old & thinking people paying attention can see the truth by now for themselves.
Oh & pretending you haven't seen all the evidence by acting like & spinning that I don't use credible citations & dodge when you ask for them won't work, either. That's gotten real old, too, as anyone paying attention knows. And that's just one of many tactics used here to try & fool people.
Hey! What does this tell you?
A 6 week old baby was given the HPV vaccine. Two years later is battling leukemia. Is there a connection? You can bet on it!
http://www.3news.co.nz/Default.aspx?
What a shame>>>
âClinical trials of HPV vaccine conducted on tribal girls'
http://www.hindu.com/2011/06/29/stories/2011062958991600.htm
I was given a polio shot in grade school. Nearly 50 years later, I sprained an ankle. Is there a connection? You can bet on it!
What does your comment tell us? It tells us you pretty much meet the definition of a loony. And we don't need to know much else.
Michelle Malkin of Fox News who plays the spin game, too, at least, is honest about this matter. She tried to warn us but the criminals pulled it off for now anyway with the signing of AB499.
"The California legislature is quietly pushing forward with a sweeping proposal to mandate that Gardasil â the vaccine marketed as a shield against the sexually transmitted human papillomavirus (HPV) â can be dispensed by the state to children as young as 12 without the permission of their parents.
I confirmed by phone on Friday with the staff of the billâs sponsor, California Democratic Assemblywoman Toni Atkins, that the legislation had been voted out of the state Senate Appropriations Committee by 6-3. There were no witnesses or testimony at the hearing. The bill, AB 499, had previously been suspended over cost concerns. Now, it is expected to head quickly to the Senate floor for a full vote this week and supporters believe Democratic California Gov. Jerry Brown will sign it.
A previous push to require all California girls entering sixth grade to be vaccinated with the HPV Vaccine was withdrawn from the state legislature in 2007. The current bill would circumvent the stateâs parental consent laws and âallow a minor who is 12 years of age or older to consent to medical care related to the prevention of a sexually transmitted disease.â The bill states: âThe minorâs parents or guardian are not liable for payment for medical care provided pursuant to this section.â So, who is?"
You'll have to have a Face Book account to read the rest.
https://www.facebook.com/notes/michelle-malkin/californias-gardasil-man…
Yes Marsha, us demanding actual scientific evidence to justify your wild claims, completely unreasonable.....
@ Marsha: So...what would be your suggestion to get expert advice about vaccines?
In order to avoid any perceived/paranoid conflict of interest about adding a vaccine to the recommended childhood vaccine schedule, should government agencies seek the advice of a car mechanic, a plumber or an "independent political organizer"?
I know one "independent political organizer" who probably is a high school dropout and totally involved in spreading lies and false information about vaccines.
Paul Offit must be licking his chops.
Always remember what he said,
"Yes Marsha, us demanding actual scientific evidence to justify your wild claims, completely unreasonable....."
But Lawrence you have seen many facts, cites, sites & evidence as the criminals have here many times at lots of their bogus articles of deception, if you really are paying attention.
Repeating the same lies does not work as it used to. Thank the good that God is for the children's sakes.
See a bit of the overwhelming evidence, AGAIN!
The cover up is at its end. The fraud, called science, behind vaccines has been exposed & denial won't work, now.
Itâs time to face reality & stop denying whatâs right in front of our noses. Time to admit error, confront greed & right the wrong.
âUK âFakedâ National Autism Data To Declare MMR Vaccine âSafeâ
http://chiÂldhealthsaÂfety.wordpÂress.com/2Â010/02/10/ÂuksurveyauÂtisml…
âUK General Medical Council Told Docs âCommit Fraud for MMR Vaccine Bonusesâ
http://chiÂldhealthsaÂfety.wordpÂress.com/2Â010/02/13/Âgmc-fraud-Âfor-b…
âThalidomiÂdeâ doctor alleges plot to gag himâ
http://wwwÂ.independeÂnt.co.uk/nÂews/world/ÂthalidomidÂe-doctor-aÂllege…
âPfizer to pay $142M for drug fraudâ
http://wwwÂ.cbc.ca/heÂalth/storyÂ/2010/03/2Â5/gabapentÂin-ubc.htmÂl
âFeds found Pfizer too big to nailâ
So guess who takes the rap?
http://wwwÂ.cnn.com/2Â010/HEALTHÂ/04/02/pfiÂzer.bextraÂ/index.htmÂl?hpt…
âPeer review trickeryâ
http://wwwÂ.the-scienÂtist.com/bÂlog/displaÂy/57130/
âScience is Brokenâ âPeer Review is Censorship and IntimidatiÂonâ
http://novÂ47.com/prvÂ.html
It's the real science. Not the fraud we've been sold.
"No longer possible to believe most clinical research published"
http://ethÂicalnag.orÂg/2009/11/Â09/nejm-edÂitor/
A new breed of doctors coming up will save us all>>>
"Harvard Medical Students Rebel Against Big Pharma Ties"
http://wwwÂ.medkb.comÂ/Uwe/ForumÂ.aspx/alteÂrnative/37Â359/HarvarÂd-Med…
"Med Schools Pressed To Cut Drug-Firm Ties"
http://wwwÂ.npr.org/tÂemplates/sÂtory/storyÂ.php?storyÂId=1020157Â19
"Harvard Medical School Restricts Faculty Ties to Industry"
http://wwwÂ.thecrimsoÂn.com/artiÂcle/2010/7Â/21/policyÂ-medical-sÂchool…
âCorrupted Research â Exposing the Peer Review Processâ
http://eziÂnearticlesÂ.com/?CorrÂupted-ReseÂarchâExposing-Âthe-Peer-RÂeview-ProcÂess&id=808Â798â
âThe Peer Review âFig Leafâ
âWhile chief of the US National Institute of Mental Health stopped short of saying scientists are corrupt because of their ties to industryâ
http://wwwÂ.scoop.co.Ânz/storiesÂ/HL1004/S0Â0011.htm
âAbuse, Misuse of Peer Review Process Allow Spread of Scientific MisinformaÂtionâ âDavid Noble: Peer Review, Where Are The Scholars?â
http://wwwÂ.heartlandÂ.org/policÂybot/resulÂts/22938/AÂbuse_MisusÂe_of_…
âScience News/Peer review: No improvemenÂt with practiceâ
http://wwwÂ.scienceneÂws.org/vieÂw/generic/Âid/47477/tÂitle/Peer_Ârevie…
âThe end of the Peer Show â scientistsÂâ misguided attempt to solve a non-existeÂnt problemâ
http://wwwÂ.mantlepluÂmes.org/PeÂerReview.hÂtml
âConflicts of Interest at Medical Journals: The Influence of Industry-SÂupported Randomised Trials on Journal Impact Factors and Revenue â Cohort Studyâ
http://wwwÂ.plosmedicÂine.org/arÂticle/info%3Adoi%2F1Â0.1371%2FjÂournal…
Dr. Scott Reuben, researcherÂ, admitted in court to faking dozens of studies for Pfizer, Merck;
âItâs become common practice for drug companies to support fraudulent studies & they openly supported Dr. Reubenâs research & in fact, paid him to keep on fabricatinÂg them.â
âGlaxoSmitÂhKline deliberateÂly hid evidence of Avandia harm, says Senate reportâ
(This investigatÂive report also reveals that GSK engaged in the intimidatiÂon of physiciansÂ)
http://tinÂyurl.com/yÂbxdyrwâ
âMedical Journal Complicit in Corruption of Medicine_PÂLoSâ
http://wwwÂ.theonecliÂckgroup.coÂ.uk/news.pÂhp?start=4Â160&end=41Â80&view=yeÂs&id=5534#Ânewspost
âPlacebo fraud rocks the very foundation of modern medical science; thousands of clinical trials invalidateÂdâ
http://wwwÂ.naturalneÂws.com/z03Â0209_placeÂbo_medicalÂ_fraud.htmÂl
Look up, Faked studies and paid doctors to put their names on them & Science fraud, for more overwhelmiÂng evidence that can't be denied & that's just what we caught them red handed at so this is all just the tip of the iceberg.
Getting the big picture? This is monstrous!
Article of opinion but not warped opinion like goes on here>>>
http://tinÂyurl.com/yÂcbnhra
Case closed!
Please do not feed delusional, ignorant etc., etc....it needs "terminal disinfection".
I have one comment, A BIG & UNDENIABLE ONE, in moderation & just one more after that for now, after that appears. Then I will review the spin & lies truth has attracted.
"How safe is the HPV vaccine? New data available"
http://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2011/06/17/how-safe-is-the-hpv-vaccine…
Where's my big post that exposed the fraud called science behind vaccines? It was held in moderation as was the last one I made was held but released. That huge one was there first so why is it still being held?
I want to read the spin so please release it so I can do so & make one more post before I get to the BS.
Grandma Marsha,
tell me this: how can you complain about a state law which will (emphasis mine)
and claim to care about children?
@ Marsha: "How safe is the HPV vaccine? New data available"
http://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2011/06/17/how-safe-is-the-hpv-vaccine…
So, Marsha do you agree with Dr. Gunter's analysis of the study published in the BMJ...or not? If you disagree with Dr. Gunter's analysis...please be specific about your objections.
When it comes to medical advice and analysis of a study, I think we should give equal weight to a physician whose specialty is OB/GYN and to an "independent political organizer".
I suspect that Marsha's big post exposing the fraud will be as accurate as a Christopher Monckton speech discussing climate science.
@Marsha - thank you very much for posting the link to Dr. Jen Gunter. I found her post to be extremely informative and the conclusions are sound, the HPV vaccine is safe.
Marsha @639: Sorry to burst your bubble, but 'Dr' Joe Mercola is not regarded as a trustworthy source. He sells alt-med junk. He is the type of person who would tell you the sky is green if he thought it would sell more of his stuff.
Umm, no you can't. And your link goes to a Default page, not to an article, so I can't assess the story.
You haven't used credible citations. You have given us accusations that vaccines may or may not have caused harm, but nothing solid. Antaeus Feldspar @636 nailed it:
@ Chemmomo
Because she doesn't give a rat's ass about children. She's all about the "parental rights." Children are their parents' property and so have no rights at all. Any "think of the children" pleas from her are a calculated attempt to sway people by empathy -- something that fails entirely because she has no empathy herself and has no clue how to use it.
@ Marsha
Did you even read the "Dr Jen Gunter" article you cited? Here's what she said at the end of the article:
(Bolding mine.) Are you really that stupid or deluded in thinking that this supported your position at all?
Let me repeat: Where are the published, peer-reviewed studies that show problems with vaccines? Gardasil in particular, since that's the one that seems to be causing you heartburn today. Where's the "brave maverick doctor" who is willing to present data, not opinion or anecdote? I'm sure that your fellow paranoiacs would be more than happy to fund such a study -- why hasn't it been done?
Marsha is begging for her friends to come help her... It's too sad to be funny...
Marsha McClelland
I've been burying these shills in truth who include quack doctors & nurses paid to hold our children in harm's way of vaccines & many other toxins delivered by air, food, water & other bad drugs.
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/12/jenny_mccarthy_plans_to_promo…
No one has come to help lately & I'm surprised as these are the big boys, the main characters we are up against working to continue the vaccine cover up.
These are your children so I expected more of you would want to have your say, too. Some of our people have been there way back in the thread but maybe you watching don't want to get in there because I of late, all by myself, am creaming them so well, that you think I don't need back up. But I do so those silently watching, looking for the truth, will have it as we bury the liars in their own muck.
My motive is to discourage the shills from even bothering to post their articles of bogus deception so it is important we take these liars out in order to save children from the same fate so many have already met with.
You don't have to argue with them. That's what they want. Just get in & post your facts & get out. This will take team work & we will be the victors.
"Where's my big post that exposed the fraud called science behind vaccines? It was held in moderation as was the last one I made was held but released. That huge one was there first so why is it still being held?
I want to read the spin so please release it so I can do so & make one more post before I get to the BS."
You mean there is MORE bullsh** from Marsha?
@ Marsha
First off, the link you posted doesn't go to any story like that, and searching the 3News web site for "HPV leukemia" doesn't bring anything up at all. Strike one for a link failure.
Second, although I don't know the vaccine schedule in New Zealand, the HPV vaccine is recommended for teens here in the US, not 6 week old babies. I have some very strong doubts about the facts of this supposed article. Strike two.
Third, it tells me that (possibly) a child was given the HPV vaccine and two years later is battling leukemia. Nothing more. That's not even a strong temporal correlation. My son developing sniffles a couple of days after getting the vaccine is a stronger correlation than that, and it's so weak as to be non-existent (he probably caught my cold that I had at the time.) Please look up the post hoc fallacy.
Strike three!
Yes, please do read "How safe is the HPV vaccine? New data available." Here's some highlights:
Emphasis original. Sometimes, people that die shortly after getting a vaccination die from an entirely unrelated event, like a car crash or a pre-existing condition.
Now that was something that looked like it was an adverse event caused by the vaccine, but turned out to be due to another medication started at the same time known to cause that adverse event - a medication that is started at the same time as the vaccine because they both are related to the same potential activity.
Hey, a safety study (7, actually) that directly examines the issue! What a concept. And they are well-designed, with control groups to make sure that the factors identified above are accounted for. Wonder what they found out...
Emphasis original. In other words, it was the shot, not the vaccine itself, that was causing those adverse events that had been positively correlated with the vaccine. (Keeping in mind that many adverse events were simply background noise).
So let's revisit the original question asked: "How safe is the HPV vaccine?"
Thank you for bringing this to our attention, Marsha.
Unfortunately medical students normally study about vaccines for only a few hours and doctors often don't take the time to even read through package inserts. Both medical students and doctors read information which is influenced and has been filtered by the pharmaceutical industry.
In comparison it is often the case that vaccine critics have spent hundreds of hours, even many years studying vaccines and know far more than the average doctor.
We are many who are frustrated, unimpressed and tired of trying to ask about and discuss with doctors about vaccine ingredients, safety statistics, potential long term adverse events including carcinogenicty, synergy, interactions, secondary transmission, concomitant administration, etc.
It is often blatantly obvious that the average doctor has minimal knowledge about the complex issue of vaccination.
â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦
@Mole - too funny. Yes, because attempting a rational discussion with actual scientific facts is obviously beyond her & her agenda....
Well, I want to make that last post for the time being so I can get to reading the rhetoric you spin here that all that truth I sent generated. I would read it now but I don't want you to be able to distract me from all I am working to cover first. So I'm guessing that big post that proved the science behind vaccines fraud has too many links so I will break it down, now.
"Yes Marsha, us demanding actual scientific evidence to justify your wild claims, completely unreasonable....."
But Lawrence you have seen many facts, cites, sites & evidence as the criminals have here many times at lots of their bogus articles of deception, if you really have been paying attention.
Repeating the same lies does not work as it used to. Thank the good that God is for the children's sakes.
The cover up is at its end. The fraud, called science, behind vaccines has been exposed & denial won't work, now.
Itâs time to face reality & stop denying whatâs right in front of our noses. Time to admit error, confront greed & right the wrong.
See a bunch but just a bit of the overwhelming evidence, AGAIN!
âUK âFakedâ National Autism Data To Declare MMR Vaccine âSafeâ
http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2010/02/10/uksurveyautismlink/
And this is only what they got caught with red handed. That red would be the blood of the many child victims some here have worked to hold in harm's way.
âUK General Medical Council Told Docs âCommit Fraud for MMR Vaccine Bonusesâ
http://chiÂldhealthsaÂfety.wordpÂress.com/2Â010/02/13/Âgmc-fraud-Âfor-b…
Marsha,
Everything I have read about HPV vaccines (Gardasil and Cervarix) from reliable sources suggests that they are very safe and effective. Nothing you have posted leads me to think otherwise. I honestly do not understand why you believe they are dangerous and ineffective.
Scientists have genetically engineered yeast to produce proteins that self-assemble to produce virus-like particles. These are similar enough to HPV that they fool our immune systems into producing an immune response to the virus itself. I think this is a fantastic achievement. These vaccines are not made from live viruses, or even from dead viruses, and do not even contain DNA or RNA from pathogens. In theory they should be remarkably safe and, since at least 35 million doses have been administered worldwide, we know that they ARE remarkably safe in practice. I expected those who want safer vaccines to welcome this development with open arms, but I suppose I am naive.
Each shot of Gardasil contains 120 micrograms of HPV proteins, 225 micrograms of aluminum (as Amorphous Aluminum Hydroxyphosphate Sulfate adjuvant), 9.56 mg of sodium chloride, 0.78 mg of L-histidine, 50 mcg of polysorbate 80, 35 mcg of sodium borate, less than 7 mcg yeast protein and water.
To put this into context, consider that a drop of water weighs approximately 50,000 micrograms. None of these ingredients is even remotely toxic at such tiny doses.
We are made of proteins, our bodies are designed to process proteins in our food, and even to deal with living microorganisms made of proteins that have evolved to evade our immune systems with the aim of eating us. You would expect our bodies to be able to deal effectively with a tiny amount of inert protein like this.
An IM injection of 225 micrograms of aluminum adjuvant barely increases blood levels of aluminum. Sodium chloride is common salt. L-histidine is an essential amino acid. Polysorbate is similar to the detergent used to wash dishes in an amount that is barely visible and certainly too tiny to harm a fly. Sodium borate is often recommended by alternative health proponents as a supplement in doses hundreds of times higher than this. Yeast protein is present in many foods in quantities thousands of times higher than this.
I see no reason to think that any of these ingredients could possibly cause any serious problems apart from anaphylaxis in a very few susceptible individuals, and the person administering the vaccine should be aware of this. You can also suffer anaphylaxis from a peanut butter sandwich, of course.
I repeat, I honestly do not understand why you believe these vaccines are dangerous and ineffective.
Whoops. I forgot to see if that link was dead & it was.
http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2010/02/13/gmc-fraud-for-bonuses/
Well Marsha, if it helps you to know, both of my kids got their vaccines this morning, right on schedule and up to snuff on everything....and would you care to address your link to an extremely pro-HPV doctor (Dr. Jen Gunter)? Since you seem to be against all vaccines, it was strange that you brought that out as some kind of "evidence."
And your latest link is too funny as well - given the rest of the material on that website.
And I have been paying attention, attention to actual evidence, conversations with my Pediatrician, and research based on reality, not the conspriracy-laced world in which you reside. Good luck trying to get your "friends" to back you up, if there evidence is anything like your own, it should be fun to watch.
This is very old but just goes to show how long these crimes have been going on world wide.
âThalidomiÂdeâ doctor alleges plot to gag himâ
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/thalidomide-doctor-alleges-plot…
Marsha, I realise I'm now going around in circles, but Clifford Miller isn't a credible source either.
Marsha's link-fail story about the two year old boy diagnosed with AML can be found at:
Sciblogs-Vaccine Fear-Mongering/Infectious Thoughts
Do I detect a pattern here? It seems Marsha is prudishly fixated on a vaccine that prevents a sexually transmissible virus.
Get a life Marsha and get some sex education about the manner in which the HPV is transmitted. Research reputable sources how the HPV can impair fertility and cause cervical cancer.
And for the record this last claim may not be concerning vaccines which is the topic here but cannot be discounted as some here work for these same criminals with vested interests who make their profit from poisoning us by air, food, water, bad drugs & other toxins let loose on our babies & children & condoned by their partners in crime like at the FDA & so forth.
Too many awake now to deny, deny, deny!
LOL - and here comes the Pharma-shill gambit....
Marsha, you came into a room of total strangers and expected everyone to hang on your every word without question. You expected everyone to be impressed when you boasted of upcoming victories, not realizing how childish you were. If your understanding of basic human behavior is so flawed, what does that make everything else you say?
âPfizer to pay $142M for drug fraudâ
http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2010/03/25/gabapentin-ubc.html
This is nothing new & goes on all the time. The pHARMs don't care they have so much money!
It is like being a crank somehow vaccinates a person against typing like a normal human being.
âFeds found Pfizer too big to nailâ
So guess who takes the rap?
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-04-02/health/pfizer.bextra_1_bextra-pfizer…
Well, I want to make that last post for the time being
You seem to have a real problem with this whole "last" concept.
âPeer review trickeryâ
http://classic.the-scientist.com/blog/display/57130/
Shame on all the lying scientists! They will be held accountable along with all criminals in the light when the ax falls.
@Narad - no kidding. Is this the last, last, last, last post Marsha? Or do you just enjoy spamming threads?
And you seem to have a real problem answering direct questions, like why did you link to Dr. Jen Gunter's website, unless you support her conclusion that the HPV vaccine is safe?
Or, more likely, you just looked at the title of her blog post before deciding to repost it (reading comprehension fail).
@ lilady
Thanks for the info on the incident. I'll give Marsha strike 2 back, but not the other two. Perhaps the dramatic application of post hoc is worth two (or even three) strikes by itself.
I haven't really noticed any sex-related issues with Marsha and Gardasil -- it's more the "they're forcing our kids/taking away our parental rights" pseudo-libertarian thing with her. There are plenty (i.e. Michele Bachmann) who clearly do have an issue with this being a vaccine for a mainly sexually-transmitted disease. It's the same thing with condoms and other measures "If you make it safer, you're giving them permission to have SEX!"
I'm not done. I want my whole post to be reviewed since it would not as a whole. Good thing too as most of the links were killed. Please hold your spin until I can get to it. No snapping please until later so I will be able to keep up with you. I promise I will answer every sincere comment.
NEJM editor: âNo longer possible to believe most clinical research publishedâ
http://ethicalnag.org/2009/11/09/nejm-editor/
Almost done, please hold your tongue or fingers for that matter.
A new breed of doctors are coming up with ethics that will save us all>>>
"Harvard Medical Students Rebel Against Big Pharma Ties"
http://www.ahrp.org/cms/content/view/523/9/
I guess spamming the thread is the order of the day.....
We've been very busy raising the next generation in awareness & it's finally paying off.
No one's army can continue such a massive cover up when the masses have awakened.
"Med Schools Pressed To Cut Drug-Firm Ties"
http://www.wbur.org/npr/102015719/med-schools-pressed-to-cut-drug-firm-…
Almost done, please hold your tongue or fingers for that matter.
Oh, look, granny is giving orders.
So if I read this right and if it was accurate, doctors in the UK have been advised to change numbers they report so that they can still get a bonus even if the parents of their patients decline the MMR vaccine. How does that relate to vaccine safety or effectiveness?
I have one in moderation & when, if, I see it I will finish up & read the BS.
( Oh well, I have a break before my next appointment, so why not?)
@ Marsha McClellan:
Did you ever think that the materials you present may- in fact- represent someone's self-interest? That those who rage against vaccines may *possibly* be motivated by factors other than altruism? Perhaps what SBM teaches about vaccines might ideed run contrary to these interests.
Mercola - and Adams and Null- sell products that are meant to optimise health *without* recourse to pharmaceutical products. Thus they are *competitors*. In addition to the monetary issue, there is also the ego-enhancement of imagining themselves to be superior to the medical establishment as a source of health information. Websites like NVIC or AoA - in additional to being fuelled by personal, emotional issues- also are avenues for fame, if not fortune: as publicity engines. A person with very little relevant education may take on the world as a critic: couldn't *anyone* then?
I support SBM because it makes sense and follows logically from my own studies. I do not earn money by supporting SBM or pharmaceutical products; I do counsel people about education and other issues . Amazingly, my own investment income includes hardly any pharma stock.
Marsha:
Did you read the article? It concludes:
"The HPV vaccine is safe. It's effective. End of discussion."
What's your point????
Make that two in moderation. I know it was a lot. Did I bury you in too much truth to handle? Was I cut off? I do hope I'm allowed to place my whole post so I can read the love notes you sent me. You do want me to read your BS to see if you can get a reaction, don't you? I'll watch a bit more & if they don't post I'll know I'm done here & take that as a victory over all the deception dished out here.
Maybe the reason my 'one' post, not 2, my mistake, is being held is that the great & utterly wrong, callous & evil Orac is out looking for new work since his job is about to be eliminated? One would think as infamous as he is he would have trusted minions to moderate for him.
Grandma Marsha - perhaps you should slow down your Gish gallop long enough to actually read some of the things you're posting. Otherwise people might think you're just randomly grabbing stories that you think support your argument and prematurely declaring victory.
"It is often blatantly obvious that the average doctor has minimal knowledge about the complex issue of vaccination.
â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦
Posted by: Mindanoiha | January 4, 2012 2:35 PM"
Mindanoiha Channel on YouTube has its first "guest speaker" video of Dr. Rebecca Carley...what a joke.
Carley really took Mindanoiha for a ride when he introduced her as a "doctor who left allopathic medicine, because her son was 'vaccine-injured' and she found treatment for him...outside of allopathic medicine". Mindahoiha also reads from her website all her credentials/clinical assignments.
Hello Mindanoiha...check out "Rebecca Carley OPMC" on the web. The New York State OPMC (Office of Professional Medical Conduct) has the actual "circumstances" of Carley "leaving allopathic medicine"...her medical license was suspended while she was supposed to get intense psychiatric therapy...then revoked, when she failed to comply with the decision of the NYS Medical Licensing Board.
Make certain you read the complete record of the proceedings Mindanoiha, that include the testimony of the few doctors she subpoenaed to come to her defense. These doctors offered grim testimony about her mental illness and her anti-social personality disorder that were manifested during her medical residencies. She was examined by psychiatrists during the proceedings and found to be severely mentally ill.
She "spins" her history quite differently on her websites, claiming that Big Pharma, Big Government, The NYS Court System all conspired against her to take custody of her child away from her and remove her license...a total fabrication from the dark recesses of her paranoid mind.
Make certain to also read the "stunts" she pulled during court-supervised visits with her son, whose custody was awarded to the child's father.
Nice Going Mindanoiha!
P.S. I've had telephone conversations with Carley when I worked as a public health nurse...she really is certifiably insane.
@Mindanoiha
While some doctors may not have enough time to keep up with the published literature, you're ignoring all those physicians and researchers whose area of specialization/expertise is the study of vaccines and immunology. These are people who have dedicated their careers to the study of vaccines.
You also seem to imply that only those who are anti-vaccine or critical of vaccines have done any in-depth study or reading about vaccines, when those of us who support vaccines have also spent a good deal of time reading published studies. Question for you: how many vaccine critics have actually conducted clinical trials on vaccines as opposed to simply sitting about reading things on the internet?
So to summarize the truth:
1. Companies, including pharmaceutical companies, have broken the law from time to time.
2. College students are concerned that at some medical schools there appear to be insufficient controls on money from pharmaceutical companies - in particular, that they might be affecting the course content.
3. Some people think that vaccines cause problems no matter what the science says.
4. The HPV vaccine is safe and effective.
What did I miss?
You do want me to read your BS to see if you can get a reaction, don't you?
I for one see no reason to think that your "reactions" would be any different from your already elaborated shtick, so no, not especially.
@ Mindanoiha...stick around. I too, have a comment in moderation about your heroine Rebecca Carley...it's a hoot.
Grandma: Why do you think Orac...a double doc...who is the director of a breast cancer research laboratory AND a breast cancer surgeon will be unemployed? Come to think of it, where are you gainfully employed? Inquiring minds want to know!
Oh, yes, missed one - people who aren't vaccinating are putting people at risk of catching highly contagious and sometimes crippling or fatal diseases.
This rang a bell:
I was reading about Dr William McBride recently when I was researching thalidomide. He was right about thalidomide causing birth defects back in the 60s but also claimed that these birth defects are inheritable, which they are not. The increased frequency of birth defects in the offspring of those affected by thalidomide is almost certainly due to misdiagnosis of inheritable birth defects as having been caused by thalidomide. McBride went off the deep end over Debendox and falsified data for which he was rightly struck off. I don't think he is good evidence for Big Pharma suppressing brave maverick doctors (/understatement).
@ Marsha
Or, you posted too many comments in rapid succession, or had too many links or many other reasons comments get held up in moderation. Funny thing -- I'm a regular poster and certainly a supporter of Science Based Medicine (and Orac), yet I've got a comment in moderation right now.
Personally, I'm hoping that Orac gets around to releasing your two posts soon -- this has been entertaining so far, so I'm certain that there will be lots of laughs from those two.
Contrary to what you might think, it's really not all about you. I know that you want to feel special, and imagining persecution is one way to feel special, but it's really not very healthy.
@Mephistopheles
You've got it right, as far as it goes. What's missing is the tin-foil hat brigade's "Coincidence? I think not!" Rather than being a bunch of "yeah, so?" all the items you list are clear evidence of the imminent breakdown of the entire pharma-industrial complex.
Marsha,
Perhaps you should try a different approach.
After going through Marsha's facebook page, I believe she is the poster child for Matt Taibbi book, "The Great Derangement."
I'll see if you comment in the next two minutes. If not, I will take that as a victory... You know, since we're setting our own parameters of what a victory is, or, in your case, what science is.
@Marsha
Or it could be that he's busy either researching or helping patients. Nah. That couldn't be it.
And who are these people "at risk of catching highly contagious and sometimes crippling or fatal diseases"?
According to Paul Offit, the mentally retarded children are more vulnerable than other children.
Just saying.
@ArtK,
Ah! I neglected to make that connection. Should I also add, "They said I was mad. Mad! But I'll show them! I'll show them ALL!" or possibly "They'll rue the day..."?
VICTORY!
My work here is done.
@ Todd W.
But you CAN'T possibly have Read and Studied the SAME THINGS or you would have come to the RIGHT CONCLUSION!!!1!!!!!
But reading things on the 'net is how research is done at University of Google. And, as we know, that's the only true reliable university out there. All the others are beholden to Big Pharma so they can't possibly be trusted.
@ lilady
"I too, have a comment in moderation about your heroine Rebecca Carley...it's a hoot."
Wow. I just read up about her at the quackfiles blog. She's a poster girl for the antivax movement? With friends like these...
@ Mephistopheles
Absolutely. Add a fiendish Bwahahahaha! and you've got it!
I take my hat off (well, I would if I wore one regularly) to all those here who counter nonsense with wit, humour & science (& no, Marsha, I don't mean you). Following the proceedings has certainly made a big dent in the popcorn supply, though :-)
@Marsha,
You're doing the very same mistake I have seen all anti-vaxxers to do: you confuse correlation with causation.
Let me explain: there is a correlation with increased sales in ice cream and drowning in the Scandinavian countries. This is because people there buy more ice cream during the summer months when the lakes and rivers there are not frozen and actually warm enough to swim or boat in. This correlation, however, does not mean that eating ice cream causes drowning, so the causation is not there.
Children can develop serious conditions weeks or months after receiving vaccines, but it does not imply there is causation, just that there is a correlation - and not even a good one, since if the condition was caused by vaccination, it would develop sooner than that - as the real cases show.
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm
Vaccines can have side-effects, which is something that nobody denies, but what is known is that serious side-effects are very rare. Let me quote: "Of all deaths reported to VAERS between 1990 and 1992, only one is believed to be even possibly associated with a vaccine."
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/6mishome.htm
This is just one vaccine-associated death per millions of doses.
@ Hinterlander: Carley is featured on the first video at Mindahoiha Channel on YouTube.
Please Orac, get my comment out of moderation...I write about my personal experiences with this loony quack.
BTW, Please do not feed delusional etc., etc. It needs "terminal disinfection".
@lilady - I think we've done a good job ignoring it. I would just not even post next time....
I have been told, on good authority, that in Canada, 12 year old girls are able to access abortions without parental consent or involvement (I caution that I am not a lawyer and that this may not be entirely accurate). I think Marsha's head would explode if she had to deal with this - I for one would almost enjoy seeing that.
Of course, it will surprise no one to find that Thingy was misreading what Offit wrote. Offit was writing about the 1960s, and he was not speaking of developmentally delayed children in general, but specifically those who occupied the overcrowded state-run institutions. It should be no surprise that people in overcrowded environments are more vulnerable than their peers in less crowded settings, all other things being equal.
I see where you are coming from. No it's not a sarcasm. Mentally retarded children are more vulnerable than other children especially those who occupied the overcrowded state-run institutions.
I see. So Thing-dong can only envision one reason to have children in state-run institutions. Tell that to the Duplessis orphans in Quebec.
Speaking of people's heads exploding, I suspect the hard-core antivaxers who read the current issue of Consumer Reports may be at risk.
The short article on the anti-HPV vaccine Gardasil highly recommends it, noting among other things that it is at least as safe as other vaccines (if one is convinced that all vaccines are toxin-ridden tools of the devil, this probably won't be seen as reassuring :)
The author may be somewhat premature when she indicates that the vaccine will be valuable for protecting people against oropharyngeal cancers caused by HPV (the percentage of these linked to HPV has been increasing). The vaccine does protect against type 16 which is found in many such cancers, but I don't believe that Gardasil is specifically licensed for preventing oropharynageal cancers (as opposed to cervical and anal cancers).
I'm always gratified to see articles such as this, which are liable to have far greater impact than a thousand spittle-flecked antivax screeds online, or even an airline PSA.
@ Antaeus Feldspar: It always "conveniently" misquotes Dr. Offit and others, who discuss the manner in which residents of the Willowbrook State School (developmental center) were used by Dr. Saul Krugman to test hepatitis B vaccine. Indeed, Orac has blogged about the "ethics" of such testing.
I have posted comments extensively and written articles (under my real name), about the deplorable overcrowded conditions at Willowbrook and other state developmental centers and the human experimentation that took place at Willowbrook.
The youngsters at Willowbrook couldn't give "informed consent" and the "informed consent" that their parents were presented with, omitted the fact that their children would be deliberately exposed to the hepatitis B virus.
An interesting piece of the story of the development and testing of the first hepatitis B vaccine, is that volunteers...gay men in Manhattan...did give informed consent for testing of the efficacy of the vaccine. We owe them our thanks.
I wonder if I've read Martha's comments on Hot Air; the style seems familiar, especially the ability to completely ignore (even her own) facts running contrary to her argument.
But the Jen Gunther link is a crowning achievement. I've seen people shoot themselves in the foot, but rarely while standing on a tanker car filled with gasoline.
@Mu - with a flare gun even....that one was priceless!
I have a comment in moderation wherein I ask Ms McClellan if those who provide alt med and anti-vaxx information are free of COIs and then discuss possible motivations for their beliefs.
Why is Big Pharma sponsoring Marsha's dozens of posts here? Is she a disinformation agent, paid off to mock antivaxxers with crazy comments? I can't think of any other reason a known pharma blog like this one would host her here, can you?
@ lilady: My memory may be at fault, but I'm pretty sure that the specific passage it's quoting from Offit is not about the testing at Willowbrook, but about tests of other vaccines that were conducted at state-run institutions. The testing at Willowbrook was of course unethical because the patients were being deliberately exposed to the infectious agent, but many people might assume that testing at other institutions was similarly unethical simply because the patients were developmentally disabled. In reality, the vaccines were being tested at the institutions for the same reason you'd test a potential anti-tornado measure in Kansas or Oklahoma rather than Maine: it's where such protection is most likely to be tested by the course of events.
Marsha's been calling out for help from the 'troops' on various anti-vaccination sites:
https://www.facebook.com/vaccineinfo
"I've been burying these shills in truth who include quack doctors & nurses paid to hold our children in harm's way of vaccines & many other toxins delivered by air, food, water & other bad drugs."
Followed by:
"No one has come to help lately & I'm surprised as these are the big boys, the main characters we are up against working to continue the vaccine cover up.
These are your children so I expected more of you would want to have your say, too. Some of our people have been there way back in the thread but maybe you watching don't want to get in there because I of late, all by myself, am creaming them so well, that you think I don't need back up. But I do so those silently watching, looking for the truth, will have it as we bury the liars in their own muck.
My motive is to discourage the shills from even bothering to post their articles of bogus deception so it is important we take these liars out in order to save children from the same fate so many have already met with.
You don't have to argue with them. That's what they want. Just get in & post your facts & get out. This will take team work & we will be the victors."
So which is it, Marsha - are you burying them? If so, why would you need your 'posse' to come and back you up?
Perhaps you're the one being buried?
Speaking of pharma shills, the notorious ZdoggMD has posted a rap on, well, pharma shillin' with a cameo appearance by the adorable Zpupp
Click on my name to go to the link
My apologies to Marsha for my last post, which was intended as lighthearted banter between ArtK and myself and not intended to mock her.
"No one has come to help lately & I'm surprised as these are the big boys, the main characters we are up against working to continue the vaccine cover up. "
Orac really hasn't learned how to do a coverup yet - the antivax websites are much better at deleting comments and banning people who dare disagree with the commissars.
It's nice to be one of the "big boys". I just wish the payments were commensurate with my exalted status.
Vaccinated: One Man's Quest to Defeat the World's Deadliest Diseases By Paul A. Offit p. 47
Again, let me repeat what Paul Offit had said about mentally retarded children,
May be those retards are good benchmarking tools for these vaccinators.
Thingy you ought to know about "institutions"...have your keepers where you crash periodically, given you access to a computer again?
How long are you crashing again...until you go back to your cardboard box on the street or the cave or sewer you crawl out of?
Nice to sponge off society...delusional, uneducated, unemployable health-care professional wannabe *SFB Troll that should be "terminally disinfected"
*SH** FOR BRAINS
Where is Marsha? Here's one pharma shill who is looking to engage her. She really is delusional.
If we can run this to 1000 comments Big Farmer will give Orac a pony.
Hey Marsha - how about them chemtrails eh.
@Gray Falcon:
It's worse than that: she came into a room of total strangers and accused one half of being shills and the other half of being dupes.
@Thomas:
Ah, but according to Marhsa, the reason she can tell Orac is "one of the big boys" among pharma shills is that he doesn't delete comments or ban people.
FWIW â
Thingy's training/background in medicine or science (in Thingy's own words):
"Let's just say I worked in a hospital before but I quit after I have [sic] realized the real reason why people get sick..."
Dishwashers in hospital cafeterias also work in hospitals but require little if any medical or scientific training. Perhaps, Thingy, you'd care to provide more-specific details?
There, that's my first post here.
And I love money.
So how long do I have to wait for my check ?
(I'll also accept eCreditsâ¢)
@Rowrbazzle! Thingy also made reference here about its past history of "being involved in the health care system".
It also stated that containment of measles case in a health care facility is "in the hospital where I work done by terminal disinfection".
It is unqualified, due to its lack of education and delusions, to work in any capacity in any health care facility.
Just a nasty, delusional, ignorant, uneducated, disease-promoting, health-care-professional wannabe, SFB on-the-dole troll in need of "terminal disinfection".
I see my big post finally made it as I scanned this thread for the comments I made so I will get back here as soon as I can to read your many posts picking on me in uncivil manner as is you usual, I am pretty sure. I'm too tired now as I have been very busy as you can see, in part, by looking at my Face Book wall.
How about that Ron Paul you make fun of making it in the important top three after all in the Iowa caucus? Now he will be heard & truth can't help but come out on this man who will save our nation & help us take back what's ours including the health & well being of our children.
He's old all right but being & doctor, not like the quacks who couldn't care less about us that this site represents & uses to fool good & unsuspecting people who should be doing their own research instead of beLIEving the bull here parroted so he's healthier than any of the other candidates who are all puppets.
I am aborting the pHARMa fraud proof that all together adds up to the facts & is undeniable as anyone looking for truth can clearly see. You can only beat truth for so long because wise people wake sooner or later.
I'm posting that last article I wanted you to see at this time in a minute.
I want to acknowledge, first, the links in my big post of pHarma fraud were dead & tell you if anyone wants to read them that I didn't already repost with live links just paste the description in your search engine.
I will reply to any civil or sincere comments when I can & then leave you be until the next time one of your bogus articles of deception is called to my attention.
Here's that link where you'll see we the parents of vaccine injured children & concerned citizens have taken matters into our own hands by placing billboards across the nation alerting parents to their rights to know that "No Shots, No School, is not true. California is next.
http://vaxtruth.org/
Wow! Amazing nonsense from the anti-vax folks. Marsha, I don't think your (((((action alert!!!!)))) worked so well.
Just in case any of you were considering voting for Ron Paul, according to Marsha, "Dr. Ron Paul is an honorary member of Michigan Opposing Mandatory Vaccines since 1996 and supports the right of parents and people to make vaccine decisions! I love what this man stands for!!!!"
Great reason not to vote for him.
Just curious... what is it with these clowns and threats of getting someone fired? Does anyone have a DSM handy?
Broken Link: Marsha is home in Ohio, licking her wounds and trying to figure out her next "career move"...there aren't too many jobs available for an "independent political organizer", without an education and functionally illiterate.
Stu...try looking up narcissism and bi-polar disorder.
Gramma Marsha is basically just spamming this article.
She comes here, unloads her garbage truck and leaves - without bothering to read anyone's posts addressed to her. It was hilarious to read the sequence of: Unloaded garbage -> Post by a commentator pointing out that she is unloading garbage here -> another load of garbage, oblivious to the objections.
She is no doubts in her mind that she can ever be wrong and so she doesn't have to read any of our 'gibberish'.
Her attempts at trying to 'expose' us reminds me (sort of) of how my math teacher in 6th grade would jokingly describe the students' angst at getting low grades in math, "I'll catch him in a dark alley and run him over with my tricycle!"
YOU GUYZ - I think we should pay far mor attention to Grammy Marsha's brave whistleblower who bravely put himself in danger from the armies of Big pHarma by telling of all the terrible things he did under their command. After all, without such whistleblowers and their uncorroborated testimonies, many of the most shocking secrets of our time would never have come to light.
"It's worse than that: she came into a room of total strangers and accused one half of being shills and the other half of being dupes."
If Marsha doesn't watch out, she'll be trespassing on Jay Gordon's territory.
There's a Leo Rosten story about an army psychiatrist who is given an ex-mental patient as one of his staff. He asks about it, and the new corpsman explains that when he was drafted, they asked what he did, and he explained he was unemployed.
"What did you do before you were unemployed?"
âI was in the hospital.
"How long were you in the hospital?"
âFive years.
"Was it any special kind of hospital?"
âYes, a mental hospital.
The recruiter writes down "Experience: mental hospital, five years," so of course the patient is assigned as a corpsman.
@ Marsha
I read through your "big" post. Meh. Throwing shit at the wall and admiring the designs it makes isn't research. It isn't discussion. It proves absolutely nothing.
You might want to read up on the Gish Gallop. Hint: It's not a very useful debating technique.
Dangerous Bacon:
Oddly enough, I think you may actually be insulting Jay Gordon by comparing Marsha to him....
And still he ended up with the same thing,
Orac is a pro.
Why go to Canada when you have Jonas Salk and his orphans.
Thing-Dong, stop it. You are being a fool. Look at yourself first and the hurtful things you have said before you start accusing other people.....
Great news;
Wakefield suing Deer, BMJ, et al
http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/01/04/BritMedJ.pdf
He did not explicitly state that the Willowbrook experiment(s) [there was a measles vaccine experiment following the hepatitis experiment that he didn't discuss] was/were unethical. You know it's not polite to interrupt Orac while he's licking his chops. That goes to say, Orac like his compadre Offit, believes that mentally retarded children are more vulnerable than other children. Therefore, Orac is a pro.
@Marsha - I thought you were going to start answering some of our questions.....to busy spewing more garbage?
Wakefield suing Deer, BMJ, et al
I take that you don't have time to, you know, actually read the blog, being so busy slathering it with Polident and all.
ZOMG I hadn't heard this! FFS Marsha keep up will you. Answer the previous questions posed to you and suing doesn't mean won. In fact, it's just a publicity stunt which he has no chance of winning but your lot can chalk that up to the grand conspiracy keeping Wakefield irrelevant.
@ Narad [snort] give some warning next time :D
Perhaps Marsha should be contacting Wakefield's lawyer. She would make an excellent plaintiff's witness...quite possibly the best plaintiff's witness that Andy could come up with.
Hey Marsha, just thought I'd let you know that your political rants might not go very far here - many of us here are from Canada. You know, that lefty country to the north? Where vaccination is pretty much left up to public health and doctors really don't have much to do with it? Where most health care is funded by taxpayers, so no-one is motivated by profits? (Well, except for alt-med - they don't get much public funding, so they are hongray!)
Your ramblings make no sense anyway, but when you try and apply them to anywhere outside of the U.S. they completely fall apart.
Who's Ron Paul?
Bogeymama (#757) asks:
That's a question that not even well-informed citizens of the US can answer. He's advocated so many positions that it's hard to reconcile them all into a single individual.
For me, Dr. Ron Paul is an indicator of immaturity. Just as glucose in the urine is an indicator of diabetes, supporting Ron Paul is generally a sign of immaturity (regardless of chronological age). There are rare exceptions to this rule, of course.
Prometheus
Ron Paul is a racist, bigoted, homophobic, christofascist, anti-vaccine faux-libertarian who gets a lot of traction because he happens to be anti-war as well.
give some warning next time
Upon further reflection, I'm starting to think that it could fly as a meme.
Stu:
He also approves of letting people who shake babies stay out of jail by blaming vaccines. He belongs to the AAPS, and that is one of their more vile beliefs.
As we have seen on this thread, Marsha thinks it is also a good idea to keep people who murder children out of jail by blaming vaccines.
What is homophobic? Is that the fear of homo sapiens?
Pretty dark in that closet, eh Rob?
Hehe, nice.
Hello, Brave Sir Robin Right Wingnut, who has yet morphed again to another sock puppet. Nice to know you also think it is appropriate to murder children and blame vaccines.
Lest I forget to remind you...set your TV to record yet another Republican debate on ABC, this Saturday night at 9 PM (EST). It will be one clown (Bachmann), short of a circus.
Too bad "communique" that there are not 55,000,001 abortionists out of jail...yer mama.
Now go see your colonoscopist and let inspect [sic] your uvula for defects.
This is what passes for an insult in Mississippi?
Given Medicien Man's scatological preoccupation, one wonders the basis for his homophobia. As much of a 'credit' as he is to the anti-vaxx loons, his misogynistic screeds and his use of multiple sock puppets should earn him the ban hammer, for what it is worth.
Given Medicien Man's scatological preoccupation, one wonders the basis for his homophobia.
I find it mildly amusing that this smacks of Luther's Tischreden, which Rob's fringy Southern Baptist fever dream ought to at least have a few qualms about.
No narad, not Mississippi, san fransicko.
Suit yourself. I shall now exclusively address you with your surname and call, Rob Hood, KE5BMP. Enjoy.
Oh, I'm going to enjoy this interaction between Narad and the sock puppets. For way too long he has been harassing with his scat and filth, one of our most respected posters.
Rob Hood, KE5BMP, you can use all the sock puppets that Orac will tolerate. Your filth, your anal fixations, your playing with your own excrement and your downright atrocious writing skills give you away.
@lilady: I appreciate the sentiment, but let's not get carried away. I have a few decent quips and a sprawling bot holding company, but as commenters go, I have gained vastly more than I have contributed.
By that same "logic", masturbation is mass murder.
what is a kesbump? Narad Rampersad the canadian have you mistaken your underwear for your turban again?
You're a genuine tribute to the Amateur Radio Service, Rob Hood, KE5BMP. This is like your own little ARES, albeit with some modifications to the acronym.
@ Narad: Do all these yokels in Eupora Mississippi have amateur radio licenses? I guess if you live in Eupora, its the "in" thing to be a "ham" with your very own call letters.
I bet Rob also has a gun rack on his pickup truck which impresses the ladies at the Dog Ugly Bar & Grill. Are the ladies really impressed with his scat pick-up lines?
Do all these yokels in Eupora Mississippi have amateur radio licenses? I guess if you live in Eupora, its the "in" thing to be a "ham" with your very own call letters.
Well, Rob has a Tech license. It's not all that challenging. Indeed, I gave up entirely my ambitions for a ham license when the Morse requirement was dropped.
Is it wrong of me to miss Marsha? I was looking forward to some weekend entertainment.
Wakefield must really have imposed a tight gag order to keep Marsha "creaming us" with her truthiness.
This thread is epic. Thanks Marsha. You're a hoot.
Big Parma does it again-
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-bc-lt--argentina-vac…
Thank you, ken, for pointing out that "paperwork" is complicated everywhere.
A pharmaceutical company is appealing a fine over sloppy use of consent forms? I agree, Ken, that they should have done their work better (assuming the current judgement against them is a fair one). What's your point?
They killed 14 babies in a clinical trial.
ken@782:
From ken's link @ 779:
Reading comprehension is not ken's strong suit...
What was in the placebo? They are not inert ingredients- a lot contain aluminum.
These were also poor people. GSK is not altruistic or without blame.
Look up the lawsuits against GSK in 2010- if I post links they will probably be held in moderation.
While it's a shame that you invested in buying a dead parrot ken, glueing little tin foil wings onto its lifeless body will still not make it fly.
Thanks for the laughs, ken. By definition placebos are inert, and there would be no reason to put in anything like an aluminum salt.
Though what would be really sad is if the children given a placebo vaccine actually died from the disease that could have been prevented with the vaccine.
Take off your blinders and see the truth, aluminum brain.
And I wouldn't use the tinfoil analogy since tinfoil has been replaced by aluminun
foil.
@Chris-Not really
Ok if you insist...
While it's a shame that you invested in buying a dead parrot ken, glueing little alfoil wings onto its lifeless body will still not make it fly.
I actually bought some tin on Thursday. It is not foil, but a small sheet that my daughter will use for some jewelry making.
Though, ken, is really reaching in his attempts to disparage a pharmaceutical company, completely ignoring that the vaccine actually works and is saving children in 80 countries. Perhaps it is his own blinders that he caused him to not fully read the article he posted.
Yeah, down with that stinky foreign cheese!
Strong work, Ken.
I suppose that you've discounted the possibilities that this indicates that children who did not receive the active ingredients in the vaccine were more likely to die (e.g., from a vaccine-preventable disease) or that this is just random noise. If so, I suppose that this indicates that the vaccine protects children from the toxic effect of dreaded aluminum. The latter would be great news for the manufacturer, since breast milk contains aluminum, and -- as you may know -- many children consume that apparently toxic substance.
No convincing work has been published exonerating cumulative effects of aluminum in vaccines.
Read the studies-injected vs. ingested-still not convinced. There is need for more.
Oh Hi Ken, still slamming Prevnar made by your imaginary employer Pfizer? For those that don't know, Ken here spams in the name of championing Mark Livingston, a failed whistleblower who was fired from Wyeth years ago. Ken claims to work for Pfizer.
"No convincing work has been published showing damage from the cumulative effects of aluminum in vaccines."
Fix it for you.
ken:
Considering you have trouble reading a news article you posted, why would we care about your opinion on real science, which you would understand even less?
@Chris-They duped 80 countries.
Yeah, down with that stinky foreign cheese!
Now I want to make that really good baked pasta recipe with three cheeses and brown gravy.
Suggest you read this:
http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8916.html
dedicated lurker, brown gravy?
ken, the only one who is duped is you. What about the book do you find relevant? You demonstrated that you were unable to read a simple news article. Why would we trust that you understood a full book?
@Chris- Your distortions of the truth are very clever. You are only fooling yourself.
Why should I believe Orac's minions aainst all the MDs and researchers out there starting to question Big Pharma and their vaccines. In the majority of cases they do not disclose their vaccine placebo ingredients, have had egregious drug safety issues
in the past, held the CDC hostage by threatening not to produce vaccines and duped a lot of pediatricians.
Ken:
Ha ha... I'm not the one who misread the news article.
Actually, we listen to the real ones. Like John Salamore (who helped switch polio vaccine from OPV to IPV), and the group that withdrew the RotaShield vaccine, and the other group that decided not to use the MMRV vaccine for toddlers. They actually have written scientific papers, and had discussions with other qualified researchers.
And lets us not forget that Dr. Paul Offit wrote a whole book on what happened when a dangerous vaccine was used. You might try reading it, it is called The Cutter Incident.
If you have other examples that you feel are appropriate, then post the title, journal and dates of the studies that show vaccines on the present American pediatric schedule are under question. I just checked PubMed for "Pneumococcal vaccine safety" and found over 350 articles. One of them must be from one of those doctors who are questioning "Big Pharma."
@Chris-You fail to grasp "cumulative effect" I wouldn't say "ha ha" rather infantile
aren't you. Rather defend a position than search for the truth.
I support the polio vaccine and the good it's done, (not the OPV)
The "real ones" have been hit with overwhelming evidence, of course they will
admit when they are wrong.
ken, where is your real evidence then? Even a scrap among the 350 articles?
Here's some more red meat for "ken" to chew on.
The FDA expanded the use of Prevnar 13 for people ages 50 and above on December 30, 2011.
CDC estimates that this older population is hospitalized 300,000 times each year due to pneumococcal disease.
@ Science Mom: Why didn't our expert/employee of Pfizer know about the FDA approval of Prevnar 13 for people ages 50 and above? Prevnar 13 is manufactured by "ken's employer" Pfizer.
Heavy on bluster, short on stats. Define "all" ken. Define the questions too while you aren't at it.
So much for your employment there ken; all excipients have to be disclosed in order to acquire licensure. Do you really think that an FDA or EMEA application for a vaccine can include the syntax, "we don't wanna tell you what's in it"? "Egregious drug safety issues" = more vapid rhetoric.
No again Einstein, vaccine manufacturers were being sued into oblivion and couldn't afford to continue with biologicals production, hence the NVICP. Psssst, the vast majority of vaccine research is not done by pharma.
Here you go, Chris. Probably not the healthiest meal, but it's delicious.
Ken,
No convincing work has been published exonerating cumulative effects of 3,3'-Diindolylmethane in broccoli either, for the same reason. There is no good reason to think that either aluminum in vaccines or 3,3'-Diindolylmethane in broccoli could possibly cause any harm. There has been work showing the excretion of radioactively labelled aluminum from intramuscularly injected aluminum adjuvants in rabbits that looks very convincing to me.
Look at the link at #406 and at my discussion of it at #480. The amount of aluminum absorbed into the blood stream is about the same as we get from food, water and air and is easily excreted. Unless there is some remarkable difference between aluminum in food, water and air and aluminum in vaccines, and there isn't, there is no reason at all to think our bodies are affected by them any differently.
@Chris- Found the Nature article you alluded to- John Salamone was a parent whose son contracted polio from the OPV vaccine- (Polio is just so obvious)
Good reason to listen to parents who notice their child acting very differently after
a # of vaccine doses- like high pitched screaming for hours.
From the Nature article-
"John Salamone is not a vaccine sceptic. He has never been persuaded by spurious claims that vaccines are toxic to children and responsible for autism or a host of other ailments. But tragically, Salamone found out first-hand that vaccines do have real, rare side effects when he saw his infant son, David, become weak and unable to crawl shortly after receiving the oral polio vaccine in 1990. After about two years of physical therapy and doctors' visits, Salamone learned that owing to a weakened immune system, David had contracted polio from the vaccine. "We basically gave him polio that day," says Salamone, who has retired from a position as a non-profit executive, and lives in Mount Holly, Virginia."
@Krebiozen- thanks for the info on broccoli since I eat it about 3X wk-
might be cumulative.
What was in the placebo?
The COMPAS/Synflorix placebo appears upon cursory examination to have been a hepatitis vaccine (PowerPoint warning).
Ken...didn't you get the memo from "your employer-Pfizer" about the approval of Prevnar 13 for people ages 50 and older?
Or...are you just full of it?
There are a # of kens-I am not employed by P-that was her assumption.
^ Havrix, I presume. (PDF warning this time; p. 15).
ken, John Salamone worked with the system and was actually a member of ACIP. You can read more in Dr. Paul Offit's book Deadly Choices.
@Chris-Oh! That explains it- if a parent is not a member of ClubACIP they are not listened to.
No ken, vaccine-associated-paralytic-polio is a very real and rare adverse event. And these claims by parents who see vaccine reactions in just about every child they know just trivialises the real and rare serious adverse events. And ken, I am familiar with you and your M.O.
ken, he became a member of ACIP due to his sensible work in changing the vaccine schedule. He provided real data, and according to Dr. Offit, his efforts were actually hampered by Barbara Loe Fisher. She actually made the real scientists gun-shy due to her tactics.
Again, read the book I mentioned.
And ken, I am familiar with you and your M.O.
Does this generally involve asking questions and ignoring answers?
This is all I could find on the GSK control (placebo) group in the Synflorix trial in Argentina.
The control group was given:
3X Havrix
3X Energix B (hepatitis B vaccine)
4 X DTPa-IPV/Hib vaccination
Each group then received 10 vaccinations - some of them simultaneously
Inert ingedients -NOT!
The control group was given:
What did they generally have for lunch? You can't just list the regular pediatric schedule and claim that it's "the placebo."
Narad:
I beg to differ. I skip over the actual Th1/Th2âs posts, but I read the bot!
Hey ken (of the famous album cover? I wonder), you don't get all three hep B doses at once. I had to get that as an adult since it didn't exist at the time I was born, and I had to wait three months after the first dose and six months after the second. (Technically it was the combination a/b one, since it was the same cost.)
@narad- translate the links you posted. What was given the control group? A placebo I presume. What was in the placebo? They state that the 14 babies that died received a placebo.
"Translate"? The COMPAS placebo by all lights was hep A vaccine. What part of this needs translating? I'm not going to root around in the Castellano stuff if you can't be troubled to read some freaking English slides.
Ken,
Iâll admit I havenât read the study that concerns you, and Iâm not going to scoll back through your comments and try to figure out which link it is (if you even did link it. Your posts today in general are not particularly clear.)
But letâs think about this for a moment. If youâre going to test a process for safety, do you run tests under real world conditions?
Think about it.
The placebo is for the vaccine that is being studied â not for the other vaccines that will normally be given alongside it. Adding changes to whatâs normally given just muddies the picture.
Well, the placebo may not have exclusively been Hep A. I only have access to the first page of this. There is the issue of whether there were methodological differences between Argentina (the reason this story is suddenly making the rounds), Panama, and Chile, or at least there would be if there were any identifiable issue to start with.
@Chemmomo-
@779 "Both Argentine health officials and London-based GlaxoSmithKline PLC said there are no links between the drug and the deaths of 14 babies who participated in the trials. Argentina's drug regulator, ANMAT, said in a statement Tuesday that "all of these patients had been given a placebo â that's to say, something that appeared to be the vaccine but that had no active ingredients. The vaccine is safe."
I asked what was in the placebo- trying to find what the control group received-
only found a German post@882 which I quoted-then narad said it was@813 @816 @827 was HepA vaccine.
Ken,
If you're only trying to find out what's in the placebo, why did you (@822) express with outrage that the control group had received other vaccines? And if you're wondering why I asked you that, re-read my earlier comment @822
Ooops. @828 the second time. That's what I get for hitting post instead of preview for only 2 sentences.
Thank you all for your input.
The post by Silvermaven @576 is probably the funniest post I have ever read that is unintentionally so. It is pure pulp/serial/B-movie ranting, and I am probably going to use it (scrubbed of identifying features) just because it is so amusing.
However, reading Silvermaven's other posts just made me sad and conflicted. Sure the posts and responses are amusing, but, in my unprofessional opinion, that individual seems to have some sort of mental illness. (I am not saying that as some sort of insult--I personally suffer from severe depression, anxiety, and ADHD.) While some individuals here just seem to be trolls, others seem more fundamentally disturbed and the slamming, however justified, then just seems cruel.
Perhaps I am over-thinking it or being oversensitive (one reason I don't normally involving myself in most comment threads), but I actually kept myself awake thinking about what is the most ethical and humane response to these individuals. Would it be best to ban them, or would that just lead to more feelings of persecution? I suppose that banning is probably impractical anyway given all the ways around it, and it could border on censorship. Perhaps the most humane and ethical response would be to just politely respond to them and then ignore them as much as possible?
I wish it really were possible to have positive, informative interactions with some of these vaccine deniers, but I see that it is probably not. Silvermaven's thought processes seem to be just too clouded and random. Possibly only slightly more likely, I wish I could have a calm, non-accusatory conversation with Marsha to understand how conflicting information--like the blog post she seems to have mistakenly cited that was so firmly supportive of the safety of the HPV vaccines--is processed and dismissed, and how she then justifies pretending (it seems) that it never happened. But, given that such conversations with the more disturbed and fanatical individuals are probably impossible, perhaps there could just be a greater focus on the potential non-commenting, non-fanatic members of the audience. Providing more good, informative and polite answers to even the bad, insincere questions from individuals who will not consider or even read the answers still has the possibility of answers reaching these more reasonable people.
For what it is worth, my post above was held for moderator approval, despite it:
1) having no hyperlinks, inappropriate language, etc.;
2) being (IMO) pro-vaccine/RI/...;
3) being first post (at least on this thread).
(It was probably just too long. Sorry!)
I only mention it because others were being a little too conspiratorial about having some of their comments being held up for moderation.
The propaganda is coming from the vaccine pushers, backed by big pharma. Jenny McCarthy is fighting for the truth. If vaccines are so safe then why does the government shield the drug companies from all liability, while at the same time the supreme court has ruled that vaccines are unsafe by design.
Seems like the suites are pretty clear about the dangers even while claiming how safe they are.
DK, do you have any actual data or evidence to back your assertions? Or are you perhaps just spewing talking points that you read on a website?
Specifically, can you demonstrate to us how "the government shields the drug companies from all liability" as well as when "the supreme court has ruled that vaccines are unsafe by design"?
It's the suites that bother me, AdamG; I had no idea my sofa could be so two-faced ;-)
Did you know that peanut butter is also "unsafe by design"? That's because the meaning of that legal phrase is simply "this product has some inherent risks, however small they may be, even when the product has been manufactured exactly according to the design and used exactly according to directions." In the case of peanut butter, there are always going to be people who have a peanut allergy and don't know it. If they open a jar of peanut butter and start snacking they're going to be in very serious medical danger. Do you think the manufacturer of the peanut butter should be held liable for anything that ensues in such a situation, when there is no possible way they could have made a peanut-based product that didn't contain a danger for those with peanut allergies?
(And yes, I know that DK is a hit-and-run spammer who posted the exact same text to several websites today that had nothing in common except that they mentioned vaccines. Perhaps he's a Scientologist trying to drive up his "numbers.")
Where is the PROOF that mercury, aluminum and other adjutants to vaccines are safe, just because you say so? Vaccines are NOT SAFE and the science is BAD as well. Medicine under the guise and lIE of evolution theories is as stupid as it comes. Risks are necessary for health - says who? God or you? God is not a hypocrite, you are the hypocrite! We do not need your DRUG PUSHING and we DO NOT NEED vaccines or the medicine you push! Only the dumb fearful sheep fall for your scams and lies that risks are necessary for health!
Ellen:
Actually, it is up to you to now show us that they are not safe. Please post the title, journal and date of the PubMed indexed studies that support your contention that vaccines are more dangerous than the diseases.
Really, who said that? It would be more accurate to say that everything you do has a risk. There is even a risk that you will roll out of bed as you sleep.
Oh, goody. Please tell us with real evidence of how treating measles is so much cheaper than preventing it with two MMR vaccines. Tell us exactly how much safer it is to actually get the disease than two injections. To help you answer these questions I suggest you read The Clinical Significance of Measles: A Review. I am particularly interested in how the MMR vaccine is more dangerous and more expensive than pneumonia and encephalitis.
@ellen
Illogically angry much?
It would be truly dumb to suggest that measles, pertussis and HIB meningitis have no risks. I prefer the lower risks of vaccines to the very much higher risks of the diseases they prevent. I also like knowing that I am doing my bit to protect the vulnerable who can't be vaccinated against these diseases. If being able to make an informed decision based on understanding relative risks and benefits makes me a dumb fearful sheep, then baaa!
Ellen,
Are you saying that NH is right because God says it is and that science based medicine is wrong, regardless of what the science says?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/, search for "vaccine adjuvant safety." 1340 hits. Have fun!
I wouldn't mess with "Ellen" because she has a special relationship with God. Perhaps "Ellen" could provide the verse in the bible that addresses vaccines, for the ungodly among us.
So God is anti-vaccine, now? That's an interesting development.
Could you ask him what his opinion is of aspirin, Ellen? We're all waiting with bated breath.