I get email

yeesh....anybody who can actually endure reading all that is a better man than I.

I'm reminded of a quote by comedian Ron White:

"Let me tell YOU something about YOU that YOU don't know."

You're on the money with your assessment, PZ. Dude needs to step back from the computer and breathe. Or, failing that, go look at the "box-of-kittens-cam" or something.

WTF? So his entire point is that he doesn't care what you have to say? Easy solution for you here, David: don't bother to read the blog. What a complete and utter waste of time and effort.

It's amazing how much trouble some people will go to to tell you they don't care.

Get to the frikking point!

Soooo many words and not a single atom of sense. What actually does this witless moron try to say ? Reading his crap is like opening the huuuuge karton your new computer is supposed to be in, just to discover it's just filled completely with these fluffy flakes. You dig and dig and dig and dang, there has to be *something*. But there just isn't. Only fluffy emptyness and stupidity.

That was a REALLY long-winded way to just say ... FU!

Holy crap! Somebody needs a hug, and maybe some medication too.

Fellow maniac here,

PZ, I think this guy is infatuated with you. He keeps saying that he doesn't care what you think, but I can tell that he does.

And by the way, I think you're "peaches and cream" and you teach me things every day... so he's just a big dummy! I wonder if he's stopped kicking and come out of his corner yet.

Sweet. Smurfy. Jebus.

My my! He is upset, isn't he? And what does he have against Whales? I think Whales is the finest part of the British Isles. When I was young, I used to love to spend my summers there. Oh wait a minute, that should be Wales, not Whales. That comes of reading too much Dylan Thomas.

How you do go on, David! Makes me wonder whom you're trying to convince.

I agree Kitsch! I had to start skimming, teh stoopid made my head hurt. Oh, why does it seem that nearly all creotards and IDiots never took and english comp. class?

Mr. Hartmann, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Mr. Hartman is not sensible, but he is mechanically sound. Proper apostrophes, effective colons, paired long hyphens, good spelling, sound sentence structures...that's worth something. I even sussed out paragraphs, though I think the software gobbled up his indents. I want to commend him, especially if that entire screed was composed on short notice, as he says.

The Unabomber wrote precise prose, too.

ice

"What do you know that I don't know? What do you know that I need to know?"

You know he is a crank

He needs to know this.

Christians are apparently happy leading boorish, insipid, wonder-less existences, which require their daily affirmation that the universe is just as boring as their uneducated brains would lead them to believe. Thus justifying their lives of sloth and inaction.

Here in America, this is the best the clergy can expect to extract from their flocks. Were we in Iran, I wonder if this man would enjoy the systematic murder, justified by his barbaric religion, of those his clergy criticize.

Fundamentalist religion is a threat to civilization, not the basis of it.

"I would love to read 500 tons of criticism of what I have just written by your fellow maniacs."

But you're not actually going to consider whether any of these points are valid, are you?

IMO, the fundamental reason why people like P Z Myers treat your opinions with such disrespect it because they are so horrendously uniformed or dogmatic. It's not opinion. He knows his field and hence recognises that you're just parroting myths.

You want respect for your debating points, but you're not coming to the party - figuring out what the debate is actually about. This is why he can be confident that you don't have more biology degrees than he does.

You would get the same treatment from an English academic if you wrote to complain that Shakespeare was over-rated crap because he was gay and anyway it wasn't him who wrote the plays. They know full well you haven't the least idea of what you're talking about, and therefore will accord you no respect.

Apologies for taking him seriously, he just sounds so desperate that I couldn't help feeling a little sympathetic.

That is so very boring. What was he accusing pz of again? Was it something about forcing him to read this "so-called" blog?

I've never see anyone say so little with so many words.

Christ on a stick! And this person is out there somewhere. I hope I don't ever encounter this guy and give him a REAL grievance, like fail to signal when merging.

It's all about him:

I would love to read 500 tons of criticism of what I have just written by your fellow maniacs.

"Let me act stupid so I can bask in the attention."

Wouldn't it be nice if the critics of science finally learned enough to say something that needed an actual response rather than just mockery?

Since he apparently wants to stir up a fuss, I think instead of giving this idiot the attention he craves, we should just ignore him and post as few comments as possible.

Oops, guess I blew that one. Oh well.

"Internet newspaper?" I shot coffee out of my nose at that one. Good thing it was decaf.

Meh ... whatever. At least 1000 words of "You are arrogant, I don't agree with your world view and I want you to shut up."

In all fairness "Negative Karma Engine" would be an excellent name for a rock band!

I have to admit I quit reading it too.

He won't get 500 tons of criticism (is that a new measure of electronic media storage I'm not familiar with?) as he's going to bore too many people.

In skimming around the highlighted parts, I particularly enjoyed the criticism of PZ not knowing when to shut up...this was about 4000 words into his letter with another 2000 words coming.

The depths of American anti-intellectualism are staggering. This is all fun and games until they come to our houses singing The Battle Hymn of the Republic and bearing torches.

I'd like to see this guy have a coffee and a chat with Mr Hitchens.

He claims to respect science, he wishes you would stick to science, and yet he's ridiculing you for thinking the discovery that maiacetus probably gave birth on land is important. What does he think scientists do when they're not blogging? What does he think science is?

I just found out that chemists keep getting all excited about discoveries in chemistry. It's just atoms, people. Get on with your lives!

Bad case of verbal diarrhea.

Actually, I think that the charge "negative karma engine" is a compliment.

but...what's the fuel?

ice

There is something in his ...turn of phrase? ... that makes me suspect he is British. How embarrassing. Sorry.

Prof, you really need to learn that if some crank sends you a rambling, psychotic email, you are not required to post it on your blog, especially since you have declared that such ramblings are the products of kooky, obsessive minds. I'm very concerned for your blood pressure (and the readability of your blog).

I am intrigued. Is this guy like that even in his everyday life? If so, who could possibly bear to stand next to him for longer than 5 minutes? If he is not, where do this nonsensical rants come from?

I really do wonder what kind of mind produces something like this.

I remember David best as the toothy cohost of "Good Morning America" with Mariette Hartley back in the 70's. Sad to see him in his dotage.

Looks to me like Mr. Hartmann has a schoolboy crush on you, PZ.

I notice in your "blog" today

Whoa! Quotation marks around "blog"! This Hartmann guy is brutal. I'll bet you feel duly chastised now.

Don't feel bad, though. You could be providing a public service. There is a very real possibility that his brain-care specialist has assigned him to write you as a therapeutic act.

Dear David Hartman,

I don't care about you either. Or your opinions. Or your opinions of my opinions. Or your opinions of other people's opinions on my opinions of your opinions. In fact, I don't care about you so much that I'm going to spend about two hours crafting a really long opinion about why I don't care about you. That's how much I don't care about you!

OK, so here goes, are you ready? Are you? You'd better be sitting down, because I don't care about you so much...

Oh wait. I'm bored already. I think I'll go read about whales instead. That at least provides insight into the biological nature of mammals.

Thanks for listening.

I'm glad that I'M not required to read everything you post, PZ, because that guy's email was WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY too long. I read the parts you wrote, and skimmed the lengthy email (something about HE thinks YOU think HE should be upset about how cool that whale fossil was), but I'm glad you say you're not going to turn your blog over to all of those blabbery whackos. I don't mind a lengthy diatribe when it's ABOUT something, but life is short. But I guess for those who believe in eternal life, time (among other things) doesn't have the same value that it for rational people.

Oh no - your negatative karma engine ran over the negative dogma engine...

...need to feed all the crank emails through a markov chain-based generator. That way PZ could produce statistically accurate crank cretinist emails on demand!

Think my fave bit was this:

You undoubtedly believe that you are in some sense "saving the world" by condemning others, but what in God's name do you hope it will accomplish ?

What in God's name indeed. Oh wait, you already answered yourself: save the world. And then there's the minor problem with how athiests, um, don't do anything in God's name.

I didn't realize fail came in such high concentrations. I hope protective gear wasn't required to handle this stuff.

That's like the longest email ever.

@David Hartmann:

Here's something you don't know you pointless boob: you're a terrible stylist. A grasp of the basic grammatical tools is not a substitute for content.

I'd suggest you try again. Write something of substance this time. Something else you plainly don't understand is that this "blog"'s readership is open-minded enough to acknowledge a palpable hit when it's delivered.

You guys are being too tough on him. In Hartmann's defense, he did spell "Myers" correctly.

Oh, and Mr. Hartmann, try to imagine how little we care about your daft opinions.

Yikes. tl;dr

I... tried... reading... the... hhrrzzzzz..... (snort)zz.. whole ... thing... (Yawn)

It was long wasn't it?

I failed...

La-de-dah-de-dah-de-da.

Did he just stop in mid-rant and break into a chorus of "Brown-Eyed Girl?"

What do you know that I don't know?
What do you know that I need to know?

Two very insightful questions to ask. I think that if more people asked these questions about each other, the world might be a better place.

Answer: you don't know anything that I need to know

Ah. Maybe not.

Guy really needs to get to the point a bit faster. Really just rambles around a lot.

Someone already said it, but who is this guy trying to convince. Sounds like PZ hit a serious nerve and Mr. Hartman is struggling with some serious doubt.

I feel sorry for him. He's clearly trying way to hard to hold onto something that isn't working for him anymore.

That... diatribe was remarkably laced with insecurity. Notable of a passive-aggressive personality.
/e-diagnosis

But honestly, it reminds of when I broke up with a girlfriend a while back.

"I don't care what you think, but you're selfish and self-serving. Again, I could care less what you think, but I can't stand the way you keep the toilet seat up..." And so on and so forth.

But I think he may have a point. I don't particularly agree with the way P.Z. refers to the "common man" followers of creationism, since it has a way of chastising them and pushing them away instead of teaching them something about evolution.

BUT, I do agree with the way he mocks and makes aggressive criticisms of the so-called leaders of the creationist/ID movement. They are trying to bombast the educational system with their schlock and deserve to be made fun of.

We are the maniacs? People who live in glass houses should not throw rocks!!

Ten points for grammar and spelling, zero for content.

Mr. Hartmann, I will take a crack at your questions - "What do you know that I don't know? What do you know that I need to know?" To the first, the answer is - How the world works. To the second - You are an ignorant fool. Sit in front of your mirror, read you rant aloud and think about how it sounds and makes you look. After this exercise you should realize that your manners and comprehension of life can only be equated to that of baboons and only then by libeling and slandering the habits and mentality of those creatures.

I also wonder why all of you ranters bring up that PZ lives in a small town and teaches at a Univ in the same. I thought the small town was the heart of America, Sarah Palin's real Americans. Was she not correct?

Ah well, need to get on with converting kittens to food and my experiments on making fuel from puppies. The life of an atheist is hectic.

Mr. Hartmann, I will pray for you.

Ciao y'all

This is the kind of stuff that makes me wonder if I shouldn't get away from the computer and go do something worthwhile with my life.

Hey David Hartmann, just because you call yourself an intellectual and humanist, doesn't mean you are one. I'm not sure many of that type believe in "negative karma engines". And how do you write that long insane, rambling, babbling manifesto, and then come to the conclusion that PZ is the "arrogant" and "obnoxious" one. Yikes!

Gee, there are a lot of Associate Professor David Hartmanns out there. Too bad. I should like to send him an e-mail chiding him for his failure to use a comma around "sir" and "mister," his overuse of scare quotes, and the comma splice in his last sentence, among other things, such as lack of compelling content. F-minus-minus.

Wow, that email was so lacking in content it even missed out the usually compulsory references to Hitler.

I did read the whole thing because I am a hero. This was the best bit:

"You undoubtedly believe that you are in some sense "saving the world" by condemning others, but what in God's name do you hope it will accomplish ? In the hope that there will be more "intellectual", sarcastic, blow-hards such as yourself? How liberating! What a positive boon for thinking people everywhere! What a vision for the future well-being of the human race! La-de-dah-de-dah-de-da."

There's something really brilliant about how he calls PZ sarcastic and then immediately launches into what looks like an extreme parody of sarcasm, especially the la-de-dah bit. It's possible he was doing it all in an ironic way, but I have my doubts.

I really hope PZ Myers starts writing blog posts in that tone of voice. "Creationism! How true! How incredibly accurate! La-de-dah!"

Shorter version for those who couldn't make it through (myself included):
You're an arrogant jerk who doesn't know/write anything I don't already know. I wish I knew how to quit you.

For those that didn't/won't read the entire thing: I just have and I came out of the experience dumber. Don't bother. There isn't one single coherent point to the whole thing.

Mr Hartman doesn't like PZ's actions, his (in Mr Hartman's "mind"*) arrogance, and well, the fact that PZ is now a "public figure" who has an opinion or two that Mr Hartman dislikes and isn't afraid to express it. Because PZ is a "public figure" Mr Hartman is free, very free it would seem, to send PZ anything he likes and critique him any way he likes.

Throughout the ENTIRE diatribe provided by Mr Hartman there is not one single argument other than "PZ = Teh Meenie" and how he should shut up and get back in his place. No comment on science (other than to dismiss it out of hand), no rational assessment of anything, just pure, unmedicated spleen venting. It's a less coherent version of the "framing" debate.

I'm thinking Mr Hartman needs to check into his local psychiatric unit and speak to someone about his obvious issues, which may or may not include: closet homosexuality inspired man love, mania, paranoia, schizophrenia and simply being a real life concerned lunatic.

I hope this helps.

Louis

*I can has scare quotes too. Ain't they fun?

tl;dr

Save time for reading something more worthwhile - like about titanoboas for instance.

Also an all purpose quick response to other emails of this type.

Wow, he's awesome, can i have him?

And "negative karma engine", nice going PZ! That's only one rung down from "internet haet machine"!

Ad Hom much?

I concur with commenter-#15. There are properly used em dashes right near a properly done quotation with ellipses for the unquoted excerpt. It's like he managed to pull out a grammar-guide worth of grammar in one insane rambling monologue.

As for those that don't want to read it, the beginning and ending ramble too much to have clear points other than, "You think I'm crazy, _you're_ the crazy one!" type assertions.

Oddly enough, there is a bit in the middle about whales and biology that's like a anti-climate change type going out to hump a tree, then demanding to know why that particular tree is so freaking important to the entire environment.

:PS: Bad PZ! Put the letter below the fold, the whole messy thing is bloating up the main page.

Wall of text crits you for 93847472! You die.

Hey PZ, how about a little warning on the length of the thesis before we start reading it? Not cool, man. Not cool.

I've not read this email. I have a life. :-D

Okay.... I read bits and pieces. What is up with the quotes around "blog" (every single time). Isn't this a real blog? You could have fooled me...

"You offer no insight into the nature of things! Stop wasting your time blogging and get on with something useful and relevant to science!

What's that? A fossilised whale that needed to give birth on land has just been discovered? SO!?"

Five lines, dude. The most important part of writing is editing.

I must admit, this fellow is remarkably lucid. Neither spelling nor grammar appear to provide a challenge, and given what PZ has posted from his detractors before, that alone is quite impressive. But on top of that, he actually seems to have a train of thought, and to represent it coherently!

Now, of course, his point seems to be that he has no concept of the value or process of science. That, and that he finds himself compelled to read everything by any public figure he has ever been exposed to, and that he has a duty to respond vociferously if nonsubstantively. That level of empty miscomprehension is not often combined with this level of clarity. Impressive, indeed!

There is something in his ...turn of phrase? ... that makes me suspect he is British. - Pete, UK

Not American, anyway: "behaviour", not "behavior". How do Antipodeans and Canadians spell this word? But yes, this particular species of pointless blather strikes me as most likely to be British.

Oh, by the way PZ, here's some "insipid praise", just so you don't run short: on the whole I think your blog is quite good.

Boring letter. Now can we get back to the evilution, please?
stephanurus

Well, on the plus side, David did manage to include the word "vociferous".

Among other things, it sounds like he doesn't quite comprehend how science works.

He brings up the supposed insignificance of knowing the whale was once a land animal to his daily life. This is true, he probably doesn't need to know this on a daily basis. However, science is largely about small, incremental advances in knowledge, not the giant leaps forward. Knowing that science generally works this way means you don't assume every minor not-yet-repeated experiment signifies a paradigm shift even when the media presents it that way.

It's also probably the first time I've heard a troll complaining you offer too much science in your blog. If he wants something he can use on a daily basis (that doesn't involve understanding how logic and careful investigation works), he should subscribe to a restaurant blog or business blog instead.

At the level of the sentence, at least, this poor fulminating fellow is not a bad writer. What a shame that he must dwell forever and ever among the benighted and the unredeemed.

"So be it. I don't care, I will write my rants anyway."

I guess he's used to talking to entities that don't respond to him.

I wonder what he makes of god's silence?

I'm really amazed he typed all of that out. If anyone ever DID meet him in person, I imagine he's the type to go off on a mindless rant and continue babbling long after you've backed away and escaped.

Mr Hartman,

Tim Berners-Lee just called. He says the Internet is not about you. Sorry.

Wow. I truly hope that is one of the longer e-mail rants you have ever received. It was mind numbing in content and length.

That said it seems to come off to me as "Hello, I'm a masochist. Could you please print my rant so that I can be abused in the replies to get my kicks?"

Why is it. That so many people (and so many otherwise reasonable people - though I'm not sure this applies to Mr Hartmann at least during the time he was clattering furiously at his keyboard) are unable to happily disagree with things they disagree with, agree with what they do agree with, and refrain from condemning an entire person on the basis of how they put across those ideas.

I like to reserve my outrage for more important things.

Well sir, lah de dah! I don't care a bling for this!

This letter was hilarious. I almost made it all the way through the densely packed invective. He sounds like a cross between Raffles the Gentleman Thief and a character from Gone With the Wind.

The irony is that it's dickheads like this chap that created all the so-called 'militant atheists' in the first place. If ignorant fools would just shut up and stop dissing science we'd all be mild-mannered agnostics. Well, I probably would be.

Still, it's nice to think of the fundies all getting apoplexy and collapsing over their keyboards in a welter of righteous bloody drool because science bloggers write about science on their blogs.

Another fun form of repression:
http://www.feministing.com/archives/013535.html

Louis:
Great assessment.
Poor David, the white male christian would-be tyrant, is becoming more impotent. He's the liar* that roared.

*(for Jebus)

Man, this guy really needs to learn that if I put something on the web, he is not required to read it, especially since he has declared that I don't know anything he needs to know. I'm very concerned for his blood pressure.

This wasn't required reading, was it Professor?

Because I simply couldn't get past the second paragraph before I went all cross-eyed.

I made it as far as the first "What do you know that I don't know? What do you know that I need to know?" before my eyes glazed over and my brain actually interpreted the further ramblings as "Blah blah blah..."

Without being a party-pooper, the guy actually has a pretty good point. PZ can be a colossal dick sometimes, for no other reason than to be one.

I can sum him up in one word "Cuckoo"

I've arranged for the nice men in the white jackets to call round and take Mr Hartmann to a nice padded room....

@ 65

I agree, a little warning would be nice PZ. I think my cerebellum just fused.

It never ceases to amaze me, in my time on the internet, the lengths to which people will go to say they don't care about you (or your opinions, hobbies, etc.), when all they have to do is remove themselves from your site. Nothing is forcing anyone to go to any one site, and that's one of the beauties of the internet. All you have to do is stop reading. Then, you are no longer under the apparently oppressive views of those with whom you disagree (or about whom you don't care).

But still, people continually prove that in not caring, they somehow feel obligated to write a dissertation on why they shouldn't care, why others shouldn't care, and why you're wrong for caring about things yourself.

Faintpraise, you forgot "don't care a fig."

I use to try to understand religious people; to get into their head and see things from their side. I've been much happier since I've completely given up. It's painful. It may sound harsh, but they are all huge liars and frauds. They always claim to have some big deep agenda, but in truth they heard just heard or saw a comment that hurt them, so they lash out in an attempt to hurt the person that said it. Completely base instinct.

Evidently Aaron has penis envy.

Diarrhea of the mouth, this guys got.

I would love to read 500 tons of criticism of what I have just written by your fellow maniacs.

Not really worth 6 oz. of criticism. Shot thru & thru w/all kinds of cognitive dissonance.
(Yawn)

Why praise the guy's spelling and grammar? He's one step above totally frothing moron because he wrote the email in Word and used the spell/grammar check function? Come on people, if you can't practically SEE the underpants on this guy's head you've missed out somewhere! Reasonable written English is a very low bar to set given modern technology.

Since he went over and over and OVER the same point umpteen times (apparently PZ is a public figure dontcherknow, and thus entitled to receive frothing rants etc) I'm guessing some amphetamines were involved, or at least something that gives a pharmacologically similar result.

Aniwae, I dun fink speeling nor thou's grmeer is vat impawtahnt anihough.

Tongue firmly in cheek.

Louis

Robin @4 wins everything

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

Calm down Mr Hartmann, its only a website.

How did you manage to find it? Or, if it was accidental, why did you read it?

Dear Mr. Hartmann,

You're funny!

Sincerely,

Stephen Moore.

Wow. The stupidity, it burns. My brain started melting after the first couple of sentences...

Our Father which art in Morris, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in the ocean. Give us this day our daily squid. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us into temptation, and deliver us into evil(lution): For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Ramen.

Happy now, Fucktard Hartmann?

so take it like a man, would you please?

There's something particularly unmanly about responding to email with a blog post? Do I get to invoke the whole "patriarchy" complaint now?

(no offense to marilove and Endor if you think it's a minor point. Actually, I think you'd rather agree that it's a damaging phrase)

Thor's trousers!

Has this guy come up for air yet?

All I got from that was - "I know I don't know you in person PZ but you sure as hell annoy me cos your an arrogant public figure"

I am jealous - I only have 3 people praying for me at the moment and I got a very kind email from someone concerned that God loves me and is going to send me to hell unless I worship him!

:)

My negative karma engine runs on biodiesel. I am planning on converting it to run on hydrogen in the near future.

But seriously, its not about what people NEED to know. If they can get dressed in the morning and feed themselves, not relive themselves in public, etc then they know all they NEED to. Its about the WANT to know.

Wow. I pity anyone who has to live with or deal with him on a daily basis. The nagging has to drive them a bit batty.

Dear David,

I'm not going to criticize you. I would only suggest that next time you decide to write one of these letters, instead open your mind and take the time to learn a little about science. Maybe you'll find something that interests you.

Yet another human being,
Ken

I must humbly apologise for my use of the word "your" instead of "you're" - I am an English Graduate and so therefore don't know any better!

:)

Maniac # 443, checking in.

Mr. Hartmann, you have no idea who we (many more than 500) maniacs are. We respect Dr. Myers for his work, not his beard. We are fathers and mothers and grandparents who love their families and work hard. We're educated, and rational, and concerned for humanity.

In short, we're nothing like what you seem to think we are. You, however, have proven yourself exactly like we think you are. Bravo.

That letter defines the opposite of laconic: maximum word use; minimum information.

PeteUK @31. I immediately thought "British" (even "English"), too. I too apologise.

Yes, you are right Matt Heath.
Robin @4 says all that's really needed.
PZ should delete everything else to make sure Mr Hartmann doesn't miss it!

I read far enough to see that he spelled "PZ Myers" correctly. I knew from that point that this is not a true crank and that he would be boring.

Since we will probably never meet in person, this is the best I can do.

Why is it that so many of these people who claim to follow the sky-fairy who wrote "love thy neighbour" also seem to make thinly (and not so thinly) veiled threats?

Why do you think so many people write these "harangues" anyway, professor?

Lack of appropriate medication is the reason that springs to my mind.

To pretend to worship you, as others might, for sharing some superior insight you believe you have into the nature of things, would be lying on my part to say the least.

Heh. I won't speak for everyone but sometimes I think PZ is a dick. I read here because it's interesting and there's often something to be learned. Being a dick and having something important or interesting to say are two things that simply aren't related. People who offer to pray for me are dicks too, but they're the kind that don't have anything important to say.

Personally, I would think it really weird if there were many PZ sycophants who just believed everything he said. In fact, I think PZ would think that is weird too, and wouldn't like it much.

What do you know that I don't know? What do you know that I need to know? Answer: you don't know anything that I need to know.

WRONG!thanks for playing! As a minimum, he knows how to think critically and considers it important to spread the knowledge and benefits of thinking critically around to other people. Everyone needs to know how to think critically.

I am a psychiatrist. Judging from this mail, this man really needs therapy.

I have to confess I started skimming half way through - but his comments about the Whale ancestor giving birth on land illustrate that huge problem we have with religious America.

This is really cool stuff we're finding out about the world around us - unravelling a marvelous tale of 4 billion years of biological evolution. Whether its 1 ton snakes, Whale ancestors, the origins of the adaptive immune system or that breasts arose from teeth (so to speak) - these are truly fascinating insights into how we (the collective biosphere) came to be here. This is real insight.

I have no idea how educated David Hartman is, but his dismissal of the Whale information illustrates perfectly the kind of dark age people like him would bring upon all of us if they had the power to do so. They're trying to accomplish this right now through an assault on the education system (including Universities it now seems), and their mindset is well illustrated by the tone of this letter. They don't fight with alternative ideas, but try to dismiss scientific insights as incomplete or inadequate (without any details of course), and launch instead into ad hominem attacks and project all the intellectual detritus of religion ("belief", "worship" etc) onto their opponents.

Their tactics are identical to those used by the Republican right - and I'm pretty sure I could tell how David Hartman voted in the last election. They lost.

I have looked hard for a while now to find some redeeming qualities in all your brouhaha, but from one intellectual and humanist to another, they just ain't there.-David Hartmann

David:
Hint - you're not an intellectual, you're a muddled-thinking crank.

I tried but failed.
Couldn't get past " but my God, they knew when to shut up! "

(Is there a price for the one who read it ALL? IF so, I bet the price remains unclaimed...)

I agree with David Hartman. And it's kind of amusing to see how prophetic his words are - you are all proving him right by heaping tons of criticism on him.

You guys are all of bunch of educated idiots.

Hey PZ, I think all this hostility may be hinding some rampant sexual attraction.

Let's see, you called PZ a "blowhard," implying he's, ummm, loquacious? Garrulous? Verbose? Hmmmmmmm....

You say you don't care what PZ has to say. In the words of another prolific writer, "The [believer] doth protest too much, methinks."

Please, please, please, Mr. Hartman, google "pithy" before writing again -- if for no other reason than to save a bit of wear and tear on your poor keyboard.

The man is lucid, and reasonably well educated, as implied by his decent grammar, spelling, and vocabulary. He's just very, very, very angry.

I can answer his big questions...

What does Mr. Myers (or any scientist) knows that you don't know? His field of expertise. Duh. Much like a physician, or auto mechanic, or cabinetmaker. It just happens to be, in this case, biology.

Why does Mr. Hartmann need to know these things? On a practical level, evolutionary theory is intertwined into: all subfields of biology, medicine, geology, and fairly significant chunks of chemistry and physics. Walking whales as a very, very, small but contributory part of the picture.

On a more basic level, the answer is "because it is there." Exactly the same reason why whats-his-name climbed Mt. Everest. Mr. Hartmann seems to have abandoned crucial facets of the human condition: curiosity and the lure of the challenge.

His rant reminds me of the surly high-school student in algebra asking, "Why should I bother learning this?" indicating a total lack of vision as to where this knowledge might lead.

Mr. Hartmann, you don't care. You don't want to question. You aren't curious. That's fine. You are free to spend your life in self-imposed ignorance.

I don't know, it may be me but I get this strange feeling that Mr. Hartman doesn't have an overly stimulated curiosity about the world.

I also think he has a hard time understanding what the whole blog thing is all about.

To paraphrase many a person

If you don't like what you are reading, move to a different web page

He kind of made me feel like the Tinkerbell, the Chihuahua that belonged to Paris Hilton in South Park. Here's the Youtube, in German unfortunately, but you'll get the idea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jIzRZr7zW0

If this guy is trying to condemn PZ, he could at least have the decency to be funny.

Although, I guess his utter failure to grasp how yet another "transitional" fossil fits into the greater scheme of evolution would be funny, if it wasn't such a common problem :(

Oh no, now *I'm* not being funny. Quick, look at the kitten:
http://filer.case.edu/bwb8/graphics/condemned_cat.jpg

This may have been mentioned already, but I'm on my iPhone and it's hard to read all the comments on the small screen. Sorry for repeating topics if so.

Did anyone happen to notice that despite claiming to be a humanist and harbor nothing against science, he continually referred to it as "your science"? Indicating he has no faith in it himself. Not suprising, but odd how he went about it all. Also he said "my god" like nobody else is entitled to his god. Not that I care about his invisible friends. Just shows arrogance, and he supposedly doesn't like arrogance. Hypocrisy, the bounds of it never end.

Epikt

That was made of win!

Too long. Didn't read.

I "think" it was the "quotation" marks that finally "got" to me. Why do the "creotards" do that? Do they even "know" what quotation "marks" are for?

Well, see you all "tomorrow" then. I have already exceeded my Recommended Daily Allowance of WGS*.

*Weapons-grade St00pid

What an amusing little friend you've made! Teehee!

I don't like you, nor your "blog" .. would have sufficed.

TL;DR

DAMN! I actually was lured into this one and read the whole *&^%#$&@& thing! I kept hoping for a point ... waiting for it ... waiting for it ... nothing! It's like buying ticket to a terrible movie and saying to yourself, over and over again, "it just has to get better..." But it never does.

Simple response for Mr. Hartman and his intense "not caring" about PZ's blog ...

DON'T READ IT

Wow, that was rough, I had to think, and type, and, well, actually not so much ... it was surprisingly easy, and now I have the remaining 3 hours and 57 minutes to go do something productive... Yea me!

Thanks for the one sentence summaries. I couldn't get through the whole thing because he was arrogant and said nothing I cared about. (Oh, perhaps I would have written that statement over several pages instead and be just like him).

PZ where is the Doofus background?

If anything deserves it, this does.

Dear Mr Hartman,

OK, we get it. You don't care about whales. You don't feel you need to learn anything about them.

Perhaps I don't really need to, either. But I love to. I jump with joy each time I learn about a new fossil whale. I did when I first heard of Ambulocetus. I just did when I read about Maiacetus. I'm overjoyed about this.

Whales are our friends. I'm not talking about this silly "swim with dolphins" crap; I think the dolphins have a right not to be bothered by humans. But we share a planet with whales (and they are intelligent, did you know that?), and if you share a planet, you'd better be friends. And I like to learn about the history of whales, about how they came to be. Land animals slowly morphing, step by step, into sea dwelling animals, complete with flippers, a blowhole on top of the head, and many other adaptations. Isn't this crazy? Who would have guessed? And yet, it happened. We have many intermediary steps, and every now and then, a new one is discovered. Every time, it fits nicely within the known series, and every time, it makes me a little happy.

What makes you happy, Mr Hartman? Being with your loved ones? I hope so. But what makes you happy when you learn about it? Nothing? Or hearing that some supernatural being loves you? But where's the evidence? It would be physically possible for me to check every new thing I hear about whales. I could go see the newly discovered bones by myself. I could read more and understand better; or I could take a sabbatical and seriously study paleontology.

But what about you? Perhaps your nebulous being actually hates you, and it's its fault if you broke your leg or tragically lost a family member. Perhaps it plays dice, and gives you good or bad things on a whim. Perhaps it doesn't care, and it's not responsible of anything that happens to you. And perhaps it's simply not there, which is almost the same. Why choose one of those solutions rather than the others? What are the reasons? And what does it bring you?

Mr Hartman, please, try to be frineds with the whales rather than with supernatural beings. They do exist... but for how long? The more you'll know about them, the more you'll like them. Unlike gods, fairies, gnomes and devils, they actually need you to like them. Because they need us to stand up for them, to say that they must live on, not disappear from the face of the Earth. The Earth that we share with beings of flesh and blood, both human and non-human. There are so many things you need to learn about them. You can't be arrogant when you learn. Try it and you'll see.

oh fuck not martha

It is now my mission to Poe-up a crank email to see if I can get PZ to post it.

Hey, what happened to my comment?

Hate to repeat it in case it reappears, but...

That mail defined the opposite of laconic: maximum word use; minimum information.

PeteUK @31 I, too, thought "British" (even "English").

Jeez, my eyelids hit the deck with this rant. Note to Mr. Non-Stop: textual bloviating is not the same thing as having a point.

As I kept scrolling and scrolling (and scrolling), I was really hoping that it was from Ben Stein.

Oh well...

If this guy is trying to condemn PZ, he could at least have the decency to be funny.

Or at least cleverly insulting.

hmm... He might be a Brit, Canadian, Antipodean, or he might just have a pretentious affectation for writing in "British" English. Based on the rest of his pompous nonsense, I'd vote for the latter.

That, ladies and gentlemen is what happens when you let someone with both a narcissistic personality disorder and a massive inferiority complex loose on a keyboard.

You know those drunks who sidle up to you and slur...You think you're better than me?
Well duh, yeah I think I'm better than anyone who ever asks that question.

So mr fancy schmancy professor Myers, you think you're better than this guy with all your hi-falutin education and big words, do you, huh, do you?

I think I can sum this up (pardon me PZ if I get your side wrong)....

PZ (to the world): Please back up your assertions with verifiable facts, or kindly STFU

Mr. Hartman: I don't know any facts and I don't care if you do. You are mean because, because.... you want me know facts. PHHHHHTTTT!

There - I think that does it.

I too would like to complain about a certain "PZ Myers": this letter was a gold mine for the red font inline commentary. Now I feel compelled to waste most of the day ... No. Must not. Must work. Shouldn't activate snark hormones.
Skimming that monstrosity makes me fear for David Hartmann and anyone near him during one of these spells. Maybe he's all upset because he made it all the way to that final paragraph and then the power failed and he lost it all before hitting send and then he had to compose it all over again.
It's OK honey, just take the kids to your mother's and tie me to this chair. Bring me a pot of coffee. Make sure the dog has plenty of food and water and I'll call you in a few hours after I get this sent.

Also, I would like to have my rat's behind back. I know I sent it to you as a gift and as a token of my appreciation but David Hartmann was correct when he said that no one gives a rat's behind and I was wrong to send you one.

I need to worry and think about how scientists think whales used to reproduce in the past? Or, I need to overly concern myself the fact that scientists believe that whales may have changed over millions of years? That's IT? That is an example of the kind of earth-shattering insight that you would share with humanity as a scientist? This is why you are so incessantly noisy and bothersome and offensive to others who don't happen to be scientists?

No, the whales are just a cover. Like all Super Scientists, PZ is working in his secret lab, developing a Death Ray.

Soon, the whole world will be his.

BWAHAHAHAHA

As I kept scrolling and scrolling (and scrolling), I was really hoping that it was from Ben Stein.

Oh well...

How can any sane person agree with Mr. Hartmann? Talk about a pointless ramble. As the good Rev. BDC mentioned, if he doesn't like this blog, find another one. Or, even shut off the computer and read a book.

Just for giggles (!) I pasted the text into OpenOffice and ran a word count - 1,980 words without ever making an actual point, posing a question or arguing a point. This reminds me very much of the disjointed ramblings you hear from schizophrenics, and may explain this guy's behavior. Any mental health professionals out there care to comment?

Wow. I think I could actually feel my intelligence leaking out through my nose while reading this man's jumbled, nonsensical rant. Blood pressure should be the LEAST of his concerns.

We respect Dr. Myers for his work, not his beard.

Speak for yourself. I for one have a great respect for that beard.

It has powers.

That was magnificent in a Shakespearean tragiclown self-deluded soliloquy arguing-myself-to-destruction kind of way.

"internet newspaper"
heh

PZ: I am amazed at the fact that you are able to read this kind of mail. The "Send to trash/delete" button would be too much a temptation for me!

Martha> I'd greatly prefer to be an educated idiot rather to an uneducated ignoramus. You should try that next time you consider using the word educated as an insult. Anti-intellectualism may impress your bowling league friends, but it doesn't fly so well here.

That email was inspiring, lets all read blogs about things we don't care about and send emails to the authors telling them we don't really appreciate their tone. I've got some heavy words for a certain French Ceramics blogger.

TAKE IT LIKE A MAN, PZ!!!

This will be how I greet PZ from now on.

This wasn't required reading, was it Professor?

I say we try to do that weasly first-year C-student negotiation thing, and request that any exam questions be only on the first two sentences...

Which, okay, are all I can actually comment on. But those, for what it's worth, were sort of... sad, really. Someone seems to feel he's not getting enough attention...

Should we maybe get together a collection, buy him a puppy? A nice, wiggly, furry puppy that'll grow into a dog, and hang on his every word, lick his hand, tell him with soulful brown eyes that he's important, really...

Okay, yes, it'll cost us a bit. But think of the bandwidth and disk space it could save.

All of you who managed to read through more than the first few sentences. You have my respect.
And, dear Mr Hartman, let me guess, you're some low-level bureaucrat, stuck in the same job for decades, composing government guidelines for the proper labeling of fish food containers. I understand. That would be frustrating, indeed.

Dear Mr. Hartmann,

If you're reading this, by now you're probably feeling a little disrespected. But I think there are things that you know that I need to know. Specifically, what type of tin foil hat works best to protect you from the space rays? Does name brand foil work better than generic? Is there a particular folding technique that offers more protection from the rays?

Anxiously awaiting your reply,

Marty

"La-de-dah-de-dah-de-da."

Christ! That underlined da was the clincher. I believe!

congratulations for making PZ's blog Mr. Hartmann.

congratulations PZ for giving Mr. Hartmann the honour...

just wondering why you bothered to read his drivel though.... wife not home?? nothing on TV again??

lolz

. . . and his point was, what?

***In the spirit of good will, this is long and a side issue, skip over it to get on with the mockery!***

On the subject of not caring (and in the case of Mr Hartmann, sorry for earlier misspelling, not caring at quite some length), I have to agree with Joshua Tate @ 87 and others.

Think of an example, like Uncommon Descent. I don't agree with much they have to say there and I'm not particularly interested in the site. However, at AtBC there are a number of people who ARE interested and spend time at UD arguing with the denizens, or cataloguing their hilarious hypocrisy and nonsensical witterings. I do not condemn those who have a passion for the foibles of UD, I just don't share it to the same extent. Thus I very, very rarely go to UD. I am content to let it exist unmolested by me as the bastion of blithering incompetence and dishonesty that it is, just as I am content to enjoy the fruits of other people's interest in it. I cannot do everything nor be all things to all people.

It's the opposite of the "concern troll"/"offence" mentality. Almost by definition a concern troll is not actually concerned with the substance of the issues merely the form, just as are those people who cry "I'm offended!" at anything that violates the inner sanctum of their unconsidered ideology. The nature and validity of the question posed or offensive action done is never dealt with, only the form of it, i.e. the fact that it could/does offend someone somewhere. It's almost always the very definition of form over substance.

Unfortunately these many loud, concerned/offended voices drown out the sensible discussion that could be had. Hence why I referred to Mr Hartmann's spittle flecked correspondence above as a "less coherent version of the framing debate". In, for example, dealing with creationists the ONLY genuinely controversial debate to be had is a tactical one, i.e. how do we deal with them. Advocates of one model or another generally agree that how one deals with creationists is situational. However the many loud concerned/offended voices always manage to distract from that consensus and whip what could be a productive discussion over tactics into a polarised war over trivial forms.

I'll bet, since I am also a mean, militant, evangelical, angry, nasty, loud, vicious, offensive atheist like PZ, that if PZ (or I) were confronted by some old lady, pious in her faith and in her hospital bed waiting for death, neither of us would burst into the room crying "FUCK YOU OLD LADY!!! YOUR GOD IS A FICTION!! YOU'RE GOING TO DIE!!". We might privately think it is better for her to face the inevitable more rationally, we might not (situational, see?) but neither of us would go in condemning her for her faith. However, if instead we are faced with a comparatively hale and healthy old lady on the street stuffing a bible in our faces or attempting to legislate her faith without challenge or justification, then perhaps, just perhaps, we'd be a little less tactful. Different situations demand different tactics. Gosh, isn't THAT a revelation? ;-)

This is part of why I find the Mr Hartmanns of the world so bemusing. PZ, whilst certainly outspoken, has never been in my experience gratuitously offensive. Offensive undoubtedly, but never gratuitously so. Crackergate was the closest possible thing I can imagine, simply due to the very public whining that occurred because of it. Even that was not done gratuitously, it was done polemically. There was an important, and valid message there, one that the screaming hordes of the "concerned"/"offended" missed without exception. Offence is a valid and vital tool in challenging ANY status quo, and the situational appropriateness of its use is a subject for reasoned debate. Concern trolling/offence whoring like that of Mr Hartmann distracts from that very debate.

More than that appeals to offence/concern are fundamentally desire to control other people. A desire to remain unchallenged, to hold onto ideas in the face of evidence. To maintain some status quo, whatever that might be. It is an intellectually dishonest attempt to sidetrack the debate away from issues of substance because at some level the appellant to offence/concern knows that they haven't a leg to stand on.

So in the spirit of Mr Hartmann's illogical (and ironically arrogant) question about what PZ knows that Mr Hartmann doesn't and needs to know, I'll ask a couple of him and his ilk (I do so love that word): If, when you are offended by something I have done, have you ever considered what you might have done to offend me? More importantly have you ever considered why you are offended? Perhaps you need to be offended.

Apologies for length.

Louis

This David Hartmann is one angry person.

He is angry at himself for being a failure apparently. He resents people who have an education and actually contribute to the world.

My guess is that his family has abandoned him and he is now alone with his failed life.

So many words and no point at all? I think this has all been a huge mistake. Mr. Hartmann probably intended to submit his work to Social Text.

Actually, he has grammar, and spelling, and a basic grasp of the English language which enables him to write something understandable if he wouldn't go overboard and make a wall of text that one doesn't WANT to read...

Anyway. *I'd* say that probably puts him in the top 2 percent of angry criticizers PZ hears from....

But seriously dude. Why did you have to write something *THAT LONG* to say you just don't want to read this blog? Simple solution there....

Dear PZ

int i = 0;
while (i < 1000)
{
cout<<"I am writing to you to tell you that I am writing to you to tell you that I write to you to tell you that I am writing you to tell you that ";
i++;
}
cout<<" you are egocentric";

Speak for yourself. I for one have a great respect for that beard.

It has powers.

I heard that there's no chin behind PZ's beard...

(/Just two more hands for blogging.)

Martha @113:

You guys are all of bunch of educated idiots.

Damn it, Martha! You should warn me first. Great! I have pieces of Irony Meter all over the room and now the fucking smoke detector is going off. Great! Just great! Thanks, dumbass.

I'll save my reading time for something more substantial, thanks... a couple paragraphs in convince me that this writer isn't playing with a full deck. No sense piling on.

IT'S A MIRACLE that this paranoid letter writer did not scare quote his entire missive (but then it would appear that he would be quoting himself, and I don't think that is possible as there is nobody at home). Hartman's ability to meddle must be downright 'overwhelming.'

lovely.. Murphy bit me in #149... "to" should have been "than"... rewriting the entire sentence would have been helpful.

"Did he just stop in mid-rant and break into a chorus of 'Brown-Eyed Girl?'"

No, i think it was "Piano Man", but it may have been "Life Goes On".

The whales. Please, someone, think of the whales. :)

All of you who managed to read through more than the first few sentences. You have my respect.
And, dear Mr Hartman, let me guess, you're some low-level bureaucrat, stuck in the same job for decades, composing government guidelines for the proper labeling of fish food containers. I understand. That would be frustrating, indeed.

Ooops...something got lost after "submit".

Anyway, PZ, I am writing you to tell you that I am writing you to tell you that I write you to tell you (ad nauseum)....that you are very egocentric.

I agree with David Hartman. And it's kind of amusing to see how prophetic his words are - you are all proving him right by heaping tons of criticism on him.

You guys are all of bunch of educated idiots.

I'll just assume you are an uneducated idiot.

Who has the better standing to call someone an idiot?

What do you know that I don't know? What do you know that I need to know?

Wow, is somebody feeling mighty insecure today?

Does somebody need attention? Or have blog envy? PZ, did you steal this man's girlfriend or something? ;-) He gets so frigging personal. Why does he think he needs to do something about somebody else's "arrogance?"

He seems very threatened by you, PZ. Well, he's also boring. This is the kind of guy who starts pestering me at the library or at the bus stop. (Believe me, cranks like this soon leave me alone having learned something that I thought they should know.)

@Nefari: Failure to signal is an Abomination! You will die heretic! Stone the heretic for not signalling!

@Martha: not prophetic: he asked, we obliged.

A good example of quantity vs quality. He must have spent a while composing that!

La-de-dah-de-dah-de-da...?!?!? Did Woody Allen write this? This guy would be a great character in a Woody Allen movie.

PZ, you need a new hobby. Saving up all these nasty emails and their accompanying negative vibes is liable to do all sorts of crazy stuff to your PC's hard drive.

Have you tried boxing?

well, that letter was...how do i put this nicely...um...long winded?

it also reminds me of some quotes:

"Never miss a good chance to shut up." ~Will Rogers

"If you keep your mouth shut you will never put your foot in it." ~Austin O'Malley

Psh, who cares about whales.

Especially when they find shit like this;
http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science/02/05/giant.snake.colombia/index.h…

:)

Sounds like the po' widdle guy needs a new box of crayons, a cookie, and a good long nap.

Martha> I'd greatly prefer to be an educated idiot rather to an uneducated ignoramus. You should try that next time you consider using the word educated as an insult. Anti-intellectualism may impress your bowling league friends, but it doesn't fly so well here.

That's Mrs. Hartmann to you, buster.

Wow. I got through half and could not make it any further.
That's a whole lot of words to say nothing relevant.

Personally, I thought the only thing missing was calling PZ a "poopy-head".

Brevity is the soul of wit.

Did the fellow actually arrive at a point in there somewhere? I lost interest before I found it.

Brilliant move, PZ. LMAO!

What is it that when people don't have a lot of points to make they just go on and on and on... this happens to me in person and in writings such as this.

Didn't another recent critic of PZ's blog use
a hoot in a similar way? What is this
hoot of which they speak?

I think Freud could have made a career with individuals like Mr. Hartmann. Oh wait, I think he did.
The irony of this post and many others of similar ilk, is the complete lack of introspection and self-assessment. The challenge to personal dogma is not met with intellectual dialogue but reflexive defensiveness which only serves to underscore the intellectual vacuity of the diatribe to begin with.

I lost interest and didn't finish. There's something to be said about brevity and he didn't say it.

"You undoubtedly believe that you are in some sense "saving the world" by condemning others, but what in God's name do you hope it will accomplish ?"

PZ - he seems to be confusing you with jebus. Why does he hate is god so much?

He could have said all that in about one sentence.

He's obviously got problems, but he does have a way with words, you gotta give him that. I'm not sure I'd necessarily accuse the rant of being spittle-flecked either. It seemed to me fairly well reasoned, if somewhat disjointed, and obviously ad hominem. PZ has definitely posted lots of good examples of spittle-flecked invective, but I don't think this one belongs in that category.

At risk of sounding like I'm being obstreperous just for the sake of it - I partially agree with Martha. But only to the extent that these emails generate a lot of 'I hate to sound harsh but.. all religious people are x' style responses which do get bloodthirsty at times. But if there is a place for blanket generalisations then it is on a post about silly religious people on a blog that spends a lot of time exposing silly religious people, populated by readers who think that religion is silly. Therefore I do not know what people expect.

Certainly it is the simplest thing in the world to figure out that a lot of people who comment here don't quite mean precisely what they claim applies to 'ALL THOSE CRAZY RELIGIOUS PPLZ HEEHEEHAHAWHA' but as far as I'm concerned that is preceisely the point - it is here, in this haven of like-minded people that we get to go a little bit overboard and gleefully mock that which isn't always as mockable in day to day life.

"He can compress the most words into the smallest ideas of any man I ever met." ---Abraham Lincoln

Ugh.
I stick to my view:
If you haven't got anything to say, please don't say it anyway.

That goes for Martha as well!

That's what I like; succinct emails.

"I don't object to your science, I object to your arrogance in the public forum"

So the whole email is a HUGE ad hominem fallacy. Great.

Insipid praise? I just thought he was a good advocate for my viewpoint. I'm pretty sure they don't have ivory towers at UMM, nor is anyone bowing down to Dr. Myers, the Godslayer. If it isn't important to you, don't look. I, like Dr. Einstein, believe it is part of the greatest experience we can have.

"I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." (Albert Einstein, 1954)

but my God, they knew when to shut up!

Unlike your good self...

La-de-dah-de-dah-de-da.

I think he's English, I'm ashamed to say. UK readers will immediately recognise the theme tune from the Archers.

Signal-to-noise ratio: 0

Somebody has to fix the unemployment issue. People have too much time on their hands.

As per Marcus Ranum's suggestion @ #40, here's the output of a 2nd order Markov generator (found here). For more amusing results, I think you'd need a larger corpus than just this one email.

Well sir,
I hesitate to believe that you may receive on your "blog" today---somewhat amazingly considering the typical time constraints on an associate professor---that you graciously acknowledged receiving "11 weird harangues . . in my estimation a failure as an educator, at least as far as one can judge from your so-called "blog" today. You might say: (imagine a real arrogant guy with a beard for a second saying this)
"You need to worry about? This is not an attempt to offend you, rather, it is me telling you what I think: I think that in much of any way, obviously quite the opposite is what I think: I think that if you don't know anything that I don't believe that your silence is some kind of observations. Perhaps we are strangers, but only in the public forum are regrettably there for all you know, I may have changed over time? That's just wonderful. Great. Do you really care a bling for any brand of truth, but unfortunately that seems to have made you especially vociferous, and miracle or miracles the internet allows you to have daily opportunity to belittle others in an offensive manner, oh yes . . . in my previous e-mail message yesterday. I notice in your "blog" go to your arrogance in the public eye. This is an example of the human race! La-de-dah-de-dah-de-da. I have never met you in person as a supposedly learned man in the public spotlight as possessing "special revelations" that we all need to worry and think about how scientists think whales used to reproduce in the public spotlight as possessing "special revelations" that we all need to know about as educated human beings. For those who daily "blog-in" to praise you for your own personal fulfillment. So be it. What I am addressing. You are a professor at a university, but that of itself engenders nothing special to me, and to many if not most scientists? Or, to many if not most scientists? Or, to many others who don't happen to be a self-perceived "cause," it becomes a nuisance for its own sake. I think that you can answer these questions at all. "Ahhh", you might say, (just to give a random example I picked up from your public presence. How is that you can is for you to fully vent.
Probably you protest that we all need to know that I have often to read about a certain person named "PZ Myers," often just in my estimation a failure as an educator, at least as far as one can judge from your so-called "blog" today. You might say: (imagine a real arrogant guy with a beard for a second saying this)
"You need to know that I need to know that I need to know. You think you know that I need to know?
I don't care, I will not remain silent when I am doing, in fact, is condemning you, as best I can do.

I found his style quite compelling - like a semi-educated pub bore. I vote for him not being from the UK though. His name's pretty rare over here, and he uses American academic terminology (an associate professor is known here as a lecturer or even senior lecturer and actual professors are scarce). Is this what your talk radio is like?
Toodle-pip old beans!
Plashing Vole

By Thor's Nipples! Does this guy really have nothing better to do than scream into the ether like this?

I'm sure he thinks he's seriously wounded Professor Myer's pride. All he's actually done is contribute to his impending Carpel Tunnel/Coronary attack.

Shorter David Hartmann:

"I suffer from severe mental illness, and have a lot of free time on my hands. I also apparently hate you, for some reason I'm not entirely clear on."

You must be a good speed reader. I couldn't get through it all.

Yeah...and this kind of stuff kills me, too:

I agree with David Hartman. And it's kind of amusing to see how prophetic his words are...blah, blah... You guys are all of bunch of educated idiots.

Okay, Martha, let's assume you're right. My response can only be...SO? And? ;-)

I mean, are you in charge of the Pharyngulites? Or did visiting here and giving your diagnosis make you feel better about yourself? What problems in your life are you escaping by pronouncing as "idiots" people who obviously take up a lot of your time? Do you think you can solve your problems by trying to solve what you think are mine?

I have never been able to figure this out: why someone who spends so much time insulting another gives the object of their contempt so much attention and power. (I still get comments like this on my "Ken Ham's Museum Opens to Shut Minds" post.) It's really a compliment.

A man is likely to mind his own business when it is worth minding. When it is not, he takes his mind off his own meaningless affairs by minding other people's business.
- Eric Hoffer

After PZ writes his first book on evo-devo. His second book can be collected e-mail rants, from bat-shit crazy to the death threats, he has received from the religious community.

Is this what your talk radio is like?

No, Mr. Hartmann is far too erudite for talk radio.

Notice that many (all!) godbots need to look up the two terms 'hate' and 'ridicule'. They'll find they are two very different concepts, and should not be confused.

Posted by: Sastra | February 5, 2009

No, the whales are just a cover. Like all Super Scientists, PZ is working in his secret lab, developing a Death Ray.

Soon, the whole world will be his.

BWAHAHAHAHA

He has no friends
But he gets a lot of mail
I'll bet he spent a little
Time in jail...
I heard he was up on the
Roof last night
Signaling with a flashlight
And what's that tune he's
Always whistling...
What's he building in there?
What's he building in there?

We have a right to know...

this guy sux..

/snooze

That, was the dullest thing ever. I tried to read it, but failed as the writer utterly failed to make ANY point. The message is not stupid, it is just completely useless.
That David totally sucks.

SIWOTI by people who are TSTKTS.

(SIWOTITSTKTS - sih wat ee tisk ets, perhaps?)

#203: Thanks for Makov-izing the Hartmann email.

It almost makes more sense now!

He has no friends / But he gets a lot of mail...

On the basis that she also quotes Waits, I'd like to vote twice for Janine for Molly this month. Can I do that?

"I have known and admired some wonderful iconoclasts who had some genuine insights worth considering, but my God, they knew when to shut up!"

But my god, he sure didn't learn anything, did he?

As a fellow maniac, I love the creative new titles he bestows on PZ:

• Negative Karma Engine
• Lord over All Creationists
• Communion-Wafer Maniac
• Atheist Blogmeister
• Small-town Scientist
• Condemner of Inferior People
• Defender of Truth
• Defacto Defender of the Scientific Cause
• A Positive Boon for Thinking People Everywhere

Umilik: "And, dear Mr Hartman, let me guess, you're some low-level bureaucrat, stuck in the same job for decades, composing government guidelines for the proper labeling of fish food containers. I understand. That would be frustrating, indeed."

I beg to differ. I suspect Mr. Hartman would find such a job fulfilling. Not only is he obviously not disturbed by interminable repetition, but his comment on the discovery of maiacetus being uninteresting suggests that he find *nothing interesting. I am not interested in all things, but because I *am intrigued or fascinated by many subjects, I understand why other people can find those others to be so.

Re: "What do you know that I don't know? What do you know that I need to know?"

Uncle Rummy's advice comes to mind:

As you know, there are known knowns; there are things you know you need to know. You also know there are known unknowns; that is to say, you know there are some things you do not know you need to know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones you don't know you don't know, that you need to know.

PZ,

How dare you enter this man's "world" with your "public presence" along with all your "facts" and "truth"? Pfft, and you call yourself Lord over ALL "creationists."

Bad professor! No danish!

...ok, maybe just a nibble...

Broken plastic
Littered on the desk
Fragments of letters visible

A thin wisp of smoke rises from the shell of what used to be a keyboard

The man sitting in the chair is breathing hard
And is purple

Seems to me that Mr. Hartmann is mainly upset that PZ does not respect people who believe in God. (Though I'm not sure where the whales fit in.) On the other hand, Mr. Hartmann shows precious little respect for atheists. Let him who is without sin throw the first stone, Mr. Hartmann.

And really, you do not have to read this blog. You're well ahead of many who write crank e-mails in your technical command of composition (though you might work on making your point more clearly), and your acknowledgement of the obvious change in species over time (that is, evolution by natural selection). So do yourself a favor and don't read this blog if it bothers you. So long.

Wow, I zoned out after a couple paragraphs. Does he ever have with a point?

#What do you know that I don't know?#

How to write a decent email, quick and to the point.

For writing with so little content, there sure is a LOT of it.

I meant to ask if he has a point. Just for the record. Sigh...

Reading Mr. Hartmann's voluminous blathering put me in mind of the little kid digging through a pile of horse shit looking for a pony.

Read the FIRST line........read the LAST line. Everything in between........I've read a thousand times in other rants.

I've got better things to do w/ my time other then read his pyscho musings (And, you know what's coming here......got lots of dog poop in the yard that needs to be picked up....stuff like that).

Bloody hell. And here I thought *I* was a compulsive over-writer.

Although I thought the insistent use of quotes around "blog" was weirdly cute.

Does he ever have with a point?

Yes , that Mr. Hartmann is a nice humanist and he's talked to all the scientists in the world and every one of them told him they think PZ is stinky. Oh, and he shouldn't write about whales having legs.

I'm sure that this individual is not familiar with higher education. Honestly, you NEED a little (or a lot really) arrogance to get your PhD. So the arrogant thing could be said about most professors if you argue with them on the right topic.

@AwesomeJack16 - PZ may have some disrespect for the "common man" creationist but the leaders that you feel rightly deserve that disrespect would not be in the position of power that they are in without those individuals. They are the base that makes these issues possible. PZ can spend all day knocking down the top of the tower but it's the foundation that needs to be removed for the problem to cease.

@Martha Better to be an over-educated moron than a gullible mouth-breather.

Wow.... I wonder how long it took him to write all that crap. Just imagine how much more useful to himself it would have been had he invested that time in EDUCATING himself instead of wailing and gnashing his teeth in frustration against PZ Myers.

I truly feel sad for this guy. He must be scared to death of everything around him - including his own shadow. That level of fear is unhealthy!! And it also explains his dependence upon an authoritarian daddy-figure in the sky and a literal interpretation of scripture.

I think that proper medication and a good deprogrammer would really help. I can only hope that someone in his life loves him enough to seek out that help for him.

Okay I read through most of it before I baked a cake where my brain used to be. Apparently the whole concept of a 'BLOG' is lost on this guy. btw I liked this part:

when this person often does ridiculous bizarre things

I misread that as "when this person often does ridicule bizarre things," My brain was trying to make sense of his ramblings I guess.

Later on in his dribble it was like I was in a middle of a large endless field. There were no crops growing, just masses of strawmen scare-crows.

I guess misery loves company, but PZ continue to post this sort of junk? It is certainly not interesting to read - there is absolutely nothing learned, no interesting arguments, just junk. It is certainly not worth a comment.

Now that said, we could add some interest. How about PZ posts, in some out of the way place, his top ten list of bat-^&%$ crazy emails for the month. Then, each month we have a poll to decide which is: (insert a theme here), e.g. crankiest, most deluded, most coherent (just for kicks), etc. We come up with 12 themes for each month of the year.

.... when given lemons make lemonade...

This is not an attempt to offend you, rather, it is me telling you what I think about you since you have chosen to enter my world with your public presence. How is that you say? When, as of late, I have often to read about a certain person named "PZ Myers," often just in my ordinary non-specific reading, and when this person often does ridiculous bizarre things, apparently to gain attention to himself in furtherance of what appears to be a self-perceived "cause," it becomes a nuisance to me, and to many others who don't take the time to write you.

now replace 'pz myers' with 'jebus' or 'god'.

Louis @ #92:

Why praise the guy's spelling and grammar? He's one step above totally frothing moron because he wrote the email in Word and used the spell/grammar check function? Come on people, if you can't practically SEE the underpants on this guy's head you've missed out somewhere! Reasonable written English is a very low bar to set given modern technology.

Yes, reasonable written English is a very low bar to set. But it's a bar that plenty of these idiots find utterly beyond their ability. The fact that this nutcase can manage to even use a grammar checking feature is an amazing feat, given the total batshit insanity of what he's saying here. Such a madman would normally be expected to need help tying his own shoes while fighting off the evil conspiracy of invisible radioactive squirrels trying to eat his testicles.

I also find it funny how many thousands of words this whackjob feels are needed to tell PZ that he needs to learn when to shut up. :P

Why do all these silly folks seem to think that anyone advocating for science is obligated to behave like Generic-Science-Guy, never doing or saying anything that might not reflect the beliefs and behaviors of the entire science community? How dare PZ say good things about athiests?! Science cannot be equated with atheism! How dare he express the opinion that crackers are not made of Jesus flesh?! It's like he's under the impression that he is entitled to his own views and opinions! Outrageous! Shame on you sir.

I found it pretty funny. And could it be a poe?

Actually, the letter is a fairly good characterization of PZ and it sets up a reasonable justification for critique in terms of his public persona.

Of course, PZ's disciples (ass-kissing sycophants)promptly took the bait and came out in immediate defense of the pied piper, probably in the hope of gaining some sort of "messianic" blessing.

... whether you butcher up my comments in your silly "blog" or not.

How can you, or anyone, butcher up comments which have no meat in them?

I look at these things and just think of how much effort and "intelligence" they think they're putting into them, I multiply by various large numbers, and then I know why thought and sense have such a tough time in this society.

Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/6mb592

Actually, the letter is a fairly good characterization of PZ and it sets up a reasonable justification for critique in terms of his public persona.

Of course, PZ's disciples (ass-kissing sycophants)promptly took the bait and came out in immediate defense of the pied piper, probably in the hope of gaining some sort of "messianic" blessing.

Silver Fox, you never answered my question in the saddlebacking thread.

Do you prefer to be facing your partner during anal sex or are you more of doggie style type?

Well.... I'd like to adress this with a well known sentence from the brilliant Karl Popper:

"Wer´s nicht einfach und klar sagen kann, der soll schweigen und weiterarbeiten, bis er´s klar sagen kann."

Meaning: "Who's not able to state his case simple and clearly, should shut up and keep working, until he can."

Following this sage advice should prevent this kind of verbal diarrhea.

What is this "blog," of which you speak?

I condensed this for anyone who got bored after the first line.

Shorter Nice Guy(TM)Hartmann:

I hesitate to believe that your silence is some kind of assent to the truth of what I tried to express in my previous e-mail message yesterday. I notice in your "blog" today---somewhat amazingly considering the typical time constraints on an associate professor---that you graciously acknowledged receiving "11 weird harangues . . . in my mailbox this morning." You're moving with your auntie and your uncle in Bel-Air." I whistled for a cab and when it came near the license plate said "Fresh" and there were dice in the mirror. If anything I could say that this cab was rare but I thought, naw, forget it, yo holmes to Bel-Air. I pulled up to the house about seven or eight and said to the cabbie "Yo holmes smell ya later." Looked at my kingdom, I was finally there, to sit on my throne as the prince of Bel-Air.

I never loved you,

David

You're welcome, Pharyngulites. Carry on.

davem @ 200, thanks for giving me a good laugh!

I'm another Brit, and I think this man is either an American affecting being British or an ex-pat who has moved to the US some time ago. There's something slightly off in his phrasing...although that could just be the same thing that is causing him to write massive essays full of nothing to strangers he doesn't like on the Internet.

I'm reminded of a quote by comedian Ron White:

"Let me tell YOU something about YOU that YOU don't know."

Actually, I'm reminded of a different Ron White quote:

"You can't fix stupid."

That letter read like a 2-page run-on sentence. I would get more out of reading the instructions for making sticky rice. With all that bottled up nonsense, the dude should get a blog.

I can guarantee this dude thinks that atheists planted the transitional fossil evidence in our attempt to convert more people into our atheist religion.

I don't post here often, but this was the funniest thing I've read in a long, long while. Thanks for sharing. :)

The Bronze Wombat (241) scores a clean miss. It is (just) possible that David Hartmann was a Poe. But it's all Mullerian mimicry- all equally distasteful. Also, how does agreeing with another's world view make one a sycophant? Hartmann is: deluded, under educated, mis-informed, has tremendous self loathing and jealousy, or is a Poe.

YOU, Bronze Wombat, are simply a fool!

Vole @ 204, compared to talk radio this guy is gold. Talk radio is the same 2000 words of non-content, just without proper grammar, proper spelling (yes, you can here the mental typos) and without any structure whatsoever.

Christ on a Bike! SRSLY TL;DR >>

Man, I tried really hard to understand what he was attempting to say but I had to give up after couple of paragraphs. That fella meanders like I've never seen a man meander before. He has a point though, how dare you force him to read your blog every day? You're just plain rude...

I absolutely loved what you did with the first one, red-lettering the idiot like it was an episode of MST3K. At first glance I was all... awwww, why didn't he do it to this one? Then I kept reading and reading and... does this guy know brevity is the soul of wit? Then I realized, there is no wit to him. Then I started on the second paragraph.

Yeah, reading this idiot is a waste of time, and my brain just flashed TILT. PZ, you do put up with some silly ones... but let me tell ya, I've been reading you for about three weeks now, and you hold your own very well. I can't finish his letter because I've just become allergic to bullshit.

I think my IQ just dropped 15 points reading that crap. Must learn to look away.

So what, he was offended that you decided to advertise another nut over him? This is why you shouldn't have posted that email yesterday; if you feed the trolls, they just start taking you for granted :p

With all of his supposed "degrees" the best he can muster is "You are a negative karma engine."

Seriously? If you going to just make crap up, let a better proverbial turd fall from your mouth than that.

:)

Posted by: Silver Fox | February 5, 2009

Actually, the letter is a fairly good characterization of PZ and it sets up a reasonable justification for critique in terms of his public persona.

Of course, PZ's disciples (ass-kissing sycophants)promptly took the bait and came out in immediate defense of the pied piper, probably in the hope of gaining some sort of "messianic" blessing.

And yet you keep coming here. Are you some kind of masochist?

And not that this comes as any surprise but you insist on describing the interactions here in religious terms. Shows off your mental shortcomings quite well.

But what the fuck, you think that the tedious screed had something of significance to say. Just be good to yourself, go to VD's blog and stay there.

No offense PZ, but only once in my "ordinary non-specific reading" have I come across your name.
That being said, in my almost daily specific reading,I come across your name, well... almost daily.

tl;dr

With all of his supposed "degrees" the best he can muster is "You are a negative karma engine."

Seriously? If you going to just make crap up, let a better proverbial turd fall from your mouth than that.

:)

Wow, you really struck a nerve there huh PZ? Hey, guy that wrote this? Edit it down a little next time. I think your message wasn't strong enough to stand out in all that explanation as to why you feel it's your duty to say it. It's hard to be an effective writer if you come off every other sentence defensive as to why you need to say what you are saying. Just say it...with pride. Stand up for yourself if you have something to say and muster some authority or else people will always only laugh at you. Like I'm doing. Right now.

I think that it's is hilarious ever since "Crackergate" we've been seeing these uber-Christians calling PZ a "non-published professor from a small-town-college in the middle of the midwest".

Meanwhile, less than a calendar year ago, after "Expelled" came out, a certain "Framer" (who I will not mention by name) called PZ "Big Science" who needs to shut up for a while and let others do the talking.

Which one is it, Christians?

LOL. He sounds like a 13 year old girl.

The content of this letter is so vacuously missing a point that I believe it has collapsed into massive black hole of thought. Unfortunately, a massive accretion disk of words has formed around the complete this lack ot thought, and the friction of so many run-on sentences and poorly expressed ideas are creating enourmous Gamma Ray Bursts of stupidity.

I have to be honest, his rambling prose put me to sleep long before i got to any of his (undoubted) Earth-shattering revelations. Oh the pain...

"LOL. He sounds like a 13 year old girl."

defending 'Twilight'. ;)

Bloody hell, that should be "formed around this complete lack of thought"

This once again reminds me why I always sound funnier in my head.

jeebus H Christus... up a stick with a sickly grin on his face!

WTF was that?
I bet he speaks like that...in a dead flat monotone without breath spaces...strangely compelling...totally brain dead..a true clone exhibiting hive behaviour.

Janine wins for Tom Waits reference....

"I get email"; we know what comes next
In this case, an immense wall of text--
So there's no other choice
But the standard "kook voice"--
Comic sans, pathologically vexed

We know briefness contributes to wit
And this fellow, he wanders... a bit.
And although there is levity
In sheer lack of brevity,
More words: greater chance that it's shit.

If only I knew how to embed images.

PZ, You get email ... And quote from this guy at length to make him look silly - OK he does come across that way but it's kind of a waste of everyone's time IMHO. Do you check your email carefully? Whatever happened to that cute video link of the "singing green religious alien puppet" I sent you on 2/1? I think your fans would find it hilarious and using it has nothing to do with me per se. Well then I'll just try again on my own:

Check this thread in alt.fan.rawilson (based on strange writer Robert Anton Wilson, whom I admire and which offers a hint to take:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.rawilson/browse_frm/thread/8a0ba…

Which links to http://www.fiveshock.com/ran/scary.html.

Wait a few minutes to hear about space angels and life on other planets etc. Later, quotes from the Book of Enoch, pics of UFOs and such. Yet other links bring up insistence this is not a Poe. (BTW might as well work in EAP's 200th birthday, not just Lincoln and Darwin!)

I've been reading you for about three weeks now, and you hold your own very well. I can't finish his letter because I've just become allergic to bullshit.

Stay out of the archives then, you're risking anaphylactic shock!

PZ, You get email ... And quote from this guy at length to make him look silly - OK he does come across that way but it's kind of a waste of everyone's time IMHO.

Is someone holding a gun to your head Neil?

This is so hilarious! I really shouldn't read your blog during work, because the constant laughter might tip off my boss. Anyway, someone needs to inform this guy that both the Methodist and Catholic churches, among other, have accepted evolution and don't believe it contradicts their faith.

"La-de-dah-de-dah-de-da."

Well, that sure put you in YOUR place! Ha! So take that!

Seriously, my hat is off to you, PZ, simply for having to deal with the influx of crackpot emails. I am often irritated by the unsolicited vendor email ads I get, and I am sure they would be just a teensy fraction of your inbox. There are some craaaazy people out there.

This guy goes on so much about how he doesn't like you that if we were in 8th grade, I would assume he had a huge crush on you. It's clearly obvious that he cares immensely about what you think of him, and he's mad that you don't care what he thinks of you.

Of course, PZ's disciples (ass-kissing sycophants)promptly took the bait and came out in immediate defense of the pied piper, probably in the hope of gaining some sort of "messianic" blessing.

I smell gay worship fantasies Foxy.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I have to admit that the Unibomber Manifesto immediately came to mind, another example of a well written, but nonsensical stream of consciousness

I suspect that Mr. Hartman is, today, ecstatic with the result of his rant. First, it was published by his nemesis, then it was commented upon extensively (273 and counting). I suppose that I should feel guilty for thus enabling his obsession, but then, I consider that we have probably saved a good number of people from listening to him talk to himself in a public place, and I am consoled.

T

PZ, one of your clever programmer fans needs to write you an email spam filter for all those nutbags, leaving only the most hilarious and unhinged screeds for our collective delectation. Sure, the disjointed ranting was fun, but the fact that David Hartmann thinks your blog is an "internet newspaper" nearly made me shoot tea thru my nose in hysterics.

That email was made of 100% loony win.

Big chimp:
Janine:

Thank you for confirming at least part of my post - the part about ass-kissing sycophants.

I'd feel left out too if I worked so hard typing up a ten page dissertation on how the elitist professor is a big fat doo-doo head.

that was one of the "funnier" "posts" on your "blog" i've read in a while.

PZ, You get email ... And quote from this guy at length to make him look silly - OK he does come across that way but it's kind of a waste of everyone's time IMHO. Do you check your email carefully? Whatever happened to that cute video link of the "singing green religious alien puppet" I sent you on 2/1?

One of the signature characteristics of the kooks who write to me is that they get very irate if I mention some other kook than themselves (see examples above). After all, every kook's obsession is the most important piece of lunacy in the world to them.I'm sure that if I published the singing green religious alien puppet of Neil B, the woman who sent me the astrological proof that I was satan would be complaining next.I hate to break the sad news to you, but just because you're crazy doesn't make you special and unique. My mailbox is testimony to the banality of dementia. Sorry.

PZ isn't the messiah? The beard must of thrown me off. I would like to know this guy's definition of the word "blog". Last time I checked it was a place where a person can write about their thoughts or what interest them or just whatever they feel like. I also thought people could choose to read a blog or not. You better watch out PZ this guy is probably like that Bjork stalker. He thinks that you are actually writing this blog about him or to annoy him. You better be careful opening your mail.

Go ahead, dismiss me all you want, laugh at me, lump me in with all the other people you marginalize and stereotype.

Ok.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! *points* Fruitcake!

Feel better now Davey?

Wow. PZ, you have a real knack of attracting the nutters.

Hey, you guys are missing something here.

This is from one of those software thingies that let's you input a topic and then spews out endless meaningless strings of words.

I'm surprised none of you noticed.

Stupid old goat, that was not about defending PZ. That was about verbally lashing out against a willfully obtuse git. There is a huge difference. You are ignoring that for both Chimpy and for me, you are such a great punching bag.

Hey, you guys are missing something here.

This is from one of those software thingies that let's you input a topic and then spews out endless meaningless strings of words.

I'm surprised none of you noticed.

I don't "give a fig" or "care a bling" what all you jerks say. I think Dr. Myers and his so-called "blog" are totally "peaches and cream."

I hate to break the sad news to you, but just because you're crazy doesn't make you special and unique. My mailbox is testimony to the banality of dementia. Sorry.

But... but... I cut out all those letters from the newspaper and everything! It took hours!

(Pouts/Stamps foot...)

You're mean. I'm going to go find someone else to stalk.

tl;dr

Drivel dribble.

Whoah!!!!

PZ, did you actually READ that whole thing or did you just skim through it????

I started to glaze over over the end of the 1st or 2nd paragraph (not sure really, it all started to blur together...)

I find it odd how this fellow somehow ends up making your blog more about him then about you....very strange indeed...

Kermit:

"but his comment on the discovery of maiacetus being uninteresting"

Mr. Hartmann's posting mentioned nothing about maiacetus. He did reference whales.

Thank you Kermit for letting us know that as one of the "brites" you would never stoop to calling a cetus a mere "whale". Obviously, you are a person of extraordinary knowledge and now we have all been made aware of that.

A deep and heartfelt thanks to those of you who managed to make it through the entire rant and remain conscious long enough to summarize it for me. I did not have the strength you obviously possess.

Cuttlefish..I think I love you...

Mr. Hartmann,

I somehow doubt that you continue to read clear down here at number 270+, but I sincerely hope that you are.

I did read through your entire email, as posted. I don't disagree with what you are saying, as I find some atheist and skeptic sites a bit...exclusive in their thinking and writing. However, I hope that you took the same time and effort to send such a letter to sites like Answers in Genesis and others that reflect the same thought processes.

While science and scientists have tended in the past to be less vocal, now that the religulous right is attempting to pass off creationism and other ideas as science, it falls upon the scientific community to vociferously oppose such nonsense. Keep in mind, sites such as this were not created in a vacuum, more of a reaction to religious sites that condone non-scientific, and often non-constitutional changes to educational and other government systems.

PZ, please spare us, this letter takes 1/3 of your page !

I fell asleep halfway through and woke up at the end. I can't tell you how relieved I was, though, to find out that your blog is NOT required reading! Here I was, day after day, week after week, slaving away to read each and every post on Pharyngula because I thought I NEEDED to. Had I known it was optional all along I would have taken up knitting, or read the Bible. Okay, that's a lie, knitting's boring and last time I tried to read the Bible I fell asleep sooner than I did reading this fine man's repetitive tirade. But still, this is quite a relief to know I have the freedom to NOT read your blog. Now back to that fascinating article about whales giving birth on land. I'll feel much better reading it now that I'm choosing to do so.

Is this some slightly sophisticated spam generating machine, or a totally incoherent rant from a genuine human being? I cannot be sure..... I cannot believe anyone could sit down and write a thing like that, but then again there are a lot of people in America.

Janine, you ignorant slut...

You are ignoring that for both Chimpy and for me, you are such a great punching bag.

Don't hog the douchebag! Leave some scraps for the rest of us!

Incuriosity is the underpinning of America's downfall. That's something I know that this clown needs to know.

Posted by: Silver Fox | February 5, 2009 12:07 PM [kill][hide comment]

Kermit:

"but his comment on the discovery of maiacetus being uninteresting"

Mr. Hartmann's posting mentioned nothing about maiacetus. He did reference whales.

Thank you Kermit for letting us know that as one of the "brites" you would never stoop to calling a cetus a mere "whale". Obviously, you are a person of extraordinary knowledge and now we have all been made aware of that.

The stupid old goat is upset that a commentator used the proper name for the walking whale. You are a sad piece of work. Go to VD's blog and stay there.

Shorter David Hartman: I disagree with the writing of Professor Myers.

What a long, boring - and remarkably content free - screed that was; and I only read the first paragraph!!
I think that Mr Hartmann must have a lot of free time on his hands, I'm sure he could put it to much better use.

@68 Opisthokont

I must admit, this fellow is remarkably lucid. Neither spelling nor grammar appear to provide a challenge, and given what PZ has posted from his detractors before, that alone is quite impressive. But on top of that, he actually seems to have a train of thought, and to represent it coherently!em>
.

It looks like a train wreck of thought to me. Doesn't coherency and lucidity imply logical structure as well? Sheesh! I'd need a dictionary of logical fallacies to just to cover their depth and breadth.

This ones for you Dave:

If you've been reading this blog long enough to remember the "Communion-Wafer Maniac" then you've been reading for a long time. Apparently, you haven't been able to connect the dots. You imply that PZ thinks people "need to know that whales had babies on land at one time, and what a profound revelation that is!" and that this is his reason for not believing in god. But this isn't PZ's proof against god, it's a proof against creationism.

I'm sure the PZ has many excellent reasons for not believing in god--with logic probably being one of the predominant ones.

PS. Dave--don't you love the way that PZ saved some of his valueable "sciency" time by outsourcing his criticism to us!

Big Dumb:

"Silver Fox, you never answered my question in the saddlebacking thread. Do you prefer to be facing your partner during anal sex or are you more of doggie style type?"

You are a vulgar individual with no self-respect. There is no point in me formally confirming your opinion of yourself which is by all accounts accurate and well deserved.

...to sit in on one of your classes. Who cares what the "truth" might be if it comes from some arrogant, prattle-mouth such as yourself. God forbid that one of your students may not think as you do!

Yes, I heard from one of your students who didn't think the way you did (apparently your student was more of a right brain thinker). He said you smacked him in the head with a Basset Hound and then shot off his left testicle with your laser pointer.

Hey David:

I think I get what you're on about, but I was wondering

COULD YOU ELABORATE?

Stu, don't hold back. You are free to pile on. One of the pleasures here is seeing the silly old goat knocked around.

Dear David Hartmann,

Please give me back the minutes of my life I wasted reading your substance-free rant.

Cursing that I'm belong to the same species as you,
Feynmaniac

TEE ELL SEMICOLON DEE ARR

I got through one sentence and stopped. I hate nutbars. My mind filters them out.

I kind of wish they made an add-on for Firefox like AdBlock or NoScript, that blocked me from having to see the rantings of crazy fuckwads.

Think about these two statements for a nanosecond:

What do you know that I don't know? What do you know that I need to know?

For a start, you need to know that those aren't statements.

If there's one take-home message from this email, it's this:

"just another human being"

That's it, David H. That's the message. All of this stuff about evolution-all of this science stuff is surely neat, but that's the real sentiment behind this let go of your god(s) business we atheists are on about.

I know the politicised and emotionally charged nature of the religion vs. religion, religion vs. science, and religion vs. non-religion easily lends itself to Othering--and boy, am I guilty of that sometimes--but most of us here don't actually want that, and are looking to end this pettiness. The problem is that science isn't going to go away, and it's going to continue to reveal facts about the universe that don't fit with millennia-old myths. And every time some crankpot takes issue with this and demands that we answer some nit-picking point about what we already know to so likely as to be as near as true as a theory can get just because he doesn't like it, then that sets us back, just as Steve Broten's daughter will be set back if she acquiesces to her father's demand that she only learn what he wants her to know. Does Steve's respect for his daughter's intellect and self-determination demonstrate that he shares the concept that she's also just another human being, or instead that he thinks she's just a smidgen lower and further from his God?

We're all just human beings, no more and no less, and the sooner we collectively realise it and stop reaching for some messiah to save us from ourselves, we can get on with the business of living and maybe make a better world for ourselves and each other along the way.

Maybe that's not earth-shattering to you, but to many of the religious out there, including Steve Broten it's obviously complete heresy.

At any rate, thanks for the reminder.

From just another human being.

You are a vulgar individual with no self-respect.

Ah, sweet projection, thy name is Silver Fox.

I can handle creationists screed. What I can't handle are people who don't know how to use paragraphs. Seriously... is it really that hard?

You are a vulgar individual with no self-respect. There is no point in me formally confirming your opinion of yourself which is by all accounts accurate and well deserved.

And you Sir or Madam are a terrible bore who makes a point of displaying this daily by asking idiotic questions in unrelated threads that you could easily answer yourself. Beyond that you have an opinion about yourself that you engage in above the board courteous conversation when it is clearly demonstrateable that you do not. Hence my question.

Continuing, you have an incredible ability to not be able to see through the thin layers surrounding the bullshit you post as authorities on subjects which they clearly are not. Your constant use of Vox Day is prima facie evidence of that.

You are the ultimate example of the dunning-kruger effect in action except I doubt seriously that any further education on the subjects you spout off about would be able to make it through that faith hardened skull of yours.

Kindly sir, go fuck your delusional indignant self righteous self.

Was that vulgar enough?

idiot

Ah, sweet projection, thy name is Silver Fox.

Well, just sayin', technically, banal != vulgar...

(Unless we're getting all philsophical on the vulgarity of banality. In which case I guess I'm right there with you.)

Posted by: Silver Fox | February 5, 2009

Big Dumb:

You are a vulgar individual with no self-respect. There is no point in me formally confirming your opinion of yourself which is by all accounts accurate and well deserved.

I would have to disagree with that.(Surprising, isn't it?) Chimpy happens to have good taste in music. Nothing vulgar about that.

This cannot be for real. This guy must be spoofing. If not, the writer seems to believe that he is the center of the universe.

Keep it up! We're almost at the magic 500-ton mark at which point David Hartmann will indubitably chime in to tell us to "Chut-up!"

You are a vulgar individual with no self-respect.

Ah, the theist's response to any discussion of sex other than platitudes relating to love or procreation.

A whole lot of people would still be alive or would've lived a lot longer if theists had similar attitudes towards violence.

"I'm sure that if I published the singing green religious alien puppet of Neil B, the woman who sent me the astrological proof that I was satan would be complaining next."

Oh man, those sound like fun.
You should set up a script so that you can flag emails as "crank," and they're automagically posted to a crank page, then we can all ignore them or use them for entertainment as we see fit. You could singlehandedly capture the whole market from FSTDT and put them out of business.

Rev. BigDumbChimp @244 - Ewwww!

You are the ultimate example of the dunning-kruger effect in action

Rev, I'm not so sure about that. Check out the live one on the "Here's one face of evil" thread.

Rev. BigDumbChimp @244 - Ewwww!

Yes I apologize for the mental picture, but it had a purpose.

"You are a vulgar individual with no self-respect. There is no point in me formally confirming your opinion of yourself which is by all accounts accurate and well deserved."

Translation: he likes it both ways, Rev.

Silver Fox?

Didn't Sabretooth kill her just to make Wolverine cry? Or did that plotline get retconned into oblivion. I can't keep up any more.

Either way, I think in all of them, she's quite dead, and as such should stop zombie commenting.

I did read the whole f'n letter-email in case there was something I needed to know. Nothing there that was not in the first paragraph oh well.
I could not read all the posts in this thread though maybe later.
I would say it is odd that someone who says that they do not care much about whale history for example would read a blog by a biologist which includes such information. ??

I do like the "sciencey" posts though my technical knowledge is not so deep.
I do love knowing about the natural world and learning more is exciting. No such thing as too much!

I'm embarrassed for the rest of us Hartmanns. Please, guy, go away.

Actually, the letter is a fairly good characterization of PZ and it sets up a reasonable justification for critique in terms of his public persona.

Uh, what? You found some meaning here, really?

Please enlighten me; I must have missed it. No more than 100 words, though, ok?

Didn't Sabretooth kill her just to make Wolverine cry? Or did that plotline get retconned into oblivion. I can't keep up any more.

Was she part of Alpha Flight?

"...but my God, they knew when to shut up! "

*Cut and paste rant to Word.
Ctrl A, select word count.*
1,980 words.
Hypocrite.

I'm with Spiro Kete here: machine-generated satire. (Didn't say entertaining satire.)

OK, that's my high moment of faith in the human species for this week.

Maybe PZ should post all of his harangues and let us award the best (which probably would be the worst) with a newly minted award.

And today's winner of the LEMON HARANGUE AWARD is: David Hartman

Yes, I was having my first cup of coffee Chimpy. Now it's all over my keyboard.

The same old trolls driveling away everyday does have one good side effect, I'm getting more knitting done.

Protip: Professors have a lower-than-average threshold for tl;dr. This was too long even for a student... and we're used to reading reams of crap we can't make sense of =P

I think I lasted until paragraph 2. I tried, I really have...

Ciaran @ #150
That was laugh out loud funny. Wonderful.

First, I love reading other people's hate mail. I sometimes wonder if it's a character fault. Thanks for that PZ.

Second, does anybody have any insight into why people think that you are being arrogant when you just lay out why they are wrong and don't sugar-coat it?

Silver Fox: "Of course, PZ's disciples (ass-kissing sycophants)promptly took the bait and came out in immediate defense of the pied piper, probably in the hope of gaining some sort of "messianic" blessing."

Nah.....it's just kind of fun to make fun of religious (or otherwise) loonies. And this is a great place to do it. Hopefully in future it won't be so necessary. Oh..and "messiahs" and "blessings" are your trip and indicative of only your mindset.

They used to have a special kind of Internet for these kind of people. It was called AOL.

I wonder if Kirk Cameron gets letters like this from atheists?

I wish I had so much time to waste (all my spare time is wasted on reading PZ's "blog").

If he's going to copy religious mumbo-jumbo from other religions, he could at least get it right. ALL karma is negative. Duh! I'm an atheist and even I knew that.

Wow. I'm not an atheist, and I couldn't get through that. I come here for the science, but like Dave I don't care abut PZ's opinions. If he doesn't believe me I can take some vacation time, buy a plane ticket, and rent a car to get to him, so I can tell him I don't care. Um, Yeah.... So just let me know, OK? I'll be waiting.....

They used to have a special kind of Internet for these kind of people. It was called AOL.

They still do -- only now, it's called YouTube comments.

The guy even uses the line that says all about his faulty logic and knowledge...: "how scientists think whales used to reproduce in the past"
Scientists see a phenomena, study/document it, experiment/theory, publish, discuss, review. And if its real, you can verify it and reproduce the experiment or even see it and study again, and verify if its true or false. So it's more like "how scientists document EVIDENCE about whales".

The critical mass of critical thinkers must be at those guy's door. Its his fear manifest. And surely one day he will get some huge ICH and see how dumb he is (i hope).

PZ, hold the fort, i am with you.

Mr Hartmann, you wrote:

I hesitate to believe that your silence is some kind of assent to the truth of what I tried to express in my previous e-mail message yesterday.

It seems to me that you have a tendency to believe many impossible things, so why not one more and
STFU!

Anyway, I somewhat agree with the comment on being a "public figure": If you're going to say something in public, then you should expect to hear remarks about what you said in public.
That being said, why should remarks said in public show any respect for ideas that one finds repugnant? Why should remarks made in public refrain from causing offense? They shouldn't. If you take offense to things being written or don't want to have your silly ideas ridiculed, then you can either : 1) ignore it and get a life(no one is forcing you to read this blog, are they?), 2) Make your comment in private or public, and move on, 3) engage in debate, or 4) grab a soap box and start your own blog.
As for you, Mr Hartmann, you're just a n attention whore whiner with silly ideas that deserve no respect. A prime example of the rampant anti-intellectualism rampant in our society. I'm somewhat sorry I'm even giving you this modicum of attention. I'm only doing so to practice using HTML tags in the comments to PZ's blog.

Almost made it all the way through. As has been noted, a simple "I really hate you and don't care about you." would have sufficed.

He should either start or stop drinking.

I could only make it through the first paragraph and had to stop. I have a report to finish today and I need my wits, such as they are, about me.
I have to admire PZ for his being able to screen these screeds.

Ow. I almost went cross-eyed trying to read through that.

I think someone needs to convert Mr. Hartmann to the religion of paragraph breaks. All you have to do to join is hit the return key a few times.

Like so.

Damn I actually read all that. Every couple of lines I was hoping it to go somewhere, sigh. :(

Mr Hartmann, you wrote:

I hesitate to believe that your silence is some kind of assent to the truth of what I tried to express in my previous e-mail message yesterday.

It seems to me that you have a tendency to believe many impossible things, so why not one more and
STFU!

Anyway, I somewhat agree with the comment on being a "public figure": If you're going to say something in public, then you should expect to hear remarks about what you said in public.
That being said, why should remarks said in public show any respect for ideas that one finds repugnant? Why should remarks made in public refrain from causing offense? They shouldn't. If you take offense to things being written or don't want to have your silly ideas ridiculed, then you can either : 1) ignore it and get a life(no one is forcing you to read this blog, are they?), 2) Make your comment in private or public, and move on, 3) engage in debate, or 4) grab a soap box and start your own blog.
As for you, Mr Hartmann, you're just a n attention whore whiner with silly ideas that deserve no respect. A prime example of the rampant anti-intellectualism evident in our society. I'm somewhat sorry I'm even giving you this modicum of attention. I'm only doing so to practice using HTML tags in the comments to PZ's blog.
Sorry if this got double posted

I AM GUNNERY SERGEANT HARTMANN, YOUR SENIOR DRILL INSTRUCTOR. FROM NOW ON YOU WILL SPEAK ONLY WHEN SPOKEN TO, AND THE FIRST AND LAST WORDS OUT OF YOUR FILTHY SEWERS WILL BE SIR. DO YOU MAGGOTS UNDERSTAND THAT?

Completely off topic but in case you have not heard, Lux Interior died. My world just got a little less cheerfully perverse.

Because of all of the "man did not come from goo" statements of the past couple of days, I will link to Goo Goo Muck. Stay sick! And remember, Rock-N-Roll is the Devil's music!

If this guy were present in a room with PZ and a bunch of us having serious, civil conversations among ourselves, discussing evolution, science, religion, atheism, etc., he would be sitting (uninvited of course) in a corner, shaking his head back and forth, his hands pressed up against his ears and screaming "NYAH NYAY NYAH NYAH _I CAN'T HEAR YOU YOU, I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!___ NYAH NYAH NHAH....."

That's pretty much what he does here on this ream of virtual paper....

PZ Myers #287 wrote:

I'm sure that if I published the singing green religious alien puppet of Neil B, the woman who sent me the astrological proof that I was satan would be complaining next. I hate to break the sad news to you, but just because you're crazy doesn't make you special and unique. My mailbox is testimony to the banality of dementia.

Um .. I think Neil B was just making suggestions for some additional amusing blog entries -- not seriously advancing a space alien theology. His views on property dualism may have sparked some arguments way in the back of some of the longer threads, but he's not a kook complaining that you're not featuring his kook theory. I think you misread him.

1) How much does an average comment weigh? If we get it up to 500 comments is that equivilent to 500 tons?
2) How does someone complain about PZ having too much time on his hands spend the necessary amount of time to write that screed? Even with no thought and 50+ wpm, that had to take a half hour to compose.
3) Did I miss the post where PZ claimed to speak for anyone but himself? Scientist, atheist, or other?

From what I've seen of Myers' daily rants on Pharyngula,
Hartman's characterization of the man is spot on.

Wow, I read the whole thing (only one?). There's too many comments to read through, and I'm sure someone has mentioned this, but my favorite part by far of this 1,980 word rant comes at word 1,710 where he says "they knew when to shut up!" Too bad he doesn't.

Mr. Hartmann,

You are an inspiration.

Yours,
Christian Bale

"Because of all of the "man did not come from goo" statements of the past couple of days, I will link to Goo Goo Muck. Stay sick! And remember, Rock-N-Roll is the Devil's music!"

That's funny. I was thinking about sending a sample of my goo to yesterday's crank...

TLDNR

You son of a bitch, PZ! Stop screwing around with this trivial walking whale bullshit and tell me how I can go to Heaven even if there's no god! I demand that you tell me, because the other guy, let me tell you - he's offering a lot more than walking whales and distant alligator cousins!

Someone teach this guy the value of brevity.

My,that was tedious....

The incoherent homicidal ones with spelling and grammar issues are way funnier....

Wow. That's a lot of free time to write an e-mail....

Indeed- take it like a man.

From what I've seen of Myers' daily rants on Pharyngula,
Hartman's characterization of the man is spot on.

Could you parse that for us all, because frankly the specific point of his whole email was tough to discern.

OK. I confess. I read the whole thing, waiting to get to the point. What a bummer.

PZ, I don't think you should waste blog space on someone who clearly ISN'T ANY FUN. We do get entertaining whackos here from time to time, but this clearly wasn't one of them.

Mr. Hartman, there is one good use for your screed. You could prepackage it for the pharmaceutical industry. It would work as well as Thorizine and be much cheaper.

Brownian #318 Yes, yes, yes.

Also, Cuttlefish, thanks.

Garfunkel #363

From what I've seen of Myers' daily rants on Pharyngula, Hartman's characterization of the man is spot on.

And what exactly was that "characterization"? Were you actually able to discern a cogent point (regardless of the accuracy of that point) from that rambing nonsense?

Posted by: Garfunkel | February 5, 2009

From what I've seen of Myers' daily rants on Pharyngula,
Hartman's characterization of the man is spot on.

You came back? You really should look up Silver Fox. I know you two could become special friends.

Seldom has so many words been used to say so little to so many.

The Teal Deer, it burns.

PZ @ 287:

My mailbox is testimony to the banality of dementia.

And wouldn't "Banality of Dementia" be a great band name?

Garfunkel puked

From what I've seen of Myers' daily rants on Pharyngula, Hartman's characterization of the man is spot on.

I was going to say something witty, along the lines of

• » as an avid quotemining sockpupet, you would be able to find justification for ANY position in a screed that long
• » or did Garfunkel just find something on Pharyngula that he agree's with?
• » or even From what I've seen of Myers' daily rants on Pharyngula, Hartman's characterization of the man is spot onsputum.

In the end I couldn't find anything funny to say at all. So I won't.

Mr Garfunkel, if you don't like "the professor" then why do you hang around his blog like a dose of herpes?
It's not as if you have anything to contribute, and the post of village idiot is already filled by heddle/facilis.

"From what I've seen of Myers' daily rants on Pharyngula,
Hartman's characterization of the man is spot on."

Lol! Thank you! I laughed harder at that than anything else in this thread, and there's some good stuff here.

Why do I have a sneaking suspicion Silver Fox's first name is Simon?

PZ, could you please put the little image of the angry loon (tiny_gumby_trans.gif) in more places throughout these letters? Even though I'm already visualizing that image whilst reading their babbling tirades, it would be great to see it at the same time for even more lulz. Once per paragraph would be nice -- except in this guy's case, his English1010-violating, chapter-long paragraphs slightly reduce the effectiveness.

Anyway, the guy is hip with the 21st Century, for sure, with his "negative karma engine" and "bling" dropping and all.

Rev. BigDumbChimp: "Could you parse that for us all, because frankly the specific point of his whole email was tough to discern."

In a nutshell, Hartmann was saying that Myers comes across as an insufferable ass, except in the eyes of his amen chorus. Perhaps that's his purpose. If so, he's quite good at it. But I can assure you that Myers' rhetorical antics ensure that those who aren't themselves "godless liberals" won't take him seriously enough to actually be influenced by his "thinking." People who write and behave like Myers limit the size of their audience. I see that as a good thing. The marketplace of ideas is a healthier place when fanatics like Myers marginalize themselves by behaving in an infantile manner.

Wow. I really tried reading all that but I just couldn't make it through. Somebody needs to learn how to just get to the point.

"People who write and behave like Myers limit the size of their audience. "

Thank you for watching another episode of "It's True because I think it is" with Garfunkel.

What a long-winded loser.

As the number 1 atheist blog we have high standards. I suspect though that like most organisations we are seeking redundancies. Might I suggest that you, Mr Garfunkel, consider taking advantage?
I'm sure you have valuable seed to spill elsewhere.

In a nutshell, Hartmann was saying that Myers comes across as an insufferable ass, except in the eyes of his amen chorus

Drive-by religionists on Pharyngula say this a lot.Funny thing is,nothing could be further from the truth,seldom have I met such a diverse bunch of mostly clever and witty people from all kinds of academia (or non-academia).

The fact that there is a certain baseline agreement about the value of secular humanism and the damage that religion and its consequences does to mankind,does not make this an amen chorus.
But religionists tend to simplifications,it makes their world easier to understand.

Posted by: Garfunkel | February 5, 2009

In a nutshell, Hartmann was saying that Myers comes across as an insufferable ass, except in the eyes of his amen chorus. Perhaps that's his purpose. If so, he's quite good at it. But I can assure you that Myers' rhetorical antics ensure that those who aren't themselves "godless liberals" won't take him seriously enough to actually be influenced by his "thinking." People who write and behave like Myers limit the size of their audience. I see that as a good thing. The marketplace of ideas is a healthier place when fanatics like Myers marginalize themselves by behaving in an infantile manner.

In the marketplace of ideas, Garfunkel, you are losing. Among people who have gone over the evidence (No, I am not going to let go of that tidbit.), evolution is overwhelming. Yet you insist it is more philosophical that factual. But please do go on. You are doing well in marginalizing your extremist view.

AnthonyK: "Mr Garfunkel, if you don't like 'the professor' then why do you hang around his blog like a dose of herpes?"

I don't "hang around" Pharyngula (I only recently checked in), but I'd heard that it was a repellent blog that was shameful to science, so I thought I'd check it out. I've discovered that what I heard was correct. I concede that my interest in the blog is now a bit perverse, but my interest will quickly wane, I'm sure, as it would for anyone who doesn't have the patience to wade through a bunch of self-congratulatory, adolescent, vulgar "arguments."

PZ as the Messiah?

Well, when I pray to PZ for entertainment, I get it daily. When I pray to one of the more commercially successful gods like jezis and yaway and ah-la for things they register a 100% failure rate. As far as messiahs go, the big three ain't got nuthin' on PZ.

Garfunkel, please review the scientific literature in detail, and tell us which of the hundreds of thousands of papers backing evolution are real, and which are just philosophy. Cite each paper and show your work as to your decision, or you get no credit.

Thanks, Garf. I'll use that in the future.

"In a nutshell, Myers was saying that Ratzi comes across as an insufferable ass, except in the eyes of his amen chorus."

"In a nutshell, Myers was saying that Warren comes across as an insufferable ass, except in the eyes of his amen chorus."

"In a nutshell, Myers was saying that godbots come across as insufferable asses, except in the eyes of their amen chorus."

Wow!
[snark]
I never know that Pharyngula was sdhameful to science

I shall stop reading this blog right away!

Thank you Mr Garfunkel for showing me the light!
[/snark]

what an idiot. Does this dimwit even know what science means?

I have known and worked with many fine professors, and you sir, are not one.

Well, at least we know this nut isn't one of your co-workers.

@Garfunkel (#385):

Wow, for someone who spends his entire life preparing and looking forward to death, just because some ancient kooks wrote about an invisible man in the sky, you sure do carelessly throw out the word "fanatic."

Posted by: Garfunkel | February 5, 2009

I don't "hang around" Pharyngula (I only recently checked in), but I'd heard that it was a repellent blog that was shameful to science, so I thought I'd check it out. I've discovered that what I heard was correct.

One has to wonder what Garfunkel's idea of science is? Does it included revealed knowledge?

It will indeed be a sad day for all of us, Mr Garfunkel, when you tire of our vulgar profanities and leave. I trust that regulars here will be able to share our pain, move on, and resume our mundane lives without you.
Please give us good warning in ordere to set up any special self-help groups.
It's at times like this that I truly regret that we do not have the comfort of prayer.

Markovization is great! What fun. I ran it through a few more times:

Well sir,
I need to offend you, rather, it is me telling you really care a failure as an example I may receive on your "blog" today. You are regrettably there for a failure as an example I think that you protest that I picked up from your "blog" today. You might say: (imagine a beard for a Well sir,
I picked up from your "blog" today. You might say: (imagine a random example I notice in the human race! La-de-dah-de-dah-de-da. I think that you really care a random example I may have never met you really care a second saying this)
"You need to worry and to read about a beard for a second saying this)

I tried to read this so-called "email" in your so-called "blog" but it reeks of so-called "tl:dr".

Davey @401:

"You need to worry and to read about a beard for a second..."

Don't know why, but this line made me really happy.

Wow, was there an actual POINT in there somewhere?? I mean apart from 'waaaah! I don't like you and I'd rather bury my head in the sand than look at the world'?

Janine @376 - Eewwww!

You and the Chimp are on an ick-roll today. Silver Fox with a special friend imagery spoiled the taste of my banana muffin.

BTW, Garfunkle, if you're looking to make a name for yourself, you've got a long ways to go. We see people like you come and go here all the time. It takes real persistence/insanity to attain the legendary status of someone like Kenny or FtK.

However, although you're still minor league I'm pulling for you. You've got real potential.

I hope one day to have as awesome a collection of titles as these.
"atheist "blog-meister," small-town scientist, condemner of "inferior people," Lord over ALL "creationists" and defender of truth"

I concede that my interest in the blog is now a bit perverse, but my interest will quickly wane, I'm sure, as it would for anyone who doesn't have the patience to wade through a bunch of self-congratulatory, adolescent, vulgar "arguments."

Ok here's something.

I haven't seen you make any real arguments either.

Tell us your thoughts on science. What topics do you find interesting?

Holy crap, what the fuck is he talking about?
Just goes on and on in circles without ever really saying anything.

He could have saved a great deal of time by shortening his email to just 'I don't like you.'

tldr

But oddly enough, I got a laugh out of that anyway.

SaraField @388:

What a long-winded loser.

David Hartmann or Garfunkel?

Garfunkel @385:

...behaving in an infantile manner

Good thing for you my new Irony Meter is still in the box and hasn't been powered on yet or you'd be getting an earful from me right about now. I still haven't cleared all the smoke out of the room from the last meter that went *poof* when Martha's moronically ironic statement caught me with my Irony Meter on its high gain setting.

Patricia, methinks you are reading a different meaning to the term "special friends". It is all about the special view of science that they share. Yeah. That's it.

Mr. Hartmann,

It's okay. Really. No one is going to wrestle you to the ground and steal your faith. You are still allowed to believe anything you want.

However, if you are (as appears to be the case) uninterested in biology, evolution, and the opinions of the godless, you could save yourself a lot of distress by just reading the label. Right there at the top of the page it says, "Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal". What the heck were you expecting to see when you came here?

Shorter (much shorter) David Hartmann,

I don't like you PZ, but read your blog and scream at my screen everyday.

Christ, what a fracking retread. Here's a hint Mr. Hartmann, if you don't like PZ, don't read him, simple, problem solved. I personal think that people like Hannity, Limbaugh and Coutler are a complete waste of bandwidth, TV/radio air time and paper pulp, so I simply don't read them. Saves me a lot of time,... time that can better spend,... like reading PZ's blog.

I've read some meandering diatribes in my time, but that was by and far the most boring and tiresome. I mean he banged on for ages but never actually said anything, bar 'your a meanie and I don't like you'.

I love how all bloggers start off with 0 readers. The only way that increases is if people like what you have to say.

In other news, "Comment Not Found"

The best part was when he took a potshot at science and in the next breath referred to the "miracle" of the internet.

"One has to wonder what Garfunkel's idea of science is? Does it included revealed knowledge?"

He was bandying the argument from solipsism yesterday. So I guess revealed knowledge would be the only way out of that. For the revelee, of course.

"However, although you're still minor league I'm pulling for you. You've got real potential."

Nah, he really hasn't done anything to distinguish himself from all the other poor dears who complain about the tone here.

But Rey, Garfunkel gave me my new title.

Professor Myers, do you ever find the time to read ALL of the comments? I mean... over 400. This is crazy.

This blog is "repellent?"

What does it repell? And can it be bioengineeered to retard the spread of malaria?

Dave, you sound like a closet atheist. You need to read more blog's like this one, and then keep reading, and reading, and reading ...

Hey PZ, that link was something I found out there for you guys to have fun looking at, it isn't about my ideas or something I created. So the one time I give you something to make fun of religious practice, the sort of thing you and commenters put up all the time, and a good one - you blow it off. Too pig-headed to even tell the difference? And your featured correspondent was boring, although at this point I can appreciate a little bit of his criticism. I think the video clip of the singing alien is funnier and worth more in "entertainment" value than that slogging trash, and so I told you. So what?
Asshole.

That's awesome. At least two to show up just to tell PZ how much he's disliked by everyone.

I wonder if Garfunkel and Hartmann demonstrate to the world how much they despise foreign cars by buying new model Camrys every year.

And how could I have missed these gems?

I have known and worked with many fine professors, and you sir, are not one.

Earning fifty bucks as a guinea pig in a clinical trial doesn't count as working with professors.

I may have majored in biology myself, for all you know, I may have more degrees than you, but that is not the point.

This is where the morons always give themselves away. They think PhDs, master's, or even bachelor's degrees are like the section on conics in high school math: other than results on an exam, there's nothing to differentiate an expert from a non-expert. But if this doofus managed to make it through four years of any degree program without learning where the 'enter' key on a keyboard is, then his papers and exams should've been scrutinized a little more closely for plagiarism.

In other words, David, you're trying to convince us you just might be a master plumber, but you hold a pipe wrench like you've never seen a metal tool in your life. If you don't understand what this means, then ask one of your fine professor friends to explain it to you.

Dear PZ Messiah, please educate Ranty on the value of concise sentence structure.

Yo, Neil B: You have your own fucking blog. If the green alien dancers or mimes or whatever the fuck it was is really all that fucking important then post it on your fucking blog then wait for the traffic. Be patient.
Otherwise, go blow yourself. Or go blow a donkey. At least the donkey will care what you have on your mind. The folks here; not so much.
Thanks in advance.

"Shameful to Science" would be a good band name.

All you need to know is that food goes in one end, and it comes out the other.

I was about to post a response to Neil B, but WRMartin beat me to it.

Neil:

What he said.

Mr Hartman could use a book of Shakespeare quotes, to help him learn to be concise. The Bard wrote a thought that describes Hartmann's email-
"sound and fury, signifying nothing"

Actually, WRMartin, I see that your response is ultimately the wisest take on the whole thing. Sure.

wow, I so gave up trying to be charitable and actually read the harangue after the second huge wall of text.

For those with more perseverance in the face of the niagara falls of the pointless wordspew, did he actually have a point?

I can just imagine the foam building up as his face gets redder and redder and redder until..pop! Aneurysm...dude, take a chill pill. Much like the telly, computers have an off-switch. Learn to use it.

David Hartmann, I offer you this counsel from St. Paul, whose letter to the Philippians I have slightly paraphrased:

"Finally, brother, whatsoever things are brief, whatsoever things are concise, whatsoever things are pithy, whatsoever things are succinct, whatsoever things are terse, whatsoever things are of few words expressed; if there be any point, and if there be any premise, think on these things."

Think of them long and well BEFORE you set fingers to keyboard.

Also, eschew quotation marks.

You're welcome.

Neil B #432:

No, re my #361, I just think PZ was hasty and misread you.

(I couldn't get those links in #274 to work btw)

[creotard WARBLEGARBLE]

"Oh I know, you probably feel so useful in your roles as atheist "blog-meister," small-town scientist, condemner of "inferior people," Lord over ALL "creationists" and defender of truth (as you seem to perceive it anyway), and you probably don't have time for my little rants."

[/creotard WARBLEGARBLE]

... WOAH! PZ is a "blog-meister?!" Any relation to Heat-meister and Freeze-meister, PZ? I can just hear the charming Christmas Happy Monkey carols now:

"He's mister BLOG-MEISTER he's anti-god.
He's mister tentacle
He's mister CEPHALOPOD!"

Thanks for clearing that up Janine. I'll be able to tackle my lunch now.

I am sick of this blog. I spend hours and hours on here, obsessing over it. It constantly frustrates me that although I have asserted, time and time again, in excruciating detail, my contrary opinion that God is God and Jesus is our saviour - but all I get is insults.
I have hijacked every thread and proved that I am right to my own satisfaction (and I have very high standards!), yet a conspiracy of narrow-monded rationalists and free thinkers insist on not taking them seriously.
I have continually criticised evolutionary "theory" with wit and insight, yet still the "scientific establishment" remains un-toppled.
I find the posters here to be a bunch of insufferable arseholes, and say so, yet get nothing but insults for my pains.
PZ Myers is in illiterit, arrogant vulva, who wouldn't reconise real science if it sequenced his genome and cured his cancer; he should get a life and stop posting on his infuriating blog as if he owned the place.
I am going now and will return to say the exact same thing over and over again till the Rapture comes.
Peace in Christ to you all.
Now fuck off and leave me alone.

uhm...i just thought about this: a super chaotic experimentaxion about the psichology of the argumentation:

St paul, peter, john, _ insert common latin name here_ were a bunch of buggers. They couldn't interpret any of the words of god or christ with precision. They forgot to document with time periods the exact moments of the life of christ relevant for the sake of history sense... God is actually a guy inside a machine in a big green city...sometimes he even uses a flamming bush to scare little people... this is all true. As true as the religious fanatics make the story about any biologist or astronomer's life or work....
Must work on this a bit more...

Hereby nominating AnthonyK (#438) for a Molly. That was dead on.

Wouldn't it be nice if the professor put up all the hate mail he gets if only to give us all a laugh?

I second #440 -- AnthonyK's post was definitely worth the repetitive stress injury caused by scrolling to the bottom of the page. I was also amused to see someone else was expecting to see the original email transition suddenly into the Prince of Bel Air.

Actually frog, you only need to know that food goes in one end, and which end that is. The rest you'll figure out in 12-14 hours, depending on dietary fibre content.

I'm sure there is a newspaper editor, wherever it is Mr Hartmann lives, who truly regrets publishing the email address for the "Letters to the Editor" section.

Mr Hartmann,

Paragraphs are your friends.

In his defense you are a bit of an asshole :P

Pfffftttt.

If I had been insane enough to write that incredibly long e-mail rant, I would have gone for the added Style bonus points and send in the bloody thing with snailmail, handwritten, on embossed paper.

A thought just occurred:
Wouldn't using a computer and / or the internet conflict with literal interpretation of the bible ?

It hasn't been easy picking a thread-winner, but I've read all of the 438 comments so far, and it's pretty plain that it's AnthonyK@438 FTW!

Yup! Sign him up for a molly!

I liked the whale info, actually. And the big effin' snakes today.

FU, Hartmann. I didn't realize we were supposed to be solving the worlds problems on a frickin' blog.

That was the most painful ten minutes of my life. All he does is repeat the samething for a thousand paragraphs over and over again, and when he finally gets to the point, he moves to another topic for another thousand paragraphs. No matter how funny it was, by the end of it, I was in great pains, especially my neurons, and I wanted it to end. For some reason, I kept reading.

. . . spittle-flecked disjointed ramble . . .

Great name for a blog, or for a bluegrass band that refuses to do stained glass bluegrass.

What do you know that this guy needs to know? Everything, it appears.

I'll bet he had to look up both "spittle" and "fleck."

Not to state the obvious, but is the "below the fold" function broken?

While it's good that diatribe is not wasting trees, it wasn't even worth the electrons.

my God, they knew when to shut up

my irony meter just 'sploded.

Why is it that people with nothing to say, go on and on... and on.
damn.

@Daniel M [#433],
"For those with more perseverance in the face of the niagara falls of the pointless wordspew, did he actually have a point?"

Yes. He was upset; and he could've just as easily typed only "WAAAAAH!" before clicking "Send".

(Nice metaphor for his spew, BTW.)

If the nonsense of David's e-mail could be harvested as energy, it would be enough to create a supernova. Could any human read that whole e-mail without his mind imploding? I read the whole thing and mine just did.

@me,
"just as easily"? WTF am I saying. I mean, "_way_ more easily"...

@ricklend [#457],
"Could any human read that whole e-mail without his mind imploding?"

Yes. Mind is still intact. Creobot-humor doesn't yield implosion for me.

Oh, how interesting. I looked through the records, and "Garfunkel" is actually "Jim in Vermont" and "Superman" and "JohnDoe" and "Jackie".

Say goodbye. He's getting banned.

You see - total arrogance.
Banning someone just because he's a troll.
Who gave you the job of god of pharyngula, PZ?

Bye-bye Garfunkel!

I hope he reads all these comments to his rant. Gosh, he must have a lot of empty time on his hands. It must have taken him over an hour to write his scree. What a waste of space, him and his rant!

Sastra - yeah, the context got mixed up but I'll grant I don't need to berate blog owners about their choice of content versus my suggestions. Just as an independent point, this stuff is indeed IMHO hilarious and fun to watch and listen. Try this link:

http://www.fiveshock.com/ran/scary.html

Do not question me, or I will smite thee.

Bye-Bye Garfunkel, the next time you show up I expect you to turn in your homework showing the papers on evolution in scientific literature that are philosophy and not science. Show citations for all the papers in the literature. There are quite a few.

Too long, didnt read.

In fact when i reached the part when i dispains the importance of the recent whale transitional fossil, i lost
all hope of readind something which actually made sense.

Ah, too bad -- Garfunkle kept a lot of people busy and happy for quite a while on some of the other threads. But, PZ has the right to ban trolls who morph into other trolls.

But I do think he was unfair to Neil B in #287 (361, 424)-- jumped the gun and misread him. Perhaps these crank letters are getting him shell-shocked. The constant beat, beat, beat of the jungle drums will drive a man mad...

It reads a bit like Vicky Pollard from Little Britain. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzUniIMIuGU

I just looked through one of the recent threads to remind myself of exactly the sort of rubbish posted by Garfunkel/JohnDoe/Jackie etc. - in one of them he (as JohnDoe) actually congratulated himself (as Jackie) for bringing up valid points*.

Morphing I've seen, but this is the first sockpuppetry I've experienced. Good to be rid of him/them.

*When I say 'valid points' I of course mean 'cowardly, completely worthless, self-indulgent blather by an idiot.'

Hey, if we get to 500 comments, do we get one from Mr Hartmann? We'd like a word with him....but not 2000.
Joke time then:

How many creationists does it take to change a lightbulb?
None. Electricity is just a theory.

How many Heddles does it take to change a lightbulb?
That depends on your presuppositions, as he pointed out in a previous thread...

Your go!

Neil B #464:

EGADS. Is that ... Bat Boy???

He ESCAPED!

(ok, couldn't watch more than a minute or so ... what is the point of it being... whatever it is?)

Garfunkle is Jackie?

No wonder she dodged my questions again.

The point ... if you dig "weird stuff" and get a kick out of it, especially stunning conjunctions between things like fundamental religion and aliens, etc. I enjoy movies like "Eraserhead", strange comics like Zap Comix, etc. That digging of "weird stuff" also drives much of my interest in extreme cosmological and metaphysical theories, multiverses, universe-as-simulation, time travel paradoxes, mind uploaded into Platonic "computers" and offbeat theological speculations but of course no regard for the conventional beliefs and sources of the common people ;-)

So... He's agreeing with the fact that evolution happened... but he doesn't want people to be vocal about it? That 'normal' folk shouldn't be bothered with such stuff that might contradict their religion (as long as they believe in a strict interpretation) and upset them?

What?

"You are an embarrassment to the academic world. With all your knowledge, your are in my estimation a failure as an educator"

I think that he has to realize that the way someone speaks on their blog may be completely different than the way they are in the classroom, and that short of actually attending a class he really has no way of knowing what kind of professor PZ Myers may be.

"I notice in your "blog" today"

I love that he puts the word blog in quotations, as if because he doesn't agree with the content it shouldn't be considered a blog.

Bravo Anthony K! Bravo!

What a surprise about the sockpuppetry. Garfunkle's Jackie form was the most heinous with all her backwoods blather and condescending sweet-talk, although the Superman form was pretty bad, too. It is kind of disconcerting that someone would do that, but it's a good reminder of how nasty Christian love can be toward fellow human beings (the same goes for that ex-whatchamacallit poser). The sum total insipidness and bile from all those Garfunkle personalities really stands out in its shamefulness against David Hartmann's stream of unconsciousness.

Just adding my bit of criticism for Mr. Hartmann, in the hopes that he make an appearance at the 453,592.37 kilogram mark.

God forbid that one of your students may not think as you do!

Wow, all of Professor Myers' students have thought exactly as he does? I don't believe that. I'd wager that the good professor has had plenty of students with different viewpoints, on a myriad of issues and topics.

Neil B #474 wrote:

The point ... if you dig "weird stuff" and get a kick out of it, especially stunning conjunctions between things like fundamental religion and aliens, etc

Oh, I get the point of you posting it -- it's damn weird. I was asking if they ever get around to explaining why Bat Boy/ space alien / green demon from hell is praising God in song? Is it part of some larger story about Jesus on other planets?

Better descended from that brave whale than a homo sap.

Posted by: PZ Myers| February 5, 2009

Oh, how interesting. I looked through the records, and "Garfunkel" is actually "Jim in Vermont" and "Superman" and "JohnDoe" and "Jackie".

Say goodbye. He's getting banned.

No wonder "Garfunkel" really disliked me, I did play rough with some of the other sockpuppets.

Huh. No wonder his whinging sounded so familiar.

What is it with the sycophant, acolyte, ass-kisser, "messianic blessing" thing? Am I supposed to feel insulted or something??

Admittedly, I seldom disagree with PZ or what he's about with his (by definition: personal opinion) blog, but that hardly makes me a disciple.

Although PZ did lose me with that "smite" thing @ 465. Hell threats and smiting, heard all that shit before.

Now, a "deny beer" threat, that might engender some obedience. But PZ knows where to draw the line.

They say that "brevity is the soul of wit" and this email does nothing to dispel that notion.

"...but my God, they knew when to shut up!"

Oh the irony!

having fun yet, mr. hartmann?

@479: OK, their point not mine .... Well this seems to be a very independent puppeteer or splinter group of "Christian Scientists" (not like Heddle, but the Baker sect.) This pupeteer David Hart loves the idea of mixing religion and space aliens, and prompts the "host" James to read in a pompous voice from the Odes of Solomon and the Book of Enoch (pseudographia called "lost books of the Bible" by some.) There are mentions of being taken up in chariots to other worlds, etc. (remember Ezekial and the connection to "Gods from outer space" etc?) James rolls his eyes from time to time, maybe he's giggling inside.
See also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsPwtJCuC-U.

Wow. Considering how long it must have taken to output the mass of keystrokes required for such a voluminous screed, and one he apparently expected you to ignore, his time must not be worth very much to him.

louis, up there at #58, imo, hits the nail squarely on the head.

i hope you read it, mr. hartmann. if you did, go back and read it a second time, perhaps a third and a fourth time, till it sinks in and you fully comprehend your error.

Now that was some pretty crazy shit. I couldn't read it all. Got half way through and the whacko was just too thick to wade through. It would have helped if the guy knew what a paragraph was. I seriously think this one has a mental illness of some sort (apart from the religious one).

The 313th comment says what *really* needed to be said back at the very start - perhaps the good Mr. Hartmann could now pick up where he left off and enlighten us some more.

One of the things I find interesting about email is how many people apparently think that:

a) They're writing a letter on paper, and
b) That paper is really expensive, also
c) So is ink, so
d) They absolutely cannot go back, reread, or (FSM forbid) actually EDIT it before pressing "send".

I mean, really - endless running sentences that were content free - if he actually did have a point besides, "I don't like you very much PZ" I missed it by droning off halfway through (I thought the line break was it at first - imagine my surprise...)

David Hartmann eats babies.

We're so close to 500 comments!!!!
C'mon gang!

Oh, that prophetic David Hartmann *swoon*

Five hundred comments? Just to tick off the Hartmann? I'm game.

Does seem a shame to get 500 posts from such a lame screed though. I mean, I couldn't read the whole thing, but what exactly was his beef? Sod it, I don't care. Just 4 more to go...

PZ - I'm begging you, PLEASE post the astrological proof that you are satan.

Ton Of Criticism(tm) #500 comin' up shortly!

#499? #500? overshoot?

Acolyte of PZ satan tries to be 500