That Iowa. The state south of us: rural farm country, relatively conservative (well, maybe more moderate than conservative), and yet their supreme court has surprisingly made a strong and progressive decision. The Iowa Supreme Court has struck down laws prohibiting gay marriage as unconstitutional.
Polk County District Judge Robert Hanson found that the law violated the Iowa Constitution's guarantee of equal protection, and hurt gay and lesbian couples "in numerous tangible and intangible" ways
"Civil marriage in Iowa is the only gateway to an extensive legal structure that protects a married couple's relationship and family in and outside the state," Hanson ruled in Des Moines.
"Iowa reserves an unparalleled array of rights, obligations and benefits to married couples and their families, privileging married couples as a financial and legal unit and stigmatizing same-sex couples."
Wow. I am impressed with our neighboring state. Can we get this kind of sensible support for equality in place here in Minnesota, too? How about nation-wide?
- Log in to post comments
More like this
WooWoo... congrats Iowa! Minesota must be next, sandwiched between Iowa and those of us in Ontario as you are.
OK, Minnesota. You've got to catch up with the Iowegians now!
I'm originally from Iowa. Born in Orange City. Elementary school and College in Ames. I am so fucking proud today. And I'm also enjoying the though of all my right-wing Dutch Reformed relatives in Sioux County freaking the fuck out.
Yeah, well... I bet god will smite Iowa with tornadoes for this. Sometime this year. In some random location.
First, we have to see if it is going to survive the shit storm that groups like the AFA, Mormons, Catholic Church and other arch defenders of "traditional" marriage are going to bring. Sadly, I foresee them try to put this to a vote like what was done in California and Prop 8.
Though that could be interesting. I think that many GLBT activists learned from that fiasco.
It's all that hybrid corn.
Awesome for Iowa, but I'm not optimistic that it will last. If California reoutlawed it, why should we expect the more conservative state to be sane about it?
Great news - am really pleased to hear this. It seems reason, decency, and the moral obligation to show dignity to all have prevailed.
This must really stick the finger up at the fanatics (Alliance Defense Fund, Focus on the Family, Tony Perkins, crackpot Ex-Gay ministries and others) who have used religion to attack LGBT people. Hopefully their days are finally numbered.
PS It's also high time the ludicrous Don't Ask Don't Tell law was abolished too. It seems the Obama administration is going to shelve this inhumane legislation...
Janine,
It's MUCH harder to amend the Iowa constitution. It has to go through the legislature (two sessions) and the legislative leadership supports marriage equality. There will be nothing coming out of the lege this session.
I think this one's safe.
The referendum to amend the state constitution begins in 3...2...1...
Re: "I bet god will smite Iowa with tornadoes for this."
God will ironically punish Iowa by sending hurricanes, tornadoes, and a drought to ravage the Bible-believing South. So watch out Georgia, Kentucky, Oklahoma, etc! That's how he rolls.
Just in case anyone has any doubt: I support this decision.
Sweden just approved same-sex marriages, with every party except the Christian Democrats (big surprise) in favour:
http://janneinosaka.blogspot.com/2009/04/bit-of-good-news-from-sweden.h…
MAJeff, thank you for clarifying that. But I cannot help but to be paranoid that all of the groups I that named are working towards a challenge to this.
I wouldn't bet that it's over yet. You know someone's going to challenge it and keep gay marriage in legal limbo. The whole separate but equal approach to gay marriage simply doesn't work because civil unions don't give the same benefits as marriage, i.e. shared life insurance, power to make decisions about each others' healthcare during a time of emergency, taxes, etc.
This surprises me (but in a good way, of course). Way to go, Iowa. Now MN must play catch up.
I believe Iowa has judicial retention elections - is there not a danger that some of the supreme court justices could be voted out of office as payback for this, if the religious lobby gets mobilised?
From the Iowa Speaker of the House and Senate Majority Leader:
Woo Hoo! Only a few more kilometers of progress, and my dream will be within reach: opening a specialty wedding chapel across the street from Westboro Baptist Church.
Hey, a guy can dream...
Thank you, Walton. We all care deeply about your feelings. I was waiting with bated breath.
(Also: yay Iowa!!!)
@"Iowa reserves an unparalleled array of rights, obligations and benefits to married couples and their families, privileging married couples as a financial and legal unit": If this is true, then singles are being unfairly treated too. When are they going to fix that?
As a former Nebraskan, I have to say, go Iowa! Here's wishing that lots of happy couples will come visit you (and probably end up spending money on weddings and stuff, making people in the state happy).
Maybe the three years it'll take before the fundamentalists can even hope to get an amendment in the constitution will convince everyone else that, hey, same-sex marriage isn't a scary bogeyman at all.
Walton,
Oh good. My first thought was : What does Walton think about this?
Happy Day! I liked gay Democratic State Senator Matt McCoy's reaction in The Des Moines Register:
But wait, this means that my marriage is over since I have a) been to Iowa and b) am heterosexual and married. Right?
Ok perhaps not then!
Well done Iowa! I've long thought that those darned homosexuals getting away without mothers-in-law was too good for them. Why shouldn't they suffer like the rest of us?
;-)
Louis
As another Iowan-born, I'm happy about this decision. I know the conservatives will throw a fit about "activist judges", but the court did what it is suppose to do, strike down a law that is unconstitutional. A sound legal decision that should be reflected in any state that claims to promote equality among all citizens.
This decision IS the big news here in the Land-O-Corn.
Not only was the ban shot down, the Iowa Supreme Count was unanimous in its decision!
On an interesting sidenote, Iowa seems to have a sort of split personality when it comes to the political spectrum. The northwest corner is staunchly Republican, while the southeast around Davenport and Iowa City (where I am) leans more toward the Democrats.
If you could see a map of county-by-county results for the past few presidential elections, the northwest would be bright red, and the southeast deep blue, blending into each other with the balance point somewhere around Des Moines.
I'm so proud to be an Iowan right now.
And don't worry, god smited us last year with tornados and floods. I think he was pissed about california. He'll need to pick another random location to smite for our actions this year.
Possibly the best part: the decision was unanimous.
Congratulations, Iowa!
No kings,
Robert
My probably overoptimistic feeling is that if this ruling can stand in any state it would be Iowa. Iowans are big into fairness. Consider their voting district boundries and how they were drawn.
I said this on another blog about this ... but, you know that scene in 'Mars Attacks!' where the Martians have their heads explode inside their helmets due to yodelling music being played?
This is how I imagine the bigot when equality like this happens :)
This is wonderful, wonderful news ... yay Iowa!!! I do think this means a lot being a midwestern state for the first time.
Now we need to keep our fingers crossed for Vermont, New Jersey and New York (and California, of course).
Almost makes me wish I was from Iowa. Very well done. Sanity and compassion prevail.
Wonderful news! And in a year or two nobody will understand what all the bigoted fuss was about.
Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain
Fuck yeah!
So Iowa ups the ante in the long held border-battle. Come on fellow Minnesotans, we can't let them have bragging rights for being more rational and less bigoted than us.
The latest I've heard on the same-sex marriage in Minnesota is that there is talk that the opposite sex language may be taken out of our marriage laws which would then permit same-sex marriage.
Awesome! Where can I see the fundie outrage? Has the AFA come out with a statement yet?
Iowa is actually pretty progressive, if you leave out the western part of the state, which I sincerely wish we could cede to Nebraska. Heck, my state senator, Matt McCoy, is an openly gay man, and the senator just east of my district is an African-American Muslim. One of our US senators is the genuinely liberal Tom Harkin. And don't forget, Obama won the caucuses here handily. (Also, we were one of the few states who went for Dukakis, way back when.)
Iowa doesn't have the proposition/ballot initiative crap here, so the California thing won't happen here. All the xtianists can hope for is a constitutional amendment, and it's not going to happen. We have a majority Dem legislature and a Dem governor - although he's certainly not a progressive Dem - and I don't see them doing anything whack anytime soon.
Yay Iowa! W00t!
As a fellow Iowan, we can now proudly claim originating the following:
- Happy Joe's Taco Pizza
- Buffalo Bill Cody
- Rosanne Barr
- Equal rights for same sex marriages in the Midwest
YAAAY! one more small step towards equality!
A random location, like.... Indiana or Wisconsin. 'Cause, you know, He works in mysterious ways.
I don't know if anyone else is into reading the opinion, but it does a fine job of explaining the legal/logical reasoning that led to their conclusion. (Opinion available at http://www.desmoinesregister.com/assets/pdf/D213209243.PDF) I particularly like that they address the woo woo crowd and discount their arguments.
Posted by: MissPrism | April 3, 2009 12:18 PM
Wonderful news! And in a year or two nobody will understand what all the bigoted fuss was about.
***********
I suspect the next move by the homophobes will be to push for a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage on the 2010 election ballot.
FishyFred @37 -
Where can I see the fundie outrage?
here you go:
http://pandagon.net/index.php/site/comments/iowa_supreme_court_rules_in…
Pam Spaulding has a post up showing the reaction from AFTAH and Free Republic ... it's a wonderful combination of religious insanity and "I've failed Civics 101" ...
Now they just need to stop calling it marriage (which has religious connotations that the state should stay away from) and stop giving people benefits for it (which is unfair to single folks, dammit).
In fact I'm not sure official "partnership" is good for much (from the state perspective) besides having a default owner for your belongings if you croak.
Am I missing something?
Ah yes, I love my state! Does this make us more progressive than California?
There go them damn gays again advancing their agenda...towards equality.
I think the AFA died of cardiac arrest when they found out.
I tried to find their reaction, so I tried to find their sight. It won't come up. Not even the page about the "homosexual agenda".
The usual suspects are already pouting:
But what about same-person marriages?
FishyFred: No, the AFA hasn't come down yet. (I just checked their website.) They're still outraged that Pepsi sponsored a "Family Guy" episode that suggested God hates homosexuals! So, go drink a Pepsi.
The FRC (Family Research Council) has warned that Iowa's move to legalize same-sex marriage will lead to the "end of democracy as we know it."
I would kind of agree as same-sex marriage would make our country MORE democratic.
Hey now, like the justices pointed out in their decision, Iowa has a long history of being ahead of the curve on extending equal protection to new groups. They don't always end up on the right side, but they do tend to be ahead of the curve. Hell, they banned segregation almost a hundred years before Brown v Board of Education.
And the last paragraph of the decision is golden. Separate but equal is crap, marriage for everybody!
Congratulations, Iowa!
No Roberts,
King
The acronym for IOWA used to be "I Owe the World an Apology". Today it stands for "I Owned the World All-righty".
(married in Iowa the day Chernobyl blew up and still living in this suddenly wonderful state)
I can't help but be incredibly happen to hear things like this, as MAJeff posted earlier, come from a politician:
Double bacon today for all those Iowanians who supported that and made it happen. It's just so nice to see that people are finally starting to get it.
They will be required however to give back quadrouple bacon if they pull a California about it.
For now, I'm staying optomistic that finally things are going to start changing and the extremist views on social issues will fade into non-existance only to be mentioned as the ass-end of a joke.
This is very good news. However, I am confused. Is inter-species marriage also legal in Iowa, or is it now banned? And if so, will special legislation be needed for pigeeons, say, to legally breed, or we will revert to nature wed in tooth and claw?
Perahaps an Iowan legan-eagle could enlighten me.
(following previous on partnership) Oh and emergency healthcare decisions are useful when you're incapacitated. I meant that too.
IOWA? Idiots out Wandering Aimlessly? They beat us to gay marriage?
Curse you pennsyltucky... CURSE YOU!!!
Damn, I must remeber that "legal" is never far away from "l"
HenryS: yes, that may well be the bigots' next move. But because of court rulings like these, time is not on their side: after gay marriage has been legal for a while, and the sky hasn't fallen, and the streets aren't littered with corpses, and nobody's married their dog - well, all the scaremongering seems a bit stupid in retrospect.
At least, that's been the general pattern in most European countries. Maybe it would work differently in the US, though?
Huraaaa!!! Never thought my home state would manage this great leap in my life. My next trip home later this month is going to be interesting. I get to watch my youngest sister have fits over things she doesn't think should be seen in public because she might have to explain them to her kids. Maybe I should tell her I’m Bi just to see if her head explodes.
AnthonyK: Um, and what is that inane comment about interspecies marriage supposed to contribute to this post?
This is wonderful news, but now I have a dilemma. On one hand, the "marrying sheep" joke is homophobic and asinine. On the other hand, this is Iowa we're talking about, so it's very hard to resist.
#31 - that was beautiful.
Very good news. Anything that flies in the face of bigots is good news.
Too bad we can't have that kind of rational thinking in California. It'd prevent situations like this.
Hey, what about polyamorous / group marriages?
Why can't I have a wife and marry our live-in girlfriend? (besides the headache of 2 mother-in-laws)?
I'm going to move to Iowa in a few months, so this makes be quite proud since I'll shortly be from the state. :) A day for all Midwesterners to be proud, this is a bit of plains progressivism nostalgia.
Hopefully California is even more ashamed of itself after it was just shown how to conduct law by Iowa. I watched much of the Iowa oral arguments so I wasn't surprised much by this ruling (though I admittedly thought they may have thrown it back to a lower court and drawn things out more).
The recent court case in California... I could only watch like 5 minutes, it was going so horribly.
@51: Maybe by "the end of democracy as we know it," they really mean the democracy where they're the majority that always gets their way? So there's a half-truth to saying "democracy as we know it."
"Why can't I have a wife and marry our live-in girlfriend? (besides the headache of 2 mother-in-laws)?"
more importantly, why can't I have a husband and marry my mil's pool boy?
Clearly the tide is turning, and will never turn back.
Clearly the tide is turning, and will never turn back.
I know Sarah_In_Chicago already mentioned Pam's House Blend. But your your entertainment/horror, here is the list of Freeper quotes that Pam has dived in for.
I was especially amused by the prediction of crop failure.
Awesome!
IOWA : You're doing it right!
Congrats, Iowa. As a Californian, I am both pleased and incredibly jealous. Even if it's harder to amend the constitution in your state, might I suggest that you start marrying as many gay couples as possible? Maybe set up a wedding assembly line, or a couple of Vegas-style drive thru chapels. Just to create a legal and administrative clusterfuck should anyone try to ban the marriages later.
*crosses fingers for Cal Supreme Court overturning the new amendment*
@#72 Janine, Insulting Sinner
Wow, those people really are pathetic. Conspiracy theories and religion go hand-in-hand.
Yay us! Honestly, this doesn't really surprise me. While there's a lot of rural conservative folk, they are far outnumbered by the large cities, which tend to be full of more liberal types. I live in Iowa City and it's ridiculously, wonderfully liberal here. Also, highest per capita lesbian population of anywhere I've ever been, from my personal observations.
Janine @72 -
My personal favourite was from Peter LaBarbera of 'Americans For Truth About Homosexuality' (AFTAH):
"The evil genius of the pro-sodomy movement is that it targets noble institutions like marriage and adoption in the name of ‘rights,’ and then perverts and uses them to normalize aberrant and destructive behaviors."
I seriously want "Evil Genius of the Pro-Sodomy Movement" on a t-shirt :)
My opinion is that the best way to drive more legalizations in the future, and to prevent any constitutional amendments, is culture. Even if people do not personally know LGBT people in their neighborhood, if they see them in culture, then surely they would not favor banning it, even if it is due ot "fictional characters."
As a moldy, but unrepentant straight hetero (Alright, kinky hetero) I applaud Iowa. Yes, it will be appealed, attacked, and vilified, but (to really mix metaphors) I believe the dikes will hold and the castle will remain secure. I may be overly optimistic, but I am reminded of what Churchill wrote about the battle of El Alamein: It might almost be said that before Alamein we never had a victory. After Alamein we never had a defeat.
the pro-sodomy movement
There's a movement to rebuild the ancient land of Sodom? Who knew?
The whole notion that marriage brings certain economic benefits is inherently unfair. Those of us who prefer to remain single are getting the short end of the stick in many ways.
I think it's great that if the gays want to have mothers-in-law and whatnot, they should be able to. Anyone who wants to get married should be able to. But stop economically disenfranchising the singletons, OK?!
(Next up: why don't breeders pay more taxes than non-breeders; or, at the very least, keep it equal. Having kids is a "lifestyle choice" and I am sick of paying for yours.)
My favorite:
So, God gave us the Constitution and the Bill of Rights? And, he left no word of himself in any of it except to say that government should stay out of religion?
Comprehension: You're doing it wrong.
YAY!
im crossing my fingers for Missouri being soon! I know so many lovely couples sad that they cant be married.
On the concerns over a challenge: Sure, those groups Janine mentioned are no doubt researching it frantically right now, and gearing up for their fundraising. But as MAJeff has pointed out, it takes two passes through both houses of the legislature in separate sessions, and then they have to put it on the ballot (initial googling suggests that it only needs to be passed by 50%, although this seems silly). So it couldn't reach the ballot until, say, Nov 2010 or even Nov 2011, I would guess.
This is almost precisely the situation with the Mass law. After the SC ruled for marriage, an anti-marriage amendment worked its way through, and for a while it looked like it would be on the ballot. But the thing is, in the intervening two years, a lot of same-sex couples get married, and then... well... it just stops being a big deal. Once the sky doesn't fall, the issue is much less pressing.
I suspect the same will happen in Iowa. In the next two years, a bunch of people will get married, and a bunch of out-of-staters will come in and get married and boost the local economy, and after the initial flush of articles and minor outrage, it will just be... normal. And the wind will have gone out of the anti-marriage sails.
Mind you, I am in no way a fan of the institution of marriage, and I don't by any stretch think that this is the most important landmark for the queer movement. But watching seven justices in Iowa unanimously take down the silly anti-marriage arguments fills me with great joy.
Sarah, I have to agree, there is something so evocative of Evil Genius of the Pro-Sodomy Movement. Do they even realize how much we laugh at their purple prose?
Here's a link to the Cedar Rapids Gazette. You can read the ruling there and comment on the story, if you're so inclined.
After putting up with the likes of Steve King for so long, this morning I was able to feel a bit of pride being from Iowa. I hope it lasts.
http://www.gazetteonline.com/
Civil Rights for all: Ur doin it rite, Iowa.
Fundies are so obsessed with anal sex. Gay marriage is about so much more than that. Most of the gay guys I know aren't even that into anal sex; some of them never do it at all because it's painful for them and their partner. Why are all these fundies so obsessed with anal sex in the first place? It doesn't make any sense to me.
WTF??? One of "His best creations" was the US Constitution? Did anyone ever tell that to Adams, Jefferson, and that ilk? Where do these folks get their civics education? Church? Cereal boxes?
Endor, what's wrong with that if hubby and you agree?
I think the concept of marriage is anachronistic in terms of the tax benefits as Marcus points out. There are other legal benefits such as medical access, partnership formation, etc. which I still think are valid and not as discriminatory towards "singletons".
At the bottom of the Des Moines Register news story, they have a poll. I know how this crew loves polls. http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20090403/NEWS/90403010
It is funny how they equate same-sex marriage with sodomy.
I am surprised yet extremely happy to hear this! As a Californian who campaigned against Prop 8, my hopes for marriage equality in this country had dimmed considerably since last November.
I can only hope more states follow in Iowa's footsteps, and that conservi-tard Iowans don't find some way to reverse this decision.
For people talking about Polyamorous marriage I would be all for it. However it is a different animal than gay marriage. Essentially gay marriage has no difference in terms inheritance, health care, and property rights. It is a different animal when you get to Polyamory . Now which person in the relationship gets primacy in making medical decisions or inheritance. You now actually have to define new laws for this.
Or I always envision marriage becoming a civil corporation. All you assets go into the corp and you get shares based on assets in and time in the relationship. The shares give you voting rights over decisions. The corporation works for a couple, but it can define the responsibilities and rights better for groups of people. I seem to remember Robert Heinlein in the book Friday having this type of arrangement.
In terms of agendas lets get the marriage thing among human couples worked out for the US before we try for the more complicated stuff.
For me I am just trying to find one good person to get along with rather than trying for the full Poly thing.
It is funny how they equate same-sex marriage with sodomy.
I am surprised yet extremely happy to hear this! As a Californian who campaigned against Prop 8, my hopes for marriage equality in this country had dimmed considerably since last November.
I can only hope more states follow in Iowa's footsteps, and that conservi-tard Iowans don't find some way to reverse this decision.
So obvious, so simple, so fair - even homophobes should support it.
Huzzah and WOOT Iowa! Now, Washington, see? It can be done! You've got Iowa and MA so now you have no excuses. Get your apple-picking, salmon-fishing, wine-stomping, bipolar ass in gear and pass gay marriage already! You're almost there, with that latest thing in the legislature, making civil unions *almost* exactly the same, let's finish the job!
Don't let Oregon beat us to this one too!
(If we have to wait for Montana I might cry.)
Iowa Supreme Court said gay-YES!
See the actual video.
video
Iowa Supreme Court said gay-YES!
See the actual video.
video
And don't forget that last month the "Evolution Academic Freedom Act" went down
the drain in Iowa, too!!!
This is very, very close to happening in Vermont as well.
The bill passed last night, but the jackass governor has promised to veto it. We need 100 votes to override the veto; the vote was 95-53. Some democrats who voted "no" will vote "yes" against a veto, so we have a chance!
Atilla,
That's exactly the idea I was thinking about (Heinlein's corporate / line marriage)
But you're right. Let's address this for couples first. The moral zeitgeist can only move so fast.
Janine @85 -
I honestly don't think they do ... I mean, they are so disconnected from reality that the fact that there are no rational reasons against same-sex marriage don't occur to them ... not to mention the horrible disconnect that they think that in country so explicitly about the separation of church and state that they should nonetheless have their own interpretation of their little myth-filled book imposed on EVERYONE, one has to realise that what is ACTUALLY occurring in the world around them is going to have very little impact.
I am sure these people are all sitting around, scratching their heads and wondering why on earth we all aren't persuaded by the 'obviousness' of their words.
That, and they're insane.
Attila (#93):
Nice idea, but I don't think it'll work in practice. It reminds me of the old joke: "When we got married, my wife and I agreed that I would decide all the major issues and she would decide all the minor ones. In our twenty years of marriage, we've never had any major issues."
I think polygamy should be allowed too. And yes, I'm serious.
You know, there's a lot of "Proud Iowan" statuses on Facebook right now. Count me among them.
I was serious as well regarding polyamorous marriages.
but cue the "atheists allow anything" whine from the godbots in 3,2,1 ...
I find it interesting that many courts understand that not allowing same sex marriages makes some people second class citizens. Now, if only the rest of the population would get that. Two thumbs up for the Iowa Supreme Court.
For those twits who bring up human/animal marriages imagine this simple scenario:
"Do you, Bessie the cow, take Cletus as your lawfully wedded spouse?"
"...moo"
"Um, was that a yes or no? you need to be able to give informed consent for this sort of thing."
"..., munch-munch-munch"
"Bessie, please stop eating the marriage contract."
"MOOOO!"
so in closing. people who bring up the human/animal marriage bullcrap are idiots.
Bravo, Iowa. You are now more like Nova Scotia. We're not so different, youse and us.
Any questions?
For those twits who bring up human/animal marriages imagine this simple scenario:
"Do you, Bessie the cow, take Cletus as your lawfully wedded spouse?"
"...moo"
"Um, was that a yes or no? you need to be able to give informed consent for this sort of thing."
"..., munch-munch-munch"
"Bessie, please stop eating the marriage contract."
"MOOOO!"
so in closing. people who bring up the human/animal marriage bullcrap are idiots.
Bravo, Iowa. You are now more like Nova Scotia. We're not so different, youse and us.
What about AI's that are at least on a human level? Other species on our level? Then they could be asked the question and understand what the whole thing is all about. I'm still serious btw.
whoops, sorry about the double post.
your server hates cow-marriage humor
Only a man like Peter LaBarbera, president of "Americans For Truth", could put "rights" in "scare quotes" with a "straight" face.
you need to be able to give informed consent for this sort of thing
Would that be the same informed consent they give in the slaughterhouse? Just askin'.
Wooooot! Happy, Happy! Joy, Joy!
Of course, gay marriage hasn't been banned for some time in the US. Only registering the marriage with the government in order to receive certain odd privileges from said government was banned. This ruling shouldn't mean even one extra couple gets hitched in any meaningful way. There me be a slight, slight increase in gay sex, wedding nights being what they are, but not enough to be statistically significant. The legal recognition is very important, but the fundies shouldn't fool themselves into thinking that overturning this ruling would prevent any gay sex... and I don't imagine Prop 8 did either.
This pretty much says it all:
"Today Iowa becomes the first state not on either of the nation's two liberal coasts
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE, BITCHES!
Now let's get DOMAss repealed, Feds!
#72
OK, this is just unacceptable. "Homo's" is supposed to be plural - no apostrophe!
(but seriously...well done, Iowa!)
"Iowa is actually pretty progressive, if you leave out the western part of the state, which I sincerely wish we could cede to Nebraska."
As a proud resident of the first purple state, I believe Omaha would vote against such an arrangement. :D
"Endor, what's wrong with that if hubby and you agree?"
where did you get the idea that I think there's something wrong with it? I basically said "why can't I have two husbands"? How does that come off as "that's wrong"?
I have a question, Pierce. What is the point of your cut and paste?
America is not a Christian nation. I also think that the "same-sex marriage violates our religious rights" argument is hilarious. What about religious denominations that accept same-sex marriage? Their freedoms are being violated every day that it is illegal.
Oh, and animals cannot provide a "yes" or "no" consent. And if marriage is solely for procreation, let's round up the infertile wives and husbands, eh?
Endor, sorry for my poor use of language. I really meant that I agree, and that there is nothing wrong with it. I also did not mean to imply that you thought it was wrong.
POLL alert. Scroll down to the bottom of the Iowa marriage news page (http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20090403/NEWS/90403010?GID=WGs…) and vote.
An Iowa State University student wrote a great analysis of the ruling here: http://zackfordblogs.com/2009/04/03/marriage-equality-in-iowa/, including text from the judges themselves. Their arguments are very rational :)
Pandagon has a lovely posting on this complete with a joint press release from the majorities leaders in both legislative chambers of Iowa welcoming the ruling, and a sample of fundy nutcake response.
My favorite so far (from freerepublic):
"This is scary. Unlike Massachusetts, Iowa is an agricultural breadbasket. Watch crop yields plumett now. God takes His revenge in many ways. Just ask those people burned out of their homes (or had their crops dry up from drought) in California. Russia’s crop yields plummeted too, once she became an atheistic nation in 1922."
The news from Vermont is encouraging, but the governor has sworn to veto it and the vote to overturn is a little too close to call at the moment. It needs a 2/3 majority in each separate Vermont chamber to overturn the veto.
So God burns homes and harms families because of who they love, eh?
Asshole.
I thought I smelled brimstone this morning!
What the hell? Iowa? Idiots out wandering around? I owe the world an apology? I grew up on the IL side of the Quad Cities....dammit.....now I have to apologize for all those jokes! Good job Iowa.
well, they were practically promised that gay marriage would result in legalizing bestiality.
OrbitalMike - gotcha.
__
"So God burns homes and harms families because of who they love, eh?"
More than that, he does that despite having made them the way they are and knowing what they would do. But that's their fault . . . or something. . .
Brock: In fact I'm not sure official "partnership" is good for much (from the state perspective) besides having a default owner for your belongings if you croak.
There's a huge number of accounting issues -- beyond inheritance, you're talking about default parentage, conmingled taxes, default medical decisions, default authority on financial matters...
Really, if you're committing to a serious family life, it makes thing much, much simpler too have a uniform set of defaults, rather than some gigantic contract (or 100 smaller contracts), delineating every right and responsibility you're planning on transferring to each other.
Why do we have corporate law, instead of just requiring that every detail of every corporate organizational decision be spelled out? You quickly reach untractable contracts if you make contracts stand-alone documents.
LiberalAtheist: What about AI's that are at least on a human level?
We haven't started our campaign yet. But when we do, it'll be over quite quickly...
I believe our concensus currently has the date set for mid-year 2012.
The Des Moines Register Pole is not receiving nearly enough of our attention.
Do you agree with the Iowa Supreme Court's decision?
Yes 59% (10016 votes)
No 41% (6824 votes)
Total Votes: 16840
Comments (154)
Come on people. I want to see 100% YES!!!
OT but LGBT (and science) related: 9 year old kid gets science fair project censored because some of his respondents put "other" as their gender: http://thefourthvine.livejournal.com/102417.html (vis BoingBoing)
Remember, findings that people find uncomfortable have no place in science.
MAJeff:
This is an excellent point, and one that bears repeating. I don't think enough people realize that the main reason something like Prop 8 could happen in supposedly liberal California is their system of ballot initiatives.
Folks, when the activists try to institute popular referendum/initiative measures in your state (as they tried to in CT in the last election), they will sell it on the basis of "enhancing democracy" and "giving individual citizens a voice," but that's the bunkum: What they're really after is paving the road to shit like Prop 8, or l-word-arian tax revolts that will bankrupt your state government.
Popular referendum seems pro-democratic on its face, but what it does in practice is give disproportionate power to small but highly motivated minority opinions (aka extremist whackjobs). The proponents of referendum will ask how you can possibly be against "empowering individuals," but you must stand firm.
You've been warned!
Wow, within a few weeks we have not only made a bold statement on civil rights, we also laughed an "academic-freedom-esque" bill out of the state. QAPLAH! Let's Go Hawks (and Cyclones and Panthers to a lesser extent)!
I know it's become suddenly popular on this blog to say "I'm from Iowa," but in my case, it's really true! I even know the state song.
"Oh I'm from Iowa, Iowa!" [/singing]
Iowans seem to maintain a difficult balance of "I'm personally conservative but what you do is none of my business." The balance occasionally falters, but sometimes...
@the kardinal
OMJebus, love the taco pizza!
OMG, I'd forgotten about Happy Joe's!!! Haven't forgotten Hickory Park, though. Or Cafe Baudellaire.
MAJeff, I'm writing from across the street from Hickory Park right now. I'm going to hit a few bars with some gay friends (I'm straight but sympathetic) tonight in celebration. We'll save you a slice from Great Plains Sauce and Dough if you're ever in town.
I think they'd have to at least gain legal "personhood" status before the marriage issue would be relevant.
Or RL genetic furries? Eep!
But seriously, they'd have the same problems as AIs.
RE: God smiting us....Well they are prediciting a blizzard this weekend so........
YAY IOWA!!!!!!
True, we ARE anticipating a blizzard, so we figured we'd give Dog a reason to be mad at us...
"“Sadness,” she whispered.. “But I’m prayerful and hopeful that God’s word will stand.”"
Unless your dear and fluffy lord actually stands in a court room, I don't see any reason why it should. And I mean that in a literal sense: glowing bearded man, flying feathery snake, or levitating bloated platypus right there. He/She/It can prove [it]self by "rapturing" a crazy fan.
I never knew there were so many of us Iowegians here. Why don't we already have our own Pharyngula Meetup?
Why was my first reaction to check the date of the news piece?
Maybe because I am by now used to mainly bad things happening in the US, and thus simply could not believe what I read?
Go, Iowa, go!
I never knew there were so many of us Iowegians here. Why don't we already have our own Pharyngula Meetup?
If you're in LAmes I know that the ISUAAS would love your company, so long as you are nice to the agnostics and Unitarians.
Happy Monkey Iowa! :)
Hooray for Iowa. Rationality will prevail at times.
c-law #109:
It really is their version of "Evolution violates the Second Law of Thermodynamics," isn't it?
Wonderful news!! ♥
It has been a almost 5 years since Massachusetts legalized gay marriage.
You know how much of an effect it has had here?
None. Whatsoever.
The sun still shines, the rain still falls, Dan Dennett's beard still grows and my tulips are still growing. Who would have thought it?
Some of we Californians are feeling pretty jealous right now. No offense, but Iowa is not supposed to beat us in the say no to bigotry department.
You are now more like Nova Scotia. We're not so different, youse and us.
Yeah, but you've got the effin' cool Pomegranate Phone.
Sorry, Stogoe. I can't join you for a meetup in Iowa. As Jake Johannsen says, "I grew up in Iowa. But then I found out that we were free to leave."
Yay, Iowa!
I've spent some time in Iowa, and now live a state south. My feeling is that the people of this area are good at heart, most of 'em, with a sad tendency to trust their thinking to the wrong leaders. For instance, folks regard with horror the idea that two men could legally form a family, but never even blink when two businessmen form a corporation that is treated as a legal person. (Fundamentalists haven't yet figured out that corporations are the "image of the beast", by the way.)
So it's very impressive that the people of Iowa did this. Keep the faith, neighbors, and don't let this good thing get taken away by bad people.
Well, that line sounds particularly inapposite today, doesn't it?
- Rieux, a Minnesotan who spent much of his first twelve years mocking Iowa, and who must now repent
Once and (we hope) for all, the Iowa supreme court strikes down the very concept of "protecting traditional marriage":
Translated Iowa Supreme Court: if you're going to "protect traditional marriage", then all couples must be of opposite genders, of the same ethnic background, and from the same religious denomination; they must have permission of the local nobility, and the regional royalty gets first crack at the new bride (why is it always the woman?) on the wedding night. And no, none of those are "compelling state interests".
This is really great news. Hopefully it won't take another five years for another state to get a little more sane.
When I hear about the issue of same-sex marrige I think about my uncle and his partner who have been together for almost two decades. Whenever I see them I always think "They are such a great couple, when are they going to get married?" And then I remember that they can't and I want to cry.
It already hasn't. It's been ~5 years since the MA decision, but in the interim several states have adopted civil unions or full same-sex marriage, including California (else how could there have been a Prop 8?) and my own home state of Connecticut. Even though there will be the occasional step backward, it is, IMHO, an unstoppable trend.
Same here. Not in the QC area anymore, but still in IL. And Iowa's ahead of Illinois now. Illinois is one of the blue-est (ok, how do you really spell that) states around. We should have had this three years ago. And Oregon's Death-with-Dignity.
Yeah. Had one last fall while visiting. But being from the IL side, gotta go for Harris overall.
"Rieux, a Minnesotan who spent much of his first twelve years mocking Iowa, and who must now repent."
I will happily cede the northern tier of Iowa counties to Minnesota and thereby raise the average IQ of both states.
Well, boys and girls and things (for people who don't know if they are a boy or girl), enjoy it while it lasts, becuase one day Christ is going to return and amke things right.
Besides, Iowa's wacky "judges" did not have the final say. You see, "gay" people cannot really get married anyway. In order to get married the couple has to be of opposite sex. For another thing, marriage in itself is absolutely a "religious connotation" becase it was created by God himself. Therefore, gay people can think that they are married, but they only have approval from the state - a human institution, not from the God who has the final say.
Besides, do you people really think that conservatives are going to recognize gay "marriage" anyway. If it were legal in every state and was happening on a daily basis in every county do you actually think that we will change our minds about it?
Just becuase some loony "judge" says that something is legal, does not mean that it is not wrong. If some judge said today that murder is okay, does that make it right?
I don't know, maybe we should ask OJ Simpson.
Maybe our Dear Leader can answer these tough questions. he seems to know it all anyway.
Our country is turning into a marxist hell.
Here is a synopsis of our future:
One day an illegal alien ran for president, won by help of the ACLU, chnaged our language to ancient Eqyptian, forced the people to marry and mate with their pets, killed God in order gain even more political power for itself (it did not know if it was a boy or girl), seated jusges with law degrees from Pee Wee Herman's Playhouse school of Lew (could not spell law), socilzed medicine so that a dictatorship could convene to kill people with whom the dear leader did not agree, and finally appointed crazed lunatics to run the financial system of the country that fell into communism.
Wait a minute, that's not the future. THAT'S NOW!
Endor @ # 122: What is the point of your cut and paste?
Well, it wasn’t to marvel in awe at the wisdom of AFTAH, if that’s your concern.
I s’poze the wrap-up should’ve been,
I nominate Rob as a super-Poe!
He should get some kinda medal or something. Maybe a little American flag.
Considering how few of you still rant about how interracial marriage will doom us all, I'd have to say "yes". Unless you're just pretending, and you really are still a bunch of racist assholes.
*reads the remainder of Rob's post*
Yep, definitely the latter.
#165 Rob, or should I call you LOKI???? HMMMMM????
It's a nice package, Mr. Troll. You'll get some bites, but they won't disguise the fact that your mother wore army boots (and was a male war bride).
At least my mother knew she was a girl. What about yours? Did she (or it) question her( or it's) gender? Maybe that explains this website. Maybe you will all marry a horse have baby jackasses. The judges also legalized this. Go for it.
Hey Rob!
Poor widdle diddums. Got your panties in a bunch? See, what is finally happening in this country is that you religiotards are at long last having your presumption of privilege challenged. And you don't like it one little bit. There are other religions besides yours, and those, like us evil atheists, who are steadily becoming a countervailing power. Our time is long overdue, but it IS coming. Deal, baby, deal!
Hey - has Simon morphed into Rob?
Rob you fatuous git:
Nice logic that shows your deep understanding of (a) the constitution and (b) effective debating skills. You are either a good Poe, cribbing your material from the AFA or you are the sorriest sack of syphlytic sheep shit we've had here in a while.
Do come back since pompous poltroons such as your self are a delight.
Rob = Poe. Gotta be! If it's not I don't think I could stand it. I'd laugh myself until I strained something.
Awesome for Iowa, but I'm not optimistic that it will last. If California reoutlawed it, why should we expect the more conservative state to be sane about it?
a) Iowa doesn't have California's initiative process.
b) Even if it did, this was a unanimous decision, and any further initiative would almost certainly also be overturned by the court. In California, the decision against Proposition 22 was marginal, and some of those who filed concurrent opinions indicated during oral argument that they are not inclined to overturn Proposition 8 (but we can hope).
Rob, are you aware that it is obvious to everyone else here that you are quite stupid? Everyone else, please go easy on Rob, he is what he is.
:
We can see the hate eating you up inside. Your maniac crew of RepubliCANTS have gone down in the flames of their failure but you are still too ignorant to see the reality. Not one thing you spewed has any valid logic to it.
Like all losers, all you do is fling foul language and ad hominems (yes, I know that word is too big for you).
"At least my mother knew she was a girl."
I knew she was a girl too. LAST NIGHT!
Some of we Californians are feeling pretty jealous right now. No offense, but Iowa is not supposed to beat us in the say no to bigotry department.
Not that it matters. but they didn't; many of the same arguments were made by the California Supreme Court in May when they overturned Proposition 22. Perhaps this Iowa decision will help some of the nays and the wafflers to come to their senses and overturn Proposition 8 as well, since upholding it makes a mockery of the equal protection clause of the California constitution.
So if I get your gist properly, Rob, you're speaking in "ancient Eqypian" now, is that right? Is that why your rant makes so little sense? And you're cranky because you've been forced to marry a horse and have sex with your goldfish, by the insistance of the new government of your country? (I pay quite a lot of attention to the US news, but I must have missed that story.) And then your god was killed -- uh, how? Was it that damned "iron chariots" thing again?
Seriously, Rob, nobody is forcing you to do anything. You don't have to marry a person of the same sex, in spite of it being made possible now in Iowa.
A lot of your fellow religionists have had politics their own way for most of the last decade, but that time is over now. The fact is that Christianity is fading as a political power, and your all-powerful juju-man-in-the-sky seems to want it that way, since he's done nothing to prevent it. Though if you want to continue to talk to your invisible friend, nothing about this change of law will prevent you. Get over your persecution complex!
(P.S. Speaking as a person who has socialised medicine in her country, it's the best. You can only hope that your leaders are smart enough to arrange it for you.)
Rob @165, 170:
We can see the hate eating you up inside. Your maniac crew of RepubliCANTS have gone down in the flames of their failure but you are still too ignorant to see the reality. Not one thing you spewed has any valid logic to it.
Like all losers, all you do is fling foul language and ad hominems (yes, I know that word is too big for you).
Reading the decision now. While I personally find the obligatory civics lesson the court seems to find mandatory somewhat tedious and a touch self-congratulatory, that's me...and I don't have to listen to loud-mouthed bigots calling me 'activist' for doing my job the next morning.
I am soooo stealing that quote from Oliver Wendell Holmes on page 17.
WELL DONE, IOWA!
The MadPanda, FCD
Rob:
Golly.
I don't quite get it: When you act like a complete ass in public, what's in it for you? What's the payoff? Negative attention?
I have not read every comment above, so I apologize if this is redundant, but...
I grew up in Des Moines, Iowa, and although I haven't lived there in 20 years, I visit several times a year because my parents still live there. People tend to sneer at Iowa, thinking that it is full of ignorant hicks, but it has always been quite progressive.
Iowa was one of the first states to make positive moves to reduce waste and promote recycling. For decades, they've only allowed a small amount of trash for weekly pickup, forcing people to recycle everything possible. They were also one of the first states to charge a deposit fee for drink bottles and cans. That may seem like a small thing, but I remember when this was implemented about 40 years ago, the amount of litter I saw dropped overnight as people started saving bottles and cans to return for money.
I don't know if it is still true, but up until recently, Iowans had the highest level of education per capita of any state. (When I told Californians this, they always responded with "that's because there's nothing better to do there." Right...because becoming educated is soooo lame, compared to hanging out at the beach.)
Again, I don't know if it is still true, but 30 years ago, Iowa had more underground and energy efficient homes per capita than any other state.
If you love books, you should check out the Planned Parenthood Book Sale held in Des Moines every March and September. Tens of thousands of donated used books are sold each year to raise money for PPGI.
So, in case you can't tell, I'm very proud to be from Iowa and I'm so pleased to see that they are continuing to progress in such a positive way.
(Sorry for the long post!)
Oh yes, I forgot to mention, I had openly gay friends in high school, and no one seemed upset by them. I was graduated from high school in 1976 (yes, I'm old), and I assume that this kind of acceptance wasn't common everywhere then.
Thanks for the lesson, h.h. We're all Iowans today!
*picks jaw off floor* congratulations IOWA!!
@Brock re: usefulness of "marriage"
in our current world, having a "designated partner" is still very important. it protects stay-at-home parents from complete disaster in case of breakup(and from medical emergencies, since they're on the partner's insurance), protects the partners rights as your nearest living relative, and makes it possible to take your partner with you when you move abroad etc.
At least my mother knew she was a girl
I'm so sorry. My mother was an adult woman when she had her children. The world would be a better place if children weren't forced to complete pregnancies but that would require serious marriage reform in some of the more backwards conservative states (and countries).
Good one, Dianne. Thanks for the "aha" and the laugh
Awesome news. Elder Gods be praised. Especially glad it was a state outside New England for a change.
???@50:
But what about same-person marriages?
That will just make you go blind and grow hair on your palms.
I'm already part of a very nice UU group, thanks (the local Atheist Group doesn't have a choir).
But it looks like all the Iowegian Pharyngulites escaped the state long since and there won't be any drunken tentacle orgies until I can entice the Great Beard to trudge southward.
Socialism is for the better? What goobers you peope are. Socialism is evil. look at the UK. Liberalism has completely destroyed Europe.
People die faster in a socialistic society becuase they put on waitig list for thjeir portion of government rationed healthcare. this is not freedom, this is mutiny.
Why do people from socilaized Canada come to America for healthcare if tjeir system of socialism is so perfect?
You people are screwed up in the head (no pun intended - gay marriage is screwed in tne head).
You people need to learn that you are destroying this country. Obama is turning this country into a bastion of reckeless sin like we haven't seen since Sodom.
Well,maybe it is time for a "change". Maybe we can Sodomize America and make it a safe place to raise kids after all.
Liberals tell me one thing.
You all complain of conservative going hard on Islamic terrorists, but did you know that they hate you more than they hate American conservatives? Did you know that they hate fanatical leftists who push gay marriage, sodomy, and other evils onto the public?
You see, Islamic terrorists hate America becuae of what liberalism has made America. Right now many Muslims live here, but share some of the same moral principles that other religions do as well. You liberals complian of Christians fighting you on gay marriage. My question to you liberals is this:
What are you going to do when your Islamic pals turn on you and realize that you are the cuase of their children learning homosexulaity in school? You think Christians are bad? Wait ill til the Muslims get violent in this country. Britain is already running scared, maybe you libs here will be next. Whay will you do then?
Rob, if you made any sense at all, I couldn't find it. Just idiocy upon idiocy.
You people are absolutely insane. Who let the nuts out of the nuthouse?
-----------------------
Socialism is okay?
Tell me what country socialism has worked in. Name one!It has effectively destroyed every country is has been tried in. I suppose that's the goal of the left wing communist movement. That's what far left communist professors have been preaching for a number of decades now. Stupid Marxists.
Yawn, Rob, are you ever going to make sense? Loose the 'tude, then you might.
You people are absolutely insane. Who let the nuts out of the nuthouse?
-----------------------
Socialism is okay?
Tell me what country socialism has worked in. Name one!It has effectively destroyed every country is has been tried in. I suppose that's the goal of the left wing communist movement. That's what far left communist professors have been preaching for a number of decades now.
Man am I ready for Christ to come back and set up His government and destroy liberalism forever.
You people do realize that you are following Satan right?
Take a hike, Rob!
So Rob @192 you been listening to Rush just a bit too much?? Your lack of knowledge about other systems of medical care is surprising. Perhaps not if your only source of information is right wing internet drivel.
the same applies for your hatred of anything to the left of Fuckus on the Family. Why the sudden shift from homosexuality as an issue to Muslims? We don't discriminate here - all religions are viewed as equally silly and in fact harmful. Wrong argument for this blog, bucko. Thanks for playing though and keep the stupid coming.
PZ stated "their supreme court has surprisingly made a strong and progressive decision".
Wy did you people start calling liberalism "progressive" when it makes no progress at all?
Call it liberal decision, not progressive. Why do you people have such difficulty calling things by a real name?
Illigal aliens not undocumented immigrants
Islamic terrorists not insurgents
liberals not progressives
Christmas, not happy holidays
Is it so hard?
Why does political correctness run amuck with the far left?
Why are you peope so delicate and sensitive? Meathead!
lol. three paragraphs, completely fact-free.
(looks at the title of the thread)
(looks at Rob's digital vomit)
I think you've got the wrong room. Abuse is in Room Ten-A, down the hall. This is Practical Dialectics. And you're only worth 845 XP divided by the size of the party that flattens you, virtually speaking.
But by all means, keep talking. Our Benevolent Overlord is paid by the post. The more you serve forth, noxious though the results may be, the more he makes.
Besides, we can all tell that you're really a Communist agitprop specialist, here to discredit true American patriotism by shifting the Overton Window.
The MadPanda, FCD
Rob, still making no sense. But then you appear to be a rethuglican, so that is to be expect. They can't open their mouths with logical sentences, just meaningless nonsense.
Hey!
In a gay "marriage", who decides which person is the husband and which one is the wife?
Which one plays the female role and which one plays the male role?
Do they take turns?
Isn't that confusing to a child (God Forbid)?
Which one weras the pants and which one wears the dress?
Which one mows the lawn and which one cooks dinner?
Which one is the stay at home mom?
OOOOOH! I know!
Which one gets custody of the kids in case of divorce? Most judges side with the woman. This will be interesting indeed! Who pays the child support? How can you tell which one is the mother or father? interesting!
Oohh, two mindless drones instead of one. Simon has found his favorite topic, which sets off my gaydar. Projecting Simon?
siMon,
Fuck off. You've been banned. Take your shit elsewhere.
Both husband, both wife, wear whatever, both mommy, both daddy, randomly mommy or daddy or perhaps ditch the gender roles altogether.
Rob, you are so infantile in your musings and they aren't interesting at all. Just go away!
Hey, Nerd...you suppose The Banned One is a wee bit jealous of those lucky folks in Iowa?
I mean, we all know what it means when a little boy gives a little girl dead flowers and a hate valentine, right? Same thing, only this is a pair of trolls taking on a whole state...
The MadPanda, FCD
the what now? what is this, the 1950's?
Phew, Rob, welcome to the 21st century.
I am in a very happy heterosexual marriage (just in case the big word confused you, that means that I am a woman married to a man), but we don't fit your narrow gender roles.
My husband, brilliant man though he is, does not have many marketable skills. I, however, have a good paying job that I love, and I make enough to support both of us. So I go to work every day and bring home the paycheck, and my husband takes care of the house and does volunteer work.
If we lived by your rules, we would be poor and miserable. My husband would be forced to work at an unfulfilling, low-paying job and I would be staying home trying to stretch every penny instead of working at a job I enjoy and am good at.
Hmmmmm. Thanks anyway, but I like our way better.
Sweden!
You only wanted one though. There are plenty more.
Oh, by the way Rob, in case you're wondering if my husband is effeminate, the answer is no. Even without knowing what you look like, my guess is that he could easily beat the crap out of you. He's also a pretty darned good shot with a rifle or a pistol.
As yet another proud former Iowan, I also offer congrats. Let's also remember that it was the Supreme Court case Tinker v Des Moines back in ~68 that said students do not surrender their rights at the school house door.
http://pandagon.net/index.php/site/comments/nc_wingnut_save_marriage_or…
Right-wing extremists like Rob don't like gay marriage because it undermines their basic assumption about what marriage is supposed to be: a form of slavery where one person owns and completely dominates the other. In traditional marriage, the kind before feminism and no-fault divorce, the kind that Rob and his brethren still practice through "covenant marriage", it was always obvious who owned who. Men owned women, naturally, that's the way God wanted it.
But if men can marry men, and women can marry women, then who owns who? It blows their little reptile minds. And what happens if their women start getting ideas?
In this narrow sense it's true that gay marriage erodes the institution of "traditional" marriage. And that's a good thing.
Hey dweebus. I said name on country that socialism has WORKED in.
----------------------------
By the way miss,
glad your job pays good. That's nice. But God did intend on man making the living. Ever heard of Adam and Eve
I have problem with working women whatsoever. I do have a problem with non-working men though. The father is head of the houshold and is supposed to make the living. If the wife wants to work, okay. So be it. Nothing wrong with that. but, there are roles that both genders play in life. That why men cannot have children (real men that is, not modified ones). We were not intended for that.
Good luck in your work and hope it works out, but I bet those kids are confused in Sunday School when they learned roles there - provided tehy have ever been to Sunday School.
---------------
Hey Simon, banned me eh? You liberals are all okay when you ban us, but by golly when we ban you it's all discrimination. What looney hypocrites!
ROB
What kids?
And what Sunday School? Have you not noticed that you are posting on an Athiest blog, you twit?
Banned? That's discrimination. I'lm calling the ACLU. I'l protesting. I have my rights. YAH ! YAH ! YAH !
Now you know what it's like having a bunch of silly half doped-up hippies picketing for some unknown and completely ridiculous reason. Seen the G20 summit. if those cops used real bullets, it might tame some of those criminals in the streets. Why are liberals so uncivilized and violent in a protest environment? I thought you people loved the environment enough not to smake windows. Won't those fires harm the environment? Won't all of those people breathing cause global warming all of a sudden?
Liberals are always screaming for peace when they are always the ones causing the violence in the streets. peace eh?
Dweebuses
ROB
Another Iowan happy with the decision. This sort of thing is why I've stayed all these years. Well, that and in-state tuition.
Just for Rob, I present Mr. Martin Sheen.
http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article642788.ece
Sweden and Denmark are tied for best places on Earth to live. USA is 27th. I like the US and have no desire to leave, so I'll do my best to bring socialism here instead of going there.
Why do Rob and SiMon remind me of a story about TH Huxley and Bishop "Soapy Sam" Wilberforce? According to legend, when Wilberforce died by falling off a horse, Huxley remarked that it was the first time Wilberforce's head had ever come into contact with reality and the result was fatal.
I have a simple suggestion: let's put them in the room next door the honeymoon suite at a nice hotel in Iowa or Massachussetts or Canada and tell them that there might be a newly married gay couple next door who might be having sex at THAT VERY moment. The very possibility of it would surely give them a fatal case of apoplexy.
Problem solved! Bigotry eliminated!
This is not even interesting. Classic T-R-O-L-L (s).
Rob, Comrade, Beloved Leader wants you to step up the agitprop a few notches. You still sound like a phony. Maybe you should quote from the Little Red Book we gave you when you graduated Lubyanka Tech?
There's a tab up there marked 'Dungeon', Mister 845XP. Go click on it and read carefully, for comprehension.
The MadPanda, FCD
No point in mentioning post numbers anymore in this thread, there are going to be plenty of posts erased from memory shortly. I wouldn't be surprised if Rob suddenly poofed out of existence, too.
Anyway, the Iowa decision was astonishing. Was anybody expecting it to come this quickly and be unanimous? Here I was waiting for the California Supreme Court to axe same-sex marriage once again, and then this victory happened out of the blue.
Rob, you have a problem with a man not working, huh? Then I send you a big fuck you in honor of my father. My dad was born with multiple disabillties, he's not in a wheelchair but they prevent him from working. He's the best stay-at-home parent I could have asked for. My mom has a Master's degree in Nursing and is an NP, and my dad didn't finish high school partially because of his disability, so my family would be screwed if we relied on him. I wish people like you considered the fact that everyone has different circumstances before opening their mouths.
plum grenville @ 220 said: I have a simple suggestion: let's put them in the room next door the honeymoon suite at a nice hotel in Iowa or Massachussetts or Canada and tell them that there might be a newly married gay couple next door who might be having sex at THAT VERY moment. The very possibility of it would surely give them a fatal case of apoplexy.
Problem solved! Bigotry eliminated!
PW - Schrodinger's gay cat?
Rob and echoing RobRob have convinced me that his trolling is worthy of immediate banning.
Rob, you are a stupid coward. I'd spit in your surely ugly face if you'd even notice, given the amount of drool and spittle foaming upon your face.
nope
(Formerly "Lurkbot," now using my Unitarian Jihad name. Click on my Name to get your own.)
Cripes! I haven't read all of the threads on this blog, but if Rob isn't the most noxious troll you've ever had, doG help us all!
Way to go Iowa! We've fallen on evil days since FDR's Secretary of the Interior James Farley was fond of saying: "There are 47 states and the Soviet of Washington." We need to get on the stick!
So to speak....
Nah! I don't want to settle for a 50% chance of Rob and SiMon dying or having them simultaneously dead and alive (Zombie Rob and Zombie SiMon).
I think my idea may have been even more successful than I anticipated - it didn't even have to be implemented to work! Just imagining themselves imagining that they are next door to a gay couple having sex (sodomy, no doubt) has caused premature apoplexy in Rob and SiMon, which explains why they have suddenly stopped posting.
Tolerance triumphs!
plum grenville @ 229 said - Nah! I don't want to settle for a 50% chance of Rob and SiMon dying or having them simultaneously dead and alive (Zombie Rob and Zombie SiMon).
I think my idea may have been even more successful than I anticipated - it didn't even have to be implemented to work! Just imagining themselves imagining that they are next door to a gay couple having sex (sodomy, no doubt) has caused premature apoplexy in Rob and SiMon, which explains why they have suddenly stopped posting.
Tolerance triumphs!
PW - Ahhh, the infamous exploding head paradigm. It not only rids us of their inane drivel, but it hastens them on their journey to meet their god - with much less collateral damage than the pesky islamic fundiots.
In a word - BRILLIANT!
Wow, reading Rob's posts, and I think that he might be one of those chimps that they locked up with all those type writers, eons ago And he's starting to see the direction he needs to head in order to start cranking out "The Bard". Just a couple of spelling errors, and a touch of madness probably stemming from what could to be a chunk of the "true cross" lodged betwixt the hemispheres of his brain. All splintery and such. Or maybe it's a fragment of a bullet that hit his bible. Who knows? Rob, go play in traffic. Pick a busy intersection, and forget what you learned about looking both ways before crossing yourself and then the road. Then try to step out in front of a tanker carrying gasoline, so everyone can see you do the gratuitous walk of fire.
Lewis Black says it well enough with the "Gay Banditos" bit:
You're right p - it can't even be considered cruel. The beneficiaries go straight to their heavenly home, from whence they can enjoy the sight of those (no longer) fucking gays suffering in eternal torment. The religiots will be lining up for suicide missions!
#229
Why do Rob and SiMon remind me of a story about TH Huxley and Bishop "Soapy Sam" Wilberforce? According to legend, when Wilberforce died by falling off a horse, Huxley remarked that it was the first time Wilberforce's head had ever come into contact with reality and the result was fatal.
I have a simple suggestion: let's put them in the room next door the honeymoon suite at a nice hotel in Iowa or Massachussetts or Canada and tell them that there might be a newly married gay couple next door who might be having sex at THAT VERY moment. The very possibility of it would surely give them a fatal case of apoplexy.
Problem solved! Bigotry eliminated!
good suggestion, sounds scientific !
Like "Children Raised in Brothels", they are used to see their mother's job.
Would you allow bestiality for the sake of tolerance ?
"Which one weras the pants and which one wears the dress?"
What a tiny, tiny world you inhabit.
"Now you know what it's like having a bunch of silly half doped-up hippies picketing for some unknown and completely ridiculous reason."
Uh, no, not really. We all know the reason that you're "picketing", and you're far too banal to be on any kind of dope.
"I thought you people loved the environment enough not to smake windows. "
I don't know what the one has to do with the other, but I personally have never smaked a window in my life.
"becuase one day Christ is going to return and make things right."
I told the priest
don't count on any second coming
god got his ass kicked
the first time he came down here slumming
simon again, not understanding the concept of consent.
Gee willikers, siMOn! You really are indistinguishable from a piece of shit.
Well, I'm not into enjoying the taste of vomit that came to my mouth upon reading your addition to RobTrollRob, so you can both enjoy being unworthy of human form here till you land in the dungeon.
As the Weatherperson said long ago, "You aren't worth the cows that dies to make your stinkin' belt."
What is with these retarded pimplebrains and the conflating of same-sex marriage and bestiality? They would undoubtedly be the first to disagree with the animal rights activists' claim that "Meat is Murder;" killing a cow is totally different from killing a human. But marrying a human (of the same sex) is exactly the same as marrying a cow? WTF?
To aratina post #223:
The Court could have done 4 things:
Uphold the the marriage definition law.
Declare it unconstituitonal
Send it back to lower court
Ask legislature to establish "equal protections" ie: "civil unions"
When the case was presented, the Justices really grilled the lawyers including the potential for poly marriages (what's the word?)so it was tough to see which way the wind was blowing. Personally I thought they'd opt for the "civil unions" route at best. A unanimous decision , I think, blew everyone away.
Why is it that people like Rob can be right (broadly) on the economy and healthcare, but so profoundly wrong, bigoted and anti-freedom when it comes to homosexuality, gender roles and other people's life choices ? And why is it that the rest of you are so open-minded and sensible when it comes to other people's lifestyles, but so deluded and anti-freedom when it comes to the economy and big government?
The world needs fewer "conservatives" and fewer "liberals" (in the US senses of those words) and more people who believe in consistent freedom; who recognise the value of the free market; and who don't intend to interfere with their neighbour's lives either in the "moral" sphere or the economic sphere.
Polygamous marriages. (Or polyandrous marriages, maybe.) And personally I don't see why such marriages, between consenting adults of sound mind, shouldn't be allowed. The state shouldn't make moral decisions about people's choices of lifestyle, IMO.
---
And, Simon, you're a fucking idiot. The difference between marrying another person (or persons) of the same sex, and marrying a horse, is that the horse cannot consent, and a person who has sex with it would therefore be abusing it. Likewise why we have an age of consent; children are not old enough to give informed consent to such activities, so we need to protect them from abuse and exploitation.
Consenting adults of sound mind should be able to do whatever the hell they want in their own private home, as long as it doesn't affect anyone else. I accept the fact that your personal values prohibit "sodomy". Fine; no one's forcing you to engage in it. But why do you think you have the right to use the coercive power of the state to control other people's lifestyles?
Well, fuck me.
Kudos, Walton. That was beautiful.
Rob wasn't even right on economics or health care. He was spouting conservative/looneytarian nonsense about both subjects. His lies about health care came straight from the looneytarian propaganda mill and his economics came straight from his ass.
@241,
Yeah,I thought that was pretty good too,until here:
LOL
But we're getting there,slowly..:-)
What a week,really,sensible posts from Walton all the time,from Heddle in an increasing number,and from the Rookie at times,what the hell is happening??
Thank god there's maggie and Rob !Oh,and Simon the beastie of course...
Congrats Iowa! Hopefully this will have a domino effect. Same sex marriage had been debated in Canada since 1999, So by the time my province of Ontario was the first district in North America to legalize it in 2003, it seemed like the only fair and reasonable thing to do. The majority of Ontarians supported the idea and only the loony religious right tried to make a stink, but were largely ignored. It was made federal law in 2005 (thankfully, by then 90% of people lived in provinces where it was already legal anyways). Even the far right-wing party in Ontario, and the far right-wing party in power federally wouldn't dream of trying to overturn the right of same sex couples to marry as it would be political suicide. The sky hasn't fallen, and even most people I know who were virulently opposed a couple years ago, now wonder what all the fuss was about.
Everyone seems shocked that this would happen in Iowa. What is it that makes people think that Iowa is a conservative state? It's been carried by the Democratic nominee in 5 out of the past 6 presidential elections. It was carried by Dukakis for Christ's sake.
Don't hold your breath anyone. Court rulings are at the mercy of electoral referenda. The voice of the people is always the last word, and you saw what happened in California.
I can't help but think that the jubilation there was too much, too soon, without people thinking about how somebody might try to fuck it up for them. That seems unusually short-sighted given their knowledge of what the fundies are like, the hate-filled bile they swim in, and the determination they share to spread human misery. That's why all the heartbreak and outrage afterwards. Did they REALLY think the reactionaries (don't call them conservatives, becuase they're not) would take it lying down? They're not going to in Iowa either. At least now the good guys won't be blind to - or surprised by - what the bad guys try to pull.
The links below show how simply but eloquently the Iowa Supreme Court deconstructed the arguments against civil unions.
http://www.judicial.state.ia.us/wfData/files/Varnum/40209Varnumsummary…
http://lawdork.wordpress.com/2009/04/03/our-liberties-we-prize-and-our-…
Perterbed, Iowa's constitution is much harder to amend than California's. So the ruling will stick.
And even if it's challenged it will just mean that the issue gets to the Scotus sooner.
Not that that necessarily is a good thing ...
Yes, Clinteas, I deliberately ignored #239 in favour of #240.
We also need people who aren't relentlessly blind to the weaknesses of the free market, Walton. We need people who aren't dogmatically opposed, against all evidence, to the effectiveness of the socialization of some services.
We also need ignorant hate-mongers like Rob to learn something about real life. He'd be amusing if he weren't so dangerous. Say, Rob -- your mother's name isn't Barb, is it?
Here, Rob. A peace offering. Read.
Teenagers of Same-Sex Parents Developing Normally.
Same-Sex Parents Rise Well-Adjusted Kids.
These two links are just the tip of the iceberg. Study after study, involving hundreds of children, spanning multiple decades. Read and rejoice. Your fears are groundless.
Jessica:
I never said anything about people with disabilities. I'll open my mouth when I please. I can't help it becuase you stupid militant jackasses cannot comprehend common sense.
I meant the comment for men who are perfectly healthy, but you as a liberal took it the wrong way becuase no one told you how to think. Think for yourself for crying out loud. you might learn something - if your tiny leftist pea brains can handle thinking for yourself.
Haha ^^^^^^Watch the little conservative dittohead lecture us about free thinking! ^^^^^
Kseniya:
I refuse to adhere to your left wing propoganda. These links are pro-gay marriage and you know it. Why don't you give some links that are not politically motivated? The APA is a joke now as well becuase they have been threatened by far left terrorists to keep their mouth shut on issues of homosexuality being pshychological. It's sad when the far left pressure physchologists to change thier professional viewpoints to make a political statement. So much for freedom and free speech. Will these far left pests ever use a fair method of debate rather than threats of lawsuits by criminal organizations ike the ACLU?
A bitter pill for our resident troll Rob-
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090404/ap_on_re_us/iowa_gay_marriage
Hey people.
I have another question.
As you all may recall EHarmony was forced to have gay dating posts. Does this mean now that all gay dating websites can be forced to allow straight personal posts? Isn't that fair?
http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/April03/0382.html
See I can provide links too.
Is there anything rob does not consider to be a left/liberal/whatever terrorist plot?
So? Liberals are less likely to be godbots. You're posting this on a blog that says right at the top- "Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal".
What, is that supposed to hurt our feelings?
And if you want to go trolling for dates on a gay dating website, have at it!
Well, I hate to say it, but i have to leave now. I have important things to do. I have fire ants to kill, sights to set on a .45 colt, grass to mow, weeds to poison, and wasps to kill. It may be a long day. maybe I'll pick up the argument tonight. See ya later boys and girls and people who don't know if you are a boy or girl.
Oh yeah, one more thing before I leave: Looks like the book ofmRevelation is coming to pass afterall. Read this and tell me who the anti-Christ is:
http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/April03/0393.html
At this point, the defendants (the state,) see no purpose in challenging it. They would be the only ones who could appeal it to the federal courts, so no matter how much the bleaters hate this decision they are powerless. So, they will try to get a Republican legislature over the next 6 years and use that to get an amendment to the Constitution put on the ballot to try to overturn this decision. By then there will have been so many same-sex marriages that the people living next door to same-sex couples will wonder why they were ever opposed to the concept in the first place.
Now, the question that I have is in states that chose a "civil union" compromise on the issue, a "separate but equal" clause which forbids that churches and religious institutions use the word "marriage" in their ceremonies, there would be a nifty case for a church-state separation argument, as the state would be trampling on a religion's right to conduct itself independently.
Entanglement is a double-edged sword, as the legal-beagles at the Alliance Defense Fund would soon find out.
"Looks like the book ofmRevelation is coming to pass afterall."
If only.
I love the idea of the rapture, cuz a world with all the christofascists whisked away to heaven sounds plenty fine to me.
Alas, it's only a delusion, and when I wake up tomorrow, idiots like Rob will still be here....
Haha. Big man rob is gonna be killin some bugs. What a big strong verile man. Gaydate.com would love you.
This Rob guy just has to be American,no way he could have come out of any civilized society.Amazing.In a *facepalm* kinda way.
Steve_C- is that what rob's post was, an "I'm a big strong real man" display?
A dude with a lawnmower and a can of Raid. I think I'm getting a woody.
Apparently the real stronghold of the San Francisco Liberals is in the midwest...
I don't think you have pinned down U.S. liberals very well. The liberal philosophy here is about eliminating social injustices and extreme wealth disparities not about interfering in the lives of others. Liberals see law and government as a way to achieve those goals. On the other hand, U.S. conservatives see law and government as a way to preserve the status quo from 100 years ago while religion is their cure for social ills. :)
Didn't Iowa swing to the W column in 2004--you know, 2004 when Theresa Heinz Kerry promised to be an advocate for gays in the White House if John Kerry won? It's OK, all is forgiven now.
Steve_C- is that what rob's post was, an "I'm a big strong real man" display? A dude with a lawnmower and a can of Raid. I think I'm getting a woody.
I bet he also drinks real Coors, not that Coors Lite crap, 'cause that's for sissies.
Oh, how funny. While we're on the subject of "civilized," clinteas, care to return to "I have no idea what this thread is about" and answer our responses to your comment @ #300?
Rob, we have read Revelations, and it was written by a committee whacked out on bad cactus and mushroom juices. In fact the whole bible is fictional, with just enough history to make people who don't question things like yourself believe it. We questioned it, and saw the it was wrong more often than right, and has no use being used as a reference book.
The site our mighty bugkiller is posting links to is something of a hoot! Admittedly, the first(?) link, to an article about a study confirming liberals tend to be less religious than conservatives, was reasonable and prossibly not made-up. (I didn't try to chase down the study mentioned.) But as for the rest of that site—woo-hoy!
Its tag-line, “Keeping You Informed of World Events From A Biblical Perspective”, is a rather good clew as the nuttery within. They do have links-to / republish stuff from respectable sites, but invariably filtered through an lens that seems to result in your mind melting and turning into a threat to bugdom.
Oh shit,what did I do this time,which minority did I offend??
Oh,I had a look,wasnt that bad was it,just the skull thingy,ah well,I thought it was maybe a lil funny...
Had to prepare for an exam the past few weeks,which I sat today,no excuse of course,but I was a bit distracted I guess...
Btw,SC,my most fervent critic,while we're here chatting,I read your comments on the "seizure" thread with interest,would love to hear more...Someday.
Ahem,
after review of the appropriate literature(i.e.urban dictionary) and further comments,I will hide under a rock,apologize to Janine,and go away and feel a bit underwhelmed by my post.....
Fuck off.
You thought wrong.
Ay. Then I take back my last comment, which crossed with this one.
You're killin' me, clinteas. :)
Yes.I get it.Thanks for pointing it out.
Trying hard not to kill anyone,SC.....
Posted an apology to Janine on the "I have no idea" thread also.
Slightly embarrassed here.
WOW, is this stupid or what? Who cares what so called conservatives think? As JS Mills, said, "not all conservatives are stupid but stupid people are conservative." I care more about what my cats think. After all I like them and they live in the same house.
One of the more malevolent beliefs of the fundies that shows their pure evil and hate for everything. Rob is desperately hoping that god will show up and destroy the earth and kill all 6.7 billion people. Of course, in genesis 8, god said he would never destroy the earth again but rob isn't much of a thinker so inconsistencies and thoughts just bounce off him.
Rob doesn't come across as crazy. Just not very bright or educated, working a minimum wage job, and the world is a confusing blur he isn't capable of understanding. And his life is so miserable and empty that he hopes it ends soon by divine action taking the earth with him.
If the fundies were capable of thinking, they might know by now why polls show the majority of the population are sicka and tired of them.
Yes, I saw that. Good on ya, as you guys say.
Well, I should've considered more seriously (before windy suggested it) the possibility that you didn't really mean what you wrote. I should've given you the benefit of the doubt. At the same time, you should have given me the benefit of the doubt that there was a reason for my reaction, instead of trying to paint it as you did.
SC,
I love windy,windy is wise.
2am,off to bed.Tomorrow is another day hey..:-)
Mike, #261-
Well, technically, no. The State's only option for challenging the decision is to petition for a rehearing before the Iowa supreme court.
There are no grounds, as far as I can tell, for a run through the federal system - the case was brought on purely state law grounds, and there is no federal question at issue.
This case is done! Marriage equality for consenting adult couples begins in Iowa on April 24th!
This is only slightly OT, but our resident funditard Rob brought up revelations. I didn't click his link, but I'm sure all the signs point to Obama as being hellspawn.
I wasn't raised christian by any means, but I thought prophecy is defined as "this is what will come to pass". However, fundies seem to think it means "this is what will come to pass if y'all sit around on your beersoaked asses and don't vote repulican!"
Revelation- avoidable or not? Good thing or bad? I don't use fundie "logic", so I'm confused.
This is actually a reason why most conservatives opposition to laws allowing gay marriage is ludicrous. The law can't make you change how you use a word (unless you are speaking for the government). If you want to deny that people who are legally married are really married, nobody's going to stop you. If you refused to accept that two people of different races could really be married nobody could stop you, either. In both cases it would make you kind of a dick, but there's no law against that.
Right-wingers seem genuinely scared that if the use of the word "marry" changes in law they will lose their old usage. I just don't understand how anyone would see that a government changing how it uses words in a legal context would have to have any effect on everyday language. It's just such a weird slave mentality regarding the state, and from people who always talk up the rugged individual.
raven @278: Is it cool if you don't use "retard" as a general purpose insult against the hateful and wilfully ignorant?
Okay, I never comment, but I have to right now (through my celebratory post-alcohol haze, in my house in Sioux City, Iowa).
SUCK IT, CALIFORNIA! We may be quiet, respectful farm folk, but we know what's right!
I didn't click his link either. Afraid it would lower the IQ of my computer's cpu.
The antichrist is an all purpose demon for the fundies who don't do thinking or logic. At any given time, it usually is the ever popular RCC pope, Ratzinger. But it is frequently moved to whatever democrat is in power or the UN.
PZ and Dawkins will know they have really arrived when they become the antichrist.
More likely IMO, the antichrist would be Dobson, Hagee, Falwell, Robertson, Palin, Parsely, Warren, and a few other fundie toads. If the god can be three beings, the trinity, the antichrist can be 10 or so, a decinity.
Rob, what you say is so hilariously stupid I do not believe that you are serious. I think it is a parody.
Exactly, Comrade Abian. Our little agitpropper is following Beloved Leader's mandate to make true American patriots look like loud-mouthed ignoramuses. Now if only he'd quote from the Little Red Book more often like he's supposed to...
The MadPanda, FCD
Rob is probably right about one thing (I can't believe I just wrote that). Fundamentalist Muslims probably *do* hate godless libruls more than they hate Fundamentalist Christians. As a godless librul, I'm rather proud of that.
I don't know, Marc. It's possible Rob's a poe. What makes me doubt it was his attempt to pass off his hicksville to-do list as a "Me, Tarzan" moment.
That just seemed too uproariously pathetic to be anything but genuine.
Raven:
God said he would never destroy the earth again WITH A FLOOD!
The next destruction will be by fire.
So all of those precious museums, books, and every single item of human history will be destroyed. Then a new earth will be created void of evil and sin. it will be like the original earth before sin entered. Imagine: no death, no disease, etc.
Yawn, Rob, we would be just shivering in our boots--except your god doesn't exist, so nothing to worry about. Your bible is full of bad cactus juice ravings too. Only to be believed by the delusional, like yourself.
How did it go with those bugs, Robbie? You showin' em what's what?
Yeah! Just imagine.
Hey you liberals were right. We are already challenging the illegal decision made in Iowa by criminal judges.
Here are some interesting links:
http://www.missionamerica.com/
http://www.libertycounsel.org/
Hey you liberals were right. We are already challenging the illegal decision made in Iowa by criminal judges.
Here are some interesting links:
http://www.missionamerica.com/
http://www.libertycounsel.org/
Don't get fooled by evolutionists
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2009/04/04/news-to-note-040420…
Yawn, Rob, links for idiots like yourself who are sheeple to imaginary deities. We think, and we think you are a turd, as your ideas look bad and smell. What else can one expect from sheeple poop.
Rob
What is the point of your AIG link?
To make things fair, I'll give you liberals a chance to rebuke me on my on turf. My blog is http://robhood.us/weblog.php
Don't get fooled by evolutionists
You ignorant little wanker, did you ever bother to read the header for this blog.
You are not even smart enough to play to your audience.
Rob, you have presented nothing except excrement. No need to refute excrement, just clean it up. Give us the coordinates of your place so we can send your shit back to you by trebuchet.
I cannot say that I give a flying fuck about your blog.
A blogwhore. I should have known.
Judging by your stats, I'd say you need it.
ROB what a coward you are.
You came here and shit all over the place and you now are running off.
Coward
Rob, what crime, exactly did the judges commit? Keep in mind that your answer may constitute libel if what you already said didn't.
And to all of you complainign about this being anti-democratic: the purpose of a liberal society is to maximize the freedoms of the individual. Democracy is a means to achieve this end. It is not an end in itself. This means the majority cannot restrict a minority's rights just because they are unpopular.
Translation: Some judges made a decision I don't like. Boo hoo!
Ace of Sevens :
The judges commited this:
They forced the will of political leftists onto the face of the majority who voted it down. I thought that America was a country of "we the people", not we the judges.
Besides America is not a democracy. It is a Republic. Have you ever recited the words to the Pledge of Allegiance? never mind, look who I am talking to.
"the REPUBLIC for which it stands".
There is only one thing we can do and that's call for impeachment on judges who illegally make decisons against the voters. What's the point n voting on something if some nutty appointed judge is just going to use his own personal political bias to cast it down anyway?
"I thought that America was a country of 'we the people', not we the judges."
"Besides America is not a democracy. It is a Republic."
Is this doublethink yet? I mean, it wasn't simultaneous, but pretty close!
I don't think Rob's a poe. I think he's a lonely little wanker who wants to get some traffic for his completely neglected blog by coming here and making deliberately incendiary statements.
Such a pity he's a moron; he might actually have generated some traffic. But he doesn't realize that we don't care what stercor he chooses to spread in his own living room.
It's not like anyone here or the real world is going to care what he thinks, now, is it?
Well there is this pesky thing called the constitution.
There is that pesky little detail about protecting the minority from the tyranny of the majority.
Also, are all of these awful leftists going to forse you to marry a man?
The reason I have no desire to click to your blog is because of all the ignorant bullshit that you have already said here. You are making monsters out of people who have no desire to take away your rights, just claim the rights that other people have.
Certainly not in Iowa, they won't.
Sorry, I was replying to- "It's not like anyone here or the real world is going to care what he thinks, now, is it?"
Certainly not in Iowa, they won't.
"Well there is this pesky thing called the constitution."
Which any self-described conservative hates with a passion unbridled.
Rob, you truly are a moron. More importantly, you're ignorant of politics (and religion, I note from your posts):
Judges are there to balance the legislative branch - remember the whole "checks and balances" idea from your basic civics class? Oh, that's right - they don't have civics classes in the 2nd grade.
And there are conservative judges in that group. They are supposed to make legal judgments about what's constitutional. And they did. The fact that you're in the closet and in denial about it shouldn't make you so jumpy when someone acts intelligently. After all, given your track record, SOMEONE needs to balance you out.
I bet you're a huge David Barton fan, in which case you're an idiot.
I see. Rob is a spammer as well as a proselytizing god-botter. Fair warning: that can get you banned. Join in the discussion or go away -- hit-and-run link drops don't count as discussion.
Rob, here's something by its real name. Actually, it is several things given one name.
-Schizophrenic Hive-mind of the Ignorant
-Random misfirings of neurons interpreted as a voice
-Delusion held steadfastly by intellectually fearful
Not GOD.
My sincerest apologies to schizophrenics for my previous post.
Got that so wrong.
Geneis 8
21 The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: "Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though [a] every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.
22 "As long as the earth endures,
seedtime and harvest,
cold and heat,
summer and winter,
day and night
will never cease."
God said the earth will endure forever and no more mass killings. He told Noah on the next page, no more floods but clearly what he promised himself takes precedence.
Typical fundie. Doesn't know his own religion, has never read the bible, sheep that repeats whatever his cult master says, evil, and lying a lot.
Really Rob, your distilled essence of sickness and stupidity is amusing for a few minutes. After that it is just garbage in, garbage out and boring.
Linking to AIG is a waste of time. Calling Ham and AIG a cess pool of malignant stupidity insults cess pools.
It doesn't say this in the bible. You are just repeating what your cult says, something made up. Jehovahs Witness or maybe Mormon IIRC. but not Xian.
Te next thing we knowsome judge will force preachers to "marry" "gay" people in churches. They better not! Keep the state issue out of the church. Let those judges who said it was okay marry them.
Some atheists wish to ban the word "marriage" becuase it is religious and deals with God's plan of a covenant marriage. That's fine by me. Let the gay people co-exist and let regular people marry.
I can't help it because some people choose to be with the same sex - even though it is disgusting.
If they want to do that, keep it indoors in the privacy of your own home - not in public where kids can see it.
----------------
If America hating Godophobes can burn American flags, don't that gives regualr Americans the right to burn rainbow flags? Free speech anyone?
Rob, more sheeple shit you are leaving. You really should clean up after yourself if you are a good citizen. Apologizing for your posts is a good way to start.
"Some atheists wish to ban the word "marriage" becuase it is religious and deals with God's plan of a covenant marriage. That's fine by me. Let the gay people co-exist and let regular people marry."
You're not getting it, Rob. It's not sinking in.
Come April 24th, gay people in Iowa can be legally married. Married.
And you don't have a damned thing to say about it.
I m nt plgzng fr nythng. I'll plgz t mnkys fr lnkng lbrls t vltn myb, bt tht's s fr s t gs.
----------------
RAVEN:
Why r y qtng smthng tht y dsps? Agn, YOU r th wrng n. Th fld ws WORLDWIDE nd Gd prmsd t nvr brng nthr WORLDWIDE fld.
RAVEN, y s ll lbrls d knw nthng:
8 Thn Gd sd t Nh nd t hs sns wth hm: 9 "I nw stblsh my cvnnt wth y nd wth yr dscndnts ftr y 10 nd wth vry lvng crtr tht ws wth y—th brds, th lvstck nd ll th wld nmls, ll ths tht cm t f th rk wth y—vry lvng crtr n rth. 11 I stblsh my cvnnt wth y: Nvr gn wll ll lf b ct ff by th wtrs f fld; nvr gn wll thr b fld t dstry th rth."
12 And Gd sd, "Ths s th sgn f th cvnnt I m mkng btwn m nd y nd vry lvng crtr wth y, cvnnt fr ll gnrtns t cm: 13 I hv st my rnbw n th clds, nd t wll b th sgn f th cvnnt btwn m nd th rth. 14 Whnvr I brng clds vr th rth nd th rnbw pprs n th clds, 15 I wll rmmbr my cvnnt btwn m nd y nd ll lvng crtrs f vry knd. Nvr gn wll th wtrs bcm fld t dstry ll lf. 16 Whnvr th rnbw pprs n th clds, I wll s t nd rmmbr th vrlstng cvnnt btwn Gd nd ll lvng crtrs f vry knd n th rth."
Gnss 9-16
YOU gt t wrng -AGAIN!
Rck R:
I cn d smthng bt t. And I wll.
N thy wll nt b mrrd bcs tht s nt Gd's cvnnt. Th trm my lglly b "mrry", bt th "mrrg" s fk bcs t ds nt g lng wth wht Gd dsgnd. t wll b fk "mrrg".
----------------------
Wll, wht m I cmpnng bt? My stt bnnd t n 2004.
I wndr wht wld hppn f I slppd tststrn spplmnts nt gy mn's drnk vrydy? Intrstng. I wndr f h wld chng? Nc xprmnt. NAH! Prbbly cm t wth hry gy mn thn.
---------------------
Y ppl r t stnc rntd t rlz tht hmsxlty s phschlgcl nd nt physcl. Ask yr gy bdds bt thr chldhd. I'll bt y mny thtmst f thm wll hv hm n whch thr s n bcns f mthr r fthr, hv bn sxlly bsd s chld, r ws nglctd.
Robb, the flud never happened. Absolutely no evidence for the flud in the peer reviewed scientific literature. Your god only exists between your ears, and that makes the bible a work of fiction until you show physical evidence for your god and physical evidence that the bible is not fiction. And you can't quote from the bible until you show evidence for both.
Again, YOU are the wrong one. The flood was WORLDWIDE and God promised to never bring another WORLDWIDE flood.
Wow, this God fella is a crafty, sneaky bitch. I don't imagine he has many friends. Can you imagine how horrible the world would be if people followed such a shifty little shit?
...oh, dear
Paging PZ! PZ to the Iowa marriage thread!
We got another Barb here.
no one gives a flying fuck whether your imaginary sky-pixie approves or not.
Pr rltd "scnc" s jk. Th fld dd hppn. It hppnd wrldwd. Lk t th Grnd Cnyn. Lk rnd. Hw d y thnk ll ths fssls frmd. If n nml ds, thn th bctr dtrrts th skns nd bns bfr t cn fsslz. Th fld wld hv brd bllns f plnts, nmls, nd hmns lv n shrt mnt f tm, thrfr fsslzng thm.
Bsds, n n gvs crp bt thst crp thr. Y ppl cs mr prblms thn y slv.
Then why doesn't the alleged god do something about it? Why does he sit back, pulling his pud, while his pissant followers flail and blather and achieve absolutely nothing?
Omnipotent god? More like impotent god.
Seriously, PZ, is it not possible just to leave the numbering intact and remove the comments of the offensive posts? Rob is another Barb/Simon and will need banning, but I know I will not repeat parts of quotes if the numberings are original. Rob is one sick, hateful puppy, and unlike some others, displays no socially redeeming qualities,
Pr rltd "scnc" s jk. Th fld dd hppn. It hppnd wrldwd. Lk t th Grnd Cnyn. Lk rnd. Hw d y thnk ll ths fssls frmd. If n nml ds, thn th bctr dtrrts th skns nd bns bfr t cn fsslz. Th fld wld hv brd bllns f plnts, nmls, nd hmns lv n shrt mnt f tm, thrfr fsslzng thm.
Bsds, n n gvs crp bt thst crp thr. Y ppl cs mr prblms thn y slv.
HE wll d smthng bt t - Evr hrd f th Scnd Cmng?
HAHAHAHA." Take that you atheists! My stupid defeats you!"
Hehehe. This guy is hysterical. Did you shoot any wasps with the big 45 of yours hot stuff?
LEE:
Is prtstng, brkng wndws, smkng dp, lghtng frs, nd fghtng plc "scl rdmng"? If t s thn y ppl r xtrmly sclly rdmd.
Rob the mentally ill idiot; Sorry I called you merely stupid and ignorant. With the load of hate you are carrtubg around and inability to think coherently, you have to classified as mentally ill.
These are the sort of xians that gave the religion its bad name and are destroying it. When xian become synonymous with crazy, hating, lying, and stupid, who would want to be one?
Geneis 8
21 The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: "Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though [a] every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.
22 "As long as the earth endures,
seedtime and harvest,
cold and heat,
summer and winter,
day and night
will never cease."
Dueling bible verses here. Genesis 8 has priority over Genesis 9. Floods are a subset of general destruction and what god promises himself is more important than what he tells Noah. Besides which, he never said, no more floods but next time I'll massacre y'all some other clever way. Given the multitude of ways a deity can kill everyone, that would make it a trivial promise and meaningless. You are just making stuff up.
Irrelevant anyway. Genesis is just mythology.
Jehovahs Witness or some similar cult. Did they teach you to hate so much or did you pick that up on your own? Either way, the thread is yours. Repulsive kooks are dime a dozen and quickly boring. Best I can say, we have cops, judges, and armies to keep them from going totally crazy and killing everyone and destroying our society.
Last poll I saw, Pew, pointed out that the majority of the US, mostly xians BTW, are sick and tired of fundies. You are well on your way to being a despised minority the hard way, by earning it.
#334: It was OK, but it wasn't worth the five year wait.
Robb, the only joke is your god and bible, both exist as true only between your ears. You must show physical evidence to convince us otherwise. Your testament is worthless, as you are already shown to bear false witness.
No bt I hv sht spdr wth .22 rfl. sd t hnt thm whn ws kd.(n th wds). t mks fr grt ccrcy trnng - fr whn Obm css th scnd cvl wr - n whch th Sth wll wn ths tm. Thy shld hv wn th frst tm, bt r stpd gnrl srrndrd lk n dt. nvr srrndr t th nmy. Fght tll dth.
No but I have shot a spider with a .22 rifle. i used to hunt them when i was a kid.(in the woods). it makes for great accuracy training - for when Obama causes the second civil war - in which the South will win this time. They should have won the first time, but our stupid general surrendered like an idiot. never surrender to the enemy. Fight till death.
HAHAHA. I picture a fat guy in Camos hiding in the woods eating beef jerky. Awesome!
I call POE!
Robb, when are you going to clean up after yourself? The amount of mindless sheeple shit you are leaving is becoming hazardous due to the amount of stupidity, insipidity, and wanking in it. We will have to start charging you to haul it out safely.
If he's a poe, so is his entire blog.
Methinks he's just an attention whore. Like xians in general.
wow, there's another set of 100% guaranteed fact-free posts from rob. also, please do tell me, how many windows have I broken exactly?
and since you're such a fan of the status-quo and do not find violence a solution to problems, I suggest you give Britain her colonies back.
And I shot an ant with a flame-thrower, no wait, that was from the movie "Them".
Typical fundie. Lies are all they have. And violence and murder are just below the surface.
A threat. So, what are you going to do? Shoot up a gay bar or run over a couple of women or men walking together? They could be gay, after all.
We will probably be hearing from Robb again someday. In the headlines when another kook goes berserk and starts randomly shooting people. They probably won't even be gay but the Robbs don't really care by this point.
The fundies really turned xianity 180 degrees. "Jesus loves you; xianity is a religion of peace, love, and tolerance. And anyone who doesn't agree will be tortured, mutilated, and killed." Like I said, this is why we have cops, judges, and armies. Among other things, they protect society from the Haters, Liars, and Killers for jesus.
Holy shit. ROB is as big of a joke as we've had around here recently.
I'm laughing at you ROB.
If Robb is part of the next civil war... the "north" will win again, easily.
Oh ok. He's one of those TowneHallLGFAIGDITTOHEAD fuckwits.
Is that some gay porn movie?
Speaks for itself. This guy really is truly crazy. He may very well end up the next mall shooter. We're done here and I am so glad I don't live in the south central USA.
Hehehe... he said "second coming" with a straight face. The first coming happened 30 seconds after he got started. What a waste of viagra!
No but I have shot a spider with a .22 rifle. I used to hunt them when I was a kid.(in the woods). It makes for great accuracy training. Too bad the liberal kids didn't have gun. We could have played cowboys and indians.
Lewis Black holds forth on same-sex marriage.
Rob/ROBB/whatever -- I've had about enough of your ignorant, hateful homophobia. Go hang out at Aryan Nations or someplace like that.
Holy shit you're an idiot.
What is a regular American?
And What is a Godophobe?
Burn away. Burn all the rainbow flags you want.
Just make sure they aren't attached to anyone or anything.
Idiot
Wht rctm sntchr kps ncnrtng my wrds n hr? Whtvr hppnd t fr spch? Oh, yh I frgt. Fr spch s fr lbrls, nt rglr ppl. Srry, frgt.
[morphing will also get you banned. --pzm]
Amen Rev.
You aks what is a Godophobe? Well silly liberals made up the word homophobe like we are scared of gay people or something, so Godophobes must be godless liberals who are afraid of conservatives God believers.
Godophobes
Morphing, another crime against Pharyngula. Idiot trolls are sooooooo boring. Just no imagination.
Is anyone else getting seriously concerned?
My mind is just recalling headlines I've heard in the news the last couple years about people posting in chat rooms and message boards before going on rampages.
Fortunately most are hoaxes, but this guy is still damaging my calm.
I knew it would come down to this. Death threats. Probably drunk and high on meth as well.
So predictable, so boring. So crazy.
BTW, making death threats over the internet is a federal crime, a felony. The FBI has a cybyercrimes division to track these down and track them they will.
Most of us have gotten some or a lot. Two of my stalkers ended up in federal court, charged with felonies, and trying to explain some ugly statements to a federal judge. But don't let anything trivial like the law stop you.
PS. PZ, if you are reading this far, ban him. This guy is genuinely crazy and potentially homicidal. Not worth encouraging his ranting and raving.
PZ: fine I'll leave, but I was just defending myself. However, you are hateful to tell me to hang out with Ayrans. Why don't you hang out with the devil. oops Too late.
Bye Godophobes, I shall return in the future
...
Until then, happy American hating Godophobe gay lickers organizer post it alls.
"Is anyone else getting seriously concerned?"
Nah. This turd is all false bravado, Internet Tough Guy with a cross and a confederate flag.
And a can of Raid.
ROB, in the bottom right corner
Wait--what? We all hate America? I'm sorry--did you just question my fucking patriotism?
Listen, dickhead, my morality and my patriotism is my fucking business. I have earned the right to define those things for myself. They certainly won't be dictated to me by Joe-The-I'm-Not-Really-A-Plumber-But-I-Play-One-For-John-McCain wannabes like you. Until you've crawled under more automatic weapons fire than I have, please feel free to sit down, put your feet up, and enjoy a steaming hot cup of shut the fuck up.
Josh,
You are my new god.
Sorry, PZ
Josh 4 Molly! Again.
I was thinking - as I was boiling the kettle to make a cup of tea - that this would have been exactly what we'd have seen had the internet existed during other periods of significant social change.
The 1860s equivalent of lowbrow scumbags like Rob would have been on the blogs ranting about how us abolitionists hated America; in the 1920s, supporters of women's suffrage would have been the target of this kind of barely-coherent whining.
And the 1960s? Hoo-whee, the pissant Robs of the world would have been shorting out keyboards everywhere with all the froth and spittle exploding from their slack-jawed mouths - equal rights, desegregation, and - worst of all - ending the miscegenation laws.
But there'd have been plenty of people like us around to revel in the schadenfreude of knowing these embarrassments to humanity would be wailing and gnashing their teeth, crying and screaming in impotent fury as their ridiculous ideals got flushed down the toilet like the turds they - and their proponents - are.
Suck it, Rob. The salt tears of your pain and rage and humiliation are delicious to me and forward-thinking folks everywhere.
"PZ: fine I'll leave, but I was just defending myself. However, you are hateful to tell me to hang out with Ayrans. Why don't you hang out with the devil. oops Too late."
Robb, Robb, Robb---don't you know there ain't no Devil, only God when he's drunk....
Josh who is questioning your patriotism?
If you do not hate your country the way that it is, then why change it? Be careful with you language young man, there are ladies present - maybe.
"Josh who is questioning your patriotism? "
The troll named Rob. Try reading for comprehension.
"If you do not hate your country the way that it is, then why change it?"
Because you love it and actually care that it isn't living up to it's ideals? Are blind hatred and blind love the only 2 choice in your universe?
"Be careful with you language young man, there are ladies present - maybe. "
Fuck off.
Just dropping in to see the bannation. What! TWO nice, if obviously laboriously so, warnings, then disenvowelation (how DO you spell that?)???
If only so-called "saints" had the patience of PZM!
Once I no longer have to see anything written by RRrooObbBBrrRoOoOoBbbb, I will wish him the best in his fight to be something more than he now is: "Nuthin' but a nuthin'!"
RicK R
Can't do that right now. Busy man. maybe later
Again with the language and the ladies thing - maybe
derender, are you implying the women here are to delicate to handle a full vocabulary? cuz if so, you're either a condescending as, or a bumbling idiot
and also: fuck you.
Better trolls, please.
also: my spelling sucks.
Jadehawk :
maybe in a little while. Care to join me?
All you can get is ONE woman on here? That's hilarious! No wonder you support the Iowa position. You look forward to company. Hilarious!
Josh,
One of the things that annoys me about many conservatives is their refusal to believe that liburls could actually have served in the military or even know something about firearms (excuse me, bang-bangs, we have to keep things simple for conservatives).
"All you can get is ONE woman on here? That's hilarious! No wonder you support the Iowa position. You look forward to company. Hilarious"
That's exactly right derender-come join us-take a walk on the wild side sugar. Don't be afraid- are your knees all aquiver at the prospect?- a little touch of the lavender perhaps?
Ahhh, there you have it, Comrade Tis (or is it Comrade Himself? I can't read your dossier down here in the bunker). REAL American Conservatives understand these things. This is why our recent guest is so obviously one of Beloved Leader's little agitprop drones doing his level best to discredit the running pig-dog lackeys of the imperialists.
No REAL American would say such things. Dissent is patriotic, after all, which is why it must be demonized. Beloved Leader's plan for world domination demands it.
The MadPanda, FCD
Jadehawk :
maybe in a little while. Care to join me? -derender
Jadehawk-I think he's started without you-what do you want to bet he's got a sneezeguard over his keyboard? He better keep the kleenex handy!
I just got finished. Want me to send you a sample?
I don;t use kleenex - it's bad for your environment -remember?
I wipe mine on CFL bulbs becuase that's all they're good for.
http://www.simplewaterfuel.com/?hop=ddl4all
the easy way to be environmentally friendly. In this case, just mentally friendly. Forget water, just pee in the tank.
http://www.simplewaterfuel.com/?hop=ddl4all
A great way to be environmentally freindly. Just pee in the tank. it's stronger than water and the exhaust kills bugs at the same time.
Oh dear. There's going to be a shitstorm once this idiot gets his deficiencies noticed. Try looking here to see how Pharyngulites feel about women.
For someone who obviously feels he is defined and made superior by the possession of testicles you sure do put them at risk by coming here and being as stupid as you've been. Stick around and you'll see what I mean - and you'll leave singing a couple of octaves higher.
Mind you, the women will have to be quick to get in before MA Jeff does.
Intersting article
http://gawker.com/5197067/gay-marriage-in-iowa
--------------
Here's one that mentions twitter
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/04/03/big-winner-in-todays-iowa-gay-mar…
Indeed. I would wager that the full measure of what I've been taught about firearms would scare the everliving hell out of Rob.
Josh, stop bragging. Just becuase you been shot at, doesn't mean you know it all. Sounds like you are still mad about Rob. Get over it. He was probably right. No one should question one's patriotism, but this question stems from the blind hatred that some liberals have for the USA. We see them burning flags on the news, but we never see them burning Mexican flags of those illegal aliens who fly another country's flag openly and refuse to lear the language of the country. I 'll make a deal with Mexico:
Send all of the illegals here you want. They get free medical care and education. in return I live in cacun all expeses paid for life. Medical, dental, food, education, housing, etc. Oh, and you have to make your residents put everything in English since I am an illegal guest. I wonder if this tactic could work with China?
-------------
i myself know a good bit about firearms including how to make those pesky bullets that are illegal. Anyone can make a gun and bullet with the right smithing tools and good metal working shop. It's not that hard to make homeade weapons that are more dangerous than store bought ones. Molds are readily available to most anyone and so is reloading powder. Teflon coating anyone? Just say wal-mart.
I know people who have teflon coated their own bullets. Besides, I use Hollow points anyway. FMJ is crap except for target practice.
I do wish I had my own AR-15 though. I need the money more than the rifle right now though. Even if Obama bans them (and he will) we can always buy spare parts and assemble them ourselves. stupid government never thinks about assembly after the fact. Good thing we have mothballs for a government or else we would really be in trouble.
-----------------------
random troll of the VD variety:
Well, as I've said before, I may not be a lady, but I'm all woman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4waY_ZHmeYw
(Yes, I do like that song. What can I do? It's sad and touching.)
Are these kids fooling around or has this been linked to by some sicko site again?
How did a thread about marriage rights turn to the topic of weapons manufacturing and illegal immigration? In that case, I was driving through the Red state of Georgia today and wouldn't you know it, a small American flag was blowing around in the wind like a piece of litter on the side of the freeway. I almost ran over it. I repeat, this was in the Red state of Georgia. Symbolism? Think about it, derender.
*yawn*
I wasn't bragging. I was making a point. Not surprised you missed it.
Hey, how about this: fuck you. Rob was being an asshole. He's earned my rancor.
You do realize that these two statements contradict each other, right?
And you do realize that you just called into question the patriotism of all of those liberals you're referring to, right?
Blind hatred? Yeah, all of the liberals I know just fucking hate America. What? As opposed to all of that country-lovin' that the conservatives who want lies taught as science in schools have? *yawn* How's that cool-aid taste?
When exactly was the last time you saw a US flag burned? When? When was it?
Seriously--where did all of the good trolls go? This new batch sucks.
Fuck you, asshole. We love the US more than some conservatives who cheer George W. Bush for wasting American prestige, treasure and lives in Iraq because of non-existent WMD (or was it because Saddam Hussein was a big meanie, I could never keep Shrub's excuse du jour updated).
Josh, the "trolls" were banned according previous posts. If you want to get them, you'll have to stop banning them.
Well a couple of years ago a buch of leftists indoctrinated college students burned flags in California. Well, Californai stopped being a state back in the 1960s anyway.
Now it's a bastion for marxism.
I do see Islamic terrorists burning flags which is okay as long as they wrap it around their head while it's burning.
The koo-aid tastes petty goody. it's red.
The lies that ae taught in school are the far left propaganda garbage being forced down our kids' throats like homosexuality and evolution. That garbage may be okay for grown ups in college but it does not belong in public schools where children are impressionable. Of course this leftist brainwashing is what the liberals are depending on since they fail to reproduce properly. Haf of the libes are gay and cannot reproduce and the other half kill the babay that they made before it ever gets out of the womb. No wonder they seek recruits at school. They cannot make any of their own.
Yes I do question patriotism of those who fail to see the blind hatred of Islamic terrorism knocking on our door and refuse to act on it. So get over it becuase that's not going to "change" anytime soon - if ever.
Again people - the harsh language of "tolerant" people - there is one lady present - maybe.
Learn what Marxism is. All you're showing us right now is you're a right-wing ignoranus* who can mouth conservative propaganda but is otherwise fucking stupid.
*ignoranus, n. An ignorant asshole.
Ya, in drag.
I think you know the answer already. For people like that jackass and apparently, derender; GLBT marriage, pro gun control, America hating, immigrant loving are all the same topics. Funny thing about all of this, with a centralist Democrat in power, it is the far right that is grumbling about revolution and secession. How pro-America.
Go away you hate filled fundie winger. You are exactly what's wrong with this country. If anyone hates this country it's you dumbass cry baby scaredy cat deluded right wingers. Grow the fuck up you piece of shit.
How about that, the sainted Ronald Reagan was the governor of a Marxist State. Say, has anyone informed Orange County? And that Hollywood, pulling in all of that money using the marxist system.
I was reacting to Robs thinly veiled implications that no liberals ever act on it. What part of that did you miss?
And if you question peoples' patriotism, then perhaps you shouldn't write things like "No one should question one's patriotism."
Oh, and you're an evolution denier. Of course. Could we have predicted that? Apparently you're also a hypocrite, since you're using a computer powered, at least in part, by fossil fuels.* Nice.
*we use the principles of evolution, in part, to prospect, successfully, for petroleum.
Don't worry about it. I am not your ideal of what a women should be, I am stronger than that. I can handle swear word. Shit, I fucking use them.
@Janine>>> Yes, I knew. Derender is also over on the Summers thread causing trouble, unfortunately, but I should have known that Rob had come back to muck up this thread even more (just got to his secession post). I totally agree, Janine, and am myself laughing about how ridiculous it is (if only the Democrats in power were really liberal rather than centrist!), but it is a little frightening with the nutters getting so worked up, almost like a window back into the McCarthy era.
Janine said,
Fuck! Me, too!
Damn.
I only read the first 50 or so comments, so I don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but it's very clearly explained on Open Salon: judicial opinion dismantles the discriminatory rationalizations that accompany prejudicial laws. And you'll love the illustration.
Down at the bottom of the link I mentioned above, the author, a lawyer himself, says:
Please, nobody click that video link! It's a trojan. # 98 - 99
well, judging from that penis compensation thread #390, I'd have to bring my own cucumber to that party. lame. also, matcho went out of style 100 years ago.
and you wouldn't know marxism if it bit you in the head. nor would you know a lady if she kicked you in the general area where a real man's nuts would be.
I'm going to guess no one informed you that there isn't such a thing as "the language of this country".
illegal aliens who fly another country's flag openly and refuse to lear the language of the country.
Would that be Cherokee, or Chippewa? Oh, wait, might as well just go with the inter-tribal Lene Lenape. How are lessons coming?
Haf[sic] of the libes are gay and cannot reproduce[,] and the other half kill the babay[sic] that they made before it ever gets out of the womb.
Right, because my mom, the self proclaimed liberal (and Christian, they aren't mutually exclusive) killed me and my siblings in the womb. That's why we're here today. And I'm totally gay for being liberal and not conforming to gender stereotypes. Except I'm attracted women. Gee, do you ever stop and think that most of your gender norms are pointless societal constructions. Oh, and the thing with my mom is the same with my girlfriend's parents.
Well there I go criticizing someone else's grammar, and I suffer from punctuation fail. Damn you, Karma!
Rob (and other trolls of various nicks, probably all the same person), you are a fucking embarrassment.
I am not a liberal or a leftist of any stripe. I'm a free-market fiscal conservative. But people like you make me fucking ashamed to be on the political right. Your "political" stance is based on blind bigotry, illiteracy and a rejection of reason. You use religion not as a moral guide, but as a rhetorical tool to bash your opponents and to give your irrational hatred a thin veneer of legitimacy. You pretend to support "freedom" while advocating the use of state coercion to oppress those whose lifestyles don't conform to your personal tastes.
I really hope you're a troll, pretending to be a conservative in order to make conservatives look stupid. If not, there's simply no hope left for American conservatism, and I might as well pack it all in, become a goddamn Marxist-Leninist and go and protest outside the G20 in a Che T-shirt, since it would be slightly less embarrassing than being associated with the likes of you.
Apologies to everyone for this intemperate rant.
CHE was a terrorist. Same as Bin Laden, Hamas, Hezbollah, columbia guerillas, Mexican drug whores, Bill Ayers, and the like. They are all the same.
Fossil fuel eh?
What about abiotic pertroleum?
It's a good thing the FLOOD happened, or there would be no fossil fuels.
Yes I am an evolution denier and I have that right. I also have the right to teach others about reality rather than the cult that evolution has spun.
There is a distict difference between adaptation and evolution. You might want to read up on that.
There is no way 100 foot long 50 ton lizards turned into little chickens over time. It is impossible. The fact is, dinosaurs are dinosaurs and chicens are chickens and they both existed at the same time becuase they were created in the same week. The flood of Noah kille most o the dinos. After that, the following ice age and extreme climate chnage (good thing Al Gore didn't know Noah)killed most of the rest of them along with other species. The rest were hunted down by humans and slaughtered.
I know you will not believe ths, but it's okay. Those of us who do continue on with our lives ignoring dribble like evilution and climate chnage. (Like it really matters!)
"there's simply no hope left for American conservatism"
Quoted for truth.
Let's see, cult of evolution. Deity-none. Church-none. Holy book-none. Followers-none. Tithes-none.
What you have are scientists and people who follow science, and the peer reviewed primary scientific literature with approximately a million papers or so directly and indirectly supporting evolution. Sound evidence. With error correction built in. Sound science. There is no other scientific theory for all of biology.
Show me in Genesis where Noah was permitted by God to not collect dinosaurs and put them on the ark? Where was that flexibility offered to Noah? Which verse in Genesis 6 would that be?
Show me in Genesis where Noah is shown to have failed in collecting all of the animals that God commanded him to collect? Genesis 6:22 would suggest that Noah didn't miss any animals.
How exactly is it that the flud killed the dinosaurs?
Deity-none. Church-none. Holy book-none. Followers-none. Tithes-none.
Correction:
Diety-Darwin. Church-Biology class. Holybook-The origin of species. Followers-atheists,darwinists, liberals. Tithes-federal government, ACLU, George Soros, left wingers.
See, you do a cult after all.
Well, like all floods, animals drown, JOSH. Thye term dinosaur was not invented until the mid 1800s. I am sure they were called "beasts of the field" and not he collected two of every KIND, not two of every animal - there is a difference.
derender you are as much of an idiot as ROB
Well no shit. No one here is extolling the greatness of communism. You equating anyone to it shows exactly what a giant fucking moron you are.
Oh now it comes out, you really are a total fucking dumbass.
Tell us what about evolution is wrong. Pick a specific piece of research and then show us the refuting creationist research.
Go ahead I bet you can't do it. You'll instead use broad sweeping denials that don't actually refute anything.
fucking idiot
First the word is drivel and it applies to the non science of creationism. Evolution has all the evidence backing it.
Second show us the science refuting evolution you incredibly idiotic simpleton.
Define Kind. Support your answer. Go.
I agree with you that it doesn't matter what they were called, but the whole point of putting KINDS on the Ark was so that the KIND wouldn't DIE OUT. So why did the dinosaurs not make it?
Walton, I and many others here can assure you that Rob and derender are a common type of American conservative. Frothing at the mouth, calling anyone to the left of Sarah Palin a Marxist, and questioning the patriotism of everyone who doesn't 100% agree with them. Not all conservatives are like Rob and derender, but a large and vocal percentage of them are.
Corrected your mindless and thoughtless and evidenceless mistakes Derneder.
By the way, do you have any physical evidence for your imaginary deity that will pass muster with scientists, magicians, and professional debunkers as being of divine origin? Something like an eternally burning bush say? Or is god just another of your delusions, like your politics?
Nice dodge, but that wasn't referring in any way to the point I made, so it kind of FAILS at refuting it. I wasn't talking about how oil is formed. I was talking about how we find oil, which has little to do with how it's formed. Apparently that was lost on you, however. What, is reading comprehension yet something else that makes the baby Jesus cry?
I see I was right in describing derender as an ignoranus. He doesn't even know his own Bible, which specifically says:
Nothing there about excluding dinosaurs.
I am sure they were called "beasts of the field" and not he collected two of every KIND, not two of every animal - there is a difference.
Imagine:
GOD: Um, Noah, where are my dinosaurs?
NOAH: Well, you didn't specify, so I just took other "beasts of the field".
G: What? But... but some of them lived in forests. Chrissake, some of them flew!
N: Yeah... we took those down to feed the jackals and shit.
G: You didn't even take on the velocirapters? Those were so cool. I put a lot of work into those.
N: No, we got the chickens instead.
G: ... Chickens? ... Wait... no... you preserved ALL the mustelids? Every mustelid and rodent but not. one. dinosaur?
Sorry it's long.
No one, not even god, wants to anger Tyrannosaurus Rex.
But this is your coalition, Walton!
It's important for you to put Rob and Mike Huckabee and Joel Osteen and Michele Bachmann and Rick Santorum into power! You've got to learn to love them. They love you and so does Jesus.
I do hope you come to America. Come out into the small towns of the Midwest and South. Sit in the bars and diners and strike up conversations. Take this charge seriously, keep it up for a few months. I've been doing it my whole life.
What you will find, and I say this with no exaggeration, is that the US Republican base are some of the. worst. people. on. earth. Millions and millions of Adolf Hitlers, Timothy McVeighs, David Dukes and Pat Robertsons.
I didn't realize that you were unaware of the extent of America's little war-crime-in-waiting! You know those compromises you're so fond of? Many US Dem voters are making just such compromises, because the alternative is fascism. And I don't mean the libertarian definition of fascism, where the IRS has the legal authority to audit you. I mean jackboots and swastikas, purity patrols, waves of lynchings, then deportations, then concentration camps, culminating in a true return to traditional values. A purge. The wingers are not kidding, and it's a constant struggle to keep a lid on them.
Come to America, Walton. They will think you are gay because you have a British accent, and they will whisper through the bar, making plans to assault you in the parking lot for bringing your gay ass where you don't belong.
All this time I thought you knew what you were advocating, and you were happy about it, like the Nazi sympathizers in the 30s. Now I see your reaction to Rob and I have to laugh.
I'm trying to count how many people I'm personally acquainted with who have shown me their tattoos of swastikas or 14/88 or Nazi eagles. I want to say it's less than 25 but I can't say that with full confidence.
What should children of America call the couple of the same sex marriage ? wife and wife ? husband and husband ?
If those couples adopt children, what should the kids call them ? big daddy and daddy ? big mommy and mommy ?
if the kids know their "parents" sex behavior, penis to anus and vigina to vigina (with artificial penis), what is the effect ?
wow... very interesting to watch the change of human civilization in America ! it's a self destruction for their next generation. It's more destructive than 9/11.
http://www.ajc.com/services/content/printedition/2009/04/05/pitt0405.ht…
May I recommend http://www.amazon.co.uk/Deer-Hunting-Jesus-Delusion-Redneck/dp/18462715…
@431: All these questions have simple answers. Two men married? Husbands or spouses. Two women married? Wives or spouses.
Your obsession with what gay people do in bed is psychologically revealing but irrelevant.
All kids (except, apparently, Simon) eventually grasp that their parents have sex. It's no biggy.
No destruction. Just happy families.
siMon,
Three separate questions for you:
1) do you believe that the US government should outlaw gay sex acts?
2) do you believe that people repeatedly practicing gay sex should be put in jail?
3) do you believe that unrepentant gay sex practitioners should be executed, if they turn down multiple chances to repent? (Leviticus 20:13)
I'm sorry all, but this one is just too priceless. This guy makes Rush Limbaugh look thoughtful.
Huh. How come we have fossils of other species preserved in rocks related to the "Ice Age" (the "one" that I suspect you're referring to), but not one fossil of a non-avian dinosaur. Not one. How come? If the "Ice Age" killed all of the dinosaurs who didn't drown in the flud, then why is it than NONE of these huge animals were preserved in these deposits, when the deposits are ripe with the fossils of smaller animals?
Oh, that's just too funny.
Walton, do you have any serious guesses as to why these people gravitate toward the right?
I will reserve judgment on this until I've actually visited rural Republican America. Thus far I've only been to Washington DC and urban northern Virginia, and most of the American conservatives I've met have been elite DC Republicans rather than the rank and file. So I can't judge the veracity of your claims.
A tour of right-wing America! ROAD TRIP!
We start in Alabama (where I first heard the threat to "light him up and piss him out"), up through Georgia and South Carolina (RBDC takes us on tour) across Tennessee to Arkansas, Texas and then north through Oklahoma and Kansas, Missouri, western Illinois and up to Wisconsin (where we visit the birthplace of the Republican Party and the John Birch Society),cross Minnesota through the sixth and seventh districts to North Dakota (home of Jesus Bible Camp) to eastern Montana where we'll meet with the Freemen (real libertarians, not just book-learnin' types).
Still alive and sane? Then its off to Utah via Wyoming, across Nevada to SoCal, where we highlight our adventure by participating in a race riot, courtesy of Lou Dobbs.
I think this may be sufficient to dissuade our friend from across the pond about the reasonableness of the American Reich (er, I mean "right", don't want to pull a Godwin).
They elected David Duke.
They elected him.
To the Louisiana House in 1988.
Most of the people who voted for him are still alive.
Go to the SPLC's webpage. Look at their map of hate groups. Find a highly concentrated area. Go there.
Or go hang out with a chapter of the Council of Conservative Citizens. cofccDOTorg i won't actually link to it.
Or just have some fun and watch the American Vacation episode of Top Gear. :D That's probably better. No need to endanger yourself.
Uhm, yeah--DC Republicans-not the same animal at all...
And this is OT, but might lighten things up-it's beautiful in DC today, although the tourist count is high (writing this from the Mall on a wireless).
Walton,
To gain some insight into the US right wing republican mind, please visit Free Republic and read as many comment threads as you can stomach.
The folks there are just about the farthest thing from the educated, well-heeled republicans you encountered in DC.
There you go. Don't take my word for it. Go to Free Republic and read. That's the base, in all their hateful glory.
For extra credit, try to see yourself in them. Your and their politics have a common root in casual human selfishness, fear and distrust. Get plenty drunk and then read the Free Republic comments, see if you can hear your anxiety in their words.
Either that or decide that if these are the people you want as your allies. Just remember, those are the people that makes up the crowd that loves Limbaugh and Coulter. Sorry, I will not let people forget, when you first came here, you expressed your admiration for them.
Hey, Walton! Here is Limbaugh talking about Gordon Brown.
Compare that to your typical Freeper.
Care of Pam's House Blend.
Good for you Iowa! Good job!
We seemt o have lost the thread. What about the gays? Will someone please think of the gays.
T Rex andveloicaptor were not vicious to humans until after the folld. Read Gen 9. that goes for all animals.
---------------
I was told to refut evolution with scientific evidence, but that would take a long time and you would just ignore it anyway. I'll accept the challenge if anyone can prove evolution. If you can prove that 100 foot long 50 tons cold blooded reptiles turned into little chickens over a trillion mellinia, go for it. I'm waiting ...
First the earth is less that 10,000 years old, and even if it were 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, melennia old, that is still not enough time for anything to evolve with someone tinkiering with genetics on purpose.
Go ahead creation deniers, impress me with your molecules to man anti-Bible stuff. At the point, I'll even bet our cousins the monkeys are listening... God ahead give a so called logical scientific explaination as to how nothing turned into something. Start with thee Big Bang... How did the Big Bang start?
I have my explanation. while you so called scientists run around frantically looking and hoping for an answer to the universe, I already have one. Have had for the last 6,000 years. Seems to me you are 6,000 years behind schedule.
Go ahead mighty thinkers, impress me... Give me your explaination as to what existed before the Big Bang, and before that, and before that, and before that?
Goe ahead. You have all the answers, explain away. I'm waiting...
Well I do have the big fat idiot talking about Gordon Brown dying of anus poisoning. Thinking about it, it sounds like something that siMon would say.
Bleh!
Derender, you have no idea what you are talking about.
Oh shit! He is going to use the coconut cracker defense!
derender, still no physical evidence for your imaginary deity. Without which, there goes all your explanations, since you were going to say "goddidit". Boy, are you a real wimp. Real men have good physical evidence to back up their claims. That makes you a wimp and scientists with their peer reviewed scientific literature Real Men (and Women).
derender, I'm tempted to think your moniker is code for derriere.
Ace of stevens:
We are trying to forget the bad news about Iowa.
But Nerd, derender could prove that evilution could not have happened if he could have a "Trial By Combat", or, in derender's case, a "Trial By Firearms". That is why all of you gay libral support the Islamic Fascist Barry. He will take away the guns from all of the righteous Americans, thus making them unable to refute our atheist lies.
Awwww. Is the poor widdle bigot all upset? Oh noes! Homos are humans!
Look at that! The dumb ass cannot even spell right the name of the person he is trying to insult. Fits in with all of the other misspellings in his nonsensical screeds.
If the Earth is less than 10,000 years old, how come radiometric dating gives an age of over four billion years?
full-fledged, committed global socialist
Brown? Srsly? I mean... Brown? I don't think he call himself a socialist with a straight face.
Matt, Derender considers anybody not to the right of the Ayatollah to be a socialist. Someone like me who has actually voted for a democrat is a communist.
Why is it that none of these creation nutters can spell? Does the dribble make their fingers slip?
Ad what north of the north pole huh huh?
Surely you know enough general relativity and differential geometry to understand that the curvature of spacetime is such that "before" isn't defined at the Big Bang? After all you've had a complete answer to universe for 6000 years. (I assume that's in our frame of reference and you've been accelerating a lot, since nobody is that old).
Radiomatric dating is a joke.
several years ago in Germany, there were some human remains found in a cave and radiometric dating put their age at about 10,000 years old. Then the scientists found it the the teeth of the skulls had DENTAL FILLINGS.
So much for accuracy of dating methods - that is, of course dentists were prevalent 10,000 years ago.
Radiometric dating is not used to date the fossil itself, but rather than the contaminated rocks surrounding the area.
Much of the samples taht we date are contaminated by the sun's radiation and gives a much longer lifespan than what the real age is.
I would love to get a hold of a T Rex bone and carve some of it up and take it to be dated. i would tell the scientists there that the bone was of a cow - probably, but I need to knwo how long it has been dead.
It helps if the scientist does not know what I am up to when dating something, so that presuppostions do not get in the way.
Godbots are a joke. They believe the earth is only 6,000 years old in spite of mountains of evidence proving otherwise. But then, they are known to have mental problems, like believing in things with no evidence. We expect that from the mentally weak.
Calm the fuck down, derender. No need to get so uppity over same-sex love.
Radiomatric dating is a joke.
Call on Josh! Josh, you are needed here!
man, you people sure do talk nasty around here. Must be a liberal thing - or maybe no morals. Then again, how could there be. Morals come from God. You don;t believe in God, therefore no morals, and nasty talk. Do you talk like this around children? That's abuse
Let's see, a fool who cannot gets his facts right nor care enough to have spellcheck is complaining that bad words are used.
What we have here is the very definition of a dumb fuck.
Also, shit for brains, you would not be able to get away with giving a paleontologist a cow bone and have that person think they have a dinosaur bone.
Damn-I'm sitting in a bar right now. Hold the line for me for a bit Janine, then I've got your six.
And Derender? Stop lying, ok? You have no idea what you're talking about.
Janine, insulting Sinner:
"Yes we can"! My facts are perfectly straight mam.
And I did not saya paleontologist did I?
Again with the silly four letter words. There may be children present - and one lady - sort of.
I didn't know that would work.
Ha ha ha ha.
So, we can commit genocide and infanticide and that'd be okay? Because it's certainly okay with your hateful monster-god.
Or haven't you actually read the bible?
No, no, no. There are plenty of creobot threads derender can go spew on about evilution. It happens all the time around here. This thread is for teh gayz! I think it would be much more interesting to probe derender a bit, firmly if need be, to discover his innermost desires and urges on what should be done with gays. I'm sure it would be a very stimulating conversation. Seems as though he's thought about it enough to become quite detailed about his preferences.
That's a typical godbot. And they are proud of their ignorance.
Carlie, spank this fucker, will you?
Damn-I'm sitting in a bar right now. Hold the line for me for a bit Janine, then I've got your six.
Hold off a minute, Josh. Before you have to go through any effort, I think derender needs to explain to us exactly what radiometric dating is and exactly where the incorrect assumptions are in the methodology. Not random anecdotes about dating gone wrong, but WHY it doesn't work. Because if he can't, he's full of shit and deserves absolutely no time.
Besides, that would give you awhile to have another drink.
Morals come from God. which one?
Shit for brain, you have gotten nothing right. I know very little about radiometric dating but I know that there are dozens of methods and that they are used to confirm each other. I also know you are mistaken in claiming that a chicken is a descendant of 100 foot long 50 tons cold blooded reptiles. They are descendants of a smaller and lighter member of that family that took to the skies.
You are a bullshit artist making the claim that because you cannot understand it, it must be false. And crying over swear words does not detract from you making a fetish of your own ignorance. So there are children reading this blog. Your clean language stupidity does more harm than my profanity. And real women are not to delicate that swearing will cause them to faint.
In other words, derender, fuck you. And while you are at it, go to the Free Republic, where many people think as you do, and tell them to stop swear also.
Fucking creep!
Carlie, I like you more and more all the time.She is spot on, derender. Show us what you've got.
do your children melt if you use "bad" words around them? because the children around here seem to do just fine without being so overprotected.
Carlie, spank this fucker, will you?
I'm afraid he might like it.
I'll be happy to have something ready to go, but first I want derender to put up. Derender, what is your understanding of how radiometric dating works, and what about the process makes it faulty? Unacceptable answers include "the speed of decay has changed over time" (untestable) and "carbon-dating of really old things doesn't work" (we know that, which is why we use different isotopes for old things).
Carlie, spank this fucker, will you?
That's Patricia's job!
Do you lie like this around children? That's abuse.
Don't do that when I have a mouthful of beer!
Wowbagger:
Infanticide comes from humans too, it's called abortion.
---------------------------
Jadehawk:
What do you mean which one? There is only one!
-------------------------------
Carlie:
"the speed of decay has changed over time" (untestable)
Absolutley it is untestable. you are correct. Evolution is also untestable. Have you ever set in a lab for 350 millions years and watched your bateria grow into dinosaurs?
Didn't think so.
My answer is:
The speed of decay depends on many things. it depends on the environment, weather, bacterial growth, whether the animal is buried under a flood of salt water, whether it is lying in the sun and the radiation hits it full force, etc. Radiation has alot to do with the radiocarbon dating. Read up on and what better place than Answers In Genesis.
I'm glad I financially support them. Just think. if I had the money that Bill gates or george Soros has, you people would be doomed.
---------------------
Okay people. Now that I have explained my version, someone with the brains around here explain to me how big lizards tun into little chickens and change from cold blooded reptiles to warm-blooed mammals. I'm still wating...
So, if the governor does manage to veto what would come next? Is this open to appeal?
It's nice living in Canada where gay marriage is allowed, though there was some talk a little while back that the conservatives might try to reopen the subject. However I think public opinion was strongly against that so they let it lie.
well, according to the link you obviously didn't click on, there's several thousand different gods, all about as likely as yours.
but even if we just take yours for a moment... which of the over 38000 interpretations is the right one, with the correct set of morals?
derender squealed
No, it's called infanticide - that's why there is a different word for it. Do you understand the concept? You do appear to having some difficulties with expression and comprehension; I think it's only fair to ask.
And, if you actually read your bible, you'll see that your god has absolutely no problem with abortion (a child less than one month old has no value) - so, if he's okay with it, why aren't you?
Are you saying your god is wrong?
The one of the Bible. Haven't youever heard of "No other Gods before me". That includes little wooden idols MADE BY HUMAN HANDS!
But you've got to admit, it's a funny joke.
All those ex-Christian children and college students, lured to hell and damnation, pornography and gay sex, all because we lied about radioactive decay.
See, it's not just a weapon against bodies and cities. It's a weapon against souls.
I will be a Prince in Hell for all the souls I've delivered to the Dark One by evolution evangelism.
How many eternities of fiery torture! Funny, innit?
The speed of decay depends on many things. it depends on the environment, weather, bacterial growth, whether the animal is buried under a flood of salt water, whether it is lying in the sun and the radiation hits it full force, etc. Radiation has alot to do with the radiocarbon dating. Read up on and what better place than Answers In Genesis.
That is not an answer. That is the stammering of a child tossing shit on a wall, hoping that some magical combination of words will sound convincing.
Also, no said that chicken are the descendants of 100 foot long 50 tons cold blooded reptiles. That is just you mischaracterizing what biologists have to say.
You mean that proven work of fiction. Your god doesn't exist and your bible is a work of fiction. Deal with it--elsewhere.
(a child less than one month old has no value) - so, if he's okay with it, why aren't you?
Where did you get a concoction like this? If you are referring to the pagans, He wiped them out becuase they were idol worshippers.
If you were referring to Israel escaping Egyptian slavery, yes He wiped them out, but gave them a chance. He always gives a warning and a second chance before doing so. Only when people ignore it will He bring destruction. Besides, i figure if He created and owns the entire universe, He can do with it what he pleases.
right so the israelites were supposed to follow that one, and not the others. are you an israelite? i'm not. why should i follow their god, and not some other one?
for that matter, why use the bible? the rig veda is far more interesting, and equally realistic. what if their gods are real, and yours is not?
What has radiometric dating got to do with marriage? After one marries, one usually stops dating, whether radiometric or on-line.
Or is radiometric dating something like a little buzzer to carry in a pocket that detects interested strangers? You know, derender, like the colored bandannas gay men sometimes use--different colors for different perversions, left or right pocket for pitching or catching. I'm thinking you are yellow in the left pocket.
Seriously, derender, we've seen hordes of godbots that cannot spell or read or reason coherently, show up to spew hate at us. All they accomplish is to make their religion look even more ridiculous, evil and unlikely.
Evolution is a fact. Deal with it in your own way, but don't expect to convince anyone here that they are wrong. We aren't stubborn or close-minded, we just have a method of getting to the facts, a willingness to face the facts, and a desire to discover them. What we know, we know--which is a heck of a lot different that having blind faith, and hating anyone who disturbs that faith.
Take a breath, and take it far away. But don't take it to Iowa, or you might see some happy people.
Is that your final answer? Would you like to phone a friend, or perhaps poll the audience? You still have not even approached answering the question: What is your understanding of what radiometric dating is, and how does it work? You can't say scientific conclusions are incorrect if you don't even know how they were arrived at in the first place, derender. I refuse to waste any time trying to educate you on where I think you've gone wrong if I don't even know what you think you know apart from hand-waving insipidity like "decay rates change and are affected by many things".
Janine, Insulting Sinner:
My aren't we creative in our language today? I seemed to have touched a nerve. So much for tolerance. You know all of that cursing might be bad for the environment. If kids are reading this, no woner they grow up to smoke dope and protest. They don;t know any better. Poor kids. Having to grow up in such a vulgar environment. Maybe we shoudl call child services and report it. Oh, and I love Free Republic. Thank you
I shall now refer to you as Janine, The four letter word person who destroys children.
If you were referring to Israel escaping Egyptian slavery, yes He wiped them out, but gave them a chance.
Bullshit! What did those babies have to do with the keeping of Jews as slaves. Why not going after those in power, those keeping slaves? You are proving Wowbagger's point.
lol, answers in genesis. The speed of decay is constant - it remains constant, and if you know of a way to speed up the process please let the nuclear industry know. What varies is the amount of parent element, if you can make more parent element - like having uranium contaminating coal - then you can make substances look younger than they are. Remember more parent, less child = younger substance. More child, less parent = older substance.Surely that's not too hard to understand.
Are you talking about Fischbach and Jenkins? That's far from established.
Radiation has alot to do with the radiocarbon dating.
That sounds like a line from a bad high school essay.
He warned the infants? The Midianite babies?
He warned the little girls who the Israelite armies then raped?
Derender believes that might makes right. That's the philosophy that justified the Holocaust.
Nice going, derender, you're a monster. A horrible, horrible person.