Omnipotent, omnipresent supernatural being (left) deigns to be arrested for raping children.
It's a rough era for deities. This one seems to be subject to ordinary mortal ills, like wrinkles and graying hair, ordinary mortal temptations, like having sex with young girls, and also, surprisingly, is powerless before minor material obstacles, like handcuffs. Odd, isn't it? He should stamp his foot, and the earth cracks wide and his foes tumble into the depths. He ought to wave his hands raise a whirlwind that sweeps away his enemies, scatters their guns, and hurls their squad cars into the sky. But no, they always turn out to be fragile meat with no special abilities, and the most tawdry, revolting tastes.
Wayne Bent, AKA Michael Travesser, AKA minister of the Lord Our Righteousness Church, AKA the Messiah as revealed by God, has been arrested. How do you arrest a supernatural being, I wonder?
I hope they've built a special prison cell for him out of an adamantium/eternium alloy, with a special guard detail of angels and demons. Nothing else could possibly hold messiah.
A little psychiatric help might also be in order.
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"I hope they've built a special prison cell for him out of an adamantium/eternium alloy, with a special guard detail of angels and demons. Nothing else could possibly hold messiah."
I would much rather have him placed in the general population so he can attempt to use his godly powers on the other inmates as they try to make him forget the usual purpose of an anus/rectum.
Rectum? . . . Damn near killed 'em!
.
Let me guess; Wayne Bent's nickname is "Way". Parents who name their kids like that should be surprised when their kids end up with Messiah complexes.
Looks like CNN missed the obvious headline:
"Cops Get Bent"
If they would just stick to adult women, they would get no interest from anyone. But old women are old and not as easily fooled.
I see Myer's Law is still in effect.
He's just following the respected religious tradition of having prophets rape little girls. Started by Mohammad with his 9 year old wife Aisha. (Yes, I know there was something about her being 6, but I don't know if it was being engaged or actually married, and it said they didn't consummate the marriage until she was 9)
"Dieties" - beings with supreme power over what we eat, presumably. (Sorry.)
Alright. Good to see the Lord is working these days. I'm proud of Him.
am i the only one humming "Jesus Loves the Little Children" right now?
I wonder if unanswered prayers fall under mail fraud. If so, his troubles are just beginning.
"He's just following the respected religious tradition of having prophets rape little girls.
Posted by: King of Ferrets"
Don't forget the fine old religious tradition of getting your father drunk & having incest with him. (Genesis 19:31-36)
Careful PZ. I think this Bent dude could be a legitimate deity. Consider the following:
Moses: "Pharoah, let my people go..."
Wayne Bent: "I will speak with the media when they let my children go..."
Huh??...coincidence??
"Don't forget the fine old religious tradition of getting your father drunk & having incest with him. (Genesis 19:31-36)"
That one always struck me as wishful thinking on someone's part.
He is not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!
The Lord Our Righteousness Church was founded in 1987 by former Seventh-day Adventists, according to the group's Web site. "Since that time, many have joined who do not have their roots in Adventism."
That sounds familiar...
In 1981 he moved to Waco, Texas, where he joined the Branch Davidians, a religious group originating from a schism in the 1950s from the Shepherd's Rod, themselves disfellowshipped members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church in the 1930s.
Pro: Thankfully, there was no Waco-style standoff over this one.
Con: Grant Lee Buffalo won't write a kick-ass rock song about it.
Have you seen their site? Whee. If you're in the mood to be showered in crazy, have a look. Ultimately, though, it's just sad. What a waste of life when a person abdicates all reason. How worse it is when people do it in large groups.
There's a movie they've made about themselves posted there, but the damn thing runs 113 minutes. No thanks.
Routine, god gets around. The Branch Davidians, the FLDS, now this group in New Mexico.
And as PZ mentioned, he seems to have a thing about little girls.
What I don't understand is who follows these poseurs? Without followers providing them with manpower, money, worshippers, and their young daughters, they would just be pushing shopping carts around somewhere and getting arrested for propositioning school children.
There is a segment of the population that seems to want to be led and any old rat bag will do. The crazier the better. Way Bent, Jeffers, Bush, Falwell, Robertson, Rushdooney, Hagee, Hagard, Hinn,; an endless parade of the worst our society turns out.
Sounds more like "blame the victim" to me.
"Honestly officer, she got me drunk, and then she was wearing that skimpy outfit and looking at me and all..."
Yeah, yeah, yeah, PZ. They said the same thing about Jesus (except the child abuse thingy -- nasty modern sentimentalities) and look how they were proven wrong. Seriously now, if your god is not at least willing to submit himself to human power and be mocked then how ever are we to believe that he comprehends us ... that he has empathy for us?
There's an explanation for everything you know and all you need to do is listen to that still, small voice. When will you finally submit yourself as your god has, PZ?
He is not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!
Jeph wins!
Dammit, Jeph! I wanted to say that!
But, yikes, I'm flashing back to high school discussions about delusions of grandeur, greed, arrogance and pedophilia as common manifestations of hubris. He's got 'em all!
National Geographic just put this guy on their YouTube yesterday. This whacko would tell all the young girls that they must lay in bed naked with him, and he admitted this shit on camera. Click here for that video.
I like how he claims that "humans are so stupid" and can't defeat him because you can't kill the spirit.
I would tell him that he's welcome to come back and be reincarnated as a child molestor as many times as he likes. We'll make sure to catch and try him each time.
I mean, if he thinks he's Jesus and that he's going to be "crucified" again, why is he smug about it? If Jesus keeps coming back and getting killed again and again, he's no hero, he's a cartoon villain shaking his fist at the end of every episode and shouting "You haven't seen the last of meeeeeeeeeeeee!"
I mean, if he thinks he's Jesus and that he's going to be "crucified" again, why is he smug about it? If Jesus keeps coming back and getting killed again and again, he's no hero, he's a cartoon villain shaking his fist at the end of every episode and shouting "You haven't seen the last of meeeeeeeeeeeee!"
It's Groundhog Day for Jesus! He has to keep getting crucified until he gets it right.
Having the power to make idiots believe me
a messiah would be great.
They would give me all of his money to fuel
my research in enchange for praying and blessing...
This part is mildly extremely depressing:
I don't even know what to say. I wonder what her parents think. If they're part of the wacko religion, they're probably fine with it. Fuckers.
huh - I thought it was trinium one used to keep demons from dropping by unannounced.
It's good they finally caught God. He is wanted for 2,391,421 counts of murder, as well as a lot of minor offenses, with written confessions to all.
http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2006/08/how-many-has-god-killed…
adamantium/eternium, eh?
hardened adamantite or khorium might be preferable.
you know what this reminds me of?
the frame from that revolting jack chick tract in which the kid is (mis-)informed by his mother that there are no moral absolutes, and walks off saying to himself "wow--anything goes. i can lie, cheat. what's to keep me from becoming a god?"
i read that, and after i finished vomiting i thought,
"who thinks that way? what does that even mean, "become a god"? only religionists think that way--healthy, normal kids who were not raised with religion never think that way to begin with. they don't have the god-parasite burrowing into their brain, so a thought like that would never even occur to them."
now i see about this guy, and another piece of the picture clicks:
religionists tend to think what jack chick clearly thinks: if i could become a god, then i could cheat and lie!
yeah, cool! that's the great thing about god--he can cheat and lie and get away with it!
for fucks sake--christians simply have no morals. no moral compass, no moral code. they seem to truly believe that all rules come from god, and that god gets to break them, too.
no wonder they wind up as sick fucks like bent. jack chick is only one step away from that.
#30
"for fucks sake--christians simply have no morals. no moral compass, no moral code. they seem to truly believe that all rules come from god, and that god gets to break them, too."
In my experience, this has been true. In Sunday School, back when I tried to ask our teachers some of the tough questions that were bothering me, like why God killed off men, women and children for the crime of occupying land that his chosen people wanted, they said "Well, he's God. he gave life, so he can take it away. he can do what he wants, since everything comes from him."
Then he added, "Besides, God probably knew that those children would grow up to be evil."
I got this answer from quite a few different people.
Also see the Strong City End of The World Cult Movie about this cult. It's 48min but well worth it. Unbelievabl; very weird! This video will help you get to know the characters in this story very well.
Jesus killed in gunfight with police!
Holy Ghost slips past SWAT team; takes it on the lam!
Film at eleven!!
Hang on,
we had a person on this blog only a couple of days ago professing HE was Jesus and had the website and all to prove it. They can't BOTH be Jesus now can they. I suggest we have a Jesus-off, put both of 'em in a ring and duke it out. The winner gets to be crucified, the loser stoned to death for being a false prophet.
At least our resident Pharyngula Jesus seemed to be a mild wacko. This one's just a paedophile bastard.
I wish he'd resisted the arrest somewhat. I'd give Mr Shrek's left nut to hear the Messiah offer up the immortal words of "Don't tase me bro".
/we had a person on this blog only a couple of days ago professing HE was Jesus and had the website and all to prove it. They can't BOTH be Jesus now can they. I suggest we have a Jesus-off, put both of 'em in a ring and duke it out. The winner gets to be crucified, the loser stoned to death for being a false prophet./
Actually Mrs. Shrek, that's one of the plot threads from the brilliant film "The Ruling Class".
Don't miss Peter O'Toole's chilling primal scream near the end of the movie.
CoH: Impervium and Enchanted Impervium
The Core: Unobtanium
and from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_super_metals
I am reminded that Mithril is the dwarven choice to imprison a God accused of having short eyes. (I think they would make a more pragmatic choice in the above case.)
... and I thought I was the only one in North America to have seen The Ruling Class...
Pardon my atheist ignorance: is Jack Chick a real person? If so, why is he not in our pantheon of evil along with Falwell, Robertson, Graham, Hinn, Hovind, ad nauseum? And I'm confused at why the western US seems to have a liberal let-and-let-live philosophy for eccentricity, militias and nutty religions, but not for civil rights, free thought and evironmentalism.
"The state has made its move, and now God will make his," he said.
I thought the Messiah had special powers. Guess not.
CL
http://www.coulterlewkowitz.com/
There's something seriously wrong with men over 22 who want to have sex with 14 and 15 year olds. I'm fifty, still like lots of sex, and I had occasion to go to a local high school to promote a book written by one of the teachers.
And the teacher was there, signing books, and we were surrounded by 14 - 16 year old excited young girls -- and I felt no sexual excitement or tension at all. These girls, these children, were *unfinished* human beings; awkward, adorable, funny, brash, naive, and pretty, some of them, but none were in fact attractive to me as sexual partners. For one thing -- what would we talk about, before and afterwards?
No, there's some *deep* inadequacy in these self-proclaimed prophets/gods, whose insecurity is so intense they cannot be satisfied with merely being functioning adults, they have to be *deities*, and they are so threatened by normal, equal adult relationships they have to prey on unformed children.
Sure, religion fills various needs, but not the needs of fully functioning adults.
JC is old at 84 and has been reclusive for many years. Mostly he just draws propaganda comics. His other main hobby is hating Catholics. Not really pantheon material.
Well, if he is then you're in a heap of trouble after you die; if not, you've lost nothing, so you might as well believe in him.
Messiahs are ten-a-penny. Have been for a couple of thousand years. Their psychoses are never amenable to reason, the "Three Christs of Ypsilanti" being the classic example.
I bet the bronze-age gobshite who thought up the idea did it to get laid: he probably never imagined how it would catch on.
#28:
Only 2,391,421 accounts of murder? Come on, even Hitler, a petty criminal by comparison, did at least three times better than that. That figure may tally his documented biblical murders (apparently he didn't get caught very often), but the release of the bible certainly didn't dampen his joy in massacring innocent people. He stepped on it.
Interesting that in order to "find God" you must lie naked with this guy. Uhhhh...does that include young boys as well? Don't they get to "find God" too?? What about older guys?
I'm so confused...
#44
To find God, God must first find you attractive.
God loves everyone, apparently.
"Bent had predicted that the world would end October 31, 2007. A post to the site in March said, however: "Now we are in the time of 'the eighth day' -- Shemini Atzaret -- the day after the Feast of Tabernacles, when God said, 'Stay with me one more day.' Now we are in the time that Shemini Atzaret foreshadowed, and Father has been saying to us, 'Stay with me one more year.' ... It is the time of the 'last trump.' In the scriptures, it is 'that day' when the final judgment of man is carried out."
That's pretty interesting that the dude makes a specific prediction that all his followers can see didn't come true and yet they still follow him. Oh well, this has been going on for quite some time. I guess this wacko is an offshoot of the Seventh-Day Adventist Church which has its roots in Millerism. Wikipedia has some interesting stuff on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Miller_%28preacher%29
From 1840 onwards, Millerism was transformed from an "obscure, regional movement into a national campaign." The key figure in this transformation was Joshua Vaughan Himes--the pastor of Chardon Street Chapel in Boston MA, and an able and experienced publisher. Though Himes did not fully accept Miller's ideas until 1842, he established the fortnightly paper Signs of the Times on February 28, 1840, to publicize them.
Despite the urging of his supporters, Miller never personally set an exact date for the expected Second Advent. However, in response to their urgings he did narrow the time-period to sometime in the Jewish year beginning in the Gregorian year 1843, stating: "My principles in brief, are, that Jesus Christ will come again to this earth, cleanse, purify, and take possession of the same, with all the saints, sometime between March 21, 1843 and March 21, 1844. March 21, 1844 passed without incident,and further discussion and study resulted in the brief adoption of a new date--April 18, 1844, based on the Karaite Jewish calendar (as opposed to the Rabbinic calendar). Like the previous date, April 18 passed without Christ's return. Miller responded publicly, writing, "I confess my error, and acknowledge my disappointment; yet I still believe that the day of the Lord is near, even at the door."
In August 1844 at a camp-meeting in Exeter, New Hampshire, Samuel S. Snow presented a message that became known as the "seventh-month" message or the "true midnight cry." In a discussion based on scriptural typology, Snow presented his conclusion (still based on the 2300 day prophecy in Daniel 8:14), that Christ would return on, "the tenth day of the seventh month of the present year, 1844." Again using the calendar of the Karaite Jews, this date was determined to be October 22, 1844.
The Great Disappointment
The sun rose on the morning of October 23 like any other day, and October 22, became the Millerites' Great Disappointment. Hiram Edson recorded that "Our fondest hopes and expectations were blasted, and such a spirit of weeping came over us as I never experienced before....We wept, and wept, till the day dawn." Following the Great Disappointment most Millerites simply gave up their beliefs. Some did not and a viewpoints and explanations proliferated. Miller initially seems to have thought that Christ's Second Coming was still going to take place--that "the year of expectation was according to prophecy; but...that there might be an error in Bible chronology, which was of human origin, that could throw the date off somewhat and account for the discrepancy." Miller never gave up his belief in the Second Coming of Christ; he died on December 20, 1849, still convinced that the Second Coming was imminent. Miller is buried near his home in Low Hampton, NY and his home is a registered National Historic Landmark and preserved as a museum: William Miller's Home.
Estimates of Miller's followers--the Millerites vary between 50,000, and 500,000. Miller's legacy includes the Advent Christian Church with 61 thousand members, and the Seventh-day Adventist Church with over 14 million members.
Hey Brent,
Although God said he created man in his image, that doesn't you are literally God!
Idiot!
Michael Jackson rather famously didn't find anything wrong with it on 60 Freaking Minutes. But Jacko had better lawyers than "God."
... and I thought I was the only one in North America to have seen The Ruling Class...
Posted by: rpenner
I have it on DVD. There goes that theory.
Remember the good old days when a god would change their lover into a cow in order to hide the evidence?
Would arcanite be better ?
Or perhaps we could just equip the guards with Gnomish mind-control helmets.
Hey... Non-Deity held prisoner by fictional game gear, why not!
If wishing could make it so, I wish that I would live to see an end to cases like this.
@dkew 38
And I'm confused at why the western US seems to have a liberal let-and-let-live philosophy for eccentricity, militias and nutty religions, but not for civil rights, free thought and evironmentalism.
For the most part, you find the religious nuts is out-of-the- way places, far from any substantial civil authority. This cult is very close to the Oklahoma and Texas borders, probably for a reason - to evade one state's authorities by crossing a border. This is certainly the case with the Mormon Polygamists in Colorado City, AZ and Hildale UT. Most of that group is on the Arizona side, more than 200 miles from the county seat in Kingman - and you have to go through Las Vegas and part of Utah to get there. The more sparse the population is, the easier it is to be ignored. What small town sheriff wants to have a whole bunch of wierdos in his jail and sucking up county resources.
Free thought is certainly a part of the Old West ethic. A good part of it is a dislike for the gum'mint. Which means a dislike for gum'mint regulations which gives minorities civil rights and lets tree-huggers interfere with their God-given rights to do what they want with their proppity. [except when they can make a buck off the welfare system or from subsidies]
http://s107.photobucket.com/albums/m313/elisson1/Miscellaneous/JebusSwi…
And the milk was free.
A cover version of Metallica's 'Nothing Else Matters' appears in their video. That's odd.
The old greek gods seem far more adept at getting away with various nefarious deeds through nimbleness of thought and action than the various abrahamic manifestations.
I call natural selection on this one. More selection pressure when there's a pantheon of sometimes competing deities looking over your shoulder.
OK, "dieties" has been fixed. I was really just getting even with the gods for all those misspellings of "athiest", you know. Yeah, that's the ticket.
@ #33 - ROTFL LMAO !!!
"A little psychiatric help might also be in order."
A LITTLE psychiatric help? I nominate this for understatement of the year.
Child rapists generally get a particularly warm reception if they are left in the general population in jail. Jailers typically keep them in solitary of protective custody.
But ... seeing as we are talking about a genuine deity here ... As such he should be able to easily protect his honor ... and should be allowed to preach to the flock. A deeply touching service featuring kneeling in prayer and laying on of hands.
P.Z.
I have to say it.. Maybe it's the expensive top shelf beer..but..
I love you P.Z., in the most heterosexual way.
I saw the "adamantium" and I remembered why I love working in Higher Ed.
This whacko would tell all the young girls that they must lay in bed naked with him, and he admitted this shit on camera
Probably learned that trick from Mahatma Ghandi. Hey, it worked for him!
So he claims as his alibi regarding the laying naked with children, that Goddidit.
This is not a good strategy, given that he also claims to be the Messiah. Does this mean that God Himself gets a little confused about being the Trinity?
Does this mean that God Himself gets a little confused about being the Trinity?
Well, to be fair, it is a little hard for the mortal to comprehend. Sorta like the tales children tell when they've been caught with their hand in the cookie jar. Or, er, running a meth lab.
Just updating a cliche for contemporary times.
How to arrest a supernatural being, and the construction of a proper holding cell that will last an eternity is clearly outlined by L. Ron Hubbard . If you a have a decade on your hands, and a few extra hundred thousand dollars for Scientology Courses, you can learn this for yourself.
My guess is that they locked God up with Xenu.
I uploaded some instructional material a couple of days ago:
Part 1, Part2,
Part3, Part4
Actually, bolognium is in great supply, and can be had from almost any Republican.
All of this in the name of religion. Blech. What good is a god who won't even protect his own name?
OK, "dieties" has been fixed. I was really just getting even with the gods for all those misspellings of "athiest", you know. Yeah, that's the ticket.
good.
for a minute, I was thinking Richard Simmons was about to become the head of a new Pantheon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SCJLlSf21Y
Richard Simmons... Say, wasn't he the guy who, once upon a time, released a workout tape called Sweatin' To The Old Ones?
Laying down naked???? That's ITTT ??!! Just like a lame-ass Christian Cult, one fondle short of a Michael Jackson vacation.
In my preferred cult, the Church of the Subgenius , nobody gets out of that situation unravaged, and coming back for more, however, we draw the line at minors.
Most of the hotties in that vid would still be praising 'BoB' instead of that blue-balled false Profit.
Say, wasn't he the guy who, once upon a time, released a workout tape called Sweatin' To The Old Ones?
why do you think he's still so popular in the media?
It's gotta be because he's using the old magic to hypnotize audiences.
He's definetly one of Cthulhu's minions.
(Dagon hates the little spaz, though).
I see MelM at #32 has posted the link to the film Ben Anthony made for Channel4 here in the UK. I knew I was aware of all this. The only question seems to be, why has it taken so long for him to be arrested? I wonder if one of his victims decided to testify.
If the Anthony film is going to be on NatGeo for you guys watch it, or if you have broadband click MelM's link. It is powerful and disturbing stuff. Freedom of religion is all very well, but you guys need to put Waco behind you and clean house, for the sake of the children yeah?
"A little psychiatric help might also be in order."
I couldn't agree more. However, the Bible also talks about this. Yes, I know you don't want to read any myths.
Matthew 24:5
"For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many."
I just had to post it because I wanted to document this.
All you need is iron to stop god according to the bible. So he couldn't shake off the cuffs if they had any iron in them.
Knowing a superheros vulnerability is the only hope for us Pzombies.
Who knows if he is guilty? I mean, CNN says that the accusations are not public, and neither is any proof. I think most people here think that he is guilty mainly because he is the leader of a religious cult, not because of anything else.
And that makes me really sad. I hate the right-wing people who think that every foreigner is guilty, just because he comes from another country. And now, I see the same notion here, where there should be more intelligent people. People who believe in proof over belief. This is true even for You, Mr. Myers!
Some think that atheism is a good sign, that atheists are more skeptical and more rational. But that's wrong, as we can see here. Atheists have stupid prejudices, just like everyone else has. It's only that they have OTHER prejudices. But being atheist does not make You better or more objective in any way. (And I'm an atheist myself.)
If the arrested guy had been an atheist, then I think we would talk differently about him here. We would probably emphasize that eh is not guilty until convicted. Well, and that's the stupid asymmetry that I mean. Did anyone understand this?
If the arrested guy had been an atheist, then I think we would talk differently about him here. We would probably emphasize that eh is not guilty until convicted. Well, and that's the stupid asymmetry that I mean. Did anyone understand this?
Yeah, it's perfectly ok for atheists to to force young girls to lie naked in bed with them, but not religious nuts.
You got us there, you ninja of logic.
If an atheist were arrested for that, everybody would say : "look at what atheism leads to!".
Not here, indeed...
You didn't understand me here. Why do You take it for granted that the guy is guilty? Is there any concrete proof that You know of? Was he convicted?
I think that Myers and the commenters here are - let's say - happy when a "believer" of any kind gets in conflict with the law, so they have someone to run down on. They really search for more and more "proof" that theists are idiots. And therefore, they are more ready to believe a theist is a bad person than to believe an atheist is a bad person. Even in the abscence of proof. That's the whole point. Think about it.
Madoc look at the film and make up your own mind. As I said, I was only surprised it has taken this long for him to be arrested and charged and the minors removed. The film alone presents a prima facie case for child protection measures to be enacted by the authorities. If that were not done here in the UK there would be an enormouse public outcry. Any public official who did not act would be out of a job, pronto. Faster than a Floridian wizard even.
Madoc wrote: "Who knows if he is guilty?"
Well, he did admit it. On camera.
Jesus loves the little children!
(image technically safe for work, the BEST kind of 'safe'!)
"Why do You take it for granted that the guy is guilty? Is there any concrete proof that You know of? "
Maybe because we've seen that every cult leader ever has had sex with his followers. Too many of them do it with children. Seems to be a pattern there... and as has been explained, the guy doesn't even try to hide it. Maybe you're a wee bit gullible?
no, no: madoc has a really good point.
i mean, he's just saying that we atheists would be quick to forgive an atheist in a similar situation.
you know, an atheist who was running a religious cult.
an atheist who claimed to have divine powers.
an atheist who believed that he in fact was jesus christ.
so madoc's point is: if some atheist who believed in god were sleeping with children, we'd probably all be perfectly okay with that.
which just shows how prejudiced we are.
or maybe shows a slight problem with madoc's hypothetical.
When I laid naked with Michael, I saw a greater picture of Who God is, and He is so UNLIKE the earth. He is very tender and gentle with each soul, and His heart is full of pure love for them. He never hurts or molests anyone, but instead draws them into Himself.
In addition to the admissions on videotape, perhaps the reason people think he's guilty is because it's discussed in detail on their website . . . . . the paragraph above is from one of the victims.
http://strongcity.info/LOR/sc/post/a_testimony_of_my_experience/
Wayne Bent and his followers in 'Strong City' were the subject of a UK television documentary a while back, mainly about the run-up to their forecast end of the world and what happened when the world failed to end. I saw it at the time and was utterly creeped out.
D'oh, I hadn't seen the link to the documentary posted by MelM in #32.
@Peter Ashby, MH:
I didn't yet watch the movie. Actually, I get the creeps when I try to. (I assume You mean the movie on the "Strong City" website.) Do You have a hint on when in that movie the cult leader confesses to having had sex with children?
Also, it is important that I do not want to advocate the cult leader in any way. I just refuse the way of judgement that seems to be employed here.
@davem:
Well, that's exactly what I mean: prejudice. That might be a pattern, but it's far from proof. Is there any statistic that shows a strong connection between cult leadership and pedophilia? I mean, do we know how many cult leaders are out there who are NOT pedophile? I guess we just never get to know about most cults. It's only those that make it into the media that we know about.
This is another thing. If he has confessed it, then I am obviously wrong.
Might be, I don't know. It is a habit of mine to never judge before the facts are stated clearly. Not even when I really WANT to judge.
@kid blitzer:
I guess You misunderstood me on purpose, but I'll try to sort it out anyway: My position is that we cannot yet know FOR SURE that the guy is guilty. But even Your mocking of me starts from the assumption that he is guilty. So let me rephrase Your words in my sense:
i mean, he's just saying that we atheists wouldn't be so quick to judge an atheist in a similar situation.
you know, a prominent atheist who gets accused of having had sex with children.
so madoc's point is: if some atheist were was accused of having slept with children, and someone said he is innocent until convicted by law, we'd probably all perfectly okay with that.
which just shows how prejudiced we are.
Actually, Madoc, if your hypothetical atheist had openly declared on a TV program what he was practising as part of his belief system, or for any other reason come to that, then the average atheist I know would want him dealt with forthwith, if not sooner.
Additionally and ironically, all the data points we have so far tend to prove the contention that the average cult leader or leaders are child molesters. Hell, even one of the biggest cults of all, the catholic church, is guilty of it.
By the way, what justification does your hypothetical atheist give for the defloration of many young girls. For unlike the authoritarianism of most religious cults, nothing in atheism allows for such justification. Well ignoring the amoral godless atheist strawman of the fundies. That I assume was the point behind Kid Blitzer's post, i.e. the type of justification used here by the crazy, I am jeebus, is not one that makes sense to an atheist.
Though I can almost guarantee that if someone who happened to be an atheist was brought up on child molestation charges that every xian nut would come out of the woodwork trotting out the amoral godless atheist canard. Irrespective of whether his atheism was relevant to the behaviour or not, standard atheist strawman aside. Unlike the cultist behaviour where this type of behaviour is well documented and even admitted to by the crazy in this particular case.
In other words, don't criticise others for looking at the evidence coming from his own lips and coming to a decision while not looking at it yourself. We understand how unpalatable watching such programs can be, believe me we know. However, that does not justify your accusation against us until you do watch it yourself and so can legitimately disagree with our conclusion. Until then most here will probably simply dismiss you as a concern troll.
Didn't SNL once have a sketch where Phil Hartman was discussing the benefits of being a "False Prophet" for a bronze-age career day? No accountability, moving from place to place, or when you get young girls pregnant, you can claim that the kid is going to be the messiah, etc. It sounded like a good deal for the unscrupulous.
@33
Police kill Jesus in a hail of gunfire. His last words: 'I'll be back!"
Holy Ghost slips through police cordon. . .who ya gonna call? Ghost Busters!!
Seriously, is it prejudice when commenters here are talking about punishment based upon the evidence of the accused's own testimony in a video, as well as steps taken by the authorities- removing children is not a 'first resort' type of action. The comments here are based upon evidence- that evidence may change as more information is made public. @ Madoc- what is your opinion of the O.J. Simpson case? Inquiring minds want to know.
Slightly irrelevant question...
Why does Madoc capitalize "you" in the middle of sentences? Is he going off of the "He" and "Him" being capitalized when referring to Jesus/God etc?
Just didn't know if there was a back story that I wasn't aware of.
The documentary ran here a few weeks ago in the Big Swamp (Southern Louisiana) on one of the tv channels - might've been Discovery or NatGeo or some such thing. The highpoint was when the old fart describes how god had told him to consumate his son's marriage and boink the new bride. Several times. To which the son's comment was something like, well he's god's son waddya gonna do./
When was the last time we saw this sort of behavior being committed in the name of atheism? Sure, atheists commit crimes too, but rarely in the name of godlessness.
"All your women and children are belong to us."
"Maybe because we've seen that every cult leader ever has had sex with his followers."
Unless he cuts off his balls which was the case with the Heaven's Gate cult about a decade ago.
I appreciate your blogging this, but please, please, please, do not repeat the passive, innocent-sounding phrase "having sex with young girls". It isn't legally possible for a 66-year-old to have consensual sex with a 12-year-old. The word you're looking for is "rape".
Hey, if it worked for Gandhi...
Ah, so God really is a sky fairie (elf/fey). Yuh know, because the wee folk and other magical critters have an aversion to iron.
>If an atheist were arrested for that, everybody would
>say : "look at what atheism leads to!".
I don't think so unless he did it in the name of atheism. Relgion does not lead to this kind of thing, but occult like thinking does this. There is a huge difference between religion and an occult. Now of course atheists won't know the difference because they don't care.
An occult? Don't you mean a cult? "Occult" as a noun simply refers to magic, astrology, alchemy, and other "hidden" arts and comes from a completely different etymological root than "cult" (occult: occulere, Latin for "to cover over or conceal"; cult: colere -- to till). You can't use the noun form of "occult" with the indefinite article -- it makes no sense.
And please tell me -- what is the huge difference between a religion and a cult (if that is indeed what you were talking about)? Other than size, that is.
did Kenny ever disavow the message he apparently left us with for Cinco de Mayo?
...or are we supposed to still be burning?
Shouldn't they use unobtanium instead?
That's a reasonable statement on its face, but I can't help but think you're underestimating the impact the ever-popular "atheists have no morals" belief - a belief which you have espoused here yourself, if I'm not mistaken - has on the general perception of what effect the lack of god-belief has on the ethics and moral behavior of the atheist: "Atheism, being inherenty amoral, leads to immoral behavior." No cause necessary.
I think you mean "cult". Let's say you're correct: Religious thinking doesn't lead to this. But what leads to messiah-cult thinking? Rationality? Atheism? Living in a state that lacks a major-league sports franchise?
You should have quit while you were ahead.
Unless he cuts off his balls
that might limit desire, but not function.
why should it be a surprise that Kenny conflates occult with cult?
I'm sure that's what his parents and church group instructed him cults were based on, after all.
Living in a state that lacks a major-league sports franchise?
hmm. if you shrink that to "city"...
:p
OTOH, I've seen tailgate parties that rather looked like cults in and of themselves.
@#103 Ichthyic --
He did disavow it. For many will come in his name, saying, "I am the Kenny," and will mislead many.
You mean El Fuego del Cinco de Mayo?
Да. He denies ever posting it, and has speculated that it was the work of a witless atheist. He may be right.
ah, I see:
*sigh*
nothing correct in that statement, though.
he's not at all witty, and you most certainly can have nutbaggery in one group exclusionary of the other.
Kenny, you're an entire waste of space, lost in your projections from your own cult upbringing.
Oops, I'm overlapping Teh Etha now. ;-)
Does New Mexico have a major-league sports team? I can't think of one...
Does New Mexico have a major-league sports team? I can't think of one...
You mean you've never heard of the Scorpions???
http://www.scorpionshockey.com/
LOL
yeah, me neither.
Still, I was more thinking along the lines of big cities that have lost major sports franchises as being contributory in the formation of cults of desperate people.
er, not seriously, though.
Heh... ok, I get it now. It is odd, though, how a city's being (or, more to the point, not being) a "major-league" town can affect the self-image of its citizenry.
It is odd, though, how a city's being (or, more to the point, not being) a "major-league" town can affect the self-image of its citizenry.
Indeed.
there was a good special on HBO a few months back talking about the old Yankees/Dodgers/Mets wars before the Dodgers moved to LA.
sport fanaticism is a scary thing. It seemed entire cities did indeed base their sense of self-worth and positive attitude on the basis of whether their local sports club won the pennant or not.
I'm not even exaggerating.
this is the documentary if you are ever curious:
Brooklyn Dodgers: The Ghosts Of Flatbush
http://www.hbo.com/events/brooklyndodgers/
there are lots of torrents of it out there.
even if you hate baseball, the documentary is well done, and although not advertised as such, is an excellent glimpse into sports fanaticism.
OH, I don't hate baseball. I like baseball. A lot. Generally, I enjoy sports, even though I rarely watch sporting events and have very little patience for the whole jock-attitude thang. I'm athletic, and played a lot of team sports in school, but I think my image was more like... band-geek / honor-roll... not jock. The problem with sports isn't sports, it's the lack of perspective on what it all means. Obviously, you know this. :-)
(P.S. - I think that should be Yankees/Dodgers/Giants wars. Both NY NL teams had already moved to California by the time the Mets were created.)
Personally, I interpret the outrageous salaries paid to pro athletes as a sort of failure of capitalism. But that's another topic...
I think that should be Yankees/Dodgers/Giants wars.
yeah, maybe I didn't make it clear that I was the one who isn't much interested in baseball.
;)
Baseball, baseball... that's a kind of degenerate colonial version of rounders, the game that British kids play before they're considered ready for cricket, isn't it? ;-)
Why, yes! Yes, it is! :-)
Here is a website started about Travessar by an ex member telling all
The Truth About Michael Travesser
By Prudence Welch
http://www.travesser.info/site/index.php
And make sure and go to the comments, some real wack jobs posting in there.
Re baseball, rounders, cricket (#118, #119). To be fair, some damned foreigner (French, probably) said:
"The English are an unimaginative people. They had difficulty in grasping the concept of eternity, until they invented cricket."
Kenny wrote:
Indeeed. The one is grammatical English and the other isn't.
You'd be doing an immeasurably better job arguing for God if you took a few remedial English classes.