Mostly Mute Monday: Out Of The Darkness (Synopsis)

“Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before.” -Edgar Allan Poe

Thanks to the Hubble Space Telescope, we've learned for a certainty that the black abyss of empty space isn't really so empty. Far beyond what we can perceive with our naked eye (or even ground-based telescopes), galaxies exist and go on for tens of billions of light years.

Image credit: Digitized Sky Survey (DSS), STScI/AURA, Palomar/Caltech, and UKSTU/AAO, via http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/archive/releases/2010/01/image/h/. Image credit: Digitized Sky Survey (DSS), STScI/AURA, Palomar/Caltech, and UKSTU/AAO, via http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/archive/releases/2010/01/image/h/.

So what do we see if we take an area almost a third the size of the full Moon -- far larger than any of the Hubble deep fields -- and view it from the ultraviolet through the visible and into the infrared, capable of seeing objects 250,000,000 times fainter than our naked eye can see?

Image credit: NASA, ESA, R. Windhorst, S. Cohen, M. Mechtley, and M. Rutkowski (Arizona State University, Tempe), R. O’Connell (University of Virginia), P. McCarthy (Carnegie Observatories), N. Hathi (University of California, Riverside), R. Ryan (University of California, Davis), H. Yan (Ohio State University), and A. Koekemoer (Space Telescope Science Institute). Image credit: NASA, ESA, R. Windhorst, S. Cohen, M. Mechtley, and M. Rutkowski (Arizona State University, Tempe), R. O’Connell (University of Virginia), P. McCarthy (Carnegie Observatories), N. Hathi (University of California, Riverside), R. Ryan (University of California, Davis), H. Yan (Ohio State University), and A. Koekemoer (Space Telescope Science Institute).

Come find out, in spectacular pictures and a few words, on today's Mostly Mute Monday!

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For such a tiny slice of space to reveal so much, how could any man say we are alone? Lonely, maybe, given the proximity of potential star systems, but certainly not alone!

And you know that because no such aliens are mentioned in your mythological texts, right?

Funnily enough, no mention of the planet Neptune or Uranus either.

Neither is there mention that there are dinosaurs.

"Missing from my myth" appears to be unreliable at best as to determine whether something exists or not.

Well... @ Idiot #3 Research Nephilim and get back to me.
Dummy

:

By Ragtag Media (not verified) on 20 Jul 2015 #permalink

Antediluvian, yeti, all rather earthbound myths, don't you think?

#3 Nephilim => god bothering bollocks, don't bother

"Well… @ Idiot #3 Research Nephilim and get back to me."

Yes, I did.

Now what?

Interesting how the lower the level the understanding of science people exhibit the greater the reference to foolish religious stories and failed prophecies.

@RM,

Okay I researched nephilim. Apparently, they were giant humans. What the heck does that have to do with the fact that the planets Neptune and Uranus were not mentioned in the Bible, nor were dinosaurs, nor were a heck of a lot of other things that have been discovered since the Bible was written.

If you are using the lack of Biblical mention of extraterrestrial life as an argument against the existence of such life, you have a very weak argument indeed.

@SeanT
Did you actually read my first post in this thread?
What do you think I meant by this closer:
"Tell them Enrico"
?

By Ragtag Media (not verified) on 21 Jul 2015 #permalink

"Did you actually read my first post in this thread?"

Oh, he did. Did you mean anything by it, though?

Oh, by the way, inquiring minds want to know: what the f*k did that have to do with what Sean said?

@dean#9 WTF$%#$%&5... OK.. 5,4,3,2,1.. wheew.
OK, dean, would you please go to the dump thread for a reply..

@ #12 Wowzer.
R U KIDDING ME?

By Ragtag Media (not verified) on 21 Jul 2015 #permalink

Well, Tex, that didn't take so long to get derailed, did it? ;)

True dat PJ.
Wowzers shotgun diplomacy does it again.
Anyhow.
Back to your thought of Alien Life contact.

What are your thoughts regarding Enrico Fermi's paradox?

By Ragtag Media (not verified) on 21 Jul 2015 #permalink

No rm, I've seen the mental liquid manure you leave there. The substance-free comments you leave here are bad enough.

Well dean, that's not very humanist of you now is it?

By Ragtag Media (not verified) on 21 Jul 2015 #permalink

@ Tex, 15
to Fermi, it may appear as a paradox, but on a more practical approach, ask yourself how long it would take, with current technology, to head for the vicinity of A Centauri? 4 & a bit light years doesn't sound so far, but the time to travel that distance is immense.
To another species somewhere out there, we appear in their past, so what can be learned from us? Who would know we are even present? 200 years ago, we were scratching at methods of communication, so no footprint there to pick up. Even todays radio waves have changed, from analog signals, to digital, to encoded spread-spectrum transmissions. Perhaps others species have different methods of communication, so we are non-existent to their methods.
Any ET more intelligent than us would be very cautious to make contact. I cannot see them coming through the front door in any time soon. The same for us going elsewhere. We would have to be cautious and sensitive as to how we may affect another race. And that, may I say, we were not too careful about a few hundred years ago - just conquering willy-nilly.
Any ET less, or should I say, younger than us, probably hasn't developed the means, or , the need to travel in space & would not be aware of other life forms. :)

"And that, may I say, we were not too careful about a few hundred years ago – just conquering willy-nilly."

Two words: Nile Perch.

One more: Dodo.

"Well, Tex, that didn’t take so long to get derailed, did it? "

Raggie just has a body full of bile for anyone who doesn't subscribe or at least bow their head to their personal mythology.

"What are your thoughts regarding Enrico Fermi’s paradox?"

Mine.

Raggie, what does the bible's Nephilim have to do with aliens, dinosaurs, billionaires, Neptune or Uranus?

What were your thoughts when you wrote "Nephilim" or the other "Dumbass" or ""827892$£" et al?

Or is the point that you didn't think?

I watched a program last night where they were talking about two potential earth like planets that were very close to each other and if I recall it would only take 12 days to travel between them.
Does anyone know the name of these bodies?

By Ragtag Media (not verified) on 21 Jul 2015 #permalink

Given you don't even know what the name of the programme is, how the hell do you expect anyone else to know what the hell you saw and what they said?

A google search shows naff all, so I would guess the names are "Boomhole"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHp9Cakv2Fg

and "Urektum"

http://futurama.wikia.com/wiki/

Feel free to explore them for 12 days.

*NOTE* Puritanism strikes again.

FFS, ethan, pick one of the several. your choice.

I would add another potential thought to the Fermi paradox. A physical mission to a planet in another stellar system is a very great undertaking. No civilization presumably would just go randomly about the galaxy in an interstellar ship looking to see whether or not life exists in a system. A destination for such a mission would have to be determined ahead of time upon receipt of a signal from the system that would confirm the presence of intelligent life.

Of course, that's presuming that an alien species would actually want to make contact with another intelligent species. The historical examples of some human nations, such as China and Japan, which had intentionally isolated themselves from the rest of the world, could lead one to question the notion that an alien species would actually want to make contact. However, let's assume that our hypothetical species would actually want to make contact.

The question then is, how would they detect a signal? The radio waves escaping into space from the earth are certainly not an intentional attempt to contact another intelligent species. They are weak to the point where, unless the alien race is located in a stellar system very close by, it would be difficult for another species to detect them. We are engaged in SETI, the SEARCH for extraterrestrial life. Why are we not engaged in the activity of intentionally broadcasting a signal out there for another species to receive? Why are we only listening, but not talking?

There are several possible answers to this. Likely the technology does not exist to broadcast a strong enough signal in all directions. To get a strong enough signal, it's probably necessary to send a unidirectional signal. If that's the case, which direction do we chose in the absence of any information about where an alien race might be located? Also, when listening for a signal, we know immediately if we've succeeded. When broadcasting, we have to wait potentially hundreds or even thousands of years for the signal to reach its target and a return signal to reach us. Human nature being what it is, we want to find out NOW, not in thousands of years from now.

Perhaps some of these factors are at work among hypothetical alien races and are preventing them from sending us signals much as we are not sending signals to them. Perhaps there are no alien races; we certainly don't have enough data to conclude that there are. Of course, we often forget that we are fundamentally unable to conceive of the psychology of a hypothetical alien intelligence. Perhaps they are actually out there, but haven't contacted us for some reason that is completely unconceivable to us.

In any case, Fermi's paradox is a weak argument against the existence of alien intelligence. Keep in mind, Fermi proposed it during the height of Cold War tensions between the Soviets and Americans. It was highly conceivable to Fermi, and many rational thinkers during the time, that human society might at any given time be completely obliterated by nuclear war. Fermi's Paradox was more a comment on that possibility than it is on the existence of aliens. It is not necessarily true that the existence of nuclear weapons must eventually lead to the destruction of a technological society (it hasn't happened to us so far, so that is at least encouraging to some degree). As I said above, even if humans developed nuclear weapons, an alien psychology is likely to be completely incomprehensible to us. Why would another intelligent race necessarily use it's discovery of nuclear energy to produce potentially planet-destroying weapons? I think it's quite presumptuous of us to assume that such a society must do so simply because we did.

"Why are we not engaged in the activity of intentionally broadcasting a signal out there for another species to receive? Why are we only listening, but not talking? "

We did. Sending a message to M13 via the Arecibo radio telescope,

Our system is much brighter than it ought to be without us in the UHF/VHF et al band because of our transmission carriers for our TV broadcasts.

However, that is VERY recent and as we get smarter with our technology and parsimonious with our power usage, our brightness in unintended emissions is dropping.

I am still at a loss what this has to do with the Nephilim, though...

Wow,

Thanks, I was unaware of the message to M13 from Arecibo. I stand corrected. Like you, I still have no clue what Nephilim has to do with anything.

ST,

"And you know that because no such aliens are mentioned in your mythological texts, right?"

That looked like a question to me at first glance thus the reference to The Nephilim.
However, on second look and according to Wowzer's nature it was probably a sardonic remark.

By Ragtag Media (not verified) on 22 Jul 2015 #permalink

"That looked like a question to me at first glance thus the reference to The Nephilim."

Then why did you reference the Nephelim? Still no logical connection between "your mythological texts", "aliens" and "Nephilim".

Nor why it would be necessary to read about them in response to my #3.

Or is this your attempt to backpedal from your asshat post #4? IOW your post was worthless and contentless that has no connection to anything in #3.

BS, I was providing you with a starting point for a perceived "alien" connection with in the historical Judaeo/Christian readings. Just as with the "Watchers" (though not official accepted biblical) ect..
Biblical aliens are plenty, It's just how you ascribe their existence wither it be from outer space, fairytale land or demonic from another dimension.

By Ragtag Media (not verified) on 22 Jul 2015 #permalink

“What are your thoughts regarding Enrico Fermi’s paradox?”

Mine.

Are you sure?

By Ragtag Media (not verified) on 22 Jul 2015 #permalink

One more: Dodo.
Nope!!! The Dodo is alive and well posting incessantly it's vitriol on starts with a bang. To make itself feel relevant.

By Ragtag Media (not verified) on 22 Jul 2015 #permalink

"BS, I was providing you with a starting point for a perceived “alien” connection"

Except there is none with Nephilim. Not even you could explain one, either. Yet you hold two opposing claims without qualm because you're an ignorant moron.

"Biblical aliens are plenty"

No they aren't. Not one is in there.

"Are you sure?"

Yes.

"The Dodo is alive and well posting incessantly"

Being dead and a bird and without typing skills I guess your mythology redoes the Dodo into some sort of "BirdMan", right? I bet the bibble you read is all about this Human-Dodo "superhero", right? Right next to all those aliens...

Of course, you post incessantly, don't you Raggie. Are you saying you;re the last of the Dodo?

the article states that those galaxies were 13bn ly away in the moment the light was emitted and that the light took 13bn years to reach us. but the light is red-shifted, which accounts for expansion, and that those galaxies are now 30bn ly away.

so, if i get this statement right, 13bn years ago, some galaxy 13bn ly away, emitted this light which reach us just about now. then, the universe re-started inflation.

see the problem?

°) if there was no inflation for 13bn years so the light 13bn ly away could reach us, there should be no red-shift

or

°) they have no damn clue about the really big distances

or

°) something else causes the redshift and they really have to come with something better than inflation to account for it

By Mojo Jojo (not verified) on 23 Jul 2015 #permalink

I posted my response in the dump thread.

By Ragtag Media (not verified) on 23 Jul 2015 #permalink

Well done. Have a bikkit.

So will you please accept with me that god related off topic shit goes off to that dump thread? I won't post responses to your godbothering stuff elsewhere because you won't be posting your godbothering stuff where it's OT.

This, though, is merely between the two of us. If other godbotherers decide to post their mythological bullshit on threads which were neither the dump thread nor about god or mythology or similarly on topic, I will be replying to THEM on that thread.

Deal?

What is the actual definition of a "God-botherer"?
That seems to be the caveat here that the faithless use to move the goal post on those of faith.
I see no harm/foul when a person of faith reads an article and simply post "God is so awesome in his creation, Thanks Ethan for the wonderful story", Just as if the secular humanist post:
" Amazing how lucky we are the universe happened to evolve in such a way we get the chance to experience it and regulate ourselves to take care of it. Thanks Ethan for another great story.
I find no "bothering" of either camp in said scenarios, no real in your face proselytizing going on there that one should feel put upon.

Now if someone want's to harp on and on from either camp then sure the dump thread provides the opportunity.

Example: "God made everything and I can't believe you fools are so blind, please go here and read and go here and see this and that"
Then Dump Button, just as: "I just think there should be more taxes collected from the populace so that we can build this or build that for our cause and regulate people and they pollute and blah,blah, blah,,"
Then The Dump Thread as well.
"Bothering" can have many faces, perhaps it also requires looking into one's self to realize that one has more power than one realizes how much a botherer really bothers.

By Ragtag Media (not verified) on 24 Jul 2015 #permalink

"What is the actual definition of a “God-botherer”?"

Go look it up. For people who aren't undergoing mental masturbation like yourself, this is what they'd do, rather than JAQ off like you.

"I see no harm/foul when a person of faith reads an article and simply post “God is so awesome in his creation, "

That;s because you're a godbotherer.

I, meanwhile, see no harm/foul when a moronic braindead knuckledragger is told straight that their ridiculous fiction of religion is a psychotic hate filled death cult pretending to be nice.

"I find no “bothering” of either camp in said scenarios,"

That's fine, then, I can continue to tell you to your face that your ridiculous posting giving credit to a fictional mass murdering deity with absolutely no redeeming features whatsoever is not bothering anyone.

Brilliant.

So I can go ahead and ignore your whining about how mean or hateful I am, because I see no bothering being done.

"see the problem?

°) if there was no inflation for 13bn years so the light 13bn ly away could reach us, there should be no red-shift"

Yes, I see the problem: your claim that there was no inflation.

Conditional predicate "if".

"the article states that those galaxies were 13bn ly away in the moment the light was emitted and that the light took 13bn years to reach us. but the light is red-shifted, which accounts for expansion, and that those galaxies are now 30bn ly away."

Yes, and the wavelengths that spanned 13 bn ly have stretched to span 30 billion light years. A shift of the wavelength to a longer distance. Which for visible light is a shift to (and beyond) the red.

A red shift.

Or redshift.

"Go look it up. For people who aren’t undergoing mental masturbation like yourself, this is what they’d do, rather than JAQ off like you."

Hmm, Insult me for your response is all I need to know.

I did, and it's a term/label that weak minded ideologue's collectively gather around to make themselves feel superior towards/ over a group of people that they themselves have had personal rebellious or contentious issues with (Spiritually, they are fuck head rebellious twits against God).
Such as your pathetic little self.
You parade around this forum as if you are the gate keeper as to what people can "THINK" Or "SAY", agree with or disagree with.
Your nothing more that a pathetic simpleton wrapped up in your own little self worth world of humanistic self absorbed nihilism, trying to give your sad pathetic life meaning by condescending others; which in turn you delude your own self as towards your own importance in life.
Hate to break it to ya (actually not) but your no better than anyone else and in fact your worse because you lack decency, couth and simple social cordial decorum which makes you more of the animal world than that of mankind.
That being said I hardly see how you could hang your hat on darwin and evolution seeings as how you are still only at a wolves decorum.
OH!, And as far as your "Deal"
FUCK OFF, I don't make deals with the DEVIL (Bitch!!).

By Ragtag Media (not verified) on 26 Jul 2015 #permalink

"Hmm, Insult me for your response is all I need to know."

Hmmm. Illegible grammar in your claim (plus persecution complex) tells me all I need to know.

Leaping to conclusion is what you're doing, dipstick, and when your conclusion is based on what you maintain is a leaping conclusion to your JAQing off makes it ironic.

Oh, and did you forget to use your pen name, raggie? Or is this your real name? Or merely another cover?

Or were you just confused. Again.

Your definition seems self selected, raggie.

However, the definition you gave does seem to give me the power to decide who is a godbotherer, so if you're happy with your definition of godbotherer, then we're good to go:

You, raggie, are a godbotherer.

"FUCK OFF, I don’t make deals with the DEVIL (Bitch!!)."

I'm GOD. So no heaven for YOU, worm!

Hmmm, not much progress here .....

Yeah, there was an avenue for progress here, but raggie just went full retard and screamed his hate out.

He certainly hates his god.

I'm disappoint.

PJ, I have had an extraordinary run as of late shorting Brent North Sea Crude, (and other personal blessings) so I am feeling a bit gracious.
Perhaps if "Raskolnikov" was to show some humility and humble himself, I may entertain a probationary period.

However, the little rodents incessant blasphemy needs to be corralled otherwise he risk the patience of he who is greater than us and I have no control over that.

"There is no respect for others without humility in one's self."
Henri Frederic Amiel

By Ragtag Media (not verified) on 27 Jul 2015 #permalink

Well, you don't need to put a blowtorch underneath the wood to keep the furnace burning .....

A quote from Hitchhikers Guide

"Groop, I implore thee, my foonting turling dromes,
And hooptiously drangle me,
With crinkly bindlewurdles,
Or else I shall rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon,
See if I don't. "

:)

"However, the little rodents incessant blasphemy"

Hey, I cannot take my own name in vane, you idiot!

Oh, and yes, I am also a rodent: I am in everything.

I am god.

You can thank me later.

"Or else I shall rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon,"

My gobblewarts are like a shield of steel! Your blurglecruncheon cannot harm me!

:-)