Antivaccinationists against the HPV vaccine, Round 5,000

Whenever I take a day off from blogging, as I did yesterday because I was too busy going out with my wife on Wednesday night to celebrate my birthday, I not infrequently find an embarrassment of riches to blog about the next day. Sometimes it's downright difficult to decide what to write about. So it was as I sat down last night to do a bit of blogging. I briefly considered writing about Suzanne Somers leaping into the fray to defend Stanislaw Burzynski, and maybe I still will. On the other hand, it's standard boilerplate Burzynski apologetics, not even very interesting; so maybe I won't. There were others, including a news story about something going on in my very own home town, which I'll probably wait on until next week. Then I was made aware by some Facebook friends of an anti-Gardasil "study" going around the antivaccine crankosphere right now that claims that Gardasil induces ovarian failure and infertility, and I knew I had to perform yet another public service combatting bad studies promoting antivaccine pseudoscience.

The last time I dealt with this topic was last fall, when a highly dubious case report of a 16 year old girl who developed ovarian failure. Of course, to the antivaccinationists it just had to be Gardasil. It just had to be. Because vaccines. It almost certainly wasn't, but that didn't stop the antivaccine contingent from flogging the case report as being slam dunk evidence for a link between the HPV vaccine and premature ovarian failure. Unfortunately, antivaccinationists are still flogging this study. It even showed up earlier this week on NaturalNews.com as a "newly published study" even though it was published last October. As "evidence" that the HPV vaccine causes premature ovarian failure, this case report was thin gruel indeed. The girl didn't start to have irregular menses until five months after her last dose of Gardasil and didn't stop menstruating altogether until nearly a year later.

This next "study," by Serena Colafrancesco and investigators at the Zabludowicz Center for Autoimmune Diseases Sheba Medical Center, Tel-Hashomer, Israel and the Rheumatology Unit, Department of Internal Medicine and Medical Specialities, Sapienza University of Rome, Rome, Italy and entitled Human Papilloma Virus Vaccine and Primary Ovarian Failure: Another Facet of the Autoimmune/Inflammatory Syndrome Induced by Adjuvants is just more of the same. Instead of one weak case study, we have three weak case studies put together to make a case series. As we say in the biz, the plural of "anecdote" is not "data," and this paper is a perfect example of this. Moreover, one of our favorite new antivaccine "researchers" is involved in this paper, a veritable "rising star" of the antivaccine movement, Lucija Tomljenovic. When last we saw her, she was twisting and distorting other case reports to make it look as though Gardasil was responsible for two deaths when it almost certainly wasn't. In fact, when I see Tomljenovic's name on a paper, I know that the relationship between the reported findings (which will always claim that vaccines cause horrible consequences) and reality will be related only by coincidence, if even that.

Let's look at the cases. I'll briefly comment on each one and then comment on all three of them together in the more lengthy, detailed way that you know and love.

Here's case #1:

A young previously healthy girl received three administrations of the quadrivalent HPV vaccine (T0, T1 after 4 months, T2 after 9 months) when she was 14 years old. Six months before the first injection, the patient had menarche. Her psycho-physical and sexual development were normal except that at the time she received the first HPV vaccine dose, she was complaining of irregular periods (every 2 months). After the first vaccination, the patient immediately started to complain of burning and heavy sensation in the injected arm, followed by skin rash and fever. Nausea and stomach aches lasted for 2 days after the injection, while in the subsequent 2 weeks, she further complained of cramping and headache. At the time of the second vaccine administration, she reported similar injection site related symptoms, accompanied by sleep disturbances, such as insomnia and night sweats. At the time of the third injection, the patient continued to experience the same symptoms: burning, pain and heavy sensation in the injected arm, headache and cramping. Insomnia associated with night sweats persisted and she started complaining of arthralgia, anxiety and depression. The patient reported that her last period occurred shortly after the last injection of the HPV vaccine. The hormonal screening showed the presence of increased follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) and luteinizing hormone (LH) associated with very low levels of estradiol. Beta human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) tested negative excluding pregnancy. The karyotype study was 46 XX, while molecular studies ruled out Fragile X syndrome and mutated follicle-stimulating hormone receptor (FSHR) gene. A pelvic ultrasound did not show any abnormality. According to these clinical and serological findings, POF diagnosis was determined. Even though the patient started therapy with medroxyprogesterone to stimulate bleeding, no improvement occurred and she continued to experience abnormal vaginal bleeding, night sweats, hot flashes and sleep disturbances.

Note that at the time this patient received her first dose in the three dose series of Gardasil she was already complaining of irregular periods. This strongly suggests that, whatever was going on to cause her difficulties was going on when she started her first dose of Gardasil. Overall, this is pretty thin gruel. So let's look at the second case:

This patient (the younger sister of the above-mentioned case) received three administrations of the quadrivalent HPV vaccine at the age of 13 under the same protocol as her sister. At that time, she had normal growth and sexual development. The patient complained, 10 days after the first injection, of general symptoms such as depression and sleep disturbances. She also experienced episodes of lightheadedness and tremulousness, anxiety, panic attacks and difficulties in focusing/concentrating in her school work. She had menarche at the age of 15 years, followed by another period 1 month later and none thereafter. Laboratory analysis showed high serum levels of FSH and LH with undetectable estradiol. The genetic test for Turner's syndrome, Fragile X syndrome and FSHR gene was performed and resulted negative. Interestingly, the patient tested positive for antiovarian antibodies. She underwent a pelvic ultrasound without an evidence of abnormalities. In the light of these findings, a diagnosis of POF was determined and the patient was treated with several different hormonal replacement therapies with a poor therapeutic response.

There are multiple interesting things about this case. First, this is the sister of the girl who was case #1. Now, I don't know about you, but if I were to see two examples of premature ovarian failure (POF) in two sisters, I'd wonder if there were some sort of genetic predisposition. There is, after all, a variant of POF that is familial. That the most common genetic cause was ruled out doesn't mean that there can't be others. As I've pointed out before, the vast majority of causes of ovarian failure before the age of 40 are idiopathic, and we don't know all the potential genetic causes. The second thing about this case that stands out is that she had her series of Gardasil injections at age 13 and then had menarche (the onset of menstruation, for you non-medical types out there) at the late end of the normal range of ages for menarche. She only had two periods, though, and then no more. This was roughly two years later, but it had to be the Gardasil that caused it! In other words, this case is, if anything, even less convincing than the first case.

So let's see if the third case is any more convincing:

The patient received the quadrivalent HPV vaccine in three administrations (T0, T1 after 2 months, T2 after 4 months) at the age of 21 years. Menarche occurred when she was 13 years old with normal monthly periods and a flow of 5–7 days, with mild cramps. A normal sexual development was reported. Few months after the last injection of HPV vaccine, she started complaining of irregular menses (off by 1–2 weeks) without an increase in bleeding or pain. The irregular periods worsened and the patient reported on menstruations every 3 months with bleeding only for 2 days. For this reason, she started drospirenone/ethinyl estradiol. Nonetheless, no improvement occurred and after discontinuation of therapy, at the age of 23 years, she complained of amenorrhoea. The laboratory tests showed the presence of very low levels of estradiol and increased FSH and LH. Testosterone, cortisol and prolactin serum level were found normal. Although the thyroid hormones were also in the normal range, the patients had positive antithyroid peroxidise (TPO) antibodies (134 IU/mL, n.v. 0–34). The karyotype evaluation and the search for Fragile X syndrome displayed no aberrations. A transvaginal and pelvic ultrasound did not reveal any abnormality. According to these findings and clinical features, a diagnosis of POF was determined. Thus, a therapy with medroxyprogesterone and estradiol was attempted, however, it did not improve her clinical condition.

Here we go again. It's the same thing. Problems with menstruation occur a "few months" after the last injection of Gardasil and continued a couple of years before amenorrhoea occurred.

So what we have are three females, two of them teens and one of them a young woman, with primary ovarian failure. All of them have the key elements of POF, namely amenorrhea, low estrogen levels, and high gonadotropin (FSH and LH) levels. Its incidence is generally around one in a thousand before the age of 30. That's rare, but not so rare that it's really hard to find cases.

So how do the authors link these three cases, the first two of which look like familial idiopathic POF and the last of which looks like simple idiopathic POF? They invoke an entity called ASIA (Autoimmune/Inflammatory Syndrome Induced by Adjuvants). From what I've been able to tell, ASIA is basically a made-up syndrome that isn't generally accepted. The authors of this article describe it as group of diseases that include "post-vaccination phenomena," silicone implant–induced autoimmunity, Gulf War syndrome, macrophagic myofasciitis with chronic fatigue syndrome, and the sick-building syndrome. Note that all of these, with the exception of chronic fatigue syndrome, are highly dubious entities whose existence as distinct clinical syndromes is questionable at best. Even more dubious are the clinical criteria, four major and four minor, that are used to "diagnose" ASIA. The idea is that either two major criteria or one major and two minor criteria are required for a diagnosis of ASIA. Out of curiosity, I went back to what appears to be the original article in which ASIA was defined by Yehuda Shoenfeld, who is known for testifying for "vaccine injury" victims and running a journal sympathetic to antivaccine views, even publishing works by quacks like Mark and David Geier. The "syndrome" appears to have been made up of whole cloth based on unfounded assumptions. He's also been known to speak at antivaccine conferences and "vetted" the antivaccine propaganda movie The Greater Good for "accuracy," and the movie's producer promotes ASIA.

If you look at how ASIA is defined, it's so vague that almost any immune abnormality can be so classified, as long as somewhere, somehow, the patient had exposure to an adjuvant, in this case in the form of the adjuvant used in Gardasil, which is amorphous aluminum hydroxyphosphate sulfate), and that's just how these authors do it. No evidence is presented, and they labor mightily to turn three anecdotes into "data." Basically, their "reasoning" (such as it is) boils down to this. Three females developed POF sometime within several months to a couple of years of receiving Gardasil. Two of them had autoantibodies, but not the same autoantibodies. Therefore, Gardasil must have caused their ovarian failure through ASIA. Yes, their arguments are just that bad.

There’s almost no limit to the ridiculousness to which antivaccinationists will descend to attack Gardasil. A favorite tactic is to link it with infertility and POF. Why that particular entity? I think I know. Gardasil protects against a sexually transmitted disease, HPV. So giving Gardasil lets sluts have sex. So there must be consequences related to sex, and those consequences are infertility. I could be wrong, but aks yourself: Why the obsession with infertility related to Gardasil in the absence of any even remotely compelling evidence?

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As long as they can make people afraid, they can control them.

It's just that simple, IMO.

Honestly, even if it did cause infertility, it would have to cause *more infertility than HPV* in order to not be worth it anyway, wouldn't it?

Well - i had a flu jab last winter and then headaches 3 months later. Of course they are linked! The intervening job insecurity & stress had nothing to do with it.

FUD continues.

By Baldranger (not verified) on 08 Aug 2013 #permalink

The PI for gardasil (http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/g/gardasil/gardasil_pi.pdf) has about 10,000 women in the gardasil group and about 10,000 women in the placebo group. Given that the study had to track them through all 3 doses and beyond (since you have to show the vaccinated group had lower incidence of contracting HPV than the placebo group), something like POF, that occurs at 1 in 1,000, should have shown in the data if there was really any relationship, There is no mention of POF or menstrual irregularities in the PI, and that includes Table 9, which covers incident conditions potentially indicative of a systemic autoimmune disorder (which, as Orac notes POF is not). I would think the sample sizes here are adequate, but it's late and there are better statisticians who maybe could tell me if I'm making sense.

By Chris Hickie (not verified) on 08 Aug 2013 #permalink

There you go bringing MATH onto the table, Chris!

I'm supportive of vaccine programmes in general, but will claim ignorance on the details of HPV vaccine. It has always interested me that one of the researchers of Phase II & III trials has (seemingly) spoken out against the benefits of the programme. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500690_162-5253431.html#postComments

If any of the more learned posters have any info on Dr Diane Harper and her comments on Gardisal I'd be very interested in reading more on it.

The anti-vax brigade have become the boy who cried wolf of the 21st century, jumping on every scrap of info and distorting it to suit their agenda. But if a wolf ever did come along would we be so entrenched that we won't see it.

"But if a wolf ever did come along would we be so entrenched that we won’t see it."

Sure we would. New drugs are rejected all the time (seen the percentage of those that make it?), and old ones are studied again if there are adverse reports - even the made-up nonsense of Wakefraud resulted in dozens of new studies and millions spent. Or wasted, more like.

Just like with calling the fire brigade, even the crank calls get checked out. The difference is nobody carries on claiming the fire is real, yet somehow smokeless and undetectable - and the dastardly firemen are working for Big Reconstruction...

By Mark McAndrew (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

How many ladies have POF who haven't had the vaccine? Do these folks have any answer for that?

A little off topic, but very noteworthy (and also evidence that vaccines don't just get thrown together and rubber stamped by government:)--a hard fought advance in a malaria vaccine (http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/08/health/malaria-vaccine/index.html). Yes, it is an intravenously given vaccine and it needed 5 doses, but this is where a whole lot of very smart scientist will now work hard to make it easier to give.

By Chris Hickie (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

Thanks Mark - makes sense and it gives me a new analogy to add place my quiver of argument winning truth arrows.

Darwy - I think that article shows how the anti-vaccine crew hijacked her point of view and literally put words in her mouth - however what of her claims that Gardisal is over-marketed and has limited efficacy? Is it worth having the cost and risk (no matter how slight) of having a medical intervention to a particular demographic if the benefits are marginal at best.

"Tomljenovic L, Shoenfeld Y" are the last two authors.

Tomljenovic (and shaw) organized the Jamaica "vaccine safety" conference. Aside from Andy Wakefield as an honored guest, the speaker list included Shoenfeld.

Let me guess, this study received funding from the Dwoskin foundation? (Claire Dwoskin being the deep pockets behind the Jamaica junket)

By I. Rony Meter (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

ob1,

however what of her claims that Gardisal is over-marketed and has limited efficacy?

I don't know if you can really "over-market" a life-saving product that is so safe and effective. Harper's statements about the unknown duration of HPV vaccine efficacy were made 4 years ago. All the indications since are that Gardasil's efficacy will be long-lived, and we can expect HPV vaccines to be developed over time to cover other strains.

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

This study is a textbook example of post hoc ergo propter hoc. I'm not seeing a plausible causal mechanism here.

I am reminded of the classic humorous lists of what people mean when they use certain phrases in papers: "In my experience" means it happened once. "In case after case" means it happened twice. "In a series of cases" means it happened three times. The last fits this study to a T.

By Eric Lund (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

Khani @2: Your math's not quite right. Not every non-vaxed female will get HPV. Some HPV strains vaxed against might be better than just the vax at causing troubles though, and might more than make up for that.

Earlier in the week another HPV story (SBM, Hall) pointed me to Natural News article and though we should all be unshockable by now, I was shocked how they cry wolf with astonishing frequency, and breadth (crying wolf, bear, lion, tiger, etc). It burned. I'm biased: Head+Neck cancers anger me.

About overmarketing: the cost/benefit is tricky to compute, and you can tweak the benefit estimates to make it close to being too pricy. (For example, assume nearly all cervical cancers will be caught early via pap smear in your country, or forget about men altogether.) I know I wish it were cheaper, so that "worth it" would be more obvious.

How does a computer celebrate his birthday anyway? New updates? Well, best wishes to our most illustrious and esteemed host.

At any rate, I did know someone who had POV long ago: I attended school with S. who was brilliant and talented- we didn't communicate for about 10 years ( when I was out and about getting educated in various locales): she reported that her periods just stopped at age 18.

She wasn't terribly upset about this and celebrated the Last of the Curse Day each year with a Bloody Mary cocktail. She noted that family members ( less sophisticated than she) attributed her condition to her being tall or smart ( it they had knew she was bi, they'd probably have put that first on the list of contibuting variables).

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

I think Orac gets it right:
parents fear that licentiousness will result ( perish the thought, even) for GIRLS
( antivax fears: boys will be intellectually "damaged" by vaccines and girls will be slutified- as though vaccines will 'steal' their most valued attributes respectively,.hmmm?.).

Obviously some parents can't imagine themselves in adolescents' position OR even remember back to their own youth ( when vaccines weren't necessary for launching teenage experimentation with sexuality).

Seriously, the 1970s weren't exactly staid as I recall AND working with youngsters in the 1980s or adults in more precarious situations in the 1990s- abstinence as a lifestyle was not a concept that I ran into frequenty except when watching conservative politicians speak on television.

The vaccine for BOYS wakens another taboo that surrounds their greatest fears:
there are gay youth and they experiment just like their straight counterparts do
AND they, despite oorientation, do it at ages much earlier than their parents would like to believe ( or recall from decades ago when they were the same age).

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

On a lighter note:
today Mike Adams discusses the fact that dolphins develop complex communication skills because they are too smart to vaccinate their bebes/ feed them GMOs and give them the autism!
I swear I didn't make up that up.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

@Denice Walter

today Mike Adams discusses the fact that dolphins develop complex communication skills because they are too smart to vaccinate their bebes/ feed them GMOs and give them the autism!

Unlike humans, who are still stuck in simplistic communication modes like grunts and vague gestures.

Those opposable thumbs cause us nothing but trouble.

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

@Krebiozen

And those of us with 'hitchhiker's thumb' have an unfair advantage in thumb wars!

@Darwy
You never see dolphins hitchhiking - that's because they are too intelligent to use high fructose corn syrup.

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

@Krebiozen

But they get more mercury when they eat tuna, anyway!

@Darwy,
That's the safe and natural methylmercury, not the deadly ethylmercury you find in vaccines.

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

I should make it clear my last comment is a joke, lest any passerby take it seriously. Methylmercury is more toxic to humans than ethymercury by most measures, though neither are toxic in the minuscule amounts that have ever been present in vaccines.

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

@Krebiozen

Oh, well then THAT"S ok!

@Denise:

Mike Adams. The gift that keeps on giving.

@Eric Lund,
Ah, Douglas Adams (no relation). The gift that really does keep on giving.

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

AdamG,
I watched Dara O'Briain's Science Club last night, and they has a piece about genetically engineered mosquitoes that are being used to fight dengue fever. They breed male mosquitoes that have offspring that can't survive, release them in a dengue fever area and they seek out all the females in the area thus reducing the population - very clever.

They are now working on using the same trick with Anopheles mosquitoes.

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

dolphins develop complex communication skills because they are too smart to vaccinate

You can tell it's really a complex mode of communication because it is beyond the capacity of our puny vaccine-damaged brains to detect it.

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

Beneath the superficial risibility of Mike's article(s) underlies a more disturbing, perhaps misanthropic, deeper structure:
he casts aspersion upon the AVERAGE person's eating habits, use of vaccines and respect for SBM: indeed, hinting that only the best and brightest are intelligent enough to follow his advice and emulate his lifestyle.

Read carefully, brother and sister minions, do you hear the same barely concealed disdain for MOST people that I do? And they call us *elitists*!

Woo-meister par excellence Null estimates that "95%" of people are not perceptive enough and do not possess enough character to follow his regimes, protocols or educational programming.
Most just give up and are again quickly seduced by low quality foods, relationships, entertainment and ways of life.
Yes, he is surrounded by these toxic and inferior beings.

Both of these creatures also maintain that they are amongst the FEW able to peer beyond the veil that obscures the true nature of reality, uncovering conspiracy and intrigue everywhere they look, sculduggery that even the most respected investigators fail to suspect.
They understand Science and Spirit better than anyone. Respect for "experts" is merely a cult they say.

Alt med and woo- including anti-vax- revolve upon a turntable of elitism: they always *know better* and invoke the same response in their crowd ( see AoA and TMR).

Some of us are lucky enough ( have worked hard enough, been encouraged enough) to have received first rate educations:
it's not a secret society that admits only the elite but is open access to anyone willing to do the work and continue their effort over their lifespan-
it's not just the degrees acquired ( although they mean something)- it's what you know and how you think.

Many people without access to higher education formally can still learn and access the highest echelons of research and theoretical considerations- despite their age or background.
Woo-meisters sense the need that adults have to learn and improve their lives and usurp authority to educate people who often- at least to me- have greater native gifts than they themselves.
In short, MIkey's audience may have more smarts than Mikey-although they'r never guess it.

I wish we could get that across to them.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

Many felicitations to our resident plexiglas box of blinking lights for starting another orbit of Sol!

*raising a tall glass of dihydrogen monoxide* : - )

By Scottynuke (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

They are now working on using the same trick with Anopheles mosquitoes.

Obviously aliens are using the same trick with Homo sapiens, hence the epidemic of vaccine-induced ovarian failure.
Or have I said too much?

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

@Krebiozen

I watched Dara O’Briain’s Science Club last night, and they has a piece about genetically engineered mosquitoes that are being used to fight dengue fever. They breed male mosquitoes that have offspring that can’t survive, release them in a dengue fever area and they seek out all the females in the area thus reducing the population – very clever.

IIRC, the same sterile male technique was used, along with pesticides, to eliminate malarial mosquitoes from the southern United States.

I wish someone would engineer the danged mosquitos that come with the monsoon in Tucson not to bite people, esp me.

By Chris Hickie (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

Todd W.,

IIRC, the same sterile male technique was used, along with pesticides, to eliminate malarial mosquitoes from the southern United States.

I think you're correct, but those were spermless mosquitoes. The difference, I think, is that these males aren't spermless, they do impregnate the females but the offspring can't survive in the wild without tetracycline. In the lab they add tetracycline to the water the larvae live in, thus allowing them to survive. The more females impregnated by these males, the fewer can be impregnated by wild males.

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

It's weird that of mosquitoes have sperm and get pregnant. Ain't nature wonderful?

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

I too have discovered a clinical entity. Here's the story: at age 55 I had my first injection of Pneumovax. A brief six years earlier I had my first migraine. The only possible explanation for this frightening correlation is that I was a victim of APVAIIS - Anticipatory Pre-Vaccine Auto-Immune Inflammatory Syndrome. I am going to proclaim this finding to the antivax community, which will no doubt lionize me for at last providing the mechanism by which all dis-ease is caused by vaccines, even ones no one has had yet.

By Old Rockin' Dave (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

Denice: "(Adams) casts aspersion upon the AVERAGE person’s eating habits, use of vaccines and respect for SBM: indeed, hinting that only the best and brightest are intelligent enough to follow his advice and emulate his lifestyle."

"Read carefully, brother and sister minions, do you hear the same barely concealed disdain for MOST people that I do? And they call us *elitists*!"

Similar arrogance is displayed by defenders of dangerous "nutritional supplements", who argue that only those people who are too stupid to take them properly get hurt. Those whose lives are ruled by outlandish conspiracy theories look down on the sheeple who lack the intelligence to recognize who's pulling the strings. And there are of course many antivaxers whose immune systems are so very superior, they do not need vaccines like the disease-prone common herd.

Contempt for the unenlightened masses is a defining characteristic of the wooist.

By Dangerous Bacon (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

I have no idea what "that of mosquitoes" means. It's been a long week.

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

@Chris Hickie,
Wow. I'm convinced that sooner or later humans will evolve sperm that can fertilize an egg along fiber optic cables, and eventually via wi-fi. Already impregnation no longer requires either party to even glance up from their mobile devices, or so it seems.

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

@ Dr Chris:

I accompanied someone to a sub-tropical sinkho-, i mean, *paradise*- for his work:
as we explored a lush and shady "nature walk* created exclusively for tourists, I was suddenly attacked by a massive horde of fiercely biting mosquitos and I started screaming as I beat a hasty retreat-
this must have confused the others UNTIL, a minute or two later, they ALL started screaming and running away from that area.

Later my companion said, "We didn't understand why you acted like that... until ..."
Right. They went for me first. They always do.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

@Denice

I'm a huge fan of DEET and permethrin. Then again, I grew up front and center in the middle of Lyme disease central.

Anything that kept those little bastiches away from me and my family - it was ALL GOOD.

I did some fieldwork out at one of the peat bogs north of the city here - and out of the dozen of us present, only I had thought to bring bug repellent. After 8 hours in the fen, the others looked like they had measles, they had so many spots.

I had little sympathy, because I'd offered my bug repellent. They'd declined.

@Denice,

They went for me first. They always do.

I believe eating a diet containing large amounts of cumin helps repel the little buggers, though I'm one of the lucky ones they don't like quite as much.

My worst encounter with mosquitoes was during a very low budget sojourn in India. I was staying in a very cheap hotel in Rajasthan, next to a wildlife reserve that had large amounts of standing water which bred hordes of enormous vicious mosquitoes.

The dormitory (low budget, remember) we stayed in was equipped with screens, but might as well not have been since they were full of holes. You could barely see across the room for mosquitoes, and conversation was difficult over the constant deafening high pitched noise (I exaggerate a little perhaps).

A frenzied swatting frenzy by a number of us in the bathroom, whose fluorescent lights appeared to attract them in larger numbers, left the walls scarlet with human blood. It was satisfying but had no noticeable effect on the numbers.

By the morning my traveling companions were almost unrecognizable, with literally hundreds of bites, and I swear they looked anemic, while I was afflicted with a mere dozen or so swollen itchy lumps each about the size of a fist. Malaria or not, a mosquito net is worth packing for any trip to such places, especially if money is in short supply.

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

The HPV vaccine is dangerous and useless. If people would not fornicate, the HPV vaccine would not be necessary. another disease could be prevented by society refusing to give in to the sins of the world. The HPV vaccine has maimed and killed alot of girls, yet the mainstream media covers it up becuase sex sin is too fun to give up.

I believe eating a diet containing large amounts of cumin helps repel the little buggers,

Is there no rationalisation to which curry fans will not stoop, in order to continue their addiction?

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

@ Darwy:

I don't relish coating myself in ((shudder)) chemicals which make my skin crawl... but I have done so.
They also say to not wear scent. That's difficult for me.

(btw- do you know anything about peat bog corpses? There's a great story about Freud's rx to them told by Jung in his auto-bio).

@ Kreb:

Right. India is known for this: one of the reasons I've stayed away despite my great interest in many facets of life/ art/ culture on the subcontinent. Eating curries has never kept the bugs off me: I am a delicacy to them.

Despite having been in areas which have mosquito-borne illness, I haven't ever been ill... I think. I once had a fever several days after getting a few dozen bites but it wasn't enough to see a doctor about. I have had bites swell enough to be disconcerting to me.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

Why the obsession with infertility related to Gardasil in the absence of any even remotely compelling evidence?

Well note the two places: Isreal and Italy. Isreal's leaning more and more fundamentalist, and Italy isn't too far removed in mindset from the years of the Inquisition. Both are obsessed with removing 50% of the population from public life.
Based on that, it isn't too surprising that the governments (or the Vatican) would pressure universities to put incompetent scientists onto teams to rubberstamp their 'findings' and add a nice scientific gloss.

Larry: I hope you enjoy life in your closet.

By Politicalguineapig (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

@larry

[citation needed]

But if it's all due to the adjuvants (ASIA), how is it that only the HPV vaccine causes POF? What about all those other vaccines that those girls received? There's some muddy thinking going on here, no surprise.

Based on that, it isn’t too surprising that the governments (or the Vatican) would pressure universities to put incompetent scientists onto teams

No, you can't blame the Israeli govt. for whatever comes out of the Zabludowicz Center for Autoimmune Diseases; it was set up and funded by a UK/ Finnish entrepreneur to pursue his particular obsessions. Presumably it was Poju Zabludowicz's decision to put Yehuda Shoenfeld in charge of the place, as a pulpit from which to preach the anti-vaccine gospel

And to be fair to Schoenfeld and his fellow-loons (Agmon-Levin is a common co-author), they're not *entirely* fixated on HPV vaccines. They also blame Hep-B vaccine for causing ASIA.

No-one will be surprised to learn that Chronic Fatigue Syndrome is another manifestation of ASIA, i.e. another form of vaccine injury. And Guillain-Barré syndrome.

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

Yehuda Shoenfeld, who is known for testifying for “vaccine injury” victims and running a journal sympathetic to antivaccine views

I advise readers to follow Orac's link there. It leads to e-mail exchanges in which Schoenfeld advises the editorial board of his journal to ignore the courteously-worded queries from Katherine Seidel, because she is only a woman, and therefore vexatious and obsessive.

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

@Denice

It's a risk/reward scenario. I hate the incessant scratching, pain, swelling, etc associated with mosquito bites - as well as the pain trying to remove embedded ticks, so I opt for 'better living through chemistry."

There's been some findings in the peat up where I was working, but not the specific area I was doing fieldwork.

On a side note, trying to dig a soil pit in a peat bog is very, very messy. It was also very, very fun (although difficult to climb out of, given the swampiness of it) We had to dig quite a few of them to find one which gave an excellent soil profie for analysis.

Just presume that everything is autoimmune until proven otherwise.

So to sum up Schoenfeld's position:
(1) We are spotting new autoimmune conditions because we have become more aware of their existence.
(2) Most autoimmune conditions are "orphan diseases, [...] afflicting too few patients to excite the financial limb of pharmaceutical companies".
(3) No, wait, autoimmune conditions are actually far more common than they used to be, a veritable epidemic.
(4) It is all the fault of vaccines.
(5) Speaking as an autoimmune researcher, health systems should definitely invest far more money in autoimmune research.

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

@HDB

Looks like you've got it in one!

#49 Thing is, you can get the HPV virus from having sex with your spouse, too. And that wouldn't seem to have anything to do with sinning whatsoever.

Is there no rationalisation to which curry fans will not stoop, in order to continue their addiction?

Curses. Busted.

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 09 Aug 2013 #permalink

@Krebiozen-

I agree that many people are so focused on their digital devices that some of them may not even put them aside during something so fundamental as procreation. Here's to hoping they can spare some time away from the screen after they baby arrives. BTW, (and this is not for the faint of heart), here is an FDA letter to a man in California asking him to cease and desist the next closed thing to "online procreation": http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/TissueSafe…

(to me this is just as bizarre as those people who sell the varicella lollipops on ebay.

By Chris Hickie (not verified) on 10 Aug 2013 #permalink

Is there no rationalisation to which curry fans will not stoop, in order to continue their addiction?

You can never have too much Tim Curry. It's unpossible.

I could be wrong, but aks yourself: Why the obsession with infertility related to Gardasil in the absence of any even remotely compelling evidence?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: A vaccine that appeals to young women represents a grave threat to the next-generation antivax target audience.

PGP, I realize that asking you politely is futile, but I'll still try: will you PLEASE stop generalizing from little factoids to ENTIRE countries?? To those of us who DON'T get scared off from the truth by the possibility that it might be nuanced, your bigotry is literally stomach-turning.

By Antaeus Feldspar (not verified) on 10 Aug 2013 #permalink

So much antivax, so little time...

Dan Olmsted ( AoA) discusses Lariam.
And makes some astonishingly Shadenfreud'-ish statements:
Temple Grandin " ought to stick to her subject-matter expertise" ( speaking about vaccines) and her mother, Ms Cutler, "wandered well outside her wheelhouse" ( by writing about autistic men and child pornography); he was "struck that an editor let it through". He also links to Jake's take .

Really, I didn't make that up.

Then he goes on to narrate a tale about Temple's childhood pet, a mouse a friend gave her: they called it "Crusader" and T. painted a red cross on its back with Mercurochrome. The mouse died ( he was rather aged) but Dan wonders why and what mercury did to Temple.

He then congratulates Conrick on her brilliance ( contra Simon Baron-Cohen) and perseverates upon his own speculations about Freud's patients and mercury.

I have found his and Blaxill's fascination with Freud and their attempts to "translate" him into mercury-speech extremely entertaining.

You know what they say about hammers - well, BOTH of those expressions apply.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 10 Aug 2013 #permalink

Herr Doktor Bimler #65 Is there a sudden sheep shortage?

You know what they say about hammers

No, no idea. I do know about sacks of them, though.

*snirk*

I just have one question. I am not some anti-vaccine nut, I have three children and they have received all their vaccines, but my daughter will not be getting the HPV vaccine. There is too much risk associated with it, other countries have withdrawn recommendations for this vaccine due to adverse effects. If it is so safe, then why has the National Vaccine Injury Program paid out almost $6,000,000 in only 7 years due to 2 deaths and many other adverse reactions associated with this vaccine. In fact, if vaccines never harm anyone, why does this program even exist???

FYI, I’m locked out of the back end and can’t moderate comments. Whenever I try to log in I get an error message. So, unfortunately, I can’t release comments that get caught in the moderation queue until the powers that be fix whatever the problem is. I just hope they fix it before Monday, so that I can have some fresh Insolence ready for my readers. In the meantime, remember, more than two links in a comment will cause that comment to be caught in the moderation/spam filter.

@ politicalginnypig

I have no life in a closet. I hope you enjoy your life on the toilet.

narad

hello, my old canadian fluoride derived friend. how are youu these days? you and NJ still fluoride buddies?

Larry: "If people would not fornicate,"

Please tell that to your parents. I am sure they never thought of that idea!

Larry is a joke, isn't he? Or did a portal open up to the 19th century?

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 10 Aug 2013 #permalink

Looks like rob hood's posting again under the larry name.

Looks like the back end is working again. (You too can access the log-in page if you know how Wordpress works. I don't have any special access, you conspiracy nuts.)

Someone I know did a case-by-case analysis of all the HPV-associated deaths in VAERS and wrote it up. I keep telling him to publish it, even in a blog post, because it clearly describes how all of these cases are being reported, investigated, and cleared-up, but the anti-vaxxers will not tell you that they've been cleared up. They won't tell you how many of the women who die from blood clots months after their last shot were on birth control AND smoked AND were very sedentary and such. The other women had brain bleeds due to trauma, undiagnosed seizure disorders (where seizures had manifested in childhood but went undiagnosed anyway), etc.

Fornicate? Really? What did people do before the bible? Was that not fornication? What about my saintly great-grandmother who said her rosary every day and wore black for the rest of her life after her husband passed - she had an illegitimate son in 1899 but from all accounts was holier than thou? Hmmm, double standards anyone?

Larry probably meant formicate. An understandable confusion.

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 10 Aug 2013 #permalink

Whoa...Do I detect the whiff of Rob Hood from Eupora Mississippi?

Sniff, sniff...the blog reeks of Rob Hood.

Ah, speaking of Temple Grandin - I can't link to it, for reasons too boring to explain, but earlier this week there was an interview with her in the New York Times magazine where she said she thought that all other vaccines had been cleared of suspicion but for some reason, there was still a possibility that the MMR vaccine (some prior formulation of it, to be precise) might be a cause of some autism.

Why does she think this? Because, according to her, scientists haven't studied specifically regressive autism cases for a connection to vaccines. I already had to explain to someone on Facebook that if studies designed to find any correlation between vaccines, including MMR, and cases of autism, including regressive autism, find "no correlation", it already tells us there's no correlation between MMR and regressive autism. If you then go out looking for some form of causation that does not result in correlation, it's pretty good evidence that you've lost the plot.

By Antaeus Feldspar (not verified) on 10 Aug 2013 #permalink

Indeed so, @ lilady. People fighting the vaccine wars over on Zuckerbook are asking what they can say in response. Grrrrr. The obvious answer is nothing. Expertise in the design of humane slaughterhouses does not automatically confer expertise in any other area. Nor does having autism confer any insight on its aetiology. Her views on the subject are of as much value on those of any other interested layperson, no more and no less.
Well, maybe of a little more value than Jenny McCarthy's. But so are my donkeys'.

Well, I had an interesting time looking at art and sampling wine. Somebody has to do it, I suppose.

At any rate, do I sense peace talks/ cease-fire in the internecine anti-vax war? It seems that Dan linked to Jake's blog and then allowed him to comment. Will wonders ever cease?

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 10 Aug 2013 #permalink

Denice, I was noticing the same thing. Jake and Stone posted back and forth at AoA.

Crap...does this mean Jake won't be spilling his guts about the AoA/SafeMinds/Canary crowd?

"The only safe vaccine is one that is never used."

Dr. James R. Shannon, former Director, National Institute of Health.

zackoz,
Are you alluding to the usual complaint about HPV vaccines not having been proven to prevent cancer, simply because they haven't been around long enough?

I don't know if this is helpful, but there are plenty of studies showing that surgical removal of precancerous cervical intraepithelial neoplasia prevents overt cervical cancer. There is also plenty of evidence that HPV vaccines greatly reduce the risk of precancerous cervical intraepithelial neoplasia. I think that means we have every reason to believe that HPV vaccines will prevent cervical and other cancers in the long-term.

I have found this argument useful in the past.

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 10 Aug 2013 #permalink

@ lilady:

I think Dan & Co want to keep Jake from saying even more so they're acknowledging him - tossing him crumbs- but not trusting him anywhere near the silverware.,

@AoA, not-so-sharp thorn-in-our-collective-side, Greg, presents his thoughts on sceptics. I was going to provide one of my own rightly famous Instant Translations but I think it'd be more fun to just read his comment ( @ Cathy "Mamacita" Jameson's post today). Right. He's got us where he wants us.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 11 Aug 2013 #permalink

@Denise - LOL, I just read his comment....rings of Custer's last words - "We've got them surrounded! Charge!"

@ Lawrence:

Greg fancies himself to be an interrogator/ investigator who is getting *close to the Truth* ( or suchlike):

Oddly enough, interviewing is something I know about- we had to study/ practice how to interview people, I also had to question clients about things they really didn't want to discuss which were important for their future- long story there)..

At any rate, as Happy Cat might remark to Greg: "Your Doing it RONG!"

Like the anti-vaxxers, he has a bizarre theory that "explains" how sceptics/ minions think, behave and support themselves.

Oh, if only he stumbled upon the REAL truth... he couldn't handle it, Brian.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 11 Aug 2013 #permalink

@lilady and DW - is that what Dreg really thinks he's doing when he comes here? Comedy gold. Also, his fixation on poop is starting to rival that of the infamous Rob Hood.

By Edith Prickly (not verified) on 11 Aug 2013 #permalink

Thanks to Greg, I am going to re-double my efforts to help educate new parents on the efficacy and importance of vaccines, and to help combat the abject stupidity pushed by Greg and his ilk....

@ Edith:

Right. Some psychologist should really survey the fantasy systems rattling around alt med world.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 11 Aug 2013 #permalink

I find it hard to believe that Greg really thinks this. It must be some sort of apologetic excuse to his cronies for his abject failures here. Why would anyone be bothered by someone who keeps repeating the same old debunked nonsense over and over like a demented parrot?

Like Lawrence, Greg's visits to Respectful Insolence have certainly made me even more determined to make sure as many people as possible know that the vaccine-autism hypothesis is no longer taken seriously by reputable scientists. Thanks for that Greg!

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 11 Aug 2013 #permalink

@ Kreb:

I think that- like many woo-meisters, anti-vax advocates, alt med proselytisers- he is of two minds, i.e. he *partially* believes his own story but then reality comes in and tears the fantasy to shreds and thus, it must be re-built and re-iterated to others, as self-reinforcement and as a way to hopefully gain like-minded supporters who bolster his belief.

SBM advocates are irksome as they remind him that he doesn't totally believe his tale himself. Those who work with delusional people are taught that no matter how divorced from reality they may seem to be, there is always a tiny part of them that may be reachable so speak to them realistically. ( No, I am not saying that they're delusional)

That's all we can do. I doubt that most of the die hard advocates can ever be reached - it's a lost cause- but there are so many OTHERS within earshot that can listen to reason.

It's unfortunate that ANYONE has to serve as a negative example but that's life.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 11 Aug 2013 #permalink

@Denise - I would recommend reading Matt Tabibi's book, the Great Derangement.....it explains a lot about the psychological issues that people like Greg have and why.

Lawrence, I'm familiar with it.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 11 Aug 2013 #permalink

Thanks for posting details of this paper; I haven't found
a non-paywalled copy yet.

Thanks to your post, I was able to update
http://hpv.kegel.com/faq/#rumor-sterile1
with that tidbit about the two cases being sisters.

By Dan Kegel (not verified) on 11 Aug 2013 #permalink

Thanks Lawrence, that is now on my reading list.

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 11 Aug 2013 #permalink

@Nick Theodorakis -

Many thanks! I didn't realize that the interview was actually months old; I thought it was from just the past couple of weeks...

By Antaeus Feldspar (not verified) on 11 Aug 2013 #permalink

Kann ich einen Cookie, bitte?

Khani #62: Sex between married partners is only for the procreation of children, or if the husband wants it (because women have no sex drive apparently). I'd imagine the cervix of a righteous woman would reject the HPV, just as you can't get pregnant from rape because women's bodies can reject unwanted sperm. /sarcasm

By Christine (the… (not verified) on 11 Aug 2013 #permalink

Christine: " Sex between married partners is only for the procreation of children,"

Tell that to Larry's parents. What is freaky scary is this story that I am reading that was a link from Doubtful News: The Ghost Rapes of Bolivia. Oh, Larry, they were good "Christian" men. Perhaps you will sympathize with them.

#62 Ha. Just pointing out that their own argument, even with the faulty hidden premise that women should be pure or whatever, doesn't really hold any water either. You can be pretty virtuous and still get HPV.

01000001 01100010011001010110110001100001011101000110010101100100 0110100001100001011100000111000001111001 0110001001101001011100100111010001101000011001000110000101111001 0100111101110010011000010110001100100001 - Number 5 and me

@Denice - bog Frahnkensteens

My best defence against mosquitoes is Mrs. K. They go straight for her.

By al kimeea (not verified) on 12 Aug 2013 #permalink

@ al kimeea:
Oooh.
My friend photographed mummies in Cuzco, Peru.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 12 Aug 2013 #permalink

RE: Dr. Shannon:

The "only safe vaccine" meme originated as "Dr. James R. Shannon, former director of the National Institute of Health reported in December, 2003 that “the only safe vaccine is one that is never used”.

Two problems with this, one minor and one major.

The minor one is that a Dr. James R. Shannon was never a director of the NIH: that was James A. (for Augustine) Shannon.

The major problem? In December 2003 Dr. James A. Shannon was in no position to report anything, having been dead for 9 years.

@Denice

Mummies from a bog or freeze dried by the Andes? That would be a sweet trip with plenty of photo ops.

By al kimeea (not verified) on 12 Aug 2013 #permalink

@ al kimeea:

Dried and crumpled up into foetal position. Virtually skin and bones.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 12 Aug 2013 #permalink

My favorite VAERS reported death post Gardasil:

#379570: “…patient accidentally fell in open well (granite quarry filled with water), drowned and expired. This event occurred 49 days of receiving first dose of GARDASIL.”

Hi Australian woman here, longtime lurker. I've had all three doses of HPV and no problems to report, someone mentioned upthread about Australia being among the first to get the vaccine. I beleive we actually were THE first women in the world outside of trials to receive it, I got mine for free after a month or two of introduction because I was under 25 at time. If there is anything significantly wrong with this vaccine in the longterm you should be looking here first for signs of it. Other then a very over blown case of a teenage girl fainting after

Hi Australian woman here, longtime lurker. I've had all three doses of HPV and no problems to report, someone mentioned upthread about Australia being among the first to get the vaccine. I beleive we actually were THE first women in the world outside of trials to receive it, I got mine for free after a month or two of introduction because I was under 25 at the time. If there was anything horribly wrong with this vaccine surely us here in oz would notice first?

I would also like to express my disdain for people who say they are anti-HPV vacc because 'it takes years and years for the cancer to develop even if you have HPV' I have a sister who caught HPV from her boyfriend at 16, she was diagnosed with stage 3 developmental cervical cancer two years later. Not scary enough? Well how's this: the pap that caught it was taken a few months after her regular two year test. Why did she take another pap when her first was clear? Somethig just didnt feel right to her and shr went with her gut, in this case it paid off but my god I can't even bear to think what could've happened if my sister had waited another two years. My sister got luck, the developing cancer was removed and hasnt returned since. This was before the HPV vacc of course. Thanks to everyone here for battling the misinformation surrounding vaccines, peopl like myself and my sister appreciate it.

Sorry I accidently posted twice, please delete my first comment.

I think the Shannon meme might have started here:

http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james.htm

By Dr. James Howenstine, MD.
December 7, 2003
NewsWithViews.com
Dr. James R. Shannon, former director of the National institute of health declared, "the only safe vaccine is one that is never used."

@ Mandy J. I meant to send you a warm hello, but got "involved" on some other science blogs.

Thanks so much for posting. It's nice to hear from young people who have had the HPV vaccine and who "survived". :-)

I developed Multiple Sclerosis at 45 following a Hep. B vaccine. I worked with a number of people who had also developed auto-immune diseases following this vaccine (it was compulsory in our workplace) - rheumatoid arthritis; arthritis; Lupus; Reiter's syndrome and psoarosis.
The Link to Hep. B vaccines and auto-immune diseases is acknowledged - check the internet.
The Gardasil vaccine has been linked to an increase in Gullian-Barre Syndrome ; MS ; Lupus and a "Glandular Fever type illness in young teenage girls here in Australia. I am not against vaccines but they may not be as safe as people think.

By Jan McTIERNAN (not verified) on 14 Aug 2013 #permalink

@Jan McTiernan:

The Link to Hep. B vaccines and auto-immune diseases is acknowledged – check the internet.

Check the internet? Are you serious?
The Internet is like a public square. Anyone can write just about anything. It doesn't automatically make it true.
PS

developed Multiple Sclerosis at 45 following a Hep. B vaccine. I worked with a number of people who had also developed auto-immune diseases following this vaccine (it was compulsory in our workplace) – rheumatoid arthritis; arthritis; Lupus; Reiter’s syndrome and [psoriasis]

It is not unknown for the illnesses you mention to manifest at 45. I'd like to see your evidence that it was the vaccine that caused your illness.

The Gardasil vaccine has been linked to an increase in Gullian-Barre Syndrome ; MS ; Lupus and a “Glandular Fever type illness...

Linked by whom? Proper doctors? Or chiropractors and Australian anti-vaxxers like Meryl Dorey and the Australian (anti) Vaccination Network?

By Julian Frost (not verified) on 15 Aug 2013 #permalink

The Link to Hep. B vaccines and auto-immune diseases is acknowledged – check the internet.

Actually, just the opposite. I followed your advice to 'check the internet' by visiting the CDC's website, where I found the following

Numerous studies have evaluated a possible relationship between hepatitis B vaccination and multiple sclerosis (MS). The weight of the available scientific evidence does not support the suggestion that hepatitis B vaccine causes or worsens MS.

see for yourself at http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Vaccines/multiplesclerosis_and_hep_b.h…

Jan McTiernan:

The Link to Hep. B vaccines and auto-immune diseases is acknowledged – check the internet

Sorry, but if you make a claim you must provide the evidence in a form of PubMed indexed paper by a reputable qualified researcher.

There have been plenty of research articles published in medical journals particularly around early 2000 - 2004 supplying evidence that the Hep. B vaccine can trigger auto immune diseases. In 1998 the Government in France discontinued their compulsory Hep. B vaccines to high school students because of an increase in MS in students following vaccination. Not long after that India pleaded with the UN to stop vaccinating their people with Hep. B because it was making them sick. Check out Prof. Bonnie Dunbar's research on side effects of Hep. B.These articles have been printed in newspapers world-wide and Time magazine. I am not making it up!
Regarding Australia's figures on Gardasil check with the Therapeutic Goods Administration.
Vaccines have saved millions of lives and is a multi billion dollar business ; of course any negative publicity is supressed.

By Jan McTIERNAN (not verified) on 15 Aug 2013 #permalink

They instead state that studies performed at the CDC and elsewhere to examine the possibility of a link between vaccines and autoimmune disorders "have been reassuring, providing no evidence to suggest a link between vaccines and autoimmune conditions".

There have been plenty of research articles published in medical journals particularly around early 2000 – 2004 supplying evidence that the Hep. B vaccine can trigger auto immune diseases.

Great! Jay will be able to provide details, rather than just assure us that the evidence exists on the itnernet!

India pleaded with the UN to stop vaccinating their people with Hep. B because it was making them sick.

Are you telling us that the UN was forcing vaccinations on the Indian population against the government's wishes? Dare I ask whose army they were using to do this, or was it all black helicopters?

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 15 Aug 2013 #permalink

Jan McTIERNAN:

There have been plenty of research articles published in medical journals particularly around early 2000 – 2004 supplying evidence that the Hep. B vaccine can trigger auto immune diseases.

Then how come you can't list their PubMed Identification Numbers, much less their title, date and journal?

We *know where you are getting those factoids from...and it ain't PubMed citations.

The NVIC, whale.to the AVN and other crank anti-vaccine sites.

For goodness sakes. The Vaccine that was given to me was EngerixB. In the box it comes in it has a list of possible adverse reactions one of them being Multiple Sclerosis. I was not aware of any possible side affects of the vaccine at the time because I was just given the three injections. The nurse at the time did not give me any information she just stuck the needle in. If I had read that this medication may cause severe neurological disorders I would have still had it because of the word "may" and would have thought that won't happen to me but unfortunately I did have a reaction.
If you haven't had the Hep. B vac. get the Engerix B one and see if you have a reaction. If you then have an adverse reaction only then will you be convinced.
Of course WHO would disagree; vaccination programs make up the bulk of their organisation. They would have to sack 95% of their staff if vaccines did not exist.
Like I said I am not anti - vaccine- they save millions of lives but if a vaccine creates more harm then good it should be withdrawn until a safer one takes its place.
Dr Bonnie Dunbar addressed the US Congress regarding her research on the side effects of the Hep. B vaccine. She is not anti vaccine and actually works in a lab. creating vaccines.
MS is a dreadful disease. Thank God I had at least 45 healthy years. I have been lucky enough to have children and rear them to adulthood. If I got MS at 20 this would not have happened. My chances of getting Hep. B were very remote and perhaps people only "at risk" should be given this vaccine.

By Jan McTIERNAN (not verified) on 15 Aug 2013 #permalink

@jan

[citation needed] within 3 posts, or we can all assume that you have no actual proof of your claims.

Again, why should we believe you if you won't provide any evidence.

Jan McTIERNAN, you have made a claim therefore you must provide the evidence for that claim. Please list the title, date and journal of those studies. Even the PubMed Identification Numbers would suffice.

A researcher just talking to politicians is not scientific data. If she had real evidence it would have been published in a peer reviewed journal. Now do us a favor and actually post the actual data.

Also, in my world Bonnie Dunbar, PhD is an astronaut. As I understand she has never worked in vaccine research. So be specific with those papers.

@Jan McTiernan:

In the box it comes in it has a list of possible adverse reactions one of them being Multiple Sclerosis.

I've highlighted the relevant word in your quote: to wit, possible. I'd like to remind you that package inserts are "cover your backside" type documents written by lawyers. That MS is listed as a possible side-effect does NOT mean that the vaccine causes MS.

Of course WHO would disagree; vaccination programs make up the bulk of their organisation. They would have to sack 95% of their staff if vaccines did not exist.

Citation/supportine evidence definitely needed for this claim.

By Julian Frost (not verified) on 15 Aug 2013 #permalink

By the way, the HepB vaccine is not the HPV vaccine.

Completely different diseases, with completely different vaccines.

Also in response to this: "These articles have been printed in newspapers world-wide and Time magazine. I am not making it up!"

Journalists who write for those periodicals are not scientists and often get very important details wrong. So you really need to post the PubMed indexed papers from reputable researchers to support your claims.

The FDA requires a vaccine manufacturer to put information about "reported serious adverse events"...even if those events are unverified, before the license is issued by the FDA.

Me thinks Jan Mc Tiernan is reluctant to cite her sources. Is she ashamed of those sources?

Jan McTIERNAN @ 129: I am not making it up!

You have told us that the UN is forcing vaccines upon the Indian population against the wishes of the Indian government (despite the large army and navy controlled by the latter). I suggest that you *are* making it up, and that if you were any more full of sh1t your eyes would turn brown..

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 15 Aug 2013 #permalink

Jan,

I am not against vaccines but they may not be as safe as people think.

If only there were large clinical trials of vaccines, and active surveillance post-marketing programs that would tell us definitively how safe they are. Oh wait, there are!

For goodness sakes. The Vaccine that was given to me was EngerixB. In the box it comes in it has a list of possible adverse reactions one of them being Multiple Sclerosis.

The Engerix B package insert (PDF) does mention MS in a long list of adverse events, and states:

The following adverse events have been identified during postapproval use of ENGERIX-B. Because these events are reported voluntarily from a population of unknown size, it is not always possible to reliably estimate their frequency or establish a causal relationship to the vaccine.

In layman's language this means that people have reported bad things happening after vaccination, but we cannot assume that vaccination caused them, any more than we can assume that a child who got sick after watching Sesame Street was sickened by the TV show. Many adverse events will follow vaccination purely by chance.

In the case of MS it is possible to estimate whether a causal relationship exists, as the package insert also states:

Results from 2 clinical studies indicate that there is no association between hepatitis B vaccination and the development of multiple sclerosis, and that vaccination with hepatitis B vaccine does not appear to increase the short-term risk of relapse in multiple sclerosis.

There were some fears that vaccines might cause autoimmune disorders in the late 90s and early 2000s. It was at this time that Dr Dunbar wrote about these possibilities. Several very large, well-designed studies were carried out, and they showed that these fears were unfounded. Here's an article from 2004 that might help you understand this.

These vaccine scares cause far more harm than good. My baby son spent several weeks in the hospital fighting for breath with whooping cough in the early 80s, which was horrible for him and for us. This happened because a scare about the pertussis vaccine in the UK led to a fall in vaccine uptake, which was followed by large outbreaks, which sickened thousands and killed several children. The scare turned out to be groundless, so those children suffered and died for nothing.

Trying to resurrect these scares when good quality evidence has shown definitively that they are unfounded, as you have been doing here, puts people's lives at risk. Frankly I think it's despicable. Please get your facts straight before posting about vaccines in future.

Like I said I am not anti – vaccine- they save millions of lives but if a vaccine creates more harm then good it should be withdrawn until a safer one takes its place.

Please give an example of any vaccine that creates more harm than good. Even many withdrawn vaccines did more good than harm, for example the Urabe mumps vaccine that was in use in the UK was withdrawn because it sometimes caused aseptic meningitis, but it caused this far less often than mumps itself did.

The last smallpox vaccine in use in the UK, even after smallpox had been eradicated there, was know to cause serious adverse events, including deaths, but most people* recognized that this was a price worth paying to prevent the return of smallpox.

* My father was a GP, and he didn't think it was worth the risk, so I was never vaccinated against smallpox, which I find a little disconcerting since there was an outbreak in the UK the year I was born.

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 16 Aug 2013 #permalink

Next blog topic "oxytocin causes autism" you will have a field day with this crap!!!!