Homeopathy for Ebola virus disease: Too quacky even for Mike Adams!

14619181639_0835ee7209

Over the last decade that I’ve been at this blogging thing, I’ve come across some incredibly irresponsible quackery, but what I saw about a week and a half ago took the cake. I’m referring to practitioners of The One Quackery To Rule Them All, homeopathy, demonstrating a sense delusion that was as massive as the concentration of a 30C homeopathic dilution is small when they proposed that homeopathy could be used ot treat Ebola virus disease. There are not enough facepalms face palmy enough to express the disgust at the utter ridiculousness and irresponsibility of even suggesting that magic water can do anything about one of the most deadly infectious diseases out there. It’s of a piece of homeopaths’ insistence that homeopathy could be used to stop the H1N1 influenza pandemic back in 2009 or that victims of the 1918 influenza pandemic did better than those treated with conventional medicine, only even more delusional, given how much higher the case fatality rate is for Ebola.

I thought I’d revisit this, not because homeopathy is any less nonsensical as a treatment for anything, least of all Ebola virus disease, but rather because of a rather amusing incident that occurred today. On Sunday night, you, my readers, started sending me this link over at Mike Adams’ font of all things quackery, NaturalNews.com, entitled Treating Ebola with Homeopathy. I was thinking of blogging about it, but decided not to because I thought at the time: I’ve already written about this topic once, and I don’t see anything in the post to resurrect the topic. I thought that maybe I’d do it for yesterday—or maybe not, depending on what popped up. The post kept popping up on Twitter as an example of extreme foolishness. Then, last night I saw someone Tweet at me that Mike Adams had taken the post down. Given his proud embrace of all quackery, at first I couldn’t believe it. So I checked it out, and, yes, this is what I found:

Natural News was made aware of a blog post that seemed to recommend a highly questionable method related to Ebola prevention. The blog post has been removed pending further investigation, and the blogger is under review. Natural News does not condone any member of the public attempting to interact with Ebola, a very hazardous biological threat.

RELATED NEWS: Ebola vaccine to be manufactured by criminal drug company with felony record http://www.naturalnews.com/046414_Ebola_vaccine_safety_testing_drug_company_profits.html

Whoa. I couldn’t believe it. Here, it appears, was a post so irresponsible that it was too irresponsible even for Mike Adams, a post that was too quacky for the quackmaster himself! That’s some weapons-grade quackery, a black hole of stupidity, and any other mixing of metaphors for ridiculousness I could think of. Oddly enough, the post wasn’t written by Mike Adams himself, as most of the posts that are the most disconnected with anything resembling reality are at that website. Rather, it was written by a Norwegian blogger named Ken Oftedal, who describes himself thusly:

Kjetill Oftedal, a Norwegian by birth, physicist, systems analyst and homeopath by education, multilingual at an early age--a result of being raised in the U.S., Norway and the Dutch West Indies--has lived and worked in various professions in a number of European countries and the U.S. Kjetill Oftedal has worked as a sailor, salesman, night guard, electrical engineer, North Sea offshore engineer and in the Sahara; tutor, high-school, adult education and university teacher; director of personal enhancement training institutions in Spain and Portugal; systems analyst, computer programmer; classical homeopath, multilingual translator, webmaster, managing director of a school and clinic of classical homeopathy he established in Spain.

There’s more there, so much more, but let’s move on to what Oftedal actually claimed. The original post is gone, and the Google cache didn’t locate it. The Yahoo! cache, however, happened still to have a copy of the original post. (I guess the Google cache updates more often than the Yahoo! cache.)

Because I don’t want anyone to forget the sort of quackery that homeopaths are pushing for Ebola virus disease, I’m going to quote liberally from this post. The introduction is nothing special, though. It rehashes the same sorts of claims about homeopathy that I mentioned above, such as the ridiculous claim that homeopathy was so successful treating the 1918 pandemic, a claim often regurgitated by homeopaths without any actual verifiable evidence. Oftedal also claims that homeopathy has “well-documented success rates in, among others, scarlet fever, polio, cholera and flu epidemics, and offers a viable alternative to standard vaccination called homeoprophylaxis.” You know what they call someone who relies on “homeoprophylaxis”? Very ill. Or dead.

Here’s where the rationale for using homeopathy is explained:

After being infected with the Ebola virus, symptoms may appear as soon as after two days and as late as 21 days, the average period being 8–10 days.

Symptoms of Ebola can be similar to those of malaria, cholera, dengue fever, viral hemorrhaging fevers and tropical fevers.

Start Phase

Ebola usually starts with flu-like symptoms such as fever, sore throat, fatigue, muscle pain, abdominal pain and headache. There may also be chest pain, hiccups, shortness of breath, difficulty in swallowing and a red rash.

Middle Phase

In this phase of Ebola, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, liver and kidney problems appear, as well as problems with blood clotting, leading to bleeding.

Final Stage

The final stage of Ebola is the bloody one: red, bleeding eyes, bloody vomit, bloody stools, red or purple spots on the skin, localized collections of blood in the skin (hematoma), bleeding from body orifices.

The symptoms described above for Ebola resemble symptoms produced in healthy persons who took one of the following homeopathic remedies— including symptoms of people who were bitten by the snake concerned:

  • Crotalus Horridus (made from rattlesnake venom— fits the Ebola symptoms picture 95%)
  • Lachesis (made from venom of the bushmaster snake)
  • Bothrops (made from the venom of the yellow viper found on the island of Martinique)
  • Phosphorus (made from the element of the same name—relates to internal bleeding)

Thus, the symptom pictures of these remedies (check the Internet) should be examined for a match for the Ebola symptoms seen in a patient. Use the remedy with the closest match to treat the patient.

This demonstrates just how magical the magical thinking of homeopaths is. I note that these remedies are basically a subset of the homeopathic remedies recommended the last time homeopaths claimed to be able to treat Ebola. This looks like the four remedies recommended by Gail Derin and Vickie Menear.

I also can’t help but note how homeopaths are so wrong that they’re not even wrong when they accuse “conventional” doctors of just “treating symptoms.” After all, homeopathy is nothing but treating symptoms! Think about it. Based on a relatively vague similarity between the symptoms of Ebola virus disease and envenomation with rattlesnake, bushmaster snake, or yellow viper venom, homeopaths claim that such snake venom diluted to nonexistence can treat Ebola. Ebola symptoms are caused by the action of the Ebola virus. There is no reason to think that any of these snake venoms has any activity against Ebola virus, and Ebola victims are not likely to be cured without something that halts the activity of the virus.

The really hilarious thing, though, is how Oftedal then presents as evidence of the efficacy of Crotalus Horridus homeopathic remedy the story of a 54 year old man bitten by a rattlesnake on the middle finger and treated conventionally. It’s claimed that the medical personnel gave up, but this man supposedly was miraculously cured by Crotalus Horridus 30C in the form of a few pills of this remedy dissolved in four ounces of water, of which he took a teaspoon every hour. Why every hour? Who knows? Why not? What really made me howl with laughter, though, was this:

This case has an interesting parallel, as at that time, 1892 [when this miraculous cure was supposedly reported], there was no anti-venom available for this case, just as there is no cure nor vaccine for Ebola at present—and, lo and behold, a homeopathic remedy cured the case in short order.

Yes, because Ebola is just like that. By that rationale, though, homeopaths should be proposing taking Ebola virus and diluting it to homeopathic dilutions, then using that to treat Ebola virus disease! Oh, wait. Oftedal proposes exactly that:

How to Make Your Own Ebola Remedy

What you need:

  1. A face mask and gloves
  2. Two bottles (50 ml up to 500 ml glass or plastic bottles) with caps
  3. Clean water (mineral or tap water)
  4. An Ebola sample: some spit or other disease product, such as blood, from a person infected with Ebola, or who is suspected sick with it. Any small quantity will do, even a pinhead.
  5. An alcoholic liquid, such as whisky, brandy, rum, etc.
  6. Half an hour of your time.

Procedure:

  1. Fill the bottle with water, leaving about 20% space at the top.
  2. Place the Ebola sample in the water in the bottle.
  3. Close the top of the bottle with the cap.
  4. Hold the bottle and strike it hard against a solid surface, such as a large book, 40 times.
  5. Pour out the contents of the bottle.
  6. Refill the bottle with water (the fluid remaining on the inside surface of the bottle will serve as the next Ebola sample).
  7. Repeat steps 3 to 6 a total of 30 times.

Storage:

  1. Pour the bottle solution into another bottle—your stock bottle.
  2. Add 10% by volume of the alcoholic liquid (whisky, brandy, etc.) as a preservative.
  3. Store in a place away from sunlight and electronic equipment.

Using this stock bottle, you can supply the Ebola remedy to as many people you want. With one drop from the stock bottle as an Ebola sample you can produce another stock bottle to give to someone else. Instead of the original Ebola sample you used above to make the original stock bottle, you use a drop from the first stock bottle. This process can be carried out ad infinitum, supplying a whole city, etc., if needed.

OK, now. I know we skeptics joke about homeopathic remedies being diluted so much that it’s unlikely that a single molecule is left. So this shouldn’t be a problem, right? After all, what a homeopath who does this should have left is just water, right? Well, I wouldn’t count on it. All it takes is for one or a few Ebola virus particles to cling to the surface of the bottle. The bigger problem, though, is this: What do you do with all the water being used to dilute the Ebola virus? The water discarded during the first few dilutions is likely to be chock full of virus, given how much virus can be found in the blood and secretions of victims. Imagine the potential for accidental self-infection or infection of others if that water deposits Ebola on surfaces where people can touch it, get it on their skin, and then, as people so frequently do, get it on their mucus membranes by either rubbing their eyes, picking their nose, or eating something by hand. It’s insanity! Also, the thought of striking a glass bottle containing Ebola virus-laced water doesn't sound like the most brilliant plan in the world. What if the bottle breaks? Plastic's only little better.

You know what’s also insanity? The claim that this solution can be used to prevent Ebola infection. I kid you not. Oftedal recommends mixing a teaspoonful of this remedy into a cup of water and taking a sip once or twice a day. If a person believes this will protect him against infection, that person might become careless with universal fluid precautions and slip up, thus letting himself be infected. In that case, if you're unfortunate enough to be infected with Ebola virus, Oftedal recommends making a cup o’ cup o’ Ebola homeopathy the same way but taking a sip every 15 minutes until the victim feels better. This is known as letting oneself die. Even if you put electrolytes in it, it wouldn’t even be enough water to rehydrate the victim!

As if this isn’t quackery enough, Oftedal cautions:

There should be no taste in your mouth on taking a homeopathic remedy. Thus, you should not eat or drink anything (besides water) at least fifteen minutes before and after taking it.

This also applies to smoking. Nor should there be any strong odor, such as from perfume, incense, etc. present in the room. You can take a homeopathic remedy any time of the day or night, keeping these points in mind.

Avoid touching a pill with your fingers as your energy field can neutralize the information carried. Use the remedy container cap instead, or some other means, to throw a pill onto your tongue. Allow the remedy to dissolve on your tongue as if it were a piece of candy (actually it is in a way, since it consists of milk sugar, i.e., lactose, plus a trace of alcohol, and curative information). Liquid remedies are dripped onto the tongue.

Wait at least ten minutes before eating or drinking anything besides water. Afterwards you can eat and drink as you normally do.

“Curative information”? More milk sugar, plus a trace of alcohol, nothing more! I do note how Oftedal builds in an excuse for when the homeopathic remedy fails. The person taking it must have mucked up its “curative information” somehow, either by touching it or handling it inappropriately. Yeah, that’s the ticket. Of course, he fails to explain why touching the homeopathic pill with one's hands will muck up the "curative information" contained therein, but letting it touch the tongue and inside of the mouth, as is necessary to consume it, doesn't. He does educate me about one thing, though. Remember all those “homeopathic suicide attempts,” in which a skeptic or skeptics down a whole bottle of homeopathic remedy, to prove that homeopathy is water? Oftedal tells us why nothing happens to these skeptics, explaining:

Therefore, please remember that you only need to take one single pill, just one, not all the pills in the container, as some patients have done. Taking all the pills would have the same effect as taking one pill, so you might as well save the rest for another occasion.

This is, of course, true, because homeopathy is nothing but water or the sugar making up the pill. Thanks for making skeptics’ point for them! Hilariously, contrary to the case for virtually all NaturalNews.com posts, the comments after this one were overwhelmingly negative, with quite a few comments castigating Oftedal for irresponsibility and saying, in essence, “You first.” They’re still there on the page left after Adams took down the post.

In any case, you might wonder why I had to take on this particular topic again. The answer is easy. I’ve never before encountered quackery too irresponsible for even Mike Adams. Now I have. Thanks, Ken Oftedal! I’m not likely to see the like of this again. Oh, and Mr. Adams. I have, of course, saved the entire text of the post, which is actually probably twice or three times the length of what I’ve cited. You might try to forget, but the Internet, like rock ‘n’ roll, never forgets.

ADDENDUM: Here's another quack too quacky even for Mike Adams, a woman by the name of Angela A. Dockter-Harris, who Tweeted:

The link leads to this Facebook post:

Full text (in case Ms. Docktor-Harris decides to throw this Facebook post down the memory hole):

Got asked about Ebola again. What to do, what can be done. Remember a few simple things. 1. Stock you home medicine cabinets NOW. Don't wait. Stuff has to be ordered and shipped, and in a panic, companies who have protocols that can potentially help will run out and shipping takes time. 2. The body IS designed to be self-healing. 3. Given #2 prepare your body now. Detox. Support the immune system, support the drainage pathways. 4. In simple terms (not to make light of it) it is viral. There ARE remedies that can help the body ward off/fight viruses. 5. With homeopathy COMBINED with bioenergetic medicine we can customize remedies specifically for this (and any virus or toxin). Can we guarantee a "cure"? By law, no. And even modern medicine can't give guarantees. But can you be armed? Prepared? Supplied? Yes. Contact us today for info on what we might recommend for you to start stocking up remedies for your family medicine cabinet. For everyday health. For this health scare --- if you are concerned.

That's right. Homeopathy isn't enough. Apparently you need "bioenergetic medicine" and "detoxification" too. (Of course you do.) Science weeps. Dead Ebola victims weep.

ADDENDUM: Not content to let his post be taken down at NaturalNews.com, Ken Oftedal has reposted it at his own blog.

Categories

More like this

If there is one thing that the ongoing Ebola outbreak in Africa has revealed to the world, it’s the full extent of quackery that is out there and advertised as being able to treat deadly diseases such as Ebola. The deadlier the disease, the more quackery is out there, amplified by the scariness…
Homeopathy is quackery. There, I’ve fulfilled my normal requirement to start out all posts that I write having to do with homeopathy with a simple, declarative, and, most of all, true statement about what homeopathy is. I also like to mention briefly homeopathy’s two major “laws.” The first is…
Here we go yet again. I’ve been interested in the Ebola outbreak that’s been going on for months in west Africa for a number of reasons. First, it’s a bad disease, and this is the largest outbreak in history. over 5,000 people have died. Second, there’s been a lot of unreasonable fear mongering…
This one will be much shorter than usual, mainly because I was out late last night for a dinner function at which I was on a panel of breast cancer experts. I must admit, even after having been an attending surgeon for 15 years, it never ceases to make me feel a bit weird to be presented as a “…

Natural News does not condone any member of the public attempting to interact with Ebola

What, there's no way to simply communicate with it? What is this, Radio Tirana?

Maybe we could broker a deal with Marburg.

Pour out the contents of the bottle.
Homeopathy seems to rely heavily on allopathic town water-sterilising infrastructure to handle the toxic and infectious materials being poured blithely down the drain.

Based on a relatively vague similarity between the symptoms of Ebola virus disease and envenomation with rattlesnake, bushmaster snake, or yellow viper venom, homeopaths claim that such snake venom diluted to nonexistence can treat Ebola. Ebola symptoms are caused
by the action of the Ebola virus.

You would think that if homeopathy can address the hemorrhagic effects of Ebola then it would also be a sovereign remedy against actual snakebite itself, but few homeopaths are offering a homeopathic treatment for an encounter with rattlesnake, instead advising patients to seek *real* medical assistance.
Perhaps a homeopathic dose of Ebola would remedy the hemotoxic effects of a bite by an Angolan crab spider. More research is necessary.

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 11 Aug 2014 #permalink

"Natural News was made aware of a blog post that seemed to recommend a highly questionable method related to Ebola prevention. The blog post has been removed pending further investigation, and the blogger is under review...."

Maybe Mikey should have checked up on the author Ken Oftedal last year, when he posted three articles on Natural News (two articles August 2013 and one article September 2013)

http://blogs.naturalnews.com/?s=ken+oftedal

I saw this post when it went up and couldn't believe it. The most surprising thing to me was the comments. I have never seen so many of the tin hat brigade rise up against a natural news post! Maybe there is some hope left?

Hold the bottle and strike it hard against a solid surface, such as a large book, 40 times.

As someone who recently broke a tomato pasta glass jar by accidentally making it fall down about 3 inches, I'm not exactly keen on smacking repeatedly an Ebola virus-filled bottle.

Avoid touching a pill with your fingers as your energy field can neutralize the information carried.

But isn't your tongue touching the pill when you pop it in your mouth?
So your energy field is stronger around your hands compared to around your head, where your brain is encased?
Oh. So homeopathy only works for the brain dead.

@ Bags

I wouldn't put too much hope in this. These people may have been put off by the idea of having to acquire themselves some live Ebola virus to make the potion. Gross and very risky.
They want a risk-free, ready-to-use solution.
To be fair, I am not very optimistic on the risk assessment of this homeopathic recipe, either. I have some training in pathogen handling, but not enough to feel confident in messing around with some Ebola virus-laced sputum.

I also wonder how much of Mike's reaction is due to the "do it yourself and give it for free to the whole world" angle.
For free, for Pete's sake. Clearly this Ken dude has no business acumen.

By Helianthus (not verified) on 11 Aug 2014 #permalink

Ebola, like SARS or MERS, isn't something you want any layman playing around with.....these are serious diseases with mortality rates above 50% (and in some cases, between 85 - 95%).....people aren't scared enough of these diseases yet, because they haven't infected large numbers of people - but in the relatively small groups that have been infected, large numbers of them die.

Damn, people are stupid.

Hospital grade Lysol is about 50% ethanol (http://www.co.vermilion.il.us/MSDS/Tech%20Services/LysolPro-4650.pdf), but I don't recall seeing their labeling saying it is approved to disinfect for Ebola. However, 10% whiskey as directed by the homeopaths seems extremely unlikely to work against Ebola given that whiskey is ~ 80-100 proof (40-50% alcohol) and then only 10% of the initial volume,--that takes it down to 5%. Not something I'd even want to think about betting my life upon.

Of course, when Mike Adams disparages anyone/anything, it is done strictly for the monetary profit of Mike Adams. The demented squirrel on the treadmill in his cranium is no doubt furiously spinning the rusty exercise wheel to generate his latest scam.

By chris hickie (not verified) on 12 Aug 2014 #permalink

On reading my previous post, I feel the need to make myself clearer.

To emphasize: don't try this home, kids.

Cleaning after a victim of the virus is dangerous enough. Someone has to do it, but better someone trained and equipped.

Going on purpose to harvest some virus-tainted fluids, shaking it in second-hand water bottles, and then pouring out the content... That's just asking for disaster for no gain.
Opening the just-shaken-bottle, you will release an aerosol (a mist, fine droplets in suspension); pouring the content, you will have microdroplets splashing all over the place - including on yourself. Any of these droplets could carry viruses and contaminate you. If not immediately, when later when you remove your tainted gear.
In an hospital or a microbiology lab, you should have adequate protections to do something like this. More protections than gloves and a mask. As importantly, someone working in these facilities will also have training on how to avoid contamination.

A layman trying it home? It's very akin to suicide.
People following Oftedal's stupid recipe may well soon experiment themselves how nasty the virus is. On the positive side, if they die of Ebola, they won't need to worry about any virus anymore.

By Helianthus (not verified) on 12 Aug 2014 #permalink

My immediate thought was: Oh, Zeus, somebody is going to try this with polystyrene and end up with Ebola non-specific adhesion to the plastic surfaces. Polystyrene carries enough of a residual charge to non-specifically bind negatively charged substances like phospholipids, proteins and DNA. Add 10% alcohol, and the virus isn't inactivated, but you could neutralize the charge on the plastic, releasing the virus into solution.

"Criminy, who would have thought that homeopaths would be so ignorant of chemistry", he said, with a deep sense of irony and sarcasm.

By c0nc0rdance (not verified) on 12 Aug 2014 #permalink

Hard to believe that anyting is too quacky/dangerous to be posted on NaturalNews. If Adams culled all such articles from his site, the resulting savings in bandwidth would be astronomical. He could start with the article on making "oleander soup" to self-treat cancer (oleander being a highly toxic plant that has even killed people who used oleander twigs as skewers for roasting food over a fire):

http://www.naturalnews.com/023551_Oleander_health_water.html

Side note: Adams is already setting the stage to proclaim that Robin Williams' apparent suicide was due to ill effects of prescription drugs (his "tribute" to Williams includes a statement that we don't yet know how his depression was being treated and whether "medications" were involved).

What a loathsome vulture.

By Dangerous Bacon (not verified) on 12 Aug 2014 #permalink

@ chris hickie

10% whiskey as directed by the homeopaths seems extremely unlikely to work against Ebola

Completely agree.
Ethanol kills germs by coagulating their proteins and dissolving lipids, but to work, it needs to be in the 50-70% range. The presence of detergents is a big help, too.
Trivia: if higher than 90% (IIRC), ethanol is actually a preservative, it just dries germs. Remove alcohol, add water, instant bug.
Lower ethanol concentrations won't have much effect. A bit of alcohol in a liquid used to clean surfaces will hasten the evaporation of water, and some virus types (like the HIV) are very sensitive to desiccation, but that's about it. I really wouldn't count on it.
Obviously, dehydration won't happen to viruses in a bottle of water, even with a splash of whiskey in it.

By Helianthus (not verified) on 12 Aug 2014 #permalink

@DB - I'm waiting for the folks over at AoA to blame his suicide on anti-depressants as well (and maybe throw in a vaccine link or two).

So, have the makers of this homeopathic cure infected themselves with Ebola? Have they cured themselves? They should really try it on themselves first. FOR SCIENCE!

By Chadwick Jones (not verified) on 12 Aug 2014 #permalink

So, have the makers of this homeopathic cure infected themselves with Ebola? Have they cured themselves? They should really try it on themselves first. FOR SCIENCE!

If they do so, let them do it on some remote, uninhabited island.

To emphasize: don’t try this home, kids.

There is a reason why BSL4 facilities exist, and a reason why anybody who needs to deal with Ebola in a lab setting does so in one of those. If you know what you are doing (and unless you have a specific background in infectious disease, you almost certainly don't) and have a BSL4 facility to play with, then go ahead. But don't be surprised when the zoning board denies your variance to build a BSL4 lab in your basement. And for $DEITY's sake, don't pour your waste products down the sink--it's a biohazard, and needs special handling.

The Dunning-Kruger is strong in this one (Oftedal).

By Eric Lund (not verified) on 12 Aug 2014 #permalink

Mikey is like the proverbial stopped clock, correct now and then inadvertently, not because the internal mechanisms are in proper working order.

And right, he, Null and the anti-vaxxers will use Williams' death to discourage usage of anti-depressants, even if details of the late actor's treatment are never revealed: it's just how their minds work.

That's one of the reasons I find so much objectionable in the material I survey: there is nearly universal rejection of any and all meds for psychological conditions and mental illness with especial focus upon anti-depressants and anti-psychotics as being more dangerous than the conditions themselves.

In reality, these meds, although not perfect, enable many people to live better and more independent lives; alt med would have us go back to the 'good old days' prior to modern medication or, as one advises, using herbs, diet, supplements and spiritual counselling. Which only works if you have extremely minor problems with which to deal.

I know that at least one of these idiots is gearing up to present his expose of psychiatric meds and he would have absolutely no qualms about using someone's untimely death to add fuel to his invective against SBM. Shamefully, I might add.

-btw- many of my friends, cohorts and family experience and depression or dysthymia so it's not merely an occupational concern of mine.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 12 Aug 2014 #permalink

alt med would have us go back to the ‘good old days’ prior to modern medication

This joke, from The Watchmen (via Brad DeLong), captures what the alt-med types seem to be advocating here:

Man goes to doctor. Says he's depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says he feels all alone in threatening world where what lies ahead is vague and uncertain. Doctor says, "Treatment is simple. Great clown Pagliacci is in town tonight. Go and see him. That should pick you up." Man bursts into tears. Says "But Doctor... I am Pagliacci."

By Eric Lund (not verified) on 12 Aug 2014 #permalink

This is weird, because I am sure that Natural News is the world's first homeopathic website: it's pure merda bubula mother tincture, after all.

By Guy Chapman (not verified) on 12 Aug 2014 #permalink

@ Guy Chapman:

But if it were homeopathic, the merde would be watered down.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 12 Aug 2014 #permalink

Wait a minute. You take a sip of the remedy every 15 minutes until you feel better. Check. You don't eat or drink anything except water for "at least fifteen minutes before and after taking it". Check. Wait. What? You'll die of hunger before the Ebola could get you. I guess that's one way to do it.

By The Ridger (not verified) on 12 Aug 2014 #permalink

An Ebola sample: some spit or other disease product, such as blood, from a person infected with Ebola, or who is suspected sick with it. Any small quantity will do, even a pinhead.

So the cure works even if the patient providing the cure is only suspected of having the disease which the cure is intended to, um, cure. Why not just cut out all the hassle and imagine there's a cure, then take it?

Nah, no-one could be that stupid.

By Rich Woods (not verified) on 12 Aug 2014 #permalink

WOW - Oftedal's International Homeopathic Web Clinic
web site is a real hoot!

www.clinic.euni.org

Note the "Downloads" page... Apparently, you can knock down Malaria by just listenig to an mp3 100 times!

"A person suffering from a heavy malaria attack was restored to normal after listening 100 times in succession to this mp3."

“A person suffering from a heavy malaria attack was restored to normal after listening 100 times in succession to this mp3.”

At best, a confusion of correlation and causation.

But I haven't listened to the mp3 in question, so it may be a case of "the cure is worse than the disease". I have encountered sound recordings that I can only listen to so many times, where by "so many times" I mean, if I'm in a generous mood, once. Even the better ones are unlikely to hold up under 100 consecutive listenings.

By Eric Lund (not verified) on 12 Aug 2014 #permalink

From the site to which RobRN linked:
"... use cadmium sulfate, CaSO4, ..."
"*Note: If you have a homeopathic pharmacy available, instead of making the cadmium sulfate remedy yourself, you should purchase the homeopathic remedy Calcium Sulphuricum with a potency of 200C or 30C from the pharmacy as it will be more effective."

This idiot doesn't even know the difference between cadmium and calcium.
I wonder if Mikey sells cadmium supplements to promote strong bones.

With regard to very dilute ethanol:
It may be bacteriostatic, rather than bactericidal at low conc. Benzyl alcohol at 0.9% is a common bacteriostat for parenterals. I don't know how ethanol compares, but it is probably inferior.

The "hospital grade" Lysol would get most, though not all, of its bactericidal and viricidal properties from the quaternary ammonium compound ("quat"), rather than the alcohol. The alcohol is probably there mostly to promote wetting of surfaces, especially if they might be contaminated with anything oily. Quats are surfactants, but not all that great.
It is worth noting that soaps or other anionic surfactants (detergents) will virtually completely destroy the effectiveness of quats, which are cationic detergents. Its effectiveness is also compromised if there is a lot of organic goop (but that is true even of chlorine bleach).

I don’t know how ethanol compares, but it is probably inferior.

Ethyl alcohol is my favorite alcohol, superior in every important way to benzyl alcohol. Just sayin'.

By Mephistopheles… (not verified) on 12 Aug 2014 #permalink

Ethyl alcohol is my favorite alcohol, superior in every important way to benzyl alcohol.

Well, if you are talking about internal use, then yes, ethanol is my preferred alcohol. There are other applications for which other alcohols deliver superior performance. That's why you can get isopropyl alcohol at the drugstore. I don't know as much about benzyl alcohol.

By Eric Lund (not verified) on 12 Aug 2014 #permalink

Naturally, I meant no disrespect to benzyl alcohol or the many other alcohols available at your local chemical supply house, pharmacy, or hardware store. I'm sure each has its admirers and is, in its own way, loved. Even cholesterol, which people want to label good or bad instead of simply accepting it as it is.

By Mephistopheles… (not verified) on 12 Aug 2014 #permalink

@Helanthus:
"So your energy field is stronger around your hands compared to around your head, where your brain is encased?" Well, yeah. Because Reiki! That's probably why NN took down the DIY Ebola cure. It only works if the preparer is trained in using their energy field to give the mixture an activating charge! Perhaps Mike doesn't want to go there himself, but he might take commissions on referrals to those homeopaths who are holistically woo-ic, (and charge accordingly). :-)

But seriously. Follow the Related News link: Adams is using his "don't try this at home" warning to draw clicks over to a page summarized as "Dont' get vaccinated for Ebola. Because Big Pharma!" So what to do about the disease? Well, perhaps the only "highly questionable" aspect of Oftedal's post from Adam's POV IS the suggestion that the public might 'interact' with the virus, and instead the public should be told to wait for the properly-handled-by-experts homeopathic cures and preventative supplements that are in the pipeline (no doubt coming soon to store.naturalnews.com).

Now, I'm no fan of Big Pharma, and the Health Ranger (er, Health Danger) CAN cite GlaxoSmithKline's involvement in some nasty business. But even a die-hard anti-corporatist like myself can see that GSK's sin's in marketing and distribution have nothing to do with it's development and testing of an Ebola vaccine.

Hmm, what did GSK do? "two count of introducing misbranded drugs, Paxil and Wellbutrin, into interstate commerce and one count of failing to report safety data about the drug Avandia to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA)." Then Mick Danger (Turd Eye)* drops this: "all this deception has generated tens of billions of dollars in profits for GSK over the years, while thousands of patients who used the drug products involved have suffered horrific side effects and even death."

I'm like: hunh? Wellbutrin and Paxil? WTF is he talking about? So I Google, and discover that indeed thousands of patients have suffered horrific consequences from the use of Avandia, numerous lawsuits are in progress, and this certainly appears to be very nasty business indeed.

BUT, Adams wrote "patients who used the drug productS involved," emphasis on the plural. So it turns out that his superficially 'responsibe' note on the excesses of Oftedal is just another excuse to take a pot-shot at anti-depressants, (and how convenient that this appears on the day Robin Williams commits suicide, though I don't know whether Adams' post went up before or after the news of Williams' death broke...)

Well, Mike, I take that kind of personally since I might well have been pushing up daisies for the last 20 years were it not for the availablity of effective anti-depressants, and I still have to constantly deal with the fact that psych meds are socially stigmatized, as the general public has no idea what SSRIs actually do (they don't make you 'happy', they just threshold the lows to the point where don't want to plunge your dinner fork through your hand), and so Fuck You Very Much.

* For the young-uns, that's Firesign Theater reference.

EVERYONE:

You MUST listen to the .mp3s on Oftedal's page! RobRN didn't mention that above the malaria clip is a "Cancer treatment mp3". "Reduce the effects of your cancer by listening to this mp3."

The cancer clip is 23 seconds, and at least ends on the bar at the completion of a musical phrase. The malaria clip is 17 seconds and cuts out in mid-note. They're the same musical genre, which I won't spoil. Apparently the agitating effects of malignant tumors is pacified by a bit of musical closure, while Plasmodium protozoa are shocked into death by the frustration of tonus interruptis repeated 100 times.

The existence of this is the facepalm to end all facepalms, and funny as all hell.

Can anyone identify the artists or song titles?

**Personally, if I was going to try to kill Malaria with music, I'd go with Motorhead, though I suppose the efficacy of any relief produced would need to go through a double-blind clinical trial to isolate the effects of the music vs. those of the head-banging. But the fact that Lemmy's still alive is some kind of medical miracle that science might want to investigate. :-) **

@sadmar - sounds like bebop to me.

By Mephistopheles… (not verified) on 12 Aug 2014 #permalink

@ sadmar:

And thank you for your honesty and somewhat-less-than-totally-enthusiastic endorsement of SSRIs. I know quite a few who might say the same. More or less. I'm dysthymic myself.

Mikey and Gary Null are responsible for helping increase the stigma surrounding mental illness and meds as if it wasn't bad enough already. Pseudo-science like theirs replaces common sense with uncommon nonsense so many of us work hard in order to counter it because it HURTS people.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 12 Aug 2014 #permalink

it WEREN'T

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 12 Aug 2014 #permalink

Here's an interesting question to ask an anti-vaxer. "If you had to travel to West Africa, and a vaccine against Ebola had just developed, would you take the vaccine?" or "Would you be in favor of a vaccine for Ebola?"

By Broken Link (not verified) on 12 Aug 2014 #permalink

@Broken Link,

I suspect the question “Would you be in favor of a vaccine for Ebola?” would backfire, as it would lead to responses in one of the standard tropes. These would include:

- I'm in favor of a safe Ebola vaccine.
- If I were going to West Africa, I'd take the vaccine. It's my choice whether to take the vaccine or not.
- It would be OK for an adult, but should never be on the mandatory list for children to keep from causing autism.
- Clearly with a 95% mortality rate, Ebola is way more dangerous than childhood diseases like measles, pertussis, polio, or chicken pox, so naturally we need a vaccine.
- Sure, as long as there's no mercury in it.

Of course as we've already seen, there are those who will argue that any vaccine that would be created by big pharma would be ineffective, loaded with toxins, a tool for government mind control, part of a plot by the Illuminati, and would be far inferior to faith, homeopath, acupuncture, the Rife machine, or crystals.

By Mephistopheles… (not verified) on 12 Aug 2014 #permalink

I don't believe that asking someone with anti-vax views about an Ebola vaccine would produce an interesting result, or even cause that person a moment's discomfort.

By Mephistopheles… (not verified) on 12 Aug 2014 #permalink

Broken Link @35: Have you tried asking them if they would get the yellow fever vaccine?

Many tropical countries require entering travelers to have been vaccinated against yellow fever in the last ten years, especially those entering from other countries where yellow fever is endemic. (The only exception is if you have a doctor's note, translated into the local language if needed, certifying that you have a medical contraindication for the vaccine.) I expect that, if a safe and effective Ebola vaccine were to become widely available, countries in tropical Africa (not just West Africa, but everywhere between the Sahara and the Kalahari) would start requiring it as well.

Mike Adams used to own a house in Ecuador (I haven't heard whether he succeeded in selling it). Idle speculation: perhaps he was unwilling to get/renew his yellow fever vaccination, and the Ecuadorian immigration authorities told him not to return until he did. I have no evidence that this was what happened, but it's consistent with everything I know about the situation.

By Eric Lund (not verified) on 12 Aug 2014 #permalink

Eric, when I lived in the Panama Canal Zone many many years ago (before the age of disco!), we had to remember to carry our shot records when we went into the Republic.

After there were a couple of cases of yellow fever in the interior we were told that if the Guardia Nacional found you did not have proof of a yellow fever vaccine, they would literally take you to the local clinic and force one on you. I sincerely do not know it that is true, but it would not surprise me. (these were the same people who several years later murdered Mr. Dragseth, my high school chemistry teacher).

@ Eric Lund:

About Mikey in Ecuador:
supposedly he emigrated there to find true health freedom and the purity of the rainforst as he ranted about mandatory vaccines and pollution in the US. I'm not sure if he has children or not: at one point he made veiled statements about knowing how difficult being responsible for children can be and how it changes your outlook in life.

After his re-entry into the US, PRN's loon-in-charge answered a caller's question about emigration to Ecuador by noting that a well-known health expert left his home there because of kidnapping threats without mentioning if the threats involved a child or an adult. (- btw- Mike is married).

I don't know Mike ever explained by he left.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 12 Aug 2014 #permalink

Just wanted to add my "f*** you too" to sadmar's #29 comment. It saddens me to think that at the age of 63, with so much opportunity to recieve help, Williams still felt death was the only otion. It makes me *very* fearful for my own prospects - half the age, with no support, and so much less to live for. People who promote woo for psychiatry only make it harder for people like us to find a home in this world. It is despicable.

Hello Flip!

Obviously Williams' wealth and opportunities** didn't save him. You're ahead of the game because you are publicly discussing your fears about your future.( He also had substance abuse issues on top of depression).

I think some people who are depressed or dysthymic can develop strategies to deal with downturns in their emotional lives. I'm not saying that it's easy. My own experience is that I feel I can usually spot when I am worse off than usual ( I also probably have a lighter form) and that certain activities help. I need to schedule physical activities to do regularly and have to keep up on my work and necessities ( paying bills, cleaning up etc). There is a form of self-monitoring that will alert you to danger periods when you may need meds and professional assistance ( compare present thought patterns to those recalled as part of worse times/ self-observation: have I eaten? combed my hair recently?). Hopefully, anyway.( Some people tally their scores periodically on depression inventories like the BDI).

Two people I know have more serious forms of depression and have managed to 'keep going' for a long time by being aware of pitfalls and having an armamentarium of activities ( one has used meds unhappily but repeatedly; the other has not ever done so). Both have exercise plans and reading/ tv, film watching included as well as having work to do ( formally or not). One is quite religious, the other is an atheist; one has many family connections, the other has few. Both do have friends or cohorts around.

Self talk can be used to re-structure thoughts: are your prospects truly so abysmal or is it just a bad day because your car needs work? Are there other ways to evaluate your own situation than the way that you currently do? Do others see you differently than you yourself do? Would many of your problems be solved and your feelings changed for the better if you just had more money coming in regularly?

Perhaps you measure yourself against standards that may be others' over-estimations and mis-representations of their own lives that they create in order to impress you. In other words, not real. If you find ways to stop thinking for a while ( meditation, exercise, listening to music you prefer, getting intensely interested in a novel or film) do you later feel better? I also like to walk or travel into more natural areas and observe landscapes and plant and animal life close up, usually with a camera,

You might examine how you attribute causation when negative outcomes occur: do you tend to blame yourself? Some people who experience depression may blame themselves more than is feasible: they over-generalise their responsibility beyond its boundaries.

It's good to have a project on which to work that is meaningful to you in which you can see the results of long term dedication.

I hope that you feel better. And hey, you'll be coming out of winter soon: having more hours of daylight may help

** and living nearly in paradise, believe me- I've seen that town both from the water and on land.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 13 Aug 2014 #permalink

@Daniel

Great now my hand hurts because I did the *facepalm* and *headdesk* in the wrong order.

I'm wondering if Mikey's takedown was forced.
My conspiracy theory:

(tinfoil/)
Mikey is now under the watchful eye of some poor agent at the FBI who is tasked with monitoring his site for illegal lunacy due to his recent promotion of vigilante murder by his minions.
Poor FBI agent sees article and notifies the DHS.
DHS sees article as a recommendation for citizens to ignorantly muck around with ebola putting the public water supply and other infrastructure at risk of intentional deadly biological contamination.
DHS contacts Mikey and tells him to 'Take it down or we shut your site(s) down, moron.'
Mikey meekly complies without complaint because his revenue stream is more important than his convictions.

Prove it didn't happen that way...
(/tinfoil)

Have fun.

@Denice

Thanks. My reply is a bit long and personal, would you mind if I responded via email?

@Reality

That wouldn't work, because free speech.

@ Flip:

You might consider speaking very generally- I'll get the gist
.
Basically, I'm advising you to be more fluid in your self-appraisals and to consider alternative ways of evaluating yourself; perhaps talking to someone ( a professional or a civilian with good judgment) IN PERSON whenever things get rougher. Know how to gauge your current state ( alright/ so-so/ worse/ terrible) and be aware of danger signals- very bleak thoughts, focusing on death etc.

And finding yourself means of distraction away from your thoughts. Sometimes we need to learn new ways to offset
low feelings and everyone needs to find their own path. What works for me or my friends may not work for you.

Take a look at manuals for counsellors which might give you a few ideas.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 13 Aug 2014 #permalink

Even the better ones are unlikely to hold up under 100 consecutive listenings.

It's only a test to see if you are autistic (at least, some other neurodiverse might also do it). At work, I listened to Extreme Ways from John Powell and Moby for close to a week when I needed a royal lot of focus. this song calm me down the most.

Alain

@Denice

Why I wanted to discuss privately is because there are a lot of specifics to me that make it hard to talk openly without revealing, oh, my whole life story. It makes my pseudonym pointless.

... I'm having a really REALLY shit day and frankly I can't do this publicly right now. The gist though is that although I appreciate your advice, it's not anything I haven't already thought or tried before (even before I realised I needed medical assistance, like say a decade or two ago) and that I find the reliance by psychologists on these self-evident concepts to be frustrating.

The gist is, that like most things, it's just life is more complicated than that. The gist is that I don't even want to talk about it, or get better, because most of the time I'm ok with who I am. I am having less trouble accepting myself, and far more trouble accepting the rest of the world as it is.

Anyway, if you still want to discuss reach me at flippingflipperburgers at gmail.

PS. Thanks for writing a reply. I really have no support whatsoever right now and today's one of those days you need someone to come over and make you a hot meal while you take a shower, and then sit with you as you feel miserable. I don't have anyone like that, and am aware that I'm trending towards relying on complete strangers to blurt stuff to. Thanks for being that virtual person today.

Darn, my comment is in moderation. I must have used a bad word.. :(

What, no YouTube video how-to from Ken?

By Dangerous Bacon (not verified) on 14 Aug 2014 #permalink

dingo199,

And now this…Rife therapy for ebola.

I looked into Rife therapy some years ago, out of curiosity (and, to be honest, desperation). The central idea is that each pathogen has a resonant frequency (or frequencies), like a wineglass does. So if you apply those frequencies to a pathogen with enough power, it should shatter, just like the Memorex wineglass.

There are a number of problems I see with this (combining my knowledge of cell physiology and my somewhat limited A Level Physics):

1. Traditional Rife machines use a radiotransmitter putting out an RF carrier, amplitude-modulated with the required resonant frequency - the article you linked to suggests frequencies between 0.03 and 10,000 Hz. I'm skeptical about radio waves affecting microorganisms in this way. I know microwaves can induce vibrations in water molecules, but can RF make a bacterium or a virus, or any of its organelles, vibrate?

2. Even if the pathogen or its innards were persuaded to vibrate, they are made of flexible cell membranes and proteins, not rigid, brittle glass. I don't think cell lysis and a wineglass shattering are analogous. I can't imagine what power would be required to vibrate a pathogen to death, and what effects that might have on the rest of the patient.

3. The article mentions the effects of magnets on pathogens. There is some evidence that pulsed oscillating electromagnetic fields can kill or inhibit pathogens, here, for example (look at the studies using oscillating fields at the bottom of the page, not the standing fields ones at the top). However, a pulsed alternating magnetic field is not at all the same as the radio waves emitted by a traditional Rife gadget.

I do think more research into pulsed oscillating magnetic fields would be interesting, though whether these can penetrate tissue to have the same effects in vivo as they do in a petri dish is questionable. Equally questionable is whether the frequency used is important; the FDA research suggests that any frequency over 5 kHz works, which contradicts the Rife claims that very specific frequencies are necessary. I wonder how this works - perhaps microcurrents induced in the microorganisms? Resonance seems unlikely.

If, and it's a big if, pathogens could be persuaded to vibrate themselves to death, I would have thought using ultrasound would be more effective. Ultrasound could, I think, theoretically transfer enough energy into a pathogen to kill it. So could microwaves, but I imagine the frequencies required would heat up a number of organic molecules in the patient.

Some years ago you might have found me staring down a microscope at a sample of a pathogenic fungus on a microscope slide with an ultrasonic transducer glued to it. I used a frequency generator to work my way through various frequencies that allegedly kill fungae, in the hope that I would see the fungal hyphae or spores suddenly explode when I got to the right one. The results? I got a bad headache, the fungae were unaffected and I felt somewhat foolish (still do, a little).

Tangentially, I recall some odd similarities between Rife's work and Wilhelm Reich's. IIRC both claimed to have discovered some sort of cancer bacillus that can arise spontaneously from dead matter - Rife called his "Bacillus X" and Reich called his version "T-Bacillus". They both reported pleomorphism (bacteria transmuting into viruses, for example) too. I'm reminded of Robert O. Young, who also makes claims of pleomorphism. Perhaps it's all about misinterpreting what they see under a microscope - when you are looking at living things swimming about, you sometimes get very weird effects when they move in and out of the focal plane.

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 14 Aug 2014 #permalink

@Orac

I’d pay to watch that

It sure would be an entertaining thing to watch, but from some distance, please.
Plexiglas boxes of light may be immune to organic viruses, but us poor mortals have better avoid front-row seats.

By Helianthus (not verified) on 14 Aug 2014 #permalink

Pah - you naysayers know nothing about homeopathy. It works. I've been taking prophylactic doses of Crotalus Horridus (100c) for the last couple of weeks, and I'm completely Ebola free. As a bonus, it's also kept away crocodiles and rogue elephants.

By Rebecca Fisher (not verified) on 14 Aug 2014 #permalink

Orac, you may be getting quite a number of hits from South Africa soon.
The News24 website posted about the homeopathic "cure", so I placed a link to Respectful Insolence on the news article.
Hopefully, South Africans will come and see just how freaking stupid this homeopath is.

By Julian Frost (not verified) on 14 Aug 2014 #permalink

It doesn't surprise me that Rife machine treatments for Ebola infection are being promoted. What was a bit eyebrow-raising was to find an (allegedly) board-certified surgeon suggesting such therapy..

L. "Skip" Marcucci thinks we should try just about anything to counter the Ebola threat:

"Do we as physicians, health care providers, and fellow human beings owe it to those afflicted and in agony to at least be open and willing to consider an unproven, untested, “kitchen sink”, people-dying-gotta-try-everything treatment that might get them to the other side of this terrible disease?"

Other kitchen-sinkoid treatments for Ebola that Marcucci
discusses involve herbs and acupuncture.

(Marcucci, described in his bio as board certified in general and trauma surgery and critical care medicine, thoughtfully lists a set of antiviral Rife frequencies that people can try if they catch Ebola).

http://insidesurgery.com/2014/07/rife-treatment-stop-ebola-disease/

Marcucci is, as you might guess, heavily into "integrative medicine", promoting acupuncture and studying herbalism under someone named Dr. Tieraona Low Dog. Curiously (coincidentally) there is another trauma surgeon named Lisa Marcucci, who Orac took to task a few years ago for defending "battlefield acupuncture. She practices in Pennsylvania, a state where "Skip" studied (I can't find out his current location).

I wonder if these two are related....

By Dangerous Bacon (not verified) on 14 Aug 2014 #permalink

That should read (coincidentally?).

By Dangerous Bacon (not verified) on 14 Aug 2014 #permalink

I wonder exactly how big that kitchen sink Marcucci thinks we should throw at Ebola is? Rife? Check. Acupuncture? Check. How about homeopathy? Reiki? The "Secret'? Shamanic drumming? Sacrificing goats and chickens to the Orishas?

The problem with the ' people-dying-gotta-try-everything" approach is there's a whole lot of everything out there to try and no rational basis o which to discriminate many of them from the others.

And, quite frankly, I'd say your odds of survving after sacrificing a goat to Chango are ijust as good as your odds after trying Homeopathy or acupuncture.

We don't have the luxury of trying everything: we have an oligation instead to try those which are most likely to produce results--and unfortunately for the Reiki masters, homeopaths, and Rife energy advocates that means the interventions with the greatest prior plausibiity.

@Krebiozen

Sound can be used to "pop" cells. Look up sonication. The problem, though, is that a) it uses ultrasonic frequencies, b) can't be focused enough to target individual cells and c) is nondiscriminatory - it'll affect the whole cell, other cells in the area of effect, etc. Also, it produces a lot of heat. Here's another article about using sound waves to disrupt cell membranes, including the strengths and weaknesses of the technique.

I wonder if these two are related….

One and the same.

Lest there be the slightest doubt, the phone number here is the practice number here.

Thanks Todd, that was interesting. Those methods use brute force to lyse cells, breaking down cell membranes. Sadly, the sort of discriminatory killing of pathogens Rife thought he had achieved seems utterly implausible.

Have you seen the lists of "mortal oscillatory frequencies" available out there? For example this one? It's extraordinary how such entirely delusional bodies of 'information' are built up like this.

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 15 Aug 2014 #permalink

As long there is no international accepted and effectiv cure it is wise to have an open mind completely. Most great inventions and discoveries happened to take place through coincidences or by some misstakes in normal procedures. So one should not limit the possiblilities in any way.
Did anyone followed up the path with different homeopathic formulas, including the ones noted here up?
If not we where most greatful to receive any kind of such investigations. There is nothing to be lost to invite for all kinds of contributions.

By Lo Nilsson (not verified) on 15 Aug 2014 #permalink

Lo Nilsson - as there is no plausible explanation for how such a homeopathic cure could have any benefit, no evidence to date that it has, and no real justification for the formula, why is it worth the expense and considerable risk to investigate?

By Mephistopheles… (not verified) on 15 Aug 2014 #permalink

As good a place as any, I suppose.

"Between 2 p.m. and 6 p.m., Xavier would exchange a few words with each of the attendees in the queue. After 6 p.m., Xavier would go to a small room at the back of the spiritist center with two assistants." ...

"He would stay there until approximately 12 midnight writing homeopathic prescriptions along with brief spiritual advice, which were then handed to the attendees. These prescriptions and messages were allegedly authored by the spirits of physicians who communicated via Xavier's 'psychography'."

Wow Susan that link is something else.

All viruses are non-living entities and because they are liquid or gas they can penetrate the cell membrane damaging and destroying the DNA. These non-living entities are ALL the acidic waste products from diet, metabolism, respiration, environment and the biological transformations or evolutions of healthy cells into bacteria, yeast and mold that produce acidic waste products.

W T F

Robert O Young weighed in last week on his blog about Ebola.

I strongly suspect that the transmission of the Constipation Letters from San Quentin* aren't going to provide much scrip.

* Yah, I know.

"YoungaCare NOT ObamaCare!" is genuinely impressive.

According Wikiwel there are several cures for Ebola : Garcinia Kola, Colloiodal silver, Yu Ping Feng Pian,...

Surest cure for Ebola.....death.

Right now, death is more than 50% effective at curing the current crop of cases.

Most great inventions and discoveries happened to take place through coincidences or by some misstakes in normal procedures.

Not really, no. Those are just the ones that make the best stories.

So one should not limit the possiblilities in any way.

Really? In any way? So we shouldn't, for example, let these "investigations" you're calling for be limited by a little thing like the ethics of testing a treatment that's extremely unlikely to work on people who have a potentially fatal illness?

In other news:

Jake announces that RFK may release the missing chapters possibly because of Barry's intervening post.

AND WR knows that our very own Lawrence** is being paid by Mr Gates.

I swear, Jake's blog is starting to rival the Big Guns- to my unabashed delight.

** Lawrence and Rebecca should be congratulated for their ability to maintain conversations with Jake & Co.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 17 Aug 2014 #permalink

@Denise - Jake seems to not have liked my last post (it vanished from moderation) calling out one of his regular commenters (whiterose) for her accusations of genocide and blatant misunderstanding of things like biology, history and public health.

And Mike chimes in about nano-silver for ebola and Rima Laibow.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 17 Aug 2014 #permalink

@ Lawrence:

I thought he frowned upon AoA's policy of moderating critics out of the conversations?

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 17 Aug 2014 #permalink

I just noticed Jake's new post. He got that information from Focus Autism...Dolly & Barry Segal's organization.

Jake, of course, is taking credit for any move on the part of Kennedy to publish those mysterious missing pages. I and many of the RI Regulars have been posting multiple comments on every blog (Kennedy's "alternet" blog included), and I have yet to see Jake or Hooker post any comments.

BTW, Jake's buddy Brian Hooker is on the Board of Directors at Focus Autism...as is David Lewis.

@Denise - I guess "how dare I question a person who routinely compares the vaccine program to the holocaust & genocide?"

Jake seems to have developed quite a following among the "reality-challenged."

New readers of RI may not know but - believe it or not- several years ago, yours truly attempted to talk sense to Jake by questioning his belief in conspiracy theories that required a Rube Goldberg conglomeration of studied malfeasance by thousands of cheaters rather than one guy who massaged data AND about how his anti-vax activities on the internet ( then, he was AoA) were like painting himself into a corner when he entered the real life world of professionalism and employment because most people would not either accept his stance or his manner of exposition.

What I didn't mention is that because of his writing, his abilities ( or lack thereof) would be on public display to potential employers and university administrators.

Needless to say, my several days of effort for his benefit bore no fruit. However I do not, because of my failure in that instance, doubt my powers to assist students. He is the exception to the rule that we all encounter from time to time.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 17 Aug 2014 #permalink

Just in case any of you doubt that Jake lurks on Respectful Insolence...he provides the link on his blog, that I provided here on RI, to Kennedy's strong stance against Thimerosal. (I posted comments, some of the RI Regulars commented...and Jake was MIA):

"These statements by Kennedy represent a position that is markedly different from one expressed in a letter he had written to Medical News Today several months prior on March 28th, 2014 (boldface mine)...

“For two years, I have worked with a team of doctors and respected scientific researchers to assemble every published study on Thimeresol, the mercury based vaccine preservative still present in dangerous concentrations in US flu vaccines and pediatric vaccines worldwide. We have assembled and digested close to five hundred peer reviewed published pharmacological, toxicological, clinical, animal and human epidemiological studies in leading publications. These studies overwhelmingly implicate Thimeresol in a host of neurological injuries including ADD, ADHD, Speech delay, Language Delay, Tics, Misery Disorder and Autism....."

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/opinions/174696

Kelly, I "don't do Facebook" and your link failed to bring me to Laibow's Facebook page.

Why am I not surprised that Dr. L. is recommending a nano silver Ebola virus cure?

Rima Laibow has written to the heads of a number of African nations to tell them all about her wonderful nano-silver for Ebola.

The Pravda story linked by Brook is hilarious:

"Dr. Laibow could not be reached for comment. On Friday afternoon, after The New York Times emailed her a series of questions, two of her websites briefly became unavailable, then reappeared with headlines saying they were 'under attack' and directing readers to other sites selling a different product, Silver Solution."

Hey, that reminds me of something.... YES! Jim Stone was on this nonsense over two weeks ago:

"MY COMMENT: I may not be a doctor, but I am awful good with medical topics, and this rings 100 percent true, IT IS THE MOA which if combined with some of my medical knowledge, such as the fact that Broccoli is absolutely excellent for assisting the clotting of blood, that the active component of Noni (which is in pineapple juice) is strongly anti viral, and that cures such as colloidal silver, while good for bacterial infections does nothing for viruses, combine some real knowledge with what this doctor says and it is highly probable that Ebola can be shrugged off as a mild case of scurvy.

"Beware the current Colloidal Silver psy op, the actual cure for Ebola has been given to this web site."

Holy cats, Adams seems to have been the last one to the party....

Oh, OK, maybe he's just been conflicted:

Many people are right now saying colloidal silver might combat Ebola, although I personally haven't investigated this issue and therefore can't say whether silver might be effective as an internal defense against Ebola. Don't count on the government to test this, of course: they're only interested in high-profit drugs, not affordable natural solutions.

You "personally haven't investigated this," Mike? The big story that Jim Stone reasearched and broke a full week earlier? And you come up with THIS?

[N]ow is probably a good idea to stop smoking

That's not even English, Mike.

[S]top using chemical fragrance laundry detergents

Had that covered a long time ago.

[S]top using cheap personal care products

WHAT HAPPENED TO VALLEY OF LONGEVITY, MIKE? What is Ivory soap doing to my immune system? How can I pay to make it stop?

So, the takeaway message from Jim Stone is, don't listen to the crazy doctor and her nano silver Ebola virus prevention/cure...listen to me...the wacky pretend doctor.

So, the takeaway message from Jim Stone is, don’t listen to the crazy doctor and her nano silver Ebola virus prevention/cure…listen to me…the wacky pretend doctor.

It seems to have been quite a dust-up.

(If anybody makes it to the comment from "tryals," the blog referred to is, ah, well, here's a recent entry.)

Reading that sh!t on the internet will rot your brain.

Making fun of the quackery surrounding Ebola virus prevention and transmission, is, IMO, a public service, so that those who reside in those countries which have outbreaks, might think twice before they try bogus medicines to prevent transmission. We are still dealing with folk medicine and tradition, where family members prepare their dead kinfolk for burial following a death from any cause.

People can be incredibly cruel about suicidal deaths, which I have a hard time accepting. I wasn't a huge fan of Robin Williams, but rehashing the circumstances of his death strikes me as cold and unfeeling...especially for his close friends and for his family.

@ Narad:

I know. Heh.

At any rate, how come Mike hasn't shown his *other* article?

Ten ways to get your readers to part with their money

1. Frighten them about most consumer products
2. Scare them about health foods
3. Horrify them with tales of social unrest, poverty, war, food shortages, police states and civil strife
4. Get them to mistrust their government, most professionals and the media
5. Convince them that ingesting superfood- laden smoothies and handfuls of supplements will cure any ills
6. Set up a "lab" to investigate your competitors' products
7. Present yourself as a scientist, spiritual leader, ultra hip rapper, financial counsellor and secret pal
8. Give people inside information about the earth-shatttering catastrophes about to befall them
9. Make them believe that you're humble and a humanitarian
10. Sell lots of sh!t that you've instructed them is more important than rent, grocery and utility bills, recreational spending, vehicle servicing and new clothes.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 18 Aug 2014 #permalink

@ lilady:

Reading woo-drenched tripe wiil not "rot your brain". Trust me.
HOWEVER it will often cause you to explode into gales of laughter and uninformed observers might think you mad.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 18 Aug 2014 #permalink

How long did it take Dr. Rob Schneider and other crank bloggers/woo peddlers to jump on Robin Williams death, to attribute the medication he was prescribed for depression and Parkinson Disease, to come to the conclusion that prescribed medication triggered his depression...which led to Williams suicide?

http://thepoxesblog.wordpress.com/2014/08/18/on-the-death-of-robin-will…

When Dr. Schreiber and every other woo peddler come up with effective Parkinson Disease treatments without any side effects...they should share their research with the world.

"... it is highly probable that Ebola can be shrugged off as a mild case of scurvy."

Someone seriously said that? When hundreds have died and are dying of Ebola?

Words fail me.

Relax everyone and rest assured - I got the escape from catastrophic pandemics for nations like India and China, as well as for the whole world - the name of the escape is the Personal Virus and Cancer Killer - doing it for just a minute a day, no healthcare services are needed at all, for such things will simply become obsolete - The deadly Ebola disease can be wiped out within a few days, if everybody on Earth starts doing the Personal Virus and Cancer Killer for just a minute a day - then life on Earth will be restored to absolutely normal - all air lines will be services by regular flights, the mining and oil industries in Africa will not suffer any more losses and will be brought back to their maximum capacity, people will communicate without any fear of any infections at all, they will shake hands, embrace each other, kiss each other, make love to each other and experience what true love is - absolutely free, for everybody will be absolutely untouchable for any infections, cancers, diabetes and strokes and will not give a damn what sort of viruses stalk out there - Ebola, West Nile, SARS, HIV, Colds, Flues, Malaria, Yellow Fever, etc. I got the surefire weapon to eradicate the deadly Ebola virus right away, regardless of its replications and mutations and nobody will get sick or die from this abominable critter any more. The Personal Virus and Cancer Killer is just an exercise for a minute a day for prevention and for 3 minutes a day for max. 7 days to get cured. Ebola and any other bio-terrorist bugs are killed the moment they touch us. To disclose the incredible Virus and Cancer Killer (the greatest discovery in more than 2 million years of humankind on the planet) to everybody, the world leaders gotta pay me 2,25 trillion bucks - the amount of money can be negotiated with each country in the world. Once I get the money, everybody on Earth will know how to stay absolutely healthy all the time, all life long - never getting sick of any diseases even for a second.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 20 Aug 2014 #permalink

Cancerkiller,

Your miracle obviously hasn't cured your mental illness and delusions. You are a certified lunatic.

Stop spamming these science blogs comments with your idiotic bullsh!t. Do you think anyone reading this blog believes you?

Better still, just drop dead, idiot. I'm sick of dealing with a$$holes like you who pretend to have a "cure" if the price is right.

By Woo Fighter (not verified) on 20 Aug 2014 #permalink

I know it's off topic but can I just say I hate public discussions about mental illness? Not a single one of them lead to anything concrete getting done and quite a few of them (see media prattle after every single mass shooting) actually increase the stigma of mental illness.

Sadmar: Oh, god ssris, one of the most ineffective medicines known to man. I have told a few friends seeking help to at least discuss them with a doctor, but I've made it very clear that they didn't work very well for me.

Flip: I've been away, but I hope you're feeling better.

By Politicalguineapig (not verified) on 20 Aug 2014 #permalink

On a lighter note, I read both of the blog entries cited, and I've never seen such profound misunderstandings of the way the world works.

By Politicalguineapig (not verified) on 20 Aug 2014 #permalink

@Cancerkiller, the medical personnel dealing with the Ebola outbreak are suffering great pressure. You needn't reveal your secret to them to save their lives or the lives of their patients, but since you personally are immune to all diseases, why don't you go right over their and help them in patient care? They wouldn't even need to provide you with any protective gear, which would be helpful since they don't have enough.

This would have a two-fold benefit: it would help out a lot of desperate people, and it would demonstrate beyond a doubt the value of your discovery. Surely you need a graphic demonstration before the nations of the Earth will be willing to pony up that kind of money.

To disclose the incredible Virus and Cancer Killer (the greatest discovery in more than 2 million years of humankind on the planet) to everybody, the world leaders gotta pay me 2,25 trillion bucks – the amount of money can be negotiated with each country in the world.

Cancerkiller, I don't think that's an unreasonable price at all for all you say you can do. However, as a show of good faith and a demonstration of efficacy, would you first cure Ebola? I have no doubt that global leaders will write cheques to you immediately upon accomplishing this small task.

By Science Mom (not verified) on 20 Aug 2014 #permalink

I don’t think that’s an unreasonable price at all for all you say you can do.

His constant changing of the demand price severely undermines his bargaining position, if you ask me.

Is Kevin Worldsaviour / Cancerkiller just another waste-of-skin sh1tweasel spammer? Google says Yes!

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 20 Aug 2014 #permalink

Science Mom, when you go to a shop, you first pay the money and only after that you can take the commodity. I cannot apply the Personal Virus and Cancer Killer, for being just an easy exercise it will spread around the world like the explosion of a nuke. And nobody will pay me any money - I cannot trust the politicians. Everybody should know that only the Personal Virus and Cancer Killer can save the human civilization.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 20 Aug 2014 #permalink

Dear Cancerkiller,

Get help. Please. Or at least provide verifiable evidence that what you are selling actually works.

His constant changing of the demand price severely undermines his bargaining position, if you ask me.

Sigh. I guess it does have a Dr. Evil vibe to it.

By Science Mom (not verified) on 20 Aug 2014 #permalink

Everybody should know that only the Personal Virus and Cancer Killer can save the human civilization.

So what you are saying then is that these are one in the same product and we can't have a demonstration of just one aspect? Shucks.

By Science Mom (not verified) on 20 Aug 2014 #permalink

Chris, you can rest assured - The Personal Virus and Cancer Killer works 100% - nothing else on Earth kills viruses the moment they touch us - doing it for nearly 5 years now for a minute a day, I never got sick even of a common cold, though at winter air temperature of 5F I walk around town clad just in my summer shorts and T-shirt for hours, or swimming in the sea at sea water temperature of 41F without getting sick. In fact I am the healthiest person on the planet, because my discovery for a few days cleans the body of any viruses and other pathogens and never admits them back into the body, because they are killed the moment they touch me.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 20 Aug 2014 #permalink

Look, everyone, if you buy my discovery, you will stay absolutely healthy all the time, you will not feel cold like you did before you started doing it (for just a minute a day), you will be able to wear significantly less clothes, at winter time you will not have to switch on the heating of your home, you will never again buy drugs, see a doctor or hospital, undergo any surgery for tens of thousands of bucks, etc. You will possess the Iron Constitution, that's been just a dream of everybody for more than 2 million years of humankind on Earth.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 20 Aug 2014 #permalink

@CK - wow, only 2.5 trillion dollars? You must be such a humble individual......

"Chris, you can rest assured – The Personal Virus and Cancer Killer works 100%"

Prove it.

"Chris, you can rest assured – The Personal Virus and Cancer Killer works 100%"

... and if you don't have real evidence, just go away.

... And get help for your delusions.

I have stated my proofs clear enough.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 20 Aug 2014 #permalink

All of you are like the members of the Inquisition who sent Galileo Galiley to the stake when he discovered that the Earth is rotating.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 20 Aug 2014 #permalink

"I have stated my proofs clear enough."

Not to our satisfaction. You posted nothing but boasts and requests for cash, not evidence. Until we see verifiable evidence you can do has you say, you have nothing. So just go away...

... and get real help to deal with your delusions.

By the way, Galileo Galilei was not sent to a "stake." He was put under house arrest for what he actually published. So what have you published? Some promises and demands for cash? That is literally nothing

So get some real psychiatric help.

Look, Chris, your disbelief is your problem - the choice is yours - you either pay me to live a life never dreamed before, or you remain vulnerable to any possible diseases, get sick all the time by colds, flues, possibly cancer, diabetes and strokes - what a nice future for you, while I will stay absolutely healthy all the time - you will be like a walking hospital. How's that?

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 20 Aug 2014 #permalink

"I have stated my proofs clear enough."

In fact you have provided nothing but assertion. Your claim is so silly that I simple do not believe it.

And as I can see you are a stupid asshole, that's what you are. Nothing on Earth compares to my "assertion", that is by far more powerful than the immune system itself, keeping it intact all the time. Ebola virus destroys the immune system, but the Virus and Cancer Killer does not admit it into the body, for the virus is killed the moment it touches the human body - that way everybody doing that simple exercise stays absolutely untouchable for any viruses and any diseases, known on Earth. But stupids like you will never get what it's all about.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 21 Aug 2014 #permalink

More useless assertions and some abuse. Abuse is the last resort of those with no arguments.

OK, wish you all the best in staying as a walking hospital.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 21 Aug 2014 #permalink

CK: You mixed up ebola and AIDs, bub. You also don't understand what hospitals are- they're places to get well, not sicker.

By Politicalguineapig (not verified) on 21 Aug 2014 #permalink

I suggested Cancerkiller go help take care of Ebola patients because that is a good way to get infected if you're not immune as Cancerkiller is. I didn't suggest that s/he actually cure any victims as s/he has made it absolutely clear s/he will not. But Cancerkiller won't do that.

Okay. How about this: bats are a natural reservoir of rabies. A small bite on the face from a rabid bat -- not even particularly painful -- leads to an agonizing death from rabies if untreated.

So, Cancerkiller, how about getting publicly bitten by a rabid bat and doing without treatment? Or if you're squeamish about being bitten, maybe you can get the virus injected into your cheek (you want it in the face to speed up the virus' progress to the brain).

Don't want to mess around with rabies? Ground-dwelling rodents in the southwest United States harbor plague-bearing fleas. Why don't you go expose yourself to some good old plague?

I'm just making suggestions to help you out. The more lethal the diseases to which you deliberately and publicly expose yourself, the more willing people and nations will be to pony up the cash.

@Cancerkiller,

Can we get a double your money back guarantee on the 2.5 trillion.

First person that gets cancer or any infectious disease after doing your exercise every day for a month and you pay it all back 2X over.

I mean if it is such a sure shot you aren't taking any risks.

Yes, KayMarie, no problem at all, but first I gotta be paid the money. But I doubt you got the 2,25 trillion bucks - that money I want for the whole world and the whole world can pay that to me - just 300 bucks for everyone on Earth - and will be paid just once and for all - nobody will ever again buy any drugs, see a doctor or hospital, or undergo any surgery for tens of thousands of bucks.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 21 Aug 2014 #permalink

All of you are like the members of the Inquisition who sent Galileo Galiley to the stake when he discovered that the Earth is rotating.

Are you actually trolling? Because that's the wrongest version of the Galileo Gambit that I've ever heard.

1) Galileo was never sent to the stake. He ultimately got house arrest for "vehement suspicion of heresy", and died of natural causes at the age of 77. He was allowed to continue his work while in confinement, but the specific work that got him trouble was banned.

2) His arrest was more political than anything else; he managed to piss off powerful people within the church who had been debating various points pertaining to astronomy, and the last straw was some very unwise (and maybe unintentional) slandering of the Pope in his book debating the heliocentric versus geocentric world views. Notably, his contemporary Johannes Kepler faced no difficulties when he proposed his heliocentric solution (which, BTW, Galileo had rejected; Kepler solved the problem by working out that orbits are elliptical, which Galileo found aesthetically unpleasing -- this left Galileo with no proof of his conjecture).

3) The church didn't really have a problem with heliocentrism. They just wanted proof before accepting it, which is actually pretty reasonable, considering. Debate on the topic was widespread and accepted. The problem was when the pride of various individuals was pricked.

4) He didn't prove that the Earth rotates. Everybody already knew that, actually. The argument was about its *position* relative to the center of the universe. He also advanced the idea that the fixed stars were not truly fixed to a vast celestial sphere but were instead sprinkled through space, moving too slowly to be noticed, but his equipment did not have sufficient precision to prove this. He tried very hard, though.

By Calli Arcale (not verified) on 21 Aug 2014 #permalink

OK, I'll play along with this new chew toy:

So, Cancerkiller, (sic) are you saying that once I learn your secret one-minute preventative little exercise, I can do anything I want and never get sick? I can smoke, eat anything, gain 50 pounds, inflict high cholesterol and high blood pressure on myself, drink a fifth of vodka a day and never suffer any consequences?! What about death: if someone never gets sick, does that mean they never die?

If your secret works, how can you live with yourself watching all the death in the world on a daily basis, that you can prevent? Wouldn't you just ask for a reasonable amount of money, enough to live a nice life, and better the whole of mankind? Just think of all that fame: you'd be a hero all around the world. To hold such a "cure" ransom for such a huge amount of money makes you a monster.

How do you plan to prove your claims before receiving any money? Are we just supposed to believe some random a$$hole (to use your poetic word) on the internet because you say so?

And how are all the nations of the world supposed to come together with this payment? If one country doesn't chip in, does that mean the citizens of that country won't be given your secret? And how are we supposed to get in touch with you?

For someone making all kinds of medical claims, the fact that you're ignorant about the cause of the common cold leads me to doubt, question, ridicule and laugh at every single word you've typed. Protip: you don't catch a cold walking outside in the winter in shorts, or swimming in cold water.

The residents of your town must be amused to see you walking down the street in the winter wearing nothing more than a T-shirt and shorts. Does your magic miracle also prevent someone from "feeling" uncomfortable in cold temperatures outside too? Or are you superhuman?

I'm still convinced Cancerkiller is an elaborate and persistent Poe, or else this is some kind of performance art or social experiment. He can't possibly be this serious and deluded.

By Woo Fighter (not verified) on 21 Aug 2014 #permalink

Ebola virus destroys the immune system, but the Virus and Cancer Killer does not admit it into the body, for the virus is killed the moment it touches the human body

There you go, the basis of a simple and reliable clinical trial, one that could actually be ethically conducted because it would not place anyone at risk.

Three cohorts, one of which deos your cancer killer exercise for one minute a day, one of which does a sham cancer killer exercise for one minute a day, and one of which does not exercise. After 30 days we apply a solution of an attenuated virus to their skin, wait 30 minutes, then swab the application spot and attempt to recover live virus in vitro.

If no live virus is recovered from any member of the genuine cancer killer cohort but is recovered from every member of the sham-exercise cohort you've proven efficacy.

Of course, there'd have to be appropriate blinds--neither the subjects not those applying/reculturing the virus would know which cohort the subjects were part of.

I'd say a small sample size would do for start--say 50 subjects in each cohort?

Get back to us when ths ahs been done and credibly documented. Hey--it's a very small bar to meet when you're looking at a trillion dollar pay-off.

Sorry-two cohorts. I'd thought about including a no-treatment group, but the sham treatment group should serve well enough on its own.

Delusional loon: "Look, Chris, your disbelief is your problem "

Then prove us wrong, post your evidence.

The Personal Virus and Cancer Killer works 100% – nothing else on Earth kills viruses the moment they touch us...

Does this miracle cure also work on bacteria?

If no, the won't we still get sick?

If yes, won't that do bad things to our digestive tract and vitamin K production?

Look, all of you, I can see you don't believe what I am saying, but in fact the Virus/Cancer Killer kills any pathogens of which the viruses are the most infectious and bacteria and germs are much weaker, you should know that. The Virus/Cancer Killer prevents you 100% from getting sick of any infections, any cancers, diabetes and strokes - the major and most dangerous diseases known on Earth, but I can see you don't pay any attention to that and just jabber shucks.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 21 Aug 2014 #permalink

I can see you don’t pay any attention to that and just jabber shucks.

What do you want to bet that you'd test positive for CMV or EBV?

FYI I cannot test positive for any viruses, for my body kills any infectious critters the moment they touch me - you should have understood that already, chump.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 21 Aug 2014 #permalink

In fact I am the healthiest person on the planet, because my discovery for a few days cleans the body of any viruses and other pathogens and never admits them back into the body

Did you kill all your commensal gut microflora as well? How does your miraculous method distinguish between commensal and pathogenic microorganisms?

" for my body kills any infectious critters the moment they touch me –"

Prove it.

FYI I cannot test positive for any viruses, for my body kills any infectious critters the moment they touch me – you should have understood that already, chump.

Then you should have no trouble putting your money where your mouth is, fool.

My conclusion about you is that you just want to remain walking hospitals and by no means to become absolutely healthy all the time, all your extended lives - extended, because bodies that don't fight any diseases at all live much longer. Suit yourself.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 21 Aug 2014 #permalink

Does your Virus/Cancer Killer exercise involve rhythmic rubbing of certain bodily parts? I bet it does.

By NumberWang (not verified) on 21 Aug 2014 #permalink

Poor CancerKiller. His body kills all bacteria the moment they come into contact. He must have a terrible time with his digestive tract, in that case, robbed as it would be of all its commensal bacteria. I presume also that he has a crippling vitamin B12 deficiency, given that he has none of the bacteria that normally manufacture it for us. I wonder if this absence of gut flora has caused his digestive tract to completely shut down; it might explain why he appears to be completely full of feces.

By Calli Arcale (not verified) on 21 Aug 2014 #permalink

Once I get the cash I will describe it to you in detail, so you will do it properly and reach the best results - staying absolutely healthy all the time, regardless of what sort of viruses stalk out there - Ebola, West Nile, HIV, Colds, Flues, Malaria, etc. for you will be absolutely untouchable for any infections, any cancers, etc.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 21 Aug 2014 #permalink

3.5 trillion should buy a lot of sharks with lasers on their heads.

By Militant Agnostic (not verified) on 21 Aug 2014 #permalink

Calli Arcale, your jabbering is absolutely lacking any sense and is equal to BS.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 21 Aug 2014 #permalink

Cancerkiller, why would anybody pay you so much money when I'm offering anyone the exact same treatment as you for only $100! Don't think it's the same as yours? Just give me the cash and I'll tell you what it is, then you'll see!

Once I get the cash I will describe it to you in detail, so you will do it properly and reach the best results – staying absolutely healthy all the time, regardless of what sort of viruses stalk out there – Ebola, West Nile, HIV, Colds, Flues, Malaria, etc. for you will be absolutely untouchable for any infections, any cancers, etc.

I take it even if you get your 2.5 treeeelion dollars then we're sh!t out of luck for parasitic infections.

By Science Mom (not verified) on 21 Aug 2014 #permalink

Suit yourself.

Country garland in the wind and the rain
Wherever he goes the people all complain

AdamG, you just don't understand - my discovery is so effective that it is light years ahead of any ancient and modern medical achievements - no Hippocrates, or any other ancient doc, or any famous medicines - Chinese, Tibetan, Indian, etc. or any modern doc, can clean the human body of any viruses and never again admit them into the body and to keep it absolutely healthy all the time.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 21 Aug 2014 #permalink

"my discovery is so effective that it is light years ahead of any ancient and modern medical achievements "

Prove it.

my discovery is so effective that it is light years ahead of any ancient and modern medical achievements

And not worth a red cent on the open market, thanks to your exquisite mastery of marketing. Suit yourself.

Chris, I myself am the proof - I cannot get sick of any infections, any cancers, diabetes and strokes - no way - I am the healthiest person on the planet - not for nothing the Virus/Cancer Killer is the greatest discovery in more than 2 million years of humankind on the planet.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 21 Aug 2014 #permalink

CK: extended, because bodies that don’t fight any diseases at all live much longer.

Yeah sure...tell that to people who have bubble-boy syndrome and have to live in a disinfected enclosed environment all their lives. I wonder how many make it to 50, let alone 90. (If anyone knows the right name for that particular syndrome, let me know.)
Personal story here: In my family, there's been cases of malaria, pericarditis, typhus, and for the older generation, measles and mumps. My great-grandparents lived into their nineties, my grandparents are nearly there, and almost all the middle-aged members of my family have no serious complaints. (The few who do, mostly have weight related issues or some lingering problems from surgeries.)
Personally, I think a person's immune system needs colds and flus to chew on periodically. Keeps the T-cells and white blood cells from being bored.

By Politicalguineapig (not verified) on 21 Aug 2014 #permalink

"Chris, I myself am the proof "

Except we don't believe you, because there is more proof that you are either a liar or delusional.

my discovery is so effective that it is light years ahead of any ancient and modern medical achievements

Funny thing is, so is mine! That's exactly why I think we've stumbled onto the exact same discovery. However, I realize the potential good this can do for the world, so I'm unselfishly asking for only $100. Why would anybody pay you when I have made the same discovery?

Virus/Cancer Killer is the greatest discovery in more than 2 million years of humankind on the planet.

See, this is your problem: You just plain don't understand numbers. It's no surprise that you'll never succeed in business.

@Cancerkiller - I figure that my share of your fee as a percentage of the total world's wealth would be about 37 cents US (dropping by the day). If I send that to you, would you be willing to share your amazing secret? Thanks in advance!

By Mephistopheles… (not verified) on 21 Aug 2014 #permalink

Note that this a hard currency offer!

By Mephistopheles… (not verified) on 21 Aug 2014 #permalink

Mephy, my discovery will make everybody on Earth feel like a God, because only Gods never get sick of any diseases whatsoever, it is not stated anywhere that say, Zeus had a running nose, or got sick of a cold, or a flue, a cancer, etc. The 2,25 trillion bucks will be taxpayer's money and will paid to me by the governments of all countries in the world. Then everyone on this planet will be the beneficiary of the Personal Virus and Cancer Killer to keep everybody (kids and adults) absolutely healthy all the time, all life long. That's how it is, Mr. O'Brien.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 21 Aug 2014 #permalink

I suspect Zeus is rather pleased he never got sick of a flue, although being a god he could just turn into a swan and fly away.

I do like the argument that because an imaginary being never got sick, this magic must work. It is one of the stronger arguments I have seen to date.

How sure are we that CK isn't a Poe?

By ebrillblaiddes (not verified) on 21 Aug 2014 #permalink

I'll get in on the fun.

Cancerkiller, you are doing the whole thing wrong. No one here has any power to pay you the money. You need to go to national TV with that, secure a spot on a talkshow or two. Than throw down the challenge to all those stupid unbelivers - have them bring you ebola virus and inject it into your body. Think how much egg will they have on their faces when you remain perfectly healthy! And all of this watched live by people around the globe.

Afterwards you'll get the money easily. Because lets be honest, how much could we give you collectively here, on RI? I'd say being the deadbeats we are we probably could cough up about 2.50$. Not very impressive.

And I stress - you need not reveal how you achieved that before getting money. But you need better marketing strategy, to go out there and knock people off their legs with your godlike immunity. Just posting about it is not spectacular enough.

By The Smith of Lie (not verified) on 21 Aug 2014 #permalink

because only Gods never get sick of any diseases whatsoever, it is not stated anywhere that say, Zeus had a running nose, or got sick of a cold, or a flue, a cancer,

Oh, I don't know, Zeus did have this killing headache once. It turned out it was Athena trying to be born. Does this count as teratoma?
It actually looks more like ex utero pregnancy.

I would also avoid mistletoe, if I was you. Baldr wasn't feeling that good after encountering it.

By Helianthus (not verified) on 21 Aug 2014 #permalink

How sure are we that CK isn’t a Poe?

I'd say "pretty damn sure."

my discovery will make everybody on Earth feel like a God, because only Gods never get sick of any diseases whatsoever

An intercourse not well designed
For beings of a golden kind

In any case, becoming equal to Gods (at least never getting sick of any diseases known on the planet all the time, all life long) has its price.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 22 Aug 2014 #permalink

Well then Cancerkiller, shouldn't your eternal life alone bring you vast riches and rewards? I understand that's how vampires do it.

By Science Mom (not verified) on 22 Aug 2014 #permalink

Well then I guess my Poe-detector needs calibrated, because it went off for that over-the-top first post of its at 98. I mean, guaranteeing that the airline industry will run on time? That can't be done short of a pact with Satan.

By ebrillblaiddes (not verified) on 22 Aug 2014 #permalink

I notice it's 24 hours later and Cancerkiller hasn't attempted to answer any of my questions.

Crickets.

By Woo Fighter (not verified) on 22 Aug 2014 #permalink

Woo Fighter, I cannot drop down to your stupid level of reasoning, for you are simply a nit.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 22 Aug 2014 #permalink

Science Mom, I never said my discovery guarantees eternal life, it guarantees a rather extended life without being disturbed by any diseases, known on the planet - I guess a life like that is worth living - One will never miss anything due to staying sick at home or hospital - not a single date, not a single day at work, if you are a singer you will never postpone your concerts and shows, etc. What do you think about that?

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 22 Aug 2014 #permalink

I must say I'm amused by someone accusing those who refuse to believe his extraordinary claims without a shred of evidence of being stupid. However, I always feel a little uncomfortable when someone with apparent serious mental health issues lands here.

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 22 Aug 2014 #permalink

@CancerKiller

I'm convinced. To whom should I make out my check? And do you have a discounted rate for individuals? I'm afraid I don't have the monetary resources of an entire country. Once I make out the check, to what address should I mail it?

Thanks!

not a single date, not a single day at work, if you are a singer you will never postpone your concerts and shows, etc. What do you think about that?

I'm married, like to miss work and don't sing.

By Science Mom (not verified) on 22 Aug 2014 #permalink

Thank you Todd, I appreciate your opinion because you trust me and you will not regret that - you will be the second healthiest person on the planet for the rest your extended life. Please send me your e-mail address so we can talk about the discovery in details. Don't worry - You will stay absolutely untouchable for any diseases, known on the planet - any infections, any cancers, diabetes and strokes - guaranteed.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 22 Aug 2014 #permalink

Seems like you are a great individualist, Science Mom.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 22 Aug 2014 #permalink

@CancerKiller

Why don't you just share the payment and address information here. I'm sure there must be some other people reading who would love to buy your cure! Once they send you the money, then you will have their contact info to send them your secret.

you will be the second healthiest person on the planet for the rest your extended life.

Wait, i'm confused! Wouldn't you two be tied for healthiest person? Or does one have to pay double for the full version, which will make us as healthy as you?

Also, if people aren't immortal after your method, what exactly do they die of?

AdamG, I already explained that to Science Mom.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 22 Aug 2014 #permalink

No Todd, such information is normally shared in private.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 22 Aug 2014 #permalink

AdamG, I already explained that to Science Mom.

No, all you said was that your method extends life, but doesn't make you immortal:

Science Mom, I never said my discovery guarantees eternal life, it guarantees a rather extended life without being disturbed by any diseases

So, what ends this 'rather extended life'? What will you die of, cancerkiller?

@CancerKiller

I can find plenty of online purveyors of goods and services that provide their information online so that interested customers can buy said goods and services. Unless, of course, you're not a legitimate business, in which case I can understand your not wanting to divulge that information.

AdamG, I will of course die of what everybody normally dies - of age, only in my case that will be an advanced age, probably more than 160 years, for doing the Virus/Cancer Killer I feel younger every day.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 22 Aug 2014 #permalink

AdamG, I will of course die of what everybody normally dies – of age

Old age is not an actual cause of death. People become more likely to succumb to illnesses as they age but death doesn't just suddenly happen with no proximate cause.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_causes

So again, since you're not immortal, what specific diseases or conditions are likely cause your death at the advanced age of >160?

Cancer Killer-could I please have a skin biopsy and a fecal sample to verify that you are indeed germ free? No need to sterilize the area before biopsy, just whack off a chunk of skin with some scissors, and drop it in a clean tube. I'd be glad to verify that its virus and bacteria free,and I think people would be glad to pony up the money.

BTW-atomic blasts don't propagate around the world very well, the energy of the explosion drops as the cube of the distance from the origin. The fallout is a bit problematic a few kilometers downwind, but we've set off quite a few bombs, and we are all still here. Does your treatment also render you resistant to the effects of high dose radiation? (Bone marrow depletion, sloughing of the endothelium of the GI tract, neuronal swelling)

By Dr.Science (not verified) on 22 Aug 2014 #permalink

When I am 160 probably I will know and I will tell you, if you are still alive.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 22 Aug 2014 #permalink

When I am 160 probably I will know and I will tell you, if you are still alive.

Of course I will be! Remember, I've developed the exact same treatment method as you.

The Virus/Cancer Killer prevents you 100% from getting sick of any infections, any cancers, diabetes and strokes – the major and most dangerous diseases known on Earth

So it will only prevent infections, cancers, diabetes, and strokes? How do you know what it will prevent and what it won't?
The number one cause of death in the US is heart disease...I notice you didn't list this! How does your method prevent heart disease, which is not caused by any bacteria or virus?

By cleaning the body of any viruses that the immune system constantly kills, the oxygen content of the blood increases and every cell of the human body receives more oxygen that prevents cancer as well as being very useful for the heart muscle cells, so no heart disease will develop at all. Apart from that, doing the Virus/Cancer Killer you will not have to switch on the heating of your home in winter at all, for you will not feel any cold even at outside air temperatures rather much below the zero. And if everybody does not heat his home, imagine how much energy will be spared - billions of tons of fuels (and the air we breathe will stay much cleaner), billions of megawatts of electricity, etc. You see, the discovery will be more useful to all of us than we can imagine.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 22 Aug 2014 #permalink

By cleaning the body of any viruses that the immune system constantly kills, the oxygen content of the blood increases

Do you have evidence that your blood oxygen level increased following treatment?

every cell of the human body receives more oxygen that prevents cancer as well as being very useful for the heart muscle cells, so no heart disease will develop at all

How exactly does this supposed hyperoxygenation prevent both cancer and heart disease? You haven't given an actual mechanism, you've simply stated "my treatment increases the oxygen levels, and therefore no disease happens!"

...the oxygen content of the blood increases and every cell of the human body receives more oxygen that prevents cancer as well...

It seems to me that if there is more O2, there will be more oxidative stress, which is well known to cause cancer, hence the guidelines to increase intake of anti-oxidants.

Johnny, obviously you know nothing about cancer causation - exactly the lack of oxygen in the cells is the major cause of cancer.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 22 Aug 2014 #permalink

exactly the lack of oxygen in the cells is the major cause of cancer

Do you have any sources to confirm this? Because most of the actual science says the opposite, that oxidative stress (high levels of Reactive Oxygen Species) actually causes cancer:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2990475/

I'm beginning to be concerned that you don't understand any cancer biology, cancerkiller. Or really any biology, actually. In your own words, what's the difference between a cancer cell and a normal cell?

AdamG, there is no hyperoxygenation at all - simply instead of viruses and oxygen in every cell of the body we have just oxygen, but its increased content is not harming the cell, it improves the vitality of the cell. I feel it myself - I am not cold at very low air or sea water temperatures, I do not switch on the heating of my home in winter at all - all thanks to the increased vitality of my body - the healthiest body on Earth.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 22 Aug 2014 #permalink

Alright, mind your own business, if I was talking to walls, they would understand me better than you do.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 22 Aug 2014 #permalink

there is no hyperoxygenation at all – simply instead of viruses and oxygen in every cell of the body we have just oxygen, but its increased content is not harming the cell, it improves the vitality of the cell.

soooo there's increased oxygen content, but not hyperoxygenation. Got it. Why do you believe this increased content improves the vitality of the cell? How specifically did you measure cell vitality when you tested this method?

I have decided to do the Mashed Potato rather than the Cancerkiller because it is a) more fun and b) tasty with gravy.

By Mephistopheles… (not verified) on 22 Aug 2014 #permalink

I just gotta tell you one last thing - STUPIDS ARE INVINCIBLE!

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 22 Aug 2014 #permalink

STUPIDS ARE INVINCIBLE!

I'd say this is accurate, given your claim of invincibility.

This truly left me feeling nauseous. "Panic in Level 4"...

I don't know if there is anything at all in human experience more truly suicidal to try. i suppose going for a paddle in a swimming pool research reactor might do it. Sadly we can't currently throw ourselves in to a black hole.

By Gemman Aster (not verified) on 22 Aug 2014 #permalink

Cancerkiller,

Since viral infections, bacterial infections and cancer have very different modes of operation, there is no simple way of evading them. No one has a perfect immune system, or perfect DNA repair mechanisms, and there is no exercise that could possibly make them so. If you are exposed to a pathogen that you are not immune to, you will get sick just like anyone else. If the right bits of your DNA are damaged and not perfectly repaired, you will develop cancer.

You should seriously consider the possibility that your apparent invulnerability to disease and inability to feel the cold may be symptoms of a serious illness. Bipolar disorder springs to mind as one possibility - I have known people with this condition who have disrobed in freezing conditions, with no apparent discomfort. Some thyroid disorders can cause similar symptoms - both cold tolerance and delusions. Do you find you require less sleep too?

I strongly advise you to see a doctor and explain to them your beliefs about your discovery. At the very least let them check you over to see if you are really as healthy as you think you are. Please seek help before you hurt yourself or someone else.

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 22 Aug 2014 #permalink

CK:for you will not feel any cold even at outside air temperatures rather much below the zero.

Dude,, speaking as a denizen of a place that regularly gets below-zero temps in winter, humans have the shiver response for a reason. We need to notice when it's cold, so we don't freaking lose our toes.

CK: I am not cold at very low air or sea water temperatures, I do not switch on the heating of my home in winter at all – all thanks to the increased vitality of my body – the healthiest body on Earth.

You live in Florida or California, right? I bet you've never seen a real winter in your life. Really, you need to go back to school or another institution, because you have no idea how anything in the world works.

By Politicalguineapig (not verified) on 22 Aug 2014 #permalink

Cancerkiller has to be a poe surely?

Science Mom, when you go to a shop, you first pay the money and only after that you can take the commodity. I cannot apply the Personal Virus and Cancer Killer, for being just an easy exercise it will spread around the world like the explosion of a nuke. And nobody will pay me any money – I cannot trust the politicians. Everybody should know that only the Personal Virus and Cancer Killer can save the human civilization.

Not true. In many fields people are requested to pay a deposit with the remainder to be delivered on satisfactory completion of the task. This works well because if you are wary of not being paid, you have a financial incentive from the client to continue and they are more satisfied that you will deliver what is promised. I have no doubt people would be willing to pay a percentage of your asking price, say 10%, to cure the same percentage of affected people. If it works, they would gladly hand over the rest of the money for cures for everyone else. Heck, you wouldn't even need to reveal *how* it works, just that it does. You don't need to prove that it works at all before being paid, that's the point of a deposit. Get some money upfront then just do what you say you can do and get the rest later. You could add in milestone payments so you're not waiting until the end but getting a steady stream of money as you cure more and more people. You can even sneak in some stuff about no returns or refunds (common in cases where payment is for non-returnable things like digital items and knowledge, which is more legit than it sounds).

You could even add a non-disclosure clause to a payment contract so nobody reveals your secret - it's a win/win. If someone breaks the disclosure clause you sue, you win, more money for you. You win again even if someone tells. Proprietary tech? Get a patent. Can't get a patent, doesn't matter you can still be known as the inventor and get a Nobel, be known as the saviour, the saint of good health - win again for you. Geez, imagine being rich, famous, righteous all at the same time. ... All for a mere piddly down payment with the full fee on completion!

All you need is a lawyer to write up the contract and some way to present it, like a website or a phone call to the UN or something. In fact a lot of freelancers out there do it so all you'd need is the contract and a website and some marketing. No need to cure everyone at once and with that non-disclosure clause you can just cure individuals at a reasonably high rate, deposit on signing the agreement, full payment after you've taught them this exercise.

No Todd, such information is normally shared in private.

Tell that to the tens of thousands of people who sell online, especially freelancers. Um, this IS a poe, right? Nobody using blog comments can be that obtuse. Todd W is right only salespeople who are frauds hide their contact info. Write up a contract and sign it, post it to Todd to sign, have a copy each, send him an invoice, Todd pays a deposit, you teach him the cure, he pays the rest. Done. Easy. Use dropbox and paypal if you need to.

All of you are like the members of the Inquisition who sent Galileo Galiley to the stake when he discovered that the Earth is rotating.

Not only wrong about the stake but... You do know that earth rotation was figured out *long* before that, right? Like, in the 4th century BCE? Maybe you meant 'revolve', but even that would be wrong. See #127.

Nothing on Earth compares to my “assertion”, that is by far more powerful than the immune system itself, keeping it intact all the time.

Reminds of that old line about how if the lie is big enough people will believe it. I guess Cancerkiller thinks that if the claim is extraordinary enough, people shouldn't demand evidence.

Damn, screwed up the quotes...

@PGP

Flip: I’ve been away, but I hope you’re feeling better.

I am a bit. It's touch and go. Thank you for your concern, it means a lot to have people - even if they're just fellow commenters - think of me.

I know it’s off topic but can I just say I hate public discussions about mental illness? Not a single one of them lead to anything concrete getting done and quite a few of them (see media prattle after every single mass shooting) actually increase the stigma of mental illness.

Actually I've found that a lot of the time it spurs rebuttals of the usual tropes. For one example there was a large argument on one news report after one religious person attempted to argue that Williams' death was a "murder" because suicide is a sin and Williams' wife 'aided' (through neglect). That's pretty offensive and if argued here the commenter would have been royally kicked about with data about mental health issues. For myself, his death was a wake up call to seek more support from my family - which I have received since.

Maybe nothing gets done on a larger scale but there are plenty of people out there sharing and discussing and attempting to move the stigma away on a smaller more intimate level.

Actually the private conversations I have had with numerous people recently suggest to me that a far more worrying problem is the amount of people who: offer unsolicited armchair advice about a medical issue; run towards 'natural' 'lifestyle' suggestions for change; and accommodate woo (meditation seems to be a gateway point) for mental health treatment. From fellow sufferers to (to borrow a term) neurotypicals alike. More discussion is needed of the science behind psychology and proper treatments, not less.

Speaking of stigma...

Your miracle obviously hasn’t cured your mental illness and delusions. You are a certified lunatic.

Woo fighter, that doesn't exactly help. You can be mentally ill and not believe in woo you know.

Better still, just drop dead, idiot. I’m sick of dealing with a$$holes like you who pretend to have a “cure” if the price is right.

No, really that doesn't help.

Flip: Actually the private conversations I have had with numerous people recently suggest to me that a far more worrying problem is the amount of people who: offer unsolicited armchair advice about a medical issue; run towards ‘natural’ ‘lifestyle’ suggestions for change; and accommodate woo (meditation seems to be a gateway point) for mental health treatment. From fellow sufferers to (to borrow a term) neurotypicals alike. More discussion is needed of the science behind psychology and proper treatments, not less.

Yeah, I agree. I try not to offer unsolicited advice, and when I do offer solicited advice, it's more of 'well, this worked for me, this didn't, let me know if you'd like to hang out and let's stay in touch.' Did that for a former high school friend today.
I feel I may have flubbed by not mentioning looking into medications- but I don't feel safe doing that in a public forum, and back in high school he was pretty darn crunchy. Plus, since he's pretty smart, I kinda assumed he already explored that option.

I lose patience fast with woo crap, especially when it comes from people who ought to know better (i.e, my family.) I agree that more discussion is needed about mental health issues, but I kinda feel that no discussion is better than having it done badly.

By Politicalguineapig (not verified) on 22 Aug 2014 #permalink

Cancerkiller has to be a poe surely?
With all his new-found abilities and fully-potentiated metabolism, it is sad that he has nothing better to do than hang around trolling skeptic websites.

every cell of the human body receives more oxygen that prevents cancer as well as being very useful for the heart muscle cells, so no heart disease will develop at all
You would think that some evidence for this would have emerged from all the research with hyperbaric chambers.

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 22 Aug 2014 #permalink

You see, the discovery will be more useful to all of us than we can imagine.

*

Yah, I guess it kind of blοws then that you can't even keep your shіt together long enough to muster a coherent response when people actually waste time indulging your day-pass performances.

Now there's one thing the "Virus/Cancer Killer" certainly can't do, and that's to set floats within floats, which has to do with why I'm going to use two comments. What I would like you to try to do is to liken the V/CK to some sort of genuinely recognizable cultural token.

Just babbling about how "everybody will be absolutely untouchable for any infections, cancers, diabetes and strokes and will not give a damn what sort of viruses stalk out there – Ebola, West Nile, SARS, HIV, Colds, Flues, Malaria, Yellow Fever, etc." is not going to impress anybody. You may not like it, but you've been making a show of putting on such random, public billion/trillion–dollar tantrum-demands for long enough that I suspect you probably have at least a tenuous grasp of this situation.

So, the first thing I'd like you to do – and bear in mind that this is not a "test" of any sort, but pro bono marketing advice – is to consider this as prolegomenon.

* Emphasis and reference added.

Is. To. Consider. This. As. Prolegomenon.

OK, so you've already made it abundantly clear that you're basically one of the Valley People at heart.

The gods of the valley are not the gods of the hills, and you shall understand it.

OK, so let's start selling this stuff. I mean, you're not about to just roll over and lose to JULIE FREAKING TUPLER, are you?

Fortunately, the New Seekers are clearly not a relevant exemplar, because, quite frankly, the video of "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing" conjures mental images that make Rumours seem tame by comparison.

But... what, from a marketing perspective, is the V/CK really like? People need to understand.

Let's consider a specific context. Would you say that it's more analogous to this* or to this?

* "I will not be threatened by a walking meatloaf."

Look, Krebiozy, I am untouchable for any diseases, known on Earth, because the Virus/Cancer Killer is by far more powerful than the human immune system, keeping it intact all the time. And the Great Killer that does the great job for me is ITS GREATNESS - THE OXYGEN - the greatest killer of any infectious critters in the Universe - that's why I got the healthiest body in the Universe - regardless of your "esteemed knowledge" about everything - your "knowledge" is equal to merely nothing, but you feel very comfortable within its realm.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 23 Aug 2014 #permalink

Flip, you are a bit wrong - I do not have to go to anybody to cure him - once I describe the Personal Virus and Cancer Killer, it is so simple, everybody will start doing it and will feel great results in just a few days - the knowledge of staying absolutely healthy all the time will spread very quickly around the world, for it is a ready to use item. That's why I want the money - I guarantee 100% that everybody will forget about any diseases, drugs, doctors, hospitals, pharmaceuticals, etc. Everybody (kids and adults) will stay absolutely healthy all the time - something unthinkable for more than 2 million years of humankind on the planet.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 23 Aug 2014 #permalink

I guarantee 100% that everybody will forget about any diseases, drugs, doctors, hospitals, pharmaceuticals, etc.

What action will you take if people don't forget abut any diseases, drugs, doctors, hospitals, pharmaceuticals, etc.? What backs up your guarantee? What prevents you from not answering the phone after you receive payment?

My offer of US$0.37 still stands, though if it proves out I may be able to scrape up another $0.37 later to pay for my wife's share.

By Mephistopheles… (not verified) on 23 Aug 2014 #permalink

Cancerkiller,

And the Great Killer that does the great job for me is ITS GREATNESS – THE OXYGEN – the greatest killer of any infectious critters in the Universe

But oxygen is most certainly not "the greatest killer of any infectious critters in the Universe", as a moment's thought reveals. Most "infectious critters" are exposed to our atmosphere which is 21% oxygen (21 kPa) without dying. Our bodies have no way of increasing that concentration; it is impossible for any exercise to increase oxygen levels over 21 kPa, in practice they are much lower: arterial blood oxygen is about 12 kPa. You can increase oxygen levels if you breathe higher concentrations, but anything greater than 30 kPa is toxic. How can levels of oxygen in the body that are much lower than those in the air kill "infectious critters" when air doesn't kill them?

A few pathogens are obligate anaerobes i.e. they are killed by oxygen, but the great majority either tolerate, require or thrive in the presence of oxygen. Staphylococcus aureus, for example, actually increases toxin production at higher oxygen concentrations (in the presence of CO2).

Cancer cells also require oxygen to live; though they may tolerate or even grow better at lower oxygen levels than normal cells, they are not killed by oxygen levels that normal cells can survive.

Your claims make no sense in the light of what we know about pathogens and cancer.

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 23 Aug 2014 #permalink

@210, Cancerkiller

I guess you missed the bit about non-disclosure clauses and upfront deposits. You clearly have no experience running a business, you can't market let alone come up with a practical plan to sell your 'cure'. My guess is if you're not a poe, you have deliberately set the bar so high that nobody would ever be able to meet your terms.

All the better for your smug hubris, right?

The bit about oxygen makes me wonder if CK's arcane method involves a variant of deep breathing, yogic breathing, Qi Gong or such like.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 23 Aug 2014 #permalink

@ Flip:

I'm glad you're doing a little better. It's not easy. I am certainly not immune and have had quite a few lows myself.

I've tried to build up a repetoire of actvities that seem to have helped in the past: exercise, talking to someone, not breaking my schedule, trying to fix things at home, pretending I'm all right even if I'm not ( sometimes you wind up feeling better), having recreational activities that involve a great expenditure of excess energy ( reading, art work).

I hope you continue to improve. It might be useful to try to figure out if there is a time element involved: do your lows last a month or more? Do they follow particular events in your life or not? Insight into patterns might help you through worse times.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 23 Aug 2014 #permalink

that should be - activities that DON'T involve

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 23 Aug 2014 #permalink

Let everybody know that once and for all - I GOT NO LOWS, I AM IN PERFECT PHYSICAL CONDITION ALL THE TIME, I CANNOT GET SICK OF ANY DISEASES, KNOWN ON EARTH, YOUR THEORIZING ABOUT ME IS JUST AN IDIOTIC HELPLESSNESS, YOU ENVY ME TOO MUCH TO STAY QUIET, BECAUSE YOU DAMN WELL KNOW THAT I AM LIGHT YEARS AHEAD OF EVERYBODY ON THE PLANET, THANKS TO MY DISCOVERY THAT DESERVES 2,25 TRILLION BUCKS FOR THE WHOLE WORLD TO BE LIKE ME, BUT YOU DON'T DESERVE MY ATTENTION ANY MORE! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 23 Aug 2014 #permalink

Denice,
I suspect you're right about the breathing; probably something like the supposed Tibetan Rites, which British entertainer Bruce Forsyth credits for living for almost 90 years. I will provide a link to instructions on how to carry out these proven exercises for only $10, a huge discount on the $2.25 trillion demanded by other unscrupulous sellers.

Incidentally, what would anyone need 2.25 trillion dollars for? You could spend $400 every second of the entire course of your 160 year extended lifespan with money left to burn, and that's not including interest.

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 23 Aug 2014 #permalink

I CANNOT GET SICK OF ANY DISEASES

If this is actually true, then you're a terrible person, because you could easily travel to West Africa and prevent a lot of needless suffering. So you're either delusional, a liar, or a monster. Take your pick!

I AM IN PERFECT PHYSICAL CONDITION ALL THE TIME, I CANNOT GET SICK OF ANY DISEASES,

I'm so sorry I didn't believe you. I thought you were either lying or deluded, but now I'm convinced. Why didn't you use ALL-CAPS to begin with? If you had we would all have known exactly where we stood.

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 23 Aug 2014 #permalink

Cancerkiller - I don't understand the attitude. Based on my calculation of my net worth as a percentage of the total net worth of everyone on the plane, I figure that if the governments of the world gave you $2.25Trillion my fair share would be $0.37. Which I'm willing to give you in exchange for the secret. However, I cannot in good faith do this if I don't know what your guarantee is worth - while I certainly would like to trust you, it would be silly to invest $0.37 like that without the ability to inspect the merchandise and get a refund it it doesn't match the advertising or recourse if you don't follow through.

By Mephistopheles… (not verified) on 23 Aug 2014 #permalink

Johnny, obviously you know nothing about cancer causation – exactly the lack of oxygen in the cells is the major cause of cancer.

I will freely admit that I do not have your understanding of cancer, or, I suspect, infectious disease. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. Do you have a blog or website?

Let everybody know that once and for all – I GOT NO LOWS, I AM IN PERFECT PHYSICAL CONDITION ALL THE TIME

Did anyone ask whether you had "lows"? Did you mention this in antonymy to something? Have you ever noticed that your poorly thought out supranational demands for various amounts of cash seem to appear in bursts?

Narad: I think he may have been responding to Denise. I do kind of wish CK would respond to my query, because I sincerely doubt he's ever experienced winter. If the water outside doesn't freeze, that ain't winter, no matter what the calender says.

By Politicalguineapig (not verified) on 24 Aug 2014 #permalink

Guineapig, please don't be so sure about my winter experience. I wrote not for nothing that at winter air temperature of 5F I walk around town clad just in my summer shorts and T-shirt for hours and people are extremely surprised, they ask me how come I am not cold at all, while they are freezing in their very thick winter clothes, to which I just say that everybody is different. Many times they take pictures with me on the background of snow drifts and ice in the streets. I also swim in the winter sea at sea water temperature 41F for 10 - 15 minutes, but in both cases I simply cannot get sick, my body is kept warm enough by my doing the Virus/Cancer Killer for a minute a day. What is more, I was actually very easy to catch colds, sometimes flues, getting high body temperature, staying at home and in bed with the nasty running nose, etc., you know how it is when you are sick. Since I started doing this simple exercise for nearly 5 years now, I never got sick of the so called winter or summer flue - I have erased any diseases from my life once once for all. I can disclose my discovery to everybody, but first I guess I gotta be paid for this silver bullet, or Panacea (already not just a myth), maybe the aliens have this knowledge of mine, who knows, but already we, terrestrials, can be equal to the extraterrestrials, regarding the iron constitution.

By Cancerkiller (not verified) on 24 Aug 2014 #permalink

Just go away CK.....no one is buying your BS.

Just go away CK

Wait, he already did:

YOU DON’T DESERVE MY ATTENTION ANY MORE! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!

I guess the V/CK "iron constitution" doesn't do anything about flabby willpower.

no one is buying your BS.

A couple of us tried to buy it, but he won't accept a fair offer - or at least haggle.

By Mephistopheles… (not verified) on 24 Aug 2014 #permalink

@Denice

I’m glad you’re doing a little better. It’s not easy. I am certainly not immune and have had quite a few lows myself.
I’ve tried to build up a repetoire of actvities that seem to have helped in the past: exercise, talking to someone, not breaking my schedule, trying to fix things at home, pretending I’m all right even if I’m not ( sometimes you wind up feeling better), having recreational activities that involve a great expenditure of excess energy ( reading, art work).

Yes normally I do have activities. At the moment though I am severely restrained financially, *extremely* bored, without friends (and therefore people to talk to or do things with) and career-wise am at a dead end. Part of the problem right now is not having any interest in anything and so on the financial/career front I am utterly stuck. One big thing is that I am pretty sure that I am undiagnosed schizoid/scizotypal, which is a new idea to me. I am really tired of having to try to figure out a way to be 'here' when I don't want to be. Does that make sense?

I hope you continue to improve. It might be useful to try to figure out if there is a time element involved: do your lows last a month or more? Do they follow particular events in your life or not? Insight into patterns might help you through worse times.

Yes, mostly triggered by external events outside my control. Pattern matching is not something I have trouble with, I more have issues seeing a point to continuing when there is little to look forward to, a lack of support, and no activity that is 'worth' the effort. See above. In particular I am most frustrated with this 'distract yourself' idea, because all it does is push the problem further down the road - and my version of distracting myself is to isolate myself further.

I did try to get out and about this weekend but it only served to remind me that even among people like me, I am not comfortable or interested in what the world has to offer.

This ties in with a lot of my career stuff actually, which is why it is easier to talk privately as a lot of the details thread together in a way that makes some of my issues make more sense.

Thanks for listening :)

@ Flip:

What you're doing- mostly alone- isn't easy.

Whether you have symptoms more in line with a dx of schizotypal/ schizoid isn't so important UNLESS if you are seeking more apropo meds or if you want purely to understand it more.

Actually, did you ever think about getting help with additional education and/ or training in order to acquire more secure/ rewarding work? I don't know about governmental programmes ( in NSW, is it?) but surely there must be something if you are not earning much and are living on your own ( or with minimal family assistance).

A relative of mine was 'downsized' by the agency for which she worked and she petitioned governmental services to re-train her for a new position. At first, they refused as she was OVER 50 but she harassed them enough - and by saying how she had no one to support her financially- in order to get training in 'computerised office' - she was already an office worker- which got her a job she really liked and that paid as well as the one she lost.

Sometimes you can expand upon what you already know- another relative, who creates 'movie magic', has recently had to upgrade his IT skills to keep up with where the busines is going. We had a long talk about that 2 months ago when I ran into him at an event given by another family member.

I know that AUS is often thought of as a socialist paradise but that in reality, social services aren't especially wonderful. Ar any rate,I wish you better days ahead.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 25 Aug 2014 #permalink

@ Flip:
What you’re doing- mostly alone- isn’t easy.

Whether you have symptoms more in line with a dx of schizotypal/ schizoid isn’t so important UNLESS if you are seeking more apropo meds or if you want purely to understand it more.

It is important at the moment because I find it very hard not to feel anxious in the 'real world'. I call it a sense of disphoria; not a feeling that I don't belong in my body, but that I don't belong in this *life*. It makes it very hard to be motivated to go and do things when everything seems *wrong*. It's a feeling I've always had but it's harder to ignore now when I have so much less to look forward to. I am finding it *extremely* difficult to pull out of the imagined world, or at least find being in the RL not worth my time. Normally it's not as bad as that but recently went through some stuff which kind of f***d up my thinking. Anyway the sum of it is that combined with below I feel I am stuck. That and the disphoria makes me feel crushingly lonely, even ignoring the current isolation from people and work.

Actually, did you ever think about getting help with additional education and/ or training in order to acquire more secure/ rewarding work? I don’t know about governmental programmes ( in NSW, is it?) but surely there must be something if you are not earning much and are living on your own ( or with minimal family assistance).

Sigh... This is again why talking on generalities doesn't work. I am in a highly specialised area at the moment. This limits the opportunities I have, the training I can obtain, the money I can earn and the connections I can make. (It helps to mention I am in the arts, which is far less financially profitable than it is in the US as well as having far fewer full time paying jobs)

I gaveup on my dream job years ago for similar reasons and took 'normal jobs' which have severely sidetracked me into work which I am neither interested in nor trained for.

Re-education in another field or even the one I am in is difficult as I don't have the money (government subsidies wouldn't get me very far, I'd still need a job or financial support while I studied) and don't particularly have any strong interest in anything to make a career out of it. It would also be my third attempt at changing careers, or at least having a 'backup'. It's really not as easy as saying "just change jobs" because that's what I did and it only made me miserable. Going back to what I was doing isn't easy as I struggled to obtain regular work in the first place. Working for myself has always been the most plausible possibility, but as I said, it's very specialised and not easy to make money on it full time without further resources.

The issues for me have never been lack of skills. For whatever reason I just never make it past the door. It's I guess that I don't match up to other people's experience or qualifications. That and I am not the most personable face-to-face. I assure you I have spent the last decade trying different things and different areas and different approaches to work. I have run out of ideas and most people can only suggest what I have already tried.

Like I said, if you knew what the specifics were, it would make more sense. It's like saying I am only one of a hundred people who do figure skating full time. Something like that just doesn't need magical educational upgrades or government support, it's just a really small area to work in and so opportunities are limited. Filling my days with work just to get a pay check isn't me, in fact it also makes me miserable. I can't give myself emotionally to two jobs at once, I've tried. This isn't someone who needs help continuing a career or changing one: I never had a career to begin with, and I've basically not had any kind of stable job (in any one area) for more than a year. My issues go far deeper than your average job hunter and that's part of the frustration, that there's been no one interested in tackling those underlying glass ceilings. Everyone sort of assumes that all you do is get some training and apply for a job, but for whatever reason that's never been how it worked for me.

I know that AUS is often thought of as a socialist paradise but that in reality, social services aren’t especially wonderful. Ar any rate,I wish you better days ahead.

Thanks, I appreciate it. And yeah, I have stories about the crappy system. All bad.

PS. I know I sound all doom and gloom. The problem is that by the time I've thought about it, I feel like "why isn't it done yet?" I can come up with a lot of ideas but it assumes that other people will help/hire/participate. I do have one idea for future plans but it's a mountain in terms of making it happen and I just don't know whether it's right for me let alone practical or plausible. I can't afford to spend money re-training or whatever only for it to fail. Financially and emotionally that's too high a cost to take a chance on. I have to find the right fit first, not leap into whatever. So to sum: small hope, but not much of one.

PPS. Thanks again for reading.

Why speak against Homeopathy? I am sure that a large number of people got benefit from these holistic medicines, and who said that a good homeopath would advice a fixed medicine to everyone carrying the same trouble? This is a wrong information, homeopathy is prescribed individually, in certain case, belledona or aconite may also do wonder and stop the trouble there itself.

Anyway, forget it, let us assume that homeopathy can not promise to cure, then Allopathy or others ? Can they promise, nobody..

lets not criticize anyone, let everybody try his way to eradicate the problems in this world.

May God protect us all from all evil.

By Shailendra (not verified) on 27 Aug 2014 #permalink

@shailendra

Then please provide the evidence, since homeopathy goes against many of the laws of chemistry and physics.

Why speak against Homeopathy? I am sure that a large number of people got benefit from these holistic medicines, and who said that a good homeopath would advice a fixed medicine to everyone carrying the same trouble?

Because it's not a 'holistic medicine'--it's not a medicine at all. It's instead pure, unadulterated quackery which has not only never been demonstrated to perform any better than placebo treatments but which, if it did work, would require literally everything we know about physics, chemistry, biology, the human body, disease , etc. not only to be wrong but to be spectacularly wrong.

Anyway, forget it, let us assume that homeopathy can not promise to cure, then Allopathy or others ? Can they promise, nobody

In almost all cases, they can promise to either cure or be effective at managing the illness. For examp,e, if you have a UTI treatment with ciprofloxacin, ofloxacin, or trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole will eradicate the infection. If you have become infected with HIV current anti-viral/protease inhibitor combination (i.e. 'cocktail') therapies may greatly extend survival times (we're talking by decades: consider Magic Johnson, diagnosed in 1991).

Angela A. Dockter must know what she's talking about. I mean, her name sounds like Doctor!

/snark

have u evr taken homoeopathic medicines? how can u use such rude words for a pathy.if its wrong pracice or it is pseudo then it wont exist for 250 years,patients are taking homoeopathic medicines and are effectively cured,there are cases where even paralysis is treated.n recent research work states that homoeopathy is purely based on nanotechnology. its based on symptom similarity .its action is on immunity .it is effective.those who have taken it will only believe ,other people will only speak rubbish about the science

By catherine lopez (not verified) on 04 Sep 2014 #permalink

@Catherine - since "nano-technology" has only existed for a couple of decades & is still very much an undeveloped area of research, how exactly did "homeopaths" make use of it 250 years ago?

And what did banging the dilution against a Bible have to do with it?

There is ZERO proof that homeopathy is anything but water....

start by saying I agree strongly that ken o. is VERY irresponsible with his blog on how to make a homeopathic remedy for ebola if he didn't say it it should only be made under strict laboratory conditions. However there are reputable homeopathic labs in canada, usa, Germany, france, etc. that could make a viable homeopathic remedy(s) from the ebola virus(s). However then you also need a lot of trained knowledge in what potency to take and how many doses per day to take and for how many days or weeks. Also it is often advisable to take other homeopathic remedies like plant based ones to help your body clear out die off toxins, etc. If you find a homeopath who uses the voll method of testing , and you follow their directions you have an excellent chance of getting well. However no one can cure 100% of the people 100% of the time, as everyone is unique, and are in variable states of health to start with. I would also like to state that I am not a homeopath but have been successfully helped by taking remedies prescribed by reputable homeopaths; and I have studied homeopathy for personal informative purposes for 30 years. PEOPLE inform yourselves thoroughly before you take any kind of medicine
(except in emergencies let doctors do their work).If those who believe homeopathy is quackery took the time to really study what it is all about ,they would understand that it is a valid science and needs proper training to produce successful results in treating either people or animals.

c: "If those who believe homeopathy is quackery took the time to really study what it is all about ,they would understand that it is a valid science and needs proper training to produce successful results in treating either people or animals."

Andre Saine says homeopathy works better for rabies than the modern vaccine. If it is a valid science then you can produce the PubMed indexed studies showing that it works in animal testing.

So prove Andre Saine's contention, post the PubMed Identification Numbers to those studies.

If those who believe homeopathy is quackery took the time to really study what it is all about ,they would understand that it is a valid science

So my 4 years of study for a Bachelor's in Chemistry isn't enough to conclude that homeopathy is nonsense? Undergrad Chem was all a big fraud? Oh well.

However there are reputable homeopathic labs in canada, usa, Germany, france, etc.

Why does Germany get a capital? That's not fair!

@c - given that homeopathy violates a large number of physical laws, I'd say you are as full of crap as it is.

needs proper training to produce successful results in treating either people or animals.

There you go. If a homeopathic remedy does not produce successful results, it's because the person who sold it to you did not have the proper training.
Homeopathy cannot fail; it can only be failed.

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 13 Oct 2014 #permalink

"there are reputable homeopathic labs in canada, usa, Germany, france, etc. that could make a viable homeopathic remedy(s) from the ebola virus(s)."

I'm sure they're eager for the business. Why not drop them a line and ask where to send the specimens? ;)

By Dangerous Bacon (not verified) on 13 Oct 2014 #permalink

@c (if that is your name) - while I'm in agreement with Chris, Lawrence, and herr doktor bimler, I'm willing to be convinced. If you can show high quality peer reviewed double-blinded studies that show that homeopathy produces a clinically significant benefit that can be distinguished from placebo, show your evidence.

If you have any evidence that supports the basic principles of homeopathy and shows that it's not simply an attempt at sympathetic magic, show your evidence.

If you can demonstrate that you can differentiate between two water-based homeopathic remedies at 30C or higher without having to look at the label, and that you can tell the difference between those remedies and distilled, deionized water, show your evidence.

Thanks in advance.

By Mephistopheles… (not verified) on 13 Oct 2014 #permalink

Out of curiosity, how often are homeopaths struck off the register and disqualified for their lack of proper training (as shown by their failure "to produce successful results" ?

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 13 Oct 2014 #permalink

M O'B: " If you can show high quality peer reviewed double-blinded studies that show that homeopathy produces a clinically significant benefit that can be distinguished from placebo, show your evidence."

Well that is what I asked for... the animal studies showing homeopathy works better than both placebo and the modern rabies vaccine.

.

Well that is what I asked for…

I predict either:
a) crickets or
b) a gishgallop of references, none of which are remotely convincing individually, but that are supposed to impress through their sheer volume.

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 13 Oct 2014 #permalink

@Chris - and I'm agreeing with you that this is the absolute minimum anyone should demand - demand, I say! - from their local homeopath.

I'm given to understand that homeopathic marriages will soon be legal in many US states as well.

By Mephistopheles… (not verified) on 13 Oct 2014 #permalink

Krebiozen - I have 2 pounds on crickets (I've got 3 pounds 78 pence sitting on my desk right now).

By Mephistopheles… (not verified) on 13 Oct 2014 #permalink

M O'B -- You'd need a terribly large box for 2 pounds of...

Oh, wait... :)

By Scottynuke (not verified) on 13 Oct 2014 #permalink

do you know what happens when you are groggy and glutted on thanksgiving dinner? you go on your computer , read something that makes you grumpy, and unwisely post a comment on a blog that gets other people wanting to tear your every word apart or prove your beliefs. Is this how all blogs work? post a comment, everyone attack, try to defend, attack, so on and so on , never a good enough answer and scorned forever? you know what they say about a woman scorned, oops different connotation.
think i'm out my league with all your chem. and physics degrees, etc. when my only interests in high school were biology, history, boys and partying, not necessarily in that order. then somehow ended up in a business program in college. I may be full of crap but would really like to know how Lawrence knows I've been constipated for a couple
of days. Maybe someone will be kind enough to send me
some dark chocolate fudge brownies laced with exlax.
I am not a liar though. I believe homeopathy works from personal experience, and seeing family and friends health problems either cured or improved from using homeopathic remedies.
If people I trusted and respected informed me that a certain regular medical doctor did not know how to do his job
I would go to a doctor with good rep. instead. The same with
a homeopathic doctor. a homeopathic doctor would not need to be struck off the register, no positive results equals no patients because they very quickly move on to someone else who can do better-whether that is a regular doctor or another homeopathic one.
Sorry TBruce if you think I was insulting your chem.
knowledge, not intending to, have a much loved family
member who is a fourth year chem. major, who has taken homeop. rem.'s and knows they work,and could probably explain it better than I can. also was miffed when my computer (all on its own) capitalised Germany, honestly it just did it again-why??? does it keep putting caps. on that country!!
c is the first letter of my name.
If you took a selection of different drugs(allopathic) and made them all into pills or liquid that looked and smelled the same, etc., to the naked eye or other senses, could you tell them apart- wouldn't you have to take them to a lab to be analyzed? Will admit I personally do not know what labs can analyze homeopathics, however I am not a doctor or a scientist. just used homeopathics with good results.
D. Bacon, said I believed homeopathic remedies work, but not 100% of the time on 100% of the people for whatever health problem/disease for various reasons, therefore as I do not have access to necessary precautions needed when dealing with any deadly virus ,I no more want to get near one than you do. If I was trained in dealing with biohazardous materals with the proper equipment and authority I would take a minute sample to a reputable lab, however I'm not totally crazy, I would not go to Africa right now where they have ebola. Hope and pray to GOD that I won't need to test by taking which homeopathic remedies will work for it or have the expense of visiting a homeopath who does voll testing for it , not covered under health care now. okay, time to tear me apart again, sorry if I missed anyone's question/comment and ahead of time for what you may feel are unsatisfactory answers.

unwisely post a comment on a blog that gets other people wanting to tear your every word apart or prove your beliefs. Is this how all blogs work? post a comment, everyone attack, try to defend, attack, so on and so on , never a good enough answer and scorned forever?

Depends on what your "unwise comment" is. If you're talking to an audience that is, on average, extremely scientifically educated, and you release a howler like 'if the people who think homeopathy is quackery just took the time to REALLY examine it, they'd realize it's a valid science', then OF COURSE you're going to get people calling you on it.

By Antaeus Feldspar (not verified) on 14 Oct 2014 #permalink

Indeed. Posting a comment that a pseudoscience like homeopathy is a valid science is just begging for multiple rebuttals.

I am not a liar though. I believe homeopathy works from personal experience, and seeing family and friends health problems either cured or improved from using homeopathic remedies.

There's a simple explanation for this that doesn't mean you are lying or that homeopathy works. It's called confirmation bias and it has been fooling humans into believing things that aren't true for millennia.

Will admit I personally do not know what labs can analyze homeopathics, however I am not a doctor or a scientist. just used homeopathics with good results.

No lab can analyze homeopathic medicines, certainly not those with dilutions greater than 10C that do not contain a single molecule of the starting material. Not even homeopaths can tell apart remedies that have no labels on them, because there is no difference between remedies, they are either water or sugar pills. If anyone could reliably distinguish between different 10C remedies they would be eligible for the Randi million dollars. The fact that no one has ever managed to do this speaks volumes.

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 14 Oct 2014 #permalink

c,

a homeopathic doctor would not need to be struck off the register, no positive results equals no patients because they very quickly move on to someone else who can do better-whether that is a regular doctor or another homeopathic one.

Sadly, the average patient doesn't have the time or information to determine how good a doctor or homeopath is. These kinds of decisions are often made based on their manner, how they interact with their patients, how responsive they are, and those kinds of things rather than actual results. People will use the same doctor (or homeopath) for years even though that person may not be doing anything useful and the treatments are either not useful or actively harmful. You don't see the totality of the person's results, only your personal interactions (or the interactions with people you know). In the case of a doctor you have organizations that are supposed to pay attention and who will see issues that you cannot; for homeopaths, not so much.

This is not unique to the medical world, you can find examples all over. Bernard Madoff was able to maintain a Ponzi scheme for more than 10 years. There are astrologers and psychics who make a good living over a career, never once being able to actually talk to the dead or predict the future.

By Mephistopheles… (not verified) on 14 Oct 2014 #permalink

c.: "I am not a liar though. I believe homeopathy works from personal experience, and seeing family and friends health problems either cured or improved from using homeopathic remedies."

Well you did claim it was a science. I only asked that you provide the evidence to support that statement in the form of PubMed indexed animal studies showing homeopathy works better for rabies than the modern vaccine. Where is that proof?

Perhaps you should read more of this blog to learn how an appeal to popularity is not a valid substitute for verifiable evidence.

a homeopathic doctor would not need to be struck off the register, no positive results equals no patients because they very quickly move on to someone else who can do better-whether that is a regular doctor or another homeopathic one.

This also serves as a good argument against licensing or certifying homeopaths in the first place.

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 14 Oct 2014 #permalink

If you find a homeopath who uses the voll method of testing , and you follow their directions you have an excellent chance of getting well.

If I found a homeopath claiming to make medical diagnoses with EAV, I'd be more inclined to alert the authorities.

"...member who is a fourth year chem. major, who has taken homeop. rem.’s and knows they work,and could probably explain it better than I can ..."

I call BS on this. No way any "fourth year chem. major" would believe in homeopathy. They could explain it, but it wouldn't be an explanation in favour of homeopathy.

By Woo Fighter (not verified) on 14 Oct 2014 #permalink

Narad,

Or alert a scientologist. That EAV gizmo sounds an awful lot like Hubbard's e-meter.

By Woo Fighter (not verified) on 14 Oct 2014 #permalink

reputable homeopathic labs

That’s an oxymoron I haven’t seen before.

I believe homeopathy works from personal experience, and seeing family and friends health problems either cured or improved from using homeopathic remedies.

I don’t dispute that you believe this, c, but I dispute that you’re correct to do so.

Direct question; how exactly did you factually establish the improvement in your and your family and friends’ health problems was actually due to the use of homeopathic remedies, rather than some other mechanism (self-limiting illness, regression to the mean, confirmation bias, placebo effect, etc.)? It’s on some basis other than a post hoc ergo procter hoc logical fallacy, I trust.

Your blogs have a stop point of knowledge. Your comments presuppose the accuracy of statements made by the anti-alternative medicine brigade. For those of us who have personally experienced the efficacy of homeopathic remedies there is no fear of Ebola, or any other virus or bacterial threat. We leave that fear to those who slavishly adhere to a flawed system that has no answer to the Ebola outbreak. You carry on crowing... we will just get well. comments raised

By scientistssuckuk (not verified) on 15 Oct 2014 #permalink
reputable homeopathic labs

That’s an oxymoron I haven’t seen before.

You wouldn't want to accidentally get something that they didn't put the wrong ingredient in, would you? That's the kind of thing you don't want to mess around with!

And I wouldn't be surprised if some of the shadier homeopathic labs cut corners by watering down their products. The really disreputable "homeopathic labs" just sell plain sugar pills, with no active ingredients not put in them!

By justthestats (not verified) on 15 Oct 2014 #permalink

Your comments presuppose the accuracy of statements made by the anti-alternative medicine brigade.

Actually, our comments instead address the total lack of any evidence whatsoever supporting the statements made by the pro-alternative medicine brigade.

Case in point: they claim homeopathic treatments can be effective against Ebola, but when challenged can offer no evidence homeopathic treatments are effective against anything.

For those of us who have personally experienced the efficacy of homeopathic remedies there is no fear of Ebola, or any other virus or bacterial threat.

Your personal experience represents anecdote, not evidence: this is a statement of faith indistinguishable from any other--you can freely substitute the deity of your choice for the words 'homeopathic remedies' without changing the import of this claim one bit.--e.g., "For those of us who have personally experienced the Noodly Appendage of the Flying Spaghetti Monster there is no fear of Ebola, or any other virus or bacterial threat."

C: do you know what happens when you are groggy and glutted on thanksgiving dinner?

Er, yes, but I've never timetraveled after a turkey dinner either. Perhaps that might be a cause of your grumpiness?

By Politicalguineapig (not verified) on 15 Oct 2014 #permalink

For those of us who have personally experienced the efficacy of homeopathic remedies there is no fear of Ebola, or any other virus or bacterial threat.

There's a few people in West Africa who could use some fearless assistance. What are you waiting for?

"There’s a few people in West Africa who could use some fearless assistance. What are you waiting for?

I know you jest, but fools who think "there is no fear of Ebola" are likely to turn out to be horrendous spreaders of disease. Were it up to me, they'd be banned from being within a megametre of known Ebola patient. I'd hose 'em down with 4% formaldehyde if they'd been near something relatively easy to cure, like a Y. pestis>/i> infection.

Er, yes, but I’ve never timetraveled after a turkey dinner either.

Please tell me this isn't a confusion about when Canada observes Thanksgiving.