We just moved the last of Skatje's stuff out of our house and into her dorm room. No more kids at home! We've come full circle now to 1983, back when we were a couple living in a studio apartment, living on Mac&Cheez and free government cheese food, scraping by on minimal grad student stipends. Now we're in a big old empty house that we got because it was a perfect family home, but otherwise, we're still getting by on the cheap, since we still have two kids off at college.
Oh, and we're also left holding the bag on two cats.
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Sounds like you have your life back,PZ....I have 15 years to go LOL
Why do I sense it doesnt make you happy tho??
Cats are better than kids or spouses any day!
Hey MAJeff,
dont know if there was a thread about this,but you and the other guests did a great job with the blog,just wanted to let ya know.....
You should really not store your cats in bags. They'll ruin your bag.
Oh, this must be a tough day for you, PZ. In my experience, what will really help ease the pain is to just have another baby. It's what my parents did just before I moved away to school.
Also, don't fret too much about the cats. I left my parents with the same burden, and they came through it alright. Sadly, my 20 year old kitty left us just yesterday :(
"Oh, and we're also left holding the bag on two cats."
Put a brick in the bag with the cats and go find a bridge...
Now you have your trophy wife all to yourself again.
P.Z I just want to say you have done wonderful. The children will be successful and you and your beautiful wife will enjoy the your lives to the fullest.If you ever come to Europe be sure to visit Croatia
In Principia, Newton theorized that children's pets where never the responsibility of children, but the responsibility of the parents. I don't think anyone's refuted the theory yet.
Hey MAJeff,
dont know if there was a thread about this,but you and the other guests did a great job with the blog,just wanted to let ya know.....
But clinteas, I'm sure your appreciation already came through loud and clear here:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/08/the_problem_is_our_existence…
Croatia; all the beauty of Italian beaches and mountain hamlets, none of that jerk Berlussconi and his neo-fascist political allies. *sigh*
It says something sad about me and my reading habits that this is the first thing I think about when someone mentions Croatia. *runs out to buy a science fiction novel*
SC,
yes i knew that one was going to come back to haunt me one day,thanks for reminding me lol...
Goes to show you shouldnt post when you had a bad day,are tired from night shift and cant sleep...
It did in fact not mean I didnt appreciate the Minions posts,I thought they were great.
Julian
Croatia has all that you mention. I mhave lived here 10 years and have a apt overlooking the Adriatic. I could not be happier.
I take my daughter to college this Wednesday. Not only am I a wreck, I'm stuck for FOUR cats!
Damn, all the cat-bag jokes are already taken already.
Obvious solution; eat the cats.
When I left for college, I specifically chose a school that allowed freshmen to live off campus, offered me a big enough scholarship package to be able to afford to live off campus, and was large enough that there were many pet-friendly apartments to choose from. I wouldn't have made it in college if I'd had to leave the cats behind!
LISAJ @ 5,
Sorry to hear about your cat. Twenty years is a good run though! My wife and I have had ours for about 9 years. It'll be tough when they go too. My advice, get another one as soon as you feel ready.
Hey, we just our first-born into her ASU dorm on Thursday. Got a high-school freshman, too. I'm sure the next four years will fly by.
To Julian, I was in Italy for the first time in July and loved it. Then again, I paid no attention to news or politics for two weeks -- how refreshing!
Our guide in Rome told us they have a recent saying: In Italy, we have a crook for a president who is surrounded by idiots. In America, it's the other way around.
LisaJ has the perfect solution to empty-nest syndrome: fill it with another baby. Her parents and my parents did the same thing -- have a kid just as I was going off to college. My sibs were in high school, so they got more "quality time" with the baby brother, whom my parents (well, Dad, actually) turned into a spoiled brat. I'm sure this has nothing to do with my childless lifestyle.
I don't think it was a coincidence that my brother was born just a couple of years after Paul VI condemned birth control, so we can always blame the pope.
LisaJ,
sorry to hear about your cat. I had a similar thing earlier this summer, when my 18-yo cat, who had actually become my dad's cat for the past decade, was put to sleep earlier this summer. I hadn't lived with the cat for about 10 years, but surprised myself by crying. When Harriet goes (I've had her for 8 years now), I'm going to be a wreck.
Clinteas,
Thanks. Glad you liked.
Gotta admit, I was waiting for you to start criticizing PZ for posting three things dealing with gay rights when he came back (and my comments to that effect were directed to you--and others, it wasn't only you, to be honest.).
Thanks Dahan (#19). She sure did have a good run, it was unbelievable really. I'm mostly OK, since I haven't lived at home for almost a decade. My 12 year old brother though, not so much. Poor kid, he had to tell me by email because he couldn't stop crying. Although he's known it was coming, so has been secretly saving up for a puppy for this occasion, so he recently told me :)
Lets see... you've got two cats & a bag & I'm sure there's a deep body of water around there somewhere.....
JK
Don't celebrate the empty nest too early -- one of ours graduated and promptly moved back home while he figures out what grad school to go to.
Anyone got recs for a good Anthro program? (I think more on the cultural side than on the skulls & bones).
Zeno: I hear ya, my little brother definitely got the best childhood by far out of the three of us, and has little idea of how good he really has it. Oh well, it makes sense really, with all that practice my parents had with their first two.
Thanks MAJeff: Sorry to hear about your cat, too. Like you, I have also been surprised with a few overly emotional moments over the past 18 hours or so. I haven't lived with her for so long, but she was my cat all through most of elementary and high school. She followed me everywhere, and still would whenever I'd visit over the past decade.
Also, thanks Clinteas for the compliment to the guest bloggers. I had a great time.
MAJeff,
about the only prob I have with gays or trans or inter, is if they're cute and dont want to be with me,so no prob really...
There seems to be a persecution issue that I as a hetero slut in another country probably cannot understand,so I wont go into it anymore.
I guess my point was ultimately,that being gay or straight is like being right-handed or left-handed to me,it really doesnt bother me at all.
we're still getting by on the cheap
With a kid in college, how do you manage this?
I just delivered my second to college, with her brother as a senior in college, and it ain't cheap!
Why didn't the parent training manual suggest more firmly that we have them at least four years apart....?
Post kitty pictures! We've seen your trophy wife, now where are the trophy cats??
"I guess my point was ultimately,that being gay or straight is like being right-handed or left-handed to me,it really doesnt bother me at all." - clinteas, #27
I can remember a half-century ago when left-handed kids were somewhat "persecuted" and left-handedness was seen as being wrong or sinister (look it up).
And don't forget it was less than a century ago that uppity women who wanted to vote were jailed and beaten for being different.
Her parents and my parents did the same thing -- have a kid just as I was going off to college.
Ha. My parents did the same thing right as I was graduating from college, and had twins at that. I wouldn't recommend it, but sometimes I think it was a sneaky way of ensuring that I wouldn't move back home and be one of those boomerang kids.
Give the cats to the physics department.
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/funny-pictures-ca…
The perfect solution to an empty nest:
Get a dog! They're just like children, except they never want to borrow the car, they don't talk back (mostly), and you can't make them mow the lawn.
Reminds me of the joke -- A priest a minister and PZ Myers are sitting in a bar discussing when life begins. The minister argues that life, of course. begins at conception. The priest says, "I must really disagree, I believe that Aquinas was right when he said that live begins at quickening." PZ Myers says, "You're both wrong, life begins when the kids move out and the cats die"
Jeez, she must have lived a very spartan lifestyle if ALL her stuff could fit in her dorm room. ;-)
"...and then fertilizes her with a special arm."
That's no arm...
Get a puppy to entertain the cats, and yourself.
I can remember a half-century ago when left-handed kids were somewhat "persecuted" and left-handedness was seen as being wrong or sinister (look it up).
But look at how far we've come in such a short time:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/03/AR20080…
:)
Have you borrowed those bags off Schrödinger by any chance?
Soooo ... Had sex in all the rooms of the house, yet?
persecution complex
maybe my first instinct was right.
I can remember a half-century ago when left-handed kids were somewhat "persecuted" and left-handedness was seen as being wrong or sinister (look it up).
I think you are a little off on the time line. It was more like a century ago that lefties were considered somewhat wrong. My father, who was born in 1905, was a leftie but he was turned into a rightie by people who would hit him whenever he used his left hand. They also tied his left hand down by his side so he could not use it. Pretty nasty but that was the way things were back then.
When, as a boy, I began showing signs of left handedness my father would not let people turn me into a rightie. (I was born in 1943.) I think he remembered the problems he had as a kid and did not want me to go through them.
Still you are correct. Left-handedness was not something that society regarded open-mindedly a century ago.
PZ, the key thing now is to move back into a modest sized house. There are all sorts of reasons for this. It saves money. It forces you to get rid of some of the junk you've accumulated, and keeps you from doubling that over the coming years.
And if the nestlings get the idea there's no bouncing back, that's not entirely a bad thing either. ;-)
My sister is doing the same thing next weekend, moving my brilliant niece (no, really, she's brilliant!) into her university dorm. Sis and BiL are alternately terrified and proud, and niece suddenly realized a few weeks ago that she's going to miss her dog bigtime, so she's alternately excited and mournful. Big adjustments all around.
So congratulations on successfully getting all of the kids out into the world, PZed. Don't sell the spare beds yet though - chances are good they'll be back!
We can haz pix of kittehs, plz?
Agreed! Kitteh pix FTW!
I can remember a half-century ago when left-handed kids were somewhat "persecuted" and left-handedness was seen as being wrong or sinister (look it up).
I think you are a little off on the time line. It was more like a century ago that lefties were considered somewhat wrong.<\i>
It probably depends on where you were 50 years ago. I am left handed, and in first grade (in the '60s; a school in El Paso, one in Virginia, and a school for military kids in Germany) the schools wanted to force me to be right handed. My mother wouldn't let them. About 10 years after that (in the '70s), I was told to use only my right hand to take the sacrament (LDS) because the left hand was the hand of the devil. I thought that was stupid and ignored it.
Not that long ago (in my opinion, anyway), and for all I know the church thing still happens.
You have it all wrong.
No human being is able to keep cats, the cats keep you as long as they like to.
Re: MRL
Plus, the good ones will take care of that pesky cat infestation.
Two words:
Cat Vindaloo
My paternal grandfather was a leftie who was supposedly broken of the habit about a hundred years ago in boarding school in the Azores. To stop him from favoring his left hand, a stocking was put over it. Tied with string, too, I seem to recall his saying, to make it less convenient for him to slip it off. Although he became habituated to using his right hand, decades later my grandfather still liked to sign his name with his left hand occasionally, mystifying people who thought he was an innate rightie.
As for the reason for breaking the left-hand habit: Very simple. It is of the devil!
I have a brother who is a leftie. We didn't break him of the habit (although my grandmother tried to nudge my parents in that direction) and so far there's no sign of demonic possession. Just lucky, I guess.
"Damn, all the cat-bag jokes are already taken already."
Only if the cats are still in the bag. If not, there's the question of who. . .
Zeno and Others
Artists are often left handed. Artists are often gay. Zeno (sic) research, but I think this is one of reasons left handedness was discouraged.
Now, I'm only 40, but I certainly had the same problem in school. I started out writing with my left hand and was sternly corrected by my teacher(s). Now I can't write legibly with EITHER hand..
We've got 2 kids going off to college this weekend as well, the girl off to Bryn Mawr for her second year becoming a paleontologist, and the boy off for his first year at Sarah Lawrence to become a filmmaker. Both earned full scholarships, or they'd never be managing this.. Smart kids!
They're not actually MY kids, but I've known them since they were 5 and 6, and their father and I have owned a house together for 10 years. They're close enough to being 'my' kids that I'll miss them terribly, and hope for the very best for them in school.
Hang in there, P.Z!
I logged on and read this post after a harrowing morning of shopping for school supplies for the 'can I stay in the car?' eight year old and the 'must preen in front of every mirror she sees' 5 1/2 year old, followed by scrubbing greasy bath crayon, toothpaste and oatmeal (don't ask) from the kids' bathroom tile. And I have to say I still feel a hollow little ache when I think of them moving out--partly because I know how fast the time will flow by between now and then.
At least Skatje is still local, yes? I'm sure she'll be by from time to time, if only to see the kitties :)
Thanks clinteas for the positive feedback. Guest-blogging here was amazingly fun--and quite addictive, actually. I've found myself wondering more than once how insane it would be to try to set up a blog of my own...
Danio, reply from another thread.
Michael Egnor & Evolution News & Views is trying to make you as famous as PZ. Pleased that I was the one to notify you.
We? We helped her move her stuff? I seem to recall you dolly'd up the last two boxes, but didn't lift a single finger for the rest of it.
Now you can walk around the house naked.
Welcome to the club, except I'm farther along.
Oh, and I dig the cat thing - same here - the remaining cat is still 'staying with me'. It's been what, 9 or 10 years now? I wonder when she's coming to get her pet? Maybe tomorrow...
Bag, cats, all you need is a sufficiently deep body of water and you can find your inner peace again.
Hate cats.
Skatje, #56
Why have priveleges if a man can't abuse them?
Now, what do you get when you cross a cat and a bag?
One exhausted cat and a roomful of confetti.
Huh, don't get your hopes up too soon.
Ever heard about 'boomerang kids'?
Got one full-time and another part-time.
As to cats, the fur is nice to use against the small of the back in wintertime, especially in colder climates.
Any uses for live cats? Doubt it.
Dead cats on the other hand . . .
As someone commented: "Dead cats or dead dinosaurs -- which is a renewable resource?"
[quote]Croatia; all the beauty of Italian beaches and mountain hamlets, none of that jerk Berlussconi and his neo-fascist political allies.[/quote]
But it's also a country where openly declared atheists are elected.
In eight years I'll be 61 when our youngest reaches 18, and I'm not looking fwd to the kids leaving at all. I find the kids have a much more free-wheeling thought process, and better imagination than most adults, so I often prefer their company.
I'm going to start the 10 year old boy on science fiction this year, probably some dragon rider stuff to get him going.
And if I EVER catch him smoking pot around high school age, I'll get him the complete Philip K Dick.
Get rid of the cats. If you need some mammals around I recommend ferrets. They have many of the pet mammal attributes, but if you need to leave town, you just leave a huge bowl of Cat Food, and a big bowl of water, and they're fine. You just have to cordon off a part of the house with those baby fence gadgets, and that's all the universe they need.
Our latest actually drinks from the toilet for even lower maintenance. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aiv3yhCI67M
We bought the ferret a kitten to play with when her brother croaked, but even now, at ten times the mass, the stoopid cat is still scared shitless of the ferret.
cats are idiots.
What have you got against kitties (domestic cats), PZ?
I'll take my beloved longtime companion cats to any person I have ever known in 6+ decades of life. Mind, I am a retired educator and have enjoyed a life filled with laughter, and the love of friends.
Scooter, that's a classic example of anecdotal evidence, but I have another - opposite case: My neighbors had a Weimeraner, who used to consider herself queen of the neighborhood, until we moved in. Molly (the dog) came over to visit one day, and our 12lb housecat went into full-on attack mode. The poor dog is still terrified, won't even come near our door.
As far as the leftie meme: I am one too, and in 1st grade my teacher tried to get me to switch. My parents demanded a meeting with the principal. I don't know the content of that meeting, but I do know I was never asked to try to switch again.
"All people are born Right-Handed. Only the especially gifted overcome this birth defect" - seen on a bumper sticker.
Recipe?
My wife and I attribute the contined survival of our cat to our uncertainty about how to correctly remove the fur. I kind of think of her (the cat, not my wife) as emergency rations (comes from having lived in a hurricane zone for a dozen years, I guess).
And this is different from cats how?
Re the main topic of the thread, we'll be moving our only daughter into her room at Yale (she's in Davenport College, but freshman live in Old Campus) on Friday. She spent much of this past weekend saying goodbye to friends (many of whom have become our friends as well) whose schools are farther away, or start earlier, and it's really beginning to set in that she's leaving. Of course, New Haven is <1 hr from our house... but I'm hoping she'll be so happy and busy there that we'll hardly ever see her.
It's bittersweet that this separation should be both a wrenching personal challenge and confirmation that we've successfully discharged our basic obligations as parents!
Somehow a whole chunk of text disappeared from my last:
"Of course, New Haven is..." should have continued:
"...<1 hr from our home, but I'm hoping she'll be having having such a great experience that she won't be home often."
I know I typed that in the original comment; dunno how it ended up missing from what got posted.
You must be using a bad word to describe New Haven. (You wouldn't be the first.)
:-)
@ #57
Great. That's one image that'll be burned in my brain for eternity.
No, New Haven has cleaned up its act considerably in recent years, and the area immediately around the Yale campus is actually quite nice these days. But I think I've figured out what is going on: What I was trying to type was...
...but I was using the less-than symbol (<), which was apparently being interpreted as an (unfinished) HTML tag. I thought that would only happen if it were paired with the greater-than symbol (>), but I guess I was wrong.
What's that rule again about correct errors on teh intertoobz? This...
...was supposed to be:
Mindful of my previous carelessness, I used Preview to verify that I had the right codes... and as best as I can reconstruct it, doing so converted the codes for less-than and greater-than to the actually ASCII symbols... which were then interpreted as tags when I hit Post.
Sigh.
I'm going to spend a few minutes wandering around aimlessly while muttering quietly to myself now.
I hate cats.
They spray my lettuce and crap all around my tomatoes and strawberries. They commit screaming, yowling cat rape right under my bedroom window half the night. Then spend their morning trying to kill my chickens.
Do the proper christian thing PZ.
Crucify the bastards!
Never spent any time in New Haven on purpose. Have attempted to drive through on I-95 many times, however, and usually end up spending far more time in New Haven than planned. I really hate that stretch of road, enough to switch my default NY-to-Boston route to 684 up to Brewster and I-84 all the way across CT.
They say that real life starts once the dog is dead and the children are out of home.
Yah. I periodically need to drop off or pick up folks at the Bridgeport-Port Jeff ferry, and I always take the Wilber Cross Parkway specifically to avoid that stretch of I-95 between Bridgeport and New Haven. Actually, I try to avoid as much of I-95 as possible, anywhere north of southern Virginia. When I must drive through the DC area, I try to do so in the middle of the night, to keep the traffic tsuris down to the merely somewhat insane.
If you're going back and forth between NYC and Boston via I-84, you're passing very close to my humble abode. It's a small world, eh?
Yes, Quality, I thought of that saying the last time we got a dog from the shelter. I wanted to pick one that would die when our youngest went off to college. But I was outvoted. That was five years ago. Last week, we dropped off the youngest. The dog is in good health.
PZ Myers says, "You're both wrong, life begins when the kids move out and the cats die"
When my sister moved from Guam to North Carolina (USNavy enlisted) she had her cats(2) sent from Guam to Hawaii to Seattle to Mobile to my parents in lower Alabama. They lived 10 more years; they were not replaced.
I'm leaving town when my 10 y o cat dies.
Mine is staying home to attend U of WA as a commuter student. I tried to ship her off to U Minn Morris but youse guys cut the women's wrestling team there!
I only get mine to stay moved out by paying his rent fairly often.
You do realise, of course, that the fur is a good deal warmer with the cat still in it, right?
Coward.
Yeah, but it's easier to keep it in the spot you need warmed if it's just the fur!
What, you mean because I don't also consider my wife as emergency rations? I suppose it could get that bad... we try to avoid flying over the Andes in old planes, though.