Crisler and his boyz go all classy

Dude, you've been accused of being a child molester on the Internet! That means you're famous!

"Someone told me he thinks..."

WTF? Is this high school? "Jenny told me that Sandra told her that Adam said that he saw Peter out behind the bleachers with Joey." Oh well, that's certainly solid evidence. Call the cops!

Un-friggin-believable.

I'd run this by a lawyer (secretly) for a possible smackdown. #9 in this list (http://greatersurbiton.wordpress.com/2010/01/05/ten-things-id-like-to-s…) provides a good argument why.

"The AllthingsMale ARMY mobilizes quickly and decisively."

What are they gonna do? Pose you to death?

And someone told me he thinks PalMD is a child molestor. That is why he does not post his true name. A cursory look at what he has chosen to publish shows him to be a man of very low character, certainly capable of anything. Now, should we set up a blog to crucify him?

Yawn. Can't these idiots think of a more original smear than accusing people they don't like of pedophilia? John freakin' Best tries to smear me with pedophilia accusations, and you know how despicably nuts he is. Dr. Crisler has instantly fallen to John Best territory.

Pathetic.

I overheard a mention that John Crisler was thrown off of www.lpsg.org

He corners them in the playground and shows them his hormone starved raisin balls.

Dude, you've been accused of being a child molester on the Internet! That means you're famous!

Indeed!

You haven't truly arrived as a blogger until you have at least a couple of loonies accusing you of being a child molester. Congratulations!

I'm still amazed that you have that picture of yourself up there. You really don't know how to canoe dude. Is that supposed to be an example of your competency in action? LOL!

Zombie Hitler thinks your a child molester. Because child molesters are crappy doctors who libel people. Or something.

Hmm, I think you've been scammed. I was curious as to where this pissing match was going to go so I'm subscribed to the treads over on Dr. Crislers forum and I've never seen the child molester post you've quoted.

They uncovered your real name? It was gonna happen, there are no more secrets. Dr. Crisler is bold enough to put his name and email address out there and let his patients dig into his opinions all they like, why don't you want to do the same?

The comment about you being the Peter that they knew was referencing another doctor blogging about you at http://www.evolutionnews.org/2009/01/what_is_palmd_ashamed_of.html

He was probably talking about this quote from that post: "Despite their claim to represent mainstream science, many Darwinian fundamentalists like PalMD are ill-tempered bigots who are loathe to have their opinions publicly associated with their names. For obvious reasons."

Sue Dr. Crisler for libel! :D

PalMD,

I order you to change your blog name name to Dr. Molesto Raisinballs McFattypants.

Do this now.

Before they flex at you.

From what we can tell, this PalMD d00d, who clearly can't canoe, instead turns to other hobbies such as demonizing people he knows nothing about.

The questions I have include:

1. Where does he find the time to demonize strangers?

2. Is it a kind of projection of his own fantasy? If not, can anyone explain why he seems so obsessed with trying to enforce his pseudo-scientific scientism on his fellow doctors?

3. Does he believe he's serving some "public good"? If so, which?

4. Why doesn't he learn how to canoe before putting a picture of himself floundering in one (or is he transporting bodies?)

CGuy: PalMD's real name is about as secret as Orac's. He post at Science Based Medicine under his full name and even his podcast (which he posts here) has his full name. If they think it's some great bit of investigation they've done they're really dumb.

Here's a theory: PalMD's estrogens are quite high and his testosterone is very low; and he's a cranky bitch who can't canoe to save his life.

So, out of a kind of wild resentment he lashes out at real men.

Nice projection, Micawber.

Well, you haven't denied molesting children, right? Or having dead bodies in that canoe?

Katherine has a strange syndrome: every time she hears something reasonable she has an inexplicable urge the person of projection. Maybe she's projecting the projection onto everyone else? Weird. That. *shrugs*

Back to the canoe guy.

"Well, you haven't denied molesting children, right? Or having dead bodies in that canoe?"

Exactly. That's what I've been thinking too. Probably has piles of them in his backyard.

Hmm, if I didn't know better, I'd say CPP and Orac are deliberately undermining your case for libel, since I think it depends on some degree on whether anyone believes the libel. Micawber and Anon4this, on the other hand, are clearly aiding your case, should you happen to swing the litigious way. Just sayin'.

I hate the canoe-ignorance out there:
http://scienceblogs.com/whitecoatunderground/2009/07/no_im_not_tipping…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ9MV0drMbA&feature=related

Just for the record: I can think of many other plausible reasons why said canoe is listing so. It may just be that the d00d can't canoe to save his life. I fully stand by that accusation. And I in no way imply that he is canoeing with a pile of dead bodies lolling about in the hull.

Sorry PalMD - I've been canoeing longer than you have (eagle scout; canoed to school until I was 13) and I can say with some authority that your form is simply atrocious. To claim that you know what you're doing because you taught a class or two is risible. From the photo I'm looking at, you're doing just about everything wrong. But carry on anyway as you were! I don't want to stand in the way of blithe ignorance. I still get to make fun of you though. LOL!

@23

Sorry PalMD - I've been canoeing longer than you have (eagle scout; canoed to school until I was 13) and I can say with some authority that your form is simply atrocious.

Well, I'm an Eagle (tut, tut, you didn't capitalize it, so you must be a fraud) and I got the John Phillip Sousa Band Award in Jr. High. I say that you're completely wrong about the canoeing, Micawber. Clearly I have the superior credentials, so you can just leave off now.

@24

LOL - yes, it's well known that expert canoers learned how to handle a canoe by stomping around in faux military suits, while the real men were actually playing a contact sport on the field.

More proof to add to my arsenal that you can't reach morons with rational argument.

Also, why does everybody care so fucking much about emotions? The universe doesn't care about your emotions.

Micawber @16:

Here's a theory: PalMD's estrogens are quite high and his testosterone is very low; and he's a cranky bitch who can't canoe to save his life.

So, out of a kind of wild resentment he lashes out at real men.

Is misogyny the apex of your talents in framing a reasoned argument, or do you have something even creepier in your verbal arsenal?

So, out of a kind of wild resentment he lashes out at real men. in comment 27 was meant to be italicized, as that was also from Master Debater Micawber.

So, Micawber has just confirmed he has no clue about most things, including canoeing (he probably doesn't know there are several types of canoeing, including racing canoes that are very tricky to even sit in, or actually kneel in).

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not only do you get the accusation of childmolester, you also get accusations of being inept in a canoe...By some fucking misogynist asshat, who apparently is completely unfamiliar with canoes.

Or canoes, for that matter? Are they so bereft of argument they can only say "d00d, your canoing sux!" (I've canoed myself. There is more than one legitimate way to do it. Spend a few weeks in the BWCAW sometime.)

The outing is every bit as hilarious as when Orac gets outed. They act as if it's some major secret which they have breached with their vast cunning. Again, in lieu of an actual argument.

@Micawber

I come from Colorado and worked on the Arkansas river for a summer. PalMd's form looks fine to me, I'm not an expert, but I know that is how the professionals looked.

"So, out of a kind of wild resentment he lashes out at real men." This comment, from the type of "real men" who need testosterone supplements?

@26: LOL! Who exactly are you talking to? Just for the record: nobody hear cares or knows what on earth you're talking about about.

@27: Micawber senses that Dr. Free-ride is quite the S.N.A.G*

@29: Micawber kneels only before the Blessed Sacrament. He kneels before no man; not in a canoe or anywhere else.

* "sensitive new age guy"**

**oops, I did it again, didn't I? Uh, oh. Assumed you were a man. I'm going to hell for committing the deadly sin of misogyny. Let's hope that G*d has more of a sense of humour than Dr. Free-Ride.***

*** Speaking of creepy, doesn't "Dr. Free-ride" sounds like a creepy sexual position?

Micawber @34:
LOL! Who exactly are you talking to? Just for the record: nobody hear cares or knows what on earth you're talking about about.

Whereas everyone "hear" totally follows your line of argument and takes it quite seriously?

Dude, there are situations where talking to oneself is the only good way to have an intelligent conversation, but I'm afraid you might not have the chops for it.

@34: If you had clicked one link, you wouldn't have had to guess at Dr. Free-Ride's gender. So now we know you're lazy as well as illogical.

@35

Apparently, yes, you do follow what I'm saying.

I love how you focus on the mis-spell. Way to go genius.

"Dude, there are situations where talking to oneself is the only good way to have an intelligent conversation, but I'm afraid you might not have the chops for it."

No, the truth is I don't have the narcissism for it; I find most people around me far more intelligent. That's the difference between me and you: you actually think you're interesting enough to converse with yourself.

@36 - O, lazy. Definitely lazy. Never said otherwise.

Micawber:

@29: Micawber kneels only before the Blessed Sacrament. He kneels before no man; not in a canoe or anywhere else.

Whatever, who cares? It does confirm you know diddly squat about canoeing.

@39

Micawber says that thou hast confirmed nothing but thine own lack of merry wit.

wow, just wow... such poor quality trolling from the steroid site. Its a wonder these folks know how to work the keys on their computers.

It would be something if they could at least manage to not make themselves look like total idiots.

Perhaps while you are kneeling you should ask forgiveness for being a liar, an idiot, a misogynist, and a braggart, and then ask for guidance on how to function in society.

@41: wow, could you be anymore, like wow, just wow, like, could you be anymore articulate? /sarc

@42: Chris, you certainly know how to take the giggle out of being merry, don't you? Okay, when next I kneel I promise to ask forgiveness and all those other things. And, I actually mean that. I see myself as a deeply flawed and sinful person. That's the truth.

Face it, we are a tough crowd and you are not funny.

@44 - Chris, your wit is exceedingly dull. Whom do you think "we" is? LOL? Okay, let's assume you're part of the crowd here (nothing to brag about...LOL); so far I haven't come up against anyone who has very much to say, much less the wit to express it in. (Maybe by "tough" you mean thick-skulled? LOL!) You, sir, are obviously not the sharpest knife in the kitchen. Read our little exchange again and you'll see why.

Hang around and you will get to see there are familiar names. Many who have the analytical and scientific acumen that folks like you cannot even imagine.

You lied. You said PalMD should learn how to canoe, and then your comments showed you had no clue about canoeing. I don't find liars funny or witty.

By the way, I am not a "sir." Though, to be fair, not only do I hate my full given name I find it advantageous to use the neuter nickname. Especially after graduating and starting work as an aerospace engineer in the early 1980s. In my experience, you are an amateur in the art of masculine idiocy.

I don't think Dr.Pal needs my defense, but I do feel compelled to point out, Mr. Micawber, that you are neither as entertaining nor as honest as your literary namesake.

"folks like you" haha! You have no idea who I am, you adorable little clown you. Forget me though: I recognize extreme intelligence when I'm around it; I am personal friends with some of the smartest people of our time; for example, I was just in hiking in the White Mountains with a friend of mine, one of the founders of string theory @ Harvard. Now, HE is extraordinary. Maybe there are people like that here; but by the light of what I've read so far, I don't think so.

"you lied" - LOL! no I didn't; please point out where I lied about anything. You have yet to do so. Is this evidence of the legendary "analytical acumen" here? LOL! NO, the canoeing stuff I'm afraid is true. Sorry.

I like calling you "sir" because you're a bit of a stuff shirt and a clod. So there.

I would have pegged you as an engineer; often very smart people; but dreadfully dull.

"In my experience, you are an amateur in the art of masculine idiocy."

What? You mean I should get better at being so? Sort of like turning pro, or something? LOL! You engineers are always so fun to chat with a parties. So witty and clever!

Harvard? Physicyst? Well damn homes, why didn't you say so earlier? I het your buddies know all about shriveled pecans and what to do about that. Our mistake, carry on Doc Neckcords.

You know, outing someone who made his name publicly known quite some time ago is not exactly an accomplishment.

OK, which one of you is Micawber? Mark? Chris? Or has Dr. David G. finally cracked?

This is some hilarious shit: micro-dick 'roid ragers who can't even find their own shriveled balls making fun of someone for his canoeing form.

"folks like you" haha! You have no idea who I am, you adorable little clown you.

Of course we do, you misogynist fucking asshat. The little turds you have been dropping for hour are plenty of evidence of your less than halfwit, juvenile stupidity. Face it child, you are so far out of your depth here, your canoe is sitting on the bottom of Lake Superior.

Rather than add to the pathetic idiotocracy above,I will instead merely point out that the above blather has irrefutably disproven Darwinian evolution by revealing humanity to have reverse evolved to the level of drivel, a missing link conveniently left missing. In other words, shriveled raisen pecans, vaccuum cranium, and wet noodle beceps defines a child molesting canoeist blogger with a habit of defaming strangers for no reason whatsover. Pass the haldol please, this blog is over due for a big dose.

How do they know it was a child and not just a midget on steroids?

I kind of wonder why they don't just go one step further and accuse every pseudonymous blogger of being a pedophile.

Because that's the logically consistent thing for them to do.

But no, they just say PalMD is because they don't like criticism. Oh, and they somehow think his canoeing skills are relevant.

I think the testosterone issues are affecting their brains.

Has anyone else noted that the intellectual acumen of the trolling has gone down since the Crisler invasion? Who would have thought to be missing such brainiacs as Common Sue, or cooler?

I agree, DuWayne. I don't think most of the other trolls, as nutbaggy as they are, have flown quite as much in the face of rational argument as these defectively-gonaded dudes.

Not even some of the fundies are quite this bad.

Looking at the literature on testosterone and cognition, I see low testosterone causes mood disorders, most frequently depression, and aggression (contrary to popular thought). In addition, I would bet a great many of these men have issues with their own bodies and are not far from being totally bodily dysmorphic or obsessed with their own building of muscle, unaware that 'real men' are not muscle-bound eejits but mature-minded, compassionate, intelligent, wise individuals, no matter how much muscle they have. Besides, there is nothing less sexy than a dumbass.

Something tells me in many ways we've touched a nerve on these idiots. I suggest we keep touching it.

@Katharine

'real men' are not muscle-bound eejits but mature-minded, compassionate, intelligent, wise individuals, no matter how much muscle they have. Besides, there is nothing less sexy than a dumbass.

I couldn't agree more! Might I add, real men don't get a kick out of insulting people who call them out on their idiocy. These meat heads who have decided to attack PalMd, who fights for rational thinking and science-based medicine, are decidedly unattractive IMHO. And I don't even have to see them to know that.

Katherine and Du-Wayne are really a cross-dressing guys who tried but failed at pedophilia, right? Here are the rules of this blog:

Rule number one: Sh_t on the canoeist pedophile scumbag blogger at the upper left, called anonymous PAL MD.

Rule number two Sh_t on the guy Pal MD is Sh_tting on.

Rule number three, go take your own giant Sh_t.

Rule number four, if rules 1-3 fail, then Eat Sh__T.

Rule number five, no time gotta go Sh_t.

...Colonic_Contents, by your logic you can blame Dr.T for being a pedophile too. And yourself.

@Colonic Contents

Wow, your right! Our assessment of your kind is all wrong. You really are just sensitive puppydog types. How very sexy your comment is. Poetry really.

I am sure Dr. Crisler is so very proud! You are living proof he is a quack and his 'treatment' causes...lets just say interesting neurological side-effects (i.e. cranium in rectum syndrome).

I'm not even sure I want to think of these people as humans anymore. Have we started speciating?

Boy has this gotten bizarre.

Kristen, Dr. Crisler is just as stupid; he supported the idiots' absurd notion that Pal was a pedophile at all.

I believe there is an established protocol for dealing with enraged guests from the Allthingsmale army.

Follow my lead.
.
.
.
.
"Candy-gram for Mongo."
.
.
.
RUN!!!

If the sad little clown in the boat isn't a pedophile, will someone please tell my why else his toy canoe is listing so? Geez, I come here for answers - but none are forthcoming.

@Katharine

I am sure he is (as stupid). It is just hard to believe that, outside of high-school, there are still 'men' who act like this.

Regarding calling Pal a pedophile, that is incredibly reprehensible! It is hard for me to wrap my head around that. Most of the time I have respect for anyone who has gone through the training and study to carry the Doctor label. But any vestige of respect I may have given this Mr. Crisler has turned to complete contempt.

Pal here argues for reason, he deserves respect. He has shown himself to be far above Mr. Crisler and his ilk. The only thing of which these commentators and their dear leader have convinced me, is that my deep respect for Pal (and other science bloggers) has not been misplaced.

Settle down Micawaber. Don't make me put sugar in your Cardiofuel.

Hey look! Luggage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2ZeIoLz8FE

@Prometheus

I was just sitting here, enjoying my coffee, minding my business. And you had to go and make me spit coffee all over my laptop.

Thanks alot, now I need to get the Windex.

In all seriousness, great link, very appropriate to the conversation.

Thanks Prometheus. That's some sturdy luggage there. Oh, no - I get it! You're suggesting that the sad clown is actually a big gorilla "playing around" with his "emotional luggage." Hah, that's clever! O, you're so naughty!

*yawn* I caught the sad clown and friend on my phone vid ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chwDspg5Y_Y

Krstin, you love men who "act like this" - that's why you can't take your eyes away from the screen. Are you as adorable, as as feisty and intelligent, as you seem?

"I am personal friends with some of the smartest people of our time; for example, I was just in hiking in the White Mountains with a friend of mine, one of the founders of string theory @ Harvard. Now, HE is extraordinary."

Did you roast him or just tenderize him with your club?

Was he stringy?

@74 - I'm afraid I reduced the poor fellow to a pile of steaming poop. Just doing my part for science.

@Micawber

I wait tables, and I can see men like you from a mile away. Keep touching yourself, you have no chance with an adorable, feisty, intelligent woman. Although I am sure you would delude yourself and leave a big tip ;), they all do.

I still can't figure how a doctor who spouts off about being world-famous can have such a shitty website with 2nd grade graphics and hyperlink dysfunctionality as well as spelling errors (such as his repeated "reccomendations" at cardiofuel). Judging from the level of intellect of the trolling here, these people appear to be compensating for something and it may not just be lack of testosterone.

One theory is that the doctor and his minions are just a bunch of neuronally-challenged oafs whose only validation in life comes from the reacharound circlejerk they've got going.

Just take a look at his long-standing war with Harvard and MIT graduate Dr. Michael Scally. That's a name certain to send the good doctor into fits.

Ahhh, Kirsten. Let me clear up a few things for you.

1. If you really can "see men like [me]" a mile away, it must be that you're on the look-out for us. We make better eye candy than the low-t geeks on this board; and we're much more merry and fun.

2. I have no doubt that many men leave you huge "tips" - which, no doubt, you accept gladly and greedily, because you desperately them, I'm sure. So, we're all-too glad to oblige! :)

3. My girlfriend (MIT & Warton grad) is a hedge fund manager; and she's absolutely gorgeous. Sorry I'm not available.

@ neurospunk

LOL! Do you realize, sir, who "Dr." Mike Scally is? He's a total joke. He's one of the biggest scam artists in medicine now; look him up.

Actually, if our sad clown the canoeist likes to takes on charlatans, "Dr." Mikey would be an excellent target.

Please look into him. I'm actually quite serious. Prepare to be floored by all sorts of things.

Way to stay classy, Crisler. Way to stay classy.

At first I thought the new troll was a parody.

Damn you internet. Damn you to hell.

Sorry I'm not available

What a shame.

I am not greedy, I take care of my children. I don't use my education because I like to be home for them during the day (and my autistic son needs me). I don't have a glamorous job, true, so go ahead and look down on me; it just shows your shallowness.

Krstin, you love men who "act like this" - that's why you can't take your eyes away from the screen. Are you as adorable, as as feisty and intelligent, as you seem?

Perhaps my comment was juvenile, but I just had to answer your misogynistic comments you no doubt pulled out of your ass.

Micawber - first, it's "neurospasm." Second, your girlfriend (in your dreams, I'm sure) went to "Wharton." Are you really this illiterate or do you just like showing your ignorance?

Kirsten, I don't think yer greedy. I'm sure you're a very good & smart person; and no doubt any man would be blessed to be standing at your side. I wish you well bringing up your children; it's a very tough thing to do. Especially given your son's autism. I will pray for your family; and I really mean that. Sometimes the fun and games get out of hand; that's all. Peace.

@ neurospunk (as you've noted, I have a spelling problem; actually, my apartment is on the cold side this morning and me fingers ain't working well...LOL!)

No, my lovely woman is just as described. She's real flesh and blood. And I love her dearly. I count myself as one of the luckiest men on earth. Truth be told.

I count myself as one of the luckiest men on earth. Truth be told.

Oh, I believe you. Assuming she's real, you are the luckiest man alive, and she's the unluckiest woman.

Feel free to insult my canoeing skills now. In spite of being Canadian I'm not very good with a paddle.

See? Even when I'm being sweet, you still want a wee bit of my naughty badness back.

Okay, now if you'll please let me know what this adjective "Canadian" is, I can commence the insults.

To what does this word refer?

Is it an attribute that normally correlates with canoeing?

I TAKE CAREEEE MY KIDS!

Stop the press people. Kristin is drop-dead gorgeous. Really. And an amazingly talented singer as well. Very cool that.

I have an abiding love & respect for artists of the human voice; my parents dragged me to the MET every month growing up; opera has always been part of my life. My nephews (who live in Paris) are trained in voice by the head of one of the top "Cathedral Choirs" in London; they have voices of angels I tell you.

So, you see Kristin? We can be friends, as we have a great deal more in common than you might think.

"Speaking of creepy, doesn't "Dr. Free-ride" sounds like a creepy sexual position? "
Why would a sexual position be creepy?
I can see a few select cases of creepy participants, but the *position*????

"Feel free to insult my canoeing skills now. In spite of being Canadian I'm not very good with a paddle."
Oh. I won't. Go There. *heroic effort*

LEAVE BRITNEY...UMM....PALMD ALONE!!!

Regarding Micawber, are wild mood swings a complication of steroid abuse. He doesn't seem very stable.

I'm a singer now? Wow, even I didn't know.

@90: I don't know Becca; I think some positions can be down right creepy. But let's not go there. However, methinks the thing about the paddle does have some mileage in it.

@91: that's "Pay Pal" to you sir.

"Just take a look at his long-standing war with Harvard and MIT graduate Dr. Michael Scally. That's a name certain to send the good doctor into fits."

You mean the guy who lost his license to practice and now openly does internet steroid consultations to total strangers?

It's even advertised in his signature.

What's his #1 complaint about dr crisler?

That he uses therapeutic doses of hormones as described in the medical literature. For instance he says 250IU of HCG is a "homeopathic" dose, even though the literature shows higher than that has no useful effect (and is possibly harmful) and recommends publicly people take 2500, 5000 IU, etc.

Now _that_ guy is an "internet doctor" if there ever was such a thing, and he's still practicing after his license was revoked with guys who are solely on supraphysiological doses illegal black market drugs!

@92: damnit Kirstin, I mistook you for hottie KristinMH @ 86. Oh well. LOL!!! Our collective loss. Yes, I'm a schizophrene too.

Oh, forgive me, there is another Kristin. Please note the difference in spelling, so I can understand with whom you are speaking.

Obvious troll is obvious.

There should be a "do not feed the troll" sign up somewhere. Honestly, between the expert canoeing skills, hot girlfriend, and all the smart people he knows (really not impressed with credential dropping btw) he should really have more to do than post 26 fucking posts! Don't you have a job, dude? Get some of these "smartest people of our time" (how the hell would you know anyway?) or "real men" or whatever to help you out a find one - it's too bad BALCO has shut down. Oh, and cut back on the 'roids son, they're messing with your head.

Kristin, so what is this thing you speak of? "Canadian"?

Tom, do you have anything interesting or funny to say? Stop boring us. And stop fantasizing about me demo-ing my amazing paddling skills to my hot girlfriend. Pig.

@98 - hey dickhead, I think you meant KristinMH! Stupid roid head.

Oddly enough I am typing from a canoe right now.

I, and I am certain I am not alone in this, would like to hear a great deal more about canoes please.

"I count myself as one of the luckiest men on earth."

If she is not remotely curious as to why her paramour spends an inordinate amount of time skipping through the woods after objects of his hero worship and surfing on sites with names like muscleboards.com and allthingsmale.com then ....well....

I'm not sure 'lucky' is the right word for it.

Have fun with your angelic Parisian nephews at the opera Spartacus.

P.S. Canoe.

See Tom, at least Prometheus is funny. LOL!

Hey Prometheus, that is odd regarding your happening to be in a canoe now; I happen to be writing from a dingy drifting somewhere in the North Atlantic. Correction: it's "prancing," not "skipping." Micawber never skips.

"Micawber never skips."

You do however blow.

Which could come in handy since I'm betting your girlfriend has a sticker over the valve that says "not a flotation device".

re: "not a flotation device" - well, they legally have to say that; but you know how that sort of thing is; over-zealous regulators and all.

Truth is, in a pinch she works like a charm. Wouldn't leave harbor without her by my side.

Just in case you need some action in that leaky, tippy canoe of yours, I'll send her your way.

Ohhhh! Struck a nerve, huh? Pig? Are middle school insults common in the intelligent circles you run in? Come on, I don't give a damn about your girlfriend, no one hear does. You offered that one up for ... actually I have no clue why. Or your canoe demoing (people do that? Odd relationship.)

Intelligent stuff to say? No. Funny? Doubt that too. But at least I'm not trolling.

Troll.

Stop the Presses People! Here the very best that boring old Tom can say for himself: "At least I'm not trolling."

LOL!!!

typo: no one here does.

Re:102 You're right, that was kind of funny. Now, no more text speak; LOL, are you a moody teenager? Now I'm ROTFL, BTW, waiting for you to GTFO. OMG!

Okay Tom - that's not bad. It's KIND of funny I guess. At least it's a start. Seriously, keep this up and you'll be swinging with the big boys in no time. I say, the more wit the merrier!

I'll take that as a compliment. I think...

Tom, of course it is! :)

Now, you see, I've got to go and throw the gauntlet down elsewhere. I'm sure all of you adorable people are going to miss me.

~Micawber

Man, this is one boring circle-jerk.

Less jibber jabber. More canoe references.

We hate you Micawber.

Now haul your boring butt over to notgayoiledupmanmeats.com and tell that chicken shit supplement peddling narcissistic tin god Crisler to appear and answer for the army of drooling blockheaded windowlickers he has spawned.

At least he is unintentionally funny.

@Tom

Obvious troll is obvious.

There should be a "do not feed the troll" sign up somewhere.

I know, I just can't help it sometimes. I haven't been making comments for long. My husband gets so upset (he does internet security), because he is afraid of me giving away personal information (but I digress). I guess I have much to learn about the idiosyncrasies of dealing with trolls.

I couldn't help myself when he made that sexist comment at #73:

Are you as adorable, as (sic) as feisty and intelligent, as you seem?

I get that kind of crap every day, and I don't expect to be spoken to like that on the internet (especially since their are no pictures of me on the web).

I love the anonymity of being myself without assholes thinking with their...well you know.

Mini-Balls Micawber took his ball and ran.

Awwwwwwww.

more canoe references? okay.

why does my wife always talk about some little guy in a canoe?

Ok, which one of you SciBloggers has created this hilarious piece of online performance art? This is f-ing brilliant!

*wipes tear*

Comrade Physioprof wrote: "This is some hilarious shit: micro-dick 'roid ragers who can't even find their own shriveled balls making fun of someone for his canoeing form."

Must be subconscious fear of the 'little man in a boat'.

Oh man thank you Micawber for the entertainment. I laughed so hard at his canoeing shots I cried. I know when I look for a Dr. I always ask about his canoeing expertise as it is the true test of competency Then Prometheus his with the candy gram for mongo bit. I'll be snickering all day. And to PalMD don't listen to the asshats. Us rational readers luv ya!

Dammit!!! Don't tell me the moronathon is over already...Because you know, nothing makes the Crisler look like a legitimate, well respected doctor like completely insubstantial responses that in parts accuse Pal of being a pedo and incompetent canoeist.

And here I was getting all excited at being accused of being a cross dressing pedo - I was really hoping to get to cross dressing pedo, who is a lot like Hitler...At least to seeing Pal labeled such.

Let's sweep up some clutter.

Figuring what the hell is going on in the heads of the Crislerites is a worthy topic. Beyond "yer dum" there is some really scary devotion going on here that says a lot about how much power a doctor can exercise over people.

I know I have a lot of former clients I can call up and tell "Hey, kill a guy for me." and they would do it.

These are the well meaning but very very cognitively compromised people who, no matter how elaborately I explain

1. What their problem was.

2. What I did to fix it.

will never be able to understand anything above "He gots a magic lawyer wand".

I believe in the ethical obligation to never never never abuse that professional, or any other power differential for personal gain or for any other reason.

The "get em boys" attitude of Crisler in PalMD's reprint indicates to me that he feeds on the inductive reasoning (not reasoning) of a fan base in fashion that is dangerously opportunistic.

Granted the internet is hyperbole central and I am hoping that the conformance to charismatic cult definitions is just a side effect of that hyperbole.....but these guys make me nervous.

Thoughts?

Canoes?

Prometheus, please will you stop boring everyone with that drivel of yours? Most of us have moved on to the next friggin topic. Get with the program. See you there, you lovely little adorable thing.

~David

why does palmd have such a shitty rating on healthgrades.com ?

http://www.healthgrades.com/directory_search/physician/profiles/dr-md-r…

"why does palmd have such a shitty rating on healthgrades.com ?"

Because health grades is open voting and because PalMD offends people who make a living by lying about things.

"If you or a family member have visited Dr. Whoozits, we invite you to complete a patient experience survey to share your opinion.".

Whack jobs have no shame and a bizarre sense of vengeance.

He probably has 500 enraged anti-vaxers hitting that board daily from Huffington Post alone.

Oh yeah baby!!! The moronathon continues!!!

Here's the cluestick against your head jackass, you and your brainless friends - the ones who are incapable of substantive responses, are totally the topic of discussion. That would be the point of this thread, to give you the opportunity to let your inner moron shine. Thank you for being such a willing participant.

Here is another cluestick - no matter how much you might claim that Pal or his readers are crossdressing pedos who can't canoe (hell, even were those the gospel truth) it does nothing to respond to the charges leveled against your good doctor C. He is still an unethical, internet hack, prescribing drugs to people he has never met - not on a limited basis, because there aren't doctors local to the folks he "treats," but because he can make more money by teleprescribing.

So please, do continue to make an ass of yourself and by extension, Crisler. Your juvenile moronathon does far more to discredit Crisler, than Pal's substantive critique probably managed.

@Dazed
Any survey with only nine responses is not worth anything. I also search that website for his town & couldn't find a single other doctor in his specialty with any ratings. I've never heard of healthgrades.com before. Perhaps it's achieved enough saturation in some regions to provide relevant information, but that's clearly not the case for where PalMD lives. (I'll also note that even those 9 people who rated him, he's ranked completely down the middle, not poorly.

Maybe the same reason it still reports a doctors with *revoked* licenses as having high ratings -- online feedback posted at a third-party source is actually a pretty crappy way to judge quality of a doctor.

DuWayne, what you just posted is untrue, covered long ago, in previous threads.

Get the joke of why crisler said "i heard" then inserted a made up rumor, yet?

You just made a rambling post about clubbing people with a cluestick while either lying or saying something completely clueless about a physician.

"He is still an unethical, internet hack, prescribing drugs to people he has never met - not on a limited basis, because there aren't doctors local to the folks he "treats," but because he can make more money by teleprescribing."

all of the above is incorrect and has been discussed already.

You are more than welcome to provide actual evidence that anything I said is untrue. Not some bullshit from the comments threads, but actual evidence. To be clear, you would need to provide evidence that Crisler doesn't actually prescribe medications to people he has never seen and that his assertions of cutting edge grandeur produce results superior to what evidence based medicine teaches MDs to be about endocrinology.

And FYI, saying "I heard" so and so is a pedo, is not a joke and is indicative of the person saying it being a juvenile fucking jackass. Right on a par with comparing them to Hitler.

Re: 113 Kristen

Oh yeah, it's really hard not to respond when they say something dumb. I kind of fell for it too, it happens. Couldn't help it when he hijacked the whole thread with meanderings about canoes and not dealing with anything substantive. I'm fine with opinions other than my own, but when you don't really have any, or don't really give them, that's trolling. To deal with them, never let them see you get fazed.

"You are more than welcome to provide actual evidence that anything I said is untrue. Not some bullshit from the comments threads, but actual evidence. To be clear, you would need to provide evidence that Crisler doesn't actually prescribe medications to people he has never seen ..."

Uh? And you're pretending to be science minded? No, you're making the claim, the burden of proof is on *YOU*. You have a hypothesis, you produce the evidence for it. Do you work for the enquirer or something with this tabloid mentality? Here's my claim: You have antlers on your penis. PROVE ME WRONG. WITH REAL EVIDENCE !@**#($*!

*rolls eyes so hard they blast out of the back of his roided-out raisin-nutted skull*

You're pretending like you give a shit about ethics while making up accusations, that a physician breaks the law and treats patients over the phone who he has not met in person, without evidence, and demanding evidence to counter this non-evidence based claim.

Why do so many of you guys cry ethics in medicine and completely ignore ethics in journalism?

Do you see ghosts too?

I'm just happy that today's crop of trolls is starting to use longer usernames. I was worried I'd have to change mine with all those single letter guys yesterday.
As for the canoe form, anything that doesn't involve a lot of splashing trying to get back into the damn things is good form for me.

I guess all these new guys here don't get it.

I can't speak for everyone here, but I am very open-minded about new treatments. I don't just believe everything I hear (even from PalMd), unless there is evidence, he just seems to be the one who is bringing the 'goods' so to speak.

Personal stories and anecdotes are wonderful, I am truly happy for anyone who has felt better because of what Dr. Crisler has done. But he is going about it the wrong way. If he does the studies and finds the evidence, he will have a legacy that will outlive him. Perhaps he will change how every endocrinologist practices, but we will not take his word for it.

Certainly it is very unprofessional to unleash your attack dogs on a colleague. Publishing his office address and calling him a pedophile, that is just shameful.

Read his own fucking site, he admits to prescribing drugs to people whom he has never actually seen. And I am not pretending that it is illegal to prescribe drugs without actually seeing the patient. I said that excepting a very narrow set of circumstances it is unethical to do so.

Learn to read and learn some manners child, you are embarrassing yourself and others.

Read his own fucking site, he admits to prescribing drugs to people whom he has never actually seen. And I am not pretending that it is illegal to prescribe drugs without actually seeing the patient. I said that excepting a very narrow set of circumstances it is unethical to do so.

Learn to read and learn some manners child, you are embarrassing yourself and others.

I hope you weren't addressing me, were you? I was just trying to make the point that those who comment here are not just mindless followers of PalMd. Bring some rationale into the discussion.

But if anyone else feels so offended by my presence her, they are welcome to tell me. I don't know if I come off childish, or not. But I feel your comment is completely out of line and mean-spirited.

If anyone feels I don't add to the discussions, let me know, I will gladly leave.

Sorry, no Kristen - in my haste I failed to note I was addressing the jackass @130.

Okay, I just get worried because I am not as intelligent as some on these threads. I try to be thoughtful, but know I sometimes come across as less than bright.

Whether or not you are less intelligent than some on these threads, Kristen, you are far more intelligent than a lot of folks on these threads. As far as it goes, I have seen nothing from you that would indicate you are less clever than most anyone else. As it stands, many of us are just assholes who use big words sometimes - not to say that many of us aren't also clever, but don't make the mistake of taking wordy assholes for being any more clever than you.

PalMD - it must have taken them a lot of work to find out who you are. It's not like you give your name on your podcast or anything...oops. Somehow, this really makes the old "Military Intelligence is an oxymoron" thing real - for an "Army" (sorry "ARMY"), they really don't seem that smart.

Actually, the "AllthingsMale ARMY" does sound like a Village People cover band, just sayin'. Lots of greco-roman oiled-up wrestling going on. Maybe Jesus' General needs to know about these folks?

Ah, the innernets!

There is nothing like the innernets lol.

The question to ask is...

Has anything been learned or gained from all of this friction?

Mudslinging on both sides, both forums, my army of internet followers versus yours etc etc.

Who can swear the most and use long words etc, I bet the dictionaries were going full force today.

Oh well, I just thought I would say my pointless bit.

Thanks for reading or glazing.

Innernet madman.

"And FYI, saying "I heard" so and so is a pedo, is not a joke and is indicative of the person saying it being a juvenile fucking jackass. Right on a par with comparing them to Hitler."

Except when talking about Glenn Beck and that girl he didn't rape and murder in '92, right? That's still ok, isn't it?

That "I heard" schtick seems to have gained in popularity recently, or is that just me. I see a lot more of it now - I wonder when someone will take that to court and what would happen.

Canoe? (Is that the new "Goats on fire" - or whatever that was?)

Badger3K - Yeah, and it's not like his pseudonym has his initials in it or anything. /eyeroll

You know, I've just noticed a correlation. Here: Sleazy maleness doctor gets schooled, weirdos arrive and troll away. Science Based Medicine: An admittedly inflammatory post about circumcision is snowed under by 625 comments and counting, including some of the wildest most troll-icious trolling known to man. It's almost like there's some breed of Internet male who is inordinately interested in his gonads. Like you talk about dicks and they just come out of the woodwork.

@duwayne #133

"Read his own fucking site, he admits to prescribing drugs to people whom he has never actually seen. And I am not pretending that it is illegal to prescribe drugs without actually seeing the patient. I said that excepting a very narrow set of circumstances it is unethical to do so.

Learn to read and learn some manners child, you are embarrassing yourself and others."

Where? Where on "his site" does it say this? Evidence?

All of his new patient paperwork, and his receptionist, say you have to see him in person for a 90 minute first appointment, you can do followups to review your labs over the phone if you live in another state, but must see him in person at least once per year regardless.

@141: KristinMH - hah, there you are, my wonderful warbler.

I have a question: where is this circumcision thread? I feel strangely compelled to read and troll there.

Also, NB: there is no such thing as a man being "inordinately interested" in such things because:

1. if a man can't be obsessed with his own genitals, what CAN you be obsessed with?

2. is there anything else worth obsessing over?

3. come to think of it: does anything else it this big ol world really matter more than my genitals? *sigh*

After reviewing this entire thread it appears that Dr Crisler's supporters share two common characteristics:

1. Shriveled, raisin-sized testicles, and
2. An atrophied, softball sized brain.

I hope this thread can be preserved for posterity. Entire careers could be built on dissecting the woo. It's the mother lode!

"Entire careers could be built on dissecting the woo."

Sitting around your Mother's house "dissecting the woo" is probably about as far as any of you will get.

Stupid size queen.

"What are you doing down in that cellar Opus?"

"Dissecting the woo Mom."

"Dissecting what?"

"Dissecting the woo!!!"

(under breath) "Disgusting little brat." (To Opus) "Now you get upstairs young man. Right now!"

"Mom! We're changing the world, one reader at the time. The woo is deceiving all of us!"

"Listen you man: they'll be no more dissecting of the woo around this house anymore. I've had enough of this nonsense. You are going cut that greasy stringy hair of yours, get an actual job, and move out and support yourself. Your father is shutting off the interwebs right at this very moment!"

*blackout*

Where's the woo in this thread?

Dazed,

There is no "woo" in this thread. These people are obsessed with "woo" and see it everywhere they look, regardless if it's there or not. Rather like a number of lunatics in Salem a few centuries back, seeing nothing but witchcraft lurking in every innocent word and gesture.

In a word, under the guise of "science" these people are actually a bunch of "religious" zealots.

And they call themselves the "Woo Seekers." Or so I hear.

You know, it took me a long time to understand the appeal of such things as Hooked on Phonics and that "Total Transformation" thing with the scary-looking "social worker" -- to deal with problems with your kids that you're too embarrassed to admit that you have. Good thing that this is quite obviously the point of Viagra spam.

Now we have Dr. Crisler. If I could sum up what I think his practice involves, it's "men who think their low testosterone levels make them unmanly". Certainly seems to describe the epic defensiveness and what appears to be frenzied meatpuppetry. I wonder how many of Dr. Crisler's patients are men's rights agitators...

@BrianX

Indeed, that's what I always suspected about testosterone woo. The indications for testosterone replacement are not nearly as broad as Dr. Crisler and his boyz seem to think, but if you read the boards and claims TRT is made to sound like some sort of panacea good for everything that ails you. In fact, if I may be so bold as to make an analogy, this whole testosterone replacement thing reminds me very much of Suzanne Somers and her claim that taking bioidentical hormones to raise her estrogen levels to that of a woman in her 20s is some sort of fountain of youth. Lots of parallels there. Hmmmmm. Maybe that's an idea for a blog post....

The vile hate spewing continues back at musclechatroom:

However, Dr. Peter A. Lipson will have firmly established himself--for all of time--as one of the great buffoons of medical history.

In coming generations they will look back at what he has chosen to publish and laugh and laugh. His family will live in shame, into eternity.
-Dr. Crisler

These are personal attacks, this man has no integrity. I continue to be shocked, because I keep thinking (in vain) that surely he will get control of himself. He is very angry and defensive.

I speak as a parent, if I have a problem with someone, I don't jump up and down and scream about it in front of my children. This seems to be exactly what he is doing to his patients. A person in authority should be able to control themselves, not use their position to rile others to their cause.

Kristen, are you really that stupid?

He is telling the truth about Dr. Lipson. You probably know that.

What you don't seem to realize, for some reason, is that Dr. PayPal and his legions of Woo-Seekers have been doing nothing BUT attacking Dr. Crisler for days now.

Seekers of the Woo are seriously deficient in Vitamin Reason.

Show me where Pal has attacked Dr. Crisler personally, talked about his family etc...

I don't know Dr. Lipson personally, certainly not well enough to call him a pedophile. But that would be okay to say, right, as long as he was really, really mean to me?

Kristen, you are profoundly infected with the Woo. Perhaps you should get some rest?

After your nap, please do give some thought about how all this started, what it was precipitated by, and who really is the vicious one here.

However, Dr. Peter A. Lipson will have firmly established himself--for all of time--as one of the great buffoons of medical history.
In coming generations they will look back at what he has chosen to publish and laugh and laugh. His family will live in shame, into eternity.
-Dr. Crisler

Now that's just pathetic. That's the kind of impotent revenge fantasizing that I'd expect from a 10 year old kid, not an apparently successful MD.

What's next - Crisler calling PalMD a doody-head? Sad and embarassing.

I'm fairly certain that I will not be established in history and remembered by generations, good or bad, except perhaps by my progeny. I'm not sure what kind of person thinks that way.

@ 156 PayPal

That depends upon whether you infect your children with da Mad Woo fever. As far as I can tell, it spreads rather quickly; it seems to have infected most of your followers. So prolly your family has it too.

I'm currently in a giant plastic bubble, complete with tinfoil headgear, rubber gloves, mask, etc) so as to prevent infection.

After all, one can't be too careful around "doody-heads."

@157

Critical thinking skills can be should be taught by parents. I am sure Pal is doing a great job with this.

I am very sorry your parents couldn't teach you.

Kirsten - Look, I just don't think guys who canoe like that have any business instructing anyone about "critical thinking."

I told you before, your obsession with canoes can be dealt with in therapy. You seem to have other obsessions you may need help with...

WTF....PalMD starts out (several days ago) accusing Dr. Crisler of being unethical with no real proof.....and so the shitball starts to roll....

This has got to be the most hypocritical blog site I have ever seen in my life. All of you "science" bloggers keep asking for evidence from Dr. Crisler, yet you can produce none to backup your own smear campaign. Well, if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black, then I don't know what is!

Did someone say canoe?

Everyone else has already said all the good stuff, so I'll just jump in for the trivia fun.

Not that I'm writing this for the benefit of an ignorable troll, but for those who might not be sure what PalMD is doing sitting in the middle of the canoe with it tilted sideways [oops, I see he's already posted a link to that. oh well, I'll keep mine here now that it's written]. It's great for maneuverability, and is useful if you're battling winds, or just want to do canoe ballet--there's an almost Zen-like feeling of having a canoe respond to your slightest paddle movement, doing circles, moving sideways. From his position PalMD can keep his paddle in the water the entire time if he chooses--it is a great way to paddle silently (no splish-splash sound of the paddle exiting, entering the water) if you're trying to sneak quietly along so you can photograph wildlife.

His canoeing form looks fine for solo paddling without camping gear in that type of canoe (is it a 15 footer? Modified Old Town, or shortened Prospector?).

For what it's worth I'm a canoe-paddling Canuck with ORCA certifications (that's before it became ORCKA) who's been canoeing for 36 years, have taught canoeing at kid camps, and regularly does extended solo canoe trips (hundreds of km in one trip in my Kevlar 14' Scout) through Quetico, Algonquin Park, and that whole mish-mash of rivers, lakes, streams, beaver ponds in between as well as canoeing the Nahanni River with a few friends a while back (17' Wind River fibreglass modified Prospector), plus did the Bowron Lake circuit in BC 2 years ago (17' Grumman--ugh! Never again a Grumman unless I want to use it for a toboggan on snow).

I've canoed all the Great Lakes (using a friend's cedar strip Chestnut Prospector--love at first sight), and I like playing in big waves at our local lake (in my short Scout)--and they get big!--I eventually get dumped but I get to shore and start out all over again (yes, I wear my pdf or life-jacket). I canoe from ice breakup to ice freeze for fun, as well as for some of my contracts (wildlife biologist--I get paid to canoe!!!), and every year I try to find an open river in the winter so I can reenact that end snowy scene from Bill Mason's Waterwalker.

There! My anecdotal experiential evidence trumps a troll`s anecdotal evidence. ;-))

Based on your one pic at the top, PalMD, I'd have no reservations about including you in one of our group trips--We'd be pretty sure you won't dump your canoe, all the gear and your partner into the drink.

Wait, Dr. Crisler attempts a full-frontal internet flame-war and this is the best he can come up with? The mouthbreathing trolls on the feminist blogs I read make these roid-addled twits look like tame little puppy dogs.

I mean, reading everyone engaging these morons is amusing, sure, but this is massive flame-war fail here.

"The mouthbreathing trolls on the feminist blogs I read make these roid-addled twits look like tame little puppy dogs.

I mean, reading everyone engaging these morons is amusing, sure, but this is massive flame-war fail here."

What do you expect from people whose hormones are raging out of control in inverse relationship to their IQ levels (I'm speaking of the 'roid rangers here)?

All kinds of weird emotional lability can be expected from the cycling up and down that these semi-addicts engage in.

There's likely also fear that (for now) legal outlets for their testosterone binges will be closed down, so they lash out bizarrely at whoever the Enemy seems to be.

Read Jack Olsen's "Salt Of The Earth" for some insight into the psyches involved.

Bacon, what you just said is so profoundly & excruciatingly ignorant.

How does one "cycle" 5mg of testosterone, and why would one do this?

"Semi-Addicts" = wow.

People on anti-depressants or anti-anxiety medication are far closer to semi-addicts than anyone on prescription testosterone.

How can one "binge" on prescription testosterone?

You're clearly world expert on this topic, please elaborate this process I go through in detail.

@Dazed

I was not going to post on these threads again, but I have to take issue with your assesment of anti-depressants.

I am raising my 14 year-old sister. She has bipolar disorder and was headed to a psychiatric hospital before we found the right meds for her. Now she goes to an alternative school, and on the honor roll. These medications can be life saving! She is not quite there yet, but at least now she is headed in the right direction.

I have nooooo problem with anti-depressants. My mother is schizophrenic and on a billion of them. My only point is that they're readily dispensed as a cure-all at this point, especially for fatigue related issues, and despite the potential of serious side effects, and addiction in cases of welbutrin and others, they're treated very nonchalantly in contrast to the intense skepticism and fear of hormones replacement even when properly diagnosed with a blood test.

It's almost like anti-depressants have become the new version of giving antibiotics for viral infections just to give patients _something_.

Often it appears people who aren't really depressed or are depressed because they're unwell for another reason such as diabetes or hypogonadism or another disorder are just given anti-depressants in hopes that's all the problem is. Many of the guys on crislers board have had their doctors offer them to them before any diagnosis attempt was made at a real disease, I've also seen this with my friends and long ago with myself. When i was 17 i went to my parents GP with inability to concentrate and fatigue and whatnot, he gave me paxil. I took it once, it was awful for me.. probably because I didn't actually need it! Later that year my dad found out about sleep apnea because my uncle was diagnosed with it, and we snored the same way. Low and behold i had a sleep study done and i had sleep apnea.

There's a poorly understood circular relationship between sleep apnea, obesity, diabetes, and hypogonadism and low and behold I was back at the GP's with fatigue last year and was diagnosed with hypgonadism which is how I'm in this whole mess. I hate boring everyone with my dumb life story but just trying to add some context to my statement. I think anti-depressants are fine, just like i think antibiotics are fine. I think it's sad when either one is overprescribed.

Does it seem to anyone else that we could substitute "chelation" or "hyperbaric oxygen therapy" for "TRT" in the recent posts?

I sympathize with those who are abusing steroids, or are morbidly obese, but there are effective treatments for those conditions that are much cheaper than massive hormone doses prescribed by a boutique physician.

Bill I have no idea where you're getting the impression that TRT, something there are clinical guidelines for from the endocrine society, is the same as hyperbaric oxygen therapy or chelation.

http://www.endo-society.org/guidelines/final/upload/AndrogensMenGuideli…

Why would you sympathize with someone abusing steroids, lol? It's not like having an opiate addiction, they're just being idiots with full presence of mind and control of their actions.

Where is the idea coming from that massive hormone doses are being prescribed? What are the massive hormone amounts and how do you presume that prescribing them is even possible? Why do you presume they are outrageously expensive? Testosterone is $20-40 a month. Let's not even touch the concept of effective treatments for obesity and addiction.

I feel like a broken record but it's hard to let it go when each know-nothing blowhard with a made up idea of what's happening based on something he saw on tv once flippantly maligns everyone involved.

So, has anyone yet explained how James Ray got that letter from Dr. Crisler if (as Crisler claims) he never prescribed anything to Ray?

@170

So, has anyone yet explained how James Ray got that letter from Dr. Crisler if (as Crisler claims) he never prescribed anything to Ray?

I don't think that he said that he never prescribed any medications for Mr. Ray. I believe what he said was that he did not prescribe any of the medications that were found at the time of investigation in this case. There is a difference.

This comment got looked over. I don't know if it's for better or worse. Anyway, I just had a slightly amusing rejoinder.

@143
"1. if a man can't be obsessed with his own genitals, what CAN you be obsessed with?"

Well, obviously, canoes. And, apparently, this blog post.

When I read that comment I thought: Wouldn't a straight man be more interested in a woman's genitals?

Just goes to show you how my mind works.

Women's genitals are totally gross.

I like boobies.

A lot.

I'm calling Poe on 174

@174

At least you won't be procreating. That just makes me feel better about the future of the human race.

"Peter Lipson"?

Are you fucking kidding me? Can you imagine the teasing this chub had to endure as a kid? No surprise that he has to try and build self-esteem by writing a blog bashing other doctors.

"clinical guidelines for from the endocrine society"

Chelation and HBOT do have specific, limited clinical applications, but they are often widely sold as panaceas.

It appears the same is happening with trt, at least in this context.

We've seen anecdotal testimonials with near miraculous claims, again, much the same as with HBOT or chelation.

Boutique because the fees are above the norm for someone with no professional certification in endocrinology.

I've yet to see anyone claim a panacea. I didn't question your use of boutique. I said:

"Where is the idea coming from that massive hormone doses are being prescribed? What are the massive hormone amounts and how do you presume that prescribing them is even possible? Why do you presume they are outrageously expensive? Testosterone is $20-40 a month."

Before you're put on HRT you're tested. For instance, having a total testosterone of around 300 or less. I think it's even illegal for people to be put on HGH if their IGF-1 is higher than 150 as an adult? You don't just make up a reason for someone to get on hormones like chelation where someone says "you have toxins" that they don't test for and then presume are there and have been removed with no way to even verify this.

I'm sure you believe in hypothyroidism. The only difference in validity between low testosterone and that is your lack of exposure to it combined with whatever irrational desire you've developed in whatever arbitrary way to view it in a cynical light. I've heard miraculous claims from people who eventually discovered they had hypothyroidism and got on synthroid or armour, it didn't make me suspicious. If someones TSH is 15 and they get on thyroid hormone and turn their life around this is not strange. If someones testosterone level is 250 and they get on TRT and go to 750 and turn their life around this shouldn't be strange either.

What else do patients have besides their own personal stories? Testosterone has already been well researched for the purpose of treating low testosterone. It's just a poor analogy that sounds like it's based on the bias you're willfully developing from wanting a reason to hate the people involved in this conversation.

@Bob #170: The earliest place I can find that Crisler letter is from an Arizona newspaper that had a very complete list of what authorities found in Ray's resort room. Although it has no date and an old office address for Crisler, it does have a signature.

However, has Crisler denied that this is his signature?

The reason why there is so much hostlity to testosterone on this blog is that scienceblogs and all the individual authors here represent corporate amerika, in particular they represent the viewpoints of the medical corporations, that control the information, drugs and funding for research studies. These are the Pharmaceutical, health insurance companies, hospital chains etc.

The drug industry makes its money through patented drugs. Testosterone is a natural substance so it cannot be patented and therefore outside of and anathema to oorporate Amerika health care. One small crack in the armor however, a number of FDA approved patented testeosterone preparations are currently being marketed by big Pharma, and many urologists are jumping on the band wagon prescribing Testo to their patients. So things are changing and Testo is more acceptable now than 10 years ago and making inroads into mainstream medicine.

Another typical pattern we see with corporate medicine is the type of smears you see here against individual doctors for "deviating" from some imaginary standards or guidelines manufactured for the event. The reality of medical practice is that doctors are free to use their own judgement based on their experience and knowledge which may be either more advanced or less so than the next doctor. In an open medical market place, the patient may find one doctor suitable and another not suitable depending on the issues involved and the types of care offered.

We already have considerable regulation of medicine at all levels, Imposing additional standards of care or guidelines as has been attempted here, is a form of control found in totalitarian or authoritarian governments, and not a good idea if we are to remain a free society.

In any event would you want your doctor to be a corporate fascist canoist who maintains a blog rating by smearing other good doctors? I dont think so. This guy is bad news.

Sinking Canoe:

ll the individual authors here represent corporate amerika, in particular they represent the viewpoints of the medical corporations, that control the information, drugs and funding for research studies. These are the Pharmaceutical, health insurance companies, hospital chains etc.

Again with the totally unoriginal ! Can't you guys use something different? Like data and evidence?

HTML fail (at least the link is okay)... It is the completely unoriginal Pharma Shill Gambit.

By the way, does Dr. Crisler give those drugs away? Or do you have to actually pay for them?

re: chris

When one side of the the discussion makes an appeal to another blog with a lengthy entry, that is a sure sign of capitulation and defeat. Way to go you moron.

Huh? That makes absolutely no sense. Especially if you read above that Crisler's forum only allows registered users to even see it, and are placing spurious accusations.

Now, please provide data and evidence for your claims that this blog what you claim it is.

Dontcha just love the predictable "where's your data and evidence" from a typical groupie. Take a look through your colonoscope you moron, its all in there. Whatta jerk.

Aren't you just full of class? So the requests for actual evidence are annoying? How much more annoying are they than the ubiquitous name calling?

Wow. This thread is really something. I'm not sure what, though.

I'm also unsure what purpose it serves to taunt people who are determined to serve as n-of-1 experiments by an amateur endocrinologist.

How is noting that the Pharma Shill Gambit is old and tired, and asking for evidence "taunting"?

By the way, Ginger, I have been accused of being a Pharma Shill for well over a decade. It is old, tired and stupid. Whenever I see it, I call it out. That is not taunting.

Since I have about three college tuitions to pay next spring, I could use that pharma cash. Does anyone know where I can apply?

I was referring to the thread as a whole, not to you in particular, Chris. People keep engaging with Micawber despite the certainty they will make no headway in persuading him. (Presumably they are hoping third parties will be persuaded. Or they're really that bored.)

I wouldn't take the Pharma Shill thing personally - at Aetiology and its precursor, the label was applied to everyone who endorses the radical stance that some disease originates from infection.

Crisler and his boyz are a bunch of whiny-ass titty babies who are so afraid of being accused of being feminine or teh ghey that they are stamping out every last vestige of "wiminz" in themselves (Arimadex? Puh-leez!) and acting like a bunch of cut-rate thugs harassing someone who dares express an opinion contrary to theirs.

They look like a bunch of pitiful cultists waiting for some fucking testicle-shaped space ship to take them away to Happysack Land. Grow the fuck up.

(I'm not saying any of them beats their wives, but many people who do beat their wives act this way.)

Ginger, it is just that the Pharma Shill Gambit is just so lame. And I gave up on Micawber early on.

Oh, yeah. I love how the Pharma Shill gambit includes everyone who could possibly prescribe, dispense, or study medications, or study health or disease, or study cellular mechanisms related to health or disease, so that the conspiracy is so vast it's more like living in The Matrix, retold with Pharma Shills in the place of The Agents.

Asshat yeah it's so great taking something that costs $15 per pill and is so powerful you can easily over medicate yourself and create a new set of symptoms. arimidex is a real joy, my favorite hobby.

I smell irony...

Defending against the Pharma Shill Gambit is easy. Just mention all the money the pharmaceutical industry throws around at medical meetings. Or just mention all the drugs banned by the FDA after approwal. Or just mention all the ghost written medical reports that manipulate the data. Or mention how the drug companies peddle deceit and lies to the FDA and the American public in order to profit from bad drugs. Or just mention how the health insurance industry steals money from sick people by denying meeded medical care just to make wall street happy with the bottom line. That's what coproate medicine is all about. It's not about human life, its about the holy all mighty dollar. And that is what science blog including this one stands for. It's a simple dichotomy. Freedom vs Slavery. The Canoeist stands for medical tyranny and enslavement to medical corporations.
This is medical fascism. Welcome to Amerika, your country. You voted for it. For me, I say no thanks.

"Medical fascism" ahahaha, oh man, you are not even wrong...

Congrats though Pal, you just got Godwin'd!

The Pharma Shill Gambit is especially lame when the clueless person uses thinks it is a valid substitute for evidence. Of course, as just noted, the fool just pulled a Godwin.

Medical Freedom or Medical Fascism?

Nope, wrong again. Godwin has nothing to do with this. By the way, did I mention that Chris is a moron?

Randroid alert!

Oh, bother, he has absolutely no idea what Godwin is, even with the link! I very much enjoyed how the Randroids were treated in Old School.

Medical fascism?

Hoo boy. I think I need to report you to the death panel for that.