I have sinned. While I was in Philadelphia, I was supposed to attend the Drinking Skeptically event on Thursday evening, and I was honestly looking forward to it…but I went to dinner with Michael Weisberg, Janet Browne, Rasmus Winther, John Beatty, Jane Maienschein, and a few others, and when I finally looked up from the conversation, it was 10:30. Too late. I offer abject apologies to Salvatore Patrone and everyone who showed up.
To get even, the Science Pundit has tagged me with a meme. I am, of course, obligated now to actually address it, as long as I'm groveling. Here are the rules:
- Link to the person who tagged you.
- Post the rules on your blog.
- Write six random things about yourself.
- Tag six people at the end of your post and link to them.
- Let each person know they've been tagged and leave a comment on their blog.
- Let the tagger know when your entry is up.
Hang on, my entire life is random, a chaotic maelstrom with a thin thread of intent tangled in it. How am I supposed to pluck out just six fragments from it? Oh, well, here's something:
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The oldest object on my person is my social security card. I still have the very same rectangle of paper I was issued when I was 14 and got my first job. It must be made of gopherwood pulp to have held up so long.
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I used to be wickedly accurate with a slingshot in my misspent youth. I haven't used one since I was a teenager, though, so don't send me out to slay any giants.
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I have never smoked a cigarette or any other combustible tube, nor have I ever been tempted to do so in the slightest. My parents were smokers, so I was never curious, I didn't see anything faddishly rebellious about it, either, and the habit always simply seemed revolting.
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I have three small scars on my head and forehead, because when I was a toddler I had multiple independent falls and bloody collisions with coffeetables. My parents and grandparents apparently purged their houses of all such furniture until I reached an age where I was reliably able to stand up without falling down — when I was about 20, I think.
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The biggest fish I ever caught was a 29 pound Coho Salmon. This was on the same trip where my father caught a 45 pound King. Oh, but we are fallen from the Ancient Days.
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The quietest place I have ever been was an old growth forest in the North Cascades, when the wind was completely calm and the cedars went still and nothing anywhere was moving — it was eerie. Visit that same forest when there's even a hint of wind, of course, and the trees are all moaning and whispering to you without cease.
Now I have to tag 6? I took a semi-rational approach, and plucked out the names of the six most recent commenters to leave a url here: Scrambled Stoic,
Big Dumb Chimp,
Susannah,
Mike Haubrich,
Matt Heath, and
Tim Fuller, you're it.
- Log in to post comments
Memoirs of a Myers.
I'm not sure how one would comment on this particular post but I'll start: the quietest place I've ever been was last Thursday when a colleague and I went hiking in Rocky Mountain National Park. We were at the end of a trail at Dream Lake near Halett's Peak and there was plenty of sound dampening snow and there was no wind. Absolutely beautiful. Second place: Great Onyx Cave in Mammoth Cave National Park (also the darkest place I've ever been).
Your penance has been payed! ;-P
That salmon story is making me hungry, though.
Once again, it was great to meet you in person PZ. (I guess I can stop calling you P-Zed now.)
Just think of those brain cells you didn't lose to alcohol but retained by listening to Janet Browne. Janet will go elsewhere, and you'll always have the opportunity to pickle a few brain cells for compensation.
*waits*
Never mind all this silly frivolity! What about the really important news of the day:
Presumably they have also finally calculated that he was right.
I wonder if they took them out again a year later...
I did something similar some years ago. Some things have changed (for instance, I refer to myself as considering myself Christian, which has obviously changed), some for the better (I'm no longer a virgin) and some for the worse (I don't have a WDW annual pass anymore).
Whoops: something similar.
#4: I had a similar experience as a kid. My parents knew the day that I was taller than the bottom of the dinner table, because I ran under it, and instead of passing right under it, knocked myself flat. :P
... nah. Too easy. ;p
PZ admits it the day after I did: yet another nonsmoker of ineffable purity.
I'm still much more of an outlier, though.
I share the possession of my original Social Security card (mine was issued in 1953). I also have my original draft card from 1958.
I was also pretty good with a slingshot and considered the neighborhood expert on slingshot construction. However, it was my little brother who had multiple collisions with coffee tables.
Do you have any respiratory problems from growing up in a house full of secondhand smoke?
Yeah, I've got a coffee table scar as well, on the top of my right cheekbone.
Slingshots? Pfft. I'm from Queensland (Australia's equivalent of Texas); we skipped slingshots and went straight to guns. I used to shoot sparrows in my backyard with an air pistol. Cane toads, too - but the slugs just bounced off them.
That was a very funny post, Zeno. I couldn't help but think of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACF4XDznGEs
(Though you probably haven't watched much television, either.:))
I have my original social security card in my wallet. I think I got it as a child.
Slingshots? Pfft. I'm from Queensland (Australia's equivalent of Texas); we skipped slingshots and went straight to guns.
[idiot American]No boomerangs?[/idiot American]
I don't think I ever touched a slingshot, but I did use a bow & arrow at Bible camp, and I'm probably still a pretty good stone-skipper...
The oldest object on my person is a coin dated 1971.
I stopped carrying my social security card years ago. I did a quick search of my wallet and found my draft cards and a class picture of the Redhead from high school, from about the era, as the oldest items. I think I can now toss my draft cards.
Thanks for the YouTube link, SC. I never saw Taxi, but the Christopher Lloyd scene reminds me of things, too. I don't recall taking it into account consciously, but there were alcoholics in my extended family and I was always certain I didn't want to be like them. Maybe it had an impact.
Posted by: Riman Butterbur | November 23, 2008
Do you have any respiratory problems from growing up in a house full of secondhand smoke?
There is all of those studies about the effects of second hand smoke. But the good news is once you get away from such an environment, you will recover.
In my family, every adult smoked. Parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles; everyone did. When I was eighteen and moved into a non smoking environment, after a few weeks I regained my sense of smell. Breathing also became easier.
Sadly, six of my seven siblings are smokers. But they have learned, none smokes in their homes. They are serious in avoiding making their children breathing in second hand smoke. Plus they are trying to be considerate to non smokers like me.
One of my favorite memories, a bunch of us were bar hopping in celebration of one of my brother's twenty first birthday. I was rather smashed and when my brother stepped away, I took one of his cigarettes and lit up. My brother saw me, said "You don't smoke." and took it from me. It was nice that he did not want me to start up. Mind you, I am older then him.
Funny thing, I have smoked more pot then tobacco.
If we're doing childhood scar stories, I have a rather prominent one on my knee that I got from falling down on the playground in second grade. Rather pathetic story, that. I am also legendary in my family for appearing to fall down while standing entirely still in the middle of a room. Worse, what really happened was that I tried to take a step and tripped myself. Coordination has never been my strong point.
Great link SC! I had forgotten that Tom Hanks was the stoner friend in that TAXI clip.
Also, I too have my original social security card, though I'm a little younger than y'all so it's not quite as impressive.
People carry their SS cards with them on a daily basis?? Huh.
Why?
I had a coffee table attack me when I was young to! Okay, yeah, I was a klutzy 2-year-old... two stitches in the eyebrow.
To the best of my knowledge, he never said that the Beatles were deservedly more popular than Jesus. Whether or not his comment constituted "bragging" it said something about the preferences of the general public, not about the relative merits of the Beatles and Jesus. Yet the public, generally, went for the latter interpretation rather than accept a characterization that would have made many of them uncomfortable, had they acknowledged it."X is more popular than Y" does not imply that "X is more worthy than Y".
That makes three of us, then. =8-)
My sister who's 10 years younger than I always orders me around, too.
This feels like an arbitrary linking thread to me, thus I am going to link to my science blog
Wait, what does "sin" consist of to an arch-Darwinist? You use the language and yet deny the reality. At least be consist - as such mentalistic terms are out of bounds to the reductionist and you are limited to a hard behaviourism/elimitivism.
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My blog is blocked to those I do not know as a result of the vileness that has been so frequently posted in the comments.
'Sin' is a word, Pete, and it has many meanings. Christians do not own it.
Pete "well meaning fool" Rooke. Sin is a null concept. After all, go god, no religion, so sin. Then to a stream of bigs words that mean nothing. Reminds me of the radicals from my college days. YAWN. Go back to your pitiful site and stay there.
Our language is shaped by the reality of God's existence, that is my point.
Pete Rooke @ 29:
Yet more evidence that religion has a serious stunting effect on the senses of humour, irony and satire.
It has a serious thinning effect on the skin, too.
Oh, and by the way, isn't "apologetic and arbitrary" something of a tautology? In my experience, apologetics are always arbitrary!
I've also got my draft cards (4A, completed military service) and the replacement Social Security card I got when I left the Navy in 1971.
Pete "well meaning fool" Rooke, wrong again, as usual. God doesn't exist, so there is no word of god. Just the delusions of godbots like yourself.
PZ! Stop Pete Rooke from leaving his vile, blasphemous comments on this blog! I am sickened and enblasphemated! You should institute password-protection to prevent this sort of thing from happening again!
____________________________________________________________
Arch-Darwinist and Proud! Friend me on Facebook!
If God, as you say, does not exist then how did our ability to communicate to such an extraordinarily high level arise? Why is our language shaped - the terms, inferences.. - as if God does exist?
Hey, Matt has a point. I don't have to play until I get a comment on my blog.
I'm also curious about how to do this random thing. I mean, do I take every discrete bit of info about me and assign it a number then use a random variable generator to choose which six things I should expose about myself?
The meme is unclear, and if I have to do it that way it could take a few years.
Pete "well meaning fool" Rooke, evolution of course. No god involved, just pure chance. Don't like the answer? Deal with it elsewhere, but not here.
Wait, God exists? Surely you have evidence for such a profound statement on our reality, if so I would love to see it. But alas, I can't help but think that you are looking at the abstract concepts that exist in the greater social consciousness as proof of the divine. Taketh the word 'evil', use of said word is not proof that evil exists. It's a descriptor, nothing more. Making a big deal out of the usage of 'sin' is nothing more than showing a profound ignorance of the use of language in culture. Reading your posts Pete is damaging my soul. Note that I don't believe in a literal soul, that I'm simply using the word in order to convey meaning to others. When I say, your posts are like knives through my soul, most people (well most normal people) can recognise the poetic language and gain an empathetic meaning. Only a retard would take my use of the word soul as proof that the soul is a metaphysical entity intrinsically tied to my material form to be released upon my earthly demise.
No, our language is shaped by many things, but "God's existence" is not one of them. A major factor influencing our language is religion. This should not be surprising since religion is a major force in our society. But religion should not be confused with "God's existence."
I will have to leave it at that poignant question I posed (still unanswered: Why is our language shaped - the terms, inferences.. - as if God does exist?), until next time.
Pete Rooke
Pete "well meaning fool" Rooke. God doesn't exist. Period, End of Story.
So contemplating the existence of god is just mental masturbation. You are very good at it.
Oh, dear, have we been Rooked again?
Pete: the ability to form a declarative sentence is not the same thing as speaking the truth. You may think we're all God's meat puppets, but you have yet to make a convincing case for the strings.
Zeno, I believe that link provide constitutes spamming. Please remove it.
Until next time, Pete Rooke.
Short answer: Because pretty much everybody believed in God while language was being shaped. We've grown out of that now, but language evolves slowly.
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Reynard Thibideaux Foxcastle III
"Look at my sig! Look at my sig!"
PZ, lets pull a golden rule on poor Pete. If he won't let us post at his inane site, then he can't post here. Pete should understand, after all, it is in Matthew and Luke.
If this is true - and there's only one god - why is there not only one language? Tower of Babel aside, of course; I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that that's something even the fundamentalists choose to ignore.
One language would be evidence indeed for god; as it is, the vast number of human languages - much like the vast number of different religions and sects - is evidence against god's existence.
Well, a monotheistic god, anyway. It'd support either polytheism and/or polypantheism, and make things much more interesting.
No, they aren't shaped as if God exists. They are shaped around the belief in God. Belief in God != God exists. Surely even you can see that.
Oh and it was answered at #40, actually read what other people have to say - especially if you are going to call others closed-minded.
TSIB.
Show us it is, first! You keep just claiming it.
Chance and selection! You can talk to three times as many people as you can groom. That means three times more friends on whom you can rely. Three times more people that can help you raise your children. Three times more reproductive success. Three times more fitness.
Pete Rooke;
If god exists, how did your ability to babble non sequitur arise?
Yeah, Pete's a bad Christian. So much for turning the other cheek and loving your enemies. When a negative comment is made, he should invite another. If someone insults him, he should willingly give them another opportunity to throw an insult around...
...for a Christian, he's not very Christ-like.
Heh, my parents were smokers too and I grew up with the same amount of contempt for the habit...didn't quite work for my siblings though.
Why is our language shaped - the terms, inferences.. - as if God does exist?
Why is there wickedness and suffering in the world . . .. As if God does exist?
If God is shaping language, then God should easily be able to say so for himself.
Since God does not speak for himself, a language-shaping God does not exist.
And as for why the idea of God arose, well, that one is easy: God is an illusion. We speak of "sunrise" and "sunset", yet that's an illusion as well; the reality is that the sun is not moving across Earth's sky, but the Earth is simply turning.
God is the illusion that there is a someone invisible and intangible outside of us who is more powerful than we are. How do we know it's an illusion? Because this alleged "someone" never speaks; never gives any evidence of his existence.
"Why is our language shaped - the terms, inferences.. - as if God does exist?),"
Many cultures contain religion, however, their religiosity does not prove the validity of said religion. Agnostics and atheists occasionally reference God and Jesus not because they are secret Christians but because of a cultural trait. A atheist saying "God only knows" is not implying that he believes in God and that God only knows the answer to the question. Rather, it is a sign of throwing one's hands up and saying that they are clueless to the solution.
When PZ mentioned that he cannot be relied on to kill a slew of giants certainly you were not under the impression that he believed in them. He was only signaling that he is not longer proficient at using a slingshot using the example of giants as a humorous example to drive home the point.
Posted by: Pete Rooke | November 23, 2008
My blog is blocked to those I do not know as a result of the vileness that has been so frequently posted in the comments.
Yet the vileness of The Rookies's analogies have not lead to PZ blocking the likes of The Rookie.
You really should remove the link in your moniker if you are not going to allow us the ability comment on your site.
Hah. I'm camped out right now in an old growth forest in the rockies, and it certainly is eerie quiet with no wind or birds or other people. Also, a few days ago in a fit of boredom, I shot up the place with my old wrist rocket slingshot. No scars or salmon, though.
Posted by: Mike Haubrich, FCD @#38
Mike,
I have the same issue with whole random thing, which should explain to you my first arbitrary fact from this meme.
~Javier
Damn. I'm wrong again. Pete Rooke can't write a declarative sentence.
Pete Rooke #45
Do you mean the same link that clicking on your name in any of your posts provides?
PZ wrote: "I used to be wickedly accurate with a slingshot in my misspent youth. I haven't used one since I was a teenager, though, so don't send me out to slay any giants."
If your literary allusion coupling slingshots and slaying giants refers to David and Goliath, the pedant in me is constrained to point out that David killed Goliath with a sling, not a slingshot. Compare http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sling_(weapon) with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slingshot
Mr Rooke: Your stupidity is becoming increasingly annoying.
1. You have blocked access to your website.
2. Yet you still advertise it here.
3. And you complain of 'spamming' when someone else links to it.
The short bus does not stop here. I suggest you cower within the guarded walls of your pseudo-blog and get the hell out of here. I am putting your url in the killfile.
This is the 21st century. Any modern giants will be confronted by boys with devices built of stainless steel and surgical rubber tubing, loaded with ball bearings. Your pedantry is foiled by the Future.
PZ, 29 lbs for a coho salmon is HUGE! You have bragging rights for that.
Geez,
this was a really great thread,I was enjoying the posts of childhood coffee table accidents,and old stuff on peoples bodies....
And then the troll comes along and derails it.Cant people just the fuck ignore the guy once and for all?
*pissed off*
Clinteas, it seems to be a slow night here anyways. Even without the walking target that is The Rookie.
Ya know PZ i borrowed a car and drove 2 hours to attend drinking skeptically to meet you, you really missed out the bar was awesome and the people there were great. $1 lionshead and PBR too...
Clinteas, Pete Rooke had previously posted earlier this week, and nobody responding to to his rather WTF posts. Then he left for a couple of days, then reappeared today as a self appointed missionary to this blog. So we did try ignoring him. He failed to take the hint.
Walking? Colour me impressed. Just don't ask him to chew gum or he'll forget to breathe.
"Combustible tube" seems a little bit carefully worded!
This thread has led me to this hypothesis regarding PZ's criteria for putting someone in The Dungeon. Namely, whomever goes from entertaining or intriguing PZ Myers to annoying him gets bounced.
Now to observe and perform experiments all the while refraining from annoying Myers, God forbid.
Just when you think it cant get worse,next thing you know Alan Kellogg shows up......
You know Alan,if you werent such a dishonest lying scumbag,I would argue with you over what you wrote there.
But its just not worth the effort.
Hint:You are allowed to comment here too.
It's there on the page, you don't need to hypothesise it.
Allen, don't be a prick. It is very arrogant to assume someone else is arrogant for no reason. Sorry, that's the nature of the beast.
They really are barking stupid, aren't they? PZ has his rules posted, and yet, somehow, it's his fault that these gibbering potatoheads can't freakin' read it?
Hate to bring this back to the meme, and de-rail the derailment, but I have posted my response here.
That's an odd interpretation, Alan. Peter Rooke annoys me. Peter Rooke has not been banned (at least, not yet). Therefore, you assume the rule is that annoyance→banning?
Actually, what is likely to get someone banned is a consistent pattern of derailing threads. Rooke is a candidate, as is Teno Groppi. As you can also see, though, I hold my wrath back for quite some while.
*puts a penny on the thread rail*
*runs away*
I have my original social security card too, but it's even older than yours (relative to my age, though perhaps not in absolute terms) - where the signature line is, I printed my name. I was too young to know cursive and, in fact, my writing falls off the line rather a lot.
PZ Myers, #78
I have noted that annoyance plays a role in a decision to ban a commenter. I will admit that it's not the sole factor in the decision. Of course one is usually annoyed about something. A guest's behavior for one. Which leads to requests for correction, denunciations, correctives, etc. Mr. Rooke has engaged in behavior that is insulting, rude, down right antisocial. He has acted in a manner aimed at contradicting the stated goals of his declared faith.
I was raised a Protestant Christian, and while I no longer adhere to the doctrines of that iteration of the faith, I still follow many of the tenants. You could say that they have become part of my moral muscle memory. Indeed they have become so ingrained into our culture that they inform the behavior of most anyone raised in America, regardless of their formal religious affiliation or lack of same.
A man like Peter Rooke annoys me because what he does is contrary to what he says he wants to do. Part of good witnessing is listening and accepting what the other person has to say. Browbeating, threats, and insults are counterproductive, even alienating at times. You and I most certainly disagree regarding the existence of God, but I accept your reasons for rejecting His existence based on the currently available evidence. I will admit you may well be right. I don't know everything, and I am willing to wait until further information becomes available.
Mr. Rooke? He doesn't have that patience. Not that I can see. Further he has become hostile, accusative, and rude. Not the way to act when corresponding with people. Which leads us to a whole 'nother topic, and this comment is long enough as it is.
So there you have my response to your response to my original proposal. And thus Pharyngulites see how a hypothesis is disproved. It is not annoyance alone that leads to banning.
Benjamin Geiger at #8 and #9:
I read the link you posted, and I'm fascinated... you're actually very like me in some ways. (Don't take this as too much of an insult! :-))
I, too, once considered that I might have mild Asperger's, though have never been diagnosed with it; I do, however, definitely suffer from dyspraxia. Also, I've never been on a date or had a romantic relationship, and have suffered from consequent insecurity and self-esteem issues.
And, like yours, my political and religious views have also changed markedly over time, albeit sometimes in different directions to yours (politically I came from a moderate/centre-left background, then became a staunch conservative and am now more of a libertarian; in religion I was brought up as an active Christian but am now leaning increasingly towards agnosticism).
To your credit, you are, however, somewhat brighter than me(my IQ is only about 135-140 - good but not outstanding - according to Internet tests, though I've never taken a formal test).
...You could say that they have become part of my moral muscle memory.
That would make a great name for a rock band.
Ok, maybe not rock... Folk?
That's very modest of you, Walton.
cthellis, those are the Christian tenants, not the band.
@ Walton,
//To your credit, you are, however, somewhat brighter than me(my IQ is only about 135-140//
*headdesk*
@ Alan Kellogg,
//Mr. Rooke has engaged in behavior that is insulting, rude, down right antisocial. He has acted in a manner aimed at contradicting the stated goals of his declared faith.//
Not a true scotsman then Alan??
//And thus Pharyngulites see how a hypothesis is disproved//
The thing is that most people here would actually be aware of how a hypothesis is disproved...
*headdesk*
Now my head hurts....
@Pete Rooke: I feeling generous; I'll respond to your question on the assumption that it was meant purely honestly.
You assert that God must have been involved in the history of language and demand to know how it could have been otherwise.
This is a standard God-of-the-gaps argument and suffers all the weaknesses of such arguments. How our ancestors came to have something worthy of the name "language" is clearly not a solved problem but there is a huge multidisciplinary attack on this puzzle taking in evolutionary biologists, philosophers, neuroscientists, linguists and probably many others.
If you really want a (partial) answer to your question Daniel C. Dennett's "Darwin's Dangerous Idea" is pretty good at how culture, including language, can appear without appeals to the supernatural. Perhaps more directly relevant is Steven Pinker's "The Language Instinct" which I'm told is good, but I haven't read.
In any case, by saying a particular word ("sin") showed that goddid language you are going way beyond assert God into the puzzle of the origins of human language. and saying that the details of individual human languages are shaped by God. This isn't even filling a gap with God, it's on the level of YE creationism. The higgledy-piggledy, and somewhat Darwinian, process by which languages develop is recorded in massive detail. Families of languages can be traced back to common ancestors where there are written records of all the stages in between and changes in a given language can be mapped on the time scale of single human lives. There are extensive records of how complex creoles come into existence without any associated reports of divine revelation. Also, natural languages are full of exapted, kludgy, "qwerty" phenomena which no sensible designer would put there (much like organisms).
Finally while "sin" certainly does have a narrow meaning in religious settings of "acting against God" it certainly does have a fairly common, more general, meaning of "acting badly", especially in humorous or poetic usages.
Mine is up
To all of you who are carrying your social security card around with you. I would urge you to not do this because if someone steals your wallet/purse they are going to get everything they need to steal your identity. Your driver's license has your birth date and address, signature, etc. Add SSN to that and they are off to the races.
You really don't want that to happen.
Mine's up here
The quietest place I have ever been was a diner just off the highway south of Steven's Point, Wisconsin. My Dad and I pulled into the restaurant to get some lunch and break up a long, cross-country drive. We sat down at a table and started looking at the menu. After a few minutes, we realized that no one was making a sound in the entire restaurant, even though there were lots of people inside. It started getting eerie. "What is going on here? I whispered to my Dad. "Do you think it's always like this?" The quiet was oppressive. "I want to stand up and scream 'BULLSHIT!!!" whispered my Dad in response.
We quietly slurped our soup and got the heck out of that den of hushed voices.
The quietest place I've ever been was when I was a teenager and we snuck out at 3am, only to wander the desert (I grew up in the middle of nowhere, and there was nowhere to go at 3am). No moon, thus no stars (we had a flashlight). No wind.
It was quiet until I walked right by a jumping cactus. Then there were screams. Those things suck :(
Clinteas, "86
You're talking about things a person of a certain ethnicity supposedly does not do. I spoke of guidelines a person of a certain faith is supposed to follow. "No true Scotsman . . ." versus "a good Christian . . .".
Alan Kellogg, Google is your friend. Make use of it.
Wikipedia
Clinteas basically said you were redefining christianity in order to not include The Rookie. Hence, the not a true Scotsman. Hint, it is really about ethnicity.
I had the example of my parents, too, re smoking. I think I was even promised a driving license if I didnt' smoke before I turned eighteen. As if I needed the incentive!
Never got the license, though. I s'pose that was my act of rebellion. Haven't cared for motorised stuff since entering my teens - and I didn't fancy becoming the live-in designated driver (started drinking late, but do drink now - to excess even, at times).
I like my "quietest place" very much: one of the tallest mountains in the Scottish midlands is called Ben Vrackie. Since it's quite near the border of the lowlands and the North England lake country, as well as offering incredible views, it's quite windy at all times of year on the top. Well, there's an outcropping of rocks on top and, if the wind is blowing the right way, the noise of it will be completely muted. Extremely beautiful, seeing the entire valley and grass all around you being buffeted by the wind and not hearing even the slightest sound.
My post is complete:
Sinner's Lament
http://thetimchannel.com/?p=263
Enjoy.
98 comments on a meme? When you still haven't finished with Rule # 5?
Still waiting. But I did my post and passed it on, anyhow.
Here.