Puzzle Fantastica #1 Conjecture

Some parting thoughts:

Here's some numbers that pop up in these clues. Thought I might list them if anyone can find something in them.
For the fish : 8 and 6(hexagonal boney plates)
For the cow : 4 (four compartmental stomach)
For Elvis : 1 (there is only one king)
For the video : 50(as stated before), but also maybe 24
For the novel : 13

But on a completely different tangent, there seems to be alot of noise in these clues. This puzzle wouldn't happen to be commentary on the difficultly of seperating actual information from background noise.

Lastly the name of this puzzle has greatly affected my answers( at least at first. The term Fantastica has caused me to lean towards more fantasy based answers. What I would like to know is (even if the answer is never revealed). Is 'IT' something based in reality or fantasy, science or fiction? Further, if it is 'real' wouldn't Scientifica be a better discriptor?

In answer to your question. I would give the answer and move on to #2.

Yes, yes - post the answer! This has gone on for far too long, and I see nothing but helpless floundering among the masses. Some rather fascinating floundering, but floundering nevertheless.

I think part of the problem is that we are missing a frame of reference. Once we see the answer, we will hopefully understand how you put the puzzle together and thus do better on the next one.

Unless you do something very different for the next one.

I'd still like a crack at it. The image presented here, which is impressive I must admit, does have a subtle clue (maybe). The order of the clues keeps changing. Do you think that is significant?

I haven't been able to go through most of the suggested solutions, but so far they all seem to be trying to dissect each clue's content and find a pattern. I'm wondering if the content of each clue is irrelevant and it is the format of the clues that is important. There is an illustration, a metaphor (the poster), a non-fictional video clip and two types of storytelling: a movie and a novel. I'm still trying to refine this, but I'm thinking this is about ways we communicate ideas to one another.

jenjen, et al., alas, the order of clues leading to the answer (one based in reality, that is to say, neither a unicorn, dragon, nor sean hannity's understanding of the world) can be of help, and is significant, and that presented above lends itself most closely to what might be referred to as "the correct" order.

Don't tell us yet! Post another clue!

something to do with a book, which was later adapted to a movie...?

halfassed, halfhearted, flailing ignorant guess: fast food nation. you've got your fast food beef (and dairy products), fast food bird (chicken), fast food fish (i guess). the first three could be the mcdonalds menu, minus the fries. you've got a novel (ok, book) about them, and it's being made into a film (i think).

I vote for another clue. I'd also like to vote 'nay' for leaving the puzzle unanswered and not providing another clue. I haven't come up with any new thoughts on these five that haven't already been brought up. I wouldn't be dismayed if it was just answered, either, as another clue would cause me to spend way too much time thinking about it.

I want to guess. Is it:

Decodings, the official newsletter of the Society for Literature, Science, and the Arts (SLSA)?

http://slsa.press.jhu.edu/decodings/index.html

I vote for another clue, but one unlike those above. Perhaps a solid clue as to how we should go about finding the answer or what genre of answer to expect. Something that might help with the process more than the content of the answer.

I believe I have a partial solution. You use the numbers in the pictures to locate the words in the "novel" section. So the number 8 in the fish picture = "not" and the number 50 in the video = "started". The Elvis video is after the novel, so it just means -- "at The World's Fair" -- or at this here blog. So, thus far I have: "not started at The World's Fair."

I don't get the cow part. If there is a number in there, I can't see it. I think there used to be a link to a photo that you could blow up, but I can't find that link now.

I'm with ThePolynomial. A clue to the clues please.

I have been looking for commonalities (e.g., if we score 50 on the dartboard that would be a bullseye, Elvis used the bullseye logo for one of his tours and kept shooting at it with his gun, the cow would be the focus of the bull's eye, etc.). Is that an appropriate approach?

But, if not, then another one of the images, and weeks more of happy agony...

Time! Time! Give us more Time!
No new clues, if you think what we have already is sufficient.

I didn't see this in the conjecture image or any of the comments I've read and perhaps it's too simplistic but my guess is the 2008 World's Fair in Zaragoza, Spain and the theme for that Expo is "Water and Sustainable Development."

That was my gut first impression.

Food chains.

- Fish are used in...

- Cow feed. And cows are consumed by...

- Humans. (Like Elvis! Who looks like he's about to use that nutrition to spawn...)

- ...the baby who plays in that backyard! (Although I think your point is that a human like Elvis tossed out seed for for the birds).

- Birds carry pox.

Specifically, it's bird droppings that cause the pox. My original theory was this was about POLLUTED eco systems. (Since it's also the pox-infested mattress that's making brother Colin sick.)

The pollution thread also carries through. The fish have to deal with mercury in their water - which is consumed by the cows. (Who are also creating their own methane pollution.

Elvis looks like he's singing under a grey sky polluted with words. Although I'd assumed you were pointing to the fact that Elvis polluted his body with chemicals - far too many chemicals.

Er, just to beat this into the ground.

The World's Fair was also considered a source of pollution.
(The Space Needle is said to be as ource of light pollution, and "World's Fair contractors were criticized for burning rubbish, failing to wet down construction roads, and clean out dust on truck and construction equipment.")

A poster can find birds of a feather schooling together better at The World's Fair.

ive started scan the multiple pages around this puzzle, and have a few observations:
this is a puzzle for scientists/by scientists. how do you apply the scientific method here?

what are the relevant observations about the set of data (5 digital objects), trying to be as objective and least biased as possible?
what are the consistent elements, what are the variations (all digital images, similar aspect ratios, related to fauna, etc..)

einstein maybe said "if we knew what we were doing, it wouldnt be research, would it?"

we are bootstrapping ourselves into what is important about this puzzle, and skepticism is a virtue.

can you simulate this system? is this a question of process not content? (i'm interested in google's role in the whole system) could "the solution" be related to the interconnection between objects NOT the objects?

what does a solution look like? i'm positing it is a theory that closely matches the evidence/data, AND is verifiable.

does this make any sense?

Another bit added onto the pile of conjecture. While gazing at the whole montage I noticed that the video is stopped at a particular frame. A frame showing two nets, or alternately perhaps, two goals.

With the net interpretation, combined with the rare fish, and the Bed, I get a nautical theme. I get a reference perhaps to new fish catching technology. Specifically to nets that let fishermen catch the fish they are going after, and less of the species they don't. If only Elvis would fit into it, then maybe it could be a quinfecta. The cow a reference to the purpose of the fishing.

As to the two goals.... I'm too tired tonight to think about it(that means I have no earthly clue right now).

Why do I get the distinct feeling I'm making this entirely too difficult.

"Wonder is contagious at The World's Fair." (Likewise, could be "Teaching is contagious" or "Learning is contagious", depending on how the first clue is taken. "Cows are contagious" however seems unlikely.

I suspect the addition of the two follow-on clues widened the solution space, rather than narrowed it, allowing the creation of more patterns that would otherwise have been possible.

And narrowing it down a bit more...The first two elements, cows as food factories and cowfish, are "wonders", as are the next two clues - a weird flock of birds that has descended on a back yard, and a wondrous recovery from illness. The final element is the King at the World's Fair.

Hence, "Wonder is king at The World's Fair". :-)

Or even "Wonder and curiousities are king at The World's Fair."

Robear, "wonder" is a much more elegant way of putting my own hypothesis in the previous Fantastica post: "viral internet curiosity." It seems pretty clear to me that WE, and our inevitable reactions to this fun puzzle, are the vital element in the answer.

Well, I see what you are saying. I'm reasoning that it has to be soluble with the first three clues; the cow that makes food (a wonder, perhaps); the cowfish, a curiousity; and the King at the World's fair. Add to that another two other things that fall into the same category, and you have exemplars of the philosophy for the site described in the "About" page.

I decided against going for numerology or Pantone correlations or crypto stuff when I noticed the site was run by teachers, not semioticists. Unless they spent years fleshing out the puzzle, I don't think we have an Umberto Eco lookalike contest going on here. Ockham's Razor (and the "you'll get it" comment) imply a bit more simplicity.

I have always seen a tendency for people to see connections where there are none, and this contest has really brought out that ability. It's what makes us successful hunters, and it's interesting to see it in play as we try to solve the puzzle.

See, I agree that it has to be "wonder" or "curiosity" for a similar reason. It seemed obvious from the beginning that all other clues had to back up a conjecture that could be made from the original first three. And, knowing that this site is run by teachers, I suspect this puzzle arises from the fundamental problem of all learning: Knowing thyself first. If you fail to recognize your own influence on the puzzle, or anything you care about, then you distance yourself from it. In attempting to exercise pure analysis, you become a mere technician of reality. A good teacher makes the process of learning personally relevent, so that you love it, so that it means more than the sum of its parts.

That's exactly what they did.

The puzzle seems Biblical to me:

Exodus 26: "Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.'"

As many people will tell you, Elvis is The Man. The birds, fish, and cattle speak for themselves. And the novel begins, "This is sort of how it all started." Which describes Exodus perfectly. If you believe it. I think.

Oops: that should be Genesis, not Exodus! Guess you can tell how familiar I am with the Bible!

Biblical makes sense to some extent given the numerology. 1 and 4 and 8 and also 3 if you play with 8 and 24.

1 is the holy number. (The King maybe?)
3 is the perfect number the one of family (flock of birds and also kids playground stuff?) and also the number of repetition. the video plays on repeat.
4 is the number of creation (god created the animals, also 4 stomachs are a fairly unique creation)
8 is the number of continuation and new beginnings (going back to the ark and all that)
13 is either a lucky number or an unlucky one depending on who you ask... it fits the story.

It could be simple - take away the commonality as suggested by the pox piece and that leaves food, fish, birds eating (food again) and Seattle. What's the food fish in Seattle? King Salmon, of course.

Vonnegut might be the connection.

Two assertions, the more important first:

1) The clues do NOT themselves necessarily comprise any puzzle, which means seeking interrelations betweeen them as a way of 'solving the puzzle' is probably a futile exercise.

Evidence:
A)In the introductory post, the clues are called "things that are useful, that will lead you to IT," (it in this case = the "something being revealed", which is presumably but also not necessarily the puzzle).

B) They label the clues "Our Puzzle?", the punctuation implying that should be some doubt there.

2) Given what we know so far, what we see as the content of the clues could well be unimportant.

Their order, and even their clockwise orientation, has been shuffled each time they were posted.

As a general observation about the last two clues, both appear to have been 'just tossed off,' no pun intended for British readers. This doesn't bode well for their importance in solving the puzzle.

Here's a commonsense rundown on what the clues would mean, if they were NOT seen in relation to each other and in fact you didn't even know the other clues existed:

The fish clue is associated with:
Haeckel
Darwinism
Fish, generally
Fish, of the particular species portrayed (box/turret/cow?)
Creative Commons
A painted image
The number 8

The Cow is associated with:
Cows, generally
Milk
Domesticated animals
Human perception of animals (due to the text)
World War II (derivation of the photo)
A printed, photographic image

The Elvis image is associated with
Elvis
"The King"
The World's Fair generally (due to the film's name)
The 1962 World's Fair in Seattle
The blog the Word's fair
Music, film, and DVD's

The film clip (clue #4) is associated with
Birds (of a nondescript but possibly significant type)
Children's Toys
Dave's Backyard, any backyard
Video, amateur video
debatably, various numbers (of the birds or on the dart board, etc)

The beginning of the novel is associated with
Writing and Books
Beds
(Chicken) Pox
Uncertainty (due to the equivocal nature of the writing: virtually nothing is asserted except that it is a beginning).
The author's brother Colin
13 year pox?

***

Looking for common themes given the above doesn't leave you with much.

You can say that the medium of presentation of each clue differs slightly, and that when ordered as above, they appear to show time advancing (Haeckel, WWII, 1962, A few weeks ago, a fictional future time).

Attempts to find direct relations between the clues (for instance: chicken pox/cow pox/cow birds; or take your pick the number theme ideas) always strain to make sense for one or more clues.

At any rate, a sufficient answer will have to start by defining the puzzle, and I repeat my initial assertion, The Puzzle is not the clues.

The clues can only lead you *somewhere*

If someone with time on his or her hands could give a far more thorough analysis of each clue taken individually than I have above, it might possibly help us find directions out.

Best,

Tock

PS I can't resist saying that despite vague claims to the contrary by Ben and Dave, I still fear there is trickery afoot. If the puzzle is "bigger than us (them)," then doesn't that suggest we're the ones who have to determine the answer?

Given the well-discussed meta-experiment, possibly they're just waiting for our 'scientific' consensus to build around one answer, and then, hey, presto, that's the answer.

If that or anything like it is the case I'm going to be very annoyed to have spent any time on this...I want there to be a definite conclusion, and an ineluctable path leading to and from it!

I won't leave you with the logic behind this guess, but just say," Is it Atlantropa?"

these are the buildings of your site map
or
A novel idea to flock to burger king for a fish sandwich
or
subscribe to seed and advertise w/ scienceblogs
or
the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the king

All I will say is: "Fortieth ....."

Perhaps it is not the clues themselves, but instead the settings they are in. So the fish is in the river bed, cow is on the land, the space needle touches the sky. The birds confirm the sky to clear up the Elvis clue.

And, the final clue, it is not Colin, but the bed he is in! So, water, earth, air...

"The puzzle is bigger than us..." King-sized perhaps?

Well, then the first three clues would lead us to: The (Fish) SCALE is (Cow) UDDERly (Elvis) KING-sized.

The giant swarm of birds and the final clue leading us to beds as the frame of reference, only further proves the above.

When I was a kid, we were given a test in school. At the top of the first page it said, "Read through the entire test before starting." Then there were a bunch of difficult but entertaining questions. And at the bottom of the last page it said something like, "Don't answer any of the questions on this test. Just hand it in now."

In the spirit of applying the lesson I learned about reading instructions carefully, the questions first posed by the authors were:

"What is the puzzle? What is it a puzzle of?"

They didn't ask for the answer; they asked for the puzzle.

So the "answers" to the original questions are:

The puzzle is to figure out what the puzzle is. And the puzzle is of a puzzle, consisting of a fish, a cow, an Elvis thing, a video, and the start of a novel.

Everything shown is in (or should be in) the public domain.
Their original copyrights have expired.
Can it be that simple?

The letter P

Man, been looking at these clues all day instead of working. Keep coming back to underwater methane pools and their potential to affect global warming. I may not have been productive at work, but I certainly have read more scientific papers in one day than I did my last two years of college. So, cudos to you for that.

As for "how to proceed", that seems obvious. Your enjoyment is seeing what connections people make and how they reach them. Is there really joy to be had saying "Times up, the answer is X. Here's the next puzzle." I think those of us who have spent time thinking would feel cheated that you, the puzzle masters, gave up on us. And if puzzle #2 is just as difficult (which it would have to be) we might not try as hard, knowing that you'll tell us eventually anyway.

Besides, I want to see someone win and have that conversation about the topic of their choice.

So bring on another clue. Set a regular date to add others if need be and then start side bets among yourselves on how many clues it will take to get to the center of it all.

Two guesses:

1. the folly of having a theorem in mind first and then selecting or manufacturing evidence to back that theorem, even unconsciously. seeing patterns where those patterns are lifted wholescale from imagination.

2. genetic engineering of foodstuffs. humans fostering their own evolutionary processes to further their own ends, rather than allowing nature to proceed down her random path.

.. good puzzle, btw ..

fwiw, i vote for another clue.

I want to start by saying that I have no idea what being a "puzzle of (something)" means. Let's say a puzzle of teddy bears. Does that mean that the puzzle is comprised of teddy bears, which you then manipulate to solve the puzzle? I understand that a puzzle can be made up of puzzles, but the question here was "What is it a puzzle of?" Sunshine and rainbows? A puzzle of... some distinction? If anyone wants to clear that up for me, feel free.

Tock is right on in his above post. "What is the puzzle?" and "What is the puzzle of?" are the questions we need to answer(as I mentioned I don't even understand question 2, so that's a wash).
The answers: The puzzle is very distracting.
The puzzle is of great difficulty.
TA-DA!

But seriously folks...if the clues are not in fact a part of the puzzle, I don't have much, except to say that the clues all seem to point to content on this sight both literally and figuratively.(Notice that the fish and the cow are both pointing to the left, towards links to content on this site. The basketball hoop points to the left, and the film itself moves from right to left. Elvis clue references the world's fair, and the novel is written by the writers here.) The graphical clues point 'up' when they are represented on the left hand side of the page, also pointing towards links to the site's(and other) content(there doesn't seem to be a reason why they would be turned sideways, seems kind of odd doesn't it?).

I think the details about the clues could perhaps help one sift through content. One extra thing that fits with the 'polluting the environment' interpretation of the clues I haven't seen mentioned. The 'cowfish' in question is capable of releasing a toxin for protection. In the ocean this isn't a problem, but if it were to do this trick in a tank, it would kill itself.

The puzzle itself I would guess must be a riddle of some sort, as most puzzles need quite a bit of structure and would jump right out at you if you saw one.

In conclusion, I have no conclusion really, except that I'm reasonably certain that 'IT' is hiding somewhere on the left of the page, perhaps in the posts(excluding posts since the puzzle started, as it was solvable at that time.)

THERE IS NOW AN UPDATE, PLEASE NOTE, WHERE WE'VE SOUGHT A FOLLOW-UP THAT WAS IN KEEPING WITH THE VARIOUS IDEAS ABOVE (as to: another clue, or hold back, or move on). Please visit: "Puzzle Fantastica: This is it..."

Here's my guess: the Industrial Revolution. Guess number 2: Progress and its implications.

Has anyone considered The Neverending Story?
In the english translation of the book (A Novel?), the fantasy world is called Fantastica.
Each of the 26 chapters starts with an illuminated page of the corresponding letter (1-A, 2-B,..etc).
So some possibilities are:
1 - A - "A Novel"
2 - B - Book, birds
3 - C - Cow, cowfish
D
5 - E - Elvis
6 - F - Fish, Food factory
:
14 - N - Novel

The last clue may have been telling us to think of books, specifically books about Fantastica
So Fish, Cow, Elvis = 6 3 5
The video may be saying rotate the numbers, a possibility being 365, days in one year.
How old is Science Blogs? Is there an anniversary approaching?

Or is FCE, or its permutations, an acronym for something?
Or are the hexadecimal values relevant?

OK. I know it is all over the net right now, but is it Dark Matter? The black and white picture of the cow is dark (a living animal as robitic factory). the crows are dark lumps of matter. The coral fish lives in dark places. The story is dark. the Elvis film is, well, at one point Elvis pays a kid to beat him up. Damn. This thing always breaks down at the elvis film for me.

The items represent utter nonsense

A cow as a food factory is butter nonsense
A fish with so many fins produces flutter nonsense
A movie with Elvis is strutter nonsense
The video of birds feeding is shutter nonsense
A novel with such disjointed prose is mutter nonsense.

Gee, that was easy.

The original question was: "What is the puzzle? What is it a puzzle of?" The question is not asking for the answer to the puzzle.

So, it is a puzzle of a picture of a fish, an image of a cow as a food factory and an Elvis poster.

Ta-da!

Hello?
Is there going to be a solution soon?
I thing interest is dying down a little...

Time for another puzzle yet?

it's a good question, Joe, and one our staff is working on answering, 'round the clock, as it were...stay tuned....

Puzzle Fantastica #1 Conjecture – The World's Fair I was suggested this web site by my cousin. I am not sure whether this post is written by him as no one else know such detailed about my trouble. You're amazing! Thanks! your article about Puzzle Fantastica #1 Conjecture – The World's FairBest Regards Yoder