I have a horrendous series of connections to get home — Bloomington → Atlanta → Detroit → Minneapolis — and I'm getting these annoying email alerts from the airline every 20 minutes warning me of problems and delays in my various connections. Apparently, there's some storm in Atlanta that is messing up schedules all over the place. So maybe I won't get home. Maybe I'll be trapped in airports for days on end. The best result at this point is that I drag my tired frame home late, late tonight.
So…Open Thread! Fill the void caused by my absence with interesting conversation about whatever you want! I'm sure a creationist or two will show up to hammered at, so have fun.
(On a related note, we do have a surfeit of fools arguing futilely and ignorantly for creationism right now, and maybe it's time to cull the herd a bit. One suggestion is to play Survivor: Pharyngula for a while and vote off a few. Can you come up with challenges our contestants must meet in order to be permitted to preserve their posting privileges?)
- Log in to post comments
Facilis @937
Read that book very carefully. Hopefully through Tolkien's grace you will come to understand the sacred truths; Gollum died for our sins and that one day Frodo will return from across the sea to redeem all mankind.
Just ordered Weaving the Rainbow.
I'm hot for George Hrab.
We have a winner! Claxon sounds! Bacon hits the deep fryer!
Thank you all.
Tax Religion.
Tark
D'oh! Dealer busts.
The Emotion Machine Marvin Minsky
I Am a Strange Loop Douglas Hofstadter
Nation Terry Pratchett
Coraline: A Visual Companion Stephen Jones
Watching the Watchmen Dave Gibbons [Kwok]who signed it "for Ken, without whom I could never have learned how to draw my own ass"[/Kwok]
A Concise Introduction to Logic Patrick Hurley (recommended, with sandpaper, to facilis, as a suppository)
Janine,
The Marriane Faithfull "best of"...? I was being a smart-arse, apologies. The compilation I have is "Blazing Away" and a favourite.
I agree though - Broken English was her best.
Almost finished with Derek Bailey's Improvisation: Its Nature and Practice in Music. Just started Sync or Swarm: Improvising Music in a Complex Age by David Borgo. After that, it's Krugman's book.
Two more reasons to avoid hanging with the godders:
1) http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/443070
2) http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/443068
No atheists were harmed in the course of these events.
Just about to start reading Nation by Terry Pratchett.
To bring the bacon, accordion, and recipe segments of this thread together in what I see as a most agreeable way, I give you:
Toad-In-the-Hole Playing the Accordion.
OK. Admittedly, the recipe doesn't call for a lot of bacon, but why feel constrained by that?
I doubt if anyone's missed me but I must say I've missed immersing myself in the pool of rational thinking here. I'm floating around in the Northern Hemisphere occasionally lurking as time permits. I also miss the sexy puns and take no prisoners style of SC who seems absent of late.
Please oh please vote Facilis off the island. One can only stand so much closeted VD worship.
bastion of sass, let me know if Nation reads for you like Tiffany Aching meets Small Gods, as read by Jared Diamond and Richard Dawkins (which of course it could never be, since only Sir Pterry could pull of such a feat).
In Argentina bacon is cut into fat little chunks of half fat, half meat.
In other words... it's not bacon. The first thing I had after landing NYC was a cheddar cheese and bacon omelet... they also don't have cheddar cheese and when you find a place that claims they have it, it is American processed cheese... from Brazil.
Reading at present:
Neal Stephenson's Quicksilver, volume I of the Baroque Cycle.
Also reading my casebook for my Remedies course.
=====
Seems I'm the only vote for banning Scott from Oregon.
However, as an LGBT-type person, I'll go for booting the odious Barb.
Conspiracy theory (my own):
Since the Australian Government removed the nicotine and tar ratings on cigarettes they have been, without consent, slowly reducing the levels of nicotine in order to sanctimoniously wean us off tobacco (ie using us as experimental guinea pigs "for our own good")
My evidence is purely anecdotal, but I would be interested in observations of any other aussie smokers on the blog.
I have just noticed that:
1. I can punch back two cigarettes and still not get a hit. The morning cigarette is dull and listless (maybe its just me without enough caffeine).
2. I can't remember the last time i got hiccoughs from smoking (ie nicotine overdose)
3. I don't get the nicotine "burn" at the back of the throat any more (I always thought that was the smoke heat until I chewed nicotine gum)
4. My auto-immune diseases are flaring up - and smoking is known to depress the immune system (I only got these things when I gave up smoking for 7 years)
Any comments or observations?
mayhempix sed:
In Argentina bacon is cut into fat little chunks of half fat, half meat.
In other words... it's not bacon.
Neither is that stuff served in the UK under the misplaced moniker of bacon.
Ham that is, not bacon. Tastes just fine. But really - quite the let-down when one reads that tomorrow morning's breakfast includes "bacon" but it's just . . . ham.
@BMS
At one point Argentina (more specifically, the now province of Buenos Aires since Argentina didn't yet exist as a country) was controlled by the UK. That must be where the Porteno idea of bacon originated.
"Idea of bacon" indeed! That explains it.
Limbo-wife and I were sorely disappointed in Ft. William, Scotland, to find our morning "bacon" was big fat slices of ham. :(
Sven @ 882
Or Brave Combo. Which is really a shame.
So say we all.
So, I see Facilis likes TIA. No surprise there.
Deacon Duncan (with the patience of a saint) critiqued it, from beginning to end.
Much amusement ensued.
Reporting for duty !!
Last books I read? John Gribbin's "Deep Simplicity" and Scott Bakker's "Prince of Nothing" trilogy !
@ Peter McKellar #1017:
Get yourself some nicotine patches if you think the lack of it is worse for your health than the presence of it. That's safer than smoking more and more cigarettes.
@ BMS, re bacon/ham:
You must have been going to some very strange places in the UK then (eg swanky or faux-foreign restaurants?), because in sensible supermarkets all over the country bacon is bacon and ham is ham.
However, what the French sell under the name "English bread" is more like cake in texture; and pancakes, scones and muffins are messed up all over the world.
I think I've been playing too much Starcraft, I now hear the marine's voice in my head and the Starcraft background music.
@1017: stop smoking. Use nicotine gum or patches if you have to. The lack of impact you describe is habituation; you are addicted.
Books--huh. I'm re-reading Climbing Mount Improbable by Dawkins and I just finished House to House by David Bellavia. And this weekend I read a section of Army Field Manual 7-93: LRSD Operations (which is a page turner, I can assure you).
I have a request for those who post here regularly: For the sake of all things noodly, when quoting the batshit-fucking-insane, include the number of the comment.
Its not that hard, just look in the left-hand corner of the comment.
Don't make us search through the whole thread to get our fix of insane godbot rant.
This is especially true when replying to loons in different time zones. I'm looking at you David M,OM!
I forgot to mention;
BACON
Bacon and possibly, if the is enough room, more BACON!
@SEF:
what you may not realise, is that American bacon is *only* the streaky part of the rasher. The eye is sold separately as "Canadian bacon"; they don't recognise that as being real bacon, too. I can't recall if US bacon usually has the rind; I vaguely recall not.
SEF @835
Just what are you trying to incinerate young man!!!
A pile of old tyres??
At #1014, Ken Cope wrote:
Please explain what you mean by "as read by Jared Diamond and Richard Dawkins." I have no idea what you might mean.
Typically no, though you can get it depending on your butcher. Yes american bacon is typically the fatty party of the belly.
The curing and smoking is what really makes it bacon though. The cut that is used to make bacon is actually a pretty fantastic cut to braise (I did this weekend as noted above). I'll have the recipe up with pics on my other blog soon.
SEF, we have scones here in Texas. Central Market and Whole Foods sell 'em. They just seem like a heavy biscuit to me; and, since we're two peoples divided by a common language, I remind you that in the US a biscuit is not a flat sweet thing (that would be a cookie), but a bread-like thing that can assume various shapes.
And by the way, how is "scone" pronounced by those of you who grew up eating them?
In two primary different ways - by groups who each insist the other one is being posh (an accusation which is often an insult in the UK):
sc-on
sc-own
As far as I'm concerned, the UK definition of bacon is mostly about the source animal and the specific treatment applied to the cut (ie curing and smoking as RBDC also believes to be the case) rather than the specific location or amount of fat on it. Beyond that basic requirement, "streaky bacon" would be the messed up fat and meat sort, while "lean bacon" would be the cleaner meat cuts (often with some of the edge fat trimmed too, as well as the rind) and "back bacon" refers to the location from which the cut was taken.
Hey there religion-haters, just thought Id take a minute here to salute you and your ability to compartmentalize and look past a man's spiritual and religious superstitions to appreciate his work of art, The Watchmen. I didnt think you had it in you.
Its the night of the simple-minded trolls,it would appear.
yawn
Nerd@925,
My thoughts exactly: new meds; Rooke is like a whole different kinda person in this thread than his initial incarnation circa the cracker episodes. And I too would have placed him in his 40-50's base on the earlier stuff.
While Barb is, well, evil in her beliefs, so are a lot of people like her in real life; her larger sin on this blog is that's she's boring and incapable of empathy, self-reflection or change.
Kwok, beyond the pompousness is frankly creepy. I think he's trying for jocularity but lacks sufficient social skills to pull it off.
On Facilis (+VD):
Beyond the (as usual wrong) idea that F/VD think there is a "the [] test" or that they have any grasp of "facts"
I think here, F/VD are referring to a thread we once had where there was an online Asperger's "test" and a bunch of us went off an took it, reporting back our results as a lark. It didn't surprise me that that there was an apparent above average rate, and it wouldn't surprise me if in actual fact that was really true (as opposed to some random set of online questions). But apparently F/VD think this is somehow relevant, or perhaps even a BadThing™. I seem to remember a real study reporting a skew towards Asperger's in what we would self-refer to as geeks and nerd.
Oh, and: bacon. Hmmm, I've made it to the end of the thread so it is time to go make bacon.
GodIsLove sayeth, "...you will BURN in HELL for all eternity... ALL ETERNITY."
LMAO, because nothing spells "L-O-V-E" like inflicting eternal agony on your own children!
Re: Heartbreak Hotel, this comes from the Heartbreak Hotel entry on Wikipedia:
There's no mention of Mike Oldfield, because he wasn't one of the performers on that particular song. He did, however, appear on the concert album which contains the Cale/Ayers/Nico version of the song: June 1, 1974.
@1036 How about "as interpreted by Jared Diamond and Richard Dawkins."
Maybe that's just online, I suspect he might be a supreme ass-kisser irl.
Are you referring to Alan Moore, self-admitted worshipper of a fraudulent puppet snake god?
Er, OK. It's terrible if people here don't respect Alan Moore's beliefs in things he himself doesn't respect! Waaaah!
Challenge the First: All Creationists must be able to accurately state the Theory of Evolution prior to criticizing it.
Challenge the Second: All Creationists must be able to identify at least one potential observation that would call into question the validity of Creation.
Challenge the Third: All Creationists must be able to state a single observation that *positively* supports creationism *to the exclusion* of evolution ("Not Evolution, Therefore Creationism" shall be grounds for immediate dismissal).
Hey I loved his comic, im just surprised I havent seen Alan Moore mocked on this site for his Black Magick practices. Anyone care to guess what his next book is about? Will PZ dance an atheist jig on Alan's Ouija board?
Oh yea, forgot, nary a word, just as long as Alan's not a Christian.
*rolls eyes*
Matt, you're a dope.
Right, cuz PZ has never criticized occultists or non-Christian monotheists. *eyeroll*
Maybe it's more like this, Matt:
"Nary a word, just as long as Alan doesn't try to insinuate aspects of his mystical beliefs into public school science curricula or into the law of the land."
Alright, that's just a rough draft, but you're a bright boy, I'm sure you get the idea.
Just thought I'd stick this link here for youall's amusement.
Meera Syal on religion. I heartily agree with just about everything she says here.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7902340.stm
@ Tassie Devil #932 -
Rattle's not my cup of tea with Beethoven either, especially when I own his Beethoven symphony cycle with the Wiener Philharmoniker, and wasn't really impressed (IMHO he's much better conducting Mahler. Heard him conduct the Philadelphia Orchestra about five years ago in an absolutely riveting account of the Mahler 5th Symphony.).
As for Beethoven symphony cycle recordings, my choices are these:
1) Haitink and the London Symphony Orchestra on the LSO Live label. Excellent sound, sensational performances from the LSO and Haitink's literally rethought his conception of Beethoven due to the relatively new Jonathan Del Mar-edited Barenreiter Edition scores. I especially recommend their performances of the 3rd, 4th, 6th, 7th and 9th symphonies.
2) Abbado and the Berliner Philharmoniker on the Deutsche Grammophon label. Think the BPO plays better with Abbado at the podium than with Rattle, and again, especially noteworthy since Abbado, like Haitink, has carefully reconsidered his conception of Beethoven using the same Barenreiter Edition. Their 3rd symphony recording ties with Haitink's as the best I have heard in recent recordings, and I also like very much their accounts of the 5th, 6th, 7th and 9th symphonies.
3) Zinman and the Tonhalle Orchestra on the RCA/Arte Nova label primarily for two reasons. It is much cheaper than either Haitink's or Abbado's latest. It was also the first Beethoven symphony cycle from a major orchestra using the Barenreiter Edition.
An interesting one in progress is with Osmo Vanska conducting the Minnesota Orchestra.
John
@ windy # 1046 -
No, I'm not a "very good asskisser". Even Ken Miller has yelled at me (Hint: Take a look at PZ's latest thread on state excellent science education advocacy groups.).
SEF-
No, and no, and no.
This is bacon before its cooked
This is bacon cooking.
This is bacon cooked.
Anything else is . . . not bacon.
What we were served - all over Scotland, in London, and in Stratford-upon-Avon (at a Holiday Inn no less) - was ham.
Posted by: Matt
"Hey there religion-haters, just thought Id take a minute here to salute you and your ability to compartmentalize and look past a man's spiritual and religious superstitions to appreciate his work of art, The Watchmen."
Why are you such a thick skulled ass... did God create you that way?
Please show one example where anyone has ever posted here that because a person has personal spiritual or religious beliefs, it automatically negates the art or any other valid body of work they have produced. From Newton to Led Zeppelin Pharyngulites have shown respect, admiration and at times fanboi allegiance to many.
The beauty of Watchmen is its moral ambiguity in the face of reality, that we all compromise our ideals when faced with imperfect choices and the fact that no god intervenes to save anyone.
Plus it has the best superhero sex scene ever.
believe it or not #1056, I wasnt being sarcastic. There isnt even the disclaimer, "not too bad, for a Wiccan", that Id expect to see if (im being generous) an openly Christian artist produced something of similar acclaim.
>>>insinuate aspects of his mystical beliefs into public school science curricula or into the law of the land
Nice try #1051, but this suitably high bar is not the trigger for anti-religious tirades around here. BTW, I agree with your sentiment and would join you full throated against all state sponsored religious 'insinuations'.
Perhaps you can point me to a thread here where Alans mysticism has been derisively and properly trashed. Certainly Ive seen others non-Xian spirituality mocked around here, just not Mr A. Moores'.
Should PZ start a thread of every person who believes in some nonsense yet is able to produce something of worth totally unrelated or of at least some artistic value?
I FULLY EXPECT PZ TO SOUNDLY THRASH JOHN COLTRANE IMEDIATELY!!
el suck on the copy / paste job in the blockquotes above.
How about this: Matt, rather stupid for a dumbass.
Oh no! I must stop listening to Richard Thompson because he is a Muslim.
A decent point, Reverend Chimp, though Coltrane is a non-sequiter. Just what did you think "A Love Supreme" was all about? Nearly everything Coltrane produced, post addiction in particular, was homage to God and family. A family-values hipster really. No doubt if PZ posted a half-dozen or so posts about him and some major work of art his Christianity would rapidly become a topic.
Nah, Alan's gotten gobsmacking good press around here lately, thought Id fill the void.
Matt:
Ok, point taken, but there's no single "bar". It's more like an array of context-dependent behavior thresholds.
For example, the recent Brazilian rape/abortion story, or the infamous cracker story, or any number of child-harmed-in-exorcism stories, or any number of stories that deal with the repression and cruelties inflicted upon women under fundamental Islam. And so on, and so on. Not to mention all the anti-pseudoscience and anti-woo stories.
So you believe Moore should be trashed. Ok, maybe his beliefs wouldn't get much respect around here, but is it really an indication of systemic Pharyngulan hypocrisy that he hasn't been trashed yet? The implications of my original post on the subject, and the "high bar" as you so generously put it, are this: Moore hasn't incurred the wrath of the awooist population because Moore himself hasn't forced the issue by trying to inflict his belief system on society in a way that would make liberal awooists object. Yet. Not that I'm aware of, anyway.
By contrast, the same cannot be said for, say, Orson Scott Card, whose general body of work is not exactly held in low esteem around here. AFAIK.
Granted, this argument is imperfect, but it'll have to stand as is for the moment. Gotta go make lunch, then get back to the debugger.
Non-sequitur in what way? Because he hasn't been discussed here?
Well yeah I know what A Love Supreme was about. That's why I brought it up to even more emphasize my point.
Just because A Love Supreme is an expression of Coltrane's religious views, it in no way takes aways from the artistic beauty of the piece.
Watchman, as far as I know I haven't seen or read it, is an artistic piece done absent any major tip of the hat to his supernatural leanings.
I love the Cerebus comic series and up until Sims misogynistic views took over the entirety of the comic, I thought it was fantastic. That was the problem, his batshittyness started to affect the comic to a point that they were nearly indiscernible.
If watchman was the same way then I guarantee that PZ or whoever would make a point of dissecting it.
Watchmen and the author's ability has gotten great press.
Not sure that Alan in particular outside Watchmen has.
>>>but is it really an indication of systemic Pharyngulan hypocrisy that he hasn't been trashed yet?
I dont think I went that far. As I said, Ive certainly read other mysticsim-trashings around here. Just noting the silence here over Alan.
>>>Moore hasn't incurred the wrath of the awooist population because Moore himself hasn't forced the issue by trying to inflict his belief system on society in a way that would make liberal awooists object. Yet.
As for inflicting beliefs...I dont agree that writing a book on _______ religion is 'inflicting' of anything. Thats rather insulting to true victims of religions infliction throughout history. Like Repubs who see commies in every Whole Foods, and Dems who see a fascist in every policeman, you run the risk of self-caricature with this statement.
All that said, Mr. Moores next book is rumored to be on Black Magick, replete with a fold-out Quija board. If this proves true, I'll look forward to your comments on the matter.
Not sure you are quite there yet. Typically the people trashed for holding silly beliefs are the ones not just writing books, but wanting to inject their brand of "woo" into the political, scientific or education spheres. not always mind you, but way more than not.
If his book on black magic calls for people to treat it with equal respect with more natural explanations then you may just see it eviscerated here.
How about this for an attempt at agreement Rev?
Compulsion = infliction.
Conversation /= infliction.
Yeah on a very simple scale I guess that's close, though there are so many nuances to the issue that it doesn't really cover everything.
I don't think you'll get anyone here (well maybe) that is against conversation on topics.
But when asked to provide support for one's position and people start waffling and giving circular arguments to support their position is when they get hammered on. Which is what usually leads to the dogpile situations that are admittedly frequent here.
Matt:
Ok. Point taken.
I can't disagree with you there. (If you thought I might, then I must have been unclear about something earlier, which is entirely my fault.)
No. That's "crispy bacon" - of particularly low quality, in being high fat and low meat. Bacon rashers cooked properly should be flatter than that - just crinkled a bit and curled at the edges.
Matt said:
Well, that would be Ouija with an "O", but only if it's from Parker Brothers, who happen to hold the trademark on that name.
Other than that, I would probably be interested in checking out Mr. Moore's book. The fact that I don't believe in a magic sky-fairy does not prevent me from enjoying literature produced by people who do. I'm also rather fond of some of Isaac Bonewits' books, but that doesn't make me a Druid. Does Mr. Bonewits go around promoting his neo-pagan faith as the One True Religion®? Not that I've noticed. I usually only see so-called "traditional" groups of the Abrahamic flavor do that. That's generally the impetus behind my own remarks against organized religions and their adherents.
Dear Pharingulans
Those nasty religiots are trying to shut us up in South Africa. A local shopping chain has banned a student publication for blasphemous content. Please show your support for freedom of speech and thought by crashing this poll:
http://www.mnet.co.za/Mnet/Shows/carteblanche/default.asp
Thanks
No. That's "crispy bacon" - of particularly low quality, in being high fat and low meat. Bacon rashers cooked properly should be flatter than that - just crinkled a bit and curled at the edges.
No, that's just bacon.
That's the bacon the USA Pharynguloids are discussing and drooling over. That high fat content? That's why it's so delicious and why we drool and moan over it.
WTF is a rasher anyway? Nevermind, don't care. Just accept that what "you" call something and what "we" call something, just because both sound alike and are spelled alike, are not the same thing, 'k? 'Nuf with your pedantry.
I'm going to have to agree with BMS, though I never cook my bacon that crispy.
The fat is key to the goodness of bacon.
Actually the fat is key to the goodness of pork. Industrial farming and breeding in response to market pressure have turned the marvelous pig into a lean less tasty animal. That is why when I can I try to buy heritage breed pork. They are usually raised on small farms, are not subjected to the nastiness of some industrial farms techniques and are not bred to be something they aren't.
@Matt: if you really want to hear something earth-shakingly devastating, Bach's music is beautiful, although he was- gasp!- a Christian! Horrors!
ach's music is beautiful, although he was- gasp!- a Christian! Horrors!
so was (some of) Wagner's, even though he was a Nazi.
your point?
Was not Richard Strauss briefly Reichsmusikkammer?
You're the one who doesn't seem to want to accept it. However, if you're in the UK again sometime, asking for "crispy bacon" is more likely to get you what you actually want. There's a good reason for pedantry - as any scientist should know.
I still don't believe they would really have served you ham under the name "bacon" though. I expect you just don't know what ham is either.
Wagner wasn't a Nazi since he died in 1883, six years before Hitler was born. However, Wagner was anti-semitic, a proponent of Nietzsche's superman (Wagner believed he was one), and an all-around asshole. He began an affair with Cosima von Bülow and was shocked that her husband objected. Wagner could not understand why Hans von Bülow could possibly stand between Wagner and something (and he did consider Cosima to be a thing) he wanted.
While I agree there are indeed good, even excellent, reasons for pedantry, there are no good reasons for your pedantry on this particular issue.
I expect you just don't know what ham is either.
I grew up in the South.
Still here? Go shoppin!
However, Wagner was anti-semitic, a proponent of Nietzsche's superman (Wagner believed he was one),
Have you ever heard of a person who believed in a "superman" type theory that didn't believe that he (or she) was one of the "supermen"? What's the point of worshipping a random group as the ideal if you're not part of it?
Untrue. Since you are apparently hard of thinking, I'll repeat what should be the most significant one to you: if you are ever in the UK again then asking for the correctly named thing (viz. "crispy bacon") is more likely to get you what you want.
SEF@1082 - why would anyone want to be somewhere else and get what they get at home? I have never worked that out. When I am away, I want the local stuff. If I don't like it, I won't order it next time!
Having been in the UK an awful long time ago, I can say I thoroughly enjoyed whatever was set before me as long as it was well done - and not just slapped down. I don't ever recall having trouble with the bacon, but then, I tend to pay more attention to Local Custom than perhaps others of my region.
I still remember that fish and chips I had by simply looking for - and following - a long line of obviously working folk down an alley off Piccadilly Circus. Actually, I think it still repeats on me occasionally ;-) - but it was local, it was soaked in grease and was just about the best I had ever had.
And I didn't expect it to be like a BK Big Fish Sandwich.
JC
>>Brownian - Ooh-ooh! Let's exchange recipes!
Soylent Green because it IS people.
>>Brownian - Ooh-ooh! Let's exchange recipes!
Soylent Green because it IS people.
Bacon, I'm late to this thread. But while we're swapping tunes, here's Creeping to the Cross.
PS - My earlier comment was the result of some html fail. I meant to write;
"Bacon < bacon + cheese -> There is no god. Discuss."
But I think we proved that one.
Did somebody mention Jehovah's Witless? I got the best anti-JW page on the Net, check it out.
http://jehovahswitless.weebly.com