Return Ben Stein's Money

Out of interest, is Franken an atheist?

Even us atheists are happy to allow you to worship your god however you want. We do object to the fact that the right-wing fruitcakes think we should also worship your god however you want. [Emphasis mine.]

Little gems like this are one of the reasons that I read this blog.

PZ, I think you're putting emphasis on the wrong relationship between Franken and Stein: As a political matter, I don't think Franken should be returning any legal donations, regardless of provenance. But I am disappointed that Franken counts Stein as a friend. I choose my friends carefully and I'd never hang out with a right-wing moron like Stein.

I don't know who Nick and Jessica are either, so I certainly haven't felt any compulsion to worship them

Nick Lachey and Jessica Simpson--referring to the reality show they had while they were still married and "popular."

Franken is Jewish, too.

Ben must have lost Article VI from his copy of the Constitution. "... no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States"

No one thinks much about this clause anymore. But these few words truly helped shape the nation.

I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish.

I suppose he'd believe that if he's a creationist.

For better or worse Christmas has been completely corporatized to the point that this atheist doesn't mind saying the words, Merry Christmas, anymore than he does Happy Halloween.

When that time of year rolls around I sometimes respond to "Merry Christmas" with a hearty "Happy Mithrais" just to see the puzzled expression on faces.

Cappy: That's great!

But how do you pronounce "Mithrais"?

Ah, but there are lots of people who are both Jews and atheists.

"Happy Winter Solstice" also works well.

To quote mine Stein....

"I think people who believe in God are sick ... and I don't like it being shoved down my throat."

Exactly!

Let Franken keep the money and be friends with that jerk-off Ben Stien. There are two ways this friendship might change the friends. Ben might dumb Franken down and turn him into an idiot. Franken might slowly educate Ben so he is not so much of an idiot. I put my (and Ben's) money on Franken, he is clearly at this point smarter.

This atheist has no problem with Xmas trees either. Heck, I love Xmas, always have. Does that make me a secret Christian? No more than enjoying halloween means that I believe in 'ghosties and ghoulies, and things that go bump in the night' or celebrating Bonfire night (5th Nov in UK) means that I am happy that Guido Fawkes didn't successfully blow up parliament!

All of these events, at least in the UK, are now mainly sociocultural celebrations. We do it because we have always done it, our friends and neighbours do it and hey, the kids enjoy it. Do my kids know what they are about? Sure, I have told them that they are all historical remembrances; in the case of bonfire night we celebrate the failed attempt at destroying parliament. Halloween, that people used to believe in the supernatural and for Xmas I explain the pagan origins and subsequent religious hijacking.

Doesn't mean I can't still enjoy the kids dressing up in Oct, lighting fireworks by a bonfire in Nov or exchanging gifts in Dec.

Does it?

For better or worse Christmas has been completely corporatized to the point that this atheist doesn't mind saying the words, Merry Christmas, anymore than he does Happy Halloween.

I'm old enough to remember when Christians got their panties in a twist about how secular Christmas had become, and how stores were exploiting it for financial gain and thus despoiling the "true meaning" of Christmas. Now if Wal-Mart greeters don't say "Merry Christmas" to shoppers buying all sorts of crap for the holiday, it is somehow an attack on religion. I just don't get it.

Another question: Is Bono supporting Expelled, or are they just using his photo to promote the movie?

http://www.expelledthemovie.com/bigscienceacademy_expelled.php

I just love how Bill O'Reilly spouting off at the mouth has created this whole mythical "War on Christmas". My wife works in retail and all last Christmas people were saying "Merry Christmas" to her like it was meant as an INSULT since her company's corporate policy is to say "Happy Holidays". My wife being the ever-so-patient woman that she is cheerfully replies Merry Christmas back (I usually respond with Happy Hanukkah because I am not ever-so-patient).

This atheist has no problem with Xmas trees either.

Not least of all because it isn't a Christian symbol. Well, the fir tree part of it is, since that's what St. Boniface magically caused to spring from the stump of the old sacrificial oak at Geismar.

I used to do a lot of set and mural type building for my Warhammer 40,000 stuff, and I still have most of it hanging around. I think I'll make a St. Boniface disemboweled and hanging from the oak with some ravens picking at him and vikings standing around cheering.

Then I'll take a picture and send it to Bill O'Reilly. If he thought the atheist war on Christmas was bad, he'll faint when he's plunged into the Heathen war on Christmas.

Mithrais almost rhymes with Christmas, slightly longer a sound.

Now if Wal-Mart greeters don't say "Merry Christmas" to shoppers buying all sorts of crap for the holiday, it is somehow an attack on religion. I just don't get it.

I do. If Wal-Mart greeters don't say "Merry Christmas," they're not being sufficiently culturally correct for the funnymentalists. It has nothing much to do with "corporatisation" or commercial gain; it's all about expanding (their) religion even further into the public sphere, so it becomes a) normalised, and b) impossible to escape. (Incidentally, this is why right-wingers are always down on the left for being "enforcers of political correctness." They're trying to do it far worse than we are, except they're using a different politics. Don't forget, these people project like Cheap Tuesday at the Cineplex.)

For what it's worth, I happen to love Halloween, but Christmas just bugs the shit out of me. If I have to hear that set of the same damn fifteen Christmas carols (many of which are actually lovely -- and secular -- dance tunes from the Middle Ages and Renaissance that got coopted by the ever-culturally-correct Victorians) one more time, I'm going to go postal.

I personally like responding to "Merry Christmas!" with "Happy Yule!" I've gotten some priceless looks from Salvation Army mendicants doing that.

the rules for baseball are secular.

Now you're just talking smack. Some of us still remember the Great Designated Hitter Schism.

On the upside, news that Ben Stein has donate money to his good friend, Al Franken, that well known pinko communist comedian from Minnesota, is dismaying the wingnuts and IDiots no end.

Reginald Selkirk:

Clearly, PZ hasn't been reading any Stephen Jay Gould lately.

Oh well, wot did we expect form Ben? Maybe he should rewatch Ferris and realize that he shouldn't take things so seriously. I agree, Stein is a yutz.

I'm ashamed to see I missed the obvious 'Franken-Stein' pun.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hse5BIx-Eltfe-LgCdXhSNXewsAAD8SBSHV01

"Io (pronounced "yo")" Saturnalia and "Good Solstice" are my rejoinders of choice. Or sometimes, "No, thank you."

I'm a big fan of Winterlude and Winterval myself.

Thank god I didn't recognize who Nick and Jessica were either.

There are wonderful, intelligent people out there who fall for this conservative religious nonsense. Ben Stein might be one of them. To me, that these people exist is a testament to the virulence of religion, rather than the preponderance of stupid people.

I want to be on Dustin's Christmas card mailing list.

I wonder if Stein has also given money to Norm Coleman, the sitting Senator from Minnesota Al Franken would run against if he gets the nomination. Coleman is also Jewish, but had changed his last name from Goldman to Coleman to sound more Irish than Jewish.

As for the Designated Hitter Schism, it is still going on. I am an apostate to the True Baseballism, cause I like the DH rule.

It's kind of hard to see the exchange as principled on either side.

Pre-Expelled, I'd say that Franken should just thank Ben and be glad that it's as Coleman says, friendship trumping politics. But with Ben getting paid for that hatchet-job against science (even if he undercuts the premise: "he [Ben] said there was a 'very high likelihood' that Darwin was on to something"), and sending $2000 to Al's campaign, one could see this as money from anti-science activities being accepted by Franken's campaign (not that the accounting works out, but that's how people might view it).

One of the two ought to be principled, and the ball's in Al's court now.

Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7

wow i never realized i had so much power. It appears that our small atheist minority (5%) is actually pusing everyone around and controlling everything.
who would have thought.

qedpro: Reality clearly has an atheist bias.

Is Bono supporting Expelled, or are they just using his photo to promote the movie?

Odd choice of image, I must admit. Last I'd heard, he was speaking on behalf of aid to Africa, not in favor of woo. But I could be out of the loop.

The quote might well have been an ironic self-commentary, given Bono's famous long-running propensity to wear sunglasses everywhere.

Hmm. Google indicates that the fuller quote is actually "Coolness might help in your negotiation with people through the world, maybe, but it is impossible to meet God with sunglasses on."

I dunno, I think they're just co-oping Bono because he's recognizable, famous to the young, and has made various religious comments.

Then again, I doubt Einstein — or the Einstein estate — would approve of the use of his image in support of ID.

When that time of year rolls around I sometimes respond to "Merry Christmas" with a hearty "Happy Mithrais" just to see the puzzled expression on faces.

The actual Mithraic holiday of the winter solstice would be Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, "birthday of the unconquerable sun".

Bleah. "co-oping" -> "co-opting". Obviously, I hope.

"What's this empire coming to? Now they want us to stop greeting people with "Io, Saturnalia"! "We have all these different cultures in Rome", they tell us. "We shouldn't offend anyone", they tell us. "We should be inclusive."

http://bigpicture.typepad.com/writing/2005/12/io_saturnalia_.html

I'd rather Franken have the money than Stein. I understand that the idea behind returning political donations is that you don't want to appear tainted or beholden to people who give you money if their ideas are repugnant, but a) would you want to appear tainted or beholden anyway? and b) I don't think Franken's in much danger of that here.

Then again, I doubt Einstein -- or the Einstein estate--would approve of the use of his image in support of ID.

I imagine the collective gonads of everyone here shrivelled at seeing Galileo's face on that site.

This atheist has no problem with Xmas trees either. Heck, I love Xmas, always have. Does that make me a secret Christian? No more than enjoying halloween means that I believe in 'ghosties and ghoulies

Likewise, I have no trouble celebrating that today is Friday, even though I am not a Norse pagan.

Ah, but there are lots of people who are both Jews and atheists.

Indeed. I know many people (including in my extended family) who self-identify as Jewish, and they mean that in a purely cultural/ethnic sense. They're 100% athiest otherwise. It's sort of the Jewish version of "Cafeteria Christianity." They focus on tribal history, tradition, holidays and "moral values" for raising their kids, while basically ignoring or downplaying the theistic aspects, because they don't make sense to a thinking person.

I don't know what Franken's beliefs are, but if he fits that category, then it would be much easier to get elected without making that too explicit, and simply saying he's Jewish.

As for the donation... I dunno. Stein is something of a professional curmudgeon; he likes to stir up trouble and not be easily labeled. I have no idea how serious he is. There might be a little Coulter-ism fake posturing going on there, to draw attention. So I could imagine Franken taking the money with a little winky-winky back and forth between the two. Or maybe Franken has at least one political position that Stein actually does support?

PZ - Look at it this way - That's less $$ Stein has to give to anyone else.

For the record - I agree with you 100% in your battle against ignorance and the stupidity of religious nonsense. But in this case I think you are wrong.

Honestly, this kind of tempest in a teapot only ends up hurting the candidate you're trying to keep 'pure'. Blaming a candidate for who gives them a donation is like blaming you for something stupid some IDer posts on your web site. It is distracting to the campaign and irrelevant to the big issue: Do you want Al or Norm as your Senator?

I have friends whose views about some things I find totally repugnant (and we argue about them). But they're still friends who I know I could count on, and who could count on me - for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with those views.

We should all respect another's personal relationships which may have been built up over years or decades, and not try to impose our self-righteousness on others.

Get over it and get on with getting Al into the Senate, where he will shine his brilliant sense of irreverent humor into the deep dark corners of that stodgy place.

What nonsense, PZ! I'm PROUD of Al for taking the Stein's money. It's like ads for right-wing kooks on DKos--I alway click through, so that Kos gets some money. It's the perfect way to waste their funds!

Every discussion of Ben Stein should remind people that on September 17, 2001 he wrote an article referring to the 9-11 attacks as "atheistic evil." He actually blamed atheism for this ultimate act of unquestioning faith.

He still has the article up on his website.

I went down to the Tap Room, ate shrimp and watched TV about the brave men and women who knew they would die but rushed the cockpit of the plane in Pennsylvania and made it crash in a field instead of into the White House. Then I watched about a field trip of inner-city black kids from D.C. who were used as ballast by the terrorists to attack the Pentagon.

I was crying so much I could not see, and the other diners joined in, and I thought, What do you do with such atheistic evil? Can you use an atom bomb against it? Or is it the end of days? Imagine thinking about Satan while eating shrimp at the Yale Club. Maybe these really are the final days.

Stein is scum, and if Franken keeps the money then he doesn't deserve support.

I have to strongly disagree here. People give money to candidates for many reasons. Stein maybe giving Franken money because he agrees with him on some issues, that he thinks he would improve the discourse in Washington, or merely as a sign of friendship. Either way, it would be insane to expect candidates to refuse money from anyone who disagrees with them (or us) on the issues. I can't see a reason to apply this rule more selectively to celebrities either. The bar for returning contributions should be much higher than that.

Now if Franken was giving money to Ben Stein I might see your point. But even if every Republican member of Congress wrote a $2000 check to Franken, he should take the money and run (for Senate); even the check from Inhofe.

Franken and Stein

Ouch.

Ouch ouch.

Ouch ouch ouch...

But how do you pronounce "Mithrais"?

Try mee-THRAH-ees. Old Persian had the English "hard th" sound.

Incidentally, this is why right-wingers are always down on the left for being "enforcers of political correctness." They're trying to do it far worse than we are

Political correctness is a right-wing concept -- the antiscientific position that only members of a group can make true statements about that group.

On another note, I hope everyone knows about Kurisumasu, the Japanese celebration of love and rampant consumerism? :-) If you don't get what I'm talking about, click here to get an audio file of the Japanese "u".

On the money question, I'm not so sure Franken should really give it back, or rather be happy that Stein coughed up money for a good cause this time.

The actual Mithraic holiday of the winter solstice would be Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, "birthday of the unconquerable sun".

Unconquered.

Meh, money is money. Just as long as Franken isn't letting Ben campaign with him, or advise his campaign.

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship Nick and Jessica

The idea that we should worship mindless celebrities may not have originated with our corporate media gatekeepers, but they certainly cultivate and perfect the practice. It's just your everyday expression of capitalism, of which I understand Mr. Stein is huge fan.

Some old-time Tammany hack once said: "If you can't smoke their cigars, drink their whiskey, fuck their women, and then look them in the eye and vote 'No,' you don't belong in politics."
If I were a politician, I'd announce up front that I'd take money from absolutley anyone, and if they thought they were going to get anything more for it than my best efforts at good government, along the lines I am campaigning on, they were damn fools who deserved to be severely disappointed.
Maybe that's why I'm not a politician.

Ben Stein has wondered who will get his money. He should be asking, who took his brain. Too many hours in front of Faux News, watching the hysterics over "The War on Christmas"?

The only thing Christian about Christmas is the nativity. Everything else was swiped from Yule. Even the trees.

Incidentally, I celebrate Yule, and not Christmas. :)

As Molly Ivins used to say (possibly quoting Sam Rayburn),
"As they say around the Texas Legislature, if you can't drink their whiskey, screw their women, take their money, and vote against 'em anyway, you don't belong in office."

Note to self: Read all the responses before posting, to make sure someone else hasn't already said the same thing!

The actual Mithraic holiday of the winter solstice would be Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, "birthday of the unconquerable sun".

Unconquered.

Formally, yes, victus is the past participle of the verb "to conquer" and "in-" is a negative prefix. But in practice the Romans used invictus to express both the contingent fact of not having been conquered, and the inherent property of invincibility. The Lewis & Short Latin Dictionary defines invictus this way:

in-victus, a, um, adj. [2. in], unconquered, unsubdued, not vanquished; hence unconquerable, invincible

So the rendering of sol invictus as "unconquerable sun" is not, in fact, incorrect.

Incidentally, I celebrate Yule, and not Christmas.

Last December, in response to the "Jesus is the reason for the season" Christmas slogan, I made stickers that said, "The tilt of the earth's axis is the reason for the season"

How about "Keep the Sol in Solstice"?

I'd smile and keep the money if I were Al.

Who outside of Beuller's schoolteacher's addled mind claims that America is an explicitly atheist country?

I'm sick and tired of hearing godlusters like him whine about being oppressed.

Re: Stein's comment of "What do you do with such atheistic evil?"

Probably to Stein the Islamic fanatics are "atheists" in that they don't believe in HIS god, which according to Stein would be the one-and-only god. So then, yes, according to that definition, they would be atheists.

To paraphrase Dawkins, almost everyone is an atheist about all gods except one. Real atheists just go one god further.

Obviously, no candidate supports everything all his contributors do or believe. In the normal course a candidate shouldn't have to return contributions just because the donor advocates or supports some evil or just bone-headed cause. It's different, however, if the contributions tend to support an inference of improper influence over the candidate or of impropriety or illegality in the way the money was raised.

Sure, Ben Stein is a twit, but I doubt Franken's views on the issues have been at all influenced by his friendship with Stein or Stein's contribution. Further, I'd guess that at least most of Stein's money was made ethically or, at least, legally. He likely hasn't made any money yet from Expelled, so it isn't as if Franken's campaign is benefiting from the spread of ID propaganda. It'd be different if Stein had, for example, pledged a percentage of Expelled's take to the Franken campaign.

Uhmmm, I'm not American so Ben Stein is not a household name. Is this the same guy who's a judge in this show?

i thought he was referring to st. nick, and his wife,.......jessica?

Christmas is very secular nowadays.

People have forgotten the real meaning of Christmas - the time when God saved his son from a tyrant, and let the other children take their chances.

Maria: Uhmmm, I'm not American so Ben Stein is not a household name. Is this the same guy who's a judge in this show?

Yes, it's the same guy who is a judge on the VH-1 model show.

Oh boy! Tattooed and Atheist sent me your way. I just received that same e-mail the other day and I was pretty upset that a friend on my friends list on yahoo 360 sent it to me, she's christian and knows I'm atheist. It just kind of struck me as a way to rant through that e-mail. I blogged it too, along with the retorts!

Maybe you've checked this before, but it is a pretty interesting read regarding celebrities and their god-belief. Don't know how accurate is it, but it seems very plausible.

Franken is not there, but it gets pretty funny (and also pathetic and desperate) sometimes. Conan's is pretty funny and says so much in so little words.

http://www.avclub.com/content/node/24569

PZ,
Weren't you paid for being interviewed for Stein's Expelled? Did you return the money or at least donate it to a cause?

Caynazzo @6:

For better or worse Christmas has been completely corporatized to the point that this atheist doesn't mind saying the words, Merry Christmas

I'm not quite an atheist, but am non- and indeed anti-religious. Yet I find the corporatisation of Christmas dreadful. It's a question of aesthetics. I don't believe in angels, but I'll take "Angels We Have Heard on High" over "Walking in a Winter Wonderland" any day of the week.

Wingnut Christians complain about people saying "Happy Holidays" etc.; but surely if committed Christians were to celebrate Christmas quietly, amongst themselves, and without allowing its story to be co-opted as a means to clear inventory, even those of us who do not accept the narrative would at least find their mode of celebration more dignified?

PZ,obviously Mr Stein is confused about all his ancestors being Jewish. There were no Jewish Australopithecines.

Great post PZ!

I went down to the Tap Room, ate shrimp and watched TV about the brave men and women who knew they would die but rushed the cockpit of the plane in Pennsylvania and made it crash in a field instead of into the White House. Then I watched about a field trip of inner-city black kids from D.C. who were used as ballast by the terrorists to attack the Pentagon.

Some jew!

one of my heroes, Robert Greene Ingersoll, wrote this about Christmas in 1891.

The good part of Christmas is not always Christian -- it is generally Pagan; that is to say, human, natural.

Christianity did not come with tidings of great joy, but with a message of eternal grief. It came with the threat of everlasting torture on its lips. It meant war on earth and perdition hereafter.

It taught some good things -- the beauty of love and kindness in man. But as a torch-bearer, as a bringer of joy, it has been a failure. It has given infinite consequences to the acts of finite beings, crushing the soul with a responsibility too great for mortals to bear. It has filled the future with fear and flame, and made God the keeper of an eternal penitentiary, destined to be the home of nearly all the sons of men. Not satisfied with that, it has deprived God of the pardoning power.

And yet it may have done some good by borrowing from the Pagan world the old festival called Christmas.

Long before Christ was born the Sun-God triumphed over the powers of Darkness. About the time that we call Christmas the days begin perceptibly to lengthen. Our barbarian ancestors were worshipers of the sun, and they celebrated his victory over the hosts of night. Such a festival was natural and beautiful. The most natural of all religions is the worship of the sun. Christianity adopted this festival. It borrowed from the Pagans the best it has.

I believe in Christmas and in every day that has been set apart for joy. We in America have too much work and not enough play. We are too much like the English.

I think it was Heinrich Heine who said that he thought a blaspheming Frenchman was a more pleasing object to God than a praying Englishman. We take our joys too sadly. I am in favor of all the good free days -- the more the better.

Christmas is a good day to forgive and forget -- a good day to throw away prejudices and hatreds -- a good day to fill your heart and your house, and the hearts and houses of others, with sunshine.

Robert G. Ingersoll.

The irony of a movie, tv, author and political hack bemoaning the culture of celebrity he is squarely a part of and entirely benefits from is not lost on me.

Re: #18

My wife works in retail and all last Christmas people were saying "Merry Christmas" to her like it was meant as an INSULT since her company's corporate policy is to say "Happy Holidays".

Whenever I get a surly "Merry Christmas," I respond that it's not Christmas yet. Screw O'Reilly: Christmas is one particular day. The whole "holiday season" encompasses Hannukah, Kwaanza, Winter Solstice, Yule, New Year's, and probably some other special times. Therefore, "Happy Holidays" is much more appropriate.

-- CV

Props to Al for getting the money without having to challenge Stein to a battle of wits with Jimmy Kimmel moderating.

Not to defend Ben Stein's views (which I mostly find abhorrent), the comment about "atheistic evil" may have more to do with his inability to write English than a specific dig against atheism. That is, maybe he meant "ungodly evil". Still wrong, of course, as Muslim suicide bombers are a near-perfect example of godly evil (theistic evil?), but at least it makes some kind of grammatical sense in context.

Some of the traditional Christmas songs are quite moving. And I would like to make a tradition of a more recent song - Jackson Browne's "The Rebel Jesus".

Fuck ben stein! Atheists love christmas the most. In fact, this year I'm starting my own "War on the War on Christmas" to take it back from those christians who stole it!!!!

I don't understand the extreme reaction to the Happy Holidays vs. Merry Christmas people. I always assumed it was short hand for 1) Merry Christmas and Happy New Year and/or 2) I don't know what your specific year end tradition is, but I wish you a happy one. I never saw it as a rejection of Christmas, but as an inclusion of other celebrations.

Of course, I now realize, this is obviously what the Christianists are offended by. That the other traditions exist and are included. They couch it as "you're insulting our faith" but it is just another one of their offensives against everyone who doesn't believe what they do.

When Xians complain about being discriminated against, they usually mean that they are not being allowed to impose their views on others. Too bad, so sad.

So Io Saturnalia, Happy Solstice, and while we're at it, lets go eat some wild-caught Alaska seafood- there's plenty out there!

BTW, I love the "Tilt of the axis is the reason for the season" bumper stickers. (Especially as I teach Earth SCience) Can I get one to go with my "What would Scooby-doo?" sticker?

I used to use "Happy Holidays" back when I was a Christian, so as to include New Year's. When I became pagan I used "Have a Cool Yule." Now I'm an atheist I use "Happy Holidays" to be inclusive, or "Same to you" if the other person gets theirs in first. If a Christian has a problem with me not specifying Christmas, and says so (it's happened twice), I say "If you can't take a friendly greeting in good spirit then I expect your holiday will suck whatever I wish for."

By the way, God don't like no Christmas trees:

"Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. . . . They are altogether brutish and foolish." (Jeremiah 10:2-8)

P.Z., "dishonesty" is obviously an impracticable criterion for refusing campaign contributions; *everyone* is dishonest about *something*, and it seems to me there's no principled way to select what degree of dishonesty would count.

That leaves process concerns. But is there really any danger that Stein's contribution will influence Al's policy? Or is there some other conflict of interest I'm not seeing? If not, then isn't Stein's contribution a de facto endorsement of Al's policy goals? And what's wrong with that? When bad people do good things, isn't that a good thing?

Franken and Stein

Ouch.

Ouch ouch.

Ouch ouch ouch...

But how do you pronounce "Mithrais"?

Try mee-THRAH-ees. Old Persian had the English "hard th" sound.

Incidentally, this is why right-wingers are always down on the left for being "enforcers of political correctness." They're trying to do it far worse than we are

Political correctness is a right-wing concept -- the antiscientific position that only members of a group can make true statements about that group.

On another note, I hope everyone knows about Kurisumasu, the Japanese celebration of love and rampant consumerism? :-) If you don't get what I'm talking about, click here to get an audio file of the Japanese "u".

On the money question, I'm not so sure Franken should really give it back, or rather be happy that Stein coughed up money for a good cause this time.

The actual Mithraic holiday of the winter solstice would be Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, "birthday of the unconquerable sun".

Unconquered.