See Red State, Blue State, Rich State, Poor State: Why Americans Vote the Way They Do, or, the author's weblog. Here are some myths and facts. It is interesting that when I tell both liberals and conservatives that Thomas Frank is full of crap there's a lot of disbelief and incredulity. One of the standard responses is that everyone knows that poor whites vote Republican on cultural issues, or that rich whites are elitists who lean Democratic due to the power of social liberalism. I suspect the strength of the meme is that the Thomas Frank argument is persuasive to both sides. On the Left it reinforces the idea that the country is with them on economics but is screwed by silly cultural issues. On the Right it solidifies the perception that the Left is the elite since the downscale voters are with them on the central cultural touchstones.
Too bad it's just full of crap. Dude is wrong. Of course, most people don't know crap, so crap × crap = literary gold!
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Everyone is talking about Frum today, including the post you linked to Where does Frank figure in this?
as people get richer they vote on cultural issues. but they don't vote in one direction. in the media centers (where frum lives, etc.) they tend to vote on liberal social issues. in much of the south they vote on conservative social issues. thomas frank is full of crap because it isn't the poor, but the rich, for whom cultural positions are the most salient and predictive variables in determining their political affinities.
I often get into arguments about the Religious Right, too. A lot of the conservatives Christians I meet are prosperous, educated, and middle class. They're more likely to have tech or practical educations than liberal arts / humanities educations, but the hillbilly caricature is far off the mark.
Yglesias had a post recently where he argued that the cultural divide is between rural / exurban well-off people who spent their money on hunting, fishing, Jet-skis, etc, and well-off people who spend their money on more yuppyish things.
Yglesias had a post recently where he argued that the cultural divide is between rural / exurban well-off people who spent their money on hunting, fishing, Jet-skis, etc, and well-off people who spend their money on more yuppyish things.
yeah, i saw that. i think that reflects some of reality. there is a whole sector of elite professionals who fit the frum caricature; but taht misses the people the midland, TX, etc. to some extent this might be a capital vs. professional class thing too. the latter have more education, the former more marginal income, but both are part of the "talented 10th."
For what it's worth, I'm on the left and I think he's full of crap.
For what it's worth, I'm on the left and I think he's full of crap.
as i said, i don't think this is a left-right issue. many people on the *right* think that it's cool that working class folk "cling to guns or religion."
How does this interact with race?
Yeah, George Bush may have got 60% of rich voters, but isn't that more or less his share of the white vote?
In the deep south white people vote for the Republicans regardless of anything at all, rich, overwhelming percentages vote for the Republicans.
Also, not a good picture of Bar Rafaeli today.
In the deep south white people vote for the Republicans regardless of anything at all, rich, overwhelming percentages vote for the Republicans.
in the south richitude is a predictor of voting republican for whites. since 90% of blacks vote dem, we're talking mostly whites here if we're considering variation is voting ;0)
The book's website says that there's a myth that the rich vote liberal -- my impression was that this myth was new, that until recently the myth was of super-rich Republicans.
But I just checked the NYT, and the phrase "limousine liberal" appears first in 1969, appearing regularly after that, although at low levels.
Wouldn't have guessed that at all, but then I ignore politics in my real life.
that until recently the myth was of super-rich Republicans.
yes. but the myth was true. is true. republicans have been the rich party since the new deal (before the new deal dems and repubs were historical legacies in various regions, though i think it can be argued that dems were moderately more progressive, but only cuz of particular regional groups).
"myth" was the wrong word for super-rich republicans -- I meant "popular conception," right or wrong.
In considerable parts of the South a lot of white people vote Democratic at the local level and Republican for President, with Congress somewhat in between but closer to the Presidency. People sometimes speak of four parties: Presidential R, Congressional R, PD, and CD. And the state legislatures ad a third level.
Perhaps the solution to the paradox is that -- all else being equal -- the more culturally conservative person is less likely to need the kind of government assistance that the Democrats stand for.
Take two identical twin females of average intelligence and energy level ethic raised in the same household. One converts to, say, Mormonism at age 18 and the other one goes through life without much religion. Which one is more likely to need, say, Food Stamps at some point in her life?
But this highly plausible connection is hard to tease out of the data because all else is very seldom equal.
In considerable parts of the South a lot of white people vote Democratic at the local level and Republican for President, with Congress somewhat in between but closer to the Presidency. People sometimes speak of four parties: Presidential R, Congressional R, PD, and CD. And the state legislatures ad a third level.
That reminds me of my beloved Southern grandma, a staunch Southern Baptist, DAR-type lady, who was what she called a "yaller-dawg Democrat" (meaning she'd vote for a yaller dawg, providin' he was a Democrat, of course!) I'm pretty sure she always voted Republican for presidential elections, though. I think the local Democrats tended to be old-fashioned Dixiecrats, but the national-level ones were too liberal for her tastes.
What about the phrase "champagne communist"?