Maybe there's room at the Motel 6...

Funny that these two characters would be battling it out for the height of cocaine ambience.

Of course, the devil always wins.

Hey, nothing's too good for the Fuhrer.

Not extravagant for a celebrity who no doubt well and truly cares about the environment and starving kids in Africa, of course.

I guess everyone has their priorities.

"Not extravagant for a celebrity who no doubt well and truly cares about the environment and starving kids in Africa, of course.

I guess everyone has their priorities."

Posted by: JMcH

Who's done more good for the world's poor - Jagger or Bush?
Who's done more active harm?

Hmmm. For years, I had considered Mick Jagger to be the quintessential instance of rock and roll grown too old: the Rebellion become the Establishment, rock stars selling soda pop, and so forth. Now, though, he just might have a purpose after all.

Give it up for the man of wealth and taste.

JMcH:

Not extravagant for a celebrity who no doubt well and truly cares about the environment and starving kids in Africa, of course.

False equivalence. Jagger is spending his money paid voluntary through the free market. Bush is spending my money, taken under threat of penalty with the understanding that it will be used for the public good.

FWIW, I believe in showing deference to the "office of the president" in the abstract, and have little problem with "the president" getting Ritzier accomodations than I'd care to pay for. That it happens to be Dubya doesn't change this. We're going to have other presidents and we'd like them to carry themselves with dignity abroad.

That said--and assuming this story is true--Jagger was well within his rights and it is pretty funny.

[sarcasm]
... and that's why politicians are called "Public Servants".
[/sarcasm]

Not to change the subject or anything, but I'm just dying to know how it comes that an associate professor of biology at a taxpayer subsidized college finds the time to surf the web all day for important information such as this AND STILL manage to find the time to continually update his web blog every fifteen or twenty minutes.

Talk about getting your money's worth from public employees, professor Myers is a veritable steal!

I mean speaking of public servants and all.

I'm just dying to know how it comes that an associate professor of biology at a taxpayer subsidized college finds the time

Gee I dunno. If I had to guess, I'd say he has better time management skills than you do. Do you have any evidence that he's not doing his job? It sounds like you're the one projecting your deficiencies on others.

False equivalence. Jagger is spending his money paid voluntary through the free market. Bush is spending my money, taken under threat of penalty with the understanding that it will be used for the public good.

All presidents have had access to these funds. Why is it such a problem now? Oh, that's right. Because President Bush is a Republican and a Christian. Got it.

All presidents have had access to these funds. Why is it such a problem now? Oh, that's right.

If you read my follow up, you'll see that I agree with you on this. However, there is still absolutely no equivalence between Jagger's use of his own money and the president's use of the public's money. Therefore, JMcH has revealed little more than his own ignorance by making such a stupid non sequitur.

"Gee I dunno. If I had to guess, I'd say he has better time management skills than you do."

I guess you're right, but then again (speaking just for myself), my inability to compete in the same surfer\blogger league with Mr. Myers has little to do with time management.

See, as I am not an associate professor of biology, my job description does not include "Blogging" or "'net surfing".

Further, my employer would expect that any efficiencies I produce during working hours would be put to the work which he is paying me to do during those hours.

But of course as I say, I'm not an associate professor of biology so it's not really a fair comparison.

Gah. Someone else had my member name? Multiple sign-in screens? Stupid protections.

Klystron - What kind of hours do you work? Do you routinely stay up until 1 or 2 in the morning doing take-home work from your job? Are you on the alert 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for new and exciting information to incorporate into your job so as to make it better? Do you deal with ridiculously banal emails from your co-workers/subordinates that arrive at all times of the day and night, expecting to be answered immediately? Are you required to be current on all the latest advances and news releases in all parts of your field in order for those you work with to say that you know what you're talking about? "Working hours" associated with an employer don't have a lot of meaning for a teacher, college level or otherwise. It might not be a straight 8 hours in a row the way you're used to, but there's never really a clock-out, either. PZ might take 15 minutes a few times to do updates during the course of a "normal business day", but I can almost guarantee you that he's also doing his job long after you've gone home for the night.

And now if you'll excuse me, I have to go write a lecture for tomorrow and grade 25 quizzes. Because I was busy with other aspects of my job all day, and this is the only time "left over" to do it.

Right. It's after 9PM, I've been working on grading and composing an exam, and now when I check in to see what's been happening I find some clueless twit complaining that I don't work at my job enough.

You know, teaching positions are usually salaried rather than paid by the hour because if they had to pay me overtime for what they take for granted I will do...

I suppose the poor President will have to settle for the Hilton or something comparably plebian.

Shouldn't he give preference to American-owned companies anyway?

It's a great story, but I should point out for non-UK readers that the Sun is a tabloid rag (most famous for Page 3 girls), with the credibility of the National Enquirer.

klystron, afaik, people send links to PZ all the time, and it would just take a quick look at a couple news sites or ye old blog roll to see what's new. I'm guilty of forwarding articles to people who I think would be interested in reading them (as well as the occasional cute kitten pictures).. now if you want to see people who are killing time at their paid by the hour jobs by surfing the internet for news, well you are probably thinking of fark. ;]

my employer would expect that any efficiencies I produce during working hours would be put to the work which he is paying me to do during those hours

Good old klystron doesn't have even the tiniest clue, does he? It's 11:00 at night, I just finished grading the algebra quiz and writing a calculus quiz for tomorrow. I'd better get to bed because my first class is at 7:00. I love teaching and the hours outside of actual class time are flexible, but "working hours" are basically any hour of the day or night for college faculty and other teachers. Sure glad, though, when I can squeeze out a bit of spare time to smite ignorant trolls, although I suppose they're best ignored.

It's a great story, but I should point out for non-UK readers that the Sun is a tabloid rag (most famous for Page 3 girls), with the credibility of the National Enquirer.

More like the New York Post's Page Six gossip section - not exactly the Telegraph, but quite a few rungs above the Enquirer. Not to mention that celebrity pseudo-news is the Sun's beat, and that the UK's overly stringent libel laws do ensure some degree of accuracy.

Of course you're correct, I'd forgotten how very hard associate professors work. The grading, the lecturing; back breaking work all.

Forgive me, it's been quite some time since I was in grad school.

Ugh, klystron, you horrid little troll. Did you even go to grad school? One associate professor in my department is usually already here when I arrive at 8 A.M. and still here when I leave around 6 or 7 P.M. I'm just a lowly grad student, but I can watch my professors and know they work very hard and earn their pay.

As an instructor, I also work very hard. Last night I was up until 1 grading a test from last week and today I was up at 7 to finish my lecture. I'm taking a brief break from non-stop work to comment a little on a blog.....sue me!

I'd hate to work for Klystron. I can see he'd be one of these, "I pay you to work, dammit, not to stand around the water cooler gassing!" guys.

If this thread illustrates nothing else, it shows the speed and effectiveness with which Bush's fans use the Tu Quoque fallacy. You have to admit it's effective, because otherwise sensible people have allowed this thread to become a referendum on whether PZ is doing his job as a professor. But you also have to admit that JMcH and klystron were amazingly quick on the draw when it came to turning the topic away from Dear Leader to other targets. No, honest, I stand in awe. We lefties could learn something about rapid response.

Now look: there's no big deal about Bush staying at this particular hotel, which has hosted other US presidents. There's also no big deal about Jagger holding onto his rooms. We believe in a free economy, right? Jagger booked the rooms first. If he won't relinquish them voluntary, it's pretty heavy-handed to do anything but find another nice hotel in Vienna. That's pretty much the entire content of the story. Worth a chuckle, or some annoyance depending on where your loyalty lies. That's it.

PZ's comment about public servants is appropriate in context. The context, if we can all stretch our memory a little, is the foaming-at-the-mouth vehemence which with the wingnuts on the right scrutinized every little action of Clinton's while he was president, as they did later with candidates Gore and Kerry. The game theoretic strategy of "tit for tat" demands that we apply the same scrutiny to Bush even if we'd rather let bygones be bygones.

Specific context: Clinton allegedly got an expensive haircut once, and the wingnuts spread so many lies about resulting plane delays (http://politus.blogspot.com/2004/04/debunked-clintons-haircut-at-lax.ht…) that this became conventional wisdom. Now, I happen to think that any president should get a good haircut--and Air Force One should have an impeccable paint job--and the Washington Monument should well maintained and open to visitors. These are all matters of national pride. The man who is president is still just a man, but the office of the president is a national symbol, and it's appropriate to spend money on a little bit of pageantry. It's basic psychology. A large part of the public won't trust an ascetic president sleeping on a cot and carrying his belongings in a cheap daypack.

So I normally wouldn't criticize Bush for choosing lodging that suits the office of the president, but in context, I would be willing to bring up the issue if I could hurt him with it. It is a little ironic to imagine this guy who pretends he's a rural Texan (despite clear evidence that he's the scion of a rich New England family) staying at hotel that looks more suited for hosting waltzes in period attire. If this fact can be used to diminish him in the eyes of Joe Six Pack, then by all means, it should be used. True, for some reason that eludes me, I'm not sure it can be used that way, but I don't fault PZ for trying.

Of course you're correct, I'd forgotten how very hard associate professors work. The grading, the lecturing; back breaking work all.

Forgive me, it's been quite some time since I was in grad school.

Let me guess -- you're angry with PZ for saying something mean about Bush, and so this is the best sort of swipe you could think of to come back with. Right?

"TEACHER! PZ'S PLAYING ON THE INTERNET WHEN HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE WORKING!!!"

Now, remind me, how many weeks of vacation has Bush taken since 2001?

"Ugh, klystron, you horrid little troll. Did you even go to grad school? One associate professor in my department is usually already here when I arrive at 8 A.M." & etc.

Jeeze Pygmy, find any corn up there?

"Let me guess -- you're angry with PZ for saying something mean about Bush, and so this is the best sort of swipe you could think of to come back with. Right?"

No, actually I was simply amused by the irony of one public employee misusing public resources (time, computer, IP & etc.), to chastise another public employee for acting the spendthrift.

In hindsight George I can see that it was perhaps a bit to subtle for this crowd, my apologies.

In hindsight George I can see that it was perhaps a bit to subtle for this crowd, my apologies.

On the contrary, I don't think it's subtle at all.

That would be "a bit to[sic] subtle" as in "complete and utter BS".

People aren't puzzled because they can't see the irony; they're opposing that there's any ironic point to make, because for the irony to work, PZ has to be misappropriating resources somehow and the case for saying he does that is nonexistent. If PZ were blowing off his office hours to play around on the internet, then yes thats using time required by his job to be doing something else. But managing a blog isn't proof that he doesn't abide by his office hours or something. You apparently seem to be under the impression he works a customer-service job or some industry drone sort of thing where you have to work for certain hours because you aren't allowed to work others. Such an employee time management model is only specific to some professions.