So what are they doing having their own creationist troubles? It just goes to show that this isn't just a problem for southern yokels in Florida and Texas — it's an epidemic all over the country.
The specific problem in this case is a ignorant kook who has been made director of School Administrative District 59 and has decided to flout the state standards and expectations for science classes. Look at this fellow's arguments:
Matthew Linkletter of Athens says that both are merely theories that represent "personal beliefs and world views," rather than proven science. Linkletter suggested during last week's SAD 59 board meeting that the board discuss evolution, the "Big Bang Theory" and other studies he believes should be deleted from the curriculum.
The school board tabled action on the science curriculum at the April 28 meeting, and will reconsider the issue when it meets at 7 p.m. May 19.
Linkletter, a Christian, said there is no way to prove either evolution or creationism.
"You can't show, observe or prove it," Linkletter said of the belief systems. "It's something you have to believe by faith. It doesn't meet the criteria of science.
"If it's not scientifically verifiable, then maybe we should leave it out of the science classes. When you make a statement that's not backed by facts and just represents a world view, then it has no place."
It's just a "theory"; it's a "worldview"; you can't "prove" it. This is a guy who doesn't know one thing about science but has clawed his way up the political ladder so he poison it. As is usual in these situations, the qualified science teachers are stuck there, trying to do their jobs, and gazing incredulously at the posturing buffoon in the administrative position.
"The empirical proof of evolution is in the study of genetics and how genes relate between organisms," said Ward, who teaches advanced-placement senior biology, senior anatomy/physiology and 10th-grade biology. She said evolution is proven, as an empirical matter of science, through studies of the human genome.
"My personal, as well as the National Science Teachers position, is that you can't teach genetics or ecology without evolution.
I rather like this summary:
Madison Town Manager Norman Dean, who taught science in Madison from 1962 through 1996 and once taught Linkletter, characterized his former student's proposal as "absolutely stupid."
Hyphoid Logic has a round-up of some of the news stories (although they are all saying about the same thing right now), and one godless Maine blogger is urging the locals to join him at at the next school board meeting on 19 May, and also provides contact information for reaching the board. Strangely, while SAD #59 does have a web page, it's mostly blank and doesn't even list the board of directors — if anyone has email contact information, let me know and I'll post it so we can get a fast letter writing campaign going.
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Like a lot of places, Maine is primarily a left-leaning state because of the fact that the overwhelming population centers (in this case Cumberland and York County, the southern coast) lean heavily left and comparatively secular. Up near Skowhegan in the central northern part of the state, the culture is totally different.
I thought I would cover this today, being from Maine. But I don't see what I could add the coverage that others haven't.
Ward still might do better not to use the word "proof" in relation to evolution. I know she's just using the word in the vernacular sense that Linkletter did, but it could set up evolution to be charged as absolutist in the way that science cannot be.
Linkletter also said evolution is not "scientifically verifiable" (which Ward may not have known at the time, true), and it would have been better to have said that, yes, it is highly verifiable, and verified.
Anyhow, it looks as though Linkletter is going to be easy enough to handle anyhow. He's saying things that are frankly untrue, rather than trying to sneak creationism under the wire as the IDists do. Whatever my complaints about the vocabulary used, we have huge amounts of data that verify evolution (sans design elements). He's just a buffoon, saying what buffoons in the public wish him to say, but clearly attacking science in the way that the DI knows not to do.
Ward did well, she just might have chosen her words more carefully.
Glen Davidson
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
The Department of Biology at Colby College is keeping track of the situation - some newspaper editorials may be in the works.
I thought this looked like a new tactic on the part of creationists:
We can't even get ID through the small wedge we created into science classes, so lets pull evolution out.
Spanish Inquisitor,
That's a concern that I had as well. This is a sneaky thing; it's a way around the church-state problem, because not teaching evolutionary biology doesn't violate church-state separation. It solves the whole pesky problem that lingers for the Creationists since the Dover decision, and the situation would still fulfill their real goal. If evolutionary bio isn't taught in schools, it isn't taught anywhere. If Creationism isn't taught in schools, it's still taught in church/Sunday school/at home.
Mike,
It still fails the Lemon Test. There is no secular reason not to teach evolution. And you know radiometric dating would be next on the chopping block.
I can see a simple solution for this problem: Termination for incompetence
I could care less about what Linkletter himself believes but I can't see how his actions can't be grounds for his removal...
Removing evolution from schools is one of the most rediculous ideas, they might as well remove Biology all together... It would be like teaching physics without gravitational theory...
Matthew Linkletter of Athens says that both are merely theories that represent "personal beliefs and world views," rather than proven science.
This is what gets me every time, that these people don't understand, or refuse to admit, that it is science itself that represents the world view that they should be opposing. I mean you can make an argument for creationism pretty easily if you reject empiricism, but these people don't do that, they pretend like they can prove crap they just can't.
How long before they go for the burn and pull reading from the curriculum? After all, it might discombobulate some illiterate preacher to have children able to say "that's not what it says in the Bible" and that's ultimately what it's about, isn't it? The Christian Taliban don't want children educated well enough to gag on the crud that's being fed to them by ignorant old fools who resent the state educating children to be less ignorant than them. They see education as a threat, much as in some parts of the world and some parts of history, women and people of certain races, religions or other out-groups were not allowed to be educated because their education would erode the local established power class's claims to knowledge and wisdom.
Just noticed that at the SAD59's homepage Matthew Linkletter's number is the *only* one not listed...
no wonder why...
Still it's worth giving the other board of directors a call to voice your concern:
http://www.sad59.k12.me.us/Schools/admin/board_of_directors.htm
And I just noticed that there are two Linkletters on that board. I wonder if there is any relation.
Let's give them to Canada and let them sort it out.
On a kind-of-but-not-really related note, I came across this today and was going to try it. It's a University of Washington online course through the Princeton server so I'm sure that it's sane but I'm not an expert on debunking ID so I was wondering if anyone here had tried it and what they might have thought about it.
(Emphasis mine.)
I'm just imagining students trying to take the AP exam without knowing evolutionary theory...nah, they'd probably just axe the whole AP program on grounds that it requires teaching of "personal beliefs and world views."
"Let's give them to Canada and let them sort it out."
I've actually been pushing the idea of Canada annexing Maine for some time now.
I question the Germ Theory of Disease as well. It isn't in the Bible and it's just somebodies opinion, right? So I don't have to wash my hands after diaper duty.
I lived in Maine for 20 years. Central Maine has a few wingnuts. Southern Maine and the the coasts are generally a different story. But it's usually a political instead of a religious conservatism (libertarian like New Hampshire).
So I don't have to wash my hands after diaper duty.
for sure!
and why even bother using toilet paper for that matter? did they use toilet paper in the babble?
no.
I mean, just think of all the trees that would be saved!
"Central Maine has a few wingnuts."
Yeah, that Chandler Woodcock guy came from Farmington.
For some reason that sentence is funny in and of itself, can't figure out why.
Let's give them to Canada and let them sort it out.
hmm, between the states we're supposed to give to Canada, and the ones we're supposed to give to Mexico, I wonder what will be left?
or will Canada just butt up against Mexico in the end?
Did anyone see the rather ironic Ben Stein quote at the bottom of the Hyphoid Logic blog?
"As a casual observer of what makes this country work and what stops it cold, I hereby offer a few suggestions on how we can ruin American competitiveness and innovation in the course of this century. I think the reader will agree with me that we are already far down the road on many of them...
12) Elevate mysticism, tribalism, shamanism and fundamentalism--and be sure to exclude educated, hardworking men and women--to an equal status with technology in the public mind. Make sure that, in order to pay proper (and politically correct) respect to all different ethnic groups in America, you act as if science were on an equal footing with voodoo and history with ethnic fable...
-- How to Ruin American Enterprise, by Ben Stein
Forbes Magazine, 12/23/02"
Speaking as a Canadian, we will take as many states as you can give us, just not Texas.
just not Texas.
I think it was decided that one would go to Mexico.
"hmm, between the states we're supposed to give to Canada, and the ones we're supposed to give to Mexico, I wonder what will be left?"
Actually, a better idea would be to split up in more politically and culturally homogeneous nation-states. For instance, Maine could unite with the rest of New England and the Maritimes to become the "Union of Atlantic Commonwealths", or something. Since it was my idea, as a guy from Maine, the Lobster shall be our national symbol and prominently featured on our flag.
Since it was my idea, as a guy from Maine, the Lobster shall be our national symbol and prominently featured on our flag.
fine and dandy, so long as I get the title:
Lord of South-Coastal California.
:p
Or maybe something like this.
We need to make a splotch in Maine red now. And Alaska is Jesus freaks? I had no idea, I thought they just had vampires 30 days a year. Dead rising, Jesus, makes some sense.
"We need to make a splotch in Maine red now."
A bit more than a splotch, really, since you'd obviously have to color Aroostook County crimson red. As far as I know, both people who live there are Republican.
"Speaking as a Canadian, we will take as many states as you can give us, just not Texas."
Speaking as a Buffalonian, You can have Western NY. Not because WNY sucks or anything, but because it would be good to be Canadian. People here already drink Labatt's anyway.
Plus, I'm on disability, I have Medicare, and my medical bills are STILL kicking my ass.
One of the local alternatives actually half-seriously suggested we let Ontario annex Buffalo. Sounds ok to me.
Or maybe something like this.
yup:
http://www.christianexodus.org/
Just let me know when I have to leave Florida into a state that'll be part of Canada.
We do have a network to let folks know, don't we? Why haven't I gotten any emails lately? Is the postmaster sick? Give him some penicillin, that should work. The new antibiotics are just to increase profits, right? Why haven't I gotten any emails lately?
Oh, I should stay in Florida? OK. It's nice and sunny here.
hmm, this could be an interesting game...
which states should be annexed by which countries, based on the popular "persona" of each?
some are obvious, like Maine->Canada, Texas->Mexico...
but what about the others?
Should China get any? England reclaim a wayward few?
some states I think you'd have to break up BEFORE adoption makes sense, like California:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_secession_proposals#Cal…
speaking of which, there's a rather large history of such things:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_secession_proposals
still, for the ones not so contentious, who should be given adoption rights?
From Christian Exodus:
Nuclear bombs for everyone!
"Nuclear bombs for everyone!"
The potential devastation of nuclear weapons is a scam cooked up by governments and their employed scientists to grab more power from ordinary citizens.
It's easy to channel certain denialists, such as the one who showed up here the other day and shall remain nameless.
Why, Tyler, you're right! Those neutron bombs won't even mess up the city! Heck, they might even take care of the fungus on the shower tiles. What more could you want?
sorry, forgot to close the psycho tag.
Why am I not surprised to find a know-it-all Newtonist lurking about this den of intolerant Darwinists?
Newtonists Hate Kids
From Christian Exodus:
I mean, I understand what they're trying to say, but really...alien invaders?...couldn't they have worded that a bit more clearly?
A lobster flag? Wait a second. Does that mean that if you spill drawn butter on your lobster bib, some wingnuts will start giving you hell for flag desecration?
Did no one else notice this?
"You can't show, observe or prove it," Linkletter said of the belief systems. "It's something you have to believe by faith. It doesn't meet the criteria of science.
YAAAAARGH! Evolution is not a belief system! Evolution is a fact of nature, explained by the theory of natural selection. What horrible, sloppy writing. Geez, they're not even writing with neutral language (which is more than this absurdity deserves)! Poor writing like that is not exactly helpful to the cause of sanity.
Michael Gallagher, Superintendent gallag@msad53.org
Mac Watts; Assistant Superintendent mwatts@mes.sad59.k12.me.us
Irene Christopher, Special Services Directorichristopher@madison-alt.sad59.k12.me.us
I mean, I understand what they're trying to say, but really...alien invaders?...couldn't they have worded that a bit more clearly?
If you think you really understand what they are trying to say, you haven't spent enough time in their forum.
*warning*
severe risk of brain cell death increases as an exponent of the amount of time you spend there.
Uh oh - I attended MSAD #60 for 9 years. I better tell my mother to start going to more school board meetings. The stupid isn't that far away.
I better tell my mother to start going to more school board meetings.
that's definetly a great thing to do.
It's hard for these religious zealots to get traction without support from local school boards, and if one can zip it in the bud by participating in school board meetings, it really helps.
I like this part of the CE website:
Yeah, because right now, Comedy Central et al are making it impossible for a Christian to be elected to public office. I bet the majority of the country wouldn't vote for a qualified Christian candidate.
er, *nip* not zip.
Comedy Central et al are making it impossible for a Christian to be elected to public office.
Of course!
That IS John Stewart's job, after all.
why do you think all the candidates feel the need to appear on the Daily Show now?
obviously, John Stewart controls the inevitable outcome of all political campaigns, and Colbert controls the direction of politics itself!
yes, there IS a reason I often cite CE:
the humor value.
:p
Hmm. I'm not sure what to say, since my fellow Mainers seem to have already said it all. But perhaps the new state flag (or province, since we'll be part of Canada) should have more than a lobster. We could add a moose, maybe a loon, or perhaps even Tim Sample. Personally, I think some blueberries would look pretty good next to that red crustacean, don't you?
And as for the wingnuts, we get them all over. They're not confined to any particular area. I'm in one of the state's larger cities, a place just oozing history, but I'm surrounded by people who ooze ignorance. In fact, I grew up attending a fundamentalist church. I managed to escape, but my mother's still involved with them. She's in deep, and she's not the only one around here. Sigh.
Tyler, is that the vicious clawed lobster or the furry old lobster?
It's part humor, and part freakin' lunacy with a mug of freshly whipped and frothy paranoia.
It's part humor, and part freakin' lunacy with a mug of freshly whipped and frothy paranoia.
there's a difference?
:p
I E-Mailed David Connerty-Marin (who is part of the Maine State Education Board and one of the opponents of Linkletter and the other crazies) with respect to this. He kindly responded as follows:
So it's not as if the rational people on that board aren't moving to deal with it. However, some support from local residents for Connerty-Marin's stand against the lunacy would probably be welcome.
As for one of the more worked-out rearrangements of North American, seen Joel Garreau's None nations of North American.
I used to recommend it to European colleagues accustomed to visiting NYC and Boston, disoriented by their first visit to the SF Bay Area. Although seemingly just a bit longer plane ride, when they arrived, it felt like a different country.
I suggested that they read the book, and the next time they came, fly to Boston, and then drive out to California, thus visiting 5 of the 9 nations.
every two or three years???
i couldn't characterize an issue that resurrects itself every two or three years as one that "disappears". it sounds like one that's on a perpetual boil.
"hmm, between the states we're supposed to give to Canada, and the ones we're supposed to give to Mexico, I wonder what will be left?"
For all those who have taken to the habit of expounding on the forthcoming decline and fall of American civilization, let us not forget that one major sign (not necessarily the first, of course) of severe national and cultural decline is when technologically and scientifically more advanced foreign powers start annexing your territory, piece by piece.
Not that Canada or Mexico are technological more advanced. Yet.
Ah, no, they just look that way. What you are really seeing are the Clarkeian magic suppressorstechnocloaking devices in action.
#53 on Joel Garreau's book.
I noticed that Colorado (my home state) is located in the "Empty Quarter".
What's that supposed to mean?
I know that my hometown of Colorado Springs has spawned some scary religions groups and all. Ted Haggard's church was on the same street as the Community College I went to.
But is it really empty? Empty of what? Maybe it is a location so diverse that it fails to fall into any other category?
....no that can't be right.
Did I mention that we have lovely mountains? Over 50 that top 14,000 ft. sounds nice eh?
If it is really "empty" maybe we should "fill" it? With ourselves and other like minded individuals that is.
Yes, we have wingnuts in Maine, too (they don't ALL live in Florida), but I don't see Linkletter's efforts going anywhere.
As for "giving" Maine to Canada, just hold on to your toques, people. Canada is a great place, but the idea is to take the US back from the wingnuts, not run away. I'll be damned if I'm going to let those shits drive me out of MY country!
Linkletter isn't alone in Maine. I just blogged about an article saying that a guy named Luce, the chairman of the school board district (presumably Linkletter's superior) is also supporting this foolishness. I suspect we'll be watching this one play out for a while. (My name is the blog link, but you don't need to go there -- what I've just said is all the news I've got.)
If anyone is interested in a bit more polling fun, a local tv station is running one on this issue.
http://www.wmtw.com/index.html
"You can't show, observe or prove it"
"If it's not scientifically verifiable, then maybe we should leave it out of the science classes."
Right, and that's why creationism is out, and evolution stays in, by the very standards you have stated here, Buddy.
On no other topic do you hear people saying so much about something they understand so little about, and indeed have actively resisted learning about.
Jason Falles writes...
"no other topic do you hear people saying so much about something they understand so little about, and indeed have actively resisted learning about."
Actually no. I think teh stupid also extends to global warming, the Holocaust, HIV as a cause for AIDS, vaccinations as a cause for autism, and probably more.
Scientific denialism is a vigorous industry in America. I think we probably lead the world in that area, what with The Discovery Institute and the Heartland Institute having budgets bigger than some third world countries GNP.
Spanish Inquisitor @#4:
This isn't a new tactic; it's the old, original one. Recall that John Scopes was charged with breaking the law that forbade teaching evolution.
But yes, this has been the creationists' intent all along. "Creation Science", "Intelligent Design", "Teach the Controversy", "Academic Freedom" have all just been fallback positions aimed at achieving the larger goal of getting rid of evolution.
#53 on Joel Garreau's book
Serena, since that book was published back in 1981, I expect things have changed. The "Empty Quarter" idea revolves around having few people but many resources, especially mineral resources. But that picture has become more complex, especially with so many more high-tech and white collar industries in the Front Range.
Regarding the cultural differences within the U.S., another book to consider is "Albion's Seed" by David Hackett Fischer. It suggests possible reasons for the regional variation in American attitudes.
I am not sure if someone already found this, but here is Matthew Linkletters physical address and telephone number:
Matthew Linkletter
2 Linkletter Rd
Athens, ME
(207) 654-2782
Thank you for posting this PZ. I knew you would be interested. Hopefully we can save these kids from the ignorance of at least some of the adults of their community.
"Tyler, is that the vicious clawed lobster or the furry old lobster?"
I was actually thinking more along the lines of a mutated humanoid lobster.
But, Tyler, remember that each missing link only creates two new gaps!
Dumb clouds are raging
Stupid clouds at my door
Creepy weather coming
Coming 'round my floor
Well dumb clouds stay away
And don't come back no more
Ooo cagey
Ooo cagey
It looks like Linkletter and Luce have been slapped down for now. A story published at 11:07 AM says that there will not be a vote on Linkletter's proposal at the May 19 meeting and probably not at all during this school year. Next school year, who knows. No particular reason for the change in plans was given in the story.
More here if anyone wants it, but that's about the jist of it.
You can't show or observe the Earth's core with your naked eye, but we know it exists. Notice they accept a few miles of Earth's interior that they can see via mines, cores etc, (analogous to microevolution) but ALSO accept the indirect evidence of Earth's mantle, upper and inner core etc.
So, by that logic, why are Earth-core-denialists so rare?
Also, notice the trademark misunderstanding of "proof" and "evidence", "theory" and "fact" - indelible signs our opponent doesn't understand the issue.
#65
His last name is the same as the road he lives on? What is he, the Once-ler?
Not that uncommon in places where folks have been settled for long periods of time. The road is often named for the family farm/homestead.
Re: Joel Garreau's Nine nations of North American.
What do you know - I've visited seven of them (and flown over The Breadbasket and The Empty Quarter).
#64 Trefayne
Hmm. So it was only "empty" because the many resources had yet to be plundered.
I do think it is very interesting how the geography of an area influences the society or community that develops. I guess it is all about how the people earn their living. This was nicely referred to, I thought, in "Guns Germs and Steel".
So to bring it back to topic. What happened up there in Main? Before all this I really thought they were free of all this crazy creationist nonsense.
Though there was that Puritan problem to begin with, which I think was somewhere over there on the east coast....maybe near main....don't know?
Back off topic: #65 James
I love the Lorax! First book I ever bought when I was only 7. Poor brown Bar-ba-loots, frisking about in their Bar-ba-loot suits.
re: #53, #64 Colorado & The Empty Quarter
The web page is only an approximation of the maps in the book, and in particular, misdraws Colorado. The book draws the line just outside the Eastern suburbs of Denver. People argued with Garreau over a few miles here and there. On the real map Dallas is in Dixie and Fort Worth in Breadbasket for example.
As I recall, one of the original reasons for writing the book was explaining weird politics in "split" states, of which Colorado was one, i.e., Eastern part of Breadbasket and Western part of Empty Quarter.
EQ tended to:
- have a lot of open space
- ranching > farming
- emphasize energy & minerals
From my visits, I'd say Denver, Salt lake City, Calgary, Edmonton "feel" more akin then they are like
San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver on one side, or Kansas City ... Winnipeg on the other side.
High-tech is not necessarily a distinguishing feature: all of the Nations have at least a few metropolitan areas that host high-tech clusters, except maybe The Islands.
Linkletter is too dumb to realise that his argument against evolution is the same argument rational people use against faith.
"Can't be proved", "relies on belief", etc ...
Difference being that evolution can be shown to be correct by repeatable, testable experimentation and observation - cookoo creationism can't, 'cos it's cookoo.
just not Texas.
I think it was decided that one would go to Mexico.
Now, now. you know how Texans are about being a country of its own at one time. Guess what they'd want? Of course, then the real fun would begin, what with Catholic Hispanic (and alcohol-drenched) South Texas battling the uptight white protestants north of San Antonio. East and West Texas would be at war over water. Dallas couldn't be in the same country as Houston, and nobody wants anything to do with Austin, although it will become an asylum for Texans who still have a shred of reason in their heads. Okay, so some of them will be down in San Antonio because they can't stand the traffic in Austin--and San Antonio will be too drunk from its latest party on the Riverwalk to care if someone's reasonable, as long as they have some aspirin and maybe a sledgehammer just in case the headache doesn't go away (can you tell I've gone drinking on the Riverwalk recently?)
Norman Dean - No relation to reactionless space drive Norman Dean, I suppose