Couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy

Gotta love this guy:
"Scripture also says 'Render unto Caesar what Caesar demands.' And right now, Caesar demands a building permit," County Commission Chairman Mike Whitehead said.

But these people literally translate the Bible remember. They're gonna go with the specific Caesar Jesus was talking about. The Only Caeser they are required by jesus to render anything to was a ruler from thousands of years ago, hence they can't render him anything and are scott free.

Uh- This probably could have been worded a little better....

Owners of the park, which shows how dinosaurs may have roamed the Earth just a few thousand years ago, did not obtain a building permit before constructing the building in 2002.

use of the words "purports", or "claims" would have been appropriate.

Ivan

From Matthew 25:29
"For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath."

Seems like the IRS-CID is just following scripture. Since Hovind doesn't have (according to him) a taxable income, US citizenship, or ownership of the Church, he shouldn't have any problem with the Feds taking away "that which he hath" -- freedom. By throwing the nut in jail.

BTW, another relevant piece from Exodus 22:21 (how'd you miss this one PZ):
"Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt."

Sure sounds to me like he was vexing Scott Schneider when given the warrant.

I was beginning to think that the US legal system had become so corrupt (eg by religion) that it wasn't going to do anything to stop Hovind et al getting away with breaking the law. However, I'm not sure you are right about being in prison really being a way of stopping people like Hovind from doing harm. It's designed to stop certain physical actions from taking place. Where the issue is more mental, eg with him spreading that malicious stupidity, he'll have adequate communications with followers to continue doing that.

If only they could make it a stipulation of building permits for theme parks and such "museums" that the exhibits within them must present valid scientific concepts.

I'm not sure you are right about being in prison really being a way of stopping people like Hovind from doing harm. It's designed to stop certain physical actions from taking place. Where the issue is more mental, eg with him spreading that malicious stupidity, he'll have adequate communications with followers to continue doing that.

I disagree. If the IRS wipes out Hovind, seizes his property, and plops him in a medium-security prison for 3 years (entirely possible), it's the end of his career. I doubt whether anyone else could quite replace him.

Let's all hope that malicious stupidity is never illegal in this country.

If we made stupidity illegal, we wouldn't need any other crimes. That pretty much covers everything.

If the IRS wipes out Hovind, seizes his property, and plops him in a medium-security prison for 3 years (entirely possible), it's the end of his career. I doubt whether anyone else could quite replace him.

He'll be a "martyr" and will use that to attempt to get support from non-crazy Christian groups -- and this has worked before with the nutty right.

I was beginning to think that the US legal system had become so corrupt (eg by religion) that it wasn't going to do anything to stop Hovind et al getting away with breaking the law.

Florida is trying to give parks like his (and how many are there in Florida) a pass on taxes. Coincidence?

Posting this in the comments as trackbacks here to typepad aren't working.

He'll be a "martyr" and will use that to attempt to get support from non-crazy Christian groups -- and this has worked before with the nutty right.

I'm still not convinced. While many of his hillbilly followers will say he's a martyr with a straight face, Hovind's con-man sliminess is so loud and obvious I can't see non-crazy Christian groups coming to his defense. Besides, martyrdom works best if you can make out a case that the 'other side' martyred you. The IRS pounds on anyone, regardless of race, creed, religion, or national origin. It's mostly the militia loonies who fixate on the IRS. They just want their money.

Florida is trying to give parks like his (and how many are there in Florida) a pass on taxes. Coincidence?

Again, Florida may be corrupt enough to want to give a pass on outfits like that (tho I'm not seeing that here), but believe me, the IRS doesn't give a shit about any of that.

Florida is trying to give parks like his (and how many are there in Florida) a pass on taxes. Coincidence?

Link? Because I find it hard to believe that Disney, one of the biggest landowners (and thus taxpayers) in Florida would get on board with that unless there's a sweet give-back to them.

If Hovind claims he is a Florida citizen and not a US citizen, shouldn't he have to have a Florida passport and a visa to enter any other part of the USA, or will he get illegal alien amnesty if Congress finally passes the immigration bill? :-)

Mnemosyne,

Here's a link to a news story on the Biblical theme park tax break legislation -- although it's not directed toward Hovind's operation, I don't see any problem with a guy like Hovind making the case that his park (perhaps slightly modified) fit the requirements.

The IRS pounds on anyone, regardless of race, creed, religion, or national origin.

Do they? How come they're investigating only liberal churches and ignoring conservative churches for supposed violations of church's in politics?

And we've seen over the years even such people as Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell getting support from mainstream churches -- even Rev. Moon has gotten such support during his tax problems (one time the IRS actually did go after a rightwing church nut -- something I can't imagine happening with today's administration [see above paragraph]).

Remember that you and I, and probably everyone who reads this blog, know a considerable amount about Hovind than most people would -- I'd wager I could walk into more than half the churches in the USA and get the congregation all worked up about the "wrong" done to Hovind in this case. I'd just not mention most of his background and beliefs, and present him as a Christian martyr -- with very little info, just a bald statement. Given how little most people try to confirm or deny (using a reasonable source) info they hear it'd be easy. And it will be done.

I disagree. If the IRS wipes out Hovind, seizes his property, and plops him in a medium-security prison for 3 years (entirely possible), it's the end of his career. I doubt whether anyone else could quite replace him.

Posted by: george cauldron | April 8, 2006 11:26 AM

I know a who spent a few years in a medium security prison. He was an attorney who embezzled over $250,000 out of a trust fund.

He's now an artist manager and has a stable of Gospel Music groups. He also makes the Sunday Evangelical Church-Talk circuit and pulls in about $50K of "Love Offerings" a year telling his story of falling and being redeemed. The evangelicals eat it up.

He's a liar and the only thing that keeps him "straight and narrow" is fear of being anally raped again.

And let's not forget Chuck Colson.

Hovind vs. dozens of scientists whose frauds have hurt science more than anything or anyone else. Yep. You've really got him backed against the wall.

Maybe Hovind will invoke a plague of Bombardier beetles upon Florida.

JMcH:

Hovind vs. dozens of scientists whose frauds have hurt science more than anything or anyone else. Yep. You've really got him backed against the wall.

Right, because it's the scientists who are fucking up science for the rest of us. By that logic, Christians are the ones who are fucking up Christianity.

Actually, that's not an entirely unreasonable claim.

JMcH:

Hovind vs. dozens of scientists whose frauds have hurt science more than anything or anyone else. Yep. You've really got him backed against the wall.

But I thought Behe was more or less on the same side as Hovind...

See, this is why they want tax exemption for Bible parks. You can't get by with evading taxes forever, but if the state will give you the right to not pay them it solves the whole inconvenient problem. ;) lol

Hovind busted? Yes! There is a God! (Um, wait: no there isn't). I was feeling a bit depressed about the Pianka-Mims affair -- this more than makes up for it.

As for Hovind making a post-prison comeback (assuming they manage to nail him good): comparisons to Colson aren't necessarily apt. Colson is the classic "crook who saw the light in his jail cell" story -- that he was bad BC is integral to the message. Hovind, however, is already a very public Christian evangelist, and having him take a serious fall damages him. The better comparison is Jim Bakker: he's still around, but no where near as prominent as he used to be.

As someone else once said, Hovind is hilarious. Locking him up would deprive us of a freaky-fringe-fundy-fool, sure, but also of an undeniably talented, albeit (mostly)unintentional, comedian!

Here's the evidence:

"Fertility is inherited. If your parents don't have any kids, YOU won't either..."

"My watch does not tell the time. You have to look at it...."

"No wonder Eden was a paradise! Adam didn't have a mother-in-law! Haha, no I'm joking. My wife had a wonderful mother-in-law...."

holding picture of his wife aloft"This is my wife. Well, OK, it's not my wife, it's just a picture of her."

"To claim that cyanide is always poisonous is simply not logical. [.....] The cyanide found in fruit seeds is good for you. I eat apricot seeds all the time and have never had a problem...."

"Noah was 600 when he built that boat! He was smart enough to figure out you don't need adult dino's, just babies. Just be sure to get a pink one and a blue one...."

"....there may not be any other stars in the solar system that have planets around them..."

holding KJV Bible aloftI believe this book from cover to cover. I even believe the cover on mine. It says "Kent Hovind". I believe that, too...."

A message from Hovind (click on the "Important Message" link at the top) on the issue suggests various ways the issue over permits could be resolved--all by this opponents capitulating--but, failing those, he suggests that "God can stop this II Kings 1 style in zero seconds!"

What does that mean? Well, the chapter of the Bible he's referencing is where Elijah proves he his "a man of God" by calling down fire from the heavens:

"If I am a man of God," Elijah replied, "may fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty men!" Then the fire of God fell from heaven and consumed him and his fifty men.

Besides the fact that Hovind now appears to consider himself to be alongside one of the Old Testament greats, doesn't that come close to being some kind a death threat?

"Besides the fact that Hovind now appears to consider himself to be alongside one of the Old Testament greats, doesn't that come close to being some kind a death threat?"

Only if the threat was credible...and he wasn't insane.

How many of the other bigwigs in the Christian Right consider Hovind a pillar of their cause?

I would put up $250,000 to see God help Hovind's cause, but I do not have that much money. On his cseblogs.com, he says he will not submit. In that blog he misspells thoughts as "thots," Mary as "Marry" and Anabaptists as "Anna-Baptists."

Aw, comeon, people don't go to jail for stuff like this. They pay fines and/or have their property taken and sold. The biggest real estate agent in your county is the sheriff. You can't get blood from a stone. Or a turnip. Much as many (Me too, yay) would like to see this guy roast, it ain't gonna happen. It will make him a martyr. That's a whole other story, kinda like being elevated to sainthood after a long bout of suffering at the hands of Pilate and his merry men.

Aw, comeon, people don't go to jail for stuff like this.

They do for tax evasion. Mwahahahahahahahaha!

Only if the threat was credible...and he wasn't insane.

The DHS just arrested a mental patient for suggesting that it wouldn't be a bad idea to chop off Bush's dick.

Aw, comeon, people don't go to jail for stuff like this.

Hey, it's how they finally put Al Capone in the slammer.

Coming soon "Chicxulub Adventure Land"