People are still interviewing me about the silly Expelled movie. The most prestigious news source so far, though, has to be my campus newspaper, The Register. They even ran it on the front page of their April Fool's issue, a signal honor which I only acknowledge at this late date because I was so busy gallivanting about that I missed it. You're supposed to be able to read it at the source, but the link seems to have gone all flaky, so at least until it's fixed, I've put the interview below the fold.
University Register: For those who haven't been following along, could you give a brief rundown and explanation of what happened when you visited the Expelled private screening?
Step 1: I signed up for a screening of this new movie, Expelled, in which I have a small part. (UMM might make an appearance in the film, since my interview was recorded here!). I also reserved a spot for a guest.
Step 2: I called up my friend Richard Dawkins, who is fairly well known as an evolutionary biologist and atheist, and invited him out on a date. He said yes! He was going to be in town anyway, and he has an even larger part in the movie.
Step 3: At the appointed day and hour, Richard and I showed up at the AMC in the Mall of America, all dressed up and dapper. We also had our entourages with us.
Step 4: A burly security guard pulls me out of the line and informs me that the producer of the movie doesn't like me, and that I'm being kicked out.
Step 5: They fail to notice our entourages or Richard — get that, they didn't notice the most famous atheist/evolutionist in the world — who sails through the line and is forced to watch an incredibly boring, badly made propaganda film about scientists being a bunch of Nazis who won't let evidence-free guesses about magical Intelligent Designers be taught in the schools in the guise of science. He was not happy. I'm sorry, Richard. Our date was ruined.
Step 6: I went to the Apple store instead, and blogged about it all. Then I went to the bookstore for a while, and then the food court. I had a most excellent time.
Step 7: I got to spend much of the next day on the telephone, talking to reporters who also thought the whole story was hilarious. The whole world ended up laughing at the moviemakers — EPIC fail. Evolution FTW!
UR: When you arrived at the theater, could you give us a brief description of the candy and drink options that were available, and your general impression of the quality of the selection?
Alas, no. Although a few members of my group had left the movie line to get refreshments, I was intercepted before I could score any Junior Mints. It may have been a factor in my expulsion: as an Official Certified Scientist(tm), they probably feared that I might have been able to cobble up some high explosives and a jet pack from the reagents on sale at the snack counter, so they moved quickly to prevent a McGyver-like eventuality.
UR: You were asked to leave by guards employed by the Mall of America. Did you feel those guards felt unable to confront your guest, Richard Dawkins, due to his nationality, and do you feel the situation would have been resolved differently had you been confronted by agents of Scotland Yard, MI-6, or James Bond?
Since he was on American soil (Mall of American soil, no less), that would have been highly inappropriate. It would have been better to have brought in the CIA, but we know that Felix Leiter always looks the other way when British agents are at work, so no, it would have turned out the same.
UR: While blogging from the Apple Store after being expelled from the screening, did you receive prompt and helpful service from employees for all your questions about Apple software, hardware, and other merchandise?
Yes, very much so. I got a demonstration of the multi-touch trackpad in all of the new Apple laptops, which is very, very nice. I may have to get a new computer.
UR: While awaiting the movie's end, did you visit the newly opened Nickelodeon Universe theme park to enjoy its wide variety of Spongebob Squarepants-themed attractions?
No, I've been avoiding it. Although I adore Spongebob and consider him a sterling role model for all of our fine students at UMM, I have a dread of the Hasselhoff. I'm still traumatized from the Spongebob movie, which was fabulous until the moment the Hasselhoff showed up — and now I have a fear that if I attended the theme park, the Hoff might suddenly show up and offer me a ride. Or a Whopper.
UR: In your original blog post regarding the incident, you made an analogy to a sabot, a common material in bullets. Do you possess a conceal-and-carry license, and as a public figure, would exercising your second amendment right as a citizen have made you feel safer at night in the Mall of America theater?
I don't carry a gun, and I haven't even fired one since I was a teenager. I am completely helpless, so no, a gunfight at the MOA would not leave me feeling safe.
UR: The Expelled movie claims that scientists are being improperly blacklisted for their beliefs. What are your concerns about the validity of this claim with regards to Professor Jonathan Crane, who was recently released from his position at Gotham University after being revealed as The Scarecrow?
I think Dr Crane is free to seek employment at an institution that would appreciate his talents, like the Discovery Institute, Liberty University, or any of thousands of bible colleges all across the country.
UR: The Expelled producers are dealing with at least two intellectual property issues: pirated copies of their movie being made available early, and alleged copyright infringement in background music. Do you feel that Metallica, with their history of political involvement, should issue a statement against Expelled?
I'm more of a Radiohead kind of guy. I'd rather see Thom Yorke come out against Expelled. Since Yorke hangs out in Oxford, just like Richard Dawkins, perhaps they could get together and do a duet.
UR: Where did you stay for your visit to the Twin Cities? If you did not stay in a Holiday Inn Express, do you think your visit would have been more successful if you had?
It was a Sheraton. I didn't need any kind of edge going into this debate; with that gang of incompetent bozos behind that silly movie, I could have come in with a concussion, a hangover, both arms tied behind my back, and a blindfold and still outwitted them (unless, of course, they'd recruited David Hasselhoff instead of Ben Stein for their movie. They didn't though, so I was fearless.)
Besides, my visit was incredibly successful as it was. I caused creationists great discomfiture, and got to sit at Cinnabon and read a book without having to watch their crappy movie. I also now have the honor of telling everyone that when the creationists saw me and Richard Dawkins in a lineup, I'm the scary one they sent an armed guard after.
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Just curious, was this a verbal interview, or did they email you a list of questions that you answered? I'm guessing the latter.
The former would be funnier though :-P
Off topic (sorry), but I thought y'all may enjoy this:
The following exchange between atheist activist Rob Sherman of Buffalo Grove and Ill. Rep. Monique Davis (D-Chicago) took place Wednesday afternoon in the General Assembly as Sherman testified before the House State Government Administration Committee.
Davis: I don't know what you have against God, but some of us don't have much against him. We look forward to him and his blessings. And it's really a tragedy -- it's tragic -- when a person who is engaged in anything related to God, they want to fight. They want to fight prayer in school.
I don't see you (Sherman) fighting guns in school. You know?
I'm trying to understand the philosophy that you want to spread in the state of Illinois. This is the Land of Lincoln. This is the Land of Lincoln where people believe in God, where people believe in protecting their children.... What you have to spew and spread is extremely dangerous, it's dangerous--
Sherman: What's dangerous, ma'am?
Davis: It's dangerous to the progression of this state. And it's dangerous for our children to even know that your philosophy exists! Now you will go to court to fight kids to have the opportunity to be quiet for a minute. But damn if you'll go to [court] to fight for them to keep guns out of their hands. I am fed up! Get out of that seat!
Sherman: Thank you for sharing your perspective with me, and I'm sure that if this matter does go to court---
Davis: You have no right to be here! We believe in something. You believe in destroying! You believe in destroying what this state was built upon.
The first Hasselhoff reference made me chuckle, the second one put me into tears. Then they had to go and pull out the batman reference (Dr. Crane), and I was done for the day.
Even still the last line remains my favorite. Yes, you are indeed the scary one.
Ew, Radiohead? Better than Metallica, I guess.
OT: Got this email earlier, from Mitch McConnell via Michelle Malkin (too many M's!)
Having Republicans deliver the message for me is bittersweet.
Oh come on, Professor Crane is *way* too good for the Discovery Institute or Liberty University. Sure, he may be psychotically evil, but for damn sure he got real and repeatable results ;)
The University Register's host has inexplicably rolled back the website to a backup from last Tuesday, meaning we'll have to repost all of last week's articles. We'll hopefully get the link working again by tonight for you.
Also, you have one additional reference in the UR last week. The UR has taken to printing professor trading cards, the subject of one being yourself. It should be on the website as well once we get everything rolling, so check it out.
Cheers,
Donavon Cawley
Managing Editor
University Register
Hmmm... what's this about? I guess "Leper Messiah" isn't the song their referring to.
s/their/they're/
"UR: The Expelled movie claims that scientists are being improperly blacklisted for their beliefs. What are your concerns about the validity of this claim with regards to Professor Jonathan Crane, who was recently released from his position at Gotham University after being revealed as The Scarecrow?
I think Dr Crane is free to seek employment at an institution that would appreciate his talents, like the Discovery Institute, Liberty University, or any of thousands of bible colleges all across the country."
YOU FAIL.
Instead of saying "Who is that?" he assumes a Fictitious Character is a Creationist.
Similar to asking a Politician if they are concerned about the recent build up of Military Forces in Oceania.
Hold the phone everybody!
I'm seeing PZ and Richard on an adventure: PZ's adventure is most excellent, while RD's is totally bogus and filled with Nazis. They meet up outside the mall afterwards when who should show up but George Carlin as Rufus in his time-travelling phone booth and he's got a plan to save humanity from the evil clutches of religion forever....
I'm telling you, PZ, this is gold! I gotta go make some phone calls, but have your people get ahold of my people and let's do lunch!
Funny. You could write for the Harvard Lampoon.
As #6 pointed out, we at the UR are having some issues. Unless we can get the host to restore their more up to date database, I will be re-uploading everything tonight. It should be up by 8pm CDT at the latest. Sorry for the issue.
Jacob Thebault-Spieker
Online Editor
University Register
Actually, since all of the people at the Disco Institute assume that (some) Fictitious Characters are real, it is perfectly consistent to suggest that they hire a Fictitious Character.
Especially since they are afraid of their Fictitious Characters, and this particular Fictitious Character spreads FEAR.
Heh.
Aww. Scarecrow is one of the few comic book villains who actually uses science (drugs and whatnot) rather than some sort of bizarre circumstantial mutation (or other breed of sci-fi magic) in order to terrorize people. Sure, he claims to be doing it all for his "research," which is rather dubious, but that's not enough to lump him in with the creationists!
You also fail... failure to realize that Oceania is actually a term used for a Geopolitical area (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceania).
Perhaps they let Mr. Dawkins in as he is merely a Dick, whereas your initials P.Z. could be interpreted as short for "PiZzle", making you a much more imposing opponent.
It might also have triggered those old rum, sodomy & the lash fantasies among the sexually suppressed religious conservatives attending "Expelled".
No doubt some were cruising the men's room at the theatre looking to expel a little something themselves.
Darwin's rottweiler - not so scary.
Darwin's cuttlefish - way scary.
[the Cthulhu is strong in this one]
#15
Journalist: "Mr. Random Politician, are you concerned about the recent build up of military forces in Oceania?"
Politician: "I am sure the situation can be handled through diplomatic channels. That said, I will not take any options off the table."
Journalist: "You do realize they're our allies?"
With their luck, the guys at "Expelled" will try to quote-mine this interview and ignorantly insert some of the references to fictional characters.
Richard Dawkins does his time-travelling via Police Public Call Box.
That last paragraph is priceless. You sure you're not actually James Parry in disguise?
I'll give those kids credit; they came up with some great questions.
No no, Anonomouse - YOU fail, dude! You have missed the obvious, and must left your sense of humor on your dresser this morning.
Do you really, honestly think that PZ had no idea whatsoever that Dr. Crane "who was recently released from his position at Gotham University after being revealed as The Scarecrow" was a Batman reference, and wasn't just playing along? Or that his playing along wasn't completely consistent with the overall tone of the invterview?
Sheesh.
If you're spoofing the clueless and humorless mindset of the average phobic creationist, then kudos - you got me!
Borwnian,
Got your title: PZ's Big Adventure. I particularly like the scene where Large Marge evolves into a Liberal right before PZ's eyes.
I'm surprised you haven't been attacked by a rabid Apple hater, or had your leg humped by a rabid Apple fan yet. Some of them are scarier than creationists! ;-)
Borwnian,
Got your title: PZ's Big Adventure.
I particularly like the scene where Large Marge evolves into a Liberal right before PZ's eyes.
Alas, the sequel, Big Top PZ, while moderately clever, will falter under the weight of intense expectation.
However, his TV show, PZ's Playhouse will achieve cult status. A visual phantasmagoria, filmed at the Creation Museum, it will be admired for the manner in which it cleverly blurs fantasy and...er...more fantasy.
(Sorry for the double post. My wireless crapped out momentarily.)
Anonomouse:
No, you FAIL. <-- caps are hilarious when you're yelling AND wrong, by the way.
I got the joke, didn't you? Of course PZ got the reference.
defectiverobot:
/me dons creationist (tinfoil) hat:
PZ MYERS MASTURBATES IN PUBLIC! I KNEW IT!
Now for a much more stupid take on Expelled, I give you Rush Limbaugh:
Typical idiot, he doesn't understand why the Higgs boson is called the "God particle," so he rants on in pantheistic mindlessness, while repeating the lies of Expelled.
Hey, I didn't say it was any good, it's just here to let all know what we're dealing with, the lowest level of "thought," but something that certainly appeals to too many people.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
I think I approve of this mixture of interview and product placement. Certainly beats our campus rag.
More fuckwittery from Rush:
Really, Rush, do scientists prevent you from mentioning God?
Or is this just more dishonesty, that they won't allow for the unknown as a "cause," so you're crying foul simply because science continues to investigate the known, as it must do according to what we know of epistemology?
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
"I'm more of a Radiohead kind of guy. I'd rather see Thom Yorke come out against Expelled. Since Yorke hangs out in Oxford, just like Richard Dawkins, perhaps they could get together and do a duet."
PZ, I now officially adore you. You have the best taste of any Professor I know. Congratulations. You should have an honorary knighthood just for saying that.
This is utterly insane. I can't beleive this is where we are after 150 years of solid evidence.
Here, I made a bingo game. Its free. You can give it to people to help describe the many misunderstandings of evolution that 65% of this country have. It prints out booklets with a randomized bingo grid and explanations of each sqaure. I only hope people will hand it out, and yell bingo really loud whenever these creationists have a meeting, or during this ridiculous movie.
You can start here if you are interested.
Jeez Glen D! Now I have to go wash my eyes out with soap.
This was a great interview. Kudos to the student staff at the newspaper.
I could have come in with a concussion, a hangover, both arms tied behind my back, and a blindfold and still outwitted them (unless, of course, they'd recruited David Hasselhoff instead of Ben Stein for their movie. They didn't though, so I was fearless.)
So is David Hesslhoff the Anti-Darwin? The snake to PZ's atheist moongoose? Secularist green kryptonite?
What you should have said to the Apple question, was that you were going to take a fat amount of the money you get from the Great Atheist Conspiracy that you normally spend on booze, whores, and decadence and blow it all on a new Apple that you can continue to post here from.
Man, Rush Limbaugh is like a flash-bang grenade of stupid.
I get the sink after you, mothra.
"The Scarecrow" was a Batman reference, and wasn't just playing along?"
"I got the joke, didn't you? Of course PZ got the reference."
FAIL.
I must have missed all those times that PZ talked about Batman. Both his Wiki entry and his Profile missed mentioning his fondness of Comic Book Detectives. Additionally, the paper's editor must have missed the part where PZ mentioned
the Discovery Institute in Metropolis, or Liberty University in Bludhaven.
You two have a bad case of hero worship.
Anonomouse,
Have you thought of applying for work at the Discovery Institute?
Really, I think you would find it challenging.
Is it me, or has Rush really jumped on the Jesus wagon in the last year or so? I mean, I've never been able to stomach listening to him for more than a few minutes at a time, but I really don't remember his daily dose of GOP bigotry and bravado containing this much religious content until fairly recently. It seems to mirror the Fox News strawman, the dreaded 'Secular Progressive' who wants to spit on your communion wafer, use your flag to roll a big fattie, and eat all the juicy puppies.
And Radiohead? Hell yeah.
Hey Rush:
"Just 'cause you feel it, doesn't mean it's there."
Anonomouse, you really are a dim bulb! The batman reference was made by the interviewer, not PZ. When reading something please engage your critical thinking skills - they'll serve you well.
The article is back up, I apologize again for the issues with linking. Thanks for being patient.
Jacob Thebault-Spieker
Online Editor
University Register
I got the Batman joke, and I haven't read nearly as many comic books as PZ has:
Some sideline analysis:
Anonomouse, in his rush to be a dick, forgot the irony lube.
I had no idea my wikipedia entry was supposed to be a complete catalog of my every interest and every scrap of known trivia.
But for your information, I have seen all the Batman movies, including the one with Adam West which I saw in the theater the week it came out. I was reading comic books when they were going through that horrible cute phase (anyone remember Bat Mite?), and onward. On my desk at work right now, not only do I have The Five Fists of Science, I also have the very latest from Jay Hosler...you are allowed to be jealous.
I think it should be obvious from the review text that I knew exactly who the Scarecrow was. I also was not recommending him to work at those other institutions because he is a creationist, but because they, like him, make a living off others' fear.
Hence the burning stupid!
Well, just to change the tone up a bit, that was hilarious! Gotta love campus newspapers.
Also, I just have to say, Radiohead is definitely way better than Metallica. No question about it.
Even people who wouldn't read comics at all would get that the Gotham U reference as cluing PZ that Batman had to be the universe Crane inhabited. I don't read American comics, and even I knew what the reference had to be--and that the question was a bit of fun.
It's amazing how stupid people are not to get that. But then, creationists are that stupid.
Ah, Rusty Limbaugh is back on the Oxy, and all is right with the world again.
Glen's Rush Limbaugh transcript demonstrates how unconcerned about accuracy Rush is--he confuses Richard Dawkins with Stephen Hawking (and Oxford with Cambridge), and doesn't even get the date of "Expelled"'s release right, despite two tries.
Best sideline analysis I've read in years.
Also, isn't it Anthony Flew he's talking about with his "old coot" reference? And this in the context of "scientists, physicists particularly."
lol!
When I saw the "The Register" link, I immediately thought of another (and perhaps more widely read) publication of that name...the one at www.theregister.co.uk. For just a monent I thought that pub had interviewed you.... (The results would probably be very nearly as amusing. El Reg--as they're sometimes known--is willing to call a spade a goddamned shovel.)
Glen Davidson, you owe me! That screed you quoted did serious damage to my blood pressure.
Woooooooooaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh.......... nailing IDiots and getting to have a Cinnabon? I'd call that an excellent evening!
Speaking of interviews, there's a Ben Stein interview at the Bad Idea blog. Take aspirin first, and don't say I didn't warn you:
badidea.wordpress.com/2007/11/25/first-glimpse-of-ben-steins-expelled-and-it-aint-pretty/
Folks, you're wasting your time with Anonomouse. When someone lacks an ear for humour, they can't be taught. Perhaps one day it'll be a recognised disability, and we'll be required to use large, flashing signs reading "^^^ THIS IS A JOKE ^^^". Expect to see creationists play a large part in the campaign for that legislation.
I had no idea my wikipedia entry was supposed to be a complete catalog of my every interest and every scrap of known trivia.
Your name actually appears on Wikipedia's "List of People who have heard of Batman" page, so really it's just poor research on Anonomouse's part.
jfatz#25: At least we Mac people can come up with some evidence for intelligent design ;)
Indeed an Mr Ives's designs show that good, intelligent design is not irreducibly complex, it is simple, clean and elegant.
I think it's significant that imdb.com lists "Expelled", and says that if you liked this movie, you'll probably also like "Endless Summer" and "Endless Summer 2". The Junior Mints industry expects every man to do his duty!
Keep up the good work.
However, his TV show, PZ's Playhouse will achieve cult status.
Well, no wonder they wouldn't let him into a movie theater . . .
The fact the above argument took place without anyone mentioning that it was the abuse suffered at the hands of his deeply religious (adoptive/great) grandmother which began Professor Crane's obsession with fear means you have all automatically failed this semester's Fanboi 101 class.
Whereas the fact I did know this means I fail at a whole lot more.
}:o(
I despair that it was necessary to spell this out.
In other words, he's looking for a God particle.
In other news, today a right-wing radio host was given a beat down by an 85 year-old Nobel laureate for utterly misappropriating the Nobel laureate's own phrase.
I wonder, would a public school teacher in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, be allowed to say the following:
"It is interesting to contemplate ... [all the many forms of life on earth] ... so different from each other, have all been produced by laws acting around us. ... There is grandeur in this view of life, HAVING BEEN ORIGINALLY BREATHED BY THE CREATOR INTO A FEW FORMS OR INTO ONE; and that from so simple a beginning, endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved."
Just imagine a public school teacher who says those words: that God creates life and places it on the earth in a few forms, and then that life evolves according to the physical and natural laws that God put into place in the universe.
Would that be allowed?
Actually, it should be REQUIRED FOR THE TEACHER TO SAY THAT.
Why? Because the quote is from: On the Origin of the Species, Chapter XV, Recapitulation and Conclusion, By Charles Darwin.
If you are going to teach Darwin's theory of evolution in public schools, you should teach what Darwin actually wrote about it.
Michael S. Class
Author
Anthony and the Magic Picture Frame: The History Book with a Message for Today's Young Americans
Read the book. Remember the truth. Share it with your children.
Web Site: www.MagicPictureFrame.com
-----------------------
Mr Class: you have so far posted the same thing 3 times, and your comments include a rather prominent ad for your book.
This constitutes spam. Do it again, and you will be banned.
As for your comment: do you seriously believe we are surprised or unaware of the concluding paragraph of the Origin? Steve Gould's column took its title from that paragraph, the title of Sean Carroll's evo-devo book came from it as well; we love that paragraph. I've got it on a slide I show in my intro course.
Your assumption that we would reject that well-written summary constitutes stupidity. It takes sustained stupidity to get yourself banned here, but I suspect you might be capable of it.
Michael,
Darwin wrote multiple books about evolution. Out of all that text, you want to force teachers to read the only bit where Darwin mentions a "creator?" Hmm, I wonder why? Maybe we should also include his 1863 letter to Hooker where he writes, "But I have long regretted that I truckled to public opinion and used the Pentateuchal term of creation, by which I really meant "appeared" by some wholly unknown process." I guess it would be a good lesson on the dangers religion can pose to scientific inquiry.
Or maybe we should just point out that we don't teach Darwin's theory of evolution in public schools. We teach the theory of evolution, modified and extended by over a century's worth of biological research since Darwin's death. Darwin is not our prophet. His words on scientific matters are not infallible, and his words on theological matters are simply irrelevant to a science class.
Should we force high school physics students to learn about alchemy, when they're learning Newtonian mechanics?
#69: There seems to be a misprint in my copy of The Origin -- it mysteriously omits the words "by the Creator" from the passage you quoted. I suppose it's too late to take it back to the shop now.
Michael Class, you must be new here; everyone at this blog knows where that quote is from. Read some history, understand Darwin's place in time and culture and then maybe we can have a discussion like grown ups.
I just have to say this:
The more I read this interview, the funnier it gets.
As previously noted, you and I are pretty much the same age, but I just never got into comics. I feel so deprived now. Especially now.
Musta been that F-ing Walforf school I went to. Even us kids called it "Waldork."
ROFL
Love it. But you might want to see someone about that Hasselhoff phobia.
;-)
Jim @#72, I believe this is a first/second edition difference.
Nix: Oh, I see. Interesting. In that case I apologise to Mr Class for implying that he was involved in quote fabrication as opposed to ordinary quote mining and spamming.
I don't have a copy of On the Origin of Species, but i do have the next best thing, Steve Jones's Almost Like a Whale where he rewrites The Origin in the light of the Modern Synthesis and in the age of genome projects. He uses the structure of The Origin too and in fact he leaves the last chapter entirely untouched. In my copy after 'grandeur in this view of lif,' is: 'with it's several powers,'. Which clearly relates to the laws he lays out further up the paragraph.