Nothing new here, just more of the same. I thought this time I'd insert my reactions into the stream of a fairly typical creationist letter that I received this morning. Really, people: you may think you're very clever and persuasive, but I hear all of this same stuff every single day, and you've never got a new argument.
Thanks for removing all doubt as to what will be taught at U-Morris.[Yes. We will be teaching science, not creationism.] My daughter was considering attending after she graduates next year. [Good for her! She sounds like a smart young woman already]That will not be the case anymore.[I am very sorry to hear that—she clearly needs a good education to correct the indoctrination of her father. But then, any good school she gets into will teach her the same things I would]
For you to take it upon yourself to have people e-mail U of Vermont, protesting the invitation to have Ben Stein speak at commencement, shows a narrow minded disdain for relevant[From Stein? Nixonian hack with no knowledge of science and a failed track record in economics?] opposing [Some opposing views can be wrong because they are stupid, you know] views
in not only science but probably everything else.Everyday. And I mean everyday. Your 'we come from goo'[Uh-oh. Your true colors as a devotee of the crazy people at Answers in Genesis are showing] stance is loosing[Maybe your daughter can be an English major] ground [Actually, no — evolution is doing very well, is beautifully supported by the evidence, and is getting stronger year by year among people who bother to evaluate the evidence] and you and your ilk[Nice word] are scared to death of continually being proven wrong[Not at all. Easy to refute: prove evolution wrong. Go ahead. I'll listen. Just don't regurgitate AiG nonsense at me, OK?]. So you go nuts at these opposing views of creation[Just being an "opposing view" does not make it valid. You really need to learn some critical thinking skills.] and what not. Funny thing is Stein is a nice guy[Stein: "Science leads to killing people"] and probably wouldn't even talk about that scary creation point of view anyway[Maybe instead he'd talk about his inane and demonstrably wrong views on the economy. Which is scarier?]. You have got to lighten up.[Dude, you're the one writing a long letter to a stranger protesting that you're going to dictate which schools your daughter can attend, because you don't want her exposed to different ideas about evolution.]
Please do not take this personally[Since yours is one of 11 weird harangues I found in my mailbox this morning, I won't. I just laugh.], since I have never met you or even heard of you[Nor I you. But I have heard this same cookie-cutter, boring creationist spiel a few thousand times.] until I saw Pharyngula. There are lots of people over the years that have been ramming[Really? Ramming? I suppose you could say your math teachers also rammed algebra down your throat.] this impossible Theory of Evolution[Sir, you do not understand the theory of evolution, and you are clearly planning to make sure your children don't, either. Not only is it possible, it's been demonstrated time and again] down our throats. But that does not mean its true.[Funny. I have never heard a scientist say evolution is true because we have indoctrinated people into it. That's more the kind of thing that is true of creationists]
We need to keep open minds and field and teach opposing views and let truth take it where it leads no matter how improbable a direction[I repeat, guy: your whole letter is built on an assertion that you will not allow your daughter to be exposed to ideas you dislike. Why are you creationists always so oblivious?].
Respectfully,[Somehow, I doubt it]
Steve Broten
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Hilarious.
Does it ever dawn on people when they say "I want you to let the truth lead you where it may" that they are themselves refusing to do the very thing which they are requesting?
Projection, more or less?
Nixonion.
*giggle*
Does Nixonion mean "to cancel an onion"?
I'm glad I don't get email like this - it'd drive me nuts.
I pity that poor daughter. And the idiot who thinks any state support college/university won't be teaching evolution. They just don't realize how funny and pathetic they sound.
That made me laugh, thanks PZ for that.
More from Steve Broten: http://www.globalwarmingisreal.com/blog/2006/11/14/an-island-of-garbage…
" Steve Broten @ 1:06 pm
First let me just say I need to see this - some sort of proof this indeed exists. It would lend so much to your credability. I'm from Minnesota so global warming has a sort of appeal to me. But this much garbage in the ocean - if true - should be dealt with somehow.
p.s. I take issue with your statement that we all came from the ocean - I need proof of that as well."
I wouldn't worry too much about what this guy's daughter learns; I'm guessing he's sending her to college to get her Mrs. degree so she can raise another generation of willfully ignorant individuals.
Operative word there is "relevant." Darwin answered Paley's relevant design claims, and the current IDiots are rather less worthy opponents than was Paley, who at least seemd to be trying to honestly comply with science.
The current crop of IDiots only knows enough science to avoid doing any with their "design" claims.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/6mb592
Cool. PZ says "Dude".
Excellent PZ. I wish you had the time to do this to all creotard emails that you get. Lets just hope that his daughter learns from whatever college she goes to. Nothing would be better than for his daughter to tell him he is 100% wrong on evolution.
I just hope the daughter gets into a good school far away from her father.
And how is a biologist supposed to "not take it personally" when some ignorant jerk reduces their entire field and hundreds of years of scientific endevour to a caricature like "we come from goo"?
It's like saying, "don't take it personally, but everything you've worked for in your professional career has been a big joke."
PZ. A lesser man would have refrained from publicizing this ignorant moron's name. Congratulations for doing so. It will doubtless now come to the notice of his unfortunate daughter, who might then decide to tell her ridiculous father to take a running jump, and make up her own mind which classes she wants to attend.
Mr. Steve Broten:
Does your daughter have any say in this? Or did you "open-mindedly" make this decision for her? If not, can't she write her own letter?
I picked my college and applied all by myself. Creationist parents lead their children around on a mental leash and see no irony in it!
This seems more like part of a larger attempt to have you removed. Now someone can go to the dean and say, "Look, this guy is the reason why students aren't attending our college." But this father really is pathetic, assuming he's real and didn't just make up this letter.
"Does your daughter have any say in this?"
Franky, I'm surprised he's "allowing" her to go to college at all. Perhaps that just so she can snag herself a husband. In that case, he best force her to go to Liberty University (or whatever Falwell's college is called) so she can catch herself a smug and ignorant man, like her daddy!
I don't know how you can put it with this same, self-righteous, condescending bullshit day after day after day. It's enough to motivate someone to fight this creationist hogwash, which you continue to do admirably. And then they blame you for it. And yes, their hypocrisy is mind-numbing.
@12
well, in all fairness, we tell this to theists all the time.
Hey, your religion - its a joke.
Good 'ol PZ! Someone buy this man a beer!
Yes, "we come from goo" is demeaning to humanity. We can only have human dignity if we were made from clay.
\creotard
Seriously, how does biblical creationism even appeal emotionally?
Incidentally, a "Steve Broten" appears as a board member in the newsletter for Central Minnesota Christian School.
Endor> I went to school in the South, and a number of my female classmates were quite forthright about only being in college to get their "M-R-S". Sad...
Let's not give up on his daughter. That would be disrespectful. Many have survived such oppressive parental attitudes and come to understand and value science and critical thinking.
Um yeah, you know like priests and ministers. There's a reason they need to keep their flock in check.
"I went to school in the South, and a number of my female classmates were quite forthright about only being in college to get their "M-R-S". Sad..."
Sad, yes, but the logical result of being told your entire life that your value as a person is dependent on getting the ring and pumping out the puppies. One more example of the wonderful psychological damage religion provides us.
It looks like this guy (if it's the same guy) has a trilobite in his bonnet about evolution.
PZ would make a great Tom Servo. "Tonight on a very special Pharyngula..."
This Mrs Degree. I have never heard of it. Is it something one gets one wife to undertake in order that she can perform {ahem} wifely duties* more effectively? Is this something we should be concerned about in the same vein a Chris Rock is concerned about fathers keeping their daughters from wearing clear heels?
Enquiring and slightly dubious minds want to know.
Louis
*Referred to in the UK as "conjugal unpleasantness". Something we do with the lights off and our socks on, of course.
I always love it when anti-science folk come out with the "every day your X theory is loosing ground" gambit or it's close cousin "more and more scientists are rejecting X", it's a dead give away that they're about to spout some pseudoscientific nonsense that has virtually no support in the scientific community:-)
he looked like VenomfangX (youtube creationist dil-rod) in high school...must be creationist inbreeding
http://www.classcreator.com/Warren-MN-1983/class_profile_empty.cfm?memb…
Honestly, when my RSS Feed shows me that lovely title "I get mail" I get all giddy like kid, excited to see what some crazy has to say to you. I love it, some of my favorite posts are the "I get mail" variety. Thanks for posting PZ!
"Is it something one gets one wife to undertake in order that she can perform {ahem} wifely duties* more effectively?"
Well, if by "more effectively" you mean only for procreation, not recreation, then yes.
:)
"Maybe your daughter can be an English major"
Eat shit, professor!
Seeing as how you barely get anything published anymore, maybe you should have paid more attention in English class, douche!
"Respectfully"?! How can one expect any sort of rational discourse from people who don't know what words mean in the first place?
It sends an exciting shiver down my spine to be even commenting on the same thread as Prof. Richard Dawkins (at #13), on the wonderl Prof. PZ Myers' blog! :D
Maybe he should take a look at this -
Evangelical preacher denounces young earth creationism and ID
http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2009/02/letter-from-hol.html
# 33 are you joking, or did you not get the joke? I can't tell.
I like the way you interlaced the smack down.
Yep, a little googling and it looks like the guy is from Minnesota, on the board of the Central Minnesota Christian School, and he does have a college-age daughter there. It would seem he is keeping a tight reign on her education.
The school has a list for each grade of what students will need, and the first thing on each list is a Bible - I guess their priorities are clear.
Today's hot lunch: Egg scrambler, hashbrowns, oranges, go-gurt
Hey, English Majorette, use your English skills! I think English is an excellent major — I have a son who just graduated with a BA in English from UW Madison — and my comment was a suggestion that maybe his daughter would be able to help Mr Broten with his own poor writing ability.
Re: the "MRS. Degree"...it's a joke, referring to women who go to college not in order to get an education, but to snag a husband (namely, someone named Chad, Biff, Todd, Matt or Zach) who is from a "good" family (read: tons of earning potential). You can find these vacuous, vapid Buffys, Muffys in a number of sororities and/or campus outreach groups. They can usually be found strolling about campus with a deathgrip--I mean, loving embrace around the arm of their presently hunky (check back in ten years) Abercrombie and Fitch-backward baseball cap clad boyfriend (in the South, he may or may not be gayer than a picnic basket but so far back in the closet, he's still finding Christmas presents).
I do love the email threads, PZ. They're magical.
I got it, Endor. Maybe you can be a Communications major.
#33
Aww. PMS?
I'm happy to not be you, PZ. Do you respond to this kind of thing regularly, or only when it's particularly funny to do so?
Wow, the Majorette appears to have a bee in her bonnet. Apparently, she sucks at reading comprehension. Ah, well.
Eat shit, professor!
Seeing as how you barely get anything published anymore, maybe you should have paid more attention in English class, douche!
How delightfully eloquent.
Let me guess, you're a poet, right?
"who is from a "good" family (read: tons of earning potential)."
Also reads as: WHITES ONLY!
***
"I got it"
before or after PZ explained it?
Your emails are a constant source of amusement PZ.
Did I fail blockquote again, or is this an error in the system?
For clarification, from "eat shit" to "douche" is all a quote.
"Aww. PMS?"
I'm sure we can do better than limp sexism. C'mon, use those brain cells!
**Extends hand to fellow English degree holder English Majorette for the Secret Alexander Pope handshake with a quizzical but expectant look**
Your 'we come from goo' stance is loosing [sic] ground
Trouble is, said ground is simply eroding back into the ocean from whence we came!
It's that hopeful idea that the chief/god/king is at last going to reward their loyalty. Evolution has to be losing ground, it just has to. Sob.
The future is always the reward for their loyalties. They know nothing that goes against evolution, certainly nothing that would stand up in science (or court, actually), but that other tribe is going to lose, just like the team in the other town, the other religion, the other tribe, is bound to lose soon enough.
They've gambled by staying with the soothing fables of the side that just makes things up (Pascal's wager in a nutshell), and they just have to win. Facts are not at all able to change those who are gamely hoping for a vindication that never does, yet always promises to, come.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/6mb592
#51
If it sounds sexist, I apologize to everybody here profusely, and not just the ladies. Certainly wasn't my intention.
aseem@44: Not cool. Assuming that English Majorette's female username and weird outburst are connected is dumb. Prepare to have SC kick your arse.
That said, seriously English Majorette, what are you yelling about?
Re: English Majorette(#43)
I'm not sure you did. There was an obvious joke there (making fun of the ignorant fellow's spelling), but there was a subtle joke in there too — perhaps the daughter can teach her father a little about English, too. It's clear that neither is a strong suit of his.
Maybe he's good at speaking in tongues (he does babble nonsense in his letter) and rolling around on the floor. We've all got to play to our strengths, I suppose.
There's one bright spot in all of this: It's almost certain that she's smarter than her father. He's a babbling idiot who gets his 'science' knowledge from a church, she's already planning on going to college.
Interesting how "don't take this personally" is always followed by an insult very clearly intended to be taken personally.
#55
I apologized at #54. I am sorry for the comment and would delete it if there was a 'delete' option. I am truly embarrassed.
"Your 'we come from goo' stance"
Yeah, we didn't come from goo. Instead, half of us came from dirt, and the other half of us came from the rib of a guy who came from dirt. This must have happened in a place with dry dirt, because wet dirt would be kinda gooey.
Majorette is just unhappy that with the economic downturn, the insurance companies are no longer hiring.
What?! No "Kind Regards"?
@Ward #56:
Will her father allow her to be more open-mindedly educated than he is?
He may be a "babbling idiot", but he's also a school board member!
He currently has his daughter in a private Christian school where he probably has some say in the curriculum as one of its board members, and is obviously very interested in maintaining his tight control of her education. It doesn't appear that she will have much freedom in choosing her college, either...
Best wishes to her, though!
@ SteveM (#57)
Exactly right. Much like how people of lesser intelligence around here love to say "no offense, but..." followed by whatever rude, horrible thing they can think up. Like "No offense, but your face makes me throw up".
Endor @ 32 and Roger @ 41
Many thanks for clarifying that. I suspected as much but couldn't resist the joke.
Louis
I wish you would post their addresses occasionally. We could use some new playmates.
To EVERYBODY reading this thread
I plead guilty for my irresponsibly posted comment @ #44. The more I think about it, the more embarrassed I am. I am truly and extremely sorry.
I always knew the P in PZ meant PWNAGE. :)
Nice work, sir. Cutting, funny and rather insightful. I just hope some of that sunk in with that guy.
Yes, I realise "hope" can just be another 4-lettered word...
Re: Francine DuBois(#62)
Perhaps, but she's an adult (or soon to be) and will probably be away from home. The fact that her father is so adamantly against her learning something (and she'd want to know why he's against Univ. Moriss), coupled with the proclivity toward youthful rebelliousness, and lack of oversight and I'm optimistic about her chances.
Ben Stein, a nice guy?
Maybe someone should inform Mr. Broten that Mr. Stein feels that misrepresenting the Holocaust is none of the Anti-Defamation League's "fucking business".
A major that clearly would have been ill-suited for yourself, as we are not sure exactly the content of your objection. We get that you're not fond of PZ, but:
1) Is it an objection to his publishing an email?
2) Are you actually upset about his grammatical skills, and calling him a hypocrite (admittedly, taken at face value this would be the actual content of the complaint)?
3) Are you really angry at him for dismissing creationism?
4) Are you upset he's trying to persuade a theist into pursuing an English degree, thereby lessening the credibility of English majors (personally, I'd go for this one)?
Or are you purposefully keeping it ambiguous, as so much poetry, allowing us to draw our own conclusions?
I cannot imagine why this fellow thinks that his daughter will be safe from evolution in other universities. In my first year biology class we spent nearly an entire lecture on intellegent design, why it was rediculous and why evolution really is about as close to proven as any theory can ever be. The prof. even recomended that students read *gasp* The Selfish Gene (and we all know where that can lead...)! Other professors may not be as public as PZ, but their views on intellegent design are all pretty much the same and they don't mind letting you know.
Yep, a little googling and it looks like the guy is from Minnesota, on the board of the Central Minnesota Christian School... Today's hot lunch: Egg scrambler, hashbrowns, oranges, go-gurt
From goo to gou? All this from a little googling? How miraculous creationism is!
Gotta go (goo?) now - gotta do my goga, next to the Gaugin/Van Gogh (Googh?) paintings, then read a little Gogol (Yogol)? I hope I'm not loosing my mind.
"I suspected as much but couldn't resist the joke."
can't say I blame you, since I couldn't resist it either.
++
"Or are you purposefully keeping it ambiguous, as so much poetry, allowing us to draw our own conclusions?"
maybe its the taste of her own foot in her mouth that's preventing a response?
I don't believe this clown had any intention of sending his daughter to Morris or anywhere similar.
No reputable university or college teaches creationism mythology instead of biology. A fact of which he is probably dimly aware of.
Even the religious affiliated ones teach evolution, BYU, Notre Dame, SMU, Baylor, most Lutheran, some Nazarene and so on.
His choice for her would be between one flea bag bible college or another. Forget Harvard, Yale, University of Anystate, Anystate U. etc. Fundies have many charming habits, one is setting up their kids to fail in life.
Truly, what I need to know is if the email actually came in Comic Sans....
@ Aseem: I, for one, accept your apology.
Now where's one from English Majorette for her ill-informed and vicious attack on the good professor?
Remember Steve that thou were't goo
And unto goo thou shalt return.
When from our bench we throw at thee
Our evil nano technology.
"I, for one, accept your apology."
Me, for two. We're all guilty of stuff like that. I appreciate it when someone can admit it and apologize (because I'm very used to people denying it and pretending it was something different).
English Majorette must be loosing her mind to not get that joke. :)
The more I read letters like these, the more I feel sorry for the people who write them. They are so confused! Some preacher in some church has fired them up and fed them a literal banquet of creationist talking points.
So, they go home and sit down and write out letters like this, to fling across cyberspace at someone who represents all that they fear: someone who actually takes the time to think and study about things, and draws conclusions based on evidence.
All of the heartfelt passion in the world won't change the fact that science is based on evidence and reproducible results. Whereas religious "truths" are based on feeling and emotion. The two worlds simply don't mix, and those who seek to inject religion into science are simply wasting their time.
The sad truth for the author of this letter is that in all likelihood his daughter has already been "exposed" to the science of evolution and will most likely embrace evolution over creationism once she gets out into the real world and has to take real science classes.
We must remember how DESPERATE these people are. They correctly see the rise of science as the death knell for literalist religion. Their children are leaving their churches and their worldview in droves. Every time they open a book or watch TV they are reminded that fewer and fewer people subscribe to their views.
How. Sad. For. Them.
A lot of emotional investment from a paternal control freak.
I think English Majorette had to go to chappell.
If this man's daughter has been educated at a Xian school, she may not even QUALIFY to enter U Morris. They have standards. Ignorance may be bliss, but it's a strike against on a college application (I mean real colleges, not Liberty).
I love it when people use the idle threat of "I WAS going to spend my money at place X, but not now". Bullshit. I seriously doubt his daughter was considering PZ's institution.
"Everyday. And I mean everyday. Your 'we come from goo' stance is loosing ground."
Bad punctuation - that's a standby for these folks, but notice how he reiterates "everyday" - he must really mean it.
And so is stating things in opposite terms. Water has no surface tension. Gravity pushes things away. Food goes in your asshole. I recall the Catholic church bloviating about how folks are flocking to the one true religion, when in reality in the US, they have been losing adherents steadily for decades as have most mainline religions. There has been a shift for them to Latino parishioners who don't have the wealth to maintain its infrastructure. I suppose Broten's statement rings true if he only listens to KTIS and his Sunday ringmaster.
P.Z. Please tell me you sent that as a reply to his email. I would love to imagine his head exploding when he reads it. Who knows, it could become a series of posts if he responds. I propose the title "Conversations with the simple".
We should be on the lookout for letters that this guy has written to other universities that he was "going to send" his daugher to. Is his daughter an electron? ;-)
Comedy. Fucking. Gold.
Please continue to insert comments directly into their diatribes. It helps me get to the end without bleeding through my eyes and ass.
Hmmm... you know, I actually like it when your comments are inserted into the letter- it doesn't break up the comic sans well.
Classic!
Except of course: Trouble is, said ground is simply being weathered and then eroding back into the ocean from whence we came!
And of course said ground is also being simultaneously created in other places.
Okay, geek hat off.
This guy?
Posted by: Steve8282 | February 4, 2009 1:44 PM
"I think English Majorette had to go to chappell."
Yes, and prey befor the alter.
"There are lots of people over the years that have been ramming...this impossible Theory of Evolution..But that does not mean its true."
Is it too much to ask, Mr. Broten, to use a goddamned apostrophe? Be a moron about science if you choose, but when you're trying to say "it is", just spell it out, will you? That way I don't have to have a fucking heart attack trying to decipher what you are trying to say.
P.S. Thanks PZ, your part was hilarious.
"you and your ilk"
Hooray! I've been mentioned in PZ's hate-mail! It gives me a warm fuzzy.
It would be immensely satisfying to know that this joker saw PZ's response. As it is, it's merely entertaining.
Mr. Broten's picture is likely here.
Given the nature of the e-mail addresses of the support staff, it seems at least possible that he might get e-mail at [first name][last name initial]@willmarnet.com. He might be interested in knowing that his 15 minutes of fame are about to expire.
Gee PZ, you gets all the bestest and craziest trollies. How do you manage? The cost in Troll-Chow must be a heavy burden in this economy right now?
Anyhoo, after see that video you posted and reading this letter, how the hell do you put up with this industrial grade stupid? Seriously, do have HazMat protocols for handling your email and snail mail? Be very careful PZ, Teh Stupid could rub off if you continue to expose yourself to these obvious toxic levels.
"Yes, and prey befor the alter."
*lol* Uh-oh. Now she'll say you should be a *cue scary music* communications major!
What do you want to bet this Broten character doesn't even have a daughter? Lying about you were considering using the other side's services but now have changed your mind because the other side is so mean is such a classic cheep shot from the losing side of an argument it should have it's own internet law like Godwin's.
Poor girl. She's likely already saddlebacking.
I hope uni can help her free herself of that noxious influence.
Yeah, P.Z., how dare you "take it upon yourself" to get people to email U of Vermont. It would have been so much better to let the president get blindsided by the old fool Stein, and have BS laughed or booed off the stage. I'm just so "we come from goo and all" that I want to eat worms.
check out the first comment
If this makes you feel any better: Medical Research Council's Human Reproductive Sciences Unit in Edinburgh, Scotland, recently coined the term "irritable male syndrome" (IMS) to mirror the infamous PMS in women
@57: It's long been a rule of thumb of mine that any statement along the lines of "I'm not racist/sexist/whatever, BUT..." is nearly always contradicted by the clause that follows it.
I think of it as: if a person asserts (p), you may safely assume (~p).
@57: It's long been a rule of thumb of mine that any statement along the lines of "I'm not racist/sexist/whatever, BUT..." is nearly always contradicted by the clause that follows it.
I think of it as: if a person asserts (~p), you may safely assume (p).
The converse may also hold, but the only case I can think of offhand is when companies say "We take this matter seriously"--always a dead giveaway that they do not, in fact, give a shit, and are making the right noises until you go away.
Bwahahahahahaha!
I wonder if it's this Steve Broten....
>>
Central Minnesota Christian School
CMCS Mission Statement
It is the mission of Central Minnesota
Christian School to provide a Christ-centered
quality education to equip students
for a life of service.
Board Members:
Steve Broten <========
<<
I feel sorry for his daughter.
Interesting article in today's Nature:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v457/n7230/abs/nature07673.html
Sorry creationists, the evidence is NOT moving in your direction ("stance is loosing").
An aside: We had in a key in our lab that someone had labeled "Loose this and die!" It was always good for a laugh. I always imagined it was the key to some bottomless pit full of evil creatures. ; )
BobL @ 98
A quick search on [a popular social networking site] reveals a relatively small number of people with the last name of 'Broten' and a couple of them appear to be high-school aged females in Minnesota. I think his claim to having a daughter is the only factually correct detail in his letter.
Please do not take this as a suggestion that anyone should contact his daughter in any way, shape or form. It was just one piece of information I found in fulfilling my curiosity about Mr. Broten.
>>We need to keep open minds and field and teach opposing views...
You know what happens when your mind is too open? Your brains fall out!
Sounds more like: "to provide a Christ-centered
quality education to equip students
for a life in the drive-thru service industry", to me.
Dang, hit "return" too soon. Everyone ignore #103. *grumble*
Randy@93: You're PZ's ilk? I didn't know that large ungulates could even type, let alone that they could be kept as pets within city limits.
for a life of Service
Well I always prefer my waitstaff to be somewhat more literate/numerate, but these days I'll accept obsequious -- that's what he meant, right?
SPOINGGG!!!
I am truly sorry you had to see that. I found my father's email to professor Myers in the sent box.
He is off his meds again. He's in the other room looking for hidden biblical inspiration for my future school. He's a numerologist. You do not want to know how hard it was to convince him not to sacrifice our schnauzer and read her entrails. He wears a clice and thinks I don't know about it. The blood he has lost would have done his brain some good.
It is so hard living with him. We can't eat shellfish because he says they're an abomination. I can't have a boyfriend because he says my heart should only belong to Jesus. He talks about the apocalypse all the time now. I like to watch the discovery channel but he blocked it on the tv because there was a program on about evolution. The only channel that isn't blocked now is Fox. If I have to watch one more minute Fox news I am going to puke. The bible readings every night are even worse. He even comes up to my room to stare at me until I say my prayers. What a creep.
It is a good thing he spends most of his time at the church otherwise I wouldn't have any friends. Dad told my best friend in elementary school that she would burn in hell for wearing pants. We never spoke again. I wish he would shut up about what he thinks is a woman's place. To him the women's rights movement never happened. He even told me I should vote the same way my husband does. I am sure he had a husband picked out for me, an idiot son of one of his creepy church friends. I told him I might become a nun after college and he told everyone in our church. I guess he believed it because he named me Chastity.
At least I know he won't be reading this. He says everyone here is a sinner and will burn with Satan in hell.
I have to go. He looks frustrated with his numerology and is looking at the dog again. I am taking her with me when I leave this hell hole for good. Dad is such a loser.
Isn't there some law that whenever you chide someone for a spelling or grammar mistake, you will make one yourself? I just have to note that immediately before PZ made the "English major" crack, he had written "Your true colors...is showing."
Now what mistake have I just made?
some bottomless pit full of evil creatures
Would that be like the basement in a fundy church?
Impossible.
Implausible.
Inconsequential.
How can they be all three things at any one time?
"It's long been a rule of thumb of mine that any statement along the lines of "I'm not racist/sexist/whatever, BUT..." is nearly always contradicted by the clause that follows it."
You forgot a couple:
"I'm an atheist, but..."
"I used to be an atheist, and..."
If #114 is really Ms. Broten (and not some nicely scripted write-up by someone else impersonating her), there is hope for her yet. She appears to be a clear thinking young woman, and I wish her all the best in forging her way through the world with rationality and sanity.
It must have been a bit of a risk for her to be commenting here while Senior Broten was in the house!
The Bierce/Hartman/McKean/Skitt Law of Prescriptive Retaliation.
All, all have been bitten by it, for not one of us is righteous; not one of us can has impeccable grammar.
Maybe a book deal is in the future for PZ' letters to Creationists. I think it would have to humor or even horror (or both?). Here's a possible title or two,
Suck it for Jesus
or
You can't fix stupid
and so on..
Bah. Sacrifice the dog?
I will bet a cookie that "TheYoungerBroten" is a member of the Landover Baptists. Or possibly writes for the Onion.
I confess to having been a fan of Win Ben Stein's Money. I was astonished that he not only doesn't know science, he doesn't know scripture.
He was asked to who's birth does the immaculate conception refer?
Ben said Jesus; Jimmy said wrong.
Ben put on an "I just got cheated" face.
The answer, of course, was the "virgin" Mary. (According to my great-grandfather, she was a slut.)
Of course, I thought it was Franco Harris.
LOL!
Thanks to whomever wrote TheYoungerBroten's comment. That was hysterical.
PS to "TheYoungerBroten": The word you used in the second paragraph is spelled "cilice"
CatBallou @ #115
That would be Muphry's law.
"(a) if you write anything criticizing editing or proofreading, there will be a fault of some kind in what you have written;
(b) if an author thanks you in a book for your editing or proofreading, there will be mistakes in the book;
(c) the stronger the sentiment expressed in (a) and (b), the greater the fault;
(d) any book devoted to editing or style will be internally inconsistent."
If these creationists are all so fucking 'open-minded', then how come they shit fucking bricks at the mere suggestion that their God may not exist?
Once again I proffer the argument that these cud-chewing simpletons would better serve humanity as food.
Time to switch majors, dumbass.
@30, yikes
"Ever notice how people who believe in creationism look really unevolved? 'I believe God created me in one day.' Yup, it looks like He rushed it!"
-Bill Hicks
...this impossible Theory of Evolution...
The impossible Theory Of Evolution was dropped in favor of the possible Theory Of Evolution.
PZ, I read that twice and I still missed the part where s/he offered you an honorary pastorship and a speaking engagement at his/her church...after all we know they don't have narrow-minded disdain for relevant opposing views don't we? Did you snip that bit out? When are you going? Teach the controversy and all...
Oh...you mean they're a bunch of hypocritical windbags? Who'dathunkit?
I call Poe on #114 (The Younger Broten.) Christian fundamentalists can be pretty damn weird, but I don't think any of them are considering haruspicy (sp?) with the family dog.
One of the favorite claims of creationists and IDers is that evolution is losing ground/losing adherents/in danger of being overturned any minute now. And if they wish really hard, Tinkerbelle will live.
AlanWCan @ 130
Alan's got a marvelous point. PZ should offer that he would apologize for his role in the UVM affair if he is invited to speak at the commencement of Broten's Central Minnesota Christian School. See how they like that bit of open-mindedness.
The "I Get Mail" posts alone are worth the price of admission to this site.
"Loosing"... aw, geez.
If he'd only gone on a bit longer, he would surely have gotten to "alot" and "definately."
LOVE the in-line repartee. It adds to the humor. You're on a roll, PZ.
You have to wonder at all the people who are incensed, incensed I tell you, at the thought that "we came from goo." They do know how babies are made, right? You don't have to go back billions of years to watch an actual human being develop out of sticky mixture of various fluids and individual cells that can't help but qualify as "goo".
Yes, you came from goo. No, that doesn't diminish your humanity.
Roger #41"
Brilliantly funny, and oh-so-true! I will shamelessly steal this for later use . . .
It seems like some parents, those like Mr. Broten, simply can't stand the idea of their children being more intelligent and in tune to reality than they are. I suppose it's up to his daughter, though, whether or not she'll let him drag her around by the collar.
I call Poe on #114 (The Younger Broten.)
not "Poe"; it was too obvious satire.
I would like to nominate "Daughter Of Broten" for a Molly!
Outstanding work!
Mr. Broten's goo comment reminded me of: We come from filth, we're going to filth! We're filth!
Egads, what a sour Broten...
Speaking of email... I'm getting a persistent high pitched ringing sound when I'm logged in to gmail. But not if I switch to basic html mode. Anybody else noticed that? Hrrmmmm.....
Re: pdferguson (#143)
I see what you did there.
I feel really sorry for this idiot's daughter. When I was a young man lbc (long before children)I was impressed by a comment of Bertie Russell (he of teapot fame), who wrote something like this, "If you want your children to grow up with the same views as you, you should choose a different kind of education from one that would lead them to form their own views." Always the idealist, I followed his suggestion, and my oldest daughter, at her request, went to an excellent private Catholic academy (Joe Biden's old school). Fortunately, she was introduced to the writing of Sartre and Camus, and is now at least as atheistic as I.
Yeah! Lighten up PZ!!
That was hilarious! Thanks for the humor break.
Anyone who tells a college age daughter where they can and can't go to college is such an authoritarian idiot. I wonder if he would tell a son the same thing?
DaveL @ 137-
That's a great point; one I've never heard anyone highlight before. I guess they think God turns every egg into a chicken.
Yeah, I've known a few of the vapid animated A&F mannequins. Most of 'em are so far in the closet they have one foot in Narnia.
Evolutionary theory is NOT loosing, it's very, very tight.
And I am not an ilk!
Shouldn't that be Muphrys' Law?
Karaoke anyone?
Christians especially talk about how the highest virtue is humility (see the Beatitudes in Matthew). When was the last time a Christian demonstrated humility? Sure they like to use the word a lot but they rarely demonstrate it in actions. "Faith without works" is dead (See the book of James); likewise, belief without humility is lip service.
Randy @ 93,
Thanks! It's rare I actually do LOL, but you made me do it.
Speaking of email... I'm getting a persistent high pitched ringing sound when I'm logged in to gmail. But not if I switch to basic html mode. Anybody else noticed that? Hrrmmmm.....
Only happens in Opera with plugins enabled. Id' dump Opera but there aren't any other browsers out there that are worth a crap. Oh well. Alright carry on, people...
Only happens in Opera with plugins enabled. Id' dump Opera but there aren't any other browsers out there that are worth a crap. Oh well. Alright carry on, people...
By the way, sometimes Opera uses close to 200 stinkin megabytes of stinkin memory. But like I said, all the other browsers are pure crapola. Okay, enough griping for the day. Carry on....
Windows Vista is the best operating system in the world, by the way. Okay, that's enough for today.
@386sx:
I assume you tried and did't like Chrome? I had little bothersome problems with Opera and gave up on it. I had memory hog problems with Firefox, but I tend to collect tabs. ;^) Chrome is a touch buggy yet, but I like it best for now. Not quite ready to trust it for secure transactions.
Best editor? Emacs, of course. What else is there? Okay that's enough.
I assume you tried and did't like Chrome? I had little bothersome problems with Opera and gave up on it. I had memory hog problems with Firefox, but I tend to collect tabs. ;^) Chrome is a touch buggy yet, but I like it best for now. Not quite ready to trust it for secure transactions.
I actually love Chrome. But it doesn't have enough fancy addons and extras and things like that.
@386sx:
What, no love for vi? (kidding). I still find it easier to use vi for bulk substitutions, but I am an old guy.
What, no love for vi? (kidding). I still find it easier to use vi for bulk substitutions, but I am an old guy.
I made a button in Emacs where I click it and gvim opens up with the same file loaded in it. :P
Re: afterthought (#160)
The vi/Emacs holy war, something I didn't imagine I'd ever see spill over onto Pharyngula.
My response to Creo/IDtards is usually two words:
Man breasts
Littlejohn #123:
I saw that episode of Win Ben Stein's Money a couple of times back when it aired and I still vividly remember Ben Stein throwing a fucking fit on the immaculate conception question. (It cost him the game.)
He whined and whined about how the immaculate conception referred to Jesus' conception, and there's no way it was Mary.
(I've run into more than one Catholic who shares that misconception, by the way.)
Anyway, I like to think back to Ben's whining that day when I see his smug face or read any of the stupid crap he says.
Yes, Littlejohn @ 23, you're right, the immaculate conception refers to the conception of Mary who had to be born without original sin in order to birth Jesus who, of course, couldn't be tainted with the sin of Adam.
And, I kid you not, an ejaculation is a brief prayer.
Thats so 80's......
At least this fundie guy is just deluded,and not homicidal.A reasonably coherent letter for a creationist,actually.
Endor and others: Biblical literalists do send their daughters to college. My cousin K**** & I were both grandkids of a (USA) Southern Baptist preacher. I moved West and she went to Bob Jones University, where she studied music (Rock of Ages, cleft for me...). She came out a certified church pianist - a good one, I guess - and was considered a good catch. So education, such as it is, is perfectly acceptable. Other acceptable feminine majors would include Primary School education and nursing.
My daughter plays jazz piano, and is majoring in anthropology and Native American studies :)
"After the show, these three rednecks come up to me and say 'Hey Mister Comedian. We're Christians and we don't like what you said.' I said 'Well then, forgive me.'"
-Bill Hicks
"Yes, "we come from goo" is demeaning to humanity. We can only have human dignity if we were made from clay."
Our human dignity is completely predicated on being created by a bloodthirsty deity to grovel for his favor.
the Central Minnesota Christian School is frightening.
You have the best trolls, PZH, and they send you the greatest email. I'm envious beyond belief. True, you must occasionally find the emails tiresome, given that no creotard has had a novel thought in millennia, but as a faithful reader I always look forward to 'em. The style of interspersing your pithy observations amidst the idiocy works great for me because, like Teh Merkin, I worry a bit about bleeding excessively from my eyes and asshole.
"Vi versus Emacs? A plague on both your houses!"
"Vi in particular needs to be stamped out, since its grotesque teletype-era command interface is almost perfectly designed to trick unsuspecting users into mangling MagnumOpus.txt when they accidentally open it in the wrong editor. The proof of this, and the single Vi command I urge everybody to learn, is the exit sequence needed to get out safely - :q! (that's COLON-QUEUE-BANG)."
"Now, if Vi is the hagfish of the text-editing world, Emacs is the whale - supposedly a friendly and intelligent creature, but in reality just a smug blubbery shipping hazard."
"The trouble in both cases seems to be that the programmers working on these text editors are working in text editors, and inevitably start by building into them all the features essential for programming, followed by enough feeping creatures that they never need to venture outside their 'Integrated Development Environment'. Features that would be useful for mundane tasks such as editing ordinary English prose are only fitted in as an afterthought [...] [if at all]. Then of course when you discover the 'help' menu, it asks for the internal name of the function you're inquiring about..."
Emacs is in OS in search of a good text editor.
Oh shit. The <pre> tag automatically inserts a line break. I guess next time I'll use <span> and specify the font explicitly... <facepalm>
Maybe English majorette = li'l miss broten?
"Teach the young people how to think, not what to think" - Sidney Sugarman
Email? For some reason I imagined you transcribed this from the original crayon.
Is it really surprising that a Jew would not be knowledgeable about a piece of Catholic theology?
Re: Tis Himself(#178)
Well, if what I'm reading about the episode is true, he certainly made a big deal about it. Apparently he thought he should have known that.
Only happens in Opera with plugins enabled. Id' dump Opera but there aren't any other browsers out there that are worth a crap. Oh well. Alright carry on, people...
Relax people it was Opera 10 beta version. Back to stable version, and everything is fine. Relax eveybody.
It amazes me that there are still people living in the bronze age.
But...but...but...global warming is unpossible, there was a snowstorm in Vegas last December! AAAAALLLLLL GOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRE!
Steve Broten eats babies.
Oh c'mon, vi is not that old!
lol, what a bonehead
I apologize, but I couldn't help going grammar nazi on the letter...
"So you go nuts at these opposing views of creation and what not." WHATNOT
"...But that does not mean its true." IT'S
"Your 'we come from goo' stance is loosing." LOSING
Steve Broten is a board member for a school? Jesus-tap-dancing-Christ, I'd hate to see what passes off for reading and writing comprehension over there.
Twin-Skies, here's the kind of reading and writing they have at this "Christian" school. Check out the footer in their "Christian" school newsletter...
http://www.cmcschool.org/Site%20Files/web-content/hilites_pdfs/marchapr…
Thanks for removing all doubt as to what will be taught at U-Morris.
I think he forgot to mention the rest of the civilized planet. It should be like this: "Thanks for removing all doubt as to what will be taught at U-Morris, and the rest of the civilized planet." He makes it sound like that's bad thing or something. I don't get it.
hm, interesting. according to the file posted by sic#3185, ms. boten is apparently just as much a jesus-freak as her dad. I daresay she was never planning on going to a secular university.
Despite that, I am having hilarious visions of this wannabe-interior-designer getting a massive culture-shock on account of the other students at the Minneapolis Institute of Arts *snort*
er. that was sic@#185. the thread hasn't gone THAT far yet :-p
@sic #187
Damn you - I almost snorted my coffee into my nostrils from reading that. Fortunately, the horrible writing is easily overshadowed by the hideous cover and layout art. It's a lovely coloring book in total.
Educational Goals of Central Minnesota Christian School (from website)
Develop a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
Learn to discern God’s will for their lives.
Unfold their God-given talents so they can use them in obedience.
Love, encourage, and accept each other with the attitude of a servant.
View the world as being created and daily maintained by a loving God.
Respond daily to God’s revelation of Himself.
Obtain the skills and knowledge necessary to be effective kingdom citizens.
Acquire a life long passion for learning more about God’s Word and God’s world
[throw up]
PZ, I loved your responses to this letter.
And you would have thought that as they are on Volume 53 Issue 6, the Central Minnesota Christian School might have worked out how to spell their own name, as the footer on each page has it as 'Christain'. Tch.
How does this work:
"...let truth take it where it leads no matter how improbable a direction..."
after
"...this impossible Theory of Evolution..."
So long as the truth leads to his own ideas then.
Steve Broten farted:
Sorry Steve, but creationism is silly. Not scary, just silly.
And God's will is that I should rape puppies, he told me so.
PZ's comments are really funny. But the original letter made me sick to my stomach.
I pity the young girl, who cannot be blamed for having a moronic father, but will pay for it nonetheless.
@littlejohn (#123):
Well, knock me down with a feather. I was brought up as a practising Catholic, and went to a Catholic school where half the teachers were clergy, and I did Latin GCSE (am I the only one who thinks that it's actually a very useful subject to study?) and I know what "macula" means, both medically and linguistically. And yet I don't remember being taught this at all.
Ah well, it was probably my brain subconsciously filtering out all the R.E. crud so it could fit in more useful stuff - like, er, all the square roots from 1 to 100 to 4 d.p., the entire periodic table with relative atomic masses. 8-) I am so square.
* English Majorette (or was it Steve Broten) asked me to tell you that it's "who'se".
Qwerty #165: Thank you for that. I now have Madonna stuck in my head singing "Every time you come / It's like a little prayer..."
Oh, I love the cluelessness of "Cause for Pause" in the newsletter from Broten's school that sic (#187) linked.
The author mentions a previous school trip (evangelising? In Hollywood?? Poor children. Poor Hollywood residents and tourists. Poor film stars!) and asks why they chose to fly across the country rather than spread the Gospel at home in Prinsburg.
Well, one reason that springs immediately to mind is that if you've been making a nuisance of yourself proselytising in a faraway place, you can escape afterwards and retain your anonymity. If instead you pester the residents of your own town to "let Christ into your lives" and "Fully Rely On God", then forever afterwards you will be that smug teenager who was more concerned about winning their soul for Christ (regardless of their wishes) than actually doing anything of service to the community, and anyway, weren't you caught "saddlebacking" outside the recent school disco?
Which might explain why, as the Bible observes, a prophet is never accepted in his own country!
Oh, and flying around the country to pray at people? What about the bloody fuel use and CO2 emissions, at a time of climate change and approaching peak oil? Is this not just bad taste?
And to top it all off:
O RLY?
Don't hold out much hope for the daughter. My ex sister-in-law was an English major at John Brown Christian University in Arkansas (where her fundie evangie dad taught). The only job she ever had en route to the MRS degree was writing verse for christian greeting cards! The other sister-in-law is still a religious nutter, and the brother-in-law is a Biker for Christ.
My ex-husband, known as the black sheep of the family, discovered mind-altering substances at age 11 and was given up for a lost cause.
English Majorette wrote:
"Maybe your daughter can be an English major"
Eat shit, professor!
Seeing as how you barely get anything published anymore, maybe you should have paid more attention in English class, douche!"
I know I'm late for the party - I intended a post to correct Ms. Majorette's misconception but the professor responded very promptly. I have yet to see a subsequent post from English Majorette offering an apology.
It puzzles me that while I understood the meaning of the "Maybe your daughter can be an English major" comment quite readily as a critique of the correspondent's skills, my fellow English major was insulted. It could be because I finished my degrees over 15 years ago and I'm not sensitive to them not being "real" degrees like science and engineering. I like science (otherwise why would I read this blog?)- but English was too much fun to pass up.
Since UVT now needs a commencment speaker, why not they ask PZ? I'll write suggesting it.
Wow! There must be a common theme of creationists and comic sans. My dad (a creationist minister) always writes me these silly diatribes in ROYAL BLUE COMIC SANS. The most annoying rhetoric in the most annoying font. It makes sense on a cosmic level.
PZ, you eviscerated that poor sap like the rotting cephalopod that he is. Oopps, I think I just insulted decaying squids, sorry.
Please keep posting these with your comments. They're very funny. Without the comments, they're just tragic.
I still can't believe we live in a day and age when people can ignore science in favor of supernatural beings and the flawed writings of a nearly 2000-year-old document.
Minor correction:
"[From Stein? Nixonian hack with no knowledge of science and a failed track record in economics?]"
That was Ben's father Herb. Though Ben is still scientifically illiterate
Dan #207...no, PZ is right
Ben Stein also was a speech writer for Nixon, and his track record of economic expertise was seen recently:
http://www.salon.com/tech/htww/2009/01/20/ben_stein_and_history/index.h…
Nathan, Comic Sans is convention PZ uses to indicate crackpottery.
Though it's funny that your dad uses it too.
Hilarious! Please continue to post these from time to time as they are very invigorating. Nothing like a good belly laugh.