Classic Edition: Stronger Than Old Hapless Gods

I was scheduled for a deeply unpleasant medical test yesterday, which I thought was going to leave me lots of time for blogging. yesterday afternoon and this morning. The preliminary test turned out to be so unpleasant (if anybody ever offers to stick a tube through your nose into your stomach, decline politely) that I didn't go through with the test, and, in fact, was kind of wiped out all last night. Hence, yesterday's light blogging, and today's lazy blogging.

One of the controversial things that China Miéville said on the Readercon panels I went to was to sort of dismiss the whole idea of narrative as some sort of confining bourgeois construct. He appeared to be arguing that any work with a coherent story was inherently dishonest, as there is no story in reality (though he did back off this somewhat in other comments).

While I'm not the right sort of person to argue that there is some greater purpose to reality, I have a hard time accepting his claims about the artificiality of narrative, or, rather, the idea that it's something we can or should dispense with. To cop a phrase from Teresa Nielsen Hayden, Story is a force of nature. Even in science, narrative is very important to the way we understand the world.

Below the fold, I'll reproduce the text of an old post on story in science, which produced some intersting discussion at the time, and seems sort of relevant to the comments at Readercon.

In the very nice comment thread that's sprung up around the last post (this is why I envy Teresa Nielsen Hayden), Mary Messall writes about Physics in general:

The thing is stories don't give you numbers that can be checked by experiment. Equations do. Insofar as we demand that our science be experimentally verifiable, we're demanding that it consist of equations. In that sense there's no such thing as "a scientific explanation." Explanations are inherently unscientific -- unpredictive, unfalsifiable.

What's more, I find (to my dismay) that a great many, perhaps even the majority, of the equations we're given in class are used *without* interpretation. Sometimes I wander around demanding an interpretation for some specific expression from everyone in the department, and mostly I eventually come up with some story that satisfies me, but it's amazing how many of the people I ask in the meantime don't know and *don't care*.

And they're better at solving problems than I am.

I'm a little bit bitter about some of the professors who've had that attitude. "Interpretation is the same thing as popularization, as speculation. Frivolous. Unrigorous. Beneath us. Shut up and calculate." They're right, in a way. It can't predict anything.

I guess I still think stories (and applications, which are usually disdained by the same people) are the [horse], and the equations are the [cart]. But the equations-for-their-own-sakes people may be better scientists than I am. I'm not sure.

It's a big enough idea that it deserves a post of its own. I've written about something vaguely similar in the area of lecture prep-- twice, in fact: one, two-- so it should come as no surprise that I tend to think of stories as an integral part of physics.

Contrary to what Mary says, I've found that the very best physicists I know (and this includes a couple of Nobel laureates, if I may be permitted a JVP moment) are the ones who have the best grasp of the stories and interpretations. At least for the sort of physics that I do, it's essential to ground your understanding of the physics in terms of the real motions of real atoms that are the basis of everything. If you can understand what's going on in simple terms, and more importantly explain it that way to other people, that's a big step toward being able to push experiments in new directions, and explore new phenomena.

To some degree, this is an issue of sub-fields. I work in atomic, molecular, and optical physics, where the problems we study generally involve a smallish number of atoms doing comprehensible things. Other fields rely much more heavily on sophisticated mathematical tricks to make their problems tractable, which makes it harder to tell stories about what's going on. I took one class on Solid State, and after the first couple of weeks, I no longer had the foggiest idea what was going on in terms of actual electrons moving through solid materials-- it was all "reciprocal lattice vectors," which I still don't understand-- which made it a deeply unpleasant class all told.

On the other hand, though, I think the link between success in physics and a good grasp of stories could be extended to many of the best and brightest regardless of research topic. Einstein's real breakthrough with Special Relativity was a matter of storytelling-- people knew before Einstein that Lorentz transformations would solve the problems with Maxwell's Equations, but thought it was too weird. Einstein showed that not only was it the right solution, but it had to be that way, and he did it by providing stories to make it all make sense (again, see some earlier posts: one, two). Schroedinger's equation is in some sense a story that makes Heisenberg's matrix mechanics palatable (the theories are mathematically equivalent, but as I understand it, nobody could make heads or tails of Heisenberg's stuff). And when you get down to it, what are Feynman diagrams but little stories about what happens to an electron as it moves from point A to point B?

Yes, in some sense, the equations are the main thing. But when you look at the history of physics, you find again and again that the real giants of the field are the people who matched an interpretation to the equations, who came up with stories to explain it all. Any fool with a computer can manipulate equations, but it takes real genius to explain what's going on in a way that makes it make sense.

I don't have a good answer to "What's a photon?", but at least I can say this: If you feel that interpretations and stories are an important part of physics, you're in good company.

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A nasogastic tube is only unpleasant going down. A typical medical drone, if it cannot find a natural passage through your nose, will break new ground through cancellous bone. It's weighted with mercury as a battering ram. They x-ray to verify stomach not lung placement. NEVER let a doctor or LVN/LPN try it. RN with orthopedic shoes only. You want somebody who made all her mistakes in other noses. You are supposed to drink fluid as they snake it in.

If passersby freak, good fun! Tell friends the procedure will find it and kill it, and there probably aren't more than a few at most, and they don't survive in air for long seeking new hosts, and the government research program has been shut down. A nice digital siren sounding in quiet moments motivates the crowd. OOGAH! OOGAH! "Got another one."

Ever see Plexiglas portholes in fistulated cows?

Constructing narratives is something human brains seem wired to do. Thus I'd say that narratives do exist in the real world. Depending, I guess, on how you define real world....

MKK

One of the controversial things that China Miéville said on the Readercon panels I went to was to sort of dismiss the whole idea of narrative as some sort of confining bourgeois construct. He appeared to be arguing that any work with a coherent story was inherently dishonest, as there is no story in reality (though he did back off this somewhat in other comments).

This was an author talking about writing, yes? From my uneducated "I'm a physicist, not an english major" point of view, it sounds to me like this guy is saying that "any work that isn't dull, boring, pointless, and a completely pain in the butt to work through is worthless."

All I can say to that is : foo.

As for narratives in Physics : oh, yeah, it's very important to know what the equations. Just shutting up and calculating is what a lot of the work is, but if you've lost track of what it is you're calculating and why, then the chances of your doing wrong or meaningless work go up hugely. Even in the introductory astronomy class I teach, one of the biggest things I struggle with is getting the kids to see the *meaning* of the equations, to connect them with the words and with the understanding. They'd often much rather see them as tools that you use to plug numbers into in order to get a number you can box on the test.

-Rob

You know, it's very odd that China Mieville would say those things, given that his books (I've read "Perdido Street Station" and "The Scar," and I'm about 200 pages into "Iron Council") all have strongly-drawn, well-defined protagonists and compelling narratives. (Chad was dead-on about his lack of desire to provide comfort to the reader, however.) I'm not sure if he's got a blind spot about his own work or if (more likely) even he would admit to enjoying writing dishonest, class-reinforcing narratives with protagonists like everybody else.

By Nicholas Condon (not verified) on 14 Jul 2006 #permalink

He might admit that, in so far as they are narratives, they are dishonest, but he does his best not to make them class-reinforcing.
You can construct a narrative about the movement of a single atom or photon in a lab, and it would certainly help me understand what was going on. But an experiment is an abstraction from the real world. When you study the movement of that single atom, you try to control for as many factors as possible, so you find out what other factors are important. If you took a random metre cube from anywhere except deep space, it would be quite difficult to construct a narrative to explain it.
Similarly, if you took a new-born baby and raised it in a computer-controlled environment with no human contact, you could tell a truthful narrative about that life. Human lives are messier - no clean beginnings or endings, relationships that are hard to describe or understand, and the dialogue is awful. So yeah, conventional narrative is dishonest.

Not sure about "conventional" narrative (I assume Ray is referring to literature as opposed to science), but "scientific" narrative is not so much dishonest as necessarily incomplete. The trick is to have enough narrative there to make your equations meaningful.
Obviously once you understand the math, the inadequacies of a narrative explanation may become clear, but it helps to have the story as an entry point into the the more rigorous layers of the science.

Yes, I'd agree that scientific narrative is not dishonest, just incomplete. Literary narrative is dishonest, because incomplete.

I'm curious about the phrase "shut up and calculate". Years ago, I had an ongoing discussion with the mathematical physicist John Baez about interpretations of quantum mechanics. He basically ended up rejecting every possible position that I would consider an "interpretation". I jokingly called his point of view the "shut up and calculate" interpretation, but I had no idea at the time where I had heard that phrase before. It was there in my head.

Nicholas Condon writes: You know, it's very odd that China Mieville would say those things, given that his books (I've read "Perdido Street Station" and "The Scar," and I'm about 200 pages into "Iron Council") all have strongly-drawn, well-defined protagonists and compelling narratives.

I've only read "Perdido Street Station", and it seems to me that in that book, Mieville took pains to create narratives, but to also puncture them so as to prevent any simple notion of what the book is "about". The menace that takes up most of the action of the book is introduced almost casually, as a diversion from what appears to be the main story. What would appear from the first couple of chapters to be the main story, the driving force behind the action, peters out in the end without resolution (at least, the type of resolution that the reader was led to expect).

So Mieville seemed to be aware of narratives creeping into his novel, and made sure he subverted them.