Vice President Dick Cheney was recently invited to be the commencement speaker at Brigham Young University, but this invitation has triggered a protest at the ultra-conservative Mormon university. It seems that some of the faculty and students -- who are devoutly Republican -- are offended by Cheney's lack of integrity and character, and his generally scummy behavior. For example, several students mentioned that they were appalled by Cheney's use of an expletive on the Senate floor in a June 2004 exchange with Senator Patrick Leahy, a Democrat from Vermont.
"The problem is this is a morally dubious man," said Andrew Christensen, a 22-year-old Republican from Salt Lake City. "It's challenging the morality and integrity of this institution."
Students and faculty at Brigham Young -- a private university sponsored by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints -- are expected to adhere to an honor code, which emphasizes "being honest, living a chaste and virtuous life, abstaining from alcohol and tobacco, using clean language" and following church doctrines. They are also required to follow strict modesty guidelines for grooming and attire.
In the two weeks since the university announced that Mr. Cheney would be the speaker at the commencement on April 26, hundreds of students have attended respectful and quiet campus demonstrations about his presence, and some 3,600 students and alumni had signed petitions by Tuesday afternoon seeking a "more appropriate" replacement speaker. [story].
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I fear that this brand of post is just the sort of thing that we secular skeptics should be avoiding if we are ever to make headway with people of faith.
I'm no fan of Mormonism, but it's simply not fair to imply that they are all short on moral stature. Sure they have some beliefs we consider bizarre and irrational, but there's nothing in their religion that prevents them from seeing Cheney and his ilk for what they are.
i get your point, although i actually meant that republicans tend to forgive their own for their misbehaviors even while they find fault with democrats who engage in the same misbehaviors. mormons, as a group, tend to be republican, yet even they are disturbed by cheney's bad behavior and lack of integrity, so therefore cheney must be really bad.
now how to i squeeze all that into a catchy title?
My, aren't we concerned?
Nowhere does Grrl or the excerpt she quoted imply that Mormons are somehow lacking in moral standards. Indeed, the very fact of the story itself -- that they rejected Dick Cheney on moral ground -- suggests otherwise. The irony isn't "Dick Cheney too immoral for even those unscrupulous Mormon bastards", it's "Dick Cheney too immoral even for his ideological and political base". The title is a bit unclear on that, maybe, but even then Grrl's post itself doesn't besmirch Mormons in anyway.
Besides, frack 'em if they can't take a joke.
Joshua: No, actually, the title of the post does not say that Cheney is too unscrupulous for base Republicans; it quite clearly implies that Mormons are among those least likely to be upset by scumminess.
And GrrlScientist: my problem is that those kind of titles (and posts) will be picked on my Mormons as evidence that atheists and our ilk are bigoted. We don't need that.
Headline writing is an art. Not everyone can come up with a succinct and witty one for each post. But we should be careful not to offend needlessly. And when we do offend, provide evidence to back it up.
I took the headline very much as GrrlScientist describes her intent: that Mormons, currently a staunch republican 'base', felt that Dick Cheney - a person whose conservatism they could be expected to uncritically support - was too immoral for their reflexive support of a 'fellow conservative' to enable them to overlook his immorality. The headline, and the article that GrrlScientist refers to, suggests to me that I - a very liberal atheist, have something in common with conservative Mormons... I can't speak to how various Mormons would perceive the headline (although I assume a variety of reactions), but a headline that prompts me to see conservative Mormons as a possible ally seems to me to be a headline that helps heal the divide between the theistic and the atheistic.
Right on, Mormons. Although I don't subscribe to any particular religion, I do believe in God, and I think people of faith should be the most offended of all by the antics and posturing of Bush and Co. An individual's relationship with God is just about the most personal thing there is. That's why I don't go to church, and why I would never ask someone to pray for me. Perhaps my views are minority views, but I think the way they hide behind God and faith while starting wars and screwing over the poor is the worst type of blasphemy there is.
I thank James for his concern. However, I understood the title as GrrlScientist explained. And I just checked with my wife, and she did too. I have no idea whether we are representative, but I think most politically-conscious Mormons would get it. After all, whatever people may think of Mormons, morally deficient is not a common complaint, fortunately.
Cheney must be a sort of political genius -- in a very negative way -- to alientate so many people who naturally want to find something good about him.
Just because a few students say one thing.
You use the word MORMONS, as if we all agree politically.
Let the political. views of the specific lds members not be grouped together.Thats absurd.
I support Romney and Cheney.
B jennings
I meant to say.. should not be grouped together.That's like saying Ive talked to millions of mormons about this.
B jennings
Apropos of alienation of nearly the entire nation by W and Dick, as well as the peculiar politics of the intermountain West, check out this map.
Mormons are not scummy. They are some of the cleanest, nicest people in the world. We scientists should be careful not to offend potential allies, and I think the title of this post was ambiguous--I'm not sure whether the author meant it or not, but my initial understanding was that it was calling mormons scummy, but Dick was just worse.
Anyway, props to the Mormons who stood up for what they believe, who stood for integrity and right. Keep it up.
Alan