Take note of that name, just in case. This ambitious young zealot might just be a future president of the Christian States of America (in which case, look for me at my new home in Australia).
More likely, though, he'll be one of those desperate men in shabby suits handing out bizarre political pamphlets at the mall, wondering why his life is such a sad sack of futility. But you never know! Maybe he'll be incredibly successful, and instead end up cowering in a bunker with a pistol, wondering why his life is such a sad sack of futility.
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Sack????
One of the doctrines from the Young Christian Leaders Alliance is this one:
This kid won honors in an essay contest? What does that mean? Deciding over your conscience? If your conscience tells you one thing, you can go against it if you want? As a matter of principle?
I think he meant to write that individuals are naturally free to make decisions "according to" their own consciences, but I'm not sure. Given the context and the fact that conservative Christians often have a horror of using their "own" understanding, it might be a reference to overriding your personal distaste for committing atrocities, should God command it of His Army during the coming Armageddon.
A bunch of kids, one with a weapon, being bossed around by a teen in a brownshirt. The photos are just sad. But the ideas R. Josiah Magnuson spews are scary.
The happy fact is most people like R. Josiah Magnuson never rise to have authority over most of the population. But in cases of social upheaval, they are waiting to put their chains on us.
Right now, I feel safe enough to laugh at the fool.
Oh my dog.
My sad Boy Scout group in rural TN had better props. The honor guard thing is pretty creepy, though. And for some reason, the picture of the girl playing violin wigged me out, although I can't quite put my finger on why...
"...the picture of the girl playing violin wigged me out, although I can't quite put my finger on why...
A slightly dressed up, lipstick on a pig, Deliverance tribute? I think that young Master Magnuson would make a perfect Republican Congressional page...What a freak...
So, as I was just pointing out on the wrong thread:
Did you know that when the Constitution says 'no religious tests for office,' it actually means 'some religious tests for office?'
Fascinating.
If I can just veer slightly into paranoia for a second: that right there is the single best argument for liberal/atheist/rational Americans owning guns. If you don't, only the nutbags will, and trust me, they'll have no compunction whatever about shooting you when it comes time to establish Jesus' kingdom on Earth.
Given that I've just been rereading Asimov's The Caves of Steel for the Nth time, when I saw the name "R. Josiah Magnuson" I immediately assumed the fellow in question was a robot.
Australia? PZ, those aussies are right behind the US in christian kooks. My potential future citizenship is New Zealand.
Australia? Come on! You should better come to Europe. We've got Richard Dawkins, remember? Australia on the other hand has Creation Ministries International. We've also got more people than sheep (unlike Australia.). As you see, Europe is the place to go! ;)
Mom: "Look honey, our little Josiah has started his own fringe cult! Kids are so cute!"
Dad: "Well, it's healthier than the things he was doing to those squirrels last week..."
On an unrelated note: Australia?! Come on, a little ways north there's a perfectly good liberal country you can come live in...the climate is probably not that much worse than Minnesota. Plus, no box-jellyfish, or dingos to threaten your offspring!
PBC.
What fascinates me is... where did that kid pick up the cultural cues for the uniform? Is it just a Cub/Boy scout thing, or is consciously using the brown-shirt reference? The uniform, the rifles, the flag backdrop... agh!
At the risk of Godwining the thread, and maybe because the whole thing with the kids is so comical (instead of the deadly serious historical background), it immediately reminded me of Henry Gibson in the first Blues Brothers movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGp7IFc5jbc&mode=related&search=
Yeah, exactly. Well, except that it's quite a lot of countries, actually. And it's not only a little ways north but about 16.000km [that's roughly 10.000 miles for all you none-metric heathens ;)] north-west (Sydney - Brussels).
@ #13:
I meant north of PZ, i.e. Canada....not north of Australia. Mea culpa, I should have been clearer about that.
Also, Canada's heathen's are 100% metric!! And there are a lot of us!
PBC.
I am not sure being an atheist prevents your life from being a sad sack of futility. I am an atheist and biologist but escaping futility is nearly impossible for 99.9% of us. Sad sack..I don't know... thats your judgment.
That's an interesting thing that foldedpath brought up. Godwin's law isn't exactly a law -- more like a good rule of thumb. First of all, it says that the probability of the Nazis being mentioned in a discussion thread approaches 1 as the length of the thread approaches infinity. (In that formulation, Godwin's law applies to penguins, apples, and Anabaptists, too.) A common corollary of Godwin's law is the notion that a thread may as well come to an end after Nazis are cited in any way, the argument having run its course. This is often true because things may have reached the screaming level by the time Hitler and Nazism have been invoked, so any further debate is fruitless.
All that said, Godwin's law does not speak to whether the invocation of Hitler and his philosophy is appropriate. As you can readily see from my post, I didn't hesitate a moment to make the comparison, using two Hitler Youth posters and the term "brown shirt" in my discussion of the YCLA and its charismatic young leader (or Führer). This is a case where the stormtrooper boot fits very well.
We will make you welcome, PZ (at least those of us who aren't raving godbags), but I sure hope we won't have to for this reason. That kid is scary (in a sad, pathetic kind of way).
Commence 250 day countdown to meth and gay prostitutes.
Actually, it pretty much will end one of two ways. Either as CJ said, or the zealot will blow something up or gun someone down. People like Magnuson tend to drive themselves straight into a religious-fueled paranoia.
May I recommend my home city of Canberra. You'll be able to gain a position at the Australian National University in no time at all. It does have quite a good, and large science department. And it has 2 biology faculties one dedicated to biotechnology and molecular biology(BAMBI) and one for botany and zoology (bozo)
And then i'd be able to take some of your subjects :D
Don't listen to the haters, finding creationists in Australia is actually quiet difficult, I think they get more international publicity than national. Though admittedly there no shortage of jesus phreaks standing in the middle of campus trying to tell you how rad their non existant 1/3rd of a deity back when he was was(n't) alive.
But maybe I've just lucky, and have been surrounded mostly by atheists and the otherwise irreligious for most of my life.
Why would I leave Bush's America to go to Howard's Australia? Which is the bigger fundie fuck up?
Um bush. howard just blindly follow bush's lead. plus with election coming up (for both of us) it not a problem we'll have to worry about for much longer. Oh i forgot to mention ACT is Australia's least religious state/terrritory according to last year census.
I looked at the whole site and it appears to me to be a bunch of Christian/libertarian kids who are being homeschooled in South Carolina, and adult supervision seems to be sadly lacking, although musical instruments and computers have been well supplied. These kids are pushing Ron Paul for President. Nuff said? It is possible that the teenaged blogger does not realize that all his content is going out to the whole net, but thinks that he has set up a private blog. I hope that these pretty children don't attract some real perverts.
It is hard for me to tell from the photos if the guns are BB guns or toys; would some of you guys take a close look at that? If you think that the guns are real, I will notify the child protection authorities in South Carolina.
I wonder where the parents are?
On Iraq, sure. But my Jewish Aussie cousin-in-law isn't too fond of the direction Howard has taken the country on more than a few domestic issues. We've both got fucked up leaders, and both nations will be better of when we dump them.
I feel bad for the girls.
It looked really creepy how the girls looked so subservient even to the little christian youths.
Uh, actually, MartinM, he's probably right. The constitution, including the 1st amendment, only applied to the federal government originally. It wasn't until the 14th amendment with its incorporation was passed that the bill of rights started getting applied to the states. So, yes, states were free to have their own official churches and religious tests for office.
Yeah, hopefully our future government can actually provide its people rather than just its corporations with services that benefit them. This instead of trying to sell them all off into the private sector (including education).
I've given up hope of our government doing that, since even our Democratic Party has bought the bullshit neoliberal consensus. We're fucked. Good luck to you down under!
so a bunch of kids playing at being prophets in their attic. Mom and dad must have been in on it, because after the meeting, they "went downstairs for pizza and refreshments." Oh, and they gave eachother DOOR PRIZES during the meeting.
they seem to have quite a few different weblogs going, including Liberty in Law
They've been righting up articles, laws and rules left and right...
aww... no sniggering at the leader...
Snort. Seriously, Australia has its own wackos, just not as bad. What we need to do is wait for the Repugnirats to global warm us to the point where Antarctica becomes livable, then move all the sane people there. Its far enough away from most every place else that we could at least see them coming easily, long before they got there, when which ever group of loonies won and decided to "convert" the last batch of unconverted people. By then, hopefully they will have spent enough time blowing each other up that we will have built the equivalent of the flying Atlantis city from Stargate Atlantis and we won't be there anyway, when they show up looking for us. lol
One can dream right?
Have no worries on that account, Elizabeth. Josiah has been out on the Web for some time and knows his way around it. He thinks he's a cutting-edge creationist and has posted many warmed-over versions of hoary anti-evolution arguments in the past. (My friend PiD wasted quite a bit of time trying to engage Josiah in actual debate, but the boy has already mastered most of the creationist debate-avoidance techniques. Sure, he argues, but he's always moving the ball around.)
Within a day or two, Josiah will undoubtedly be bragging about the big jump in his hit rate this weekend because of the notice taken here on Pharyngula. He's going to thank Jesus instead of PZ, though. Seems unfair.
I swear, I only picked Australia because it was as far as possible from Mr Magnuson's fascist state. I also can't pick Canada, because don't you think the tanks would be rolling across the border right away?
I don't know who said it, but it fits here:
"It's a shame the things you see when you don't have a flamethrower."
Holy creeping shit. That's the most pathetic and depressing thing imaginable. What, here's a young man in his late teens, should be diving into life, getting educated, and experiencing the world, and he's playing Pretend Nazi Militia with his younger siblings??? WTF is wrong with these people???
PZ: "I also can't pick Canada, because don't you think the tanks would be rolling across the border right away?"
Fortunately for us Canadians, I'd wager that a large % of the American public (present company excepted) can't find us on a map anyway!!
Then again.....
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/EDUCATION/11/20/geography.quiz/
maybe that's a small comfort.
I do worry about the coming invasion from time to time...eventually our natural resources are going to get us in trouble one way or the other.
PBC.
If this guy ever grows out of this behavior, he's going to need YEARS of therapy.
Maybe we should start a "send Josiah to a psychiatrist" fund.
Dear Professor Myers,
I for one would gladly welcome our squid-aligned, marine-invertebrate-inducing overlords (inasmuch as I'm prepared to accept any authority figure). Speaking for myself, I'd be pleased - nay, INORDINATELY pleased, to have you in this country, good sir.
Yes, Howard is another one of those politicians who either is a religious whacko, or at least plays up to them (specifically, he's been kinda-linked to a group called the Exclusive Brethren).
However although the trend might be changing, Australia as a whole is still laid-back enough to laugh at most things - including especially, EXCESSIVE religion.
Howard, it should be pointed out, claimed a week ago that he would certainly fight on for another term in office. He has since dropped a wee bit of a bombshell saying that even so, he would abdicate (is that the right term?) partway through his term to make way for the deputy, Mr Peter Costello. Needless to say, this has led to speculations that the Howard Liberal party ain't doing too well.
Furthermore, add to that an opposition leader who has a better credibility that most of the opposition leaders of the last decade (even though I kinda liked Kim Beazly), Kevin Rudd (and I take no particular pride of any kind that he also happens to be my local member, I couldn't care much less).
Look, I'm lucky if I get to have an argument a YEAR with a strongly religious person. Yes, I got door-knocked by a Jehovah's Witness yesterday morning, but it was my girlfriend who ended up interrupting us after I'd roped the guy (and the poor-but-already-brainwashed child he had in tow) into a 90-minute discussion where he'd already had to defend the Council of Nicaea and errors in the Bible.
I kept up the discussion in the hope the (eight year old?) child would start asking her "elders" questions afterward. Sadly, she's the one who handed him a pamphlet to pass on to me near the end ("Why You Can Trust The Bible"). That felt like a bit of a defeat, but it hepled that I had my last "Why Do You Believe In God?" pamphlet nearby.
See Professor, there's still a little bit of the whetstone on which you could sharpen your wit around here, but not so much you'd be drowning in creationist crap. Yes, I'm sure Canada's a lovely place, but hey - we've even got the Chaser around here. Come 'round our way (especially sunny east coast Queensland and Brisbane) and I swear publicly your very first drop of available preference is on me.
And if you see Professor Dawkins, he's equally welcome.
pz meyer, you insignificant "parrot" of fully unsubstantiated crap. And you are a "COWARD" as well. You or you intern propogandists eliminate my posts from your pathetic forum, because you are so concerned about preserving your beloved philosophical pre-suppositions and maintaining your status of "savior" with the vast amount of "wishful thinking" individuals that cherish their vastly unsupported assertions regarding living systems, that you fully and incomprehensibly, in public, nonetheless, continue to assert. without any kind of (what any reasonably well informed individual would expect to be presented with) even close to being considered significant evidential matter in order to buy into what really is your massively personal philosophical preferential treatment of REAL SCIENCE!!!!!!!
You should be TOTALLY ASHAMED OF YOURSELF YOU PHILOSOPHICAL BIGOT AND COWARD!!!!! By the way, I know this post has very little chance of making it to your forum where you continue to feed your adoring followers with an amazing array of proportionally hugely and vastly insignificant data filtered through your special "lenses" of personal philosophically driven personal preferences. (you dumb shit) I dare you to post this you chicken shit!!!!!!!!!
In case you foreign language-inhibited folks out there wonder what the Hitler poster in the link says, here goes:
Top: The youth serve the fuhrer
Bottom: All teenagers in the Hitler Jugend (HJ = Hitler Youth).
Neal, is that a joke?
It must be, because you seem to have the wingnut sentence structure down to such an absurd perfection.
phat
Neal. Settle down. Have a seat and take some deep breaths. There now. Do you feel better now?
Funny how you think this was not going to be posted. Why is that? Is it because you would not let any of us evil atheist types post on your forum. (Assuming you have one.)
Here is a reason why your post probably will not be deleted, too many of us here get a good laugh from it. And I doubt PZ is so thin skinned that he feels threatehed by your ranting.
One more thing, just because you feel a need for a savior, no not assume that we also feel we need one. Speaking for myself, I do not see PZ as a savior. I just happen to like this site.
Neal.
Why would PZ censor you?
You're a riot! You give everyone a good laugh and make us all feel alot smarter.
Please, never stop posting.
THE ALL CAPS ARE GENIUS.
Somebody (I won't say who) is hogging all the commas.
I want a lapel badge with 'intern propagandist' on it.
Not recommended. Australia doesn't have a very good track record when it comes to refugees seeking political asylum.
It could be a good thing if Canada invaded the States to do some regime change by introducing democracy and healthcare; and putting the current regime on trial for war crimes.
Ahh, I was wondering what became of this future recipient of a Dustin Brand Atomic Wedgie. I tried to set him straight on the Jeans criterion a while back, but to no avail. Math does not work on the weak minded. I should have been a Sith Lord instead.
Holy hell.
Японский Бог! =:-O
Once again, I am reminded of Nehemiah Scudder.
Neal needs a good talking-to.
Please come back Neal, for a moment there my IQ was starting to rise. Gotta be a few spare full stops around here somewhere.. ... Found em. ....
phleabo: I'd argue that it's the SECOND best reason for us to own guns. #1 has got to be that it's damn fun to shoot stuff.
Australia? Go for Scandinavia. Though here nobody will be very worked up about your views on religion and the origin of species, which may be a drawback. (-;
Funny. This Neal fellow asserts that PZ is a coward, even though PZ discloses his full name, profession and where he lives through his site. Neal on the other hand posts totally anonymously. Yup, textbook example of cowardice.
Perhaps Neal thinks PZ is a coward because he (Neal) hasn't seen the relevant information... which is conveniently located in the upper left corner of this site, right above the big, striking, scarlet A. That would also explain why he can't even spell "Myers" correctly.
So what is it Neal, are you just dishonest and blind, or are you dishonest and stupid?
Wow, this little twit is still at it. I almost forgot about him after the Chapman circus left town.
It's a truly sad affair. He comes across as a generally bright kid, but he's been thoroughly brainwashed by his parents and AiG.
OEJ
The true believers will also have no compunction whatever about dying in the process. You can't deter a suicidal maniac. So, if anything, invest in a bulletproof vest and a helmet.
No, all 10-year-olds.
The composer and librettist of "Cabaret" missed a wonderful opportunity for irony when they put "Tomorrow Belongs to Me" in the mouth of one of the Hitler Youth. It should have been sung by someone in the SA -- on the eve of The Night of the Long Knives.
Regarding Neal, caps lock is cruise control for cool.
for some reason, Neal just reminded me of a pissed of Pivar. Same style of incoherent ranting and saying nothing.
Kseniya wrote:
... "Japanese God"??
Neal,
In all that gibberish I could only make out a couple of things. One, you use the words "crap" and "shit" quite a bit. You are either too good of a Christian to use really bad cuss words or you are scatologically well endowed.
Two, you charge PZ with concerning himself with "maintaining your status of "savior" with the vast amount of "wishful thinking" individuals". Just what the hell is he a savior of? Certainly not death like your Jebus. And what is "wishful thinking" about realizing the truth of our mortality and the fact that the real world is vastly more interesting than a fantasy world and a fake blissful afterlife. It seems that you are projecting your "shit" on to PZ. Maybe you are the real wishful thinker, n'est-ce pas?
Neal's generous use of quote marks somehow reminded me of...
sharks with "laser" beams attached to their heads, and...
We're surrounded by liquid hot "magma".
I wonder if Neal's testicles were ritualistically shaved at the age of fourteen by a Zoroastrian named Vilma...
Why do these kids have the flag of Somalia in the back drop of their little rally? This is all very confusing.
"Australia? PZ, those aussies are right behind the US in christian kooks."
Um, Australia is much less religious than the United States.
The reason you see Aussie fundamentalists like Ken Hamm over here is because he wouldn't be nearly so popular in Australia - and perhaps more importantly for him - he wouldn't make nearly as much money.
Re: #8 "... when I saw the name "R. Josiah Magnuson" I immediately assumed the fellow in question was a robot."
Ha! So did I, so much so that I was puzzled when there were no robot references.
GMTA.
-- CV
Shades of Robert Heinlein's "If This Goes On..."?
"If this Goes on--". In this novel, the U.S. is a theocratic dictatorship led by the Prophet Incarnate, a descendant of a television evangelist. It comes complete with stoning of heretics (anyone from a different religion) and an Inquisition. A naive and pious recruit into the Prophet's elite guard is led astray when he realizes what the Prophet really wants from troupe of "Holy Virgins." The young man is forced to flee and becomes involved in revolution against the Prophet. This story is often considered Heinlein's warning about threats to freedom. But it also stands on its own as its bumbling hero grows into his role.
The only reason we Americans can't find Canada on a map is that we don't have maps, so there!
Given PZ's love of weird and wonderful animals, I'm surprised he's not here in Australia already. We have the irukandji jellyfish, the blue-ringed octopus, most of the worlds deadliest snakes, the funnel-web spider, and saltwater crocodiles. He should love it here. We have a song here called "Come to Australia, you might accidently get killed," although it usually only happens to people who ignore the warnings or provoke the animals. So we're contributing to evolution by killing off the stupid (home-grown and tourists alike).
I can vouch for Canberra as a great city for an atheist. I have lived here for 4 years now and I have never been approached by or door-knocked by any faith, despite living behind a church. I have had a good laugh at the scientologists with their stress tests in the mall though.
Yes, I think we're a long way behind the States in religious nutbaggery. Even the moderates keep their heads down. Personally I know only two regular church-goers and one is a friend in America! The other is my Greek migrant mother-in-law. In my 41 years that's not a high number, and I live in the second largest city in the country. Maybe I should get out more...
Elizabeth (#23):
The guns appear to be BB guns to me.
Child protective services...South Carolina...over a BB gun? They'd laugh at you; deservedly so in my opinion.
BTW, a significant number (at least 40% by my estimate) of libertarians are atheist or agnostic, and even theist libertarians are hugely sensitive to religious freedom and separation of church and state issues. We may not be a constituency you like, but we are one that you need.
Cheers!
Hi, everyone! I appreciate the traffic from your links. Hope your "fears" will be calmed about the YCLA being neo-Nazi or pro-Bush... we are certainly not either. And no, the flag we used is not from Somolia. It is the "Bonnie Blue" flag of Southern history, standing for unity, independence, and justice. Thanks again!
From Josiah
Was the local shop out of Confederate Flags, then? I have some extra bedsheets, if you'd like them for your *ahem* Heritage Rallies.
I, David M. A., former vice-president and officer of the Young Christians Leader's Alliance (YCLA), do by this writing; officially denounce any public association with the YCLA. I do not hold any association with the YCLA as an organization, and although I believe the YCLA was founded with good intentions, I have forsaken the absurd, heretical, political and theological philosophies promoted by the YCLA. I do not necessarily endorse any ideas, doctrines, documents, persons, candidates, or other material created or promoted by the YCLA. I remain in the fundamental beliefs that I held before association with the YCLA.
David M. A.
The true believers will also have no compunction whatever about dying in the process. You can't deter a suicidal maniac. So, if anything, invest in a bulletproof vest and a helmet.
No, all 10-year-olds.