EXPELLED! EXPEEEEEEEEELLED!

They should put up a sign.

"Please stick around after the film and try to Learn about the actual science of evolution. We will have educators on hand to answer questions."

This is great.

And thanks for the backup on Pharyngula. It went from shame on the Museum, to shame on us. We'll do what we always do when the DI'ers come to town, regardless. We don't need any stinkin tough love.

The museum does not discriminate against recognized campus organizations based on their religious beliefs, political philosophy, scientific literacy, or any other factors.

This part is awesome!

That is just plan winsauce and awesomesauce. I just wish it was on a weekend, because I would so be there. I am a member of the Museum.

But they will still show the film. Not expelled.

@#5
Abbie was being sarcastic yo.

Do the kids these days still say "Buuuurrrrnnnn"?

If not, they really should.

:-)

I wish that they'd say that they respect the rights of people to hold religious beliefs, rather than saying that they respect the religious beliefs of all people.

The "scientific literacy" part brought a smile to my face as well. Awesome!

It's far too subtle, and far too passive. I know they're trying to be diplomatic, but someone has to be a bit louder.

They can't actually kick the bozos out, but they can carry out their expected mission of education and provide specific, informed rebuttals to whatever the creationists claim.

The museum has already had, or have already planned to have, presentations on archeology/molecular biology/a shitload of other topics. These presentations were scheduled long before we knew Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum and the band of Tweedle TARDS were coming to Oklahoma.

So, they could plan presentations which specifically address the TARDS claims, which comes off as BAAAAWing. When I talk about HIV evolution, I dont center my talk around Behe. I talk about it, then point out stupid things Behe has said at the end. Everyone in the audience has learned something, so they can laugh too. Behe has nothing to do with it-- hes just a passing joke for lulz. You can have presentations that directly address Creationist Claims without 'addressing Creationist Claims' as the focus of the talk. So the Darwin Year festivities already have that covered.

I think the statement is a lovely in that it is direct in its claims about evilution and Darwin, subtle (thus hysterical) in its attack, thus there is nothing in the statement that the DI/Creationists can run off crying about.

Shorter SNMONH statement: We dont have a problem with religion. But the guys at the DI are fucking IDiots, and weve got an entire museum here that shows you exactly why.

I want to know specifically what you want any of us to do, PZ, besides things they are already doing.

ERV: Good points. I wonder if PZ has organized opposition to creationist speakers on his own campus. He did say that they had creationists speak on their campus. If so, just what exactly did he do to counter the crap? There are lots of ideas circulating here at the moment, but it is not like OU has not effectively countered this stuff before. It is not appropriate to reveal our hand at this point in time. It is too bad that PZ can not see the flow of plans and ideas taking place, but some secrecy is necessary. PZ's suggestions are appreciated, but other than his influential and excellent blogging and other excellent actions against creationism, what direct experience has he had on the ground amidst the local battles? Hopefully, some of the planned actions will succeed.

I am not sure that the Museum Director could be louder, given the mission of the Museum and the broad spectrum of views both in the State and among the Museum donors and supporters. I would have worded the statement about acceptance of religious views somewhat differently. He is in a tough place in this most religious of places. The necesary rebuttals will occur and in more ways than the one PZ suggested so far.

They can't actually kick the bozos out, but they can carry out their expected mission of education and provide specific, informed rebuttals to whatever the creationists claim.

You mean something like this? SNOMNH was a major sponsor of the whole Darwin 2009 program at OU, and apparently have the audio of these talks available on their website. In the week before the DI nonsense, Elliott Sober will be presenting threetalks at part of Darwin 2009, including one entitled "Darwin and Intelligent Design". Less than two weeks after the DI show, they're starting a three-month exhibit on Darwin. All of this is well-advertised and will be very much "in the face" of anyone attending the DI show.

When it comes down to it, if they piss off the legislature (think Sally Kern and the like, think Jim Inhofe, though granted he has no direct input on the state budget), do they suddenly end up on the wrong end of budget cuts. And then they do no one any good.

I thought the comments from the museum director were pretty good, though the religion part could have been reworded. For Oklahoma, the statement is a rather big FU to the DI and others...you really have to live there to understand the fundie domination of the state. I got to see GW Bush speak at OSU (oh joy), it was the safest place for him to speak as it was only 1 of 2 states that the time where he had a positive approval rating.

I spent a couple of years in Oklahoma and was affiliated with the museum through a project collaboration. They do an outstanding job, it is really a first rate natural history museum. They certainly aren't going to make everyone in the state scientifically literate but I guarantee the museum has been hugely influential in making science and science education more visible and available in the state.

SNOMNH is an island of sanity in a sea of fundie whackaloons.

From 16: "SNOMNH is an island of sanity in a sea of fundie whackaloons."

DITTO !

"The museum does not support antiscientific views masquerading as science, such as those espoused by the Discovery Institute..." Ouch. That wasn't too subtle for me. I got it. Well done and well said.

Maybe they could temporarily modify the entrance to the theatre with velvet ropes or something, that forces the audience to walk by displays in the museum with big arrows pointing at signs and displays of transitional fossils and the like.

But actually the solution should be that the museum should be allowed control of everything that has their name, including the theatre. If it's just another university resource that they share a building with, then give it another name, not associated with the museum.

Given that the SNM has already hosted Eugenie Scott and quite a few other Darwinian-slanted presentations and then, not too long ago, Luskin and West, I'd say the museum has a history of being a good venue for this kind of debate. If I were them, I'd be glad for the publicity. Bring in only Darwinians and all the churchgoers but the nerdiest Christians (of which I'm a proud member) will be bored out of their skulls and won't come. And there's a lot of them. So bring in someone on "their side", you get more of them to come out. More recognition, more numbers, probably means more visitors thru the gates. It's good for everyone.
It's funny though that the museum felt the need to assuage the brittle consciences of the Darwinians - no, seriously, don't worry, we're on YOUR side. Really.
It's almost like the museum thought many Darwinians took it to be one of their prized swordfish, on the hook. Don't let that baby get away! She's a big one! No, they'd rather insult paying customers.

@Rhology

Substitute reality slanted for your darwin slanted and maybe you'll begin to realise the error in your thinking. It's never about authority. it's not a debate. You're tard canute.

I'm a couple hours away from OK city, so I don't think I'll be driving down for the speech. I'm trying to figure out a way to word this question to make it breif and to the point enough for some one to ask:

I'd like to ask them why they chose the specific site for the speech, and why not pick a generl auditorium or maybe one of the many large churches that might have more seating and cheaper rental (it would be great if you had figures proving that.).

I suspect their answer will be along the lines of saying 'because it's about science, not religion' claptrap they usually spit out. Then point out that every exhibit in the museum specifically disagrees with their assertions, and the exhibits themselves are evidence against it.

Then point out that they are only using the museum to give their lecture a veneer of sciencey-ness and authority. Ironically, an air of authority they would not get if they had their lecture in a church.

Actually, FastLane, Meyer and Behe were invited by a local church, but I've also been to a lecture from a member of Christian Science (which is neither), on the topic of Christian Science theology, at the SNM. I mention that b/c the speaker made no pretension to science; he was just an itinerant preacher basically.
They do all kinds of things down there, just like they said in their announcement - whoever rents it.

I would like to know why you'd think that museum exhibits should be some kind of slam-dunk question for them. That makes little sense.

"Maybe they could temporarily modify the entrance to the theatre with velvet ropes or something, that forces the audience to walk by displays in the museum with big arrows pointing at signs and displays of transitional fossils and the like."

To get to the Kerr Auditorium one does not go to the exhibits. What you propose is not possible given the museum's physical layout.

"But actually the solution should be that the museum should be allowed control of everything that has their name, including the theatre. If it's just another university resource that they share a building with, then give it another name, not associated with the museum."

But it is associated with the museum. It is owned and controlled by the museum. It is extensively used by the museum for their own programs. It is in their building. They pay for its upkeep. When one says where the event is at one will say "In the Sam Noble Oklahoma Museum of Natural History." What you propose simple will not work. It will not stop the creationists saying that their event is at the "museum."

It is university policies, state laws, and federal laws that require that the creationists be allowed to rent the auditorium. No name changes or anything else is going to change that.

And again, people with the knee-jerk reactions simply are not thinking this through. Pretend for a moment the laws, rules, and regulations involved did not exist. The creationists are not going to generate major news outside of the blogs over this event. If their rental was denied then a major news controversy would be generated. It would create a lot of local attention, the creationists would rent another local venue, and far more people would see it. Meanwhile they would use the denial as an example of Darwinian "repression." The whole affair will help them raise money, sell books, make contacts, get sympathy, etc.

MUSEUM TO OFFER AN EVENING OF FREE ADMISSION, LECTURE ON HISTORY OF LIFE ON EARTH IN HONOR OF CHARLES DARWIN
09-17-2009
CONTACT: Linda Coldwell (405) 325-0598, lcoldwell@ou.edu
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
NORMAN â As part of a University of Oklahoma campus-wide celebration of the 150th anniversary of the publishing of Charles Darwinâs On the Origin of Species, the Sam Noble Museum in Norman will be offering an evening of free museum admission from 6 to 11 p.m. Tuesday, Sept. 29. The museum also will feature a free public lecture by the museumâs curator of invertebrate paleontology, Stephen Westrop, titled âThe Cambrian Explosion and the Burgess Shale: No Dilemma for Darwin.â
The Cambrian Explosion was one of the most important episodes in the history of life. Over some 20 to 25 million years, beginning about 543 million years ago, life in the oceans diversified. Today, we find abundant fossils of hard-shelled animals of this age in many parts of the world. The famous Burgess Shale of western Canada formed after the Cambrian Explosion but its unusually preserved fossils give paleontologists a glimpse of a nearly complete Cambrian community. These extraordinary fossils also show the wide range of animals that must have evolved earlier in the Cambrian Period. In this presentation, Westrop takes a look at recent research that gives us a new understanding of this evolutionary "explosion" of ocean life.

The museumâs Paleozoic Gallery showcases the science behind this amazing diversity of life from Earthâs Cambrian Period. Highlights include fossils, models of many of the bizarre animals of the Burgess Shale, and animated features showing how these animals may have moved and hunted.

âWe invite everyone interested in an accurate description of how life developed over the last four billion years to come hear Dr. Westropâs lecture and visit our galleries,â said museum Director Michael A. Mares. âThese well-organized and scientifically accurate exhibits illustrate â through real specimens and scientific methods â the fact of evolution by natural selection as first described by Charles Darwin and continually supported by all branches of science ever since that time. Dr. Westrop is recognized internationally as an expert on the Cambrian Period, and his presentation will provide insight into the latest scientific research regarding the impact of this time period on the evolution of life on Earth. â

Steve Westrop has been the curator of invertebrate paleontology at the museum since 1998. His research focuses on the Cambrian System and its fossils, particularly trilobites. He was a member of an international team of geologists and paleontologists who established the current radiometric dating of the Cambrian Period, including the record of the Cambrian explosion. Westrop has published more than 50 papers in scientific journals on various aspects of the Cambrian, and serves as editor of the Journal of Paleontology, published by the Paleontological Society.

Since the beginning of 2009, the museum, in partnership with OU departments of Zoology, Botany and Microbiology, Anthropology, History of Science and the History of Science Collections of the OU Library, has presented more than 15 public education programs related to evolution. Many of these are currently available to download as podcasts through iTunes. Additional information about museum podcasts and newsfeeds is available online at www.snomnh.ou.edu/rss.

Many more Darwin programs are scheduled for the months ahead, including a seminar series called âIn Discussion with Darwin,â a lecture series, a family day featuring childrenâs book authors Carolyn Meyer and Anne Weaver, and âDarwin Remembers,â a one-man theatre performance. Mares encourages the public to take part in these programs, many of which are free, to educate themselves about the true nature of the science of evolutionary biology.

On October 10 the museum will open âDarwin at the Museum,â a special exhibition featuring a complete set of the first editions of Darwinâs books, provided by the OU Libraries History of Science Collections. This exhibition, which will include specimens from museum collections, will be on view through Jan. 18, 2010.

Additional information about programming at the museum is available online at www.snomnh.ou.edu/publicprograms. The museum is located on the OU Norman campus at Timberdell Road and Chautauqua Avenue. For more information, call (405) 325-4712.

------- End of forwarded message -------

Okay. So this thing doesn't deal with "unscientific" data eh? There is nothing more unscientific than the theory of a blob in space exploding and billions of years later amino acids appear from nowhere and form life which eventually magically turns into people. Now, that's a fairy tale if i ever heard one.

Billions of years?

The earth has only been here for less than 10,000 years. I hate to burst your bubble but you are wrong. If you can absolutely show me with no bias whatsoever how one animals such as a dinosaur (or dragon - people used to call them that)just so happened to shrink 20,000 times, grow feathers, learn to fly, chirp, and then end up on my kitche table deep fried and delicious? I would that explanation. The fact is that all animals were created. Birds are birds and dinosaurs are dinos. End of story. One did not magically transform into another by sheer peer pressure to do so.

Me thinks you all got brain damaged during the last Vietnam war protest/pot smoking contest/nutjob infiltration.

Speaking of Vietnam, we could have won that war if the communists/fruitcakes here would have let our soldiers do their job and kill the communists there and come home. But NOOOOOOOO! The little terdsmearers had to interfere and let the communists win. As a result over 2 million people died. Thank you kind tolerance peacefuol liberals. Through marxism/communism and abortion you people have killed over 70 milion people in the last 45 years. Thank you for your tolerance and peace. Over 52 million of those were innocwent unborn babies. While you all were protesting and lying about Vietnam babaies being killed, you were advocating for your own babaies to be killed through abortion. What the hell's the difference? More babaies have died from Roe v. Wade than from ever war combined that America has ever been in. Now who is the baby killers?

We claim 1 million or less through war.

Your number is 52 million in the us alone since 1973. Worldwide number including statistical unknowns count about 200 million. So much for tolerance, peace, and protesting baby killing.

So the next time you quackaroonies call someone a baby killer I hope you get you teeth punched out and agood beating. Anyone who is responsible for the deaths of 52 million American infanticides should has no room to call someone a baby killer. That's hypocrisy at it's finest hour.

As far as being expelled? You are expelled from heaven. Enjoy your eternal global warming. May you get the Adolf Hitler treatment in hell. If you don;t know what that is, it's a specially engineered gigantic pineapple shove upp your hole every hour for all eternity while you have to slurp doo doo from your worst hated person butthole. Enjoy it. I know I'll enjoy watching you.

Someone's claiming credits for one of Dumbski's courses, I see.

And upholding similar standards of scholarship and wit, to boot.

Snot has slurped too much snot.

The response to the DI film by Dr. Stephen Westrop (in the announcement at #25 will be 5to5:45 P.M. on 29 September. Westrop will provide the facts about the Cambrian, unlike to DI film. Those attending can hear REAL science about the Cambrian from a REAL invertebrate paleontologist, unlike the DI speakers who will accompany the film, neither of whom have any real training in the subject.

Shorter Sluper of Snot: "I find many scientific claims difficult to accept. People who accept those claims are bad."

Concern noted, slurper. You may return to whatever it was you were doing. The rest of us will carry on trying to cure cancer and AIDS 'n such.

Seems pretty obvious that Slurper is a bad caricature of a fundamentalist Christian troll.

I didn't take him seriously either.

Umm. Tommykey, was that in response to #31, and was its subtle ambiguity deliberate? Anyway, it made me smile, silently. Maybe I'll rholl over the floor later.

Irony meter broken by 31