And it's not showing anywhere near me. In fact, I will be very surprised if it opens anywhere in this rural, religious area…I'll probably have to wait for it to come out on DVD. Religulous is the new movie by Bill Maher, an agnostic who thinks religion is a "load of nonsense", which by all reports is going to mock religion mercilessly — if this hysterical review by a devout fundamentalist is any indication, it's going to be great. Maher, though, isn't exactly an unblemished source with a deep dedication to reason, since he's fallen for some embarrassingly silly altie medicine nonsense before. I'll have to wait to see it before I can judge, which may be a while.
Any of you out there who get a chance will have to leave a comment. Go ahead, you can gloat that you live in a civilized part of the world burgeoning with readily available material goodies that are obtainable with a snap of the fingers (…and an agonizing ride through heavy traffic to park on a monstrous sheet of asphalt and pay exorbitant sums for admission…)
Still, I can have the fun of criticizing the critics. Andrew O'Hehir interviews Maher, and although it's largely a sympathetic review, there's a big chunk in the middle that is the usual aggravating deference to religion that everyone makes without thinking about it.
But as I gently tried to suggest to Maher during our recent phone call, his scattershot and ad hominem attacks against many different forms of religious hypocrisy don't add up to a coherent critique, and he's not qualified to provide one.
"Scattershot" is grossly unfair, since he is attacking religion. Go ahead, stack up Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Scientology, Hinduism, etc. next to each other: it seems to me that the fact that there is no possible rubric for judging the validity of any of them, that they typically contradict each other, and that religious belief is so diverse and so inescapably weird means that it is ridiculous to demand a simple, coherent narrative that addresses the flaws in all of them. There they are, the existence of multiple god-beliefs is sufficient in itself to refute them, and it's perfectly reasonable to expose their various absurdities in brief snippets.
Any serious theologian from the mainstream Christian or Jewish traditions would have eaten his lunch for him, and that's why we don't see anybody like that in this film for more than a second or two.
No, I think it more likely that it is because serious theologians are a) dead boring, b) irrelevant to an extreme degree to most varieties of religious beliefs, and c) are just as silly when their ideas are examined. Except for all those serious theologians who have ended up as atheists, of course.
During their brief appearances, for instance, Vatican Latinist Reginald Foster and astronomer George Coyne, who are both Roman Catholic priests, make it clear that contemporary Catholic theology resists literal readings of Scripture and is not in the least antiscientific. You can find liberal Christians who will argue that the resurrection of Jesus was somewhere between a con game and a dream sequence, and numerous Jews who treat the Torah as legendary material and God as a distant hypothesis.
Yes? And this refutes the contention that religion is absurd how? The only way most religious beliefs can be rationally justified is by running away from them very fast, and then making a delicate and distant wave of appreciation, acknowledging their past role in the intellectual tradition, while denying the substance of their arguments. Fine with me, probably fine with Maher.
It's perfectly legitimate to argue that all such people are putting lipstick on a pig, to coin a phrase -- that they're apologizing for a ruinous and ridiculous body of mythological literature whose influence on human history has been overwhelmingly negative. But Maher's idiots-of-all-nations anthology in "Religulous" doesn't even try to make that case; it's as if he doesn't even know that religion has centuries' worth of high-powered intellection on its side, whether you buy any of it or not.
Now there's a valid criticism of the movie, and until I've seen it, I won't know if the show makes a poor case or not. O'Hehir may be right, but I'm immediately rendered dubious by this justification that "religion has centuries' worth of high-powered intellection on its side". I don't see that at all. I mainly see that religion has had centuries of cultural monopoly, where intellectuals had no choice (and no alternative) but to work within the framework of religion. All the intellectual circle-jerking over religion? Pfft. Nothing useful came of it. Progress came only when smart people started breaking free of the straitjacket.
Maher and Charles' film also doesn't engage the value of religious narrative in moral or existential terms, nor does it even try to address the ubiquitous nature of supernatural and spiritual experience in human life.
I do wish people would knock it off with the automatic bestowal of moral authority on religion. It was the only game in town for millennia, and it didn't make people better — deeply religious cultures have always been as nasty and brutish, if not more so, than more secular cultures, and religious individuals had as much capacity for evil as atheists. Religion gets no edge here.
But OK, I suspect the movie doesn't ask the question of why so many people are religious. So what? It's a comedy-documentary. It's not supposed to answer all questions, especially not tragic-serious ones about the universal human affliction of faith.
But of course this is actually an interview with Maher, and he does answer those questions — so read the whole thing.
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I am not 100% sure but it looks like on the actual website there might be a downloadable version. It had the button for a while but it turns up as an empty link. Maybe that will change now that the movie is actually being released. Yeah Even in the Twin-Cities there's only 2 theaters that I know of that carry it, possibly 3. Unlike freaking Expelled where it was at nearly ALL the theaters including the one less than a mile from where I live. I am SO going to go see if even if the MN atheist group decided not to make it a Reel & Meal night. Pity.
One theatre here in Charleston. unfortunately alllllll the way on the other side of town. Might try and head over there.
Condescension spill on aisle four!
I haven't seen it yet, but then neither has Matt Nisbet, and that hasn't stopped him from slamming it. I'll withhold judgment until I actually see it, but I'm guessing that I'll probably like it.
Quoting from the article:
The parenthetical is either a tone deaf attempt at humor, or the author of the piece is woefully misinformed.
Or maybe... did McCain convert to Islam in the past few days?
Does anyone care what Nisbet has to say anymore?
I saw it on Wednesday and it was much better than I though it would be. He hit on all the major points and it was quite funny.
It dragged a bit in the middle but all in all he did a fine job.
I rate it 8 sins out of 10.
Figures.
I'm going this afternoon to see it. I'll let ya know what I think.
Not only am I going to see it, but I'm bringing along 20 people from my school. Cha-ching! Anyone in the DC area who isn't already on the hook for a screening (or didn't go to the free sneak preview on Wednesday), Bethesda Row Cinema, 7 p.m. Be there!
Well, I hope he keeps it fun. Laughing will work if it's light-hearted, not if it's putting the people themselves down.
At least the timing works out well enough. After the fights over religion, it's time to treat it like the comedy that it is--at least when it's at its best.
Of course it's meant to influence the election, but I wonder how that will work out. It's Obama who likes to talk about religion, but the people offended aren't likely to go for Obama. On the whole, though, I can't see it affecting the election much at all. Documentary movies are for the activists, whose sense of time ought to be long-term.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
I do. I'm enrolled at his school.
/considering taking a class with him next semester
If the bit that's been in all the commercials - where he talks to the guy who plays Jesus at the amusement park says God will eventually destroy Satan and Maher replies "He will. What's he waiting for?" - is representative of the film, it should be GREAT SUCCESS.
Going to see the movie tonight,I have a choice of four movie theaters in the Tampa Bay area.Wonder if any Fundi-wankers will show up to complain,boy I hope so.
I'm so excited! I'm seeing it tonight. It is indeed showing for a night in Durango, CO, which I did not expect. I'll let you all know how it was.
It's a shame that Maher has some other... silly beliefs. I don't think it'll hurt the experience, though.
Mooney, or is even he too smart (or too tired of the derision) to care now?
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
i saw it this summer (film festival pre-release screening), and wasn't impressed. "scattershot" may be necessary due to the subject, but that doesn't make the film any more watchable or interesting. there's no analysis nor any real argumentation, and the jokes really aren't much --- certainly not what i'd expect out of somebody who's made a name for himself as a comedian.
it probably deserved making, at least in order to expose wider audiences to things most folks reading pharyngula will find ordinary and unsurprising --- but for pharyngula readers, there's nothing new there, nor is any of it stated in any particularly novel or insightful way. if you're going to the movies anyway, there's better titles to go see instead. Trouble the Water, Flash of Genius, ...
PZ - Religulous is opening in Winnipeg tonight.
A bunch of us from the Manitoba Humanist Association are going on Monday night. Polo Park theatre. 7:40 pm showing.
Winnipeg's only 4 or 5 hours from Morris. Drop in, why doncha! :-)
I hope there are protesters.
The theatre it is playing at here in Charleston is kind of a hip theatre that serves beer (at least I think its that one).
Protesters, funny movie and a few adult beverages would go well together.
Hey, GregL,
I was born and raised in Durango. I'm bit south of there now, and miss it. Hear the fall colors are starting to get good. Glad there are some Pharyngulites up in thar.
I was looking forward to seeing this and then I heard that it was in limited release. I was dissapointed because what are the odds that it will run in Kentucky. I was shocked and excited when I saw that it was actually playing in one theater here in town. I plan on seeing it at some point this weekend.
I have seen it (exactly how isn't important).
The best one-line summary is this: What Borat did to American culture, Religulous does to religion. The biggest difference is in the comedy style of Sascha Baron Cohen vs. that of Bill Maher.
I found it weird how they describe Foster and Coyne as presenting rational cases for dogma. The film frames them as mavericks -- Coyne is presented opposite young-Earth creationists (and he honestly comes across as rather rational, insofar as religious folk can; reminds me vaugely of the Jesuits my father was taught by) and Foster is met while Maher's ranting about the expensive palaces that the Pope et al occupy being hypocritical (Foster agrees and actually says some rather rude things to the structure he's ostensibly in). Foster in particular got cheers from the (entirely atheistic) crowd I saw it with.
On other, more easily mocked religions, Maher's seen lining up shots of the Mormon temple in Salt Lake City and, just as he begins talking, someone points off to the side -- right on cue, two besuited Mormons approaching to kick him off their lawn (Bill: "Oh, man, ALREADY?"). He also dresses up as a cook and stands in Hyde Park in London ranting and raving about aliens... with subtitles explaining that he's preaching the main tenets of Scientology. (A passerby even gives him a balloon-animal hat in a show of pity.) He visits the First Universal Church of Kantheism (great acronym) and gets stoned with its founder. He visits, in person, a fellow who believes himself the literal second coming of Christ and has quite a large following, which leads to some interesting discussion. I personally found his Jewish interviewees the funniest: One rants against Israel (while being shown greeting Ahmadinejad!), and another creates odd Macgyver-esque gizmos designed to allow Jews to get around the "no working on Sabbath" requirement via loopholes.
In Bill's credit, he NEVER claims to have the answers -- he openly preaches doubt, which I applaud wholeheartedly (even if he doesn't hold it to himself on other fronts unrelated to the film; altie-meds come to mind) -- and there are long segments of him talking in a van between stops where he admits points where he was caught off-guard (for instance, a Jesus actor draws a Trinity analogy to the different states of water which catches Bill off-guard briefly, and he explains why). And although the whole film is mostly humorous, there's a large segment at the end where he lays out the reason why he's doing this: it's a no-holds-barred assault on religious-motivated violence that can be summed up as "Grow up, or die."
My biggest beef with it is that he obviously cut the interviews to be funny. This, plus his known technique of not being honest about the interviews beforehand (i.e. often his targets wouldn't know they would be speaking to Maher until just before he came on), worries me in much the same way Expelled did. However, Religulous is much better at it than Expelled (since it never posits conspiracies and mostly tries to be funny), and if Maher releases the full, unedited interviews it would remove this criticsm entirely.
All in all, I'd highly recommend it, if you can find it. It isn't perfect, but it'll stand up well.
(Oh, and check out the September 30 Daily Show. Maher's on most of the show talking about it, and they show the Scientology segment I was talking about above.)
On the Daily Show, he defined atheism like ignorant religious people do; that is, without regard to what the people who actually consider themselves atheists believe. Maher doesn't seem like the brightest person in the world, so I wouldn't be surprised if his movie isn't all that great.
PZ, I can't wait until your book on religion comes out. You have an impressive arsenal of ready answers for theistic excuse-making. I can't wait to read a book that preemptively shuts up the windbag apologists. Please tell me it's almost ready.
One of these things is not like the other:
"Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Scientology, Hinduism, etc. next to each other"
Only one was started by a convicted felon sci-fi writer with the intent to get rich. Only one keeps it's teachings secret until you have parted with hundreds of thousands of dollars. Investigate the cult of greed: $cientology.
It is showing here in Des Moines smack dab in the middle of Iowa. There are about 30 of us going to go see it. Bill Maher does have some attachment to some woo, but with religion he and I agree. Many see him as arrogant, yet that is what makes him funny to me.
Apparently Maher is of the opinion that atheists are as dogmatic and faith-driven as the rest of the god-botherers.
"I don't say in the movie that I'm an atheist. I don't like that term, because I think it mirrors the certitude of religion. I say I don't know." From the AV Club's interview with Bill Maher.
That fundamental misunderstanding of atheism, combined with the fact that he's a self-righteous prick (yes, sometimes he's funny; yes, oftentimes he's right; but he's always a dick), pretty much insures that I'm not going to bother seeing his film. Apparently it revolves around taking the piss out of religious folks, and I can do that for free.
Used to live in that "area" myself. Missing it this time of year for sure.
FWIW, the Onion A.V. Club reviewer hated it.
http://www.avclub.com/content/cinema/religulous
It's showing here, and we're off to see it tmw night, but i'm torn---maher gets religion right much of the time, but after blaming religious folks for magical thinking, he engages in his own viz medicine.
I am going to see it this evening with the CFI:Michigan group in Grand Rapids. 7:00PM Show. come on down if you are in the area.
I'll be seeing the 7:00 PM showing at Angelika, on West Houston tonight. If any other NY Pharyngulites will be there, be sure to flash the secret sign.
The same applies to you, PZ. You were on Gould's side in the "Darwinian fundamentalism" affair. I think your criticisms of Darwin's Dangerous Idea are totally unreasonable, yet I don't feel the need bring this up whenever you should happen to make fun of religion.
It's playing at several theaters in the Washington DC area. I hope to see it this weekend. Although I always get the urge to smack that smirk off his face, I still enjoy his humor. And, of course, I like almost anything that criticizes religion.
Well, it kept fringe pundit Brnt Bzll distracted
from Obama bashing. Bzll also wrote a very amusing review of Expelled. He has no sense of humor.
I'll assume the film has flaws, but the interesting thing is that it's apparently going to have a market. Sure, people think their own form of religion is different than the kooky ones, but the spell which forbids criticizing religion at all is being broken.
While I wish Maher wasn't repeating the religious slur that "atheists KNOW there is no God," the attitude of skepticism he's bringing to the entire topic is just one more way to mainstream nonbelievers.
Sure, they can argue that he's wrong, or that we're wrong. But they have to make a case. It's no longer a given that of course everyone believes in God, everyone is religious, everyone is spiritual and accepts supernatural and transcendent narratives as explanations -- those who don't are on the fringe, and can be ignored.
Heheheh. I want to see this. But will it come to Sheboygan?
its only playing in 2 theaters in sacramento for the entire following week,
so maybe ill wait to see what you all that see it think, before a drive way out to see it
PZ, it's showing in Fargo, Century 10. Check the Forum's site for times.
That's pretty much my feeling as well. He'd be a much better comedian if he didn't spend so much time laughing at his own jokes and smirking about how clever he is. Even when he is funny and clever it's extremely irritating.
From the review... comedian Bill Maher's new movie attacking Christianity and religion, is full of lies, half-truths, false assumptions, logical contradictions and fallacies, distortions, intolerance, prejudice, bigotry, arrogance, ignorance, and hypocrisy. Opening Oct. 3, the movie is a pathetic propaganda piece that will warp the hearts and minds of the gullible and the ignorant. It is also very poorly researched and argued. Sounds more like a description of organized religion than a review.
Indeed he does, and I'm torn too. PZ pretty much soft-pedaled just how loony Maher is when it comes to medicine. He's done way more than just fallen for "some" altie nonsense; he's gone whole hog as a true believer in many forms of woo. Indeed, he's a germ theory denialist who thinks Pasteur recanted on his deathbed, a supporter of PETA, an alt-med maven who thinks that disease is due to "aggregate toxicity," and an antivaccinationist who thinks that aluminum in flu shots causes Alzheimer's disease.
What a ridiculous unsupported premise: "ubiquitous nature of supernatural ... experience." If so many of these supernatural things are occurring, why are they not documented in a rigorous fashion? I mean even a few of them?
What he's really talking about are experiences that people attribute to being supernatural, but that they don't understand, or that they don't have enough information about and etc.
I am in that movie. Bill Maher came to Amsterdam to interview me for it and you can see Bill and me smoking pot in that film, seriously.
If I remember right, and I believe I do, Ol' Bill believes in ghosts.
My guess is that it makes more money than Expelled. Not showing in the Daytona Beach area, so I will have to wait until it comes out on video.
Bill Maher, an agnostic
An agnostic? I find it hard to believe Bill Maher is afraid to call himself an atheist.
Definitely I want to see Religulous. This is what the world needs more than anything, ridicule of religious stupidity.
... you can gloat that you live in a civilized part of the world burgeoning with readily available material goodies that are obtainable with a snap of the fingers (...and an agonizing ride through heavy traffic to park on a monstrous sheet of asphalt ...
Actually in the civilized parts of the world cars are unnecessary. There are buses, subways, and elevated trains.
BTW, Bill Maher is the most arrogant and "full of himself" person I have ever met in my life, he thinks he is REALLY FUNNY (in capitals) but he did not realize that we have a different look at what's funny or not here in Europe, for one, we have a more intellectual approach to humor, not the simplistic-American slapstick way he's got to offer and we don't think that lauching at our own jokes is as funny as he thinks it is.
Apart from that, I personally think it's pretty hypocrite to bash the Abrahamic teachings as being rediculous (which they are) and at the same time defending the zionist state of Israel which is based on those same redicuous fables. I didn't get the chance to address him at that point because he got stoned out of his mind during our conversaton and lost the plot a couple of times before he suddenly ran off. This was after I mentioned that I had my doubts about the official 9/11 story, I was surprised that he defended that official story with such a loaded emotional outburst as he did towards me when I mentioned that it was their own CIA who trained Osama Bin Laden and that, at the end of the day only a new investigation could find out what really happened that day and who really was responsible.
Anyway, when I told him I didn't buy the official story and have my doubts untill many open questions are answered he got angry and ended our talk. The dude is also over-sensitive when Israel is mentioned, funny for a guy who bashes the very roots of that nation; Abrahamic based Religion.
I'm going to see it tonight. I'll let you know what I think.
PZ did you get a chance to read the open letter I wrote you?
http://atheist-monkey.blogspot.com/2008/10/gift-certificate-to-pz-myers…
Cheers,
Pete
Wait, we have a secret sign? How come nobody ever told me this? What, we put our hands together with 8 fingers pointing down and wiggling like an octopus? or all ten fingers as a squid? Or is it something more symbolic of our disbeliefs, like the 2 finger salute to heaven?
It's playing at the Flicks in downtown Boise. You can catch the early show at 1:00 for a bargain $6.50. And they have an excellent selection of beer (bottled and on-tap) and wine that you can enjoy with the movie.
http://theflicksboise.com
NOTE: I am in no way affiliated with the above-mentioned theater, I just happen to think they kick ass.
It's playing down the street from me here in Pasadena. I suppose I'll stroll down there this afternoon.
Did I mention it's 74 degrees outside and sunny?
It's playing at 5 places in the Twin Cities, according to City Pages. My days are free for the time being, so maybe I'll go check it out.
List here
You'll notice in the linked article (and others you'll see) the invocation of the need to speak to the Courtiers rather than the hoi polloi, those eminent people who have the sophisticated arguments for god. You know, like frozen waterfalls and "mysterious ways". Funny how these sophisticated arguments always end up looking so stupid -- perfect example, that poor rabbi that mean Hitchens guy took apart. And I mean "poor rabbi" in the Westian Batman sense: "Poor deluded child".
Maybe he just doesn't like paranoid anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists. I know I don't.
My wife and I have to drive about an hour to the nearest theater...we'll be seeing it tomorrow...
Case in point:
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1847053,00.html?cnn=yes
Foreclosures: Did God Want You to Get That Mortgage?
Somehow I get the feeling that it is mostly bastards like these preachers of the Prosperity Gospel who are going to benefit the most from the so called economic bailout.
I'm holding off on seeing Religulous until I read what y'all have to say about it.
On a side note, the wingnut film An American Carol was not screened for critics prior to its release today. Just looking at the trailer I could tell it was going to be piece of crap.
LOL... the very first line of the review...
[blockquote]"Religulous," comedian Bill Maher's new movie attacking Christianity and religion, is full of lies, half-truths, false assumptions, logical contradictions and fallacies, distortions, intolerance, prejudice, bigotry, arrogance, ignorance, and hypocrisy."[/blockquote]
Well, duhhhh... of course it is. It's about religion.
I was surprised to see the movie is being pretty widely released out here in godless Seattle. I found 7 theaters showing it, 3 of them just in the eastern suburbs.
I was planning on going to see it today, but when I pulled up the listings, I found that only 1 theater is showing it in the north Atlanta suburbs, and that one is 30 miles away.
I will try to catch it next week though.
*sigh*
ABC News just had a big story on quite a different movie: "Fireproof", a christian low-budget film (with Kirk "banana boy" Cameron, naturally) that opened nationally at #4, with 6.8 million bucks in ticket sales.
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/story?id=5941016&page=1
Holy shit... literally.
Wow...Bill "Anal Sex" Donahue and Rick "Man on Dog" Santorum will be all over Maher for this movie, no doubt organizing angry protests outside of theaters where it's shown and writing thousands of threatening letters (helping pump up visibility and viewers-I'm sure Bill M will be thrilled).
And PJ, you're off the hook for awhile until you defile another sacred religious object!
PS...don't defile a Koran...you don't want a jihad shadowing your life here...
Anon @#62
I've been reading about Fireproof over at Ray Comfort's blog, only because I am a masochist with too much time on my hands, but the major thing they've been touting is that Kirk brought in his real life wife to use a double for his film wife, so he wouldn't sin by "lusting" after another woman by kissing his co-star.
The stupid - it burns!!!
(...and an agonizing ride through heavy traffic to park on a monstrous sheet of asphalt and pay exorbitant sums for admission...)
Interborough Rapid Transit, baby!
Any Pharynguloids watching this at the Angelika should stop by S.O.B.'s on Varick St to shake some godless booty after the film. I'd join you, but I am working every weekend this bleepin' month.
The Science Pundit (#4):
He did the same thing for John Allen Paulos's book Irreligion, as I recall. It's all in a day's work for the Marquis de Coiffure.
"Holy shit... literally."
Half literally. The holy part works, but the film still isn't literal shit.
"Down with this sort of thing"
"Careful now"
I read the NY Times review last night, deciding to go see it if I get the chance...if it makes it to Oz!
Couldn't access the reader reviews linked though.
Believers, Skeptics and a Pool of Sitting Ducks
http://movies.nytimes.com/2008/10/01/movies/01reli.html?th&emc=th&em
Tuesday night, CBC's George Stromboulopoulos on The Hour interviewed Larry Charles (director) and Bill Maher. So you can get a feel for their style. Frankly, I think Maher takes too many cheap shots.
It's going to be at:
Landmark Edina 4 Theatre
3911 West 50th Street, Edina, MN
That's less than 5 miles from my house.
We should organize a group outing!?
As to...
...the NYTimes reviewer says...
Image of Simon Cowell appears on toast!!!
http://www.theargus.co.uk/uk_national_entertainment/3727754.Toast_treat…
Yes, I know it's a marketing stunt but when is it not?
Also, re FishyFred #12 - I'm sure you'll make a great hair dresser.
I'm hoping this comes out in Australia, I really want to see this.
Frankly, I think Maher takes too many cheap shots.
Hey, he may be shooting fish in a barrel, but fish paste can be a toothsome side dish once in a while.
Somebody just posted Maher's latest HBO special on you tube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwKpwBk8ER0
I just saw the movie. VERY funny! It was better than I had expected.
People say that he just took cheap shots (easy to do though), but he interviewed Ken Ham, Francis Collins, George Coyne, and tons of other people. So he really hit all over the spectrum. So saying that he just interviews the craziest of the crazies is not accurate at all.
-Brattleboro, VT
Only showing at one theatre within 50 miles of my home. Green Hills mall in Nashville. We'll go either tomorrow or next weekend.
I like Maher on most issues, but he has equated atheism to religion on several occasions. Still, I enjoy his criticisms of religion, and he makes me laugh.
#62 Anon
I see things!
I see Religulous's box office position trumping Firestorm's
in practically no time.
A reader comment from the "hysterical review by a devout fundamentalist":
Bill Maher obviously has not been humbled by God
This stupidity is why I have so much contempt for Christians, no matter how moderate they think they are. Humbled by God? Humbled by an imaginary fairy? There is nobody more insane and childish and just plain stupid than Christians.
Just got back from watching it. Hilarious and informative.
Amazingly Religulous is playing here in Oklahoma City. And I haven't heard any bitching from the local bible-thumping majority.
#79
Erm...see it trumping that Fireproof movie too! :p
I wonder which movie, Expelled or Religulous, will make the most money.
first of all, it is going to be playing here in salt lake city, so i amazed you can't find it everywhere.
"Maher and Charles' film also doesn't engage the value of religious narrative in moral or existential terms,"
you know why? there is NO value in moral terms from religion. there are moral people, some of whom are religious, some of whom aren't. most of the moral thinkers in religion where horrendously crippled by the time and effort they put in trying to find a way that god can be excused despite the horrors of the world. morality made almost no real progress, like science, until it left religion.
if there is nothing to engage, why expect him to do so?
I'll snort along with you PZ. No showing of it in sight here in Fundieville.
If it comes anywhere near here I'm going. Hell, I sat through that tripe PZ stared in. *grin*
Just for my own clarification, when you have people like these: Dr. Ted Baehr, Publisher of MOVIEGUIDE®, and Dr. Tom Snyder, Editor, both associated with Christian Worldview, Network are their doctorates in theology, so that they really are witch doctors?
Or is it just that they come across that way?
Saw Bill Maher on the Daily Show, and he seemed half reasonable though, and with a sense of humour.
"One of these things is not like the other:
"Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Scientology, Hinduism, etc. next to each other""
actually, to be fair, Buddhism also doesn't belong, as modern buddhism is pretty close to a sort of spiritual atheism.
now your comments on scientology.... well, yeah, dead on. ;-)
I'm on my way out to see it at this very moment. I can't wait... the previews look hilarious.
I'm dragging my friends along too. They're not believers, by any means... but they don't have the same disgust for religion as I do - so I'm hoping to change that, slowly, starting tonight.
My Review:
I took a friend from work to the 12:05 (noon) viewing at the Muvico theaters at Channelside in downtown Tampa, FL.
This was the very first showing in the Tampa area. There are 4 separate theaters in the Tampa area, that I know of, showing Religulous.
There were 7 people in the entire theater, including me and my friend! Not a good turnout, but is was in the middle of a work day on Friday.
Breakdown:
- 3 middle aged men were laughing their asses off in front of us. They were obviously enjoying Maher "stick it to the fundies"
- an elderly couple sat down to our left. I was under the assumption that they may have been from a local church, checking out the film or something. They sat quietly, and after the films was over...sat shell-shocked. They were not even talking to each other. They just watched the 5 of us leave. We were all saying things like "WOW - That was great!" "Maher will need a wheelbarrow to carry around those balls of his!"
If you read Pharyngula, you should see the film.
It was a 6 out of ten for production value, but a 9 out of ten for content.
I do not usually laugh out loud at movies...but I must have laughed out loud 20 times in this film!! Maher is a riot!
If anything, it is a statement. Bill Maher made this movie to "kick the non-religious in the pants".
Stand up, come out, do not be afraid to show that you think religion is bullshit. Go to the movie, and try to take someone that is "on-the-fence". It will open their eyes!
Hey FERRE, here's a nice little clip from the movie where you and Bill got high, and your hair catches on fire. Man, you guys were high...
http://www.cinematical.com/2008/10/03/exclusive-clip-from-bill-mahers-r…
John
Interesting watching him on the promo tour through the talk shows,Ive seen him on Kimmel,the View,Daily Show,few others.
Recurring meme : Im not an atheist.All Im saying is,I dont know,and how can you be sure? WTF?
Did he pick that agnostic thing up after talking to Dawkins on his show? Or maybe its just being careful not to lose viewers by scaring them away in saying hes one of those evil atheist.Which would make him a coward.
I live in Kansas and was able to find three theaters that were showing it all throughout the day. =)
It was hilarious. And powerful. And got a big ovation when the credits came up.
Does anyone care what Nisbet has to say anymore?
when AAAS finally stops lending him an ear to spout drivel, and encouraging him to formulate strategy and head up meetings to discuss education, THEN I'll be happy.
until then, he at least has one ear too many IMO.
The movie was stupid but entertaining.
What I mean to say is you won't learn any new arguments, or anything new at all really, but you will laugh. I do suggest all atheists and agnostics see it though.
One criticism I have is I think the ending/grand finale was a little over the top; complete with dramatic LotR style music, 9/11 footage, and a nuke. It's typical of a "call to arms" style ending I guess.
Oh yeah and the theater where I live was packed and at the end everyone clapped. Which surprised me considering I live in Florida, though in a college town.
Religulous is incredibly witty, poignant, and gut bustingly funny.
Ok. I just saw the movie. It was hilarious. He's trying to champion doubt and thinking about the facts. All the humour is just hearing the responses of the religious people. It's interesting to hear people "try" and rationalize their beliefs.
My two favourite parts were 1) when he was talking to the puerto rican second coming of jesus and 2) when he's talking to the surprisingly honest senior vatican priest outside of the vatican.
Armond White wrote a critical review of the film in New York Press, and commented: "To scoff at the foundations of charity, justice and love that hold people together, that's what's ridiculous."
Looks like Maher touched a nerve. Does Armond White realise that religion is NOT foundations of any of those? It's just a a manipulator.
I'm afraid I'm just not following you here. How is PZ disagreeing with you over what amounts to literary criticism "the same" as Maher's public displays of anti-vax buffoonery?
The complaint about Maher is that although he claims to be a skeptic and rationalist, he is often found embracing unadulterated weapons-grade woo. Could you explain to me how that is "the same" as these things you feel PZ has done?
Here's Ebert's review: http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081002/REVI…
You can tell that he liked the film, but doesn't want to "fan the flames of a holy war".
I guess Ebert doesn't want to ruin his Movie Reviewer career by being too openly honest.
The more I think about it, the more impressed I am that Bill Maher made this film. It took a lot of guts...and I'll bet some you you reading this, know that you do not possess this type of intestinal fortitude.
Love'em or hate'em, Bill Maher just earned my respect.
John
Just got back from seeing it. It wasn't as funny as I had hoped. The filmography was fairly bad. It was a LOT of clipped pieces. Even during interviews it would cut to all these different shots and after a while kind of made the atmosphere a little faked. All and All I am glad I went to see it. The theater in Edina was PACKED! I couldn't believe it. We got there five minutes early and we barely found a spot to sit.
Oh my favorite part was when there was a clip of McCain talking about how the US was founded on Christan principal and a good deal of the crowd jeered and squirmed with anger.
I just got back from seeing the movie...It was fantastic, very funny and very well done, I live in the Philly burbs, and although it's not playing everywhere, it was easy to find a showing. Our theater was packed also, and it got applause at the end too. No protesters though, that was a tad disappointing!
Just saw the movie and I thought it was great! While it doesn't really dissect every religion in detail Maher does a good job of showing why religion is ridiculous. Plus, tons of laughs. Everything from Jesus getting slapped in the face at just the right time, to a Vatican priest that admits just about everything in Catholicism is bullshit. I haven't heard an entire audience laugh like that at a movie in a long time. I was also amazed to see no one protesting or objecting to it which was nice too. I fully expected the guy here in Milwaukee with the "mobile" evangelical set up to be driving around the block(anyone from the brew city knows what I'm talking about). Guess he couldn't afford the gas. So at least there's one good thing about the price of gas. Anyway go see it, now!
Ouchimoo - you are correct about the filmography being choppy and strange. I think it was on purpose. I'm no producer, but it was intended to create a feeling of "strangeness" or "fakeness". It kinda goes with the theme. There are times when the audio even fluctuates (during the ex-Mormon interviews) and I found myself looking back at the projector to see it it was on fire or something! ;-)
I'm curious as to the viewers reactions to the film. It's a neat social experiment.
What were people saying after the film?
Was it just a theater full of atheists?
Were people angry? Were they giggling all the way to their cars?
Did it spark post movie debates in the hallways?
I know allowed me to "find" a couple more non-believers at my work, by listening to their comments when I told them I went to see Religulous during lunch!
No problems finding the movie here in Toronto. I went to see a matinee. Not much of a crowd, although given the time of day that probably didn't mean much. A lot of laughter from those who did attend.
I found the movie quite entertaining. Maher's point that we could all do with a little more doubt seems irrefutable. Vis a vis the argument of whether the greatest killer in history has been religion or atheism, I think it's important to note that all mass killings were perpetrated by people who suffered from a surfeit of certainty.
"I see Religulous's box office position trumping Firestorm's
in practically no time."
I kinda doubt it. It's playing all all the Regal megaplexes in the Boise area, whereas Religulous is only playing at The Flicks (indie cinema, tiny theaters). Plus, one is a documentary, the other a narrative.
I wish Religulous could have gone up against Expelled in the theaters, but ahwhaddyagonnado.
Theater was about 2/3 full in the Florida college town where I saw this movie; everybody seemed to get a lot of laughs.
Religulous is very fast-paced for a documentary devoted to one guy and his opinions: lots of rapid cuts and interspersing of movie clips, etc. A second viewing would surely reveal a lot "missed the first time"; pre-MTV fogeys such as myself may find the intensity excessive. Otoh, Religulous meets the core standards of modern American film-making: Explosions? check. Tits? check.
Most of the interviewees will probably feel the editing exploited &/or distorted what they said (especially the "ex-gay" preacher who explicitly refused to participate in a bible-bashing flick). It's curious that the only two Catholics to appear on-screen come across very positively, and the Jewish mainstream dodges Maher's verbal bullets as well (but maybe not so strange, as Maher discloses his father was C-ic and mother J-ish). No pitches for medical, dietetic or other woo were detectable.
Stick around through the credits for a nice closing riff.
It was good.
I just saw it tonight and it was good. There needs to be more movies like that.
#45, you're in Daytona Beach? Me too! And yeah, it sucks it's not playing here, but not much good ever plays here, so I'm not terribly surprised.
I generally find Bill Maher pretty funny, and anything that pokes fun at religion is aces in my book, but I was annoyed that he sorta dissed atheists on the Daily Show, perpetuating one of those tiresome arguments the wackos always use against us. So I'll definitely see the film if and when I can, but I'll try to forget about the annoying stuff as I'm doing so.
"Stick around through the credits for a nice closing riff."
Crap. What did I miss?!
Also, here's an explanation of the filming technique by Larry Charles (LC), the Director.
http://mgoer.blogspot.com/2008/09/tragedy-of-religulous-man.html
Excerpt:
Q: Fair enough. But did you learn anything, either technically or tactically, while making Borat that came in handy with Religulous?
LC: Yes. On Borat, we developed a filmmaking style that was very simple, very stripped-down, a very small-footprint style that was something I applied to Religulous as well.
Q: By "small footprint," do you just mean a small crew?
LC: Yeah, our crew on Religulous was everybody that could fit in a van. There were no chairs, no crafts services, no glitter or glitz. Everybody had to get in the van, jump out, start filming, jump back in, and drive away. And that enabled us to get into places that we ordinarily wouldn't have been able to -- and to be in places where we didn't belong, because we were so inconspicuous.
Q: What is your role on a film like this as a director? Are you guiding Bill Maher's "performance" to any extent?
LC: The way I look at it is that Bill and I are making a film together, and that's the feel that the movie should have. We're driving along, I'm talking to him in the van, we're hanging out, we're talking to people, we're laughing. My role in Borat and on this movie is to do whatever's necessary to get the movie made. And that encompasses a lot of things between choosing angles. There's a lot of X-factors on a movie like this that you can't predict until you actually do it.
Q: One thing about the film that I did have misgivings about was that technique you employ of interpolating old movie clips and subtitles into the interviews to undercut what the people are saying. Could you talk a bit about what's behind those choices?
LC: Well, I shot about 400 hours of film, and I have about 14.5 hours cut. So in the editing room, when we started to make choices about what to use, we decided to use those techniques when we thought they were somehow illuminating. And we thought they had to be earned. I could go through each of those moments and tell you why they exist, but I'll give you an example. Take the interview with Jeremiah Cummings, who's the African-American preacher who couldn't quote the Bible properly.
cont...
I'd like to see this movie for a little laugh, but here there is not the slightest chance...
It doesn't looks like a very profound or artistic movie but a funny one. However here critizice chritiany is off limits.
For instance you see, here is still controversial The Last Temptation of Jesus Christ, and the Catholic Church, mounts a great scandal wherever someone talks about it.
Just returned home from seeing it with MAJeff at the Loew's on the Boston Common. We both found it entertaining. Theater was almost full and people applauded at the end.
There were protesters outside. It took me a few moments to realize that they were protesting not this one but Blindness, the new film based on the Saramago novel.
I'm exhausted, but will try to write more about it tomorrow.
@John
At the theater where I was, the audience seemed to be enjoying the film. I don't know if they were all atheists or not. There were no protesters. No one I noticed seemed angry. I did hear some discussion in the halls afterwards, but no debates.
But OK, I suspect the movie doesn't ask the question of why so many people are religious.
The answer is so obvious the question doesn't need to be asked. People are religious because they are gullible and stupid, and most of all because they are cowards. They can't exist without having a childish belief in heaven. They are too cowardly to grow up and face facts. This is true of all religious people. The idea there are moderate religious people is bullshit. Anyone who believes in heaven is a cowardly idiot, and virtually all religious people believe in it.
I just got back from seeing it. It's like "Root of All Evil" but with more laughs. While Dawkins left me feeling scared and angry, Maher just left me laughing. Maher knows exactly what to say and how to say it, and I strongly recommend this movie to anyone who likes seeing religion being laughed at.
I don't know with Bill Maher. He has a lot of liberal views that are great, but he mixes them up with so many douchebag things at the same time that its hard to ever fully get behind him. For example he has a major beef with women who nurse in public, and I'm sorry but if you find nursing offensive you're an idiot. And Bill Maher is one of those idiots. So my support for him is tepid at best.
Just got back home from seeing it, and it was great.
I saw it in Philly, and the theater was nearly filled to capacity.
The best thing I can say about it is that it was consistently funny throughout. My biggest worry was that it would turn out to be too preachy, but it didn't. Hilarious all the way through, with a little preach thrown into the end.
Definitely go see it.
John @ # 110: Crap. What did I miss?!
Mostly another few lines from Maher's dialog with his sister and mother (the latter being sharp-witted and someone I'd've liked to've seen more of, but who won't be making any more guest appearances unless channeled by a helpful psychic, alas.
Expanding a little further on the movie's editing: any given interview is likely to include sardonic commentary via subtitles, snips from movies (anything from Scarface to de Mille) & songs, excerpts from interviews with other people, Maher talking-head monologues, and then back to the original interview - but all with a clear if often indirect point relevant to what was just said, so the effect is confusing but not really chaotic. I shudder to think what this technique will yield in less-talented hands.
I saw it tonight with a friend of mine at the New Neon Movies in Dayton, OH.
As my friend put it: "I didn't lean anything I didn't already know, but it was funny!"
Maher himself said in an interview that the film was intended as a call to action to those 16%, as he put it in the film, that identify themselves as non-religious. He drove that point home in the final minutes of the film.
My take: Very funny, not preachy (until the end), and gave you some thoughts to chew on after it was all over.
Will it have the impact he's hoping for? We'll all know soon enough.
I can still remember a comment and a question Maher made and asked while he still had his show on ABC.
You can't measure the speed of light!
What has science done for us lately?
Things may have changed since then, but I doubt it. He's not a very good representative for rational thought.
Lucky sonsabitches in Tampa. I'm in Polk county and the nearest theater showing this film is, as best I can determine, in Winter Park.
Saw it today and thought it was laugh out loud funny.
I, too, have a problem with Maher on his understanding of what an atheist is, and I wish someone would set him straight.
Just got back from the theater (only 2 in the Dallas area showing it, both art-house types, and the one we went to was showing it on two screens). The theater was almost full, my wife and I had to sit way up front because we got there halfway through the previews.
I tried to watch this movie with the mindset that most of my friends and co-workers would watch it with; that of a person who was raised with religion, think faith is a virtue, believe in God, but don't take it very seriously or order their lives around that belief. In other words, most of my friends and acquaintances are casual, non-practicing Christians or cultural Muslims, none would claim to be atheist or agnostic (this is Texas after all), and I wanted to view the film and see if would be persuasive to the casual/cultural Christian/Muslim.
I was pleasantly surprised to see that it might. It was certainly very funny. I laughed out loud many times, and could visualize my friends doing the same. I almost saw two movies in this; the actual encounters, and Maher's commentary in between. I thought Maher's commentary made the movie much funnier, but the movie might have had more of an impact on the moderately religious without it. SImply letting the silliness and hypocrisy of the beliefs of his interviewees stand on their own is very powerful.
I can see some validity to some of the criticisms that he focused more on the lunatic fringe views, but I think he did a good job of equating the certainty of their beliefs with the same (though less obnoxious) certainty of religious moderates. In the end though, I think this was done well enough to get a few folks to really begin scrutinizing some of their indoctrinated, childhood, fairy-tale beliefs. Even if it doesn't, it'll get them laughing at some of those beliefs (at least the ones that belong to the "other" religions, I did hear a "Man, those Mormons believe some crazy shit" comment in the post-movie urinal line), and that's a good start.
Saw it in downtown Santa Cruz in the nice big artsy theater with my gal, daughter, co-worker and mostly full theater. Everyone laughed (except the couple in front of me) and had a great time. I will highly recommend it to my friends. Not my auntie yet. Still working on her.
"Grow up or die"
Just saw it. I've gotta say: he was actually fairly respectful to most of the people he interviewed, despite them being absolutely batshit insane (with the exception of the Jews for Jesus guy... Bill was a bit of a jerk to him).
I hope this is a decent call to arms for non-believers... because it's about time.
I think two theaters in the Phoenix area are showing it. Not much, considering we're the 5th-largest city in the country. I wasn't rushing out to see it anyway, but I'll surely rent it when it's on Blu-Ray.
Saw the movie, and Maher is a bigot.
At one point basically says that a Jewish conspiracy is the reason why we have oil and terrorism problems, and the middle east situation is all the Jews fault.
Reminds me of Dawkins talking about the "notorious Jewish Lobby" running the US.
Here is the unedited first paragraph of the "hysterical review":
"Religulous," comedian Bill Maher's new movie attacking Christianity and religion, is full of lies, half-truths, false assumptions, logical contradictions and fallacies, distortions, intolerance, prejudice, bigotry, arrogance, ignorance, and hypocrisy. Opening Oct. 3, the movie is a pathetic propaganda piece that will warp the hearts and minds of the gullible and the ignorant. It is also very poorly researched and argued.
With a few substitutions, this throaty grievance is miraculously transformed into a spot-on assessment:
"The Bible," comedian Yahweh's old book extolling Christianity and religion, is full of lies, half-truths, false assumptions, logical contradictions and fallacies, distortions, intolerance, prejudice, bigotry, arrogance, ignorance, and hypocrisy. Opening roughly 1500 years ago, the book is a pathetic propaganda piece that has warped the hearts and minds of the gullible and the ignorant. It is also very poorly researched but, owing to much baroque prose and lovely poetry, ingeniously argued.
Little wonder that the title of the review includes the word "hypocrisy" twice.
He's not a very good representative for rational thought.
I have to agree.
He is funny and insightful often enough to be watchable, though (in fact, I usually do).
I'm sure I'll grab the R5 when it comes on line.
I just saw the movie. I really enjoyed it, although it was uncomfortable at times because I know people really believe some of that crap. I highly recommend it! I am surprised Rotten Tomatoes only gave it a 62%!
" where he talks to the guy who plays Jesus at the amusement park says God will eventually destroy Satan and Maher replies "He will. What's he waiting for?" - is representative of the film, it should be GREAT SUCCESS."
The Jesus amusement park is funny enough by itself. Still if a group and build a dinosaur amusement park and call it a museum ?
OT:
OJ is guilty:
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-na-oj4-2008oct04,0,76…
what a long, strange tale it's been.
Did God Want You to Get That Mortgage?
WTF? Is there something in the water in the states?
I stopped listening to him back before I started listening to him. ;-) Seriously though, I only knew about his review because it was on the front page of Scienceblogs when I went there yesterday.
Some commenter over at Hemant's blog once said that Nisbet has done for framing what he accuses Dawkins and Myers of having done for atheism and science. I would take that one step further. (DISCLOSURE: I'm a big fan of framing. George Lackoff is a hero to me. I think PZ's post a month ago about how to answer questions about evolution at a social gathering was an excellent example of good framing.) I would say that Nisbet has done a poor job of framing Framing Science. If he can't even frame his own field effectively, why the hell should I trust him to frame science?
Also, I just got back from Religulous. Over all, I thought it was a very good movie. The two biggest surprises to me were that Andrew Newberg (Templeton Prize hack) actually came off looking quite rational, as did the Vatican Astronomer. I found the movie very entertaining.
I was worried going in, because I had heard that the producers had used Borat tactics to get people to agree to interviews. While the film made it obvious that this was true, I highly respect the fact that the film didn't try to hide the fact that people were "tricked" into participating.
My biggest complaint was that the most effective part of the movie (for swaying undecideds) was the ending. Unfortunately, the brunt of the movie played to the "already rational" and undecideds who might have been swayed by the arguments, would not be around during the Electoral College vote.
Just saw it in a packed Seattle theater. I went with a group of 30+ folks from a local atheist/agnostic meetup group here.
Hilarious. Great crowd response (I love Seattle!).
I don't know if it was the intent, but it seems to parody "Expelled!" somewhat. The humor of the stock footage jump cuts and the choppy reaction-shot editing seemed to work better here. But then, I am probably biased.
Although, I felt it was a little have-handed towards the end, Bill Marr manages to keep on topic and avoids some of his less reasonable world views.
My daughter (11) saw an ad for the movie and asked to see it. Unfortunately it's rated 'R' ("clips of adult films" among other stuff). Too bad. Kids need to be able to think differently about religion - and so much of what is produced for children teaches/reinforces superstitious thinking.
Andrew O'Hehir in Salon:
"But as I gently tried to suggest to Maher during our recent phone call, his scattershot and ad hominem attacks against many different forms of religious hypocrisy don't add up to a coherent critique, and he's not qualified to provide one."
What would such qualification entail, precisely? Exactly which letters, in which order, do I need after my last name before I can raise my eyebrows at stories of talking snakes, magic fruit, etc?
@Lynn- It's rated R for violent footage (at the end, religiously inspired violence), one set of boobs and a few bad words. I probably wouldn't take an 11 year old to it, but it's up to you - if you're okay with those things, by all means.
As for the film. Eh.
I mean, it's funny and you'll have a good time. But it won't change any minds, and they went WAY overboard with the editing during the interviews. Makes it hard to tell if any of the responses (or awkward silences) are actually in context. I certainly won't bother showing it to any relatives in an effort to give them a better understanding of the issue. They'll just see what I saw - a lot of edited shots that were probably cut in Maher's favor wit the intent of making those being interviewed look as silly as possible.
Clinteas @ 91 Did he pick that agnostic thing up after talking to Dawkins on his show? Or maybe its just being careful not to lose viewers by scaring them away in saying hes one of those evil atheist.Which would make him a coward.
It's unlikely he's worried about losing viewers, he is virulently anti-religious on his weekly program, referring to believers as brain dead idiots, or mentally ill every chance he gets. His rhetoric is beyond even Hitchens'.
Hey Ferre I see you got slammed upstream for being an 'anti-semetic conspiracy theorist.'
You probably read those anti-semetic conspiracy tabloids like Haaretz, huh?
They really let the Israeli gov't have it, you have to be careful with those Jews, they can be really anti-semetic, especially the Israelis.
I'm actualy kinda pissed off now. I just disocvered Maher about 5 days ago and was really enjoying him, and now you tell me he's against vaccines?
I also don't like that he apparently just made fun of scientology's beliefs because the wackiness of their beliefs just distracts from all the illegal shit they do.
It's amazingly STUPID thinking to go from criticizing Israel's Zionist policies to branding someone anti-semitic. That kind of moronic thinking is why Israel gets away with being an apartheid state where Palestinians are the 1950's "niggers" of the area. Second-rate, second-class separate and unequal citizens.
It's that kind of bullshit that has warped politics in the region for decades. It's that kind of bullshit that keeps us from talking to "terrorist organizations" even though the Likud is descended from the Irgun which was, in its early days, a terrorist organization that the US dealt with to form Israel. And that many of Israel's PMs were members of this terrorist organization.
It's this kind of bullshit thinking that has us non-recognizing that the Jews have their own terrorist organizations that frequently attack Palestinians but brands anyone who points out this bullshit behavior as "anti-semitic" as if that's true and the victim of your slander is morally defective.
When, in fact, we're pointing out Israel is as bad as South Africa in many of its practices and policies and is not, nor ever has been, some innocent victim in this region. So, just as pointing out the evils of South Africa didn't make me "anti-white" neither does pointing out the evils of Zionism and Israel's backwards and brutal policies toward their victims (you know, the Palestinians they've dispossessed and turned into subhumans) doesn't make me anti-semitic.
It just makes your charges stupid and foolish.
Mark @ 140
I disagree with Maher on plenty, but he is a great satirist.
The Racism bit he did last week is a classic, not all white people are shiftless welfare bums:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA8B3CaJDkE
Real Time is a great program, heads above his old Politically Correct. And they all manage to stay up on youtube .
Before? The man is a nut. And he's the worst kind of nut; a nut who thinks he's rational and as a result acts like a prick towards other nuts.
Here, here Moses. What's really idiotic about such attacks is that they demand more respect for the extremists in Israel's government than the Israel's give themselves; some of the fiercest critics of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians come from Israelis themselves. Are we to call liberal Rabbis in Tel Aviv anti-Semitic for decrying the indiscriminate killing of Palestinian innocents during Israeli assassination attempts? I think not.
If I were you, I would beware of Bill Maher! Before I would support him by going to his movie, I would find out if he has contributed to the antivax movement. If he has, avoid him like the plague. I believe alternative medicine is just as pernicious as creationism, and we should support Bill Maher only as much as he supports science-based medicine.
And by the way he used to date Ann Coulter.
It's not showing until the 10th in Champaign, Il. C-U is an island of rationality in a sea of superstition and corn, so we have to wait a week. The closest theater I could find for this week was in Indy. A group from Champaign-Urbana Freethinkers will be at the Art in downtown Champaign around 7pm on the 10th, for anyone in the area that's interested.
Karey,@ 146 :
//And by the way he used to date Ann Coulter.//
He's just a guy mate,and she has some rather electrifying sexual preferences,whether you like her political views or not...:-)
See here for an eye witness report (Ichthyic is not here,so im going to fill in):
http://ifuckedanncoulterintheasshard.blogspot.com/
Saw Religulous last night with our local club. It was hilarious at first, got a little slow in the middle, and then, just when I thought the whole movie was going to be silly 'gotcha's, hit it out of the park in the last 5 minutes.
Bill Maher was right on message with this movie. I hope it does well.
I have 2 theaters in the area showing it. Think I'll watch it this afternoon.
I watched it last night and thought it was brilliant. The "call to arms" at the end was very moving and I thought the rest was well done and thoughtful. Bill Maher is a very funny guy (usually) and even if he is into altie medicine nonsense, at least he doesn't advocate killing people over it. It started out much more lighthearted and then sort of got more serious toward the end. Best documentary I've seen in a while.
"is full of lies, half-truths, false assumptions, logical contradictions and fallacies, distortions, intolerance, prejudice, bigotry, arrogance, ignorance, and hypocrisy. Opening Oct. 3, the movie is a pathetic propaganda piece that will warp the hearts and minds of the gullible and the ignorant. It is also very poorly researched and argued."
Until I saw the date, I thought it was about Expelled...
PZ said:
Apparently not. I just took a quick gander at all the opposing comments on his post - people sure aren't that willing to jump in and defend him - and it's HIS blog! HE's not even defending him! Who is this guy? (just rhetorical, I don't really care)
I'm going to see the film today .. I need an entertaining diversion - it seems the rainy season has started here on the west coast ...
Saw the movie today.
Very good. My wife is an atheist, but doesn't really get into the blogs and debates like I do, so there was actually a bit of new information in it for her.
She seemed to enjoy the movie even more than I did.
I think we should keep in mind the fact that a lot of people don't know, or never really thought about what was covered here.
I think this movie could do a lot of good for the cause.
God bless Bill Maher.
Every president?! I'm sorry, but Lincoln and Jefferson were not Christians. Jefferson labeled himself as an Epicurean, do we count those as Christians now?
do we count those as Christians now?
It depends on how big the current big-top tent is.
A representative from Harun Yo-Yo's "science" organization was present at the Kansas Kangaroo Kourt, for example, invited by the Disinformation Institute.
After these morons "win" and submit the rest of us to their version of the inquisition, THEN they'll collapse the cicrus tent and start killing off each other.
PZ said:
Arbutus Grove replied:
Not only that, but the Nisbet ape, ever as cowardly as it is ignorant, is filtering out at least some of the criticism of his buncombe. Twice I posted the following, and neither time did Nisbet approve it:
"In the process, Maher makes fun of fundamentalist religion while seldom addressing the moderate dimensions that many Americans find so meaningful."
So if many Americans find something meaningful, it's wrong (or in Nisbet's foggy, narrow, and querulous view, counterproductive) to deride it? What, then, about people who believe "moderately" in ghosts, astrology, psychics, alien contributions to civilization, the viability of Sarah Palin's fitness for the vice presidency, and other palpably nonsensical things?
There are veritable armies of these waterheads in this fair land, but they operate much more quietly than religious folk do, because they do not enjoy the same tradition-based safety in numbers and thus the same protection from rightful criticism that booboisie-lurers like Nisbet aim to assure. Should their views be shielded from Maher-like derision as well? Calumny!
It is incumbent upon real people of science (and Nisbet qualifies to the same degree as a canary does) to tear apart bad ideas, not coddle them. Nisbet either rejects this fact or fails to understand it, and in either case is a fool. (The fact that he has not viewed the film is mere icing on the urinal cake of his opinion.)
The more Nisbet brays about atheists being the problem, the more he reveals himself to be a tiresome contributor to the real problem. Fine with me, as the transparency of his futility and of those like him will ultimately expose to greater and greater degrees that pro-religionists--be they proudly bawling yokels or stealth apologists like Nisbet--are pathetic laughingstocks. Once this becomes common knowledge, even the backwater ignoramuses in the thrall of hick pastors' endless turd-sermons will turn tentatively toward reason.
He has already done it, together with the host and The God Delusion. Only it was an English translation, and he didn't know that -- apparently -- only the original counts.
You're right about that. I apologize and withdraw my silly original claim.
Let me change it into something more constructive. Bill Maher is grossly ignorant and/or stubborn on a few issues, but otherwise he seems a reasonable guy. Ostracizing someone because he's prone to a bit of woo isn't exactly humane.
I hate how people bring up things about Mahler that are not relevant to THIS movie and judge the movie by them. Sure, he's cookoo about somethings, but he got this right and that is a good thing.
I went to see the film in Pitt, the theater wasn't full, and only half of the people clapped. But I thought it was a great movie. Mahler didn't really attack any of the religions like Dawkins would (he is still afraid of been called an atheist), but more just pointing out they are all nuts and we shouldn't base our societies and laws around them, which I think is a great message. The ending, while over-the-top, is very fitting as to why this movie had to be made.
And those people claiming Mahler gave the Jews a break... Maybe you all should watch it.
I find that odd, his views seem to reflect a position of weak atheism, I think he's bought into that religious myth that to be an atheist you have to have certainty that God doesn't exist.
I live in the Seattle area and just saw the movie this afternoon. It was fucking AWESOME! I like Bill Maher anyway, but even this movie went beyond my expectations. New information? Maybe not, at least not for me, but the way the movie was put together, like the editing "and such", was really effective. And Maher has got some balls asking the questions of Be-Lievers like he does. All in all a great movie, very enjoyable from start to finish. I will probably go again before it leaves town, and I will definitely buy the DVD when it comes around. I will look forward to see what Dawkins has to say about it.
I'm going to see it again tomorrow with friends and I'm buying it on dvd.
Sorry if some of you think it may not be perfect.
Maybe just not as good as your nationally released rational observations on religion huh?
"God" forbid someone with some real fame to draw off of tries to help our cause in such a big way without asking us exactly how he should handle it first.
What a jackass that Bill Maher is.
Maybe we should give our money to the church instead.
I wonder why people think atheists are arrogant and whiney?
Well, it seems I'll have to wait for the DVD release, unfortunately, as according to IMDB, there are only two theaters showing this film within a 50 mile radius of my house. And both are too far. As an interesting side note, my local theater also played Passion of the Christ long after a movie would normally have been shelved. It's great living in the boonies!
On the subject of Bill Maher, did anyone else catch that clip on his show last night of Sarah Palin being "anointed" by her pastor against witchcraft? It seems that we can add that to the list of crazy things she believes.
Posted by: Ferre
Post #48
"BTW, Bill Maher is the most arrogant and "full of himself" person I have ever met in my life,"
HEY! YOUR HAIR IS ON FIRE!
Ferre
Considering how you came off in the movie, I think it's perfectly reasonable for you to talk shit about Maher.
Considering your crazy 9-11 conspiracy rants, I think it's perfectly reasonable for us to talk shit about you.
Fair and balanced like fox news baby.
#127,
"Reminds me of Dawkins talking about the "notorious Jewish Lobby" running the US."
Context please?
#148,
"//And by the way he used to date Ann Coulter.//
He's just a guy mate,and she has some rather electrifying sexual preferences,whether you like her political views or not...:-)"
Grow the hell up. Coulter is the ultimate pig in lipstick (to use a quote that's been bandied about recently; this is about as creative as I get at 3AM.) I'm so sick of men (and women) giving people like her or Sarah Palin a pass simply because they happen to be "hot." And enough of that stupid blog: it was mildly amusing three years ago, but now it's just annoying. Why give Coulter any attention at all these days? She's nothing but another rabble-rouser; ignore her and she'll go away.
[off-topic]
@38:
DW, is Fargo, the town you refer to, related to the movie of the same name in anyway? (Other than sharing the name, oviously!)
AIG has their own review out now. They also promote "Expelled" at the bottom. Why'd I mention that?
To make note of their ironic complaint against Mahr's dishonesty when he did a previous project:
Titled to convey that "religion is ridiculous," the new film by cynical comedian and television personality Bill Maher is nothing short of an all-out attack on faith and a call for atheists to advance. This is no surprise to the AiG family, who experienced Maher's subterfuge and dishonesty last year in gaining access to the Creation Museum and AiG President Ken Ham for a (fictitious) documentary on the "cultural landscape of the United States." It was obvious this was the usual MO for this film crew, headed by producer Larry Charles of Borat fame, as other interview subjects or their publicists are shown stopping interviews as the true nature of the project was revealed.
You all remember the problems that the scientists interviews for "Expelled" had when it came to what they were told the movie was supposed to be about.
Nothing Sacred@167,
Dawkins' remarks about "the Jewish lobby" occur in The God Delusion. In the preface (p.4 in my copy, not sure whether the US edition would differ) he says:
"American polls suggest that atheists and agnostics far outnumber religious Jews, and even outnumber most other particular religious groups. Unlike Jews, however, who are notoriously one of the most effective political lobbies in the United States, and unlike evangelical Christians, who wield even greater political power, atheists and agnostics are not orgnaized and therefore exert almost zero influence."
In Ch.2, (p.44) he says:
"As I said in the Preface, American atheists far outnumber religious Jews, yet the Jewish lobby is notoriously one of the most formidably influential in Washington."
I would have said "Zionist lobby", which would be more accurate, as not all religious Jews are Zionists, and many of the most fervent Zionists are not Jews, let alone religious Jews. It would also be less liable to be interpreted as antisemitism. However, he does not use the phrase "notorious Jewish lobby", and does not say it "runs the US", unless he's said these things elsewhere.
He interviewed my senator, and he will forever be known for his statement: "Well, senators don't exactly have to take an I.Q. test", followed by a frown when he realized what he said.
@ Uncephalized #151:
In January he urged David Letterman to stop taking his post-bypass meds. Maher may not advocate directly murdering someone. However, you might be able to make the argument Maher may indirectly get someone killed if they follow his anti-Western med philosophy.
Matt A
I saw it last night, and thought it was hilarious. It gets too heavy-handed in the end, but the bulk of the movie is extremely funny.
Just saw it this afternoon in Edmonton, AB. I give it two thumbs up. One of the more memorable moments was the interview with a senior priest at the Vatican. The priest laughed out loud in agreement with Maher about some of the crazy things Catholics believe.
I saw it this afternoon in suburban Denver, and I thought it was great. Say what you want about Maher, and I have on various occasions, he's a brave man. I couldn't tell if he was scared at a couple of places (the mosque and the "Jesus Disney" place in Orlando), but I was scared for him.
I really liked the interview with the Vatican astronomer. Very interesting indeed - I'd love to see more if they shot more.
Oh, and the last 5-10 minutes of the movie...best damn thing I've ever heard out of Bill Maher's mouth. Ever.
Hi PZ,
This is Jeff Mark, author of Christian No More.
I really didn't expect to find Religulous showing here in conservative Cincinnati, but indeed it was (and even on the Kentucky side of the river next to Cincinnati!).
Overall, I quite enjoyed the movie, but I predicted the reason people would be upset, and I was right: I've been reading the reviews across the web, and a lot of Christians are upset that he singled out primarily the dumbest, dopiest people he could find. That is mostly true, although he did interview a couple of people with doctorates, and a priest. But what they don't understand is that to us atheists, whether the people are fundamentalist backwoods Christians who wrestle snakes, or mainstream Catholics in suburbia, it's all the same. They use the same Bible and offer different "interpretations" but ultimately they all believe in a magical invisible man in the sky who works miracles.
So I personally don't have a problem with Bill's rather amusing choices of subjects. I do, however, have doubts that any believers will be swayed. But then again, the closing of the movie features a several-minute speech by Maher calling us atheists and agnostics to action. And then it becomes clear the real purpose of the movie.
As such, I left the film feeling invigorated and excited. I've been posting responses to reviews across the web; I've been excitedly telling people about my book that takes down Christianity (shameless plug: Guy P Harrison called my book "an intellectual broadside" to Christianity!). And if that was Bill's intention, in my opinion it's working. It's bringing us non-believers together to forward our "non-message" of non-belief. And that's why I've been giving the film two thumbs up.
Jeff Mark
Author, Christian No More
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0981631304
jeff@EscapingChristianity.com
The movie was hilarious. He could have done some things a little differently and the movie could have been 12 hours long because there was so many more people he could have interviewed. In my opinion, he gave the religious a good "bitch slapping" of perspective. He made a point of showing how ubsurd religion looks from the outside. It was amazing.
We actually had it playing out here in IL. I am right on the Mississippi, there are no big cities near except Chicago, which is 3 hours away.
My favorite sentence from the Ted Baehr review:
"Of course, at the same time Maher accuses his opponents of these nasty things, he is doing the same things that he just accused them of doing."
Wow. Maybe I would take you more seriously if you would learn how to write with proper grammatical structure, rather than sound like a petulant child. ("nasty things" indeed...)
I do not live in a civilized part of the world (the South), but I did see Religulous twice this weekend. For both showings, the theater was packed, much laughter was emitted by a great many throughout, and the audience applauded afterward. Great success!
They also promote "Expelled" at the bottom. Why'd I mention that?
you just forgot to add the correct link that makes it actually worth mentioning, that's all. Fixed that for ya.
;)
I watched it on Sunday. By far the best movie of the year.... well behind Iron Man, and The Dark Knight.... but that is about it.
-=tbn=-