Maloney is a naturopath in the state of Maine, where quacks like him get to call themselves "doctors". These so-called "doctors" get to make recommendations like this, in which he disparages standard flu vaccines and suggests these useless prescriptions:
Parents waiting for vaccinations can provide their children with black elderberry, which blocks the H1N1 virus. A single garlic capsule daily cuts in half the incidence and the severity of a flu episode for children.
There's another way you can tell he's a quack. When a student, Michael Hawkins, dared to criticize him, pointing out that "Naturopathic medicine is pure bull" and stating that naturopaths are underqualified and do not deserve the title of "doctor," Maloney took action to silence him. After all, we can't have people questioning quacks — that just makes them look even more ridiculous, which could lead to a loss of business.
So Maloney complained to Wordpress, where Hawkins blog was located, and got them to shut it down. This does not speak well of craven Wordpress; if you're using Wordpress hosting, you might want to reconsider it and move elsewhere. You know, to someplace that respects reality.
Now not only is Maloney a quack, but he's a stupid quack. Shutting down blogs that criticize him? That never, ever works. In fact, it tends to backfire rather severely — because now a much bigger blog is going to spread the word that Christopher Maloney is a quack. I'm also going to ask all of you out there who reads this to echo the message: Christopher Maloney is a quack. Won't that be fun? Poke the net, and the net pushes back.
Share the message. Let the whole world know that Christopher Maloney is a cowardly quack.
He's also tasteless. This is possibly the ugliest youtube video ever.
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Shall we rename him - change the "M" to a "B"?
Christopher Maloney is a Qwack Qvack Quack.
Ok I lasted about a minute into that incredibly crap video. If anyone has the stomach to see it through to the end can you tell me if he ever does really get to a point where he explains why he's "on fire"? I know he says at the start its to gain attention but...but...WTF?
I was hoping for real flames to consume him but alas, nope. The comment section seems to have been heavily pharygulated. High fives!!!
I'm not terribly conversant with the field of psychology. Perhaps someone who is could enlighten me on the difference between a naturopath and a psychopath. They seem to share the same disregard for other people.
wbgleason (Tweet)
RT @pzmyers Christopher Maloney is a quack. http://bit.ly/aFJFNZ Spread the word.} And he's not the only one... http://bit.ly/aGSp6F #UMN
How short sighted of him. All he needed to do was to get someone in England to be offended, then use the British libel law system to smack the kid down.
Which should serve as a reminder to PZ, can Pharyngula be viewed in England?
“Your mother is an hamster and your father smells of elderberries...and so do your children!"
We note that Maloney rhymes with baloney, but we'll leave it to the esteemed Cuttlefish to do with that, what he will.
I drank Elderberry wine once does that mean I'm naturopathically protected from H1N1 virus?
As it gave me a hangover akin to being smacked upside the head with a frypan I think personally I rather get the flu.
I think I've figured it out. You put an elderberry in each nostril and several in door number 2, and then you shut your mouth and put your fingers in your ears. H1N1 effectively blocked.
Wait... Maloney is on fire? What else is on fire? Goats. Therefore Maloney is a goat.
As well as a quack.
If Maloney stares at a Goat for long enough it will turn into an Elderberry
Funny thing is that I moved my blog from Wordpress.com to a self-hosted version of the WP platform months ago. Apparently, I was risking being shut down if some quacks didn't like the stuff I wrote.
Believe me, both the quack and WP are going to get an e-mail...
OT-ish:
Doesn't D*ndy use Wordpress? Does he not use his blog to rant against this one? Hmmmmmmmmmmm
Now, while the idea that naturopaths should be allowed to call themselves "doctors" horrifies me and opens the door to all sorts of quackery, I will say this about this particular guy, after having a look around his page, most of his "treatments", like for GERD, fatty liver, arthritis,Diabetes etc, seem to be dietary changes, lifestyle changes andsoforth, and the ones he mentiones(and supports with links to studies) look like the worst they might do is not harm anyone.
There is homeopathy and naturopathy in there as treatment options, it would depend for which clinical conditions they are used to determine how dangerous the guy is.
As to swine flu, he cites the correct studies regarding efficacy of vaccination afaict, this is correct in mentioning that only 25% or less of small children showed a strong immune response to the vaccine.
I note he doesn't provide a link to and studies with elderberries, though.
So quack yes, and I shiver when I see the "N.D." thingie, but some of his "treatments" would probably at least not harm.
I think, though I'm not sure, that there is now a "fan" page on Facebook now for this.
Just mentally delete either of the "now"s in the previous post.
Durn Sangiovese.
Elderberries help fend off the plague H1N1 influenza because the demon behind the virus is afraid of them, similar to how vampire demons are afraid of garlic. It is good to eat them regularly, but it is most effective when the juice of the berry is smeared on the forehead in the shape of a cross.
OMFG
On his website he uses this slogan:
"If you get hit by a bus, go see your MD. If you just feel like you were, it's time to see me"
That is just so unbelievably funny.
It's people like Maloney who give "stupid" a bad reputation.
That sounds like a fucking video game.
Item: Black Elderberry
Effects: Cures swine flu, and +350 to HP.
You know, I think I heard not that long ago that naturopaths in Canada wanted to be recognized or something.
Sigh.
spread via facebook and twatter maloney is a quack with the link
having said that
while naturopathic medicine lends itself to quackery and quacks I have found it useful to read any and all literature (realistic anyway) about any condition I may see a doc about. Once they leave medical school, residency and start their own practice its hard to keep up with everything especially when dealing with big pharma. For example, last year I was given a script for a new and exciting cold medicine that was priced around $90 dollars. Took the script home, looked it up on the web, went and consulted a pharmacist (you think teachers are underpaid) and built the damn thing myself over the counter for about $17.95 after chatting with the doc again. I spent a lot of time investigating pharmaceutical compounds in my yout I tend to be a little leery what I ingest as I get older. As far as h1n1 I wasnt too concerned, got the kids their shot but figured what I survived over the years h1n1 might not be much more than a snot generator for a few days.So as far as medical care goes, do the research yourself. Altho I do own a copy of greys anatomy circa 1972 I dont suggest practicing surgery at home unless a case of last resort or an amputation is needed
You're assuming that people would undergo his treatment and also undergo conventional treatment. While this is often the case, it isn't always so. People can and do die because they take "alternative" medicines instead of proven ones.
Also not that Adelle Davis "lets eat right to get fit" has a lot of studies done over a lot of years as a dietician, nutritionist. A lot of the nature homo folks cut n snip the useful parts for their practice so not all is bad. As far as elderberries go shitloads of vity C with some useful alkaloids as well so actually not that bad an advice, get healthier you dont get as sick. No one ever died from an overdose of garlic either, they just smell like they did.
..oh sure, tell THAT to Dracula.
@Bride of Shrek OM: sure, if I could pin him down
Bwahahahhahahahah! You forgot:
+25 to Hillbilly and Trailer Park skills.
75% resistance to Highschool Education element.
Actually, I seem to recall a friend of mine being, if not allergic to, certainly intolerant of, garlic.
Tweetin' "Christopher Maloney..."AFLAC!""
"Drunk all the time feelin' fine on Elderberry Wine"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21NCH2sPlhc
Rorschach@18 Au contraire my friend. Naturopaths divert people from seeking proper medical attention. If that vague unease and intestinal distress you're feeling is cancer then the time you wasted taking herbal supplements just might mean your death. The anti-vaccine nonsense has killed or disabled how many children? Naturopaths are no better than homeopaths.
It's not much of a recommendation of naturo/homeopathy when 'all they did was waste my money and my time' is your best outcome.
No I don't, however you're assuming that they do not.I have no evidence from what I see on his site to conclude that he doesn't also use or refers to conventional, i.e. real doctors.He probably doesnt, or not often enough, but I can't prove that, so I withhold my claim until I have more information.
While that is probably wildly true, it almost certainly isnt generally true.
I wasn't endorsing naturopathy, everyone who knows me here would realise that, but there is some areas where what this guy does, when complimented by real medicine, might be of limited benefit.How many GP's give you pills for Type 2 Diabetes, say, but no good advice and instructions on lifestyle changes, weight loss etc. ? Let me tell you, way too many !
Should he be allowed to pose as a doctor in a white coat with stethoscope around his neck on his site ? What's he going to listen to with that ?
I'd be more then happy to see him sued for fraud or whatever applies in that situation. "N.D.", my ass.
It's amazing how many people believe in woo. I'm having a bit of neurological trouble in my back and one leg, and every other person I know is trying to get me to visit his own special woo-ologist. Chiropractors, acupuncturists, homeopathists, Chinese herbalists, everything but leeches (so far).
Yeah? The same was said of leeches, bloodletting, and burning witches.
It worked for burning witches… women lighter than ducks with long noses and a predilection for newts are now very uncommon, possibly extinct.
Shared the message.
This guy's website is making my brain explode. Make it stop.
Guys
Rorschach is as anti-woo as anybody here, probably more so because he no doubt sees some of the nasty aftermath of its use.
I must admit though I did enjoy the photo of him trying to look all "doctorly" with his play props. My 4 year old daughter looks more trustworthy when she kits out in her plastic doctor's toy kit.
Don't malign leeches like that. They actually have a valid medical use, most commonly after reattachment surgery for limbs. They're for draining off blood, large vessels leading into the limb can be reattached but smaller leading vessels out can't and the blood would pool and cause a problem if it wasn't drained. Leeches do this very efficiently and cleanly.
This quack is in my neck of the woods. Not pleased. I met Michael (and so did PZ) at PZ's talk at Bates, he doesn't deserve this sort of treatment.
Oh, thanks you Sven, at #2.
Fantastic.
broboxley @ #30:
Fixed that for you.
Colin @ 44
Yeah, homeopathy is woo-woo pseudomedicine. Homopathy is a brain disorder of people, frequently right-wing christofascists, who fear and attack lesbian and gay folk.
Nice catch.
I also spread the word to my (extremely modest) audience.
I wonder why the 'complain' option seems to useful for people in these scenarios. Is it because, deep down, they know their treatments don't work? Is it because they can't take the criticism? Or is it because they haven't yet found a herb that confers immunity to evidence?
"Christopher Maloney is a quack"
People with blogs should post it as their title and then in the text.
Everyone should "google" the term, causing the phrase to become very popular.
See what happens, and then profit.
I've spread the word too, but considering I've only just set up my site in the last few days, I doubt I have much of an audience :)
The thought of swallowing garlic, in any form, horrifies me: I'm allergic.
"It's a subject I talk about a lot . . ."
Uh, wouldn't it then be an idea to acquire some knowledge before opening big gob, expressing only ignorance and inanity?
Somehow it seems like his self-promotion kinda backfired. Wonder how that could be after the 'enlightening' video (who turned off the fucking lights!?!).
Oh, who? Is Orac going to blog about this later?
*ducks*
Eek, he's also an antivaxxer, given the mercury chelation gobbledygook and reference to the Wakefield MMR paper on the site.
Sometimes quacks do get just a little bit of evidence behind their claims. Some science on the H1N1 blocking abilities of elderberry flavinoids.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19682714?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez…
An in vitro study.You forgot to mention...:-)
And so, I too have posted "Christopher Maloney is a quack" as the title of a blog post on a WordPress blog. Should I be backing up my stuff and moving to Blogger?
Epic, fail.
Rorschach
What's the significance of it being in vitro? Does that mean it's earl;y stage testing or something and the results should only be a taken lightly? My science background is in physics so I'm a bit lost in the biological areas. My limted understanding would be that this means it hasn't yet gone to testing on any animal systems, let alone humans. Is this right?
Enkidu:
Bloodletting, unlike witch burning, actually has its uses in hemochromatosis (iron overload) and polycythemia vera (abnormal elevation of red blood cells).
I guess it wont help with your back trouble, though. I feel your pain, my back is a meddling bitch too.
That this are results from a test tube, not an animal model, or let alone human trial.In other words, it's worthless in terms of the accepted standards in Medicine.
In answer to the question of whether he ever gets to the point on Thyroid hormones... the answer is no. Apparently he thinks that about 1 in 6 people can't convert TH4 to TH3. That number seems to be pulled right out of his ass.
I've linked to this on my blog.
If garlic is so good at knocking back 'flu... why dont the most famous of garlic eaters, the French, have any advantage?
What a pile of arse.
Heh - I just Googled "Christopher Maloney is a quack"... :)
Pharyngula comes up first, of course, but there's a good few pages after that as well.
Now - to really get this party going, can some talented animator/musician get a vid up on YouTube of Cartman singing the "Kyle's Mum is a big fat bitch" song, except with the obvious lyrical changes?
More quackery exposed.
You'll know what this is about if you have read Ben Goldacre's Bad Science:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbqYOw9I38w
Well I've done my part :-)
http://newatheism.blogspot.com
"I put the Eiffel Tower in the background, and put myself on fire, if that doesn't keep your attention, I don't know what will."
I think this guy needs to learn the difference between "keeping your attention", and "being totally distracting".
quackopractors are woo?
those with back pain whose only recourse is getting drugs from an MD MAY benefit from a visit to a "Good" chiropractor. Defining good as one that understands the limitations of massage and doesnt sell the wooier parts of the industry. My neck and back has issues every couple of years so a visit to my MD for opiates, then a visit to the quackopractor for mumble and snap my recovery time is much shorter.
Yep, an in vivo study. Not evidence on which to make medical recommendations, but the study does present a potential mechanism by which elderberry flavinoids could block the virus' ability to infect new cells. The same mechanism, on the same receptors, by which Tamiflu is thought to reduce the severity of flu infections.
I guess this is common knowledge for most of you, but I saw a reference the other day to "in silico" testing, i.e. computer simulations of proteins.
Totally OT : Does anyone know what happened to the big Department of Energy project to perform complete "in silico" simulation of bacteria-scale organisms? Is it still around? That was very interesting work.
The Facebook fanpage could use some more fans.
Check out
http://www.maloneymedical.com/id67.html
He asked the question, "Am I a quack?"
His answer - "This is the question that my patients don't ask, because it is not polite. But it is a valid question, and I will do my best to answer it. The short answer is no." - Has only one minor mistake.
I'll correct it for him. - "This is the question that my patients don't ask, because it is not polite. But it is a valid question, and I will do my best to answer it. The short answer is yes, hell yes. Ja, oui, ναι, sì, sim, and да. I am such a quack that when I walk down the street, people are tempted to shove a chicken in my ass, and the shove me into a turkey's ass to make a living turducken. There is no possible way that I am not a quack. When I walk down the ducks look at me and say, 'My god, there goes a asstard.'"
Quack, sure. But do you really want to make this guy famous? We all know how their demographic works. "The atheists are attacking him; he must be onto something!"
This is like when people try really hard to get their books or films banned someplace so they can then sell so many more based on the curiosity surrounding the ban.
I fear we're organizing an ad campaign for this guy.
Doing my part. This would be the second post on my (unused and pointless) blog. The first just says "First!"
Now in my "A Moron" link section.
Hmm, this has potential to be a meme.
More important than spreading the "Maloney is a quack statement of fact", is slapping Wordpress around. If you do your blogging there, you should leave and tell them why. Everyone should send them a letter telling them that calling a spade a fucking shovel should not constitute a violation of their terms of service and if it does they need to change their terms of service.
the most famous of garlic eaters, the French,
EXCUSE ME? The Italians are the most famous of garlic eaters, thankouverymuch.
Done. My small blow against naturopathy and Wordpress.
http://deusexeverriculum.wordpress.com/2010/02/18/dear-christopher-malo…
@Bride of Shrek OM, #22:
Paraphrased: "If you have a close head injury, go see an M.D. If people wonder if you've suffered a close head injury every time you open your mouth, Maloney's your man!"
Interestingly, the Jain and some Hindu abstain from garlic (and onions for that matter) frequently or at all for fear of stimulating desires.
#28: "Also note that Adelle Davis "lets eat right to get fit" has a lot of studies done over a lot of years as a dietician, nutritionist. A lot of the nature homo folks cut n snip the useful parts for their practice..."
Except that 'cut n snip the useful parts' is how ID folks say that Darwin doesn't believe the eye could have evolved. What's "useful" to a naturopath trying to sell herbal supplements isn't necessarily "useful" to my health.
"As far as elderberries go shitloads of vity C with some useful alkaloids as well so actually not that bad an advice, get healthier you dont get as sick. No one ever died from an overdose of garlic either, they just smell like they did."
People can die from an overdose of vitamin C though, and high doses of C cause the runs, so advising someone to get "shitloads of vity C" actually isn't great advice. And advising someone that they should get their vitamin C from an expensive herbal product that you sell, instead of just buying fruit at the market sounds like a conflict of interest.
I hear and obey. http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2010/02/repeating-pz-myers-christopher-maloney-is-a-quack-and-cowardly-and-wordpress-is-craven.html
Dear “Reverend” PZ Meyers,
How fitting that, three hundred years later, the witch trials continue. If you recall, it was the herbalists that were burned then as well. Your flock has spoken to me, Reverend Meyers, with the shrieking common to all fundamentalist cults. I believe if you check you will find that fundamentalism involves a closed mind while doing science requires an open mind. It also involves a thing they call research.
Do you do basic research into a person’s claims before posting? Did you perhaps go to medline and type the words “elderberry” and “H1N1”? Did you even bother to read my original editorial that cites Cochrane database and CDC raw data? If you had done basic research or contacted me directly you would perhaps not have posted lies in your blog.
You can call me an idiot and a quack, but when you repeat the "fact" that I am not a doctor and not qualified, that is a written lie or libel. I am a doctor under Maine state law and meet the qualifications of that title.
In terms of poor maligned elderberry, the medline citation is “The H1N1 inhibition activities of the elderberry flavonoids compare favorably to the known anti-influenza activities of Oseltamivir (Tamiflu; 0.32 microM) and Amantadine (27 microM). (Phytochemistry. 2009 Jul;70(10):1255-61) While this is a test tube study only, please keep in mind that we had no vaccine and were at the peak of the pandemic here in Maine. I never suggested elderberry as a vaccination but as a possible home treatment for sick children.
Michael Hawkins is an undergraduate at UMA who replied to my editorial. His rambling editorial was not based on science or research, but his need to publicize himself. After failing to get an editorial published against God he decided I was, flatteringly, next on the list. All of the research and medline citations for my editorial are available under swine flu on my website, and were there for Mr. Hawkins to simply see. But, despite the reality that I practice evidence-based medicine, neither you nor Mr. Hawkins have ever bothered to read my site.
Mr. Hawkins managed to get his own website suspended by arguing with his server about what constitutes libel and blames me. I have never directly contacted Wordpress about him and I have never replied to either his hate posts or his email attacks on me personally. In doing my own research, I found that another individual is in the process of filing a lawsuit against Mr. Hawkins and requested that the individual write to Mr. Hawkins directly. It was this other individual in South Carolina, and not me, that helped Mr. Hawkins get himself kicked off. Since Mr. Hawkins has received that email today, I believe that your case against me as an enemy of free speech should be re-examined.
It terms of his accusations against me that you have posted on your blog, I have taken the time to answer them at length and with scientific citations on my website: www.maloneymedical.com. I am also in the process of creating a more tolerable Youtube video for your flock.
Thank you, Reverend Myers, for burning me without trial. It’s nice to know some things never change.
Christopher Maloney, N.D.
http://chrismaloneyisaquack.blogspot.com/
who? I don't know anyone of that name.
We seem to have upset someone. At least unlike others that PZ has upset, he keeps his language somewhat civil.
Dear Dr. Maloney:
I really don't care about the Youtube video, and I really don't care about who launched what lawsuit against whom and got them kicked off what site.
I care about the science. I care about the science behind the medical care. I care about the science behind claims of AGW. I care about the science behind evolution. I care about the science behind cooking. I care about the science period.
Naturopathy does not have science behind it. It is Alternative Medicine, and as Tim Minchin so eloquently put it, Alternative Medicine has been either not proven to work, or proven not to work. Any form of alternative medicine that has been proven to work is called just plain "Medicine".
lordshipmayhem @ #83
RAmen.
I got the same comment on my blog :) Made my day it did. I'm honoured he took the time to post it.
Davidpj #46 wrote:
Alternative medicine practitioners and advocates do not understand -- or appreciate -- the objective nature of the scientific method, and its need to achieve consensus with public evidence. Instead, they think very small, and consider their own personal experience to be the best sort of "practical science." It's all very subjective. The real issue isn't the medicine or therapy itself; it's them, and their right to come to their own conclusions.
Public criticism is, therefore, seen as an attack on their personal experience, and the personal experiences of their clients. It's an attack on their liberty, and an invasion of the safe space they require, to do their healing. So alties don't react like scientists who are encountering just criticism: they react like children who are encountering bullies.
Thank you for your civil reply, but Reverend Meyers' mob continues to attack me. Call off your minions!
Reverend Meyers spoke out of ignorance, having never even looked at my website, www.maloneymedical.com. If he had even taken a passing glance at my treatment page, he might have seen the fact that I practice evidence based medicine.
Evidence based medicine is medicine practiced using the best scientific data available. With every illness I spend hours reading the medical journals, compiling alternatives to conventional drug therapies. It is the only medicine that is scientific.
Most people assume wrongly that conventional medical practices are scientific, but the science behind common medical practices varies widely. For a resource guide on the analyses of non-evidence based practices, readers can check: http://www.shef.ac.uk/scharr/ir/percent.html. A widespread example is the practice of prescribing antibiotics for viral infections, which continues despite a complete lack of scientific support.
Arguably, the whole practice of conventional medicine lacks scientific support, varying extraordinarily from state to state and from region to region. The Dartmouth Atlas of Health Care has spent twenty years documented the "glaring variations in how medical resources are distributed and used in the United States." In the Atlas's most recent report a patient was thirty times more likely to get a stent for hardening of the arteries in some regions of the U.S. than in other regions. Since the Atlas tracks Medicare patients, insurance coverage is not a factor. Patients are defined as comparably ill, so nothing scientific backs that extraordinary variation.
Working within alternative medicine, I deal with a great many foolish notions, but few of them actually kill patients. The Dartmouth Atlas of conventional medicine shows that in regions where patients receive more medical interventions for the same illness they actually die sooner. Getting an unnecessary surgery or drug is more likely to cause a patient damage than taking a vitamin.
Those who argue that alternative medicine is worthless should examine the history of vitamin C and hand washing. Despite the use of limes containing vitamin C to resolve the illness of scurvy in the early 1700's the U.S. was resistant to this weird alternative medicine. As a result, civil war soldiers continued to die of scurvy more than a hundred years after a cure had been found. The original doctor who thought tiny bugs caused disease and advocated hand washing was laughed out of his hospital. To this day the lack of hand washing is the major cause of infectious disease spread within hospitals. Many hospitals have "infectious disease specialists" that chase around after hospital staff to get them to wash their hands.
The assimilation of scientific alternative medical practices into conventional medicine is delayed by the false assumption that a medical expert has expertise outside his specialty. Every month approximately thirty thousand medical journal articles are published. Any expert has limited time to read outside her field. In a recent survey of oncologists 70% believed diet had nothing to do with the development of cancer. But the World Health Organization has had epidemiologists document that the majority of cancers have a dietary component. Despite the evidence, the use of reasonable dietary measures to lower cancer risk remains an alternative medical field.
We are entering an era when the majority of patients are not cured by conventional medication. The success of antibiotics in this past century revolutionized conventional medicine and provided the basis of the modern medical model: a drug will cure you. But we are seeing the community spread of antibiotic resistant bacteria. The discussion centers around MRSA (Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus) but the more deadly VRSA (Vancomycin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus) should be the focus. Vancomycin is the antibiotic of last resort, an old standby so prone to side effects that they stopped using it until they had to bring it back. If you have VRSA, there is nothing conventional medicine can do to save you.
My monitoring of the doubling of VRSA in the hospitals helped push me to pursue alternative medicine. I'm happy to say that we've got dozens of herbs that slow or prevent bacterial growth. Very few of them have widespread resistance because they don't rely on a single chemical intervention like our more recent antibiotic drugs. A number of the effective herbs are widely available as kitchen spices with a long history of safe human use.
Without antibiotics as a mainstay, conventional medicine must fall back on surgical intervention and lifelong drug prescriptions to resolve illness. Much surgical intervention lacks scientific evidence because of the difficulty of creating randomized trials without causing human suffering. As a result, surgical practices vary widely even from surgeon to surgeon within the same hospital. While short term results from surgeries are positive, it is often difficult to tell if the results are long term for patients with chronic complaints. Drug interventions work short term as well, but as treatment continues for decades we have almost no data on the long term results of the interventions. In other words, the two major areas of conventional medical intervention lack several decade long scientific proof of positive effect. We are, in effect, experimenting on the U.S. public without their permission. When the experiment goes wrong, as it did recently with Vioxx and Estrogen replacement, no one questions the basis of prescribing lifelong medications as a health care goal.
It is absolutely true that we lack long term studies for alternative supplements, but we have centuries of data on diet and lifestyle interventions. The World Health Organization has estimated that the provision of sufficient food, clean water and reasonable hygiene has contributed far more to the extension of human life than all other medical interventions combined. A huge epidemiological study in China (The China Study) demonstrated that an animal based diet exponentially increased the risks of cancer in the genetically homogenous Han Chinese. We need to base our health care interventions in the best scientific information available, which means reversing our agricultural subsidies and making it less expensive to eat a healthy diet than one based on subsidized sugar and white bread.
While my field has its share of worthless practices, I am not a quack or an idiot. I am a man of science working within the alternatives that have not yet been absorbed into the mainstream to create alternatives to lifelong drug use.
Call off your minions, Reverend Meyers.
Chris Maloney, newest witch hunt victim
Dr. Maloney, full of baloney, says that those scientific tests for thyroid activity are inadequate, they don't tell you "how much thyroid activity is happening". On an on he drones in his carefully modulated voice, voicing carefully modulated inanities.
These naturopaths are honored in Utah as well.
I can't get health care, and these idiots want insurance companies to pay for this "naturopathic care"; and the news on NPR this morning noted that health care premiums are going up another 40% from their already out-of reach stratosphere! --I'm speechless with anger.
Quacker, I hope you've put more effort into studying medicine than you did into the spelling of PZ's surname (which appears several places on this very page).
For those of you wishing to comment, I note that Wordpress has no "contact us" link on their website, or at least nothing easily visible.
Wordpress is owned by a company called Automattic Inc., which DOES, as it develops, have a contact page on their website:
http://automattic.com/contact/
For snailmail:
Automattic Inc
570 El Camino Real #150-454
Redwood City, CA 94063
And even voicemail: (877) 273-8550
Now, my phellow Pharingulites, remember to be polite. I know you will be firm. Let them know that their Wordpress subsidiary committed an 'error' against a user of their services, which is something they can correct, but please do not accuse them of a horrendous crime against humanity, which is something they cannot correct.
Quackalicious #80 wrote:
If you re-read PZ's post, you will see that his point was that naturopaths should not be recognized as doctors in Maine, because they are not scientifically qualified. Naturopathy is a mixture of some science-based medicine, with a lot of unproven and untested medicine, and a healthy dose of disproven nonsense.
Perhaps. I don't know.
So, did Maloney intentionally misspell PZed's name or was it just incompetence?
Chiropractors aren't necessarily worse than any other physiotherapists, but there are too many who think that they are actual doctors. That's what makes them frauds and woo-masters.
Quaqckalicious #86 wrote:
This is irrelevant. The fact that errors and shortcuts have occurred in mainstream medicine does not mean that the scientific system itself should be jettisoned, and anything goes. Surely you are not arguing that. You seem instead to be arguing that naturopathy shouldn't be criticized for its lack of scientific rigor if there are problems elsewhere. This is like a kid defending the fact that they broke a lamp by saying that their brother broke something, too, just the other day.
No, those are not examples of alternative medicine. Those are examples of science-based medicine which made its case against skepticism by accumulating sufficient evidence.
There's no such thing as "alternative medicine." There's just medicine. If and when you make your case to the scientific community by mustering something beyond making inspired guesses based on insufficient evidence, you will not be vindicating alternative medicine. You will be leaving it behind.
Skepticism is not a "witch hunt."
This is the dumbest thing I've seen written on the intratubes today. And I was on the thread with Michael.
Do you claim aspirin brushing of the teeth as "alternative" medicine too?
aspirin AND brushing of the teeth.
AND
Looks like the good doctor just removed the video before I could see it.
If I catch the flu, I'm blaming PZ.
Yep the video was removed after dr.quack misspelt PZ's name on the comments. But do not fret. Lo and behold the quacking version...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqlg9vDtk8k
Rev. Big Dumb Chimp #94 wrote:
He will, if he can find some authority of the time expressing doubt about it.
When they use the term "alternative medicine," what they seem to mean is "medicine that is unfairly dismissed" -- with the emphasis on the unfairness of the criticism. It's mean.
Again, this is a real failure to understand the importance of skepticism in science. It's as if they're looking at the after-the-fact results and then weighing the value of the criticism, against whether it turned out to be right or not. The method, isn't what's important. What's important is being right in the end, so that everything you did was right, too. And doubt was wrong.
Alties don't do tests to find out the answers. They do tests designed to show they're right. And they think that would mean that those who didn't believe earlier, were wrong: they should have supported them from the beginning. Even with nothing to go by but some preliminary in vitro studies, and a magic hunch. How heroic!
It's the same thing you see in religion, when people puff up the value of having "faith" -- taking an inspired leap into an unsupported conclusion. If you take an inspired leap and turn out to be wrong, then that was just self-seeking. That kind of faith is bad. It's only good when you're actually right, and it can be framed as special sensitivity.
After leaving hits all over, as I'm sure others are doing, I just googled simply "Christopher Maloney" and the search results begin with PZ under "News results for...." on page 1, and miscellaneous entries on page 2.
Playing search algorithms is so cool -- I mean, chicks dig it, right?
Good point
Um, what happened to Hawkins' letter?
The link now leads to the sites main page.
Rev BDC, is forgetting a conjunction considered a typo?
if I did it, yes
Reminds me of a good quote from a recent xkcd strip. "You don't do science to prove you're right. You do science to become right." (emphasis mine)
Christopher Meloni on the other hand...
Dear Prof. Myers,
I think you and your minions miss the point. You still haven’t bothered to look at my website, where I have literally hundreds of medline citations. Did it ever occur to any of you that I practice evidence-based medicine? Has anyone on this comments page even looked at my website or are you simply Myers court of yes people?
And the major issue is that Prof. Myers acted as judge, jury and executioner when it comes to having hundreds of “Myerheads” continue to attack me. You may not believe in God, but you, Prof. Myers, are acting like one. A bad one. Call off the attack. For the rest of you acting like a blind mob, I have proof that I was not responsible for pulling Hawkins off the air, but not a single one of you has contacted me. Great independent scientific thought. Oh, do continue to pretend you care about the truth.
In disgust,
Christopher Maloney, N.D.
The zombie hordes are out to get you, Baloney. Stock up on explosives. Peezed already got his voodoo stockpile out of the attic, I bet.
Well this would seem like a good place to post it.
Therefore, you are a "real" doc...
I read and obey:
dkew politics
but it looks like modifications will be in order when more facts are known.
OT - I'm happy to see proper homage to Diana Rigg.
" the most famous of garlic eaters, the French,
EXCUSE ME? The Italians are the most famous of garlic eaters, thankouverymuch."
lol!
Not according to the French!
I've seen your website....no , you don't practice evidence-based medicine;you are not licensed or qualified to practice much of the available modalities that have actual clinical evidence behind them. What you do is cherry pick data and "practice" what you are not legally restricted from doing;there's a difference.Any pissant study with 6 subjects that agrees with your view is touted as evidence even without any corroborative ( or even sometimes clinically relevant) studies to back many of your claims.This approach is not evidence-based and to continue to make this claim makes you a liar or extremely thick.
"Chris Maloney, newest witch hunt victim"
What.a.complete.asshole.
The Quack took his video off YouTube. I guess the Quack couldn't hack it.
Twittered. Both my followers are now aware.
Wow 'doc', (make that 'duck'), are you learning-disabled, or just extraordinarily thickheaded?
First off, for one who complains (incorrectly, as it turns out) that other people haven't read your site, you sure show an astonishing lack of knowledge about the site you're complaining on.! Sycophants we aren't, and people are always quite ready to speak up if they disagree with PZ. 'Myerheads', huh? Is that really the best you can do? I've got to say, that's pretty weak in light of the evidence before us, isn't it?.
Just what exactly has PZ told his 'minions' to do? What was it again? Oh yes, here we are:
So.. Just where exactly does he order anyone to send you emails, call you on the phone, visit your website, or have anything to do with you in any way? Actually, to me it appears that the people who have contacted you are all people doing the opposite of what PZ *suggested*, which was to 'tell the world', not talk to you. Clear evidence that the people contacting you AREN'T PZ's minions, or just maybe they'd be doing what he suggested they do, rather than its opposite. But don't let mere evidence get in the way of your whining, no sir!
Really, how obtuse do you have to be to NOT see that PZ didn't make even the slightest suggestion that people contact you? Poor, persecuted you!
And 'Executioner', huh? I do not think that word means what you think it means.
Me, I think you're guilty of hyperbole, hypocrisy, woo, practicing medicine without a license to do so, and flat-out lying. Every bit of evidence you have provided us only makes those conclusions stronger. Maybe you'd be wise to shut up and go away before you become known worldwide as the snake-oil salesman you are?
@Baloney
If you're talking about hand washing, then from what I can recall, Semmelweis was treated with ridicule despite having carefully tracked and analyzed the efficacy of hand washing in reducing puerperal fever. While you have the ridicule down, there's something... ah yes. "Carefully tracked."
Remember, genius gets laughed at (sometimes), but so too does Bozo.
Mmmmm, garlic...
Wait, what were we talking about?
Regardless how you feel about Maloney, do not indict an entire profession based on your judgements around an individual. If I were to apply this sam logic I could say that M.D.s are unethical and on the take from big pharma based on this: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123672510903888207.html
@ 119,
This not about how I feel about Mr Maloney, the evidence suggests that he might be endangering his clients by giving dubious, dangerous, or wrong medical advice while not being trained to do so.
And what is the "entire profession" you speak of, since Mr Maloney seems to be practising some sort of "best of quack" approach, including various derivatives of quack to optimise profits ?
@119
My opinion regarding the quack du jour is a direct result of the conclusion, long ago reached, that naturopathy is synonymous with snake-oil.
Why lambaste the Canadian Association of Naturopathic (SHUDDER) Doctors? I take solace in their moniker shortening to CAND or candy... but I digress.
They push homeopathy as efficacious AND scientific, when it is neither. Diluting something that much, despite some kind of 'spectacles, testicles, wallet & watch' being performed over it, will reduce the contents to water, only leaving sugar pills.
To add the concept of 'water memory' only magnifies the hornswoggling.
Homeopathy may have seemed sensible in the context of when it was dreamt up, but we've learned much since that leaves it in the dust.
The article you linked to is prolly verrrry familiar to many here. It reveals a man of dubious character gaming a noble framework whilst besmirching it and the real profession utilizing it.
This is "professional" science?
I think you'll agree, Daffy, that we are dethpicable ?...
Dear Myer's minions:
Here are the facts about you. You are a mob. When Myer's told you to attack, you immediately did. When Myers told you to stop, you stopped.
As with any mob, this comment page is only the first layer. This is where you all discuss "getting him" as if it was something like duck hunting. Myers promotes this lighthearted view, attacking people is "fun."
The second layer of any mob are those who go after me personally, but in a somewhat ethical way. They flood my email, trash my youtube, and generally throw verbal stones.
But there is a third layer to any mob, a group determined to really "hurt" me. The third layer isn't satisfied with online burning. They have kerosene and they've googled where I live.
I think we all know what happens when unstable people get whipped into a frenzy. The headlines are full of it.
I want each one of you to take personal responsibility if I become the next headline. I have written to PZ Myers personally about one individual who is less threatening but lives here in my hometown, but he has neither responded nor called this person off.
It is all fun and games until the duck actually burns. If that happens, know that you helped light the fire.
Grow a spine.
I get weekly death threats and daily threats of harm from cranks, creationists, crackpots, astrologers, and religious loons. Browse around the web and you can find legions of people expressing their hatred for me. You get a couple of days of people criticizing your quackery, and you fall down blubbering and whining about your martyrdom.
Oh, and grow a brain and a sense of ethics, too. You're a quack. You hurt people with your snakeoil.
Dear Deluded "Doctor",
In other words, it was brought to our attention that a deluded wackaloon who makes his living preying on the gullible had shut down a blog for the sin of pointing out that the deluded wackaloon is a deluded wackaloon. So we told the deluded wackaloon that he was an evil deluded wackaloon. Then further evidence revealed that while the first deluded wackaloon bragged about having the critic silenced, he wasn't the deluded wackaloon who caused the silencing. So we went after the other deluded wackaloon who was the real culprit.
Apparently in deluded wackaloon world one shouldn't punish evil and, what's more, when given new evidence, one shouldn't act on this new evidence. No wonder the "doctor" is confused and angry that normal people don't following the deluded wackaloon scenario.
.
Yeah, christians go out and kill people.You were saying ?
Sounds like we need to call a waaaaaaambulance for the baby of a qvack, qwack, quack.
Fuck off, deluded wackaloon. If you think your life, limb or property are in danger then call the police. The Augusta Police's phone number is 626-2370. While you deserve to be ridiculed and shamed for your inexcusable plundering of the incredulous, you don't deserve bodily harm. Nobody here, including PZ Myers, has called for you to be harmed. So quit playing martyr. Nobody's buying it.
Dr(?). Maloney-
Your responding to this nonsense is feeding into it all. Michael is generally a respectful young man. He and I are generally on opposite sides of any debate- but he is always respectful of me. Even though you may not have been the one to cause the noise which resulted in his blog getting shut down, you have certainly become just as guilty by responding to any of this. Anyone in the eye of the public is under constant scrutiny. You cannot please everyone. Your field of "medicine" is respected by many, and there are just as many who question it. You knew that going into it. If you didn't than you are the ignorant one in all of this. You really should stop feeding into this, and let your questioners do their whining. Reading all of this was a good waste of my morning. But It certainly provided plenty of laughs. I am sure it has also given scienceblogs a huge boost in their memberships.
To everyone- seriously?? Do you all have nothing better to do?? I realize that I am included in this, but I am sure that most of the people who have commented here are students, like Michael and myself, and there is PLENTY of studying or papers to write.
Time to let this one go people. Micheal will go on writing- WordPress will not go out of business- And Dr (?). Maloney will not lose any of his patients.
Seriously, your concern is noted and reject. Now, fuck off like a good little concern troll.
lol it was mostly directed at the so-called dr-
I'm sorry that exposing dangerous woo to the light of day is a waste of time. I'm even more sorry that you are a concern troll trying to stick up for someone who can kill people with his delusions. Lastly I'm extremely sorry to have to tell you to eat shit and bark at the moon.
how was that sticking up for him? I was telling him to grow up. and that Michael is a good guy- not one to be putting down with his meaningless posts
Your comment "Michael...and I are generally on opposite sides of any debate" led me to believe that since Michael was anti-Maloney you were pro-Maloney. I apologize for misunderstanding your sloppy writing.
haha yea- I just write how I think- That comment was supposed to show that Even though Michael and I don't always agree he is always respectful- and that the "dr" was out of line-
If you had really paid attention to the rest though you would have seen that I repeatedly questioned his line of "medicine"
I've just reread your post #128. Would you please point out where exactly you did "repeatedly question his line of 'medicine'" because I'm not seeing it.
Doctor of Quackery @ 122:
Please. Take responsibility for yourself, Q.D. You're being criticised and rightly so. You peddle dangerous nonsense and you're nothing more than a con-man. Don't you have work conning to do?
Seriously @ 134:
Scrolls back to Seriously @ 128:
I wouldn't call scare quotes questioning his line of medicine quackery, let alone repeatedly.
Which reminds me of an old saying.
Never, ever, ever pet a burning duck.
John Adams daughter died of breast cancer and there's a good description of the progress of the disease in the correspondence between John and Abigail. - a_ray_in_dilbert_space
There's a dreadful first-person account of early 19th century treatment for cancer - a mastectomy without anaesthetic other than a little alcohol - by the playwright Fanny Burney. She survived the operation for 29 years - it's impossible to be certain it really was cancer. But perhaps "Dr" Baloney would consider both modern diagnostic tools and effective anaesthetics to be unnatural abominations, likely to do more harm than good.
I think it is important for those advocating attacking others to realize that a very small proportion of their readers are not well balanced. In a world where angry people are looking for someone to blame, encouraging them is a bad idea. Here is Russell Brand replying to the death threats he received simply for appearing on a television show. He is a very crude and very funny man. But no one told anyone to attack him, and my attacks began when Myers listed me as a target and Dr. Novella confirmed that I was a threat to be dealt with harshly. To be fair, none of my personal emails have been quite as good as Brand’s, but it gives a sense of the sort of “reasoned discourse” I’ve received over the last few days since Myers falsely accused me (check the site, Hawkins falsely accused me to Myers, and Myers posted it as the truth.) Warning to those who don’t like vulgarity and profanity, this video (and my junk email box) are full of both.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhSbaIq3GGY
Sorry, you are the unhinged on, lacking the basic equipment to be a man. A pair of cojones. Get a clue Quack. You are a loser. You are a con man. You are a purveyor of ignorance and a meister of woo. Nobody to listen to, since you lack the basic equipment called rationality. So, Shut the fuck up. Nobody is listening to your lies.
To this end, and to counter the whinging and hand-wringing of the benighted complaining over being trolled, I think PZ should make a video reading a few choice selections from his copious hate-mail aloud, a la the Dawkins video.
Somehow I suspect that both the volume and tone of the emails PZ receives is far worse.
I think it is important for those advocating attacking others to realize that a very small proportion of their readers are not well balanced.
funny, Cris, haven't you noticed yet that nobody is helping you nail yourself to a cross?
How DO you get that last nail in, btw?
I've got to say this really highlight's this quack's delusion of grandeur. All he can do is talk about how he is persecuted - neglecting the issues at hand. Is PZ or anyone here advocating violence? No. Yet he keeps going on and on about it as if people here are causing it.
He's suffering from "I am misunderstood, therefore, I am great" disorder.