Darwin on fire!

Looks to be interesting.

Bring lots of water. I'm told it's like money there.

I've never been either but was very close a couple times. Went climbing instead. It's a pretty cool event from all reports. Lots of art, chaos and debauchery.

The idea of a seriously debaucherous party does appeal to me.....

Maybe this year.

I've been wanting to go to Burning Man for years, but I've never made it. This is the perfect excuse to take the plunge. We should organize a Pharyngula delegation or something.

it could also be very weird

"could," Kemosabe?
Never been, in part because I consider it just another way the fragile desert ecosystem is despoiled by the ignorant. I'm serious, too.

At bottom every man knows well enough that he is a unique being, only once on this earth; and by no extraordinary chance will such a marvelously picturesque piece of diversity in unity as he is, ever be put together a second time.
-- Frederick Nietzsche

IT IS NICE TO SEE THAT NIETZSCHE is a creationist, the last part of the quote proves it when he says that man is such a piece of diversity............."put togeter"

Lluraa - WTF?!

Are you actually that stupid or have I just fallen victim to Poe's Law?

Lllllllauaauuauaurrauara lets talk about your church some more.

Tell us about the Native American's as decedents of the Israelites.

No?

What's the point of your post above?

You should go and set up a Pharyngula Embassy or something.

Darwinist hippies, that sounds like a lot of very weird fun.

stupid apostrophe

The Crux of the Biscuit is the apostrophe

Never been, in part because I consider it just another way the fragile desert ecosystem is despoiled by the ignorant. I'm serious, too.

A shame. I didn't know that. I'm really very ignorant about this event.

Lluraa appears to be in freefall. Will she find the cord on reason's parachute?

We have two sources for our genetic make-up: our parents. Likewise their parents each had two sources for their genetic make-up. EVERY individual is going to have a unique genetic code given the size of the genome and the way we reproduce. Calling Nietzsche a creationist from that quote is to completely misread the quote, and to completely ignore Nietzsche's outlook on life. i.e. it's QUOTEMINING. And bad quotemining at that.

The Crux of the Biscuit is the apostrophe

As ever, Bob the Angry Flower agrees.

Lluraa appears to be in freefall

After that last one, I'm leaning Poe.

I always expect any large gathering of hippies to be full of woo. I couldn't imagine there not being tons of people into healing crystals, ufology, and Robert Anton Wilson style mental healing quackery. I'll be a leathery young cynic and say that they'll give Darwin lip service, but it will be a generally anti-science crowd.

I couldn't help but think of Les Claypool's movie "Electric Tangerine" when you mentioned Burning Man, though ;)

In re: #6 - I don't think "put together" necessarily implies an Intelligent Putter.

Llaura, a snowflake is also a marvelously picturesque piece of diversity. It also is not the product of any god, but that of natural, blind forces.

Nietzsche was an atheist by the way. Perhaps you'll actually read his works before shooting off at the mouth? Stranger things have happened...

Nietzsche was an atheist by the way. Perhaps you'll actually read his works before shooting off at the mouth?

Cue bogus deathbed conversion claim in 3.. 2.. 1..

I always expect any large gathering of hippies to be full of woo. I couldn't imagine there not being tons of people into healing crystals, ufology, and Robert Anton Wilson style mental healing quackery

While there is some of that it's more "free spirit" that new age hippie. And even more than that it's real artsy and an excuse to party.

Sure there is all the wooness, but it's a big chaotic let it all hang out (literally) party. Full of all that you think it would be full of and some.

I'm sure the wooeyness would be annoying but the party factor would be fun.

And yes, I am starting to think that Llluararrrauauau is Poe

I dunno, I imagine it would be like a giant version of my local farmers' market - good food and a good idea et al but full of hippies giving each other Reiki.

Llauraa #6:

People can be materially "put together" by mindless natural forces of chance and necessity. The phrase doesn't require that we visualize Mr. Potato Head and some giant Hands.

Poe or drive-by thread shitter?

A good Poe, in my opinion, should be humorously over the top while still w/in the range of what the believers themselves would accept. Ideally everyone would be in on the joke except the believers themselves, who wonder why this one person is getting much more favorable responses than they are. A great example of this are Edward Current's videos which are hilarious, yet regularly fool the faithful (along w/ some idiots among the not).

I think Lluraa is a boring/bad Poe, because no one would be silly enough to claim Nietzsche is a creationist, or think that Mormon apologetics aren't going to be ignored at best, or otherwise cruelly mocked.

You're too late, PZ. Burning Man has long been Poseur Man. Not to mention all the alleged hippies* create a festival with the carbon footprint of a major city.

Best quote I found was, "Burning Man- The annual pilgrimage to the Nevada desert by white, middle/upper-class people who get to pretend they're all fascinating and unique snowflakes for two weeks."

*Primarily denizens of Silicon Valley cubicle farms.

I think Lluraa is a boring/bad Poe, because no one would be silly enough to claim Nietzsche is a creationist, or think that Mormon apologetics aren't going to be ignored at best, or otherwise cruelly mocked.

good point.

Maybe llluaraura will come back and talk about magic underwear some more.

A great example of this are Edward Current's videos which are hilarious, yet regularly fool the faithful (along w/ some idiots among the not).

I posted that video he made on Creation Science on a non-religious forum. It was scary the number of people who thought it was real. It took watching a few videos of his to realise he's playing the poe. I think even the first time I saw one of his videos that it took me a couple of minutes to realise it's all satire, he does it so well.

Yeah, but look at Edward Current's videos...then VenomFangX's. If you can't believe Current is a real creationist, how can you believe VenomFangX is?

If you can't believe Current is a real creationist, how can you believe VenomFangX is?

There's one key difference: EdwardCurrent doesn't censor his comments, VFX does. It's the marking of the true antichrist, I mean creationist.

Actually, Burning Man is pretty cool. Just like any group, there are a lot of idiots, but some of the installation art is good, and a lot of the people are more than worthwhile.

That said, I actually prefer the local (New Zealand) Kiwiburn, which is less idiot-populated, a lot smaller, and arguably more fun. Also my partner is the Treasurer.

Llamaa had be going for a while, so she must be a pretty good Poe. She just tipped her hand with this last comment.

Actually, Burning Man is pretty cool.

Well, I went with some coworkers in 2005. I got laid, so I guess there was that. :-\ I'm told it was much better back in the 1990s.

Like this guy:
http://mediamorgue.blogspot.com/2008/08/burning-man-has-jumpped-shark.h…

I have been fascinated with the idea of attending a Burning Man for the last five or six years. Sounds like something that might be a real blast if I wasn't as old (or older?) than PZ. My wife reminds me that the romance and mystery of the event would quickly fade to the reality of oppressive heat and days spent digging sand out of the crack of my ass.

Enjoy.

The Onion reports:

'Evolutionists Flock to Darwin-Shaped Wall Stain'

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/evolutionists_flock_to_darwin

However, this rigorous weeding out of 'unfit' individuals has gradually ceased to occur within our species. Medicine and mutual aid assure that nearly anyone is able to survive and reproduce.

Nonsense. A fit orgranism is one that's adapted to its environment. If that environment includes medicine and mutual aid, then exploiting those resources to further one's reproductive success is by definition 'fit'.

Damn. Make that "organism".

Llauraa @ 6

Have to give you your due Llauraa; you have staying power and a thick hide to match your head to tolerate our constant bludgeonings with all the rational power we can muster. Which makes you very diverse, enough to nominate you for the Darwin Awards, created for your type of diversity. Nietzsche would be proud to have you as an example, even declaring your imaginary god dead, and then going mad for the sake of diversity.

Exactly Gregory. Whether or not they would have been unable to survive 50,000 years ago is not relevant at all. They are born into a society where we've found solutions to certain problems such as vision or hearing impairment, with those advances they are perfectly adapted to the environment. They are not unfit to the point that it inhibits their chances of fathering offspring, so why should we consider those with problems solved by progress as unfit?

Les Claypool's movie "Electric Tangerine"
--------------

IMDB.COM knows nothing of this movie. Enlighten me because it sounds like a cool title.

Enjoy.

Mr. Twiddle you just reminded me of how Nesbit tried to make that article out as a critique of modern atheists. It was sad at the same time as the article was hilarious. Poor little hack.

We seem to be attracting some pretty low end hit and run godbots lately. It would be more fun if they actually said something cogent and on topic, and would stick around and actually answer our questions.
Some of them are almost disemvoweling themselves.

Yeah, but look at Edward Current's videos...then VenomFangX's. If you can't believe Current is a real creationist, how can you believe VenomFangX is?

Point taken. The difference for me is that I can't watch one of VFX's videos for longer than 30 seconds. ;)

Edward Current has become more subtle recently -- some of his earlier videos, like Resisting The Urge: A Guide For Christian Boys, are obvious parodies. More recently, his I've Converted To EVERY Religion (Just In Case) may be one of the best responses to Pascal's Wager that I've seen.

As for VenomFangX, he may wind up being banned from YouTube, if not sued under the DMCA, for filing bogus DMCA takedown requests against thunderf00t and others. Speaking of thunderf00t, he's got a new Why do people laugh at creationists? video out. And Nick Gisburne, over at gisburne.com, is posting daily updates as part of his Blasphemy! The Musical project -- where he's writing new, blasphemous words to well-known tunes.

All told yesterday was a happy day on the intertubes for yours truly, with new updates from all my favorite non-pharyngula sites. Oh, and supposedly Phil Plait now has a blog :)

That is the best paradolia I've seen so far. I can see Darwin in the picture. Amazing.

Tim Fuller and pcarini I think the movie is "Electric Apricot".

Tim Fuller @ #36

Les Claypool's movie "Electric Tangerine"
--------------

IMDB.COM knows nothing of this movie. Enlighten me because it sounds like a cool title.

Enjoy.

My bad, Tim, the movie is actually called Electric Apricot. It's a rockumentary in the style of Spinal Tap, that follows a jam band (pun intended?) through the process of recording an album and landing their first big gig. Their big song is "Hey, are you going to Burning Man?"

Having been to Burning Man 12 times (skipped this year because attending the JREF Galapagos trip was more enticing), I can tell you that the theme of the event is largely irrelevant. Yes, it is reflected in some of the art pieces, but its biggest influence is on the poster and ticket design for that year.

Other posters are correct that the woo factor can run very high, but over the years I've learned to just laugh it off. I mean really... have you ever seen someone performing an energy cleaning on a person? It's an absolutely hysterical thing to watch!

So my advice would be to attend only if the event itself appeals to you and don't be overly tempted by the theme.

I'd never heard of Burning Man until my 14-year-old daughter told me that she was planning on going to it with "some of the older kids from school." We live in Wisconsin. I asked her to tell me about it. But then I said no anyway.

I am so mean.

"The idea of a seriously debaucherous party does appeal to me... Maybe this year." - Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, #3

Too late - it's an annual festival and it was over a couple of weeks ago. http://www.burningman.com

My son went a few years ago. He described it as being in the middle of the Great Talcum Powder Desert, and the occasional windstorm creates an unbreatheable miasma of dust.

This is actually one music festival I may attend. Watch out!

Hmmm...PZ, the "Dirty" tag certainly fits, especially your mouth. You should try washing it out with soap, now and then. And, the "Hippie" tag isn't far wrong either.

That said, I actually prefer the local (New Zealand) Kiwiburn, which is less idiot-populated, a lot smaller, and arguably more fun.

I'll be in your neck of the woods in November.

When is it?

Also my partner is the Treasurer.

sign me up!

Joe? That you?

Oh, Joe, you're delightful. The minute I read your Prudence McPrissypants post at #46, I flashed on one of my favorite movie lines, from Serial Mom:

"Listen to your filthy mouth, ya fucking whore!"

Good times.

If you do go, PZ, would you please tell the airheads there who insist on showing up at my weirdo party of choice in their shitty hippie-club-kid costumes that Pennsic is for medieval recreators and not just the Trustafarian thing to do between Silverleaf and Burning Man?

Or at least coudja hit them over the head and tell them that if they do show up, they need to leave their shitty hippie Burning Man club-kid costumes at home and bring something that kindasorta looks medieval? Please?

I've just heard on BBC that the Church of England has apologised to Darwin.

"Charles Darwin: 200 years from your birth, the Church of England owes you an apology for misunderstanding you and, by getting our first reaction wrong, encouraging others to misunderstand you still."

I haven't had the time to read the whole essay but you can find it here.

I have been thinking about going for years. I have a brother who has attended the past 8 years or so and always has tales of drug induced reveries, topless parades and various other escapades.

Maybe I'll wear an asshat and go as a creationist.

Um, nah. If you want to exercise your dirty hippiness (as we all should on occasion), go to Mutant Fest instead. Burning Man has become an affair driven almost entirely by capitalism now.

Well, since Nietzsche was mentioned, I may as well be the first to post this Kids in the Hall video:

God is dead

It never fails to amaze me that such an event grew out of a guy going out into the desert and starting a big fire after getting dumped.

We is a crazy species.

#54
That video is coffee out my nose funny!! You owe me a new keyboard.

Weird is good.

Um, nah. If you want to exercise your dirty hippiness (as we all should on occasion), go to Mutant Fest instead. Burning Man has become an affair driven almost entirely by capitalism now.

Or the Rainbow Gathering.

One of my favorites. A bunch of hippies worried about the environment who practically burned down the National Forest they met in near Pinedale WY in the 90's.

being a bit of a dirty hippie myself

HWUT?!

You married your childhood sweetheart. You drink nothing stronger than good beer. You have three kids in college. House, tenure, telly!

GUT! Is this what hippies have been reduced to? You might as well call yourself a Family Ties cosplayer.

As a fellow biologist and experienced "burner" I can strongly recommend the experience. Most of the criticisms here are from those who most probably have never been. It's an impressive mix of hippies, technologists, artists, and other outer-american clades. From a sociological viewpoint, I can with some conviction say that the festival is unlike any other that has ever been. The event really is its own definition, but the gist of it lies in the tagline of "radical creativity and self reliance". I've helped organize a motley crew of scientists in a themecamp of around 50 people the last three years, "trueprophet", and I'd love to see more scientists and science-advocates out there!

Thank the Great Cephalopod for Anselm Levskaya's post! Couldn't agree more. As a longtime (13years) attendee myself, i can honestly say it's an art festival like no other. And though the 'theme' is often gleefully ignored by many attendees, many people take up the concept in their artworks in surprising ways. I predict this year will be a great year for biological and paleontological artworks, and earnestly hope for many trilobite-themed art cars. My partner and i will be doing a large installation about stromatolites, and how they permanently changed the climate. We pretty much spend the entire week riding our bicycles and looking at art.

Hey Interrobang - I see you met the goth children at Pennsic as well...aren't they cuuuute?

Thanks for the fruity update.

I'll check out the flick.

Things to do:

Make crazy movie.
Name it "Electric (fill-in-the-blank tropical fruit)
Profit.

Enjoy.

I really hope you go to Burning Man next year. For the last few years, from my computer in northern Ohio, I have watched the webcast of them burning the man on the Saturday before Labor Day as one of my rituals to say goodbye to summer. Please go and blog about it, and tell them to increase their bandwidth for the webcast.

-Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT | September 15, 2008 8:58 AM
- "Or the Rainbow Gathering.
- One of my favorites. A bunch of hippies worried about the environment who practically burned down the National Forest they met in near Pinedale WY in the 90's."

I performed with a band at one of their gatherings somewhere on a ranch in California years ago... it was like a flashback to 1967 and they worshiped us like we were music gods of some sort. But I loved the braless hippie chicks doing wild spaced out gyrations at the foot of the stage...

Reading that link, and came across this: "Homo erectus, the first human ancestor to walk upright"

Huh? Where did that come from?

I was wondering when you'd find out about the theme PZ. I thought this blog and all the others that are connected with the Tangled Bank the moment I heard it was next year's theme.

As Anselm Levskaya, points out you can't pin Burning Man down to a single culture. Yes there are the woo new agers, and there are the raver club kids, the dirty hippies, the fire performers, the annoying yahoo partiers, the fucko punkass pranksters, and best of all the amazing artists who build everything from massive 8 story climbable sculptures to robotic giraffes to musical fire organs to live-size electrifying games of operation to two story Victorian houses on wheels.

With a ragtag assemblage of 50,000 freaks, avoiding the woo is as easy as ignoring Camp Fairy Wing and instead wandering up and gifting someone a cold beer in exchange for a ride on their giant robot spider art car.

Amen, Colin!

We built our dome this year with the help of a google engineer and a tattooed punk pyromaniac. The experiment is in the culture itself. Burning Man is a blank canvas with which you are able to create whatever the hell you want.

And it's a haven for hardcore science geeks. Woo-woo be damned, there's more worshippers of Buckminster Fuller out there than Ayahuasca.

I went to Pennsic last year. Sadly, I was still taking summer classes, so I couldn't go this year.

Much as I'll confess that, as a 23-year-old, the drunken debauchery in the Bog appeals to me, yeah, some folks aren't even trying. Or they wanna be pirates. Badly done pirates. Although one of the more prominent members of my shire becomes very, very amusingly upset when the topic of these pirates comes up, so I suppose they have entertainment value. ^_^

I also have to laugh because the basic roman dresses I wore were not only more authentic than the nautical stuff, they also were on HELL of a lot simpler to make. (Take two squares, sew up most the sides, pin by neck and at wrist holes, cinch at waist, voila! Takes, like, 30 minutes, and that's only because I suck at sewing and my machine is crap (and, yeah, I use a machine for construction. It's bad otherwise....)).

You know, Colin (#67 above) hit the nail on the head. I wrote the original article about the event jumping the shark, mostly because I was sick of the stupid themes and the over-saturation of so many people that dont understand the basic principals.

The truth is that the event is what you make of it. If you are a hardcore survivalist, you'll probably love the white-out dust storms that can last for hours. If you are a drunken frat boy, there are plenty of naked women. If you like to dance, there are always Boonsa Boonsa camps as far as the ear can hear. But if you like great art or just hanging out with unexpectedly super intelligent people, its there too. Thats the appeal of the place to me. I still go, but I do think its rounded the top of the bell curve as far as culture goes.

Thanks for linking my article!